going in and out of the country. if that were to happen, big if. then the u.s. military, who are there, they will work to defense any u.s. americans who are there and to keep the airport open so they can get the americans out safely. also, though, it's important to point out, you know, there were about 1,000, less than 1,000 u.s. troops who were already there. only about a1,000, not really full 1,000 have made their way in. that total of 5,000. they are not there yet. >> yeah. >> the current plach is according to defense officials is to continue to flow those people in. but this is all happening so in quickly, you have to wonder in the next 48, 72 hours f they are not in there, are they going to have time to get all of them in. >> a looking at pictures, with helicopter evacuations from the green zoneli to the airport, th are looking to get this place cleared out faster than it would probably take those extra troops

to get in there. let's reset. it is sunday, august 15th.h. i'm ali velshi. as you can see, we are following breaking news out of afghanistan where the taliban is on the brink of taking over the entire country. the group is closing in on the capital city of kabul. thisf map just in the last six hours is out of date. the dark orange areas are areas now controlled by taliban.ll they are closing in on the last major city they do not control, that is kabul. after capturing a series of cities all over the country amid the u.s. withdrawal of troops. let's look live at kabul right now. minutes ago we saw smoke in the air. but there are a series of helicopters movinge between th green zonemo that houses embasso and the airplane. those areas and the road between them are still under american control. and there is american air spoerpt, whichri you will see i

terms of blackhawk helicopters. there are chinook helicopters evacuating americans right inno. bagram airbase north of the city is now in the hands of the taliban,n according to defense officials. they are also emptying out the parwan prison there, which has an estimated 5,000 to 7,000 prisoners including some hardened talibanud and al qaeda fighters. afghanistan interior minister -- there is one of those helicopters right there. that's a transport. power in the afghan government will be handed over temporarily to a third party. don't know who that third party is yet. nbc news reports the u.s. embassy in kabul will be closed once all have been transferred out. that is happeningll right now. we are also learning there have been intense negotiations with the talibannt for the safe passe out of taliban. those negotiations appear to be happening a the presidential palace in kabul where taliban negotiators are present.

the taliban has negotiators inside the presidential palace right now. the u.s. troop withdrawal emboldened the taliban to seize cities in recent days. this morning, the taliban seized jalalabad. yesterday, they captured mazz ari -- mar -- mazz ar i sharif. we are about to hear from the secretary of state of the united states who is going to formalize some of what we are hearing. andat that is that they are evacuating kabul, that they have asked the taliban not to enter the city until such time that the americans are out. and that is expected within a

72-hour deadline from several hours ago. what we don't know, though, is this conversation about the interiorth minister in afghanisn saying that power will be handed to a third party. they are basically saying, we are giving up, we are out of this place, give us safe passage out and somehow we will have a bloodless transfer of authority. this has largely been a bloodless takeover. i am showing you helicopters. these are providing security, overflying the area. what dong we understand this to be. do you know anythinganis about this third party might be? >> htno, we don't know what thi third party is. it seems unusual there would be a third party involved if the taliban is essentially taking over the whole country. they have essentiallyhe taken or the country. it is unlikely they would even want to temporarily hand over power to anybody else when they see themselves as the new legitimate rulers of the

country. but even if there is a third party involved, it is going to be temporary. the country isg back in the has of the taliban. and h within the next 72 hours, once they have spoken to the transitional government that's on its way out, they will be calling all the shots in that country. they will be talking to foreign powers.ngig they will be very happy to see the back of all u.s. troops from afghanistan. and it is going to be a place that looked very much like it did 20 years ago. the taliban will be in full control of the country. most of the social reforms in that country will be rolled back. and it's going to have a very archaic system of governance there, a very strict muslim country, muslim government in that country. and quite frankly, this had been building up. been to afghanistan many n times. without the u.s. support,

without nato's support there, you could see this day coming. the afghan troops were simply not well enough equipped to deal with the taliban on their own. they didn't have that battlefield experience. they weren't motivated like the taliban. they weren't organized like the taliban. and now that all the foreign troops are leaving that country, it seemed pretty obvious that the taliban would take that place over without much of a fight. and that's what's happened. the question is, is how quickly will that happen, just in the 72 hours n the next three days, will wext see a total transanything that country? that's more likely it will i happen. as it happens, you are also seeing a mass exodus from that country. people who over the last two decades had hoped for a brighter future for themselves, for their children who thoughts, they had seen the end of that very harsh

taliban rule are now escaping, pouring across the border here, into iran, leaving everything they have in that country behind, trying to desperately leave with their families w their children, their wives, to eek out some sort of a very difficult existence here in iran but something that's preferable to what they would face in afghanistan. >> stay close. want to keep coming back to you for analysis of what we are watching on the left side of the screen, the developments of what seems to be the imminent fall of kabul. you are seeing a lot of helicopter activity over that city. there are helicopters evacuating people from the green zone in the american embassy to the airplane.o joining me now, andrea mitchell, who did, report this earlier. i think now we have it officially from the state department, andrea, that the u.s. embassy is closing and being evacuated? >> the physical embassy is going toss close. but what we are also reporting is that the people from the embassy -- you are seeing the helicopters -- are moving to the

airport. and it would be impossible to get all of them out. i mean, they are moving people out asre quickly as they can. they have got 5,000 troops as you know, a total of 5,000 troops that have flowed in to take this as safe a passage as possible. but at some point, the -- they will be getting them out of the airport as quickly as they can by fixed-wing aircraft. but in terms of this shuttling by helicopter. you are seeing the chinooks, what is happening over kabul in real time. people are being brought out. there were about 1,400 people in the embassy. that's the best estimate that we have.es for security reasons they are not tellingr us everything tha was going on at kabul embassy. but there were about 1,400 people still remaining after that initial ordered departure. butep starting to dwindle down.

as prichks -- provincial capital after provincial capital fell, they were surprised with how rapidly they were turning things over to the taliban. giving up weapons, heavy equipment. they have got humvees, they have got helicopters. they have got all kinds of weaponry. they are now a very well armed force. even though there are 300,000 afghan forces, military, that had billions of dollars of training and equipment over the years, they have basically collapsed andal there is no lonr any assurance that kabul could bera defended. as you know and you have said previously, there have been attacksth inside the green zonen kabul.

so there have been -- there is plenty of evidence h that the afghan capital was pell penetrated by terrorists who were supporting the taliban up until now. now, as we speak, secretary blinken has been on meet the press, speaking on meet the press and iss, confirming that e physical embassy is being closed. there will be a skeletal force of diplomats remaining at the airport where they r believe th they cane be protected. we have to see whether that actually takes place. but right now, it is a fallback position to recreate some kind of diplomatic presence. there are also trying to get oun some of the remaining people who have those siv visas a very controversial program. there was a lot of red tape in the way congress legit lated it. a number of weeks ago they passed amendments to try to cut some of the red tape for our afghan translators, for those who worked with us militarily, and also to expand in a in recent weeks.

the state department announced trying to expand it to include some of the people from afghan civil society, some of the women's leaders, educators and human rights activists who worked closely with americans and certainly have targets on their backs. that was supposed to be expanded beyond the people who just worked with our military but it remains to be seen whether any of those people could actually get out givenco how rapidly thi is taking place. there are women throughout the country texting and sending videos as places have fallen. i saw a video friday night that was absolutely heart breaking of the taliban. i had not personally managed to authenticate it, but it has been authenticated by activists i know who are on the ground and heree in the u.s. that is vide of a taliban fighter -- taliban fighters coming into a town, a village, going door to door and taking girl children, taking

little girls, out of the arms of their mothers. and i saw one video that is just horrifying. and that is what has been feared all along. but so far, at least, we know that the taliban is talking to american diplomats and others from around the world, the united nations, in doe hare, in qatar. and they have ban talking to afghan officials as you have been reporting from within the presidential palace in kabul. they have been trying to at least negotiate with some assurance that this evacuation of americans, american personnel will be safe. and that is the top priority right now. it is a terrible reality but right now the administration is trying to get the americans out first. >> was there another wayt out this? just in the way that afghan government was not widely supported byid its own people, this war has not been widely supported by americans for a long time.

what were the alternatives? >> atat different stage there i may have been other alternatives. certainly when we went into afghanistan after 9/11 this war wasta supported. going after the base from which al qaeda hadse attacked america. so it had a lot of support initially. and over 20 years, it has ebbed and flow, as has the americans' troop strength. president obama obama reluctantly sent forces back in on the advice of his military. the one dissenter in the top circles of our government in the national security team was then vice president joe biden. he has been consistent thinking this was a failed war and something we should not keep doing now that osama bin laden ten years ago was captured, killed in that fight. and al qaeda, after that, essentially decimated. so once the terror threat that

was the original mission was over -- m that has been the whi house rationale and they feel -- they say that their hands were tied by donald trump's decision to get out on may 1st, that -- as secretary blinken is telling meet b the press today, that on may 2nd, we would have been embroiled in this brutal civil war and having to send thousands andha thousands of troops back in order to stop the taliban because they had said that they would startth fighting the day after the may 1st withdrawal that had been agreed to by the previous administration. whether that is true or not, whether we could have kept 2,500 troops and then added more and still stabilized the country, i don't think anyone will ever know forhe sure. but that is going to be the debate that you are already seeing now. at this hour, i should point out nancy pelosi has arranged a briefing for all members of theh house, bipartisan. it's an unclassified briefing. there was supposed to be a

classified briefing later in the week.ek but that is now taking place. congress members are being informed of the latest and of the plans in an unclassified setting. we are waiting to hear what is happening inside the presidential palace. >> yeah. >> the expectation is that president ghani, who has been very, very unpopular, even with american officials who feel he has not performed well and needs to make more concessions -- we were told by people from there during a briefing just on thursday that the situation on the ground had deteriorated so rapidly that president ghani was going to have to make more concessions to the taliban in doha in those diplomatic talks. so there was the expectation that there was going to be to have to be some sort of a stepping down of ghani and some sort of a transitional government even a couple of days ago. but nobody anticipated that this reality would take place so quickly. >> andrea, it is amazing to watch what we are watching right

now, the evacuation of -- >> i know. >> ikabul, by not just america, but it may be the afghan government itself. andrea, thank you. i will keep checking in with you as these matters develop over the course of the hour. joining me now, vivian salama, a former colleague and now with the "wall street journal." good morning. what a thing we are watching in kabul. you have a lot of knowledge how this unfolded over the years. what's going flew your mind right now? >> it is extraordinary. i think a lot of us who spent time in these places, including afghanistan and pakistan, where i lived -- it is something we all kinds of geft was inevitable at some point when the u.s. left. but i think over the past 20 years so many journalists, academics whona look at this ha real expected that the u.s. would invest time more in

strategy. there is this aversion here in the u.s. in recent years about this concept of nation building, administrations constandly say we are not going to places to nation build. butac to an extent there has toe some sort of strategy as far as creating institutions when you go into a country like afghanistan that had been decimated by the taliban andn then the u.s.ma went in with na allies post 9/11.t it was seen very much as a legitimate effort to root out al qaeda from the mountains of afghanistan. but over the course of the years thathe followed, there wasn't reallyn' a clear path as far as how we structure institutions and get afghanistan on its feeth there was a lot of focus on schools, empowering women, a lot of good things that came out of the u.s. presenceme over the la 20 tyears. but a lot of academics now looking back and saying, well, that nation building, which is seenis as such a bad word is no such a bad w thing when you are going into a country like afghanistan. you neednt institutions.

you need to have some sort of a framework to move forward. folks really just disappointed in in the way that that didn't happen. as you heard andrea saying, president biden has been consistent, even in the days of the obama administration when president obama was trying to get outt and ended up sending more troops in when the situation began to deteriorate. but d even then vice president biden kept on telling him he doesn't thinkin it's a good ide to stay in achg. he doesn't see an end game there. he was consistent throughout.me so you hear lawmakers today, ben sass sent out a statement calling it the trump/biden doctrine of withdrawal from afghanistan.wi an interesting way to characterize it.ng inte this way they were in sync where president biden, now in office said listen, the u.s. is

essentially providing life spoet for the afghan pill terry and government. we have problems at home with the economyt and covid and infrastructure and ay million other thing. and that's where he thinks our focus should be, 20 years later. as andrea was saying, we have accomplished the mission of getting bin laden out and al qaeda out. the pictures is raising questions about the veg of the biden administration and of the last 20 years of how u.s. failures equated. it is not just the u.s., obviously allies were involved, too, but how that's failures added up to this moment. want to go to kabul where richard engle is standing by. he has been reporting on the activity there allpo day. richard, what is the situation in kabul? >> well, we are still seeing the evacuation. we are hearing now more solid ground that it is going to take three days, and that the u.s.

embassy is going to close after that.e i wouldn't be surprised, looking at the pace, if it is actually wrapped up before three days. that might be an outside estimate because we have been hearing and seeing the helicopters going all day long. here in kabul, i think it's fair to say that the situation -- that the city has collapsed. there is no real security on the streets anymore. we are starting to see signs of looting. i just got back. we were walking around an area that iwa reported on many times before. we used to go to this one salon, beauty salon because it was a good place to interview women and talk about women in society and their hopes. obviously, that's very different under the taliban. out in front of the shop, there were these large picture windows with l posters of women with thr hair done and makeup on. those posters have all been torn down or painted over. as we were walking around, people were angry, you could tell.

blank looks on their faces, looking hard at us. there is increased reports of people pretending to be the taliban, going up, taking weapons off of police officers. more reports of police officers dropping their uniforms, putting on traditional dress. so this city is bracing culturally and physically for a taliban ptackover. and security has really collapsed. >> richard -- >>d. it is a city that could be taken now. it's just we are wait forth the americansre to leave doctor the are wait informing the americans to leave and how this transfer isve going to happen. >> the surpriseng here is not tt it's the happening, as much as how fast it is happening. would youis agree with that? >>th no. everyone keeps saying that. i have been listening all day. oh my god, we are shocked at how fast -- i am not shocked at all. last time i was here i was looking at the calendar and figuring out nowen with covid a travel when you are going to have to come back w and how lon you have to isolate. theu covid makes you have to pt

ahead a little bit on traveling. i thought kabul was going to fall right around now. that was a gut instinct. i think lots of people i spoke toop believe that. last time i was here i spoke to hafg government officials, afghanistan military officials.f it was well-known security services were collapsing a e month, two months, three months ago. so this feigned surprise -- maybe it is genuine surprise, but if it is, i don't understand what it's based on. it was clear it was going to come to this when you started to see the taliban take territory without having to fight months ago. so, no, i am not at all surprised by the speed. these things snowball. once you have enough momentum and have enough weapons nobody isve going to stand up to you. >> right. >> and nobody did. >> richard, you and i talked last about the visas that we were trying to get to people who had t assists u.s. troops and americans in afghanistan, many of themic struggled to get to kabul, to get to the embassy, to get their visa. >> they don't have them. and those people are -- oh those

people are in serious, serious trouble. they are now havings, to operat in secretg because as of tomorrow, the next day, three days from now, as soon as this embassy evacuation is complete, or sooner, the taliban are going to control the city through the form of an interim government. that means they are going to control the airports, or part of the airport, or access to the airport. it means they are going to control borders. they already control the border point. you have to explain to the taliban who you are, why you wanted to travel. all of these people who haven't left are now going to have to process their visas under the taliban and explain, what, that they were working for the americans? i was in touch by a messenger just a few minutes ago with a translator. this is ait translator who has been waiting for four years to get his visa. we have spoken to hips

commanding officer, who vouches for him. he has reams of paperwork that show he went on mission after mission as translator. he's still here. he's hiding inible kachlt it is hard to tell emotion over a text, but he was pleading and saying that his family and he are going to die unless something happens. no, they are not getting out. and it's not easy to do. e we went to a processing center today, a private kind of pop-up office where there was two people with a computer in front of them. and the office was packed with afghans coming in who were trying to navigate their way through this u.s. state department's website. all that they need to provide is in english. they need to be in multiple copies. a lot of the people coming in certainly didn't speak english. it is not just translators. you have security guards, you have yocleaners. not all of them speak english

and can navigate their way through a website. the idea that all the translators and all the people who worked for us are getting out or are in process of getting out, just is not the case. >> richard, we will let you get back to the very, very important reporting you are doing out of kabul today. stay close. if you have any news for us wave in front of the camera and we will bring you back. richard engle is in afghanistan as we are watching the evacuation of the u.s. embassy and other things going on there. joining me now, roger krishnamoorthi of illinois. you had been scheduled to talk with me on other matters, but thiser seems to be the most crucial matter. have you gotten the information you need about what's going on in afghanistan right now, in this rapidly changing situation? >> no, i haven't. it is a deeply disturbing disaster. i think i and probably some of mypr colleagues are chiding ourselves about drinking the cool aid asve to the effectivens

of t the afghan government and s military forces. of course we underestimated the taliban. and i think thatli at this poin we have to just call a spade a spade and be realistic about what's happening on the ground. i personally think we have to do everything in our power to get those people out of there that helped us. and i think that if they stay back, they will be killed by the taliban. >> i want to play for you secretary of state antony blinken who was just on meet tht press. >> afghans who worked for the embassy, worked for ourr military, we have a massive effort under way to bring afghans at risk out of the country if r that's what they s desire. ands ultimately, it's up to th afghans themselves, it is up to the afghanes government, it is to the taliban to decide the way forward for the country, including kabul. >> that's a loaded statement. it's up to the afghans themselves, up to the taliban andth the afghan government dece

the way forward fornm kabul. doesn't seem like it is a whole bunch of equal parties negotiating at the moment. the taliban has kabul circled and has taken other places. certainly it appears that the american negotiator said to the taliban we need 72 hours to clear t out. don't come in the city, don't do anything. it does look like the taliban is not looking to get into a shooting war with american soldiers. so they may give them the 72 hours. that seems to be the inevitable outcome. >> i wouldn't put anything past the taliban at this point. they are a bunch of men dashs killers. on one hand their spokespeople say they are going to respect the safe passage of any number of people out of kabul. they are going to respect women's rights, they are going to make sure no one goes hard. . on the other hand, the reporting from folks like yourselves and

others on the ground paint a very different picture. at this point, we have to make it very clear that we are going to evacuate ourth people out of there. we are going to take those who helped us out of there. and if they want any aid, which they desperately want, from countries like the u.s. or any of our partners, here are the conditions that underlie that aid. as for the afghan government, unfortunately, they are incompetent and corrupt. they are going to be looking out for themselves. i doubt they are going to be looking out for their people. and i think that at this point we have to just assume the worst. >> what do we do -- the taliban -- there is not much different about the taliban today than there was in the '90s except for the fact that other governments are actually talking to them and they are talking to other governments. they have been in china. they are talking to the iranians. they are negotiating ---er in in doha, - qatar, right now, negotiating with the americans. how do we move forward on this? the last time we were dealing with the taliban they were an

insurgent force. as you said, men dashs liars. now they will be the government afghanistan. how do we process this? do we end up dealing with them? >> i think that we -- we might. but i think that it is going to be based on conditions. they are going to ask for aid. they are not going to necessarily get this monetary aid fromth pakistan, china, or russia. they are going to look for humanitarian aid also from the west. and that's where we have to lay out our conditions for exactly what is going to be required in order to receive this aid. one thing i would say that's very disturbing is that, you know, under the accords, there was supposed to be an active negotiation taking place in doha by the taliban and afghanistan government. of course, the taliban completely stalled any movement on the negotiations as they were changing the facts on the ground.

so now we only have literally hours, days, maybe a week to speed up and get to something that's actually viable. but at this point, we have to just assume that you don't trust anything that the taliban says. you have to seeys the way that they act. >> congressman, please keep us posted on what you learn. thank you for being with us this morning. this is a remarkable unfolding story.ol congressman roger krishnamoorthi of illinois is on the house intelligence committee. joining me now, matt rosenberg who covers national security who wasco expelled fro afghanistan in 2014 not when the taliban was in charge of the place. matt, what's your sense of what is happening right now? >> you can see from the pictures the country hasro fall tony the taliban. i am looking at pictures out of kabul stunned. i am hearing a lot from various politicians. the congressman you just had on

saying he drank the cool aid sums it up just about right. for years now -- i spent six years in and out ofpe that country,ut for years, every bitf available evidence showed what the u.s. government was doing was not working that what we had built was run by former war lords, by corrupt politicians. the corruption went from the uniformed police officers on th street who were seen by most afghans as little better than thieve asks drugbe dealers all e way to the top of the government. these filled our newspapers and our television reports.ed for the u.s. government now to say we are so surprised is just -- i don't know where to start withst that. but it's clear there was no real functioning exit plan that there appear to be hundreds of ed thousands, tens of thousands of afghans who probably are in danger, need a way out and don't have one. >> matt, there are a lot of people who say 20 years, and all the money that was spent, $40

billion by the u.s. government, nothing was improved. is that true? or t were there legitimate attempts and successes in building civil society? afghanistan. >> look, the place changed dramatically. i won't say nothing improved. there was tens of thousands who is really did try. but what they were building was something that was paper thin. you know, in kabul, to other cities, you had a world where there were media companies, women were on television, in the news, on tv shows. there were professions developing, sports teams. in the end, the structure that holds that up, the government, security forces, weren't there. in many areas, even ten, 15 years ago when the taliban was coming back up, when the taliban would take over a rural district they set up a court, a rural district and they ran it cleanly and it wasn't open bribery.

that made a difference to many afghans. over the years, afghans and the americans were seen as an occupying force. september 11th was distant for many afghans. many didn't know about it. if you don't know why we are there, then all you see is the americans and foreigners for more than a decade running around in armored vehicles and then thatre afghan army they but running around -- it creates realou issues. >> are the taliban -- how are they viewed by all of these people? we are watching the fact they came into some of the cities without firing a bullet. we have even seen quotes from people -- one never to knows when you see the quotes saying they are lesste lawless than th afghan government. is that true or are they seen as liberators. >> they are seen as liberators in some quarters. not all quarters.

and in a conservative afghan village, yes, they are less lawless. i think many outside the country would see their lack of respect for human rights, women's rights is ari different kind of lawlessness. you would be fair to say that at well. one of the reasons they are walking in -- you have to remember, the people who are surrendering to the taliban, the military t officers, government officials are people who are men, they will be probably given safety. women, and the lesser classes are not the ones running the surrender. i would say the people surrendering will be fine. others will not. >> what happens next? congressman krishnamoorthi was making the point it is still a failed country except that it was at least getting western aid until now. now there is actually going to be a taliban government. how do you see this moving going forward?

is the taliban government going to be recognized by people? are they going to be asking the west foro help? they do emirically hate the west. >> i imagine there is a world that says the taliban came in, they enact laws that most people don't like but they can live with, and they get aid. there is also a scenario where they have a campaign of retribution and horror. right now, i honestly don't. we will know in coming weeks and monthsmi clearly. >> matt thank you for your time this morning. it is a hard thing to make sense of. mattse rosenberg is a reporter covering national security. i want to go to alley arousy.

you are right next to afghanistan. this is going to be a taliban -- i don't know what to call it, a government c administration, th are not good at governing traditionally. but if they come back after 20 years of an attempt to keep them out the world is going to have to in some fashion either recognize them or deal with them. what does that evenal look like? >> that's right. well, i mean that all remains to be seen but i don't think even though idea logically they are the same people, they will probably enforce the same sharia laws in afghanistan. women's rights will go out of the window altogether. they will still remain that same taliban. but they are more diplomatically savvy over the last 20 years. they have realized that they need to reach out through at least regional governments for some sort of the support, for some degree of legitimacy. they will look for that in places like iran, russia, like

china n doha where they have delegations negotiating with world powers including the united states. so it will probably be the same taliban as it was in the '90s, a very harsh, repressive regime, but one that's learned how to deal with foreign nations, especially ones that border them, in order to be able to get money, to be able to trade certain things, and to be able to support the people that support them. so this is a whole new era we are entering. it is going to be a very harsh taliban. but it is going to be a talibans that much more savvy to what world powers think of them and how they need to navigate their way around these situations. i have lost you on my ifb. i am going to cut it off there and o hopefully we will get the soundll back in a second. >> we will fix it up. live from tehran. it is relevant to understand that iran is on the western

border of afghanistan, the former soviet countries of central asia are the northern border of afghanistan. china borders afghanistan for 72 miles in the far eastern part of the country. and pakistan is generally speaking most of the rests and the east and south this country. afghanistan has historically been something that world powers fought over. the webritish, the russians, everybody wants a piece of afghanistan because it is one of those you can't get there from hereth without going through afghanistan. it has been fought for for or generations. no one has successfully governed or held afghanistan. joining me now is california democratic congressman pete aguilar. congressman aguilar, we have a serious matterui to discuss domestically about january 6th and the efforts to overthrow this government. but we are displaced by the fact that an actual government successfully has been overthrown. we are watching it livet on television right now.

whether you agreed with the war in afghanistan or not, there were a lot of american lives lost there, a lot of american dollars spent there. and todayar it looks like it wa for nothing. >> yeah, that's true. and i think it's deeply troublingpl for all of us to de real time. you know, the -- and our hearts continue to go out for the afghan population, with a specialat focus clearly on helpg those navigate safe passage with the special immigrant visas who have been helpful to us and getting them out of harm's way. we owe that to them and their family. to dpt them out of the way. that's something we need t to f and resolve as well as to ensure passage of diplomats and their family members, most of which have been evacuated to this

point. it is deeply troubling to see this in realde time. >> what role do you believe congress has and american government at this point in nt time. in 72 hours or less the american embassy will be closed. the americans told taliban stay out of kabul until her gone, which tacitly means you are coming in after we are gone. what happens? >> i know the secretary of state is planning to brief a bipartisan group of members of congress later this morning, here short lesion actually.he so we will continue to have these conferrings about what our role is moving forward. the house foreign affairs committee, you know, will dig in and ask these questions as well as well as the appropriations committee, when it comes to -- as my colleague, mr. krishnamoorthi mentioned, future aid as well. those will be the discussions we will have in the near term here.

but clearly, the focus is on safeus passage for those folks o are in the country and need it. and so to the extent that we can help with that is something we should be focused on here in the short-term. >> would you be supportive of -- the president announced more troops going into afghanistan to help with the exodus of people who are leaving that country.th at some point the embassy staff and all americans who want to get out of afghanistan will be out of there probably within the next 72 hours. richard engle reporting it might be faster than that because he is watch you go all of these chinook helicopters going t bac and forth fromoo the airplane t the u.s. a embassy. secretary blinken said on meet the press that we are going to keep on working with these afghan interpreters and translators and people who helped americans. but once kabul falls there is no embassy for them to go to, no place foro them to get their visas. do you support the idea that american troops stay behind to evacuate those people? >> well, those individuals should have a priority. so to the extent that the

bureaucracy is getting in the way of vary verifying they were helpful to us, we need to first get them to safe passage. then we can work on verifying the details. so that needs to be the focus. but i can't speak to the future troop movement and what that's going to look like in the short-term i here. this is clearlyt- evolving. but this is something that we have indicated is a priority s to get those with -- to safe passage with special immigrant visas that congress has passed. so we are seeing many come to the united states. but in thee short-term, having safe passage is the primary folk news congressman when you have conversations with your constituents -- here's the sad part of afghanistan. it is not a top of mind discussion for so many americans. they call itus a forgotten war because we have troops out there, and o most americans hav difficulty articulating what exactly we were doing in

afghanistan in the first place, let alone for 20 years. how do you explain what you are seeingdo now to your constituen? was there another way? is this the inevitable? what do people tell you about how weyo should be thinking abo afghanistan and america's role it? >> well, i think for a lot of us, our constituents haven't reached out on this issue. this isn't, as you mentioned, you know, top of mind. so our role, our responsibility, isur to talk with them about th historical role, as you laid out, of afghanistan. but also in a post 9/11 what we havest expended, financially, wh american lives, you know, all of that. we need to talk with them in the historical framework. but this is just an incredibly difficult situation to convey. and i think -- i think many of our constituents also see the vast resources over 20 years that have o gone to this region. and have a tough time wrapping

their head around tit. i think that's just something that we need to be honest about, and texpress. >> congressman, thanks for your time this morning. you and i have much to discuss. we will discuss it after we watch what's going on in afghanistan. congressman pete aguilar of california. andrea mitchell has been watching this, following this, and reporting on this with us all morning. she's joining us again. andrea, what do you know? what's the latest on what, et cetera -- what's the latest on what it is america is planning. we are watching the evacuation of the embassy, we have confirmation it will be closing. there is the issue of the special immigrant visas. secretary blinken said those people will have priority but i don't know what 72 hours will look like from now when roads and embassies are closed.

>> they are getting 20,000 in the pipeline at least, including translators, families, drivers, and others who have put their lives on the line of course for american forces over the years. they are desperate to get out. they are clearly going to be targeted. but others are going to be targeted as well. and they did expand to create a special program outside of that specific legislative congressionally mandated siv program to permit other civilians, women's leaders, civil rights leaders who worked with companies and non-government organizations, groups leigh like save the children and others and afghan women's groups who have been so active there in coordination with u.s. groups. those people were supposed to be included but they are really at the back of the line, behind the siv people who need those flights out.

so i don't know what is going to happen to them. there is deep, deep, grave concern among the human rights community. refugees international and othen groups have been speaking out. the human rights organizations here and around the world, it could be a blood bath for these people who have as well as the translators who have been potentially in the line oftr fa as the taliban takes over. that's really almost a fait accompli, the terms and whether they will live up to those terms as we see imminently i would expect the afghan governmenting agreeing to terms where they will be stepping down and handing over power. right now, nancy pelosi organized a conversation. we understand that secretary blinken will be briefing members of the congress. it will be unclassified. they organized a classified

briefing for those who can be here in washington or secure locations. but this is an unclassified briefing for members to call in from their t districts. as you know, the house has gone back home, a week ago now. the senate finally left after the infrastructure billin and t budget bills were passed. members are scattered. many people could as well be on official travel overseas. we don't know how many. these members will be briefed but b there is a telephone hook right now foroo members of congress. what secretary blinken has already b told our colleague chk todd -- it aired some places, airs in other parts of the country over thers next hour or so -- is that they are going to try to keep a skeletal force representing the united states atre the airport right outside kabul. so it's four miles from the embassy as the crow flies you know, from these chopper routes

that are doing these evacuations. and in that airport there is supposed to be security not only from us, but from nato forces as well. that's basically what the 5,000 americans who were sent int ju in s the last 24 hours by president biden is this effort, this exit. over thert next 72 hours, we aru told, from kabul, from the embassy -- getting them to the airport for flights out. and then the question is, what will happen to the -- as you say, the people, the translators, when they get out? are they going to be rebased in another country? there is talk of kuwait, qatar, and other countries. we know that other afghans are fleeing as ali arouy has been point og fleeing across the border toei iran. there have been pleas to keep the borders open, pakistan, from other neighboring countries, pleas to keep the borders open

so people can get out. that also remains to be seen. this was predictable, but nobody expected it to take place this quickly. >> you mentioned the nato forces. the germans moved their embassy basically to the airport. they movedsi all of their consulate facilities to theei airport. the british government is recalling its parliament this week to have the discussions that we are talking about. there is a third nato government that seems to be involved in this. i am wondering what you know about this. the understanding was that the security for the airport, which is under nato and american control, would largely be handed over to the turkish government. that hasn't happened yet. the unclear messaging from the afghan government this morning, such that it is, is that they are going to hand over control of kabul to a transitional third party. we don't know who that third party s. i wasth wondering whetr it might be turkey. they seem to be looking to take

bigger role. i don't know that anybody wants a bigger role in afghanistan right now. what is going to happen? at some point the pressure on america to leave has been heavy. looks like america is going to out of this in probably days now, not weeks. >> we were told as recently as long ago, however you put it n -- in june, at brussels meeting that turkey was being urged to take over the airport. we were negotiating the price tag what it would take to keep their forces there. nato has been there since we went in in 9/11. turkey was supposed to take that role. it has been murky whether they were actually doing it or not, whether it took place. i kept being told it was a matter what have the agreement was, what other aid we were giving to turkey. as you know, we have had a

fraught relationship, naun, with turkey under erdogan for quite some time. but he had a meeting with biden one on one in brussels. they had delayed previous calls of congratulations if turkey, that there had not been a call in january, february, or march from erdogan to president biden. so they were trying to re-establish a better relationship with turkey. and r turkey, as you know, has been suffering tearing floods and wildfires in the last couple of weeks as well.ks they have had a number of domestic concerns. i am not sure,a and i confess don't know physically whether the turkish military ever showed up at the airport to do that. >> murky is accurate. when you mentioned the third party, the other parties involved in afghanistan, the description of what the turks might be doing, the qatari

government is involved because negotiations between the talibae and other powers have been taking place in doha, qatar. it remains unclear who the third party is, whether there is a third party that's going to be taking control. i would imagine the taliban is not interested in a third party. they have agreed to hang out a couple of days but at that point they would like kabul and i don't know that they arebu lookg for a third party to take control. >> that's right. you have said it is an unconditional surrender. i am not sure there is this interim third party which would be fictitious at best because the taliban has military control as we speak. it might be word speak to get ghani out as a face saving measure. >> andrea, thank you. andrea mitchell. joining me, now, a senior fellow

at -- she's got three decades of experience as a war reporter, one of the finest you will ever meet. back with us, matt rosenberg, "new york times" reporter covering national security, expelled from afghanistan in 2014. janine. >> good morning. >> you have seen this up close. it is something else to be watching what's going on. we very rarely in real time see this, theim invasion and collap of not just a city, a major city of 4 million people, but of a government. it looks like the afghan government has foldsed. >> -- folded. >> yes. absolutely. it is sad, predictable. the real worry is what is going to happen next. my fear is the humanitarian catastrophe that could ensue. i am worried about how the country will revert very quickly to what it was when i first witnessed it when the taliban had fallen in 2001 n. those days

my n colleagues and i walked in kabul right after the northern alliance which was back booed i the u.s. had basically toppled the taliban after months and months of heavy fighting. what i found then was a country that was completely traumatized by years of taliban rule. the situation of the women who of course couldn't go to school. i went into maternity hospitals where i found women chained to the beds. >> huh. >> children who were absolutely scavenging for food. one is wondering, after all of theseon decades of aid and assistance that has gone into afghanistan, how quickly the taliban will beaf able to rever it. the other thing i keep thinking of is mosul, how quickly mosul fell in 2014 in iraq to the islamic state. it was a very similar thing. wer saw the iraqi army fleeing very quick lesion literally getting out of their uniforms and trying to run away. and how fast the islamic state

was able to impose their brutal reign, their rule. i think the big worry is also for neighbors. what's going to happen to pakistan, which of course has extremely porous borders, tajikistanor and others. we are surprised how quickly this this has happened. >> pakistan has a very, very big border, frankly, they were providing the taliban with some of the matches that were used to set this fire. now they have got a problem. they enjoyed destabilizing the pakistani government forng year. -- destabiliing the government for years. now they have the detable government as their neighbors.

>> this is not an outcome they are going to be sorryot about i the short-term. how long it takes to stabilize, whether they ends up with refugees, those are all questions we will have answers to very soon. but for pakistan's government, this is viewed as a win not a loss. it will keep afghanistan for being a launching ground for any ofgr pakistan's regional rivals mostlys india. and it will secure their influence in what they see in a crucial -- >> janine, you were in afghanistan when the government took over from the taliban. as you describe a situation that andrea was talking about, that matt talksal about, the worst situation imaginable for women anywhere in the world quite passably. anywhere in the world quite passably have a spokesman who has ensured

that the population will be safe while the transition to the islamic republic occurs. i find this hard to imagine, given their history and what happened while they were in control before 9/11, before 2001 when they were toppled i think diately the good that has been done to transform the rights of girls going to school, they'll probably stop, close down all girls schools they will kill or certainly imprison anyone who had anything to do with any western country so that means the interpreters, my colleagues that i worked with for years are in grave danger. anyone who is painted in any way by the west is in trouble. they will seal up borders very i remember crossing into taliban territory in 2001 before they had fallen. we literally had to take a raft across tajikistan to afghanistan. so the country will close down and will revert back to fourth

century standards, which is what they want. women will be below human, subhuman. hospitals, even in those days, women weren't allowed to be seen by male doctors. so the maternity rate, the birth rate, children being born, death rate was very high. and basically it had gone back into a country that would have existed in the 4th century. now, some people will say they have learned in these years, in these 20 years since they toppled, but i think their tenetsnk basically have not and they will continue to give this brutalo reign, human rights wi be discarded, and a humanitarian catastrophe, the likes of which we haven't seen in a while, will ensue. so i am bracing myself for absolutely the worst case scenario. and again, wee had no idea it would happen this fast. we knew the afghan army couldn't hold out. we knew that they don't have

weapons. they were being sent to the front without food, without water, that there's mass corruption. but still, the speed at which the taliban had been able to take al sharif and the other provincial cities, now kabul most likely is i think a good indication ofnk how badly they want it, and how much they will do once they are in control again. >> it's truly amazing. i mean, the numbers probably are not accurate burks we think about 75,000 taliban troops versus 350,000 american-trained and equipped afghan military, and this is how it has gone, largely without battles. the taliban has taken most of this country and will probably take kabul without firing a lot of bullets. thank you. i'm sorry, i hope you're both wrong and i think you're probably both right. janine is a senior fellow at the jackson ennis tult for global affairs. matt rosenberg is a "the new york times" reporter covering national security. thanks to both of you this

coverage this morning our breakage continues with "the sunday show" with jonathan capehartw" starting right now. good morning, i'm jonathan capehart. this sunday we're continuingod monitor breaking news in afghanistan where taliban forces have swiftly taken over. seizing key cities and closing innd on the capital city of kab. nbc news is reporting that intense negotiations with the taliban are underway to safely evacuate americans and allied afghans from the embassy there. the embassy will close once all personnel have been transferred out. according to defense officials, bagram air base and par 1 prison have also fallen. 5,000 to 7,000 prisoners were released, some of whom are hardened taliban and al qaeda fighters. this a morning the taliban capturedal the key city of jalalabad in the eastern region of thern country, solidifying their near total control of the country.