tonight on "the mehdi hasan show," as america brings its afghan rule to an end, the taliban are back in charge. president ghani has fled the country and now, afghan refugees are trying to do the same. we'll have reaction from the former afghan ambassador to the u.s. and former army ranger and afghan veteran, colorado congressman jason crow. plus, how did we get to this point and where do we go from here? we'll have live updates on afghanistan with a former senior official to afghanistan, and retired colonel and military analyst jack jacobs.

good evening. it was december 2001 when then president george w. bush made this announcement. >> for several years, the people of afghanistan have suffered under one of the most brutal regimes in modern history. a regime with terrorists and a regime at war with women. thanks to our military and our allies and the brave fighters of afghanistan, the taliban regime is coming to an end. >> tonight, 20 years later, the taliban regime is back. after sweeping across afghanistan's provinces in a matter of days, taliban forces have entered the city of kabul. on saturday, the afghan president told the afghan people in a recorded message that remobilizing the nation's

security forces was his top priority, but today, ghani fled kabul and supposedly 300,000 strong u.s. funded afghan military has all but vanished. afghans in kabul are making a run on the nation's banks, and many more are contemplating their fate. you are looking at video by al jazeera of fighters milling about in the presidential palace in kabul. nbc news has verified the authenticity of this video. tonight, we're dedicating the entire show to the imminent and catastrophic end to america's longest war. i'm deeply depressed this weekend watching the scenes and i've been thinking about the big lie. we talk about that idea these days. a gross propaganda distortion of the truth to convince the world that he won an election that he lost soundly and fairly, but there have been other big lies in america's history.

for 20 years, presidents of both parties told us again and again that we were winning in afghanistan. that all the money we poured into the afghan military was worth it. that the 2300 american troops killed there since 2001 hadn't died in vain. george w. bush said it. barack obama said it. donald trump said it. joe biden said it. just in april. >> we have trained and equipped a standing force of over 300,000 afghan personnel to date and hundreds of thousands over the past two decades and they'll continue to fight valiantly on behalf of the afghans at great cost. >> and yet, here we are. because no one wanted to tell the simple truth that american ingenuity in dollars and weaponry cannot remake the world in our image. our leaders knew. "the washington post" 2019 investigation into the afghanistan papers, a trove of classified interviews with u.s.

and afghan officials showed that those officials knew victory was an illusion, but they told the american public otherwise. they lied to us. that fraud idea of american greatness also led to magical thinking in the current administration about how this would end. here was president biden again, just last monday. >> the taliban is not the north vietnamese army. they're not remotely comparable in terms of capability. there's going to be no circumstance you will see people being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the united states from afghanistan. it is not at all comparable. >> how wrong was he? [ gunfire ] as the sounds of gunfire echo through kabul, you could see a u.s. army helicopter moving over the city. one of several american helicopters spotted evacuating

personnel from the u.s. embassy there. a state department official tells nbc news almost all u.s. personnel have relocated to a facility at the hamid karzai international airport. officials today said the u.s. is put 1g,000 more american troops into kabul to aid if the mass evacuations of u.s. personnel. now, i'm the last person to criticize joe biden's decision to go through with this withdrawal from afghanistan. i support it. but it is botched execution and wishful thinking and it's failure to anticipate the speed of the taliban's advance against demoralized afghan soldiers working for a weak government. made even weaker by corruption. the biden administration failed to prepare for the humanitarian crisis that is unfolding now. for months, the administration has struggled just to evacuate 2,000 interpreters and family members who aided the u.s. coalition in afghanistan. but as many as 100,000 of them have sought asylum. and as the taliban noose

tightens around kabul, the number is growing. yet the big lie of america's unstoppable greatness, our military power persists. you can hear it tonight in the voices of experts who argue this were was winnable for a little more time or that it would have been handled better by donald trump, yeah, the self-absorbed wrecking ball who invited the taliban to camp david for negotiations and canceled the meeting after a backlash. that idea of american greatness has led to a failed test of american goodness. let's be clear. we killed a lot of innocent people in afghanistan over two decades and now, even more innocent people are being killed as we leave. later on the show, we'll talk to political military and diplomatic experts about how this all happened. we'll discuss the latest developments in afghanistan and in washington, d.c. but for now, what about the plight of those afghans? especially women who are now

preparing for life again under taliban rule. what will come next for them? what do they have to tell us? joining me now to discuss all this is roya rahmani who was the first female ambassador to the united states. she now lives in washington, d.c. thank you so much for coming on the show tonight. what is your reaction to this news coming out of kabul at the moment? how do you feel tonight? >> thank you. i feel betrayed. i feel a loss. i feel hopeless. i feel very disappointed. and most importantly, it's just hard to pull it together and collect your trust again. that's how i feel. >> are you surprised by the speed with which the afghan government and security forces have yielded to the taliban?

your former boss, your former mentor, president ashraf ghani? fleeing from the country after saying yesterday that he was mobilizing. isn't it a savidge indictment of how tenuous your government's control was on this country, sadly? >> absolutely right. i am not surprised though. i was not surprised because when i learned that several -- when several weeks ago, our security forces were not able to carry on and defend the country because they were left dry, hanging there, without any support. not receiving any support from kabul. and then later on, receiving orders when they were on the front line of the fight, not to fight and back off and hand over. of course there was something bigger going on.

i was also very disappointed to see that the first, one of the first flights evacuating people, evacuated those who took us to this very day today. >> and before you joined public service, you of course worked on human rights. women's empowerment. in a 2019 interview with foreign policy magazine, you said the women and young people of afghanistan quote, are not willing to give up their rights. they're not willing to compromise their human rights and go back to the old days. obviously, tragically, that isn't turning out to be the case. the old days seem to be back. so what happens to those women and young people now that we have reports of the taliban are already sending working women home? >> yes. i said it then and i am saying it again. they didn't want to. they are forced. it's once again, afghan people are imposed.

their faith has been imposed to them. they do not have a role in charting it. they do not have agency over it. and the most vulnerable of these groups are women. women empowerment was the most real and tangible achievement of the international community's intervention over the past 20 years and yet, unfortunately, also the most vulnerable one. because of a variety of reasons. mostly local and domestic. but i want to also say that the best indicator to what happens in afghanistan moving forward is what happens to its women. what happens to its women is telling you what happens to afghanistan. >> i have to ask about the extent to which corruption or perception of corruption in the afghan government has helped the taliban cause. you yourself were accused by afghan media of corruption last

year because of the security barrier that was built in the afghan washington in washington, d.c. allegations that you and the embassy have said are baseless, but "the washington post" afghan papers shows that elsewhere, bribery, graft, financial corruption, were persistent problems inside of your country. did that help the taliban take over the country? your government's brazen and often massive corruption. wasn't that the big boost to the taliban? >> absolutely. one of the biggest reason of our failures today is corruption. is just this inflamed corruption that really aided everything. i was accused of course because it was mostly my own passion and dedication which became my liability and it was more of the leadership, the problems that we had in the leadership. and the discrimination and much more.

but what happened, you probably have seen "the washington post" article about a few weeks ago, too, that did a thorough investigation of what happened and wrote about it and why i was accused. but the reality is what took us is lack of accountability. lack of a functional justice system. lack of rule of law. and also the international community. >> i guess corruption is so systemic. corruption is so systemic and widespread in afghanistan, ordinary afghans don't know who to believe and who to trust on which ever side of the divide. one last quick question. you're not just a public official, public figure. you were born in afghanistan before the soviet invasion. the beginning of four decades of violence and instability. you were a rights activist. you worked for ngos. you obviously have a big network of friends, colleagues and family back at home. what are they saying to you?

how worried are you for them? >> i'm extremely worried. they are stranded. they are confused. as you pointed out earlier, there's no money in the banks. they don't know what the future will hold for them. they are just hopeless. and i don't think that they even feel that. they are just struggling right now and hoping to make it to the next day. that is the status right now. >> it is truly tragic. thank you so much for your time tonight and for your insights. appreciate it. >> thank you. congressman jason crow says there's a disaster unfolding in afghanistan. he served in that country and is now a member of the intelligence and armed services committee. he's live, next. plus, a live update from the middle east. stick around. ♪ music playing. ♪ there's an america we build ♪ ♪ and one we explore one that's been paved and one that's forever wild

but freedom means you don't have to choose just one adventure ♪ ♪ you get both. introducing the all-new 3-row jeep grand cherokee l jeep. there's only one. jeep grand cherokee l we did it again. verizon has been named america's most reliable network by rootmetrics. and our customers rated us #1 for network quality in america according to j.d. power. number one in reliability, 16 times in a row. most awarded for network quality, 27 times in a row. proving once again that nobody builds networks like verizon. that's why we're building 5g right, that's why there's only one best network. trelegy for copd. ♪ birds flyin' high you know how i feel ♪ ♪ breeze drifting on by you know how i feel ♪ [man: coughing]

♪ it's a new dawn, it's a new day... ♪ no matter how you got copd it's time to make a stand. ♪ ...and i'm feelin' good ♪ start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy helps people breathe easier and improves lung function. it also helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. it's time to start a new day. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy. and save at trelegy.com. ♪♪ i'm steven, i'm 52, and i'm a makeup artist. i met my husband in 2002.

i miss those eyes. do you think you could fall in love again? i'm so ready, you know? so, what do you see when you look at yourself? i see a really long life lived of vast experiences. botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crow's feet and forehead lines look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life-threatening condition. do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping, and eyelid swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. see for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com

breaking news out of afghanistan. a state department official tells nbc news almost all u.s.

embassy personnel have now been relocated from the embassy in kabul to a facility at the hamid karzai international airport and that the american flag has bj lowered from the u.s. embassy compound and has been securely located with embassy staff. as the situation in afghanistan grows more and more unstable by the second, the blame game has already begun at home. in a statement released, mitch mcconnell claimed that although america's involvement in afghanistan has had many authors, the responsibility towards what's taking place today rests squarely on the shoulders of our current commander in chief, joe biden. republican congresswoman liz cheney shared her take this morning. >> there is no question that president trump, his administration, secretary pompeo, they also bear significant responsibility for this. president trump told us that the taliban was going to fight terror. secretary pompeo told us that the taliban was going to renounce al qaeda. none of that has happened. none of it has happened.

>> mitch mcconnell and liz cheney's comments, which conveniently ignored george bush's and dick cheney's role in this afghan debacle, came after members of congress received an unclassified briefing on this situation today. democratic congressman jason crow attended that briefing. he's a former army ranger who served in iraq and afghanistan. thanks for coming on the show tonight. what did you learn from that briefing this morning and frankly, what is your reaction to all we've seen this weekend out of afghanistan? >> yeah. thanks for having me on. i'm heartbroken. this is a chaotic situation. i don't think that anybody that's paying attention to this can say it's going well. it certainly is not. but i frankly could care less what mitch mcconnell has to say about this. he's somebody who for decades has refused to really debate this ongoing war. even recently, he shot down debate on use of authorization of military force.

nor do i care about all the policy think tank discussions that are happening or all the white papers that are going to be produced about this. all the monday morning quarterbacking by members of congress who are now for the first time weighing in on this issue. this is really simple right now. we have one mission and one mission only. and that is we have to get security over the airport in kabul. we need to send troops in to secure that airport and we need to hold it as long as possible to evacuate all the u.s. citizens and get as many of our afghan partners out of kabul. that is our mission for the next three to seven days then we'll have decades to debate this after that. >> congressman, there are reports of up to 60,000 afghans could qualify for a special immigrant visa or some sort of refugee status. we've only managed to get 2,000 out of there, which i think is a scandal. can you guarantee to our viewers right now that you and everyone of your colleagues tomorrow morning will do everything in your power to make sure bureaucracy doesn't get in the way of getting afghans who need

to get out of that country out of there asap? >> i can't guarantee what my colleagues are going to do. if i could do that, we'd have a much different congress. but i can guarantee that since the day that the biden administration announced the withdraw policy, i've been one of the leading voices in congress to say get them out. get folks out. i've been banging the drum. holding press conferences. i was the lead author on the bill that passed congress, the hope act and the allies act, which almost doubles the number of visas for afghans. reduces administrative barriers. been working non-stop on this when the administration made the announcement. but listen, i am very frustrated because it didn't need to be this way. only in the last two to three weeks did they start the evacuation. had we started this back in april or may, it would be a very different situation right now.

>> just on whether it needed to be this way, have a listen to secretary of state blinken speaking on cnn earlier today. >> we've known all along, we've said all along, including the president, that the taliban was at its greatest position of strength at any time since 2001 when it was last in charge of the country. that is the taliban that we inherited. but at the same time, we had invested over four administrations, billions of dollars along with the international community, in the afghan security and defense forces. the fact of the matter is we've seen that force has been unable to defend the country and that has happened more quickly than we anticipated. >> frankly, congressman, is that response good enough? how is this administration so blind sided, so unprepared? how much of a massive u.s. intelligence failure is this rapid taliban victory? >> we certainly don't have the the answers to those questions. there's going to be a large debate. there's going to be committee hearings. i'm going to call for both house intelligence committee meetings

armed services committee hearings on potential intelligence failures. on how, after over 20 years and hundreds of billions of dollars, the afghan army folded as quick as it did. we're going to have to get answers to that. but we don't have answers to all those questions right now. we have an answer to one question, however. that is what is our mission right now? our mission is to get u.s. citizens, american citizens out and to get as many afghan partners out as possible. we have to be focused on that then we can have the debate about the missteps. >> congressman, a statement yesterday, the president wrote, quote, one more year or five more year of u.s. military presence would not have made a difference if the afghan military cannot, will not hold its own country. that, to me, seems undeniable. the afghan military proved it couldn't defend against the taliban. despite tens of billions of dollars of u.s. aid. you served alongside them in afghanistan. forget the policy debate, the investigations.

just your personal view. did you see this coming? did you say this is going to be a disaster when we leave? >> the collapse of the afghan army happened faster than i anticipated. i'm going to want questions as to why the intelligence i was receiving, the information i was receiving so misread a lot of this and i do want to know that. after 20 years, how did we not have a better understanding as to the will of that force to fight? i will say this. i think you have to be really careful about what we say when we talk about the afghan army. certainly the leadership, and there are afghans who pocketed millions and billions of dollars, are getting on private planes and leaving the country and leaving the rank and file soldiers behind. tens of thousands of afghan soldiers have died in this fight. tens of thousands. and i served along folks who fought honorably. you can't paint a broad stroke. there are those who fought very

hard. they're frankly at a great risk right now and that's why we have to get them out. but there are others who have neglected their duty. we have to be sophisticated enough to have a conversation that breaks the nuance here. >> congressman, we're out of time, but i have to ask this question. given this debacle in afghanistan, barbara lee was the only member of congress to vote against it in 2001. i know you weren't in congress then. but you have the debacle in afghanistan. iraq, libya. at what point does congress start trying to rein in presidents who go to war without proper debate, without proper discussion, without an end goal, without an exit strategy? >> we are long past due for that. we can't do blank checks anymore. that's why i called for the repeal of these authorizations of military force. we can't have three generations of americans going to war over 20 years spending trillions of dollars without having a robust discussion about that all the time. these aumss, as they're called, have to have a sunset provision

so they're only good for a certain period of time. it will force debate. it will force accountability. the american people have to be engaged with us on a regular basis. we just can't allow this to happen again. >> no, we can't. well side. congressman, thank you so much for your time tonight. appreciate it. next, we'll have the latest information from afghanistan as the taliban continues to take hold of that country. but first, richard is here with the headlines. hello, richard. >> hello, mehdi. stories that we're watching for you this hour. chuck schumer has called for a federal crackdown on fake covid-19 vaccination cards. the issue concerns university officials. some schools are requiring proof that students received the vaccine to attend in-person classes. the death toll is now over 1200 in the haiti earthquake. another 2800 are injured. that's according to haiti's civil protection agency. some sheltered in streets and soccer fields with their belongings. rescuers continue to search for survivors in the rubble. the sturgis motorcycle rally in south dakota wraps up today. hundreds of thousands attended

the ten-day event. this despite concerns about the spread of the highly contagious delta variant. more of "the mehdi hasan show" right after this break. t k ♪ [truck horn blares] (vo) the subaru forester. dog tested. dog approved. ever notice how stiff clothes can feel rough on your skin? for softer clothes that are gentle on your skin,

try downy free & gentle downy will soften your clothes without dyes or perfumes. the towel washed with downy is softer, and gentler on your skin. try downy free & gentle. i don't just play someone brainy on tv - i'm an actual neuroscientist. and i love the science behind neuriva plus. unlike ordinary memory supplements, neuriva plus fuels six key indicators of brain performance. more brain performance? yes, please! neuriva. think bigger. healthy habits come in all sizes. like little walks. and, getting screened for colon cancer. that's big because when caught in early stages, it's more treatable. hey, cologuard! hi. i'm noninvasive and i detect altered dna in your stool to find 92% of colon cancers, even in early stages. early stages! yep, it's for people 45 plus at average risk for colon cancer, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider if cologuard is right for you. count me in! me too! shingles? camera man: yeah, 1 out of 3 people get shingles in their lifetime. well that leaves 2 out of 3 people who don't.

i don't know anybody who's had it. your uncle had shingles. you mean that nasty red rash? and donna next door had it for weeks. yeah, but there's nothing you can do about it. camera man: actually, shingles can be prevented. shingles can be whaaaat? camera man: prevented. you can get vaccinated. baby, call the doctor. camera man: hey! you can also get it from your pharmacist! 50 years or older? get vaccinated for shingles now.

we're continuing to follow the breaking news out of afghanistan. the situation is unfolding minute by minute on the ground. right now, it's just about 5:00 a.m. on monday morning in kabul. many residents are probably sleeping, so what are they going to be waking up to this morning and what should people across the entire region make of this new force in control of afghanistan? let's bring in our tehran bureau chief to discuss. what do we know has happened on the ground in afghanistan in kabul overnight? what's the latest? >> reporter: the country is now essentially in the hands of the taliban for all intents and purposes. they've taken over kabul. the president or should i now

say the former president of afghanistan, ashraf ghani, has fled the country. the taliban have taken over the presidential palace. they've renamed the country the islamic emirate. taken down the afghan flag and hoisted up their own colors. it's been a relatively peaceful, if you like, process. they haven't had to fire a lot of shots. there hasn't been a lot of bloodshed in kabul. it was a pretty straightforward takeover for them. they've also taken over the airport. there have been reports of shots fired at the airport and taliban fighters are all over the place. but they're not in any sort of clashes with u.s. personnel. although commercial flights have so far been suspended, military evacuation flights are still taking place and from what we understand right now, most of the u.s. personnel are at the airport now trying to get on to various evacuation flights out of the country with very few

security personnel left at the embassy. burning what's left of sensitive paperwork. >> what impact is this transfer of power, if we can call it that, this takeover, going to have on countries in the region? afghanistan's neighbors. what is the view in iran, for example? iran hates the taliban. what's going to happen regionally? >> reporter: well, obviously, you're going to see a huge influx of refugees. people trying to get out of afghanistan. get away from the tyranny of the taliban and obviously one place that they will be coming into in large numbers is iran because it shares a very long porous border with afghanistan. there's already about two and a half million afghans living in iran. most of them undocumented and that number is set to go up dramatically now. but mehdi, it's a very, very tough life for afghans here in

iran. they usually have to do menial jobs. they don't get paid well. they're not insured. they don't have any medical care. their children can't get educated. yet it's still a better option for them than what they face in afghanistan. a lot of afghans i've spoken to have left everything behind there. their homes, their property, any small savings they may have, and made the crossing over to iran. the ones who are already here are desperately calling out to anybody they know, asking for some sort of financial help to get their wife and children out of afghanistan because they just can't perceive a life under the taliban. it is heartbreaking just to talk about it, but it's a reality. >> it is. >> a really good, decent, hard working people that had some hopes and aspirations for their countries, after 20 years, after 9/11 that it wouldn't go back to

those deeply dark days of the taliban. they had saved up their money to buy a small property at home and had a notion of going back there and starting a small business. that's all been wiped away. they're just trying to figure out their next move in a country where they're not particularly welcome anyway. >> i think you said it best. these dark days are back. it's deeply tragic. but thank you for the update. appreciate it. many of you at home may be asking yourself, what happened to that afghan army we spent tens of billions of dollars to train, and how big a strategic disaster for the u.s. is this? we'll be discussing that, next. 's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ we have to be able to repair the enamel on a daily basis. with pronamel repair toothpaste, we can help actively repair

enamel in its weakened state. it's innovative. my go to toothpaste is going to be pronamel repair. ♪ rock the boat don't rock the boat, baby ♪ ♪ rock the boat don't tip the boat over ♪ here we go. ♪ don't rock the boat, baby rock the boat ♪ see disney's jungle cruise. it's time to rock the boat, america. washed your hands a lot today? probably like 40 times. hands feel dry? like sandpaper. introducing new dove handwash, with 5 x moisturizer blend. removes germs in seconds, moisturizes for hours. soft, smooth. new dove handwash. (naj) at fisher investments, our clients know we have their backs. soft, smooth. (other money manager) how do your clients know that? (naj) because as a fiduciary, it's our responsibility to always put clients first. (other money manager) so you do it because you have to? (naj) no, we do it because it's the right thing to do. we help clients enjoy a comfortable retirement. (other money manager) sounds like a big responsibility.

(naj) one that we don't take lightly. it's why our fees are structured so we do better when our clients do better. fisher investments is clearly different. feeling sluggish or weighed down? it could be a sign that your digestive system isn't working at it's best taking metamucil everyday can help. metamucil psyllium fiber, gels to trap and remove the waste that weighs you down. it also helps lower cholesterol and slows sugar absorption to promote healthy blood sugar levels. so you can feel lighter and more energetic metamucil. support your daily digestive health. and try metamucil fiber thins. a great tasting and easy way to start your day. ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ hey google, turn up the heat. ♪ ♪ ♪ so then i said to him, you oughta customize your car insurance with liberty mutual, so you only pay for what you need. hot dog or... chicken? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ since 2001, the united states has spent nearly $83 billion to train and equip the afghan security forces. in about a week, the taliban flushed all that down the drain. the swift and humiliating collapse of the afghan army is evidence of not just a

u.s. military failure, but also a u.s. intelligence failure. back in june, there were reports of an intelligence assessment that the afghan government could collapse six months after a u.s. withdrawal. a withdrawal that wasn't supposed to happen for another couple of weeks, by the way. then on wednesday, that was revised down. u.s. intelligence warning it could be 30 days until the taliban isolated kabul. 90 days until they took it over. which brings us to today. afghanistan's president ghani has fled the country. taliban insurgents are trapsing through the presidential palace and video out of kabul looks reminiscent of the fall of saigon. the questions many of us are asking right now, how did this happen? who's to blame? joining me now, a senior advisor to the senior official in the obama state department and colonel jack jacobs. colonel, let me start with you. for decades, the vietnam war has

been seen as not only a defeat of america by a rag tag militia, but a stain on american conscious, a knock on global standing. is afghanistan going to play a similar role? does it compare to vietnam in your view? >> it compares very well, actually. when you're at the bottom of the military food chain, you have to believe in the mission. you have to be in your leaders and you have to believe in each other and what happened in vietnam is that even after a decade, it was corruption, poor leadership and the united states decided it was going to leave, which convinced the rank and file at the bottom of the food chain that they were going to be on their own. what surprised me in vietnam, i was one of the last combat troops to leave in 1973. what was surprising is that the vietnamese army lasted as long as it did, until 1975. no such expectations here. don't forget that three presidents in a row here said we were leaving.

continuous and pervasive and endemic corruption in the afghan army. lack of supplies like ammunition, food and water, convinced the rank and file they couldn't depend on anybody and ultimately, they couldn't depend on each other and that's why you saw what happened so quickly, mehdi. >> yeah. well explained there. appreciate that. comparison. in 2019, "the washington post" got hold of 2,000 pages of unpublished interviews with 400 insiders. u.s. generals, diplomats, afghan government officials which clearly demonstrated how senior u.s. officials failed to tell the truth about the war in afghanistan, making rosy pronouncements they knew to be false and hiding unmistakable evidence the war has become unwinnable. what do you say to people who say u.s. administration, both democratic and republican, as well as the entire u.s. foreign policy establishment basically

misled the american people for the past two decades about the situation in afghanistan. >> it's no doubt that the idea that was turning the corner that we're doing better, that the taliban are on the run, was wrong. and i think these administrations work under the shadow of 9/11 where presidents, particularly democratic presidents and politicians were very afraid of being soft of the war on terror and didn't want to make the hard decisions of not giving the military what it wanted and the military was providing a much rosier picture than was the case in order to sustain its campaign in afghanistan and now we're seeing exactly how hollow that promise was. how little was done in terms of illegal military and in fact, how powerful the taliban were and how essentially afghanistan had not really gelled around the idea that america was promoting

their, namely that there was a shining city on the hill. that the afghans should rally to. most afghans didn't believe in that. >> no, they didn't. that's become apparent in the last 48 hours. colonel jacobs, we've heard from our military leaders in the u.s. that afghan security forces were ready to take over. here's john mark millie, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff speaking alongside lloyd austin. have a listen. >> the afghan security forces have the capacity to sufficiently fight and defend their country. and we will continue to support the afghan security forces where necessary. >> colonel jacobs, how did the u.s. military, the top people in the pentagon, get this so spectacularly wrong? >> well, frequently you focus on numbers. the president himself said that well, they've got 300,000 troops in afghanistan. they ought to be able to take care of themselves. they've got top quality equipment and good training from americans and so on.

the trouble is that there's a big difference between having the capability to defend yourself and having the will to defend yourself and the afghans did not have the will to do it. and in addition to that, the military and just about any professional organization always has the capability when presented with an opportunity to do something, to say they can give enough resources. they can do it. can you do this mission? yeah, we can do this mission if you give us enough resources. unfortunately, the reality on the ground was nothing at all to do with the numbers and in the end, you've got to make sure you never believe, don't begin to believe your own press releases and that's what happened here, mehdi. >> well said. vali, you've worked in the u.s. state department. you know the massive bureaucracy there is inside of it. are we as a country really going to allow that to prevent us from saving tens of thousands of afghans who worked for the u.s.

government, who are now at risk ofmassacred, because there's a lot of paperwork to be done. before they can get special visa status. that sounds bizarrely immoral. do you agree? >> i agree. when i talk to afghans, they tell me that this idea that the afghan military could at all stand on its own is nonsense because the united states designed a military that was highly dependent or even the capabilities we proclaimed on the united states. for instance, needs and needed at that time, u.s. air support, which could not operate without the u.s. servicing the helicopters and the aircraft. so those capabilities did not exist or cannot exist without the u.s. servicing them and supporting them. so there's something disen general with us in what the general was saying. there's also a genuine vetting process. the numbers are huge.

upwards of 60,000 afghans involved. their families are four or five-member families. so we're talking about 200,000 to 300,000 people. and the united states bureaucracy has never been good at processing these things. whether it's with migrants or refugees and the timing was not on our side. but i still think we should do everything possible to get as many people out of afghanistan and help them settle elsewhere. >> this is a fascinating conversation. please do stick around. i want to continue it after the break. now that the taliban is on the verge of total control of the country, i'll ask our two experts what's next. both for afghanistan and for the u.s. do not go away. did you know that your clothes can actually attract pet hair? with bounce pet hair & lint guard, your clothes can repel pet hair. look how the shirt on the left attracts pet hair like a magnet! pet hair is no match for bounce. with bounce, you can love your pets, and lint roll less. [engine revs] ricky bobby, today the road is your classroom.

[engine revs] now let's go borrow a boat and make some bad decisions. [engine revs] time to go incognito. [zippers fasten] [engine revs] i love you, ricky! i love you, cal! what's the next stop? it's time for your extracurriculars. ¡vámanos, amigos! woo-hoo! welcome to allstate. it's time for y (phone notification) where we've just lowered our auto rates. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ and savings like that will have you jumping for joy. now, get new lower auto rates with allstate. because better protection costs a whole lot less. you're in good hands with allstate. click or call for a lower auto rate today. i was drowning in student loan debt. i was in the process of deferring them, paying them...

then i discovered sofi. completely changed my life. lower interest rate. my principal is going down. sofi is a place where you can start to tackle those money goals today. compared to where i was three years ago, i'm kinda killing it. ♪♪ i'm morgan, and there's more to me than hiv. more love, more adventure, more community. i'm kinda killing it. but with my hiv treatment, there's not more medicines in my pill. i talked to my doctor and switched to fewer medicines with dovato. dovato is for some adults who are starting hiv-1 treatment or replacing their current hiv-1 regimen. with just 2 medicines in 1 pill, dovato is as effective as a 3-drug regimen... to help you reach and stay undetectable. research shows people who take hiv treatment as prescribed and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit hiv through sex. don't take dovato if you're

allergic to its ingredients or if you take dofetilide. taking dovato with dofetilide can cause serious or life-threatening side effects. hepatitis b can become harder to treat while on dovato. don't stop dovato without talking to your doctor, as your hepatitis b may worsen or become life-threatening. serious or life-threatening side effects can occur, including allergic reactions, lactic acid buildup, and liver problems. if you have a rash and other symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop dovato and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have kidney or liver problems, or if you are, may be, or plan to be pregnant. dovato may harm your unborn baby. use effective birth control while on dovato. do not breastfeed while taking dovato. most common side effects are headache, nausea, diarrhea, trouble sleeping, tiredness, and anxiety. so much goes into who i am. hiv medicine is one part of it. ask your doctor about dovato-i did. ♪♪ ♪ when you have nausea, ♪

♪ heartburn, ingestion, upset stomach... ♪ ♪ diarrheaaaa. ♪ pepto bismol coats your stomach with fast and soothing relief. and try new drug free pepto herbal blends. made from 100% natural ginger and peppermint. we're continuing to monitor developments from afghanistan. a state department official tells nbc news almost all u.s. embassy personnel have now relocated from the embassy to a facility in the hamid karzai international airport. the taliban is reportedly inside

the presidential palace in kabul. video appears to show taliban fighters lounging in chairs and strolling around with their guns. the taliban has confirmed to the local producer that the pictures are accurate and they are indeed in the presidential palace. so what comes next? both for afghanistan and the u.s.? valle, let me start with you. joe biden, whether you blame him or not, and there will be a long blame game about who is to blame. rightly or wrongly, he is the president when this happened. this happened in his first year in office. what happens to his foreign policy? what happens to his credibility on the world stage going forward from this point? >> this was a deal signed by president trump. the doha agreement was signed by president trump. president biden had the option of not carrying it out and risk an escalation of conflict with the taliban. let's not forget the last two years, the taliban were not shooting on americans because

they were having the deal. so in a way we are implementing this deal. i think the priority is to focus on china and other global issues and to end the wars in the region. they didn't expect kabul would fall this quickly but there is no option of going back and redoing this. they have to move forward and try to work to have the least amount of fallout from afghanistan. >> indeed. and colonel jacobs with the taliban back in control, should we be worried about afghanistan becoming a safe haven for terrorists? or was that always an overstated reason for staying so long, given terrorists operate just fine out of a bunch of countries across the world and online. they don't need afghanistan, do they? >> well, they don't but they're likely to get it again. when we first went in, it was to eliminate the taliban which we did in short order. shortly after that, the mission morphed intonation building and changing afghanistan into something it couldn't possibly be.

and indeed, we are concerned about the resurgence of terrorism which is destabilizing to that region and already unstable region. and it is not conducive to our own foreign policy and national security. so we are concerned about it and rightfully so. >> so let me ask you both. and i'll start with you, colonel jacobs. i want to ask, it is an important question. in lightest what has happened in afghanistan, why should anyone watching this show tonight believe anything that the u.s. president, u.s. generals, u.s. diplomats, ever say to us again about the success of our many wars acorrode? -- abroad? colonel jacobs? >> well, we said the same thing under vietnam and unfortunately, we didn't learn the lesson. it takes half a generation. we forget everything we've learned. one of the things we need to learn, the military in particular needs to remind itself, is that on the battlefield, it's always a matter of will and not numbers.

to the extent that we focus only on numbers, we have at least a 50/50 chance of losing. and it is vitally important that we go back to the drawing board and make sure our military establishment gives the best possible advice to the national command authority. and that it shouldn't only rest on numbers. it has to rely on will as well on the battlefield. >> but you accept the trust has taken a big hit here, right? >> oh, yeah. there's no doubt about it. the military establish now will go through a great deal of hand washing and soul searching, and we'll investigate absolutely everything that has happened in the last 20 years and will come up with recommendations to improve the decision making and how we go about making recommendations to the national command authority. certainly it will be difficult to get support, certainly in the congress now, but that too will come to pass. like i said, half a generation later, it will all be back to where it started.

>> we often talk about iraqi wmd's being the big lie that dented or collapsed so much trust in the american establishment. will afghanistan take that role as well? it seems like it tonight. >> i think it's much bigger than that. in other words, there is no minimizing the symbolism of the united states losing so totally to an islamic insurgents. two decades after 9/11, the anniversary of 9/11, we are going to have the taliban flag flying over the islamic embassy of afghanistan. so this says something about not just that the united states cannot be trusted to take care of its friends, but that the u.s. strategy, the way it approach the middle east and south asia is untenable and unviable and ultimately, the united states cannot sustain it. and america's enemies need to wait out the united states and the u.s. will fold and leave. and america's friends are paying attention that they can't trust in the fact u.s. strategy works.

>> that is a problem now. it is not just the people in afghanistan looking. it is the entire world watching us and seeing what is going on. it is truly tragic. i thank you both for joining me on this historic night and i use the word historic not in a good way. but thank you both for your insights and analysis. appreciate it. thanks for watching, all of you at home. stick around for continuing coverage at the top of the hour with joshua johnson. he has a panel of experts that will be answering a lot of your questions about afghanistan, telling important stories about what's going on in afghanistan. we'll be right back here next sunday at 8:00 p.m. eastern. you can catch me live monday through thursday at 7:00 p.m. eastern on the choice on nbc's streaming channel peacock. continuing coverage of afghanistan, next. sorry? limu, you're an animal!

only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪ music playing. ♪ there's an america we build ♪ ♪ and one we explore one that's been paved and one that's forever wild but freedom means you don't have to choose just one adventure ♪ ♪ you get both. introducing the all-new 3-row jeep grand cherokee l jeep. there's only one. trelegy for copd. ♪ birds flyin' high, you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze drifting on by you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ it's a new dawn... ♪ if you've been taking copd sitting down, it's time to make a stand. start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd

in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy helps people breathe easier and improves lung function. it also helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. take a stand and start a new day with trelegy. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy. and save at trelegy.com. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy. verizon launched the first 5g network and now we want to be the first to give everyone the joy of 5g, by giving every customer a new 5g phone. old customers. new customers. families. businesses. every customer. from these bakers to these bakers. hello! new 5g phones when you trade in your old ones. cracked, busted, sticky buttons and all thank you. upgrade your phone. upgrade your network.

(laughter) one, two! one, two, three! only pay for what you need! with customized car insurance from liberty mutual! nothing rhymes with liberty mutual. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ and there you have it- woah. wireless on the most reliable network nationwide. wow. -big deal! ...we get unlimited for just 30 bucks. sweet, i get that too and mine has 5g included. that's cool, but ours save us serious clam-aroonies. relax people, my wireless is crushing it. that's because you all have xfinity mobile with your internet. it's wireless so good, it keeps one upping itself. hey there.

it's good to be with you for the next two hours tonight. kabul is about eight and a half hours ahead of the east coast, so as we speak a new day is beginning there, in more ways than one. we are continuing msnbc's breaking coverage out of afghanistan. where a taliban takeover seems all but assured. the u.s. is adding another thousand troops to its employment, helping evacuate americans as security breaks down. at this hour, almost all of the embassy personnel have relocated from the embassy compound, to a facility at the