good day from msnbc world headquarters in new york city. welcome in to alec wit reports. i'm richard lui in for alec. here's what's happening 2:00 p.m. eastern, 11 a.m. pacific, 10 p.m. in afghanistan. we have fast developing happenings in afghanistan. as night falls, new report the airport in kabul taking gunfire. that is after u.s. troops spent the day moving americans and allies from the embassy to the airport. the embassy is now advising all u.s. citizens to shelter in place instead of heading to the airport. also, we can now report that msnbc now has confirmed afghan president asgraf ghani has fled the country. earlier today a spokesman for the taliban told nbc news they ordered fighters to enter kabul

to prevent looting since their predecessors fleed. smoke rising from the u.s. embassy grounds as officials scramble to burn sensitive documents no they are destroying classified documents as i speak. the visa process is stopped. and now -- you know, president biden said in july, this is not going to be a saigon. it is not like south vietnam. but guess what? when i talked to ambassador crocker, we think it is going to be worse. >> president biden has increased the deployment of u.s. troops to kabul to 5,000 now to help with evacuations. and debate continues over which administration is responsible for the fall. >> there is no question that trump, his administration, secretary pompeo, they also bear very significant responsibility for this. president trump told us that the taliban was going to fight terror. secretary pompeo told us the taliban was going to denounce al

qaeda. none of it has happened. >> we go beyond the headlines. we will start with nbc's ali arousi in tehran. from where you see, what do you see happening right now, what is happening in afghanistan, and what about the refugee crisis? >> obviously the situation in afghanistan itself is desperate and chaotic. of course, afghanistan shares a very long, porous border with iran. we are seeing a mass of refugees trying to escape the grip of the taliban and pour into iran. there are already about 2.5 million afghans living in this country. they are mostly undocumented. and that number is set to increase dramatically as the situation deteriorates in their own country. the iranians have set up three

makeshift refugee camps in three cities that are very close to the afghan border. they are holding a lot of the people there in these camps until they can get out. but afghans are desperate to get their families out of there. there's a lot of afghans living here. and they are calling anybody they know in this country len them money torque call anybody that may have some influence to help bring their families over to iran. and richard, it's a very difficult existence for them here in iran. they have to work very hard, menial jobs. they don't get paid well. they are not looked after. they don't have any insurance. their children can't get educated. but it is still better than what we are facing in afghanistan. of course, this is a problem for the west as well. many of the afghan refugees that are coming here don't want to stay here because it's such a difficult life, and they try to make their way to iran's western border with turkey. and then, from there, to try to get to in your opinion and beyond. and i think that's what we are

going to see play out a lot over the coming days and weeks, this exodus of afghans pouring into iran and then trying to get into europe and beyond from there as the situation in their own country rapidly deteriorates. >> thank you so much for the very latest on the grounds in iran. let's go to nbc muse pentagon reporter kourtney cuby. last hour arc lot of developments. you have been on air letting us know what you are learning, including about gunfire at the airport, the president fleeing. what are we hearing on the military front? >> we just had confirmation from one of our colleagues at cbs that in fact the president, ghani, has fled from afghanistan. from a u.s. military perspective, we know there were these u.s. military troops,

marines and soldiers are continuing to flow into the country. where it stands is there were roughly 1,000 that were -- there were 1,000 who were already there. more have moved in in the last 48 hours, but the total force of about 5,000 that president biden has authorized, they are not in there yet. so this effort, this mission to get americans out, primarily these americans who were working for the embassy and afghan who is were eligible for a special immigration visa or some other diplomatic process to get out of the afghanistan and enter the united states, it still under way and still seems to be in the early stages in terms of being able to get these people out. you mentioned that the airport has come under fire, taken fire. they are unconfirmed reports but the u.s. embassy in kabul is now warning americans to shelter in place, not to move to the

airport. that is a very moment by moment situation that we are trying to get a sense of exactly what's going on securitiwise at the airport. we should point out to viewers who may not be particular with the geography of that airport. this is the civilian side of karzai international airport. there is also a military side. for years there has been what is really a sprawling military base there at the airport as well. it was handed over to the afghans largely. there has continued to be a u.s. military presence there, smaller in recent days. but that's how the military is able to flow in thousands of troops with very short notice and hold them and house them there as they have already got the infrastructure that exists at the airport now. the big question we are trying to answer this hour is what's going on with control of the government? is the afghan government now that ghani is gone -- is the afghan government still in control of the country?

>> right. >> or have the taliban taken over? what is going on at the airport? are flights skpomg going? can the americans and the afghans who trying to get frantically, can they still get out. we don't have answers to these question at the moment. >> karzai was the leader at the beginning of when the united states became involved in this conflict. >> exactly. >> we will touch base with you later. let's go back to kabul. joining me, matthew aikens, he's in kabul and a contributor. i have been following what you have been posting. what is it that's happening right now? it is about 10:00 p.m. right now local time? >> yeah, it's 10:37. there are helicopters in the sky. the evac flights are well under way. the city, at least where we are has been quite calm. the police completely melted

away. they are no longer in their positions. so there is some fear about looting because the taliban have fully taken over. but today we did go to the western outskirts of the city and we saw taliban there. they were coming at the city on humvies, on rangers, on government vehicles. there were crowds in the street cheering them. little children running after them. and it was a quite peaceful scene, actually. >> so that seems to be the opposite, at least, of the energy by which we are talking about this very topic here, matthew. and that is right now and for part of the day. were people surprised though, about how quickly the taliban swept across the country? what are the locals telling you right now there in kabul? >> people are absolutely stunned. they are in shock. it's been, you know a very scary time. a lot of people who were trying to evacuate and get out got stuck. i am getting terrified phone calls from people. but the fact of the matter is,

so far, it has been peaceful. we just have to wait and see what happens. because we have been stunningly wrong about this conflict in so many ways. and we were caught by surprise by this. it would be foolish i think to rush to conclusions about what will happen next. >> why are they surprised? >> why are they surprised the country collapsed in a matter of nine days? >> exactly. >> when the first provincial capital fell, just nine days later the capital fell. no one predicted the whole country would fall like rotten log. mismanagement and corrupt leadership -- we should take with a grain of salt the predictions about the future. be on the ground, watch what is

happen asking see what it brings. >> did you see anything different that would tell you as a reporter that would say, yes, i did expect the seeing in slyke -- something like that, this speed, this rapidity? >> what i have seen is in her at and other provincials that fell, there were peaceful incidents. it is early to say definitively what's going to happen, but it has been fairly peaceful in the other cities that the taliban took. it has been fairly peaceful. it gives me hope it will be peaceful in kabul. we have to wait and see. >> matthew akins in kabul, around 10:30 p.m. in the evening local time. thank you for your reporting today on what is happening there. appreciate it.

let's get to shannon petty piece at the white house. what do we know about the latest briefing between the president, vice president, and the national security team. to that we are confirming in a the afghan president has fled from afghanistan. >> we haven't heard from the president directly today. we got a lengthy statement from him yesterday. but he has made no public comments in several days now. the white house did say that the president and vice president were briefed via teleconference. they said the main focus of this briefing was to get an update of what the situation is when it comes to getting the americans out of this country, ensuring the safety of the military personnel there, and what the status is, or the process of getting out these afghan who is have aided the u.s. government. that's sort of the theme. the focus, that we have been hearing about from this administration. it is worth noting that they are not talking about what can be done to help the afghan people

aside from those who qualify for this special status as having helped the u.s. or other international organizations. you know, they are not talking about what could be done to push back the taliban, or what could be done to support the afghan forces. they are talking -- really focused on america's interests and what needs to be done to get americans out. and of course this is not the outcome that this administration had hoped for. it is not necessarily the outcome they had projected. but i do think the thing that has caught most of them offguard -- you heard matthew talking to this a moment ago -- is the speed. here's what the secretary of state had to say about this break neck speed we have seen this situation unfold in afghanistan. have a listen. >> we've known al along, we've said all along, including the president, that the taliban was at its greatest position of strength at any time since 2001 when it was last in charge of the country. that is the taliban that we

inherited. but at the same time, we had invested, over four administrations, billions of dollars along with the international community in the afghan security and defense forces. the fact of the matter s we have seen that that force has been unable to defend the country. and that has happened more quickly than we anticipated. >> so disappointment there in the afghan security forces. but we are also seeing this administration really on the defense. and you can hear that as well from the secretary of state there. we have had a number of members of congress, former obama administration officials on our air just in the past couple hours criticizing this administration's handling of this. and not necessarily the decision to pull out troops, though there is criticism around that, but how they have handled this process of trying to get the americans out and trying to get those afghans who have helped the americans out of the country. and that appears to be where the real frustration with this administration is, and one of the areas they are most focused on and most trying to defend

themselves around. >> covering our breaking news from the white house, nbc news schani petty piece. thank you for that. getting us up to date on what the white house is saying. let's go to douglas lawsuit, a retired u.s. army lieutenant general who served as deputy national security advise for for iraq and afghanistan under george w. bush. he also served as obama ambassador. thank you for joining us. first question. i know you said you agreed that the u.s. should be getting out of afghanistan. 20 years long, as has been said. tell me about that. but alsoor assessment on the last nine days and the developments have that -- that have occurred including what is coming out of kabul. >> it is reasonable that world's attention today are around the tragic events of what is happening in and around kabul and across afghanistan. that's natural. i think it is also usely to take a slightly longer perspective on

this. the stage was set ten years ago for the drama that's playing out today with the helicopters overflying kabul. why do i say that? because ten years ago we brought to justice osama bin laden and decimated al qaeda. of course it was al qaeda that took us to afghanistan 20 years ago w. the addressing of that vital national interest, i would argue the only vital national interest in afghanistan ten years ago the last ten years featured staying on to try to get the afghans space to development for themselves government stability and benefits for the people. what we have seen over the last ten years since the bin laden killing is too much squabbling and bickering among parties, failure to deliver the process. too slow a process. and a diplomatic stalemate in the opening to talk to the

taliban about the future of afghanistan. finally in that last ten years we have seen joe biden be very clear and consistent that he, as president, will focus on the vital national interest of this country and focus on what is best for american security. so, actually, the events we see playing out dramatically today i think have their roots then years ago. >> ambassador, one of the arguments that we are hearing from the administration is that this was a plan from the previous administration, and that they needed to follow through and they could not renegotiate the time line and thereforer with seeing what is happening today. is it possible, and this is especially your expertise here, sir, is that wouldn't there be the possibility of asking for five or ten months, new administration, let's got out here and reassess what's the best way to get out of here. >> biden did take an additional four months beyond the trump deadline of 1 may.

there was an extension, which i think is reasonable. again, the reality here is that this didn't collapse, the government didn't collapse. the security forces didn't collapse in a wholesale fashion just in these last days. it has been a steady erosion of capacity, both political capacity from kabul and military capacity. i would just note it's important what one of your previous presenters mentioned. that is that most of the cities of afghanistan did not fall by force of arms. they fell by political deal. this is as much of a political collapse as a military collapse. >> if there was a political collapse what does it say about the exit strategy and what has happened with the military as they have been working through, the u.s. military specifically, and how they -- when we look at this, how they may have been advised by the swiftness of the taliban takeover in that you are saying there were deals made. does this mean that our presence

there did not leave an endemic or a more lasting change in the way that the afghan political military might resist what is happening today. is that, that lack of heart that you are talking about that it appears we are seeing right now? >> outside force like ours over the last 20 years in afghanistan can deliver hardware. we can deliver tangible goods. we can train them. we can field the forces. we can provide salaries, provide supplies, and so forth. we can do the physical part. but moral part, leadership, discipline, legitimacy, have to be arguically talentically afghan. i think it is that moral part of the equation that we have seen break down very rapidly in the last several days. this is something that america from outside cannot provide afghanistan. >> thank you so much. and before we go, i wanted to

ask you, if you were in the president's ear, perhaps you are, what would you suggest that he do today? >> first and foremost, exactly what they are doing. right? the white house team, the d.o.j. team, state department team is focused on the immediate task, which is bringing to safety all the americans who are in and around kabul. just behind them should be as many of the afghans who worked closely with us over these decades. bring them out as well. set aside the bureaucracy of the special immigration visa program. get the afghans the safety, and then we can sort out the paperwork. i think the immediate task is clear. it's my understanding that's exactly where they are focused. >> thank you ambassador douglas lawsuit, former ambassador of nato. appreciate your time. also the chair of international and defense practices at bgr group. how is this resonating with veterans who fought in afghanistan? joining us now, former members

of the 75th ranger regiment and coauthors of the new work requesting the 20-year war" a photo journal dedicated to veterans of the global war on terror. dan you were deployed to afghanistan three times. as you see what is happen willing today, what is going on in your mind? >> you know, it is pretty difficult to process. last time i was there was ten years ago. to the ambassador's point, i think in 2011, i believe everybody thought that that was coming to the end of the war. we were transitioning to more of a supporting force. and we were going to hand over the keys, really, to the country, to the afghanis. obviously, that didn't happen. another decade of war in afghanistan. and it's obviously had a long term effect, especially on our veterans. what i really want to say to the veterans out there, especially those that are active duty as well is just to remember that everything we did over there, no

matter what is is said in the media or the veteran community, you did your job, what you were supposed to and you should be proud of the efforts that you put on and that the people and blood the sacrifices that were laid behind were not for nothing. we provided a lot of safety and security to the afghanis and provided a freedom of movement, especially freedom for women to take on more responsibilities, be able to vote, and be able to hold businesses, go to school, things like that. >> right. >> we should be really proud of the past 20 years. >> very true, dan. i thank you for sharing that. i was just speaking with another army ranger leader just before i got on this show with you, and he was telling me, he couldn't sleep last night. he didn't know how to think about this and what was happening. tom, over to you. how have you reacted in the last 24 hours? >> dan is a much calmer person by name than i am. i have been fuming.

i had to breathe through the ambassador's segment because i found it wholly disingenuous. we have known -- my first combat tour was in 2002 and i was one of the first rangers to step into theater of war since panama. we had to read the bear wind over the mountain. they said consistently tribal identity rules everything. if you want to talk about the failures of politics, talk about all the politics that he did. malcolm nantz had it right talking about the tribes, what it meant to engage. dan and i were ground troops, squad leaders or ncos or lower, we saw it from a brass tacks way. after i got done serving i got my degree in political science and saw all the implications of the tribal systems and tribal identity. i am upset that it feels like no

one cares about the people at this point. whether it is those who served, whether it is those whose lives are at risk. the reporting that your agency has is everyone is all over the map right now. nobody is sure how we are going to get everybody out including americans who are sheltering in please. it breaks my heart knowing that these men and women in afghanistan who helped us so long are in danger. do they have to find these people by going house by house if this goes sideways. this is a situation that could have been wholly managed in a much much better way? on that tack, to a moment to you, dan, as we hear what is happening, the afghan confirmed, as left the country. 5,000 troops, u.s. troops, now

coming back. is that enough? kabul, which seems to be the last bastion of pseudosafety is about the size of los angeles, right in not only in population, but also in area here. the airport sits right in the middle of it. is this going to work? the number of troops that are out, and the timing itself? >> you know, i don't know if it is going to work, to be completely honest. but if the taliban were smart they obviously would not attack the american troops because you know they are trying to get american lives out of afghanistan. if there is anything that's going to prompt america or the nato allies to get back into the fight, it's to take the fight to the americans. so my hope is that as the taliban come into kabul that they will leave freedom of movement for the americans and the american troops to get to the remaining americans in kabul and get them out safely. and then hopefully there will be a lasting presence to help with the afghani interpreters and

other allies of the united states and help transport them out of the country. in a very freedom of movement way. >> i want to finish with this. you get asked this a lot as authors. to you on this, tom, first. you asked -- you are asked this question, was it all worth it? and how do you explain it to your children? how do you explain it to your family in terms of understanding what we are living through right now? because you have so much expertise in understanding what is happening. >> so, when we wrote "the 20-year war" and we have 71 individual reflection stories in this journal. we feel a responsibility to tell an authentic story. authentically, a friends of mine, claire, who is a fellow writer, wasn't in the book. she was checking in on me and i expressed i was angry and frustrated. she said, you know, tom, what you and all of your fellow veterans did wasn't in vain.

in the past 20 years there hasn't been another major 9/11-style attack. i have been able to have my children, watch them grow up. my father has seen his grandson. and that is a level of peace that you and all the other veterans have provided both this nation and the world. and i hope you all can see it that way. and not focus on the bad or the things that, you know, about worrying about our interpreters and all of these other things. so i can't say that it's not worth it if that's -- if that's ultimately what happened. i just know that there was such a better way to do this, and there is going to be a lot of unnecessary loss of life with our afghani allies who we won't be able to get out. i am sorry to the biden administration, but they don't have a plan. and as soon as the americans are good to go we are going to bounce. just like we did with the kurds. >> to all of your families, your core family and the military family, and the friends and

family in afghanistan that you made, thank you. and thank you for your book, "the 20-year war". appreciate your perspectives and help in understanding. kevin mccarthy is requesting a second meeting with top white house officials after both chambers of commerce received an unclassified briefing this morning. ally vitale is on capitol hill. what do we know? >> that's just in the last few minutes. house minority leader kevin mccarthy saying he asked for a second briefing from that group of white house officials who briefed the house lawmakers this morning. it was an unclassified briefing. they also then briefed the senate. this is a second classified briefing scheduled the come the week of august 23rd when house lawmakers all come back to washington. right now these two briefings this morning unclassified and virtual because lawmakers from

both houses are spread across the country right now. they are on recess. this second briefing that mccarthy asked for, he told his members about it right after the first meeting. there was consternation from republican members who didn't get to ask a question on that call. mccarthy, we should note did get to ask questions on that call. in his questions and remarks from others is a coalescing around an early message that this moment that we are seeing right now in kabul is the equivalent of the saigon moment from pulling out of the vietnam war. there are others on the democratic side who are foregoing that lane of politicking instead saying they would just like to hear biden address the country. and others saying now is not the time for politics at all. i want you to take a listen to congressman jason crow who served in the afghanistan war. listen to what he says is happening right now. >> we have a mission right now. there are thousands of people, our friends, our comrades, who are there, who are going to die

if we don't response. in the days ahead, it's all about this. i am calling on the administration to pump as much combat power on the ground at hamad karzai international airport as we can muster. put as many troops on grounds as to be and hold that airport as long as we can to allow as many of our friends to get out. use all the resources of the united states of america to make this happen and save lives. >> crow speaking from his experience serving there in same way your last two guests were also leveraging their experience from bound there and the emotions that they are feeling. i would also say as we track this story from a capitol hill perspective. this is not politics as usual. foreign policy stories rarly are. but there is not necessarily one camp blaming biden, one camp that's not. it is breaking down along the lines of the fact that

afghanistan is a foreign policy quagmire that has the fingerprints of two democratic and two republican administrationsover the last two decades all over it. it is not placed in one political box over another. certainly as we continue to track this from capitol hill we are likely to see this in lawmakers' comments as well. >> ally vitale, thank you. joining us now, jeff mason, reuter's white house correspondent. the president released a statement saying this in part quote when i came to office i inherited a deal cut by my predecessor which he invited the taliban to discuss at camp david on the even of 9/11, 2019. it imposed a may 1st, 2021 deadline on u.s. forces. how can you interpret that statement being made, a genuine assessment from the white house, from your perspective.

critics are take it doesn't quite fly. >> i think it does two things. i think the president there is laying out the fact that he felt like his hands were tied in some ways that president trump teed up this decision for the country and that president biden, when he took over, had either the option of continuing with what president trump had laid the groundwork for or reversing course and sending a whole bunch more troops back in afghanistan. that was not in line with his own foreign policy vision. he proceeded with the withdrawal and now the consequences of that are clear. i think there is a political aspect to him saying that trying to spare spablt with his predecessor, also making clear that he did not want to pass on this war to another president and he wanted it to end under his tenure. >> jeff, what was the debate in the white house? clearly, this is a president that is very comfortable with foreign relations. was he up against a lot of his

advisers? >> well, he was certainly against the military, you know, military adviser who is were not in favor this withdrawal. but i think people in president biden's inner circle know his politics and know his foreign policy vision and know this was a war that he was eager to get out of long before he became president united states. i don't think that's a surprise to people in his inner circle. that said, i think the speed and rapidity, as has been talked about repeatedly over the last several hours on your network of the taliban's takeover of the country is catching this administration by surprise. and that's leading to a lot of -- you know a lot of looking back. what i am hesitant to say second-guessing because the president is clearly not second-guessing his decision. he made it very clear that he has no regret. but it is certainly creating a political issue now for this president and this white house that i think they didn't anticipate either. >> jeff, thanks for hopping on the camera for us when this

happened. jeff mason, always a pleasure to talk to you. now to the day's other big breaking news. we go to haiti where devastation from the massive 7.2 earthquake is mounting. search and rescue teams combined with bystanders are searching through the rubble to find missing people. the death toll now has risen to more than 700 dead, and 2,800 injured according to officials. and today the country was hit by a 5.8 magnitude aftershock. if you are counting, that is the 15th so far. you are watching brand-new video taken by drone of the destruction. homes, hospitals, schools and churches all damaged or destroyed. as if it couldn't get worse a tropical storm is on its way and the impacts could be felt as early as tomorrow. let's bring in the director of mercy corps and a representative

from the miami herald. your team has been on the ground in haiti. how are they preparing for this tropical storm in the you are trying to recover folks, when that dirt gets head, it is heavy and difficult to move. >> absolutely. thanks for having me. you know, it has been a really long 30 hours for those of us in haiti. you know, as you mentioned a number of aftershocks. we are hearing that the tropical storm may hit further north. so not at the epicenter of the earthquake. currently i was just -- you know, i spoke with my teammate in neep. he told me agony is everywhere, on the streets, roads and bridges collapsed, buildings collapsed, and markets as well. people are struggling to get what they need. >> it is a perfect storm in many

ways, bianca because haiti has been dealing with political instability. we are hearing this area is hard to get to by road in the south. it is not as populated but it is hard to get to. there is also an issue of gang violence that impedes the ability to get workers there. what do we understand in terms of rescue workers, first responders? how many are getting there? how many more do they need? >> the u.s. did deploy 65% of search and rescue teams to assist with the efforts of finding people through the rubble. as we know, the first 24 hours after the disaster are critical. the "new york times" did report that there has been some movement with finding a truce with some of these gangs that are blocking some of the roads into the southwestern part of the country, which is really the hardest hit part due to the earthquake and also the

aftershocks that have been fairly significant. you know, it's still not clear exactly the extent of the damage. we do know there have been total complete hotels that have collapsed, cathedrals, chuchs, -- churches, homes, it is going to be a long rescue process and mission for haitian authorities. >> these are masonry, concrete. these are very heavy homes, whether they are single or two or three stories high and not necessarily governed by building standards that we might be used to in other parts of the worlds. cara, as we look at not only the first responders, there is also -- we now hitting day two -- issues of water, supplies, staples. how are ngos, cbos like yours working to get stuff there? to remind some of our viewers this is not a place necessarily with running water. you might have to walk an hour to get water, put it in a bucket and take it back to your home.

>> absolutely. as mentioned this moment, the first 24, 48 hours are absolutely critical to assess what the needs are. the first thing to do, are there markets that are functioning? can we buy the goods we need? do we need to get them there? that raises an additional logistical challenge. all of us ngos, government actors, and other actors in haiti are working together to, you know, get that initial information, what are the needs and then come up with a plan on how we intend to, you know, either provide cash or provide those goods to people in need. >> bianca, we are talking about a lack of leadership here. there was another headline you are reporting on quite heavily, that is the assassination of the former leader of haiti. how is that coordination now falling out that we have had a day to work through this in terms of what leadership is able to do, both nationally and locally? >> i do think that, you know, we

have to keep in mind that after the 2010 earthquake, there were some changes made in the haitian government in terms of offices that were created to assist in a situation like this. but obviously, this is all exacerbated due to the political instability from the assassination of the president. and you know, right now, what is happening is really trying to assess what is the extent of the damage, who are the people who can still be rescued at this point. but you know, it's difficult, like i said, because of these gangs that have taken over parts of haiti to transport things over land. so, you know, i did speak to a lot of people in miami, especially -- you know, we have a large haitian community in south florida and north miami and in the neighborhood of little haiti. they are already thinking about other ways and alternatives of getting aid into this part of haiti, whether it is cruiseships

and airlines really coming on board and assisting with the rescue and aid mission. but it is going to be a lot of makeshift hospitals, likely, makeshift homes. for a region and a country that has already been recovering from the 2010 earthquake, this is very difficult logistically. >> bianca, thank you so much. as well as cara buck of mercy corp. on this breaking news story coming out of the haiti. appreciate your time. our other breaking story. what to expect next from the taliban in kabul. my next guest has a pair of combat boots with the dust of afghanistan still on them. still. subway® has so much new they couldn't fit it in their last ad. like new smashed avocado and artisan italian bread. 100% wild-caught tuna. hold up! 100% wild-caught tuna ain't new!

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[ grunts ] oh! find your just right at kohler.com. now back to our breaking news, the big headlines quickly developing from afghanistan right now. as darkness falls on the capital, a warning from the u.s. embassy of gunfire at the kabul airport. that is after u.s. troops spent the day moving americans and alies from the embassy to the

airport. the embassy is now advising all u.s. citizens to shelter in place. nbc news also this afternoon just confirming afghan president asgraf ghani has fled the country. that's another sign that the fall of kabul and the collapse of the government is imminent. let's bring in a retired admiral, former nato commander. now msnbc chief national security and diplomacy analyst. thank you for joining us. the administration has been saying in s many different ways this is a contingency they planned for. does it appear they planned for this? >> i think it is fair to say that the pentagon is full of plans. and certainly as a military, and when i commanded this mission for four years, 2009 to 2013 as supreme allied commander in nato, yeah, we had plans for the worst case.

i, however, find it hard to believe that they would have guessed on wednesday of last week for example, that we would be in the predict mountain that we are in right now. so, was there a plan for a worst case? probably. were they actually expecting it to unfold this way? i doubt it. >> if you were still lead e if you were the president and watching all of the intelligence coming in, would you have foreseen this? would you have foreseen that this was going to happen in what, nine days? >> absolutely not. i would have said, and i was saying quite publicly, i expected six to 12 months. i think that was the consensus of the intelligence community. >> right. >> i think all of us expected that eventually these afghan security forces would get ground down. but none of us, nobody that i am talking to would have predicted such a short period of time, richard. >> ambassador, what is the x factor? what have you heard so far of

the afghan troops despite having greater numbers and greater capability? why would they have a lack of heart? is it an inability for the united states to have trained them up properly in what it might mean to have such conflict? or is this just cultural afghanistan and you can't chain it, even in 20 years? >> by the way i am an admiral not an ambassador. >> i'm sorry. >> no worries. three things went wrong here. one is the taliban overperformed. they did a superb job orchestrating this. they played us very well at the negotiating table and moved out fast and hard all around the country. number two, the afghans themselves, the leadership, the will just wasn't there. and i think it was hanging by a slender thread. and when the u.s. announced it was pulling out, that was kind

of end game for leadership inside the afghan community. and thirdly, as a military officer who helped train the afghan security forcer for ten years i think all of us in the military share the blame here. we were given a mission to train them and make them combat ready. clearly we failed in that mission. we have got work and analysis to do. >> we have a new picture of the president. we understand he has had meetings, he has had calls. he is sitting there by himself on all of these teleconferences trying to understand what to happen. what do you think he is going through at the moment? what's the sense of intensity, and his ability to make the right decisions based on the information that seems to be coming in quite quickly, with more questions than answers? >> this is what we pay a president to do, to synthesize data quickly, to discern amongst his or her advisers who gives

him the right answers, and then to make the very, very hard decisions. i think at the moment he must be focused like a laser beam on getting u.s. citizens outof kabul. secondarily he would like to get our allies partners and friends to include afghans out. heard thely, he wants to do it with a minimum of bloodshed. he is hoping we are not going see fighting breaking out. that's why he is adding forces. smart call, overmatch the taliban at least in a small spis like guarding an airport, an embassy. get everybody out, then you can tend to the longer term challenges. >> it has been a battle of blood, certainly, admiral, for the last 20 years. what tells you that the taliban at this moment, at the end of -- what it appears to be -- of the united states' presence there, that they would hold back and hold true to that agreement that they had made with the former

administration that they will stand down? do you believe that will happen? or do you believe that they may go out with gunfire? >> i think we are going to see taliban 2.0 that's going to look an awful lot like 1.0. in terms of abiding by agreements, they broke pretty much every part of the agreement they made with the trump administration to include not conducting combat operations. they didn't come in with a cease-fire. they haven't used political process. they have broken everything. i think, unfortunately, the people who will pay for this are the 40 million afghans, particularly the women and the girls are in for a quick rocket ride back to the ninth century. it is not going to be a good experience. >> what does that say about the taliban and their organization? for so long we would describe them as feudal lords, diz pratt not organized and an inability

to coordinate among the hundreds of feudal lords there are. does this say something different, given the rapidity, that they are very organized. that they could become a hezbollah eventually at one point? >> i think so that they have performed above our expectations. partly, that was an ability to pull together in the face of the americans in country. once we are gone, and i agree with your assessment, richard, we are probably going to be out of afghanistan very shortly for a significant period of time. once we go away, once the great satan, if you will, to take the iranian words, is gone, i think you will see splinters and challenges in this group. bottom line, it's not in their culture or their history to go abroad, to try and become a global terrorist group. it's in their culture to support those kind of groups in afghanistan. so what we ought to be watching for closely is a resurgence of

the relationship with al qaeda, perhaps connecting with the islamic state and other terrorist groups. but don't look for the taliban to go outside afghanistan as an independent terrorist group. >> on our breaking news story out of afghanistan, admiral james staff readies thank you for your expertise. >> thanks, richard. a new turn in the debate over booster shoots and whether they are the key to stopping the delta variant. o stopping the delta variant. get outta here. everybody's a skeptic. paper money. it's the future! get outta here. i'm leaving with my gold. it's not crazy. help me, mother. it's an omelet. just crack an egg. at pnc bank, we believe in the power of the watch out. that's why we created low cash mode, the financial watch out that gives you the options and extra time needed to help you avoid an overdraft fee. it's one way we're making a difference. low cash mode on virtual wallet from pnc bank. >> tech: every customer has their own safelite story.

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i just stuff everything in. it has to be cold water, it's better for the planet. the secret is, with tide pods it all works. of course, it does. no matter how you wash, it's got to be tide. verizon launched the first 5g network and now we want to be the first to give everyone the joy of 5g, by giving every customer a new 5g phone. old customers. new customers new 5g phones when you trade in your old ones. upgrade your phone. upgrade your network. new concern today. the number of people in the hospital jumped 30% in just this week, inin florida, louisiana, d oregon, covid hospitalizations are at the highest level since the start of the pandemic last year. newc today also, a top epidemiologist says the latest surge could continue to several

weeks. >> we're now seeing in the southeast, georgia all to take off. doing the -- states like oregon, washington, even in the midwest increase -- for at least another four to six weeks. "new york times" reports today the biden administration is developing a plan for vaccine boosters, this reporting according to sources familiar with the effort. no policy has set, but nursing home residents and healthcare workers would likely be first in line, as before. joining me is dr. redliner, a senior research scholar at columbia university. doctor,ni let's start with this. your reaction to what we're seeing across the country. but hospitals again being the front line, but overwhelmed,

running out beds, backup bed areas. >> a poit shocking development, but really all of us were hoping that we had seen the worst of this pandemic, and obviously we haven't. i think that theio fact that wee seeing these overwhelmed hospitals -- by the way, including 200 admissions before day, is really a cause for all of us to be concerned about where b this is going. i again, i think the answer is people getting vaccinated, and the rationale or the reason for people seeing so many people now experiencing severe illness and deaths, hospitalizations, has to do with the fact that unvaccinated people are at extreme risk. somehow that message is not sinking in enough, and dr.

oster osterholm are worried about this. i think we're in troubled, and the trouble needs to be responded by getting vaccinated. where are we on breakthrough cases? what very western will the severity of what's happening with them? >> well, for one thing, we have learned that people who have been vaccinated can be a breakthrough case. people who had been vaccinated, who do have a breakthrough infection generally will have mild symptoms or no symptoms at all. they can carry the virus, but they're not going to end up in hospitals or dies from the disease. that'som really what people nee to know. please get vaccinated, and you'll be basically protected from very, very severe consequences, as opposed to the

unvaccinated who will be subject to w very severe illness, getti admitted to an icu, and not survivor this. there's a big differentiation here, and we do know, too, that the delta variant is much more transmissible. they have very high levels of virus in both vaccinated and unvaccinate. >> "new york times" is saying booster shotsis could go out as early as this fall, but two epidemiologists said booteser shots won't stop the variant, that more vaccinated people would help more. dr. redliner, what's your view on this topic? >> this is an important issue, a subject of controversy, but here's the bottom line here, richard. if you havee, some sort of seris compromise of your immune system, your resistance system and you've been vaccinated, if

you're in that group, you probably should give a booster shot. but that's really probably less than 3% of americans. for other americans who have been vaccinated, i do not think we should be rushing forward about third shots or booster shots, particularly when there's so manycu countries that desperately need theie vaccine. the world health organization is pleading with wealthy countries, don't push forward -- until we can assure that the country that is don't have enough vaccine are getting their citizens protected as much as possible. always agreed to have you. -- agreed to have you, thank you, sir. now breaking news out of the afghanistan. as we understand, we've been recording on all this afternoon, that is the rush on kabul, and what might be happeningth. new pushback on the claim that

the situation is because of an intelligence failure. ken dilanian, what have you been learn? >> the picture we're getting is a bit more nuanced than perhaps some people might believe. what we are being told is that the i u.s. intelligence communi also allowed for the possibility of a rapid collapse of the taliban, but the worst-case scenario w they sketched out wa kabul could fall by september 11th. we are being told that nobody predicted this could happen -- some intelligence officials are insisting it's absolutely not a failure. the situation on the ground was very ever-changing and tactically evolving, but clearly they didn't predict it could happen this quickly. a lot of people are asking the question why. now, they are saying that, in

fact, though, they've allowed for the possibility that the taliban could take the entire country before the september 11thco anniversary, which is pretty close, but clearly not this fast, richard. >> you know, ken, as we've been talking this afternoon and er reflect on nine days and what was learned along the way, why wouldn't they, white house potentially renegotiate the actual date, based on the reasoning, potentially, that this was a trump administration timeline, new administration would like to rethink it? i was talking about that earlier this year. what are you learning about thaa very conversation? >> i can tell you people i spy with in the intelligence community, who have been to afghanistan, are just sick to their stomachs over this. they don't understand why this wasn't handledwh differently, b then there's pushback about, look --k and courtney kube has been talk to go defense officials that once the decision

was made to get out, they had to get out quickly in order to preserve the safety of the forces. there's a certain level below which you cannot go to secure the american forces in the country. they had to get out fast.fa whether the whole situation could have been changed, whether they could have waited for the winter, for example, when the afghanistan fighting season wanes, that's another question historianless debate for years. president biden should answer that question, butor it's very clear, he, the president was committed to this policy, but in my world, and the national security world, a lot of people of all political persuasions are frustrated about it, frankly, richard. >> with more reporting for us, nbc's ken dilanian on the topic of intelligence and what led to today. that would do it for me today. morgan radford picks up our coverage from here. picks up ou coverage from here

thank you so much for joining us on this very busy news day. we want to get right to the breaking news out of afghanistan, where the fall of kabul is imminent. there are reports of shots being fired at the hanna karzai airport in kabul right now, americans are being told to shelter in place. nbc news has confirmed that afghan president asmraf ghani has fled the country. president biden and the vice president have been briefed, and do not anticipate changing their plans to get troops out of the country. take a listen. >> we went into afghanistan 20 years ago for one mission, and that was to deal with the folks who attacked us on 9/11, t