hour. i'll see you tomorrow on nbc news now starting at noon eastern and right back here at 3:00 p.m. eastern. "deadline white house" starts right now. hi, everyone, it is 4:00 in the east. i'm alicia menendez in for nicolle wallace. the mission in afghanistan now a race against the clock. at least 21,000 people have been flown out in the past 24 hours. that's more than at any point in the mission. in total, 58,700 americans and afghans have been evacuated since august 14th. this hour the president will announce that the united states is sticking to its deadline of withdrawing all forces from afghanistan by august 31st. we're going to bring you his remarks live when they happen. one official telling nbc news that the situation is fluid and things could still change. quote, we think we can be done

by august 31 if all stays on track. but if a terror attack shuts down the airport or if the taliban prevents americans or our visa holders, et cetera, from coming, then we may need more time. the administration had been facing intense pressure to keep troops past the august 31st deadline not just from western allies who pressed the president in an emergency meeting of the g-7 earlier today, but also from allies in congress. some of whom say it is unlikely the u.s. will complete the mission in the next seven days. here's house intelligence committee chair adam schiff on monday. >> i think it's possible, but i think it's very unlikely given the number of americans who still need to be evacuated, the number of sivs, the number of others who are members of the afghan press, civil society leaders, women leaders. it's hard for me to imagine all of that can be accomplished between now and the end of the month. >> of course extending the

deadline would have put the u.s. on a track towards conflict with the taliban. a spokesman reiterated today the group would reject any attempts to delay the withdrawal of u.s. forces. that's despite news first reported by "the washington post" that cia william burns secretly met with the de facto leader of the taliban in kabul on monday. "the post" describing the meeting like this. quote, president biden sdpachld his top spy, a veteran of the foreign service and most decorated diplomat in his cabinet. amid a frantic effort to evacuate people in what biden has called one of the largest, most difficult airlifts in history. the cia declined to comment on the taliban meeting but discussions are likely to have involved an impending august 31 deadline for the u.s. military to conclude its airlift of u.s. citizens and afghan allies and that is where we begin today. joining us now, anne gearan, an msnbc contributor. also with us msnbc international

affairs analyst, former u.s. russia ambassador, michael mcfaul. the u.s. administration under a ton of pressure to extend the deadline. they chose not to. what is the current thinking inside the administration? >> well, alicia, the thinking is that the president, it appears that all or almost all of the americans that the administration believes are in afghanistan who want to leave will be able to do so by august 31st. there are a couple of complications, including that universe of people is not a precise number. the state department does not know exactly how many americans are in the country. they have a pretty good idea. nor how many of that group would want to leave. that said, the administration is quite confident that it could take care of that part of the task. beyond that, the risks rise

every day that the u.s. forces are on the ground. those risks rise exponentially after august 31st. what the president decided to do today is stick to that august 31st deadline unless there is some other huge development that forces a change to that calendar. that was a disappointment, as you also noted in your opening, but one he plans to stick to. >> i do want to ask you about those western leaders. what have you been hearing from them? >> well, i mean we've heard a little bit. a number of those leaders issued readouts or their foreign ministries issued readouts after the meeting that the statement, the joint statement among the seven leaders had a note of resignation to it. it did not come out and say anything very specific about the august 31st deadline but talked about the duty to help those who helped us. it talked about what happens after the foreign forces leave

and what kinds of challenges face the world as it deals with a taliban-led afghanistan, drew down some markers for the taliban for what they should do if they want international recognition. but it was clear that president biden had said it and they weren't going to argue publicly. >> michael, what does it say to you that the administration sent its top spy to talk to them? >> well, i call him our top diplomat. he's only been a spy for several months. he's been a diplomat for three decades. he's the best we have. i know bill burns well, i've known him for a long time. i think it was a really smart decision for the president to send bill. these are the assignments that he does well. number two, it shows me that we are talking quietly about extending the 31st deadline and i think it's wise and prudent. i think it's fantastic what the

biden administration has done so far. 57,000, 58,000 people out in a couple of weeks. that is a remarkable achievement. plan a failed. plan b on the evacuation is succeeding. that's why i'm nervous about having an artificial deadline. yes, we should get the americans out first. that seems like we'll be able to do that before august 31st. but there's two more circles. there's the sivs, the special immigrant visas. those are people that worked for the u.s. embassy, and then there's the p-2 list. that's the much larger community of afghans that worked for american ngos. they worked for us. they were paid by us, u.s. taxpayers. and that group is extremely nervous about getting out by august 31st. and i hope that we will adjust so that we finish the mission when it's done, not just by some artificial deadline. >> michael, nbc's richard engle who is on the ground in kabul tweeted today american troops

and taliban working just yards apart at perimeter of kabul airport. at a quick glance, it is hard to tell them apart. similar uniforms, weapons, kevlar, eye protection. they're not pointing guns at each other, they're working to coordinate/secure entry to airport. it seems taliban doing what they can to speed up the u.s. withdrawal, get the americans out and stop the exodus from the airport. he's also reporting the situation on the ground seems to be calmer than before. are we watching american interests converge with the taliban's desire to have the u.s. exit? >> that's a great question. and i want to underscore i'm not an expert on the taliban. but think about two really important things here. the people that we are evacuating are the very people that the taliban doesn't want in their country. these are troublemakers from their point of view. women's activists, ngo leaders, they're glad to see them leave. number two, this deadline is artificial.

i want everybody to understand. go back and read the doha agreement, look at that and say are the taliban adhering to the doha agreement? they're not adhering to that agreement. therefore, why do we? and number two, think about it from the taliban's perspective. everybody is assuming come september 1 they're going to start attacking american soldiers. i want to challenge that proposition, that hypothesis. i think it would not be in their interests because they know that they would be bombed by the greatest air force on the planet today if they did so, and, therefore, i think actually subtly our interests are aligned on getting this evacuation done to the very end. >> and of course if you are just joining us, we are expecting the president to speak within the hour. anne, your sense of what we are going to hear from him, specifically as it relates to setting expectations. that is so much of what we have spoken about in the past week, even if he says we are staying until the 31st as we expect him to, is he going to leave some room for the fluidity we keep

hearing his administration officials talk about? >> yes, alicia, what we think he's going to say is a recommitment to the august 31st deadline but an acknowledgement that there could potentially be a need for contingency planning that would take u.s. forces out beyond that deadline. it's a little bit of a foot in both camps, frankly, and it's not terribly different from what the administration has been saying for days now. it's just that it comes in the context of rising pressure on the president to formally extend that deadline and essentially throw down a gauntlet to the taliban and say we need more time, what are you going to do about it. that is not a negotiation that they want to have in public. i think ambassador mcfaul is right, that that had to have been a major reason that bill burns was sent to talk quietly with the taliban leader. but if that conversation had resulted in a new agreement for five extra days or whatever, we

would know that by now and we don't. >> michael, i want to read for you some reporting on what the taliban takeover means for the jihadist movement. this is from "the new yorker." the taliban takeover is the biggest boost to al qaeda since 9/11 and a global game-changer for jihadism generally. rita katz, a leading tracker of extremist activity worldwide told me there is a universal recognition that al qaeda can now reinvest in afghanistan as a safe haven. jihadism effectively has a new homeland, the first since the collapse of the isis caliphate in march 2019. michael, understanding that you are not an expert in the taliban but you are an expert in diplomacy, what options, if any, does the united states have, bigger picture? >> well, first of all, that's the short-term reaction. i agree with that. but i want to question whether that will be true in three or five years from now. i do not know that this will be

the hot bed of al qaeda resurgence in afghanistan. and the taliban, i do know people that have worked for the taliban in the last several years, including in the negotiations. they are not exactly the same organization as 20 years ago. but most importantly, afghan society is not the same society that they were when the taliban took over in 1996. and maybe state building failed and army building failed, but that decades of transformation has not gone away. they're going to have their hands full negotiating a government and governing within afghanistan. and so i would just say everybody should have a little bit of humility about predicting the future three to five years out in afghanistan today. i most certainly do, and i think there could be other scenarios that would be much more positive for american national interests than the inevitability of this becoming a jihadist hot bed. in the short term, yes, but maybe not in the long term. >> and i welcome any context you

can offer as to how the white house is thinking about that bigger, longer term question. >> the short answer is that they say they have it taken care of by being able to come in and do what they need to do as a counterterrorism mission from outside of afghanistan. that does -- i think as ambassador mcfaul is alluding to, that's a short-term proposition. that means, yes, we do have drones, we have long-range capabilities. we all kinds of other things we could do from a ring of countries and bases that are quite a ways away but still within flying range of afghanistan. it doesn't take into account and we have not heard the white house say very much about what happens if afghanistan becomes a recruiting tool, if it again becomes a haven for extra territorial groups, transnational groups that are bent on attacking not only the

united states homeland, which is hard to do, but americans as they walk around the world. that could happen sometime out. it's not going to be in three to six months, it's more likely to be a matter of years. the biden administration knows that that's a possibility, but they really have not yet said very much about what they would do to prevent it. >> i want to talk about one more piece of that, and that is all of these afghan refugees who are coming to the united states. nbc news spoke with a 14-year-old, she's the daughter of an afghan interpreter. she's now in virginia after getting out of kabul. here's some of what she said. >> yeah, it was a nightmare. it was really horrible. it was very scary seeing -- trying to escape from the taliban, from the terrorists. the taliban were outside of our house. when we made it, we got the news that the taliban was under our apartment. so if we were there for five more minutes, we would have met the taliban and who knows what would have happened.

we had to stay on a plane for seven hours. funny story, my mom fainted. then my aunt fainted. then my other aunt fainted. so three of my aunts fainted. after the three of my aunts, i fainted. >> michael, we are going to hear more in the days and weeks ahead from people who have lived through this. there is a very long road ahead for them. >> well, there is, but it's a good reminder that these are human beings, these are people that allied with us for decades in a common struggle inside afghanistan and we can't just leave them behind. yes, it wasn't a funny story, it was a tragic story that that happened, but they're now out. those are people that are going to contribute to american society as all refugees from other war-torn countries have. look at the people from vietnam who have contributed to our society, so let's not leave them behind at this critical moment. i think that is a very

encouraging story. they're out but there are tens of thousands still there. literally in the last 24 hours, i've been in touch with three american ngos with their people on the ground that do not have a way out. we have to get those people out before we leave afghanistan. >> to your point, a funny story only in the parlance of teens. as michael said, this is about people. we can never lose track about the fact that this is about people, they are the ones being impacted. as this unfolds, this is going to be a conversation about asylum and refugee status in the united states. what is that going to look like? >> we're already starting to see that. and it's frankly not particularly appealing politically, political picture at the moment. you have the white house trying to straddle its obligations and its sort of political imperatives here. first of which is, again, in the president's own words protect

u.s. forces and u.s. lives in afghanistan now. the secondary imperative is to help those who helped us. time is running short for them to be able to do that. and then beyond that, you know, to try to help as many other people who are vulnerable. and that is what you're seeing happen now. yes, the numbers are impressive. tens of thousands that u.s. and allies that have been able to get out so far. that guarantees that tens of thousands who would go if they could will be left behind. how many of those come to the united states becomes a political argument. you're already starting to see some republican lawmakers and local republican officials saying that they don't want large tides of refugees coming. they don't have much to worry about, there won't be large tides of refugees coming, but there will be some. biden is going to be in a bit of a political predicament in explaining to some parts of his

own constituency, there are some democrats in that group, but also in trying to work on a bipartisan matter with republicans to try to say why he wants to bring more refugees here and to really make that case for the continued open arms that the united states has long had for refugees in a time when that has become politically less appealing to a lot of people in the united states. >> truly incredible that we would even have to make that case. anne gearan, ambassador michael mcfaul, thank you both for starting us off. we'll watch for those remarks from president biden at the white house likely sometime in this hour. we'll bring those to you when he begins. also ahead, congress is wrapping up a busy day with a number of high-profile bills on their agenda. one, of course, the voting rights bill. congresswoman sheila jackson lee who was arrested last month for protesting over the urgency of passing the bill, she joins on the importance of today's vote and where it goes next. later in the show,

investigating the insurrection. lawmakers want to get a look at phone records related to the attack. that includes from some members of congress. all those stories and more when "deadline white house" continues after this. this ♪ (vo) the rule in business used to be, "location, location, location." now it's, "network, network, network." so you need a network that's built right. verizon business unlimited starts with america's most reliable network. then we add the speed of verizon 5g. we provide security that's made for business and offer plans as low as $30 per line. more businesses choose verizon than any other network. we are open and ready for you. i'm so glad you're ok, sgt. houston. this is sam with usaa. do you see the tow truck? yes, thank you, that was fast. sgt. houston never expected this to happen. or that her grandpa's dog tags would be left behind. but that one call got her a tow and rental...

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for courage. >> this floor belongs to the american people. this floor is a floor that john lewis has often challenged us and called upon us to be courageous. hr-4 is going to save the day. not partisan, but make us a democratic republic, and we need to pass hr-4 because john lewis said do you have any courage. >> joining us now, congresswoman sheila jackson lee of texas and eddie glaude, chair of the department of african studies at princeton university and an msnbc contributor. representative jackson lee a reporter tweeted earlier this morning, the democratic caucus meeting emotional, as congressman clyburn teared up speaking about his parents' experience. can you talk to us about the mood inside the caucus? >> resolve and resilience. remembering history. so many of us knew john lewis and became his friend not only in his years of civil rights but in his time in the united states

congress. and i for one was reminded of the many years that i walked across the edmund pettus bridge with john but the many years that he reminded us of the blood he shed on that bridge. there are other aspects of what we are doing. the build back better act, all crucial. but everyone knows deep in their soul that this is embedded in the constitution. that was the feeling, that we had a duty, an obligation. i can tell you after the big lie and the insurrection, 49 states have passed suppressive voting laws or getting ready to do so, denying people the right to vote and we are committed that that will not stand. >> eddie, this is not a new conversation. we were talking about pulling sound from john lewis. there's sound from 2012, right, almost ten years ago of john lewis taking on this question of voting rights. let's take a listen. >> the right to vote, the right

to participate, to cast a vote, as i said before and so many times, it's precious. almost sacred. people died for this right. we thought we solved that issue with the voting rights act of 1965. and why now during this election year we must fight this issue all over again. if we fail to remember the past, we will repeat the history. we don't want to go back. we want to go forward. and that's what we must do. the only thing i did during the '60s, i gave a little blood for the right to vote. some of my friends and colleagues, three young men that i knew gave their very lives. >> eddie, it doesn't matter how many times i hear that, it kind of hits the same every time. i've had the incredible privilege of spending time with john lewis, of interviewing john lewis. i'm sure you have.

one of the things that strikes me about him, about his legacy, is that even after all he has seen, even after all he had lived through, he maintained this deep sense of hope that a better future was possible. i wonder where we are supposed to be looking for those well springs of hope today? >> well, you know, alicia, it seems to me very clear that america is more than an idea, it's an argument. it's an argument that has been made through flesh and blood. and john lewis in so many ways, his life represents this fierce argument that we must be truly a multi-racial democracy. i think this is really important for us to understand that our democracy is at stake with hr-4. our democracy is at stake when we think about all of the states that are trying -- the republican party -- the state republican parties that are trying to in some ways roll back the franchise. and so i think it's really important for democrats to make the argument that this is not

just simply about voting rights for people of color, this is not just simply voting rights for young folk, it's really about the country at large. it's about our democracy in so many ways. >> it's about our democracy and a fundamental question of who we are. representative jackson lee, as i look for those glimmers of hope, this caught my eye from "the washington post." north carolina judges ordered the restoration of voting rights for thousands of people with a felony conviction in what advocates call the largest expansion of voting rights in decades in the state. under state law individuals are prohibited from voting until they are fully discharged from probation, parole or a suspended sentence, often years after they were released from prison. monday's ruling could make north carolina the only state in the south to automatically restore voting rights to people after they leave prison. representative, should americans be looking to the judicial system for real movement here? well, what i can say is if people -- if the american people

are left to their own devices, their own will, their own sense of justice, you will see this clock moving. it is legislators or wedded to this ugly lie that continue to suppress the rights of all americans. the 15th amendment said no right shall be abridged. it happens to be the right of an american citizen to vote. how are they going to stand up against the constitution. the judge only adhered to the constitution. these individuals the done their time so they were reenfranchised. we have state laws that insist on people never getting to vote because of something they did many, many years ago. this is what the john lewis bill will do along with s-1, h-1. it will give voting back to the people. i tell you that the time is now. it is a historic moment. i just got through meeting with the speaker of the house and the texas democratic delegates who came here, remained here to insist that they were not going to let texas continue to be the worst state to vote in in the entire nation and to continue the suppression that seems to be the will of the people today, the republicans today.

not all, but the republicans today that have tried to kidnap justice in our state. so this bill and our attitude and john lewis' words of wisdom challenge about the precious right to vote, about blood, and, yes, the long lineage, the long list of those who died in the civil rights movement. i'll be reminded of that today again when i speak on the floor of the house that if we do nothing, if we do nothing, america will not be the america that will be the democratic republic, it will just be a place where people come and see their rights extinguished. we cannot do that because a vote is a voice and a voice is their vote. we're committed, the democrats are committed. we hope there will be some republicans that will vote for us. we hope the senate will move expeditiously and quickly. this is a moment in history where we cannot, we cannot miss and we cannot delay and we cannot stop moving. >> eddie, i come back to this question of courage that representative jackson lee talked about in her floor

speech. do you think we are going to see that level of courage from the u.s. senate? >> well, there's no evidence that suggests that senator manchin or sinema will change their minds around the filibuster. i don't see a path forward unless there is an honest and open conversation about a carve-out. this is political theater in so many ways. it's something that needs to happen. but we have democrats, not just republicans, we have democrats who are standing in the way here. and we're going to have to put pressure -- bring pressure to bear on them if we're going to fundamentally change the situation on the ground. >> congresswoman sheila jackson lee, thank you for spending some time with us. eddie glaude is sticking with us. more and more companies are announcing new covid vaccine mandates following the news of full approval of the pfizer vaccine. will it be enough to get this virus under control? dr. anthony fauci with a sobering warning that it could still be months away. months awy

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if we get the overwhelming majority of those 80 to 90 million people who are not yet been vaccinated, who have been reluctant to get vaccinated or have not had the opportunity, i believe we can see light at the end of the tunnel. it's going to depend on us, it really is. it's in our hands, our fate is in our own hands. i've said a couple of times if we do it right and get through

the winter, i hope as we get to the spring of 2022, we'll be there. i hope so. it's up to us. >> that was dr. anthony fauci this morning on the "today" show saying that the end of the pandemic is up to all of us. everyone gets vaccinated, the country just may be able to get ahold of covid-19 by next spring. with the fda formally approving the pfizer vaccine, medical officials are hoping that some who are skeptical about the vaccine will now be less reluctant to take it. helping with that, companies, schools, organizations are all going forward with vaccine mandates. something jeff zeintz says the administration backs. they have seen a dramatic increase of people getting their first shots, more than 70% since mid-july. let's bring in jonathan lemire. eddie glaude is back with us. eddie, on one hand you have these vaccine mandates in washington state, in new york city, in new jersey where you and i both live for schools, and

then you have states like florida and texas banning mask mandates. i mean we watched it feels to me like this initial swing from republican governors in southern states and now we're seeing democratic leaders pull in the other direction. how does that change the contours of this national conversation around covid? >> well, i don't know if it changes the contours. in my own home state of mississippi, we're seeing over 20,000 kids quarantined, over 5,000 kids have contracted covid, so we still see those divides in interesting sorts of ways. covid-19 has been a blue dye into the body politic revealing our illnesses and sicknesses in so many ways. one of the problems we face is selfishness and a certain kind of self-centeredness that has resulted in people opting out of any perception of the public good threatens our democracy and

we're seeing that right now. so the mandates are important. i think they will convince those who were hesitant who needed full authorization. but the mandate is not going to resolve that deeper divide that's being revealed in this moment around vaccinations that we're experiencing right now. >> i wonders if anything if it puts it into starker relief. jonathan, what does it mean politically that date fauci gave us, spring 2022. what is the white house saying about how they set and manage expectations around a situation that is admittedly just very fluid? >> no question. we've obviously had shifting target dates, alicia, because of the delta variant and just how contagious it is. we all remember it was july 4th that the president declared the nation's independence from the virus for the most part and of course things are a lot bleaker now than they were then. we've seen cases rise, hospitalizations rise, deaths rise in parts of the country. i think that's key here that it is in his words a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

we're hearing mixed signals somewhat from the white house in terms of timetable here. just today in fact dr. fauci thought that a vaccine could be approved for use for children between ages 5 and 12 by late fall. but his colleague at nih, francis collins, suggested it might not be until early '22. that is something that so many parents are concerned about. and there's no sense as to when a vaccine will be ready for those who are under the age of 5. you know, certainly there's a real focus here as school begins in much of the country over the next few weeks to try to safeguard those schools, a key part to the nation's reopening and recovery from this pandemic. but this virus will be here for a while and we hear real stark urgings from the white house and public health officials to get people to get those vaccines. they are encouraged. the numbers are up in those states where the vaccination rate previously had been low, but there's a long way to go and a lot of danger still ahead. >> eddie, we're all trying to

understand the why. you painted some of it for us. two reporters went to the town of mountain home, arkansas. i want you to take a listen to what they heard from one man in the e.r. >> i'm more of a libertarian and i don't like being told what i have to do. i probably should have had a little healthier here. it needs to be taken more seriously. i mean, i don't know how close i am to being a lot worse. i really don't know. >> christopher green died nine days after this interview. he was 53 years old. >> the reporters who did that piece, they talk about misinformation as the reporter says, a preference for hearsay. all of it incredibly devastating. and then there was this teen who decided to get vaccinated. take a listen. >> i have a parent who does not

necessarily support vaccinations. it was hard because she asked me where i was going. i was like i'm going to get vaccinated. and she was not very happy with that. people should be more concerned about the well-being of those around them because i feel like not enough people are thinking about other people when they make the decision not to get the vaccine. >> eddie, the journalist who produced those clips says this is what freedom looks like in america. even those people working in that hospital, some of them hesitant to get vaccinated. what's your take from hearing these people talk, some of them regretting their choice to not get vaccinated earlier, and then that teen saying i went around my mom and did this anyway. >> right. so, you know, we've always faced this challenge in the united states. we see this as early as the two volumes on democracy in america where he talks about a kind of individualism that leads to a kind of pulling out of public life, thinking that one is self-secure, that one has built a society that is only

responsible to one self. and it has this corrosive effect on the body politic. so to describe it as libertarian is a generous gesture. it's a politics of selfishness that runs smack up against our effort to respond to the pandemic. and so part of what we have to do, i think, in really direct terms is address this ideology for the last 40 years and the information ecosystem, alicia, that has made all of this possible. but at the same time we need loved ones like that young girl, like that young woman, who will defy their parents ideological beliefs and get vaccinated and serve as an example for their communities. but again, this is an insight into the deep ideological divisions that define the country and threaten our democracy. >> eddie glaude, thank you for spending time with us. jonathan lemire, you are sticking with us. we are still waiting for those remarks from president biden on the mission in afghanistan.

up next, she is now the first woman governor of the state of new york. kathy hochul vowing to change the culture and the way things are done in albany. we'll talk with another leader in the state who has not ruled out running for that office herself. stay with us. herself. stay with us trading isn't just a hobby. it's your future. so you don't lose sight of the big picture, even when you're focused on what's happening right now. and thinkorswim trading™ is right there with you. to help you become a smarter investor. with an innovative trading platform

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people who put us in these offices. and i take that very seriously. >> an historic moment on a historic day. that was madam governor kathy hochul sworn in at midnight. she is, of course, a woman. if it shocks you that it took this long for that to happen, consider the bigger picture. hochul's swearing-in brings the total number of women in governor positions across the 50 states to nine. believe it or not, that ties the record for most at one time in american history. the associated press goes on a century after women gained the right to vote. 19 states still have never been led by a woman, 19. that includes some of the most populist states such as california, florida, pennsylvania and illinois. joining us now, new york state senator allisandra.

first your reaction to what the governor just said, she wants to restore people's faith in government. what does she need to do to get it done. >> first of all, thank you for having me. it is an historic day in new york and it is remarkable that it has taken this long but also i feel an incredible amount of relief and excitement that there is a female leading our state at the highest office. i think that means she has to not only have ethics training for staff members who are part of the executive branch but she needs to bring a drastically different type and style of leadership to albany, one that includes accountability. it's not just about the training but if you have violated laws, especially ethics laws, then you should not be able to have the privilege of serving or being part of the government that is supposed to be the leader across the country and across the world that really shows people what progressivism is. i think that's one way.

i think it also means that she has an overhaul in terms of the people who are leftovers from cuomo's administration. notably she said she would be keeping on some of the key members, the department of health commissioner for 45 days. i think after those 45 days we have to see a brand new type of style when it comes to the department of health and obviously other places. we also want to make sure that she is not only supported by members of the legislature but really understands what is at stake not only today but in the coming months when it comes to covid relief and leadership. so i think she has a lot on her plate but i really do think that she's up for the task. >> a full plate indeed. senator, on the topic of women in high office, this month we are celebrating the 101st anniversary of the 19th amendment and yet this from the publication, the 19th. kathy hochul's rise in new york spotlights the barriers to women becoming governors. of the 44 women who served as governor before hochul, 11 got

the position through rules and state constitutions that made them next in line as governor when the current office holder was no longer able to serve. separately, three women governors between the 1920s and 1960s replaced their spouses. there have been at least 1,000 men governors according to a general estimate from the eagleton center on the american government. those numbers are pretty striking. what do they tell you? >> well, i think that they tell me women really have not been believed to be the ones who are in the executive positions. there's an imaginary bias, so to speak. but i think that having a woman, kathy hochul, be the governor of new york in a state that if it were a nation would be the ninth largest economy in the world. there is so much power in the state of new york. frankly, again, the state of new york is a representative model, i think, of what other countries and states will do. and so i think on the one hand, all the statistics that you just

read are very depressing. on the other hand, i think that the 19 remaining states that have never had a female governor can look to new york now and say we see it in new york. we see it in ourselves. we are going to run and also the people who will be voting for the people who run can actually believe that a woman not only can hold the highest office but will impact the ability to effectively lead the highest office because ultimately that's what it comes down to. in new york and in our state's history, the decisions in albany have mostly been made by three men in a room that. no longer is the case. in fact now we are going to have two women and two people of color at the top leadership roles in new york. and so we know that gender equity is not reached overnight. it's going to take a lot of time. but this is historic. and because of the power and just the enormity of what new york represents in the world and on the world stage, i think that this will be a game-changer across the board. >> and now of course i have to ask about you, senator biaggi.

you recently confirmed to tara rosenbloom that you are considering a run for governor in 2022. what would convince you to make that leap? how close are you to deciding? >> so i want to be very clear with all of your listeners and everyone who is watching right now that i am not i am not runn governor, and i am fully committed to making sure that this governor has not only the support of myself but also my colleagues and that we give this governor a good-faith effort to make sure that she succeeds. i think that down the road or later in life it is something to certainly think about, but, again, i think it is a moment that really just causes many of us to pause. i don't think that there's a majority of people in the legislature who have functioned under a normal government, and i think that's an important thing for people to know. but i think that this moment really just reflects how much just gravity and how much effort has been made to make sure that albany actually is reflective of what new york really represents in terms of its values. so we'll see at a later date, but right now i'm very much

looking forward to working with governor, madam governor kathy hochul as the first female governor of new york >> all right. new york state senator alessandra biaggi, thank you for your time and joining us. we will be right back after this. >> thank you. hank you and our customers rated us #1 for network quality in america according to j.d. power. number one in reliability, 16 times in a row. most awarded for network quality, 27 times in a row. proving once again that nobody builds networks like verizon. that's why we're building 5g right, that's why there's only one best network. helen knew exercise could help her diabetes... but she didn't know what was right for her. no. nope. no way. but then helen went from no to know with freestyle libre 14 day, now she knows what activity helps lower her glucose.

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>> well, i think we'll hear a continued statistic of what we've seen on twitter and other places from the white house on the number of evacuees that have left afghanistan. i think, you know, credit where credit is due. i think they've taken a lot of criticism on the last two weeks, or week and a half of this withdrawal, but what you have seen really in the last week and a half is a significant number of people that have left. i think you will also begin to talk through this august 31st deadline, and i think messaging with the american people what this means. i hope that the white house understands they will be judged in the medium and long term not on whether we get out august 31st or september 3rd, but how these next two -- sorry, how the next week goes as relates to the safety of americans and getting as many afghans as we can out. >> jonathan lemire, do you get the sense that's how the white house is thinking about it?

>> yes, we do. i mean they -- they have -- there was a message today. they are going to say they're still confident of getting americans out by the august 31st deadline, which to be clear is a self-imposed deadline. we have heard, and my colleagues and i at the associated press have reported this today, that the president agreed to stick to that deadline. he has also asked his national security advisers and those at the pentagon to come up with contingency plans in case the u.s. president needs to extend it by a few days in order to get more americans and our afghan allies out. there is real concern. the taliban has made clear they want the united states to hold to that august 31st deadline, and if we don't there will be consequences and they will not allow more transit to the airport and there could be, administration officials feel, real danger to any u.s. military still on the ground after that deadline. this is something where the president is clear that he believes it is time for american's mission in afghanistan to end and does

think, and his aides believe, as we have some distance from this, particularly if the evacuations continue apace and they've been better in recent days, more and more people getting out, if that continues to be a success and most americans, all americans and most afghans are able to get out, that as the months go by people will look back on this and this will become something that held in much higher regard, he was able to end this war, something his predecessors were not able to do. right now it needs to get done and it is politically dangerous for this president as well as, of course, a humanitarian crisis for those still over there. >> if you are just joining us we are waiting on the president to offer remarks on afghanistan. robert gibbs, given the fluidity of the situation outlined by jonathan, how does the president set expectations with the american public? >> well, look, i think the american public wants to be talked to in a forthright and honest manner. i think that's what is really important here, is to understand

and for the president to help the people understand how this process has improved, how it is going to continue to go. what are the risks, as jonathan talked about, of the troops that we already have there and how that risk increases as we get closer to the 31st. look, my hunch is, too, that what you are going to hear from the president is the beginnings, quite frankly, of messages intended for the taliban in terms of, you know, if reare holding on the august 31st date what i think that is is providing leverage to go back to the taliban and say, if you want us to keep that date then we need some safety and security in moving people out now. if they don't cooperate in allowing people to leave, then the likelihood is that american forces will be there a few days longer. >> okay. again, we are still waiting for the president to deliver his remarks on afghanistan. our thanks to robert gibbs and jonathan lemire. the next hour of "deadline: white house" with chris jansing starts right now.

♪ ♪ hello, everyone. it is 5:00 in the east. i'm chris jansing in for nicolle wallace. we are as you know watching the white house because any moment we are expecting the president to deliver those remarks. we've been waiting for them much of the day, on the situation in afghanistan. president biden expected to officially announce he is maintaining the august 31st deadline to withdraw the last american troops, ending our 20-year involvement in afghanistan. but white house officials did tell nbc news the president told them to continue to have a contingency to stay longer if needed to finish the mission. for example, if the taliban stop cooperating. biden's decision is a momentous one with the deadline only a week away. as nbc reports, quote, the military advised biden he needed to make a decision on whether to extend the withdrawal deadline by tuesday in order to allow enough time for the roughly 6,000 troops and the small number of embassy staff to

leave, according to two u.s. officials. although biden has committed to evacuating all americans who wish to leave as well as afghan allies, it is unclear if he will be able to up hold that promise on such a tight timeline. meanwhile, the pace of evacuations from kabul has accelerated in recent days. according to the latest figures from the white house, nearly 22,000 were flown out in the past 24 hours, and the u.s. has evacuated almost 59,000 people since the airlift began on august 14th. biden's announcement follows new reporting in "the washington post" underscoring how the white house views the severity of the situation. quote, cia director william j. burns held a secret meeting in kabul on monday with the taliban's de facto leader baradar in the highest level face-to-face encounter between the taliban and the biden administration since militants seized the afghan capital, according to u.s. officials familiar with the matter who

spoke anonymous reply. that's where we begin. joining us, john hudson, national security reporter for "the washington post." with us, former cia director john brennan, now an msnbc senior national security analyst. former congresswoman donna edwards, contributing columnist for "the washington post" as well as an msnbc contributor. great to have all of you here. there is so much to talk about. again, as soon as we see the president we will go to him, but let me ask you first, director brennan, based on what we know that the president has decided to stick to the timeline with a contingency plan, what do you make of it? >> well, i think it is appropriate that president biden maintain the publicly announced objective of getting all of our troops as well as all u.s. citizens and those who we worked with out of afghanistan by august 31st. i think the coming days will determine whether or not there needs to be any adjustment to that. i think his purpose is to send a signal to the taliban we are doing everything possible to evacuate these personnel as

quickly as possible, but also i think he needs to take stock of where we are going to be in the coming days and whether or not that august 31st deadline is going to be a viable one. i am always a supporter of doing things based on conditions on the ground rather than based on a calendar, but, again, he is very interested in trying to ensure the safe and secure evacuation of all americans and our partners and allies by the 31st. >> let me ask you, and you will pardon me if i interrupt you if the president does happen to come out, director brennan, but what do you make of the meeting? what do you make of sending in the cia director? what does it tell you? >> it says the president is serious about sending a very senior and experienced emissary to talk to the taliban to make sure that they understand exactly what the u.s. position is. i don't know if bill burns was carrying a separate message about something in particular that they wanted the taliban to cooperate on, but bill burns has extensive experience on afghanistan. he's one of our nation's most

accomplished diplomats and he also has the expertise of the cia at his disposal. it is a very serious signal to the taliban that this administration wants to move forward and we're going to engage with them as necessary, again, to ensure the safe and secure evacuation of u.s. personnel and allies. >> and here comes the president of the united states speaking about the situation in afghanistan. let's listen. >> before i update you on the meeting that i had with leaders of the g7 earlier today, i want to say a word about the progress we're making on the build back better agenda here at home. i just got off the telephone with the leaders in the house. today the house of representatives has taken significant step toward making historic investment. it is going to transform america, cut taxes for working families and position the american economy for long-term,

long-term growth. when i became president it was clear that we had to confront an immediate economic crisis, the most significant recession we've had since the depression, or at least since johnson. but we weren't going -- but that wasn't going to be enough. we also had to make some long-term investments in americans and america itself. the first thing we did was to write and pass the american rescue plan, and it is working. our economy has added 4 million jobs in my first six months in office. economic growth is up to the fastest it has been, the fastest rate in 40 years, and unemployment is coming down. right now our economy growth is leading the world's advanced economies, but to win the future we need to take the next step. today the house of representatives did just that. today's vote in the house allowed them to consider my build back better agenda, a broad framework to make housing more affordable, bring down the

cost of prescription drugs by giving medicare the power to negotiate lower prices for drugs, make elder care more affordable, provide two years of free universal high-quality pre-k and two years of free community college. provide clean energy tax credits. continue to give the middle class families the well-deserved tax cut for daycare and health care that they deserve. allowing a lot of women to get back to work primarily. and provide significant monthly tax cuts for working families with children through the child care tax credit. these investments are going to lower out-of-pocket expenses for families, and not just give them a little more breathing room. in addition we are going to make long overdue, much-needed investments in basic hard infrastructure in this nation. this scenario where we have broad bipartisan agreement to invest in our antiquated roads, highways, bridges, transit, drinking water systems, broadband, clean energy,

environmental cleanup, and making our infrastructure more resilient to the climate crisis and so much more. this is all paid for. instead of giving every break in the world to corporations and ceos -- by the way, 55 of our largest companies in america paid zero dollars in federal taxes on more than $40 billion in profit last year. we can ask corporations and the very wealthy just to pay their fair share. they can still be very wealthy. they can still make a lot of money, but just begin to pay their fair share. so we can invest in making our country stronger and more competitive, create jobs and raise wages, and lift up the standard of living for everyone. the bottom line is, in my view, we're a step closer to truly investing in the american people, positioning our economy for long-term growth, and building an america that out competes the rest of the world.

my goal is to build the economy from the bottom up and the middle out, not just the top down. that's what we're on the way of doing. i want to thank speaker pelosi who was masterful in her leadership on this, leader hoyer and clyburn, the entire leadership team for the hard work, dedication and determination to bring people together so we can make a difference in people's lives. i also want to thank every democrat in the house who worked so hard over the past few weeks to reach an agreement and who supported the process for house consideration of the jobs and infrastructure plan, the build back better effort. there were differences, strong points of view. they're always welcome. what is important is that we came together to advance our agenda. i think everyone who did that -- i think everyone, everyone who did it was there. look, i also want to thank everyone who voted to support the john lewis voting rights act. you know, advancing -- it is an act to restore and expand voting

protections, to prevent voter suppression, and to secure the most sacred of american rights, the right to vote freely, the right to vote fairly and the right to have your vote counted. the house has acted. the senate also has to join them to send this important bill to my desk. the senate has to move forward on the people's act, critical legislation to protect our democracy and the right to vote. we need both of those election bills. let me now turn to afghanistan. i met this morning with my counterparts in the g7 as well as heads of the united nations, nato and the european union. i expressed my thanks for the solidarity we have seen as we've stood up an unprecedented global effort. i updated our partners on the significant progress we made in the past ten days. as of this afternoon we've helped evacuate 70,700 people

just since august the 14th. 75,900 people since the end of july. just in the past 12 hours another 19 u.s. military flights, 18 c-17s and one c-130 carrying approximately 6,400 evacuees and 31 coalition flights carrying 5,600 people have left kabul, just in the last 12 hours. the total of 50 more flights, 12,000 more people since i updated you this morning. these numbers are a testament to the efforts of our brave service women and men, to our diplomats on the ground in kabul, and to our allies still standing with us. we had a productive discussion. there was strong agreement among the leaders, both about the evacuation mission underway as well as the need to coordinate our approach to afghanistan as we move forward.

first, on evacuation, we agree that we will continue to close -- our close cooperation to get people out as efficiently and safely as possible. we are currentlyaddition, i've pentagon and the state department for contingency plans to adjust the timetable should that become necessary. i'm determined to ensure that we complete our mission, this mission. i'm also mindful of the increasing risks that i have been -- i have been briefed on and the need to factor those risks in. they're real and significant

challenges that we also have to take into consideration. the longer we stay, starting with the acute and growing risk of an attack by a terrorist group known as isis k, an isis affiliated in afghanistan, which is the sworn enemy of the taliban as well, every day we're on the ground is another day we know that isis k is seeking to target the airport and attack both u.s. and allied forces and innocent civilians. additionally, thus far the taliban had been taking steps to work with us so we can get our people out, but it is a tenuous situation. we've already had some gun fighting break out. we run a serious risk of it breaking down as time goes on. second, the g7 leaders and the leaders of the eu, nato and the u.n. all agreed that we will stand united in our approach to the taliban. we agreed the legitimacy of any

future government depends on the approach it now takes to uphold international obligations including to prevent afghanistan from being used as a base for terrorism. we agree that none of us are going to take the taliban's word for it. we'll judge them by their actions and we'll stay in close coordination on any steps that we take moving forward in response to the taliban's behavior. at the same time we renewed our humanitarian commitment to the afghan people and supported a proposal by the secretary general guterres of the united nations-led international response with unfettered humanitarian access in afghanistan. third, we talked about our mutual obligation to support refugees and evacuees currently fleeing afghanistan. the united states will be a leader in these efforts and we'll look to the international community and to our partners to do the same. we're already seeing our allies'

commitment. they're bringing their -- they're bringing to their countries the afghans who served alongside their forces as translators or in their embassies, just as we're bringing to the united states those afghans who worked alongside our forces and diplomats. we are continuing that effort. we are conducting thorough security screening in the intermediate stops they're making for anyone who is not a u.s. citizen or a lawful permanent resident of the united states. anyone arriving in the united states will have undergone a background check. and, and we must all work together to resettle thousands of afghans who ultimately qualify for refugee status. the united states will do our part, and we are already working closely with refugee organizations to rebuild a system that was purposely destroyed by my predecessor. finally, we agreed to stay vigilant against terrorist threats that have metastasized

around the world. we went to afghanistan with our allies in 2001 for clear reasons. one, to get the people who attacked us on 9/11 and to get osama bin laden, and to make sure that afghanistan was not used again as a base from which to attack the united states or our allies. we achieved that objective. we delivered justice to bin laden more than a decade ago. but the current environment looks very different than it did in 2001, and we have to meet the challenges we face today. we run effective counterterrorism operations around the world where we know terrorism is more of a threat than it is today in afghanistan without any permanent military presence on the ground, and we can and will do the same thing in afghanistan with our over-the-horizon counterterrorism capability. cooperation with our closest partners on our enduring

counterterrorism mission will continue to be an essential piece of our strategy. in short, we all, all of us agreed today that we're going to stand shoulder to shoulder with our closest partners to meet the current challenges we face in afghanistan just as we have for the past 20 years. we're acting in consultation and cooperation with our closest friends and fellow democracies, and i want to again thank all of our allies and partners around the world who have rallied in support of our shared mission. we ended the conversation today by a clear statement on all of our parts. we are going to stay united, locked at the hip in terms of what we have to do. we will get that done. tomorrow i have asked secretary blinken to give you an update and a detailed report on exactly how many americans are still in afghanistan, how many we got out and what our projection is.

so thank you again. may god bless you and may god protect our diplomats and all of those in harm's way. thank you. >> reporter: mr. president -- before the troops leave. >> taking no questions, president biden says the sooner we finish the better, giving an update on the evacuations in afghanistan, saying just since this morning 50 more flights have left including 19 military flights, thousands of more people getting out. he says none of the people who come to the united states from afghanistan will come unless they have had a background check, but he also acknowledges that while sticking to the august 31st deadline there is a contingency plan. he says the risks are real, including from isis k and also the complicating factor, of course, of the taliban and whether they allow access to the airport. we are back with our panel. "the washington post", john hudson, who has been reporting on this throughout. former cia director john brennan. former congresswoman donna edwards. thanks to all of you for sticking with us.

director, let me ask you first, talk about what you see as the challenges over the next week if the president and the united states are, indeed, going to meet this deadline. >> well, i think to continue the lines open to the airport so that afghans who want to leave and are able to leave in terms of being eligible can get on those flights. it is clear that there's been a very significant increase in the number of individuals who are being evacuated, which is great news. that's why i think the president was quite reasonable but also quite practical in terms of saying he's going to stay focused on the 31 august deadline, but that contingency plans will be made in the event there may be some disruption, maybe taliban instigated, or the fact we just can't get everybody out by the august 31st deadline. >> john hudson, how big is the challenge facing the u.s. over the next week? >> it is a massive challenge. one of the things to consider is what the taliban said earlier

today, which is that they're not going to allow any more afghan citizens into the airport. that raises a huge question about how the united states is getting the tens of thousands of afghan allies out of the country if they can't get to the airport, how are they going to get out? now, white house press secretary jen psaki said that they are still -- still their expectation that they're going to get those afghan allies out, but it is unclear how that divide is going to be bridged. you still have thousands of u.s. citizens and now, like the president said in his remarks, he said the secretary of state is going to speak tomorrow about those numbers. they have been very hesitant to provide clear numbers, about the number of americans that need rescuing and evacuation out of afghanistan. a lot of that is because it is extremely difficult to have accurate data in an environment like this, largely revolves around volunteering that information to the embassy as

opposed to any sort of mandate or things like that. so, still, thousands and thousands of people that need to get out of the country. we will get more details tomorrow about just how many that is, but this is a herculean fete. >> yes, and the other question, john, obviously is about when -- i mean the word was it had to happen today, he had to make a decision today about the 31st deadline because it is not just about getting everybody out, as herculean a task as that is, but then you have to get the american military out, you have to get all of the equipment out or you have to decide what to do with it. >> absolutely. and i think what we can read by this is that he does intend to get out by the 31st, which is break-neck pace. they will try to do that. he has said there are contingency plans that he is asking for from the state department where i'm at right now, from the pentagon. but, you know, the taliban have been clear there will be consequences. even though we talk about et as

a self-imposed deadline it is important to remember that the taliban have taken this country over and they have been extremely rigid about not bending on this. it doesn't matter if the president sends his top spy to meet with them in an unprecedented face-to-face meeting, they have stood rigid on that deadline. so that's really where the rubber hits the road. >> yeah. donna edwards, there's a huge political component here obviously for the president because the pressure has been coming on both sides, including from a lot of members of congress, your former colleagues, who are saying, you cannot leave just americans behind but the people who we promised, who stood by our side year after year after year, you cannot leave them behind. but as you heard john just say, we heard today from the taliban they're not going to let any more afghan nationals leave. what are your concerns as you watch what unfolds over the next week? >> well, that was a very disturbing message coming from the taliban because it is not

clear how many afghan nationals who aided the united states are still on the ground, where they are and how they will get to the airport. i think one thing that members of congress can be assured of is that at least now compared to eight days ago the operations have stepped up, increased significant -- significant increases in the number of people who have been moved out. we still are not clear, as john has said, about who they are, what numbers are americans, afghan nationals who assisted, family members, and so we will look to get those details from the administration. but it is really clear that the president wants to be out by august 31st. they're working at break-neck speed to do that, you know, we don't know between that 58,000 number and -- or 70,000 number

and how many more people that the american military and civilian forces are able to move outside of the country. >> so one of the things that's being reported in "the new york times", director brennan, picking up on the taliban saying it is not going to let any more leave, a taliban spokesman has been urging crowds of afghans thronging the airport in hopes of leaving the country to instead go home, saying the taliban would guarantee their security. what do you make of the taliban's claim that they're different somehow this time around? >> well, i think the situation, first of all, is very dynamic, for the taliban as well. so they are reacting to the events on the ground around the airport. they would like to be able to keep inside of afghanistan those professionals that are required to run some of the aspects of civil society. so by discouraging some folks, but i would not trust at all any taliban assurances that they're not going to seek out and take retribution against those individuals who worked with the afghan government as well as

with coalition forces. so i do think this is very fluid. the taliban are going to maintain i think a very rigid public line as far as getting out by the 31st, but there might be some ways for some flexibility to be shown in the event that, again, the u.s. decides to try to stretch out the timeline a bit because it has to make that decision within the next few days. otherwise that retrograde, that full withdrawal of u.s. military and equipment really needs to start taking place much more -- much before the 31st of august. >> one more thing that we should bring up, john, is that the president mentioned the g7 and he talked to those folks. he also added he spoke with leadership from the u.n., nato, other eu leaders as well. having said that, there has been some criticism, significantly, from some of our allies in europe about the way this has been handled. he certainly didn't have any details, and i haven't seen any details but maybe you have, of what the message was from some of these leaders to the

president today. >> oh, you're absolutely right that the message has been unusually critical, especially given the fact that the united states is running this airport that is so essential for so many of our allies' citizens to get out. they have been very open about the fact they wanted the united states to push hard and firm to extend beyond the 31st a large military presence to continue the evacuations. so that is certainly an aspect why it was important to have the g7 meeting, it was important for the president to talk to his allies and western nations, because they really have been increasingly vocal about this criticism. it is not a good look for the administration. they have tried to tout the numbers, 70,000, which is nothing to sneeze at, as evidence that they're carrying

out one of the greatest airlifts in u.s. history. but it certainly doesn't look good when you have senior members of government in britain, in france, other european countries, criticizing and second guessing u.s. decisionmaking in an extremely logistic situation. >> thank you so much for starting us off this hour. donna edwards is sticking around. after the break, the january 6th committee in the house poised to begin seeking phone records potentially from sitting members of congress, records that could shed light on communications with donald trump as the insurrection unfolded. plus, a close associate of rudy giuliani expected to plead guilty to campaign fraud charges in federal court. why rudy giuliani could now have reason to worry. "deadline: white house" correspondents after a quick break, so don't go anywhere. at usaa, we've been called too exclusive.

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breaking news on the january 6th commission. "politico" reporting that the house wants to get a look at phone records which could shed light on a series of phone calls between republican members of congress and former president donald trump as the capitol was under attack on january 6th. we know that both jim jordan and house minority leader kevin mccarthy spoke to trump that day. here is select committee chairman congressman bennie thompson last night. >> well, we're looking at all records at some point. we'll do what's required to get the information. we have quite an exhaustive list

of people. i won't tell you who they are, but it's several hundred people. >> thompson also said they will not yet be subpoenaing the records and will be sending a letter requesting them from major telecom and social media companies. he said he could not comment on the timing. joining us frank figliuzzi former assistant director for counterintelligence at the fbi and host of "the bureau" podcast. donna edwards is back with us as well. frank, how important could these records be? what might we learn? >> first, this is a very logical investigative step that needs to be taken. in fact, i would say they need to do it now. they probably should have issued subpoenas long ago. i wish they would catch up and do this. i understand the logic in wanting to ask consent first.

can you please ask the telecom carriers can you voluntarily submit these records to us, but on the other hand as soon as they get a no from the carriers they need to issue subpoenas. they're not likely to get them from the carriers. how significant is it? look, we need the answer to the questions, were sitting members of congress actually aiding and abetting the insurrection? did they have prior knowledge that violence might occur, security breaches might occur, did they do nothing with the light. it sheds light on why nancy pelosi might have said no to some of mccarthy's selection for the committee. why? there's clearly a conflict of interest from some of the members you are requesting the records from are sitting on the committee. >> do you see this as a political calculation? do you see it as something very methodical? why do you think this hasn't happened yet? >> well, one, i do think that

they're working at a very methodical way. i think we already have some news reporting about members of congress themselves saying that they spoke or spoke often with the former president. so i think it is natural to make a request for these records and then to issue subpoenas if necessary. i also think it is important to paint the fullest picture possible of what happened leading up to january 6th and on january 6th. those phone records can help to paint that picture. >> one of the things that obviously has painted a vivid picture of what happened on january 6th is a pretty consistent roll-out of video from that day, and we have some new video that, again, reinforces exactly what happened. let me play that. >> get them out, get them out. get out. get these cops out! >> pull the cops out. you want out? you want out? >> pull them out.

>> you want out? >> pull them out. >> you want -- [ bleep ]. >> get out of my capitol. get out! get out of my capitol! this is my [ bleep ] building. this is not yours. this is my capitol! >> oh. >> this is my building! >> so we continue to see video like that, frank, but it continues to be down played, ignored, dismissed. does the fact that this has become such a partisan issue, does the fact that it was such a struggle to get this commission up and running in a bipartisan way concern you as a national security threat? >> indeed, it does. so disinformation and the lack of any reporting, there will be certain networks and platforms

that will never show these videos, that show the lie that is this notion that the day was peaceful, another tourist day. there are segments of our population that will never see it. so is disinformation, lack of information a national security concern? you bet. because when it comes down to seeking justice, believing the results of a select committee, believing what happens inside a courtroom while evidence is displayed and people are sentenced and thinking all of it is nonsense and some kind of deep state hoax is a serious national security concern. and when people are violent against police officers and as we see engaged in hand-to-hand combat in our nation's capitol, you bet it is a national security concern. >> we have learned, donna, and "the new york times" first reported this, that the capitol police officer who shot a rioter has been cleared of any charges, but also the findings went further. they said that, in fact, that officer may have saved lives of members of congress, of staff that day, and yet here we are

again in the situation of this discrediting, this dismissiveness. why has this abundance of evidence not resonated more with some members of congress? >> well, i think there are members of congress who are just interested in protecting their own political hide. i mean i think that we should be very clear about that and also not to indulge it. every time we see new video or video that comes from january 6th, it is another very startling reminder of the violence of that day. so that's why i think the work of this january 6th commission is so important because someplace has to be recorded in history what happened on that day and who was responsible for it, and, you know, you will still have a broad swath of the american public who will never believe it, members of congress who won't accept it or at least

say publicly that they do accept it. but it is more important that we actually get to the truth and tell the american people because the majority of the american people actually believe that what happened on january 6th was a tragedy for our democracy and they want accountability for it. >> there are people who are telling the truth and there's a headline in "buzzfeed", prosecutors and judges really don't want you to call capitol rioters tourists. they write, i'm especially troubled by the accounts of some members of congress that january 6th was just a day of tourists walking through the capitol. that's from u.s. district judge royce lamberth. i don't know what planet they were on. frank figliuzzi, does this make a difference? does the fact that you have people who are unbiassed in this, who are looking at the facts of the case, does that have any sway? >> i'm beginning to think that

there are segments of our population that will never accept truth or even any opinion that varies from theirs. we're certainly seeing that with regard to covid vaccines, masks, protests turning violent in that regard, and the same goes for seeking the truth with regard to january 6th. language is important. certainly we should not refer to it as a typical tourist day because all evidence is to the contrary, but there are news platforms that don't want us referring to that day as an insurrection because they believe there's a legal nuance there. they want it referred to as a riot. language matters. getting it right matters. and the more we repeat the truth and expose the evidence, the more likely we are to convince people of what happened that day. >> and understand the thread that goes through of lies and disinformation. frank figliuzzi, you are staying with us. donna edwards, thank you. up next, a one-time ally of rudy giuliani expected to flip

his plea in federal court from not guilty to guilty. what it could mean for giuliani, who is still being investigated by the feds. reliable network by rootmetrics. and our customers rated us #1 for network quality in america according to j.d. power. number one in reliability, 16 times in a row. most awarded for network quality, 27 times in a row. proving once again that nobody builds networks like verizon. that's why we're building 5g right, that's why there's only one best network. we've got you taken care of, sgt. houston. thank you. that was fast! one call to usaa got her a tow, her claim paid... ...and even her grandpa's dog tags back. get a quote. ray loves vacations. but his diabetes never seemed to take one. everything felt like a 'no.'

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we have an intriguing and potentially game-changing new plea in the case surrounding rudy giuliani and his wingman in federal court in manhattan. giuliani associate igor fruman who is charged with federal

campaign finance violations will appear before a judge wednesday where he is expected to flip his plea to guilty after previously pleading not guilty back in 2019. fruman alongside parnes aided giuliani in his dealings with ukraine in an attempt to dig up information on joe and hunter biden in the 2020 election. as we wait until the hearing tomorrow, the big question that remains is whether fruman will cooperate with prosecutors in the case, a possibility that could worry giuliani who is currently under investigation himself though he has not yet been accused of any crimes. joining us now, joyce vance, former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor, and frank figliuzzi is still with us. joyce, what might this mean for rudy giuliani? >> well, unfortunately, the docket -- the notation on the court's docket that there's about to be a change of plea hearing doesn't reveal a lot of

information to us. chris, there's now some indication that this hearing may be put off until early september at the request of mr. fruman's lawyer. but when defendants change their plea from not guilty, which is very standard at arraignment, to a plea of guilt, that indicates only that they're going to plead guilty rather than going to trial. we'll have to wait for the hearing itself to learn whether this indicates that there's a cooperation deal or whether this is just a straight-up plea of guilt which carries benefits to the defendant, a small reduction in the guideline sentence, and we often see people pleading guilty without any sort of cooperation agreement. >> joyce, you're prescient, we just literally saw it cross that it has been moved to september 10th, not tomorrow. september 10th. can we read anything into that? >> that's an interesting question. it could signify there are negotiations going on between the prosecution and the defense

here and they're not quite ready for prime time tomorrow, or it could simply be what we often see in court moving something because someone's child is having surgery or there's another sort of a conflict. again, we can't read a lot into this one way or the other. >> what do you read into all of this? what do you read into the change of plea, frank? >> so joyce is right on the money. she knows full well that many, many federal criminal cases resolve themselves in some sort of plea. but this change of plea is very intriguing, particularly at the last moment. let's go ahead and engage in some what-ifs. what if he is going to cooperate? if that's true, rudy giuliani needs to be very concerned because we're talking about somebody who was joined at the hip with giuliani, somebody who would have insights, have been in the room when things like foreign money into u.s. campaigns were discussed, when pressures were placed on certain ukrainian officials to remove

the united states ambassador to ukraine, and even perhaps when president trump or his advisors were mentioned or even on calls regarding pressures placed on ukraine to remove the u.s. ambassador, even knowledge of trump or others, of foreign money coming into the united states, evading federal election and campaign donor laws, setting up shell company to do it. rudy needs to be worried. and to the extent that fruman knows anything about trump's involvement, this is another cause for concern for the former president. >> again, we can't reiterate this enough, joyce, we don't know there's any kind of cooperation agreement. we don't know what is going to happen now on september 10th, but if there was some sort of cooperation, you know how these deals are made, what would fruman have to know? what would be his level of knowledge given the charges that are against him for it to be worth while for prosecutors to make a deal?

>> the standard for making a cooperation deal is that the defendant has to be willing to give information that he has that helps prosecutors make additional cases or prove additional charges against existing defendants in ongoing investigations. chris, there's something we can't stress here enough, which is that in the southern district of new york they have a relatively unique rule. they require a defendant to get a cooperation agreement to give up all of the information that he has about wrongdoing no matter who is involved, and we've seen a number of defendants stumble in the face of this requirement. some people don't want to coop cooperate against family members or spouses. this also could be the source of problems here and the delay, but, again, i don't want to read too much into this. this could just be a straight-up guilty ply. >> we will see what happens on september 10th. in the mean time there continues to be speculation about rudy giuliani, and the headline in

"the daily beast" has been rudy drowning in legal bills as trump puts distance between them. writing, for months now trump has consistently ignored or rejected giuliani's plea for assistance. it is not just that trump and other prominent republicans have been unwilling to open wallets or war chests to offset giuliani's mounting legal costs, in many cases giuliani's former trump world comrades have declined to even acknowledge the existence of his legal defense fund, which has struggled to raise much of anything from the public. the stakes for the former new york mayor couldn't be higher as he faces a slew of legal troubles. courts in new york and washington, d.c. have suspended his law license, depriving giuliani of an important source of income. in the meantime his legal bills continue to grow. attorneys for dominion voting systems have filed a billion dollar defamation lawsuit against giuliani for echoing wild conspiracy theories about the company's products. so there you have it, frank.

i mean trump is nowhere to be found. all of those folks who he was running around with don't seem to be in any mood to defend him or to help him financially. he has lost prospects for him to earn money himself, and so that, again, leads us to the question, is he desperate enough to turn on his long-time friend? >> that is the $64,000 question. as the walls close in on rudy giuliani, he's been suspended from practicing law, his most prominent client ever wants nothing to do with him. he's on the verge of bankruptcy according to some reporting. is this enough? and the prospect of prison time. is this enough for him to sit down and say, that's it, i've had it, i'm going to tell you everything i know? time will tell. but my gut feeling is even though he loudly protests about what motivates this prosecution, he's not willing to go to

prison. i think that's probably going to lead to some form of cooperation at some point. >> and in the meantime we remain curious and our curiosity will be not sated tomorrow about igor fruman, but that breaking news again in the last few minutes that we will not see him in court tomorrow but on september 10th. frank figliuzzi, joyce vance, thank you for spending time with us. coming up, republican governors like greg abbott of texas, ron desantis of florida, oppose vaccine mandates based on the fact that the shots were not fully approved by the fda. so what do they do now that pfizer has snagged that full approval?

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truly absorb the natural goodness. new chapter. wellness, well done. the landmark full fda approval of pfizer's coronavirus vaccine may be setting off a scramble on the right. many governors signing executive orders banning vaccine mandates did so with a caveat. blocking the mandate because the vaccine did not have full fda authorization. now one of the vaccine has that approval, the legal stance could come into question. "the washington post," erin blake asks, "now what"? the big argument of the vaccine is going away, now what? >> that's a good question.

they are past laws or had executive orders like in the case of governor greg abbott they're not going to be doing vaccine mandates but describing that ban under mandate, in the case like texas, this was something enacted a month ago when we knew we were potentially on the doorsteps of having these vaccines win that full approval, so now was this actually about the emergency use authorizations? will there be some kind of a change with these republicans who stake out that ground and said it was about the emergency use authorization or was it more of a convening argument at the time as much of their base fighting against these kinds of mandates. let us not forget this went into

effect with the trump administration. >> yeah, and so the push back on this and we are already starting to see it on fox news and elsewhere is the idea that perhaps this authorization, full authorization may have been rushed. maybe there is not a greater amount of rigger involvement here. there is been people connecting this to the idea that this is rushed so they can start institute vaccine mandates. we have a situation where the vaccine was approved late last year by the trump administration for emergency use. now it is approved by the biden administration, at least for the pfizer vaccine. the process was rushed and as related point if you look at somebody who talked about applying pressure on the fda to do the things he wanted them, that was very much what president trump was talking

about last year and he talked about that in the months since he left the white house. we still have not seen that kind of publicly expressed pressure from the biden administration. so to the extent there is concern or the lease republicans are going to be expressing concerns about political pressure being brought to bear may be ridge, when president trump was president was saying these things applying these pressure on the fda to move things on vaccines and hydroxychloroquine. >> i would not expect the republican party to jump whole hog into the mandate. we are talking about moderate governors who are talking about this right now. ohio governor signed a law that had been passed by the state legislature says he's not going to move forward of any vaccine mandates. we are pretty much in the same

position before, aaron blake, thank you for spending the time with us, "the beat" starts right after this quick break. beat" stt after this quick break [szasz] we take care of ourselves constantly; it's important. we walk three to five times a week, a couple miles at a time. - we've both been taking prevagen for a little more than 11 years now. after about 30 days of taking it, we noticed clarity that we didn't notice before. - it's still helping me. i still notice a difference. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. pool floaties are like whooping cough. amusement parks are like whooping cough. even ice cream is like whooping cough, it's not just for kids. whooping cough is highly contagious for people of any age. and it can cause violent uncontrollable coughing fits. sometimes followed by vomiting and exhaustion. ask your doctor or pharmacist about whooping cough vaccination

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welcome to "the beat," we are tracking a major development. house democrats are marching forward of the winning vote. this is of the core that joe biden pushed out. president biden is touting the progress towards what looks like another set of wins. the liberal big