>> the evacuation of thousands of people from kabul is going to be hard and painful, no matter when it started, when we began. there is no way to evacuate this many people without pain and loss of heartbreaking images you see on television. it's just a fact. >> the white house says that more than 10,000 people got out in the 24-hour period ending this morning, pushing the total evacuations up to 37,000 in the last nine days. the president is leaving open the possibility of extending the departures past his august 31st deadline, although today the taliban says that would cross their red line. >> there's discussions going on among us and the military about extending. our hope is we will not have to extend, but there are going to be discussions, i suspect, on how far along we are in the process. we've got breaking news on the effort to vaccinate america

with the food and drug administration giving the pfizer vaccine full approval today, after more than a year of shots in arms under an emergency use authorization. this clears the way for more vaccine mandates. president biden will speak on the fda decision this afternoon as the delta variant is also creating a surge in serious cases at hospitals, including among unvaccinated young people and pregnant women, leading to a sharp decline in the president's approval numbers on covid in a new nbc news poll. we begin today with afghanistan and chief correspondent richard engel who filed this report from doha. >> reporter: thousands of afghans have made it out of the airport and the first stop for many is doha, qatar, including afghanistan's so-called robot girls. these high schoolers competed in competitions around the world, won events and innovation awards. this 18-year-old is the robotics team captain. >> was it difficult for you to leave afghanistan, to leave your

family, leave your home? the 17-year-old ida is the chief programmer. >> i have recommendation for all the people that are still in afghanistan or around the world, just do not never give up and continue the things that you want. >> joining me no kelly o'donnell, norah o'donnell and four-time star general. let's start with what we say that just wrapped up minutes ago. what did you learn from general taylor and john kirby? >> one of the things that stuck out is the acknowledgment that now the u.s. military is leaving the wire to go and help americans who may be stuck? kabul and can't get to the airport. we know about one case that the pentagon acknowledged late last week and that was about 169

americans who were stuck at the baron hotel outside of the airport. they couldn't get through what's called the abbey gate. it's literally about 150 meters from door to door. but because of this large crowd that developed, it wasn't quite safe for them to go. the military sent in three chinook helicopters, picked them up and brought them safely. we know there's been one other situation like that. it sounds like according to john kirby that the military is now going out in certain cases and helping americans get to the airport. now, you know well, andrea, why this is a significant development. there are taliban checkpoints around the airport and there are large crowds of people that are gathering, trying to get through those gates. the military is talking to the taliban, they are coordinating their efforts and their movements with them. but the big concern now is these large crowds outside the gates. it's not just that these are

evacuees, many of whom are desperate to get through and get onto flights. there's now a concern there my be other elements mixed in with the crowds, particularly isis or potentially al qaeda. the worry is could somebody carry out an attack that would not only impact and target the afghans that are standing there waiting to get through, but could be targeting americans and others who may have permission to actually get through those gates. >> and to kelly o'connell at the white house, the president's numbers in our new nbc news poll on the withdraw are dismal, with just 25% approving of the current situation in afghanistan, although there's 60% approval of the decision to withdraw. it's another reason for him to have canceled his trip over the weekend, plus the threat of a hurricane at the time as well, and also staying at the white house for these briefings. >> reporter: there have been a lot of changes to the president's schedule, things we

anticipated that didn't take place, and things being added, like today where the president will speak about the vaccine approval by the fda. adding that in, perhaps a way to not only highlight that important development critical to the mission on covid for the white house, but perhaps a way to also pull some of the attention away from some of the more difficult news for the president in terms of political optics. the white house certainly recognizes that this is a rough patch for the president in terms of how it's reflected in polling. these are big, difficult issues with no easy answers, and the president, by virtue of his role at the center of decisionmaking and his ultimate responsibility on these matters, and he's repeatedly said the buck stops with him. so you do get a reflection in public polling about the public's concerns about some of these matters. and that distinction does bear out those who believe that it was the right decision strategically in the sweep of decisionmaking to exit the u.s. from afghanistan and then more

critical assessment from many in the public about how the last week has gone since the fall of kabul and the evacuation period. certainly the white house wants to emphasize how things have ramped up, the numbers of evacuees greater, also the ability to change, where the president talks about a willingness on his part as commander in chief to give the military the authority to go beyond the boundary at the airport that courtney was talking about, to rescue americans, and the discussion about the august 31st deadline. the president, again, giving oxygen to the idea that could be extended, while at the same time saying until they get closer, it's only another week before that decision would be made. andrea? >> and the pentagon leaders are aware that things could get dangerous. we talked about new terror threats and we'll have more later. there's a lot of self-exam nation. clearly the military did not want this withdraw, wanted to

leave some troops. what about not pushing the withdraw back, doing it in the summer months when it's the fighting season for the taliban? all of the examination now about how this has been executed. >> oh, well, hi, andrea, thanks for having me. certainly, the pentagon will certainly say -- is saying right now that the time for the after-action review will be once they've done the evacuation. they have -- it's a little bit not easier for them, but it's a little bit easier for them right now that they have such a massive evacuation that they have to carry off. that means that they can put that sort of judgment day off for a while while they focus on trying to get as many people out of hkia as they possibly can. i think the white house, president biden, sees this in a

way, and some officials say that president biden may see this at his chance at redemption if he can pull off the biggest civilian evacuation in a long time, he may be able to present that as something that we were able to accomplish. but that's far -- that hasn't concluded yet and many, many, many things can go wrong. as courtney alluded to earlier, the fact that you have -- the pentagon has acknowledged that we are sending american troops out beyond the wire, they've acknowledged formally two of them. there probably are quite a few more, but they don't want to talk about this because they're in negotiations with the taliban and this is a delicate time and it's hard to imagine that i'm saying this, but we are depending on taliban commanders to ensure the safety of americans right now. and that's a tough row for them to be hoing.

and i think after this entire evacuation is complete and we've gotten all the people out that we can get out, you would see the what went wrong and what could we have done better, because there's a lot, clearly, that the pentagon and the administration as a whole, the state department comes to mind, too, could have done a whole lot better. >> and, in fact, the state department, we just got off a briefing with a senior official talking about all of the diplomatic efforts now, because after that hiccup on friday where, as courtney and you were reporting, they weren't flying out because there was a backlog in doha to receive them, they have negotiated with more than a dozen other countries and we're seeing what's happening in ramstein where people are being flown and then are going to be flown by civilian aircraft that are now being ordered, delta and united and american and hawaiian airlines are all being recruited to fly as many more civilian flights, not from kabul, of course, but from some of these other safe locations to get them here to the united states once

they're approved. general mccaffrey, let's talk about the criticism, though, because i don't think that they can really wait for those after-action reports. there are going to be hearings as early as this week and a classified briefing for house members tonight. yesterday on "meet the press," we heard from congresswoman liz cheney about what could happen next on the terror front. >> look, the biden decision to completely withdraw has handed them an entire country, has in fact ensured not just the taliban, but al qaeda, isis, the network, terrorist organizations that want to attack the united states now have an entire country as a sanctuary from which to do so. >> so, general, this is the central mission, initially, after 9/11 to go in and make sure that afghanistan could never become a haven for terrorists. the white house has been saying how al qaeda has been designated, but there are links to al qaeda throughout afghanistan, we're told, and they claim they can do this from

over the horizon, but without the drone coverage from baram and other ground troops there, as well as the military contractors and cia, we're not going to have the intelligence, we don't know actually who fired those shots today outside the kabul airport. it could be taliban, it could be isis. >> yeah, well, look, kabul international has a large, powerful, elite u.s. military presence. air force is doing a magnificent job staging in our global assets. the state department has produced an astonishing feat to try and get these places to land tens of thousands of refugees on very short notice. the only thing that's actually important at this point is that on the ground we're in direct negotiations with the taliban,

the general is a very experienced, bright fellow, and they're going to have to work this out day by day. the arithmetic is daunting. mr. kirby was very careful to not enumerate the number of americans out. apparently it's 2,500. there may be 15,000. he's not being willing to directly confront how many siv, how many asylum seekers, how many intelligence officers that the afghans have gotten out. it's a low number. it's not going to get better. you would have to be nuts to go to a taliban checkpoint and announce you're a general officer in the afghan intelligence service. so the arithmetic isn't going to work by 31 august. hopefully we can negotiate either a continued presence or some other solution. right now, it's a dangerous end game we're facing in the next

week. >> and one reason they're not being specific, general, is because courtney and heline have been reporting, they are going outside the wire, and that is perilous, to say the least. that's not necessarily been negotiated with the taliban. we're not sure how much approval they have for that. so clearly we don't want to telegraph where these people are or how many there are. but they're never going to get to the numbers. president ford got 300,000 vietnamese out of saigon and there was very little controversy about it at the time. we're not going to be able to lift all of these afghans who are participating in education and human rights and don't have siv protection. . >> no question. there are 40 million people living in afghanistan and there are going to be millions that are at great peril from the taliban. never mind the isis short-term

tactical threat to the airfield. and we said there were a couple hundred thousand afghan family members and siv people and commandos and intelligence officers. so, again, the arithmetic just didn't going to work. this is not the time to negotiate in public. we've been running sensitive operations all over afghanistan since it collapsed in 11 days. that will continue. probably with the acceptance of the taliban. >> courtney kube, kelly o'connell, heline cooper, general mccaffrey, thanks to you. senator mccain serves on the armed forces committees and comes from a marine family with your son who is in service joining me now. thank you very much. i'm not sure that congress is going to wait for the after-action reports. what do you want to know about how this came about?

>> look, there are a million questions that we do have to dig into, why did the united states spend thousands of lives and hundreds of billions of dollars training an afghan security force multiple times the size of the taliban, only to watch the taliban -- only to watch the security force basically give up? how disturbing that is. was our training poor, were they unwilling to fight the corrupt leaders, did they not want the things we wanted for them? there's a lot of questions that have to be answered. but i do think there's maybe four things that are very clear right now. first, president biden was right to say the u.s. military mission in afghanistan should be over after 20 years. when he came into office president trump said we're getting out on may 10th. that would have been a disaster. but president biden decided by the 20th anniversary of this war the u.s. military has done what we can do and the management of afghan society has to be on the

shoulders of the afghans. second, the u.s. has got to be very realistic going forward about our ability to try to transform another country. we achieved the principle anti-terrorism mission when we killed bin laden in 2011. we primarily stayed beyond that to try to reconstruct, help reconstruct a better afghanistan. but, andrea, let's be honest, we can't convince a huge chunk of americans to get a vaccine or that the election last year was legit. our ability to social engineer another country is something that we had too much confidence in our ability to do something that's, frankly, impossible. we have to realize that. fourth, we've got to do more to get out sivs. we've settled 70,000 to 80,000 afghans in the united states before this recent need to evacuate. we've evacuated 45,000 to the u.s. or other countries since the beginning of the month. but we've got to do more and the

chaos surrounding this is troubling. i am proud in virginia that we're welcoming afghan sivs at dulles airport, at a community college near the airport and fort lee. and finally, and i've been saying this since i came into the senate in 2013, congress has to do more to oversee u.s. military operations, when we go to war, how long we stayed at war. the congress gave president bush a blank check that didn't describe the enemy or put any time limitations on the mission, didn't really describe what success looks like. our troops are great, but if you give them an unrealistic mission or unclear mission, the results are sadly predictable. >> let me push you back on the withdraw, because there's support for the withdraw, we know that. some disagreement over it, for sure, but 60% of americans support the idea of the withdraw. you said that he pushed back may 1st. why not push back to the winter

and get through the fighting season so the taliban didn't have as much traction as they had? why choose that symbolic date of 9/11, which many people found offensive and politically inspired? he says that it was the trump administration that negotiated this. yes, mike pompeo signed the deal, but he's broken, happily broken the deals that trump negotiated by getting back into the paris climate accord, by getting back into negotiations to try to get the jcpoa back on track or some form of it. so he has not shied away from breaking trump mandates. so there was nothing magical about may 1st and nothing magical about 9/11. >> here was the dilemma that i think the white house faced. 2,500 u.s. troops in afghanistan was a sufficient number when the taliban believed we were leaving, and so they were willing for the last year, when

the trump administration basically said we'll get out in may, to leave u.s. troops alone. we weren't in the midst of a fighting season. but what the biden administration grappled with is, if we decide we're going to keep troops in longer, 2,500 won't be enough. because we can't count on the taliban just leaving u.s. troops alone if we say now we're going to stay beyond may 1st. and so what would it take? would it take another 5,000 or 7,000 or 10,000? that's what the biden administration was grappling with. if we are going to decide we want to keep a force there for some period of time, how much of a force do we need to keep in, u.s. lives will be at risk when the taliban decides to resume fighting again during the fighting season. and i think these contemplated that reality, president biden just decided, we don't need to send more americans into afghanistan. we've invested thousands of lives and hundreds of billions,

trillions of dollars over 20 years to try to create an afghanistan that's more stable. by now, the stability of afghanistan is not depending upon 2,500 troops for another few months or few years. it depends on whether the afghans care to fight for their civility. and sadly, we've seen it melt away to a smaller force, dramatically smaller force. >> true enough. thank you very much for being with us today. and creating that backlog, new information on how the trump white house crippled the visa program for afghan allies. we'll talk to a whistleblower who witnessed it all. the fda approval for the pfizer vaccine, will that get skeptics off the fence? you're watching "andrew mitchell reports." this is msnbc. msnbc. i don't know. i think they look good, man.

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battle against the coronavirus, the fda today finally granting full approval for that pfizer vaccine, clearing the way for the government, cities and businesses to require vaccinations, mandate them for employees. according to some polls, possibly persuade some reluctant vaxxers to finally get the shots. joining me, dr. john torres, senior medical correspondent, and senior scholar at the johns hopkins center for health security at the bloomberg school of public health. dr. torres, how did the fda finally make this call and dounk

it's going to help convince some of the unvaccinated? >> andrea, the way they made is call is sort of on the order they did the emergency use authorization. it was pfizer first, then moderna and johnson & johnson. so pfizer was the first one to submit the data they needed, which in this case was six months of data after people got vaccinated, looking for any effects and looking for effectiveness, efficacy. they got the data and now they analyzed it, looked at manufacturing facilities and they gave full approval. the difference here being that full approval is a permanent approval, whether there's a pandemic or not. they want to make extra sure. now, as far as where this will go to give people confidence to get it, the fda is hoping that it will. as a matter of fact, the fda commissioner janet woodcock said while millions of people have already safely received covid-19 vaccines, we recognize for some, the fda approval may instill additional confidence to get vaccinated.

so they are hoping -- you can see the statement right there, that this does give people, because surveys have shown some people were hesitant to get vaccinated because it was just under a temporary emergency use authorization. now that it's under a permanent approval, hopefully more line up to get the vaccine. we can get more people vaccinated and get through this pandemic sooner. >> and, doctor, do you think this is going to lead to more vaccine mandates? this morning mayor de blasio in new york city announcing all public school staff are now going to be required to get at least one shot by september 27th. so might other cities also follow suit? >> i definitely think that's going to be the case, because we know that there were many people who were reticent and now we're seeing a slew of organizations starting to require it. i think this is going to be the a trend and a good trend, because that makes your workplace safer and makes it more resilient to covid-19 and will increase vaccination rates. i hope more organizations do

this as well. >> doctor, do you know why the hang-up? we don't have an fda commissioner, acting commissioner woodcock. do you know why the administration doesn't have one in there yet? >> no, i don't know. there's been a lot of speculation in my field about when and where an fda commissioner will be named and who that might be. but i think a lot of people have confidence in dr. woodcock. she's led the fda in various rolls for a long period of time. maybe she'll become the permanent commissioner. and i do think it's important in the midst of a pandemic to have a senate-confirmed commissioner that's not acting. but i think they're doing a good job right now with the approval. i think we would all like to see them move faster, but i don't know what the machinations are that are holding this up. >> we understand from moderna they don't have the data yet or the application for full authorization. so pfizer is ahead of the game here. but this could be a big change. thank you both. and a large swath of the

northeast is still drying out from that tropical storm henri this morning. more than 64,000 people left without power as the storm dumped several inches of rain from new jersey to massachusetts. now, a different storm system had a catastrophic impact in tennessee, with more rainfall over the weekend there and at least 21 people have died. 40 remain missing after heavy flooding tore through communities. we find nbc news correspondent sam brock joining us. record-breaking rain, terrible stories, heartbreaking tragedy, including 7-month-old twins among the dead. have they found any more of the missing? >> reporter: young and old, across the spectrum, andrea. this is heartbreaking, also unrecognizable to the people who live here. there were 21 confirmed deaths so far, 20 of them are in waverly and specifically the city of waverly. there are ongoing search and rescue efforts right now.

not exactly where i'm standing but in the general vicinity. i'm going to show you what this neighborhood looks like now. the strength of this flooding, this would be similar to what you would expect to find after a tornado. this house here has been shifted off of its foundation. there's a cavernous hole and you see vinyl siding everywhere. that is electric infrastructure, a transformer just ripped up and thrown across this lawn. you'll see all of these empty lots, what are now empty lots, that were full foundations with homes shifted right off. earlier we saw smoke coming up from some of the homes on the other side of this. there's a creek in the middle. the creek had water that came up more than a quarter of a mile, after 17 inches of rain, moving these homes around. and you talk about all the people missing right now, the number is back up to 40. it was 25 this morning. those efforts are urgent, they are ongoing. as soon as we have more information, we'll bring it to you. >> thank you so much. sam brock. and the terror threat in afghanistan, afghan evacuation

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overnight a sniper attack outside the kabul airport, adding to the chaos there. no indication of whether it was related to the taliban or possibly isis. after president biden's national security adviser warned sunday, the threat of a terrorist attack by isis is real, acute and persistent. this threat posing serious danger to the administration's evacuation of thousands of americans and afghan allies. joining us, former homeland security security jay johnson, who also served as general counsel at the pentagon. thank you very much for being with us. the u.s. got into afghanistan 20 years ago to fight terrorism, and they say, and president trump said we're getting out because that threat has been eliminated. but has it really been eliminated? because it's been diminished, al qaeda has been diminished, but it's still there, and now we have this threat from isis and other terror groups. what is your take? >> let's start with this, afghanistan -- and i've been

there several times -- is most notable because it's remote, mountainous and ungoverned space. you could probably hide an entire large american city in the mountains of afghanistan undetected. it is the very type of place that terrorist groups seek to establish as a headquarters, as a base for training and gathering, whether it's afghanistan, the horn of africa, yemen, syria, parts of iraq. so there is that real risk, particularly now that the taliban has taken over again in the government there. on the other hand, terrorist organizations, some at least, do have the capability to think rationally. we're in the process of leaving afghanistan right now. a terrorist organization doesn't necessarily want to do something to provoke us to stay or double down in our presence. but we do have to regard the

recent turn of events as creating a real risk of another terrorist organization, whether it's isis, al qaeda, trying to reestablish a foothold in afghanistan, andrea. >> would it have been better to leave 3,500 troops as the pentagon had recommended? that was overruled, of course, by the president. >> andrea, i've been saying for months now that i think it would have been appropriate to leave a small special force dedicated to counterterrorism intelligence collection purposes. one thing that is lost in this debate, there's getting out and there's getting out. at 1.10 years ago, as you know, we had a presence there of over 100,000 troops. that force is almost all gone. combat operations have been discontinued. i believe it would have been appropriate and prudent for us to leave a very small force,

we're talking about a country of 38 million people, a very small force in place that could accomplish a lot for counterterrorism purposes. we've seen that in places like syria and iraq, what a force of just 1,000 or 2,000 of our people can do. >> they keep talking about over the horizon, intelligence and counterterrorism, but it would take drones hours to get there from qatar, and so then they've wasted half the mission just going back and forth. wouldn't it have been better to keep bagram and to keep some force on the ground? >> well, there are several reasons why it would have been better to keep bagram. bagram, itself, when its at its peak, it was like a large american city. you had something like 100,000 troops that could pass through at any one time. it would have been better, certainly, for the current operations at the airport in kabul and for our own purposes

to keep some small, very install footprint there. but we did not. true, there is an over-the-horizon capability, but it is not a quick and easy substitute for having an actual presence there, a small presence there on the ground. i understand the desire to get out, andrea, after 20 years. but getting out doesn't necessarily mean removing every single member of the united states military from that place. as you know, we have our military in small forces stationed at a number of places around the world. >> and we also removed the military con tractors by shutting down bagram, the people who kept the defense air force going, because without that, without the repair and mechanical help and the support, plus the military cover, the air cover. because that really contributed to their sense of abandonment

and one of the reasons why they flipped sides. but i also want to ask you about the debate internally in terms of leaving when we left in may, in the middle of going into the fighting season rather than delaying it. and if you're going to leave -- you know, pull out completely, getting the military out safely first, that's the argument for taking bagram out first. before you get the civilians and the diplomats and the afghan allies out. that priority, which was debated internally, is really coming into question. >> clearly had we predicted what we're facing now at hamid karzai international airport with americans and afghans surging on the airport, we would have left in place our military. we've had to put back in something up to 6,000 to deal with the situation at the domestic airport now.

so for whatever reason in the situation room, they concluded that they wanted to move the so-called boots on the ground first. obviously, we've had to rethink that. and i believe the situation at the airport is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. this is a country of 38 million people. we've got to deal with the american citizens, those who qualify for special immigrant visas, but then those who will qualify for refugee status under our laws. and that population could snowball. >> former homeland security secretary jay johnson, as always, thank you very much for being with us today. >> thank you. and sliding in the polls, president biden's approval takes a hit, but it's not his handling of afghanistan that's bringing him down. we'll dig into the new numbers from the nbc news pool next from mark murray. "andrew mitchell reports" on msnbc. .

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presidency joe biden's approval rating has seen a shift slipping below 50% in the latest nbc news poll. the president's handling of the coronavirus has seen the biggest hit, a 16 point drop in approval since april, as cases surge across the country, thanks to the delta variant. joining me now is nbc's mark murray to break it down. where do you see the biggest problem and how this illustrates the divide between democrats and republicans? >> andrea, so clearly the honeymoon for president biden is over and it's probably been over for a bit. but our poll is showing the 16 point drop on his handling of the coronavirus, there was a 5 point drop in his handling of the economy and 25% approved of his handling of the situation in afghanistan. but the good news for the president is that he's still above water in these polarized times. you have 49% of all adults and 50% of registered voters

approving of his job. a better situation that formal president donald trump ever had in his presidency in our poll. >> we should point out that 60% of americans approve of withdrawing from afghanistan, it's just the way he handled it is only 25%. and it's a fascinating partisan divide. 88% versus 88%, democrats and republicans, approval and disapproval of the biden record. we also see a really sharp partisan divide on whether they want democrats or republicans to run congress. >> andrea, even further on the split, independents are divided, 46% approve of president biden's job, 46% disapprove. and even someone like anthony fauci who has been seen as being above politics, his numbers look a whole lot like the numbers of the 2020 presidential election where he's plus 4 on his positive versus negative rating in the feeling thermometer. so just someone who of his stature, being reduced to this

kind of political back and forth, to me, just only solidifies just how divided we are. >> he's been demonized on fox news. >> and seeing the democratic versus republican splits. >> when you look at this partisan divide, how do we bring the country together on anything important like covid or afghanistan? my own take is that if this continues and gets worse at kabul airport, as jay johnson was just predicting, but as this really seeps in, that the afghanistan members could be a lagging indicator and you could see that starting to take a bigger bite out of his approval. >> it's important to note that our poll was in the field, before, during and after kabul and the falling to the taliban. so to get a bigger measure of what's going on we'll need to see future data. but when we asked people what is their biggest concern and what they're going to be voting on in the 2022 midterms, no one mentioned affidavit. we'll see if that ends up changing. right now i don't know if that's affecting people's opinions.

>> and of course this is the day that congress comes back and we're going to have to see whether nancy pelosi can handle this amazing seesaw between moderates and progressives on what to do about infrastructure on the house side and that's not even getting to the senate. mark murray, it's such a pleasure to see you. i haven't seen you forever. >> it's been a long time. >> welcome back. and a key adviser to president trump, the role played in the delay of getting affidavit gans out of the country. stay with us, this is "andrew mitchell reports" on msnbc. bc

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. we're now learning new kfgs about how the process to get our allies out. they say steven miller peddled ray sis hysteria as the trump administration was taking steps to negotiate a plan that would leave those allies behind. so former president trump is wrong ri lit siding what is going on now claiming he would have done a better job at evacuating refugees. how was the process handled?

>> yeah, it is lewd chris for him to go around saying he would have handled this better. he has four years as president to get them through the system. that system was destroyed because of his main enenabler and under neat that cap there are others, and it was critical because you see a lot of people did not get through the crisis

system. but we would not be having a system that is already challenging with thousands of people doing, it, is not meant to evacuate thousands of people at once if they had been properly processed to begin with. >> and tell me what went on internally when there was memos, in fact, at what miller was peddling. and he was the white house aides very close to president trump until the end, fiercely anti-immigration. >> yes, these were staunch anti-refugee people. i met with ngos that were having issues. refugee resettlement agencies that worked closely with the offices that could not figure out what was going on. there would be meetings on this topic. stephen miller would cut people out of it, and top military

brass would push back on it, they would write memos, i remember when he could not attend a cabinet level meeting. he knows he cannot be there personally and he goes on record having can distributed because he knew what was on going. and i saw this start off when the administration first came into office. >> and this is is the former defense attorney, and he was

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