we will see if afghan and unfolding events will allow them to do that. >> shannon pettypiece and pete baker, thank you both. i know we'll have much more analysis coming up on "deadline white house" with nicolle wallace, which starts right now. hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in washington. president biden just moments ago wrapped up remarks on the end of america's nearly 20-year war in afghanistan. the president applauding the work of the u.s. military and u.s. diplomats in what he called one of the largest airlifts in history and singling out for praise the 13 u.s. service members who were killed in a bombing near kabul airport late last week. the president also making a forceful defense of the decision to withdraw from afghanistan by the deadline of august 31st, saying he would not, quote, continue a forever war and extend a, quote, forever exit. in a moment we will speak with

the president's national security advisor, jake sullivan. but first for our ongoing coverage we are joined by helene cooper, pentagon correspondent for "the new york times," an msnbc contributor, former top state department official rick stengel, now also an msnbc political analyst and paul rieckhoff is here, founder of veterans of america and host of the podcast independent americans. helene, i start with you. if there's any question as to whether or not this president and this white house cease the criticism of this decision, i think it was answered by the president going right at this very sort of specific line of attack that you hear frankly from the right and the left. he talked about this, quote, we shoulda, coulda maintained a small force and not taken on any casualties. they felt it was important to knock that down. what did you make of the specifics that he had and the attempt to knock back the critics? >> hi, nicolle, thanks for

having me. it was a clear effort to knock down critics, but, you know, when you -- he picked the criticisms that he wanted to knock down and kind of left the ones that were a little bit harder for him to knock down. so when he says that, you know, we shoulda, coulda -- the withdrawal could not have been gone -- could not have gone any differently and was going to be chaotic no matter what the united states did, there are elements of truth in that. it's hard to imagine how any sort of ending of a war in afghanistan given the -- and i thought it was pretty extraordinary that he came out straight on the -- he called the afghan government corrupt. he's sparing criticism now for the national security -- afghan national security forces and their soldiers and commandos who melted away. the commandos did fight and some of them did fight, but at the end of the day it's hard to be willing to put your life on the

line for a government that is corrupt. president biden nodded to that. he's been frustrated with that for years. so that's certainly a criticism that you can knock down. what he didn't address and i found that interesting and i think probably the most of all the criticisms that you've heard about the biden administration handling of this withdrawal, and i think he's right to a certain degree that it would have been chaotic no matter what, you didn't hear president biden addressing the american immigration and visa system and the bureaucracy that has tied up these siv visa applications. he didn't address why the state department moved so slowly, did not act as if, you know, they were in a crisis. they acted as if they had years to go ahead and approve these visa applicants so that you ended up with the scenes -- some

of the scenes we saw at the airport in kabul, which you would have seen some of those scenes anyway but i don't think it would have been quite as devastating. and if the state department and homeland security had moved a little bit faster, i think you could -- president biden could have stood up and said to the american people, look, over the past few months we've already gotten out 150,000 people. look at what we've just done in anticipation of this. and they haven't been able to do that. so i thought his -- i thought his speech was pretty much what you would expect to hear at this point in time. i think it was -- he certainly is right that we have just witnessed an extraordinary airlift. you know, the fact that the military and american officials and the coalition in afghanistan managed to get more than 125,000 people evacuated from hkia airport so quickly in just two weeks, i think that's an extraordinary thing.

i think history will look back at that as something definitely to note. but i do think the administration and president biden has to be careful of this presentation, this tendency that they have to constantly try to accentuate the positive in the ending of a war that almost -- that is impossible to say is ending in anything other than a defeat and by only looking at -- by constantly emphasizing when jake sullivan talks, when secretary of state antony blinken talks, the administration officials are saying, look, we've been able to do this, look, we've been able to do that. sure. but we're also seeing the end of a 20-year war in which so many people, so many lives lost are asking the question of what was it all for. and if you don't recognize a little bit of this futility when you're speaking to the american

public, you end up losing the trust of the american public when they -- because they're not going to pay attention to what you have to say and i think that's a danger that the administration needs to be aware of. >> and paul rieckhoff, i've watched your twitter feed during this speech so i think i know where you're heading. but to helene's point, you can't spin the war to the men and women who fought it. and i wonder -- i saw that you reacted positively. he offered in that speech in an address to the nation to meet with the veterans who view the afghan interpreters and their families as their brothers. they're texting with them because they have all their phone numbers and they have stayed in touch with them. they may have left the country when they came back home but these interpreters they view as family. i talked to a veteran who is part of the calls who says he feels heard. but i know you still feel like there is a lot more work to be done. i wonder your reaction to the

president's speech, specifically on these issues? >> well, this is not a good news story. i think that's the top line message here that helene is nailing. this is a very optimistic way of portraying what has been a devastatingly catastrophic couple of weeks after a terrible 20-year experience for all of us. so there's a deliberate reframing here that really, frankly, rubs me the wrong way. we keep hearing you're going to go after isis-k, you're going to hit them back for hitting us. who's going to be held accountable for the failures that have left so many people to die and so many people jammed at the gate? and there's still really -- helene is hitting on a core part of what many veterans and many in the military will speak to call a betrayal. you can't just talk about how many you got out, you have to talk about how many you left behind. yes, it was fantastic they got over 100,000 out, that was notable. but the situation was also so bad that we had to get out that many that quickly and still

don't know how many may have been left behind. it may be hundreds of thousands. so there's an effort to spike the ball, say this is a good story, we're moving on. by the way, we're out of afghanistan but we're going to keep fighting. so how do you have both? there's a both sidesism that's going to catch up with him. president biden understands veterans at a very visceral level but he also did what politicians do which is use them as a shield for political decisions. that's a very tight rope to walk. we want to be understood, we have our issues to be addressed but you can't hide behind the generals. this is his decision alone and he has to be very careful in how he messages those kinds of things around the military and veterans community, especially right now when many of them feel hurt, betrayed and left behind. >> rick stengel, this is of utmost importance because this

president cares very much about what veterans say and feel about his leadership. this white house has very solid ground to stand on in terms of public support for leaving afghanistan and they have been very eager to frame all of these communications, and it's a smart decision, around that decision to go. but what do you make of helene's criticism and paul's about the evacuation and the afghan allies left behind? >> well, i would have a slightly different interpretation because i think he said some of the same things that both of our guests said. what did joe biden say? he gave us a hard truth. we have no strategic interest in afghanistan. let me say that again. we have no strategic interest in afghanistan. that goes against people for the last 20 years, generals, politicians who say we need to be there because we have a strategic interest in afghanistan. that's a hard truth that he's

telling the american people. he's saying that the sacrifice of those young men and women, the 800,000 people who have been there, the 2,500 deaths were not for strategic interests. if i were a veteran, i would be saying why did somebody send me in harm's way if we don't have a strategic interest there. that's a very hard truth that he's saying there. and yes, he didn't talk about all the people that are still left behind, although an extraordinary airlift of getting 120,000 people out. but you have to make hard choices. he got all of the american soldiers out. what i heard today was a man who hates war. i mean i was very struck when he said there's no such thing as a low grade or low risk war. the people who are saying, yes, let's just keep 2,500 soldiers there because it's low risk, it's low grade. he said no, it's not. there's no such thing as a low grade or low risk war. that's another hard truth that

he's telling the american people. he's a man who hates war. that's what we heard today. >> i also think, i just have to add, rick stengel, that he is someone who is in line with where the majority of the american people are on this war in afghanistan and there has not been majority public support -- this war has been fought by the whole country. the whole country did not go to war, the military fought this war and paid the price. i want to bring into our coverage national security advisor jake sullivan. i don't know if you heard any of our reaction and i won't ask you to address any of it, but i wonder if you can speak to the president's forceful attempt, it would sound like, to beat down the critics. critics who say i hear this woulda, shoulda kept a small force there but as rick stengel is pointing out, there is no low risk military operation. >> i think the end of his speech really summed up what president biden believes about those who

argue for another decade or two decades or three decades of american military involvement in afghanistan. those folks are arguing, as he said in his speech, that we could just have a low grade or low risk or low cost engagement there and president biden pointed out the very real human cost of staying at war. the costs borne by 1% of our population who fight in the armed forces and who year after year, decade after decade bore those costs in afghanistan. he said no. i'm not going to keep going. i'm not going to keep sending thousands of troops to fight in a civil war in another country for an open-ended period of time. and so yes, he felt he was going to directly take on this argument being made chiefly by foreign policy professionals who are not fully accounting for the risks and the sacrifices and the costs borne by the selfless heroes who serve in our armed forces. >> jake, i want to ask you about something matt dowd said on this

program yesterday. he said that what he detected in this president was also the experience of having been a father to someone who was in combat and that that experience is unknowable to anyone who hasn't had that. i wonder, obviously being by his side for all of the closed door meetings, how much that came up or was that just some of the experience he brought to this decision? >> well, i certainly don't want to reveal any of the comments the president made in closed door meetings, but i would point out to you that in his speech today when he was confronting this argument, this casual argument about how we can just keep this going, don't worry about the cost, he specifically referenced his son beau. he said, you know, maybe it's because my son beau served for a year in iraq. maybe it's because of all the other veterans i've met who have served over the course of many years as joe biden was senator and vice president and president. these personal elements, his own

exposure to the costs of conflict i do think have weighed heavily on him and have had a major impact in his thinking about what made sense here. i would also say, nicolle, and i think this is really important, that making a forceful case against open-ended war in afghanistan did not distract the president from also making a very forceful case about how he is going to stay laser focused in a precise and targeted and effective way against terrorism. he believes that we can fight terrorism without fighting endless wars. >> courtney kube, our pentagon correspondent, made the point that the largest terror threat is actually in yemen where obviously we are not at war in yemen. i want to get to that, but i just want to ask you, for your best analysis of where this gulf exists, this is a president who as we've been talking about was a father. beau was in combat. he's a president who cares very much about the military. he and dr. biden both.

where is this gulf coming from and the passionate disapproval from so many veterans like paul rieckhoff who's on our air right now? why weren't the siv recipients or applicants aided in cutting through some of that red tape? >> so, first of all, the siv program which has existed for many years was not designed for a mass evacuation, that's just the truth. it was a bipartisan bill in congress that was designed with a series of gates that each applicant had to pass through. you know how long the average time was for someone to pass through those gates? not because of joe biden but because of the nature of this legislation. 18 to 24 months per visa application, some took years. when president biden took office, he inherited a backlog of thousands of these visa applications and he did cut through the red tape in a massive way. he slashed the amount of time to process these visas. in july he actually began an airlift of siv applicants out of

afghanistan and to the united states. now, it is true that he didn't conduct a 120,000-person evacuation in july, but he judged at the time that doing so would have caused the even more rapid and precipitous collapse of the afghan government. in hindsight given that it collapsed anyway should we have started earlier? that's something that can be debated. but the notion that joe biden was not focused on processing these applications quickly, getting people on planes out of the country, i don't think the record backs that up. i think the president has been committed to helping those who helped us. he deployed 6,000 troops into harm's way to help get out the people who helped us along with americans and others. and he continues to be insistent that the united states will stay focused on getting out remaining afghans to the united states. 120,000 people were evacuated from afghanistan. i know there are people who say that's not enough. there's got to be more. and we're not done. but honestly, nicolle, the

argument that somehow this is joe biden not standing up for the afghan people and standing up for afghans who helped us, this was a historic airlift that went far beyond what anybody had reasonably anticipated going into this. >> jake, i don't mean to put you on the defensive here. you don't have to answer to me. i just hear from a lot of veterans and i hear you. it's an achievement. i think most of my viewers are grateful to the president for ending this war. i've been on the other side of this. the american public hasn't been enthusiastic about this effort for over a decade. i just want to understand the actual process now, though. i'm sure you get calls now every day either from news organizations or veterans who want you to help a specific person who's having a hard time. can you tell me what that process looks like if the government is the enemy that wants to kill these people. how do you help them? what do you do when you get one of those calls? >> nicolle, i think it's such a great question because it really

illuminates the personal nature of this mission. this is about the individual lives of individual people and families. i get calls and emails and texts about families. so do all of my colleagues. and we get on the phone or have been getting on the phone to our team on the ground to say how do we get them through the gate, how do we get them on a bus? we've been doing that family by family and group by group over the past 17 days and there have been great stories of success of getting people through and heartbreaking stories of people we haven't yet been able to get out of the country. we will never, ever be satisfied because no matter how this mission had unfolded or will unfold in the future, there's always going to be that person who didn't get out of afghanistan. after 20 years of war, you're talking about not hundreds of thousands but millions of people who in one way or another helped with this effort. so the process has been hard, it has been personal and, yes, it has required us to your question

to work with the taliban. as general mckenzie said last night, they have been business-like in their approach with us. not because they're nice guys, they're not. but because they have had an interest along with us to make that evacuation mission run smoothly. going forward i think they'll have an interest in responding to our requests because we have an enormous amount of leverage over them. we intend to use that leverage to keep getting people out. >> just on those lines, what is the taliban? are they now our frenemy, our adversary, are they our enemy, are they our -- what are they? >> well, it's hard to put a label on it in part because we have yet to see what they are going to be now that they are in control, physical control of afghanistan. they will in the coming days announce a government. that government is going to go around seeking diplomatic engagement, even recognition from other countries, including the united states. in fact the taliban spokesman

today said he was looking for positive relations on behalf of the taliban, especially with the united states. we're not just going to grant positive relations to the taliban. they're going to have to earn everything from the international community through actions, not words. that begins with safe passage for americans and afghan allies and that also includes them living up to their counterterrorism commitments, including that afghanistan can never again be used as a base from which to attack the united states or our allies again. >> jake sullivan, i want to just give you the last word. this seems like a president exasperated. he did what he said he was going to do. he followed through on the exact same policy put in by his predecessor. it was donald trump who made this deal with the taliban. is there a feeling of frustration that some of the foreign policy establishment and media is piling onto this president when he's simply doing what he said he was going to do and following through on a deal

made by the guy who came before him? >> i think what you heard today, nicolle, was a president with conviction, genuine deep conviction. it starts in his gut, it goes to his heart and it occupies his head that the time had come for this war to end. the time had come to shift to a different model of fighting terrorism in afghanistan and around the world. the time had come to bring american men and women home so we were not entering a third decade in the middle of a civil war in another country. indeed in a country where the side we were supporting was not prepared to fight for itself. so the president isn't really thinking about all the media noise or all the critics. what he is thinking about is why he did this. and he did want to respond not to the chattering class, but to the arguments put forward about why we should stay. he really wanted to address those head on and say that he did not find merit or purchase in those arguments, that he thought the right and the sound decision for the american people

and the american national security interest was to ending the war in afghanistan. he is proud that he did it. he is convicted in his having done so. now standing here today, he feels he's followed through on a commitment he made to the american people. >> national security advisor, jake sullivan. i know these are extremely busy days for folks in your job. we're grateful that you took some time to field our questions, thank you. >> thanks for having me. >> i want to come straight to you, paul rieckhoff, because i really am trying to understand. this is a president and a white house that is trying to do the right thing. there is a veterans community still very unsatisfied with the state of that effort. i wonder if jake sullivan there offered some clarity or if this is -- tell me your reaction. >> no. he's doubling down. the idea this is -- you know, this all went really well and there's a bunch of minor mistakes and a small group of chattering class that are getting in the president's way.

we know he cares. we know people care. but there's an issue here that has to be pulled apart. the withdrawal is different from the evacuation. and the evacuation was marred with incompetence and failure and disorganization and lies and that is the part that people right now who are close to it are focused on. and he still didn't give you an answer for what we do for the sivs that are right there now being hunted by the taliban and will be killed. it's not a good thing that he has to work with his family through a phone tree to get them out. we should have a government system in place. that's where you see the outrage. it's wonderful so many veterans stood up. the american public has rallied. we're rallying because our government failed. and where is the accountability? that is the question for jake sullivan and that is the question for the president that he continues to refuse to answer. >> helene, what is the answer to these questions at the pentagon? >> well, it was interesting listening to jake because there's like -- listening to the

biden administration right now, and they definitely, many members of them definitely sound, including the president at some points, sound like they are on the defensive, probably with good reason. they're getting a lot of criticism. but you can't conflate criticism over the decision to withdraw, which is one thing, with criticism over the actual how we carried out that withdrawal. and that sounded to me like what our national security advisor just did. to a certain extent that's what president biden sometimes does. when you hear them talking about we needed to -- the chattering classes who say that we could have left 2,500 to 4,000 people there and it wouldn't be -- it would be low risk. the pentagon recommended that we leave 3,000 to 4,500 troops in afghanistan. they never said that's going to

be low risk. they knew and they said at the time that this could be -- you're going to be in exchange for that, unlike korea or germany where we have 25,000 troops, you know, you'd have much fewer in afghanistan but the trade-off for that is going to be you're going to lose some troops every year for a long period of time. so there was no this is going to be a low risk situation because you're in -- you're in a war zone. but you have to differentiate that from the whole how this withdrawal was actually carried out. and when you look at how president biden makes a decision, he says we are going to withdraw. and then below that there are many, many things that have to happen after that decision in order to make this so that this decision can be executed properly and that is where the american bureaucracy fell down. that's where the entire national security apparatus that is run by the national security advisor, jake sullivan, started

to not work, fire on all of its open synappes. it is his national security advisor that's supposed to look at how the different bureaucracies and different agencies carry this decision out and put in place what they need to do in order to get this done as smoothly as a chaotic situation would allow. that's where you're seeing a lot of the more substantial criticism of the government, evening. >> rick stengel, the mission today is in some ways more dangerous. and i wonder if you can speak to what the intelligence community will have to do to achieve what jake sullivan just said is our goal. that this president's commitment is to make sure that afghanistan does not again become a safe haven for terrorists. that will now largely be an intelligence operation. just speak to how this white house sees the future.

>> can i talk a little bit about what we were just talking about, nicolle. >> please. actually let's do that first and then we'll all come back to terrorism. i'd like your reaction to jake, your reaction to paul and to helene's reporting. take your time. >> yeah. at the risk of seeming like an ivory tower professor, i just want to put the withdrawal in historical context. here's a disastrous withdrawal. when the british left afghanistan in 1842, 4,500 troops left kabul and one englishman 11 days later arrived in jalalabad. that was a disastrous evacuation. here's another one. when the british left india in 1947, 1948, just pulled out. over the next few years, 2 million people died as that country was divided in half. when the french left algeria in 1962, hundreds of thousands of

people died, including thousands and thousands of frenchmen, and that country is still not healed. those are disastrous withdrawals. we don't know what the extent of a truly disastrous withdrawal would have been. the counterfactuals are just immense. i mean i think when this is looked back on, people will say, yep, he got us out of there. a terrible tragedy that 13 american servicemen and women died. we got 100,000 people out. when we left vietnam in 1975, you could argue that every member, every citizen of south vietnam worked for the americans during that war and we took a few thousand people out. we left while we were being fired upon by the enemy. you know, the country was taken over. so those are disastrous withdrawals. i just wanted to put that in perspective. i'm not exonerating or explaining away what happened.

but that's just some historical perspective. to your actual first question -- >> no, you know what, let's stay with the -- let me just give you another chance to address something else that we've all talked about already and that is this idea that he's leveling up, that he's being honest. lawrence o'donnell said that was the most stunningly honest speech by an american president about what we were doing there, how we got there and the need to leave. is that your feeling? >> here's what i would say, and paul made the distinction between the -- and helene did too, between the rightness of the policy decision and the execution of the withdrawal. where i thought he was being very honest and candid, and you have to read a little bit between the lines with that, is essentially he was saying our 20-year investment in afghanistan, $2 trillion,

800,000 service men, was all misbegotten. the strategy which originally started as counterterrorism and then turned into counterinsurgency and then turned to nation building was ass backward from the start. and that's pretty honest. there aren't many american presidents have said that to the american people because -- and part of the reason is, is that soldiers who made an ultimate sacrifice, they go why did that happen? well, biden is saying because politicians and generals and the elites and foreign policy establishment all said it was worthwhile. well, i don't think it is. that's being very honest. was he as straightforward about the nature of the withdrawal? no. but i mean every politician tries to justify their decisions. i mean that's the nature of politics and governing. so i would make that distinction.

>> let me let paul rieckhoff react. >> here's a really important point. this is not over because we left. it is a feeling in america right now this is over because the last american troops left and there's folks like richard who sounds like he's spiking the ball and saying the evacuation is over. we don't know what the next six months is going to look like. for the people inside afghanistan right now, especially for people who had siv visas who worked with us, especially for women and girls, the next six months could be catastrophic. war is not over for the afghan people. war is not over for the veterans that feel connected there. frankly, the humanitarian aspect means -- how will the american public feel if isis-k continues to grow there? how will they feel if isis-k continues to set up bases there? how will they feel if we see a humanitarian disaster played on our screen week after week after week where the taliban does what they do best.

there are plenty of people willing to spike the ball. look, there are no american casualties. this is a very dynamic situation and it's still combat. the president said it's not a mission of combat, it's a mission of mercy. it's still a mission of combat. whether we're in the combat or not or over the horizon or not, this is still very much combat for everyone who lives there. >> helene cooper, the last word. >> well, i'll just transfer to your effort to turn the conversation to terrorism because that is -- you know, that's the reason why we went into afghanistan and now that we're doing this whole over the horizon, which is an insane phrase that makes no sense to anybody -- >> will you explain that to people. >> it means that we're going to use -- it's a great feat but things like this make me crazy. it means that we're going to try to hit isis and al qaeda in afghanistan from -- not from the

ground in afghanistan, we're going to do it from over the horizon, meaning from drone strikes. we're going to do warplanes that are going to attack and not launch from afghanistan, from bagram, they're going to launch from qatar or the united arab emirates. we're not going to be in country so what we do, our terror attacks will be done over the horizon. but that means that we do not have american eyes on the ground and that's difficult. we still have -- you know, we still have good -- we still have fair intelligence up to a point, but when you don't have american eyes on the ground, i'm not saying that we necessarily should, but we should just understand that our ability to counter terror threats in afghanistan is severely -- is much more limited now that we are no longer there. and the longer we are away from there, the harder it gets. that's where you get into a situation you start -- it's hard to predict what happens down the line, but you saw what happened

when we left iraq with isis. isis came back and we ended up having to go back and that remains a worry here is that at some point you see another terror threat rising out of afghanistan and we're going to have to handle it one way or the other. >> helene cooper, rick stengel, paul rieckhoff, three of the most informed, most honest people that we get to talk to. thank you so much for spending so much of this hour with us. i'm grateful. when we come back, the governor of florida making good on his threat to defund schools and punishing the school boards over his ban on masking, just to protect our kids from covid. that's despite a judge saying his ban on mask requirements is unconstitutional. another authoritarian leader who thinks he knows what's best for our kids. later in the show, another insurrection? a maga congressman warning of bloodshed to come over the lies about the 2020 election and declaring the january 6th insurrectionists, wait for it,

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president biden is making good on his promise to take action against republican-led states leaving unvaccinated kids under 12 largely unprotected by banning mask mandates. the department of education has launched civil rights investigations into whether those bans on school mask mandates in five states, the

states are iowa, oklahoma, south carolina, tennessee and utah, are discriminating against students with disabilities who could be at a higher risk for severe covid illness. the department says it also is prepared to take action, if necessity, in texas, arkansas, arizona and florida. florida is of course where republican governor ron desantis is now withholding funds from the first two school districts that defied his now invalidated ban on school mask mandates in the state. florida is experiencing the worst covid outbreak in the country, one of the worst in the world. joining our coverage, kim atkins stohr, senior columnist for the boston globe and co-host of the podcast sisters-in-law. and david plouffe is here. both are msnbc contributors. i want to start with the politics here first. there's a great story in "the new york times" today, david plouffe, about how united people outside the beltway are in this decision to leave afghanistan,

not really on foreign policy grounds but on the grounds that parents of kids under 12 are terrified about back-to-school week, which for many people is last week, this week or next week. this fight against governors who want to forbid mask mandates especially for kids under 12 is front of mind in the vast majority of american families right now. >> absolutely, nicolle. ron desantis is basically using kids as pawns in some sick demented game to become the next mini trump. it's despicable, it's a dereliction of duty. like so many issues in america, nicolle, over two-thirds of americans are united that if we need kids to wear masks in school, they should do that, both to keep them safe. in schools that have unvaccinated kids under 12 to keep them safe and get past this pandemic. yeah, there's no question the pandemic remains the number one issue. economically, from a health

standpoint and from an education standpoint. and so you see all around the country, by the way, people attacking school board members, threatening violence. you mentioned madison cawhorne in the lead-in suggesting these of political prisoners. the country needs to prepare themselves. we have one of our two major political parties in this country basically celebrating violence. the overturning of elections, potentially assassinating school board members. why it's insanity. at the end of the day here we are talking about kids, many of them unvaccinated. we don't have a date when kids under 12 can be vaccinated. there's as many people died in florida as went to disney world every day pre-pandemic. think about that. think about that image. florida is leading the country in cases, hospitalizations and deaths. and you have desantis who maybe had 24 hours where he did the responsible thing around vaccinations. i think he's thinking a lot more about des moines, iowa, and

manchester, new hampshire, and the 24 republican primaries than he is the citizens of his state. >> kim, it's a very sinister bet, because i'm sure that ron desantis is going to hold himself up in iowa as a friend of the pro-life movement. that's what most republicans do. but in florida, poison control is seeing a spike in calls from people taking livestock deworming drugs called ivermectin even though the fda warns of its use. people like ron desantis have turned republicans into lunatics who trust cow dewormer more than a fully approved fda vaccine for covid. what is the future of a party heading down that path? >> it's very difficult to see what it might be, nicolle. what we know from what we've seen in the past is that this party has become one for which the truth is no barrier to what is considered the winning

political message. right now the winning political message seems to be fighting against every mandated control aimed at, as you said, protecting lives and keeping people alive. i mean if people can believe a big lie of election fraud, which takes just the idea that that could have been carried out takes so much suspension of disbelief, we are just seeing a continuation of that suspension of disbelief. and in this case you have now the department of justice getting involved looking into what is happening on the local level with these mask mandates. you certainly have based on all the reasons that david just laid out that the law is on the side of people imposing these mandates. the supreme court has held that we can impose mandates for vaccines, let alone masks, and particularly when it is a public health issue and certainly protecting children and their safety is that. these localities have a very

strong interest in doing that for all the same reasons that we see kids wearing helmets when they play football games. so it's a losing legal message. i think like folks like desantis know that which is why they're going at it so hard. even if they ultimately lose in court, that too will be seen as a victory for them as they painting the courts as somehow beholden to joe biden or democratic interests. it's really disruptive and dangerous to democracy, but it's a short-term political gain and so they keep going for it. >> david plouffe here, i don't think it's a short-term political gain. i think it's a massive political loser to be on the side of death. more people died in the last two days of covid in largely southern states, all unvaccinated people, than died in the entire military effort in afghanistan. and the republican hypocrisy, the republican indifference to death and suffering and dying that is needless, these are people that could have been vaccinated. people dying are over 12 years old. i think it's a political loser. what do folks like yourself,

folks who have been in sort of the political war rooms for the most successful democratic candidates make of the sort of cynical, as kim is saying, political bet that desantis is making and a long-term sort of branding as being indifferent to protecting kids, indifferent to death, indifferent to sickness? >> yeah, not a great bumper sticker, right, nicolle? so it should be a political loser. i do think what desantis and others are accurately reading is where the republican primary electorate is, where so much of the social media energy is and donor energy. where it should be a political loser is in a general election. and so that is going to be the question. when you look at where the american people are on anything from did joe biden win the election, should we remain a democracy, should everyone get vaccinated, should we have mask mandates when we need them, you know, is climate change real, should we have background checks on guns, all of these enjoy support of 66% to 90% of the

american people. yet republicans religiously get 46% to 51% of the vote. so i think for democratic candidates, democratic operatives, there's a lot of data there about who these people are. the acute messaging is you cannot give these people power. they will ending our democracy. they don't take public health crises seriously, they caused a lot of death. you would think you would pay a price for that. so that's on democratic candidates but it's also on citizens who feel that way. you cannot reward this kind of behavior where you say these people are crazy. they're not pushing vaccines enough. they seem okay with horse deworming. they're putting kids at risk, but i'm going to throw them a vote in 2022. so the rubber is hitting the road here. you're right, this should be a political loser for them but i think we're far from sure that it will be. >> michael steele said they also may be thinning their own herd. kim and david are sticking around. after the break for us, a big day in the effort to prosecute

those at the center of the january 6 insurrection at the united states capitol. and yet still scratching the surface on what is expected to be the largest prosecution in u.s. history. that story is next. at story is t at pnc bank, we believe in the power of the watch out. that's why we created low cash mode, the financial watch out that gives you the options and extra time needed to help you avoid an overdraft fee. it's one way we're making a difference. low cash mode on virtual wallet from pnc bank. low cash mode on up here, success depends on the choices you make.

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although today was a big one in the months' long effort to hold accountable those at the center of the january 6th insurrection at the u.s. capitol. plea deals have only been reached in about 1% of cases according to an nbc news count. let's bring into our conversation nbc washington investigative reporter scott mcfarland. kim and david are still with us. tell me about today. >> reporter: today we saw more plea agreements and more discussions of plea agreements and that's pivotal. it is clear there are three different tiers of cases. the highest tier, those confused of conspiracy, plotting, planning and staging guns outside the city limits, architects of confrontation. their cases are far down the horizon. trials are not likely until 2022. the lower tier cases we are seeing in rapid succession defendants flocking to plea deals in those acases, not accused of damage or assaulting anyone and they're flocking to it because so far they're not

getting prison time. they're getting home detention or, you know, probation release conditions. it is the middle tier that's interesting right now, nicolle. those accused of some assault, some damage, but not conspiracy. that's really where the rub iris about to hit the road. we have seen some defendants talk about plea deals. just today, just this afternoon daniel egvett of maryland was in court. he is accused of multiple physical confrontation with police, and prosecutors revealed they have a plea deal they will likely offer him in the coming days. he is charged with assaulting police and pled not guilty. if he were to take a plea deal, what is the penalty punishment he faces? in a similar case where a defendant was accused of assaulting police and pleaded guilty we heard the range, nicolle, about four or five years in prison but he hasn't gone to sentencing. does the judge go high above that, does the judge go low? nicolle, that could create another stampede of similar defendants who rush to plea deals or a rush of defendants who want to go to trial and take

their chances there. >> you know, for me after hearing the public testimony of officers dunn and fanone before the january 6th select committee, these crimes, we have now become familiar with the faces and voices of the victims. i want to ask you about another story that has broken about the capitol police officer suing donald trump and his allies over the lies and over the lies that led to january 6th specifically. let me read some of the reporting to you, scott. a group of seven capitol police officers filed a lawsuit on thursday accusing former president trump and nearly 20 members of far-right extremist groups and political organizations of a plot to disrupt the peaceful transition of power during the capitol riot on january 6th. three other similar lawsuits were filed in recent months. the suit on thursday was first to allege trump worked in concert with far-right extremists and political organizers promoting his baseless lies the presidential election was marred by fraud.

it feels like there's an increasing load of legal and in terms of what you cover sort of criminal investigations really starting to circle this ex-president. >> reporter: yeah, nicolle, one attorney not involved in the case said this civil lawsuit is trying to do perhaps what the justice department can't, which is say in unequivocal terms that there are people that instigated the insurrection and should be held liable, financially or otherwise. that being said, the testimony from those police officers had an impact politically obviously, but it is also striking that some of those officers, though cryptically named, are named in the charging documents. we are hearing vocal heartburn from judges about the plea deals, are these low-level plea deals enough of a deterrent to dissuade future mobs from future horrors and assaults on police officers. watch it over the coming weeks. do judges continue to express concern and try to influence or encourage a reexamining of the

deals? >> you know, kim, it is a remarkable body of sort of concern from the judges involved. i mean as scott has covered, they express concern about the climate, about the disinformation, about the lies that continue to be told. what do you make of where that investigation stands and the fact that so many of the more serious crimes won't be brought to trial for at least another many, many months? >> yeah, i think some of the comments that the judges have been making that scott talked about is really extraordinary. there is clearly a worry that in this avenue -- now, we are talking about the criminal justice system at work, at play here. that's separate from what congress is doing, that's separate from the civil suits. they're all separate and important aspects of justice, but that's not going to hold these people adequately accountable overall. you can't really break this out in individual pieces in this way and really get the result that is satisfactory for the justice

system. i think that's really extraordinary and it is important. i think that's one way that the civil suits serve such an important role, which is to understand the extent to which there was a conspiracy, that there was planning, that there were folks like these white nationalist groups that they're charged under what the called the ku klux klan act because of the nation's long history of when there have been attacks on democracy it was orchestrated by the worst elements of our society. we're seeing that ongoing. one thing that the civil suits will do is give us a lot more information about what went on through discovery, but in the meantime the criminal justice system is moving in this sort of piecemeal way that is not giving these judges much satisfaction in terms of the justice that's being meted out. >> we have the best person in the world to keep these in front of us. your reporting is so essential, scott macfarlane, thank you so much.

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country anymore. >> hi again, everyone. it is 5:00 in the east. the last time we heard a call to action like those calls from elected leaders and their friends we ended up with a deadly insurrection. so you can imagine the alarm we felt when we heard about this on sunday from congressman maddison cawthorn of north carolina as he was spreading false claims, lies about the 2020 election result at a local county republican event and talking about trying to help those charged in the capitol riot, people he calls political prisoners and political hostages. "washington post" is reporting this. quote, at one point a member of the crowd asked cawthorn, when are you going to call us to washington again? again? in response, cawthorn appeared to suggest that plans for a gathering were in the works, although he did not provide details. quote, that -- we are actively working on that one, he said. quote, i don't have an answer to that one right yet, but we are actively working on this. we have a few plans in motion

that i can't make public right now. actively working on what? well, we do not know exactly what the congressman is referring to there. we do a rally in support of those arrested in the justice department investigation of the insurrection is planned for september 18th here in washington, d.c. it is called justice for j6. metropolitan police is already preparing, saying it will activate its entire force that day. cawthorn didn't stop there with his alarming comments. nbc news is reporting he also said this. quote, the thing that we are wanting to fight for, it doesn't matter if our votes don't count because, you know, if our election systems continue to be rigged and continue to be stolen, then it's going to lead to one place, and it's bloodshed. he continues. there's more. quote, i will tell you, as much as i am willing to defend our liberty at all costs, there is

nothing that i would dread doing more than having to pick up arms against a fellow american. cawthorn spokesman luke ball told "the washington post" that he was, quote, in no way supporting or advocating for any form of violence, end quote. but following january 6th we already know the damage, we already know what people hear when these comments are made, which is why the work of the january 6th select committee investigating just what happened and just as importantly what led to that day and who led to that day is so vitally important. yesterday we learned more about who the committee is interested in and asked 35 telecommunication and social media companies the committee asked for phone records and other relevant information from at least 11 republicans and some of those in trump's orbit. no surprise, cawthorn is among them. a congressman already under scrutiny making new, alarming, escalating, disturbing comments around that big lie is where we start this hour with some of our

favorite reporters and friends. congresswoman madelene dean is here, a member of the house judiciary committee. joining us, luke broad water, congressional reporter for "the new york times." frank figliuzzi is here, former fbi assistant director for counterterrorism, now the host of "the bureau" podcast and lucky for us an msnbc national security analyst. congresswoman, i saw this and i wonder if you think he was visited by folks in charge of protecting all of you. what did you think when you heard these comments? >> well, shocking yet again. it is good to be with you, nicolle, and, of course, your other guests and panelists who will shed some light on this. but what we know is that, sadly, the trump machine as well as extremist groups are not through. so when you have a sitting member of congress, a freshman member of congress, spewing these kinds of threats, we have a serious problem on our hands. that's why i'm very glad that the select committee is at work,

is collecting documents, is preserving records, because what does it tell us about representative cawthorn when he talks about threatened bloodshed. when he talks about -- i have to tell you, nicolle, i don't even know what it means, that he would dread taking up arms against other americans. i tell you what i dread is a repetition of americans attacking americans as they did on january 6th. >> well, i mean, congresswoman, i think we know what he is talking about. i mean he says it right there. i would dread it. he doesn't say he wouldn't do it. he just says, oh, if i had to do that i would dread it. he doesn't say, i wouldn't do it. he doesn't say, i don't want you to do it. we are living under a publicized domestic violent extremism threat from the department of homeland security that is all rooted in two things. one, public health recommendations, and, two, the big lie. what should the response be if

the republican party, at least on the house side, was functioning? >> well, if the republican party were functioning -- it is not and you know that, but certainly the republican party should root out members who would spew such anti-american, unamerican concepts. again, this is a man who took the oath of office to protect and secure our constitution and the safety of his constituents and all of america. apparently he doesn't understand what democracy is. a functioning republican party would put an end to this. a functioning republican conference under leader mccarthy would put an end to this. they should see the dangerous nature of this, and i would be interested to hear what the director thinks, the former director thinks. this is extraordinary dangerous rhetoric coming from a sitting member of congress, let alone a sitting person sitting outside of the capitol to threaten continuing violence?

did they learn nothing from january 6th? do they realize that every single one of our lives was at stake? that what trump incited, alongside extremist groups, terrorists, domestic terrorists, was an attempted overthrow of our government, an attempt to take out those in the line of succession including hanging the vice president and killing the speaker of the house. does maddison cawthorn not get this? >> i want to bring you into this, frank, with the congresswoman. when law enforcement hears there are plans that the congressman won't make public yet and we know events are part of sort of the qanon and part of the domestic terrorist threat, what happens inside law enforcement. >> i have had a conversation today with federal law enforcement contacts about this and about plans for september 18th, which is the permitted

rally called justice for january 6th that is going to happen in d.c. let's go to the january 6th rally for september 18th. clearly federal law enforcement is all over this. they're monitoring for violent plans. they're checking all intelligence. they're working together like never before. i am confident they're on top of what may be playing out and may, in fact, be able to preempt any violence that might be planned for that day. but there's still concern there. they were less willing to talk, of course, about the rhetoric, the dangerous rhetoric of elected officials because these elected officials, let's be clear here, they're hiding behind their member of congress lapel pin. they're hoping that if someone comes at them they're going to say that their rights are being infringed. here is the game that's being played, particularly with cawthorn. you saw how quickly his spokesperson back pedalled,

walked him back from these statements, but you can't have it both ways. you can't speak to bloodshed, you can't speak to we have secret plans to call you back to washington. these are political hostages that need to, quote, be busted out of prison and we don't know where they are and there's secret locations, we don't know where all of these people are being held, which is utter nonsense, and then keep repeating the lie of fraud, election fraud, and biden's not the president. then have your spokesperson walk away from it. my sources would simply say this. they're as aware of these public statements as we all are. they're not operating in a vacuum. it appears cawthorn has not gotten the memo, the memo that almost 600 americans are going to prison for what happened on january 6th, the memo that you get sued even by capitol police officers and by victims of january 6th when you incite riot. he's not looking at what is happening to donald trump and cable news networks being sued. he doesn't get the responsibility that comes with being a member of congress to

speak in measured tones, to get your facts right. he has got it all wrong, and he is going to be thrown in with a lot that's inciting radicalism and violence. i think he's going to be held accountable. now, the first step in my opinion would be for the speaker of the house to hold him accountable. in an ideal world, which we do not live in, mccarthy would hold him accountable, but you know that that's not going to happen. >> i do know that, but let me hang a lantern around my own history in the republican party. republicans right now think they finally got something on joe biden, president joe biden. they think that they can turn ending the war in afghanistan, something that 54% of americans support even right now, even after the tragedies we've witnessed, that they can turn the country's attention back to the threat of violence and the threat of terrorism. they are the threat of violence. the republican party is what is

inciting potential violent extremism and violent events, and i wonder, very serious question, you did the first bit of reporting about associations and contacts and joint appearances between republican house members and some of the same right-wing extremist groups that are now under scrutiny by the justice department, and i wonder what you make of this rhetoric and this framing by this congressman about continued rigging, continued stealing of the election. they're not talking about it in the past tense. they view this as an ongoing lie that they must continue to tell. >> well, yes. i think the best thing -- >> i think we've got -- >> sorry. >> -- what the -- oh, sorry. go ahead. >> go ahead, luke. >> exactly what the select committee is investigating right now, they've sort of broken up their investigation into three avenues. the first is the spread of

disinformation, namely the big lie. as you heard in that -- in those comments by congressman cawthorn, the big lie is alive and well and is still being repeated, and that is the basis for why january 6th originally happened. the second lane that they're investigating is plotting inside the trump administration or through his associates to overturn the election, moving forward that fake slate of electors, trying to pressure vice president pence and members of congress to vote for the fake slate of electors rather than the legitimately elected electors by the people. then the third lane is ties to extremists which we saw play out on january 6th. you're right, we do have well-documented examples of members of congress who have no ties to extremist groups, that appeared with them in public, associating with them,

communicating with them, going to their events. here you just had the latest rhetoric where one of the right-wing members is, again, using that violent rhetoric, is again repeating the big lie, and there haven't been any real consequences from members of congress who have done this so far. no one has been stripped of a committee. no one has lost a leadership position. in fact, the only person that's happened to is someone who stood up against the big lie, and that's liz cheney. >> isn't that the most ironic part of all of this? i need you to explain this to me, luke broadwater. this is ron johnson, seeming to -- let's put this under reaping what he has sown news. let's watch. >> -- the only reason trump lost wisconsin, is that 51,000 republican voters voted for other candidates. >> i don't see it, i don't

believe it. >> look at the totals. it is certainly plausible. there's nothing obviously -- there's nothing obviously skewed about the results. collectively republicans got 1.661 million votes. 51,000 more votes than trump got. trump lost by 20,000. trump got all of the republicans, voted for trump the way they he voted for assembly candidates, he would have won. he didn't get 51,000 votes that other republicans got. that's why he lost. >> luke, i always thought this was going to be where the rubber met the road. there's nothing wrong with the election, i'm here, i'm here, i won, they liked me. i always thought this moment would come when they would defend the integrity of the 2020 election on their line of the ballot, and there it was from none other than ron johnson. >> right. it is kind of a hard argument to make that we picked up seats in the house of representatives on the same fraudulent ballots that were supposedly shipped in from china or somewhere and gave the

election to joe biden. ron johnson, you know, i will give him credit there, he laid out to a constituent why the election wasn't stolen, that down-ballot republicans got many more votes in wisconsin than donald trump did and he just wasn't as popular. he lost republican votes, and that's why he lost wisconsin. you know, maybe he thought it was a private moment and no one was going to see it, i don't know. but there you had him leveling with a constituent and telling the truth, which he had actually never seen any real fraud in his state, and so everything about that was pretty much a lie. >> it is an unbelievable, i guess, nearing full circle. i want to ask you about the names, congresswoman dean, that we have for exactly who's contacts and calls are sought. we have talked about a lot of these people. i want to put your thap names. lauren boebert of colorado. jim jordan of ohio. mo brooks. we saw him there at the

beginning of the hour. matt gaetz, accused child sex trafficker on top of that. louie gohmert. marjorie taylor greene. jody hice. scott perry. there's an intersection between the list and the folks that luke broadwater has written about having public comments and associations with white nationalists and extremist groups. i wonder where you think this process is and what you think the records revealed and what sort of fight you see ahead for this select committee. >> well, also on that list is representative jordan and other members that i serve with on the judiciary committee. you noticed just recently representative jordan is very glib and speaks with ease when he is talking about dishonest things, when he is lying, it comes to him with ease. you notice how he stammered when he was asked about whether or not he had spoken with the president on january 6th? he couldn't come out with a straight line. so what is good is that this

select committee that is populated by such extraordinary members of congress, so unlike mr. cawthorn and the others that you are talking about, they will get the records. they will see who was complicit in terms of whether it was supporting donald trump and his lies. remember, this is -- these are lies that took place over months and months and months, and then finally in the weeks coming up to the election. and then, of course, following the election. even his own attorney general in the last waning hours of the administration had to quit and say, no, there was no fraud here. what is common between mitch mcconnell, leader mccarthy, mr. cawthorn, senator johnson, do you notice what they do? they speak out of both sides of their mouth. so they play one set of tapes to their base for political purposes and they play the other very minutely, very seldomly,

when the truth is actually obvious. it is a despicable position they are in. they do not -- they're not worthy of the oath of office, and i hope that ultimately their voters and constituents will say, "you are not worthy, you are being literally unamerican in trying to incite further harm." and so we have to be very mindful. 1/6 is not over. as the representative said, it sounds like he might even be a part of some planning for further violence or americans attacking americans. it couldn't be more serious than this. the select committee will get to the bottom of it, but we need to protect our democracy in the meantime. >> frank figliuzzi, i will give you the last word on what is a really -- i won't call it a crush, but a series of reports about jim jordan's contacts with donald trump. "politico" has another bit of reporting about jordan telling "politico" he's sure of one of the trump-involved calls that took place in the safe room,

that stammering interview, with a great reporter in his home state who he seemed to take him totally by surprise. what does it say about kevin mccarthy who had to have known that, that he wanted to throw or rigor ruin the 1/6 committee by putting someone he had to know was a witness on it? >> i think we now know why nancy pelosi had to reject jim jordan. he is a fact witness and he's going to get a very complicated future ahead of him. here is why. first, his claims that he can't remember how many times on january 6th he called the president or what time of day, that's easily remedied by simply checking your phone log and checking that date. if he can't do it, the phone company will be more than happy to supply the select committee with that. that's going to happen eventually. next, he's in a trick bag because if he concedes, as has been reported, that he actually called the president and said, "stand this crowd down, they're inside, it is getting violent, you've got to stop them," that

implies, of course, that he believed trump controlled the crowd and had the ability to stop or start the crowd. that's damming for trump. of course, it hurts him because if he thinks the people were violent he goes back home to ohio and his voter base says, wait a minute, those were patriots, those weren't violent people. so he can't win there either. this gets extremely complicated. the other end of that conversation, if trump is telling him and he is going to be asked this question about trump's response, hey, i like what is going on, what are you talking about, what are you, a wimp, then we have a problem with the president. it is no win for jim jordan. that's where it is going. that's why he couldn't serve on the select committee. we're about to learn a whole lot more about subpoenas and phone records. >> congresswoman dean and frank

figliuzzi and mr. broadwater, thank you so much. the strictest of which right now is probably in texas. one of the state's democratic leaders will be our next guest as the bill takes another step closer to becoming law. plus, what is being done to combat the shocking rise in hate crimes in america in the year 2020? new fbi numbers pate a very disturbing picture that civil rights groups say is far from complete. dramatic images of rescues from the floodwaters of hurricane ida. with the power still out and temperatures rising, louisiana's governor has an urgent warning for residents. do not return home until it is safe. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. anywhere. ♪♪

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we're on the verge of a dramatic escalation in the gop war on voting rights. in texas the house and senate have been playing ping-pong with their brutally restrictive bill, working on its final language. this afternoon the house there adopted what is called a conference committee report. hours later the senate followed suit with a party-line vote, all before it heads to governor abbott's desk where it will almost certainly be signed into law. the timetable on that, a matter of days. as the clock ticks down, voting rights advocates have said it again. the clearest path, at this point the only path to a remedy is federal voting rights legislation, seemingly held up or challenged now by the prospect of a republican filibuster. the question on the table is, is what we are seeing to voting rights in the states across the country really a five-alarm fire

in washington. do washington democrats see it as an existential threat to our democracy? if so, why isn't this white house taking action. joining our coverage, jasmine crockett. of course, it came across my phone when we were waiting to talk to you this bill is steaming through the legislature there. how does it feel after all of the efforts that you and your colleagues took to leave the state, basically be in exile in washington, and then come home and see it speed through? >> in short, i'm hurt. i'm not hurting for myself. i'm hurting for texans. i'm hurting for my constituents. you know, this is not a day that i was looking forward to. it is not that i was naive and thought that this day would not come. i knew this day was coming. i had just hoped that washington would act before my colleagues here in austin would act and, hopefully, provide some cover.

so to me it is a very solemn day. what happens next for you, for your fight? >> yeah, so the next part of this is redistricting, right. this is a one-two punch that republicans are trying to deliver, not only in the state of texas but throughout this country. number one, they need to make sure that they gerrymander their lines to keep power. number two, they have to minimize the minorities that do exist within those lines, minimize their voices. so the next part of this is going to be redistricting. i fully plan to show up and fight for redistricting. we have to make sure we have a record because we will be kicking that directly to the courts along with the voting legislation. the difference is will we have some sort of legislation in place so that it can provide guidance to the courts about what does discrimination look like. does this classify? does this violate federal law? as of now we know that these states have been pushing forward

with this legislation because they know that there's no oversight, because for whatever reason the supreme court decided we don't need those protections anymore. i guess they thought that racism didn't exist anymore. i'm not really sure. we know it is alive and well, and we know specifically it is alive and well here in the state of texas. >> let me just put up for our viewers, because i feel like one of the services that you guys all provided in washington was educating lawmakers and a lot of people in the media about what the texas voter suppression law did. we should always point out none of these measures yielded any fraud in the state. the republican attorney general spent a lot of texans' money, didn't find any fraud, but these things are curtailed or banned. drive-through early voting, banned in the new texas bill. overnight early voting, banned in the texas voter suppression law. it restricts vote by mail, something that came in very

handy for everyone during the global pandemic. it adds new requirements for people who help voters, the kinds of people who look for help are oftentimes older or folks with disabilities. criminal penalties are imposed on election workers and more power is given to partisan poll watchers, the kind of folks that donald trump hauled into the white house to try to sway the 2020 election result. what will the result be of this law? >> you know, that's a scary thought, honestly. one of the amendments that my colleagues tried to get on was that insurrectionists could not be partisan poll watchers because we know who wants to go into the urban centers, wants to go to those diverse areas and wants to intimidate, and we know it is the insurrection types. it is the proud boys. they're the ones that want to go in and, quote, unquote, police our elections. sadly enough, that amendment failed.

the main opponent to that amendment is one of our colleagues who did participate in the insurrection, and he attempted to somehow down play what it was. i guess he thought that he was on a tour as well. and so we know that that's going to happen. we know that people will decide, you know what? it is not worth it to go and vote because i don't want to risk going to jail or i don't want to risk going to prison because i've got a family to take care of, and if i don't understand this law, then i may go to jail. that's what they're trying to do. sadly enough, so long as federal legislation is not put in place they will absolutely be able to do this. they will absolutely be able to depress the voices of the 95% people of color that grew this state over the last decade. that was the scariest thing. i don't even think it was trump's big lie that was so bad. i think that they are admitting that trump lost at this point. i think what is scarier is the fact that the white population

in this country for the first time decreased. i think the color is scarier than anything. >> i think you are absolutely right about what is fuelling, what is sort of the brush that keeps fuelling the 400 laws racing through 48 states. i wonder if you can give me sort of a clear-eyed assessment of what you expect from democrats in the senate? >> clear-eyed, that's funny that you said that. >> you are always clear eyed. just give it to me straight. >> you know, i have got to keep hope alive, right. one of the reasons that i was kind of frustrated about the fact that my colleagues went back is i felt like it was premature. i felt like, you know, we still had one more step to take. we at least heard the president say something about both hr-1 and hr-4. once hr-4 passed out of the house, we saw that the house came back early from recess for

the purpose of trying to get this legislation passed. we saw the great work that congresswoman sheila jackson-lee made sure that she included in that bill, a look-back provision. now, i don't know if that provision will survive in the senate. i don't know that the bill itself will survive, but i do know that there are people fighting in the u.s. house. i know that there have been people fighting in the texas legislature, and, honestly, it became very apparent that people in georgia, in arizona and other states where they just didn't have the numbers to break quorum that they were fighting as well and they joined us in this fight. so, you know, the idea that two democrats may hold us up because republicans are doing what republicans are going to do, right. they have been obstructionists. they have only done things that make sense for them and their base, and their base is the 1 percenters, it is not the far reiters. they just need the far reiters far righters. so the base is the 1 percenters.

the only thing we're asking the democratic senators to do is do everything they can to protect and up hold the constitution and protect this country. it is not just democrats protected at the ballot. it is everybody. >> do you watch the reaction to president biden ending the war in afghanistan and republicans losing their minds that we're going to stop trying to bring democracy to afghanistan while every hour of every day they're destroying ours? >> yeah, you know, it is funny because republicans look for a quick talking point. that's all they do. they look for talking points. they look for places to pivot. they look for something to arouse some sort of emotional response, and that's exactly what they've done. but i don't understand how we can deal with democracy abroad when we can't take care of democracy at home. my granny used to always say,

you got to take care of home first. so that's what we're dealing with right now. and i -- you know, this started off with us being in our texas bubble. it became obvious that there was a greater threat that was spreading throughout this country, but, sadly enough, we are supposed to be the leaders when it comes to democracy. we are supposed to be the model. so i am concerned not only what is going to happen in our country but abroad in general. if democracy fails here, i don't know that it can survive anywhere else. >> i agree with you, and i think when people look back on this era and they try to figure out what the most horrible thing was, it is difficult, right? because donald trump's indifference to covid was an atrocity. the insurrection was a horror and it is ongoing, but this, 400 voter suppression bills racing through 48 states that will permanently change not just who gets to vote but who counts all of our votes, is an unbelievable

wound, gaping wound in our democracy. i appreciate you for staying on the issue, for staying on the fight, and for joining us to talk about it. texas state representative jasmine crockett, thank you so much for spending some time with us. >> thanks, nicolle. coming up, a disturbing rise in hate crimes across this country. why it is happening and what is being done about it when we come back. pnc bank believes that if a pair of goggles can help your backhand get better... yeah! ...then your bank should help you budget even better. (laughing) virtual wallet® is so much more than a checking account. its low cash mode feature gives you at least 24 hours of extra time to help you avoid an overdraft fee. you see that? virtual wallet® with low cash mode from pnc bank. one way we're making a difference. (chimes) i'm so glad you're ok, sgt. houston. this is sam with usaa. do you see the tow truck? yes, thank you, that was fast. sgt. houston never expected this to happen.

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in a year of a global

pandemic, a presidential election that is still being lied about by some republicans, an economic upheaval, we are getting terrifying new statistics that suggest 2020 was also one of the worst years for hate crimes. according to the fbi hate crimes rose to their highest level in 12 years, increasing 6% from last year with more than 7,700 hate crimes reported. it is also the sixth time in seven years there's been an increase in crimes. hate crimes against black americans rose from 1,930 to 2,755. the number targeting asian-americans jumped from 158 to 274. civil rights groups have cited the country's racial reckoning and the protests surrounding the murder of george floyd as well as the disgraced ex-president's xenophobic rhetoric regarding the origins of the coronavirus as the main proponents for these spikes. let's bring into our coverage

pulitzer prize winning "washington post" journalist eugene wallace. we have been having this conversation for five years now, three of us, about the damage the ex-president -- and i really don't care about him, but what trumpism brought, ripped us apart at our seams. it would appear that in the extreme that yielded more violence, eugene. >> well, it did yield more violence and more division, but one thing i think we need to remember, nicolle, or we need to realize is that while trump loosed the demons, the demons -- or at least the foundation of what is happening was already there. so trump in a sense is a symptom. he is an enabler, but he allowed to express itself, all of this

hatred. i think, frankly, a lot of it fundamentally has to do with the fact that the white population of this country declined and that people -- and that has set the stage for a lot of what's happening in our politics and what has been happening in the last few years. >> eugene, i want to read a little bit from your piece today and make this leap. you write, "i can't help but imagine what today's twitter trolls would have said about president franklin d. roosevelt on the day after pearl harbor. i shoulder to think what contemporary conspiracy theorists might have said about jonas salk's polio disease. we eradicated polio in the united states through universal vaccination, despite some early setbacks in public confidence about the safety of vaccines, but today even public health is used as a wedge issue and

opportunistic republican governors have sought to boost their careers by portraying sensible measures against the coronavirus such as mask wearing and vaccination as tyranical assaults on personal freedom. i brought it in because it is that people would rather endanger their kids and themselves by eating cow dewormer rather than taking an fda vaccine, makes me want to ask if the country is still governable. >> it is a good question. as you read the column, it is basically about how right now we are facing these crises, right. we have the chaotic withdrawal from afghanistan. we've got hurricane ida and the devastation of louisiana, which may not recover for weeks or a month or longer, and we've got covid which is back, which is back, you know, in a way that should be alarming everybody in

this country, and yet there are people who rather than face that fact just take one of the crises, prefer to take the cow dewormer. so how do you -- how does any president unite the country in a time of crisis when the country absolutely refuses to be united? they would rather take cow dewormer rather than be united. that's an extreme circumstance but that's where we are. >> i am cutting to the point too, curt, where i know republicans have turned into folks who are unrecognizable to former republicans like you and i, but who wants to lead the people that want to take the cow dewormer instead of the vaccine? >> well, apparently people like madison cawthorn or pennsylvania congressman scott perry or kevin mccarthy. i mean everything you have talked about your show today, it really -- there's a line directly to what we are talking

about with the rise in hate crimes. you look at someone like madison cawthorn calling for basically encouraging another insurrection. i think back to the capitol police officer who testified about how on that day on january 6th he was being called racial slurs. he was being called the "n" world for the first time in his life while wearing a uniform, that was directed at him by the mob that came on january 6th. why did they come? because they want to advance the myth that the election was rigged. why do think they it was rigged? because people of color are voting, because people of color are showing up. why are all of the states passing anti-democratic legislation to restrict voting? because they don't want people of color to show up and vote. you look at scott perry from pennsylvania who said in an interview on sunday he voted against raising the cap and making it easier for afghan refugees to come here because, quote, he didn't want them to rape our little girls and murd el them in our streets. this type of xenophobia. this type of racism has become codified in the republican party, and they use it as the excuse to justify encouraging

insurrection, fomenting dissension which paves the way to violence which is why we have a siege on our capitol with hate crimes going up. by the way, as bad as the numbers are a lot worse. more than 60 cities with a population over 100,000 people, they reported zero hate crimes. they're not reporting the data, not keeping track of it. as bad as it is, we know it is worse. as long as one of the two major political parties in america is determined to endorse this type of racism, foment this type of violence, we will have big problems on our hands. >> curt, this president signed hate crime legislation into law. what is sort of the lag time between having a leader that is -- that ran on healing the country, that is trying to be the healer of all of these divisions? obviously when you have got half the country misinformed or disinformed it is not going to take everywhere. >> well, i think this is, you know, really what eugene was so artful in writing. there is a segment of this

population that under any scenario, they don't want to unite. they would rather poison themselves and do what is in the best interests of themselves, their family and their children, they would rather stick to their cultive personality than do what is in their best interests. as long as that's the case and as long as that's becoming mainstream within one of the two major political parties in america, it is only going to get worse. i believe in joe biden's sincerity that he wants to unite the country. i believe he wants to do the right things and use government as an instrument to heal some of the wounds. the fact of the matter is we see every day there are people in this country with no interest participating in that conversation, who will rise up against people who want to lead that conversation, and as long as that's the case i don't know if there's a way out of this. it is like the question you asked eugene. are we ungovernable? are we at a point where there's no way to get beyond this? we might be here at this point because if you are willing to poison yourself instead of listen to base, common sense, there's no saving you. >> eugene robinson, kurt bar

delli, thank you for being with us. rescue operations continue after hurricane ida. we will get a live report from louisiana after a quick break. don't go anywhere. eak. don't go anywhere. paul loves food. but his diabetes made food a mystery. everything felt like a “no.” but then paul went from no to know. with freestyle libre 14 day, now he knows how food affects his glucose. and he knows when to make different choices. take the mystery out of your glucose levels - and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free. visit freestylelibre.us

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make your next project like no other. hurricane ida is now a tropical depression. but it continues to make its way across the south and the mid-atlantic wreaking havoc after becoming one of the most powerful storms to hit the mainland. last night the death toll rose

to four. eye 50 foot stretch of highway collapse in mississippi after sustained rains for 24 hours. they expect the death toll will rise in the coming days. water rescue operations are ongoing in louisiana where more than 1 million homes and businesses remain without power for the second straight day. energy companies say it could take weeks to get all of the power restored to parts of the state. and the governor is warning evacuated residents not to go home until it is deemed safe. let's bring in allison barber live in new orleans. tell us how people are doing and what instructions are being given? >> reporter: the governor has told people that if you are without power, those homes will probably be without power for quite a while. for a lot of people, places like this this is the only little bit of relief from the heat. the buses here are turned on so people have an opportunity to get a little bit of

air-conditioning. they have a charging station where they're using generators to people to get battery for phones on the the other side there is a place where if people need a meal they could come and get food. but the problem from so many people cross the city is that it is difficult to figure out where these locations are because they don't have power at home. they have no way to charge their phones, many people are running out of gas, atm's aren't working so they have can't get resources via cash because the machines are down and many people didn't expect this to happen and take out cash. a lot of people are dealing with the reality that they could be in this situation for quite a while now. and it is stressful and it is devastating and it is taking a toll. listen to some of what we're heard. >> this i heard word of mouth. everybody cell phones, as far as internet access and stuff, is low. i'm personally, i'm at 30%.

there is no electrical service. there is -- that means you can't buy gas. you can't buy food. we can't even go to the atm. so everybody is on the the same level. >> my father said he's on dialysis so we have to find some way to get his treatment. >> it is miserable. and basically i'm just dealing with it the only thing that i'm concerned about is my dad. >> reporter: the new orleans city council said they are discussing with the power company about possible ways to get some power back in new orleans within the next 48 hours. one of options is use ug the power lines that aren't severely damaged to sort of make their own grid here in new orleans. that would be a really big thing if they're able to get some power back in the next 48 hours because right now it is pitch black and when people are trying to find relief, there is nowhere relief for them to go except for

a few little pockets like this. but any bit of relief would be helpful. but in saint charles parish, they told them to maybe not have power for at least a month. the companies are still out doing damage assessments to see how quickly they could get power back on but the damage assessments could take up to three days before they have a good timetable for people at home in the middle of a heat wave without power. nicolle. >> allison, are they having a hard team moving people to cooling centers or to safer circumstances especially for women who you interviewed, because of the concerns about kroed -- about covid. >> >> reporter: it is compounding. hospitals already dealing with a surge of need because of covid-19. this is a state where only 41% of people are fully vaccinated. that is going on. in addition to this. so hospitals, they're running on

generators but some hospitals had to do evacuations. at one point there was a hospital where one the generators failed and they had to hand pump until they could get them to a different floor. so they're dealing with all of that. and then there seems like at times there is not enough resources to create spaces like this or as many in the community feel they need for cooling centers or other type of resources because i have a disaster that was already taking place we're had covid-19 in addition to the disaster going on right now because of the hurricane. nicolle. >> thank you so much for your report. we will be right back after a quick break. don't go anywhere. a quick break. don't go anywhere. great. the storm alert... dad. and the subtle but effective ding. that's why we created low cash mode. the financial watch out that gives you the options

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there is good news to tell you about today in the fight against covid-19 with our strongest weapon, vaccines, the white house announced a recent acceleration in getting the shots. the most in almost two months last week and according to a new poll vaccine hesitancy is showing signs of crumbling due in part to the rising vaccine mandates. with 80% after dults saying they will have or will get the vaccine being the most ever. 43% saying their boss requiring vaccinations would make them likely to get it. that is up ten points in the last month. thanks for letting us into your home during these extraordinary times. we are gateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. >> hi, nicolle. i'm curious what you think we've

been covering this but on a day like today, the president has his somber duty, what do we as americans try to take from marking this today. >> oh, it is such a good question. i think that the burden is on people like you and me to hear what the american people are saying. and even in light of what has been so tragic, the terrorist attack last thursday outside of the airport in kabul, 45% of americans right now today in the midst of that support ending this war in afghanistan. and i think that this president is in line with the views and the opinions of the majority of americans on this question of do you have to leave sometime. there is no good time. it is interesting to see how long this remains a front burner issue for him in this white house. >> yeah, and you use that word "time." we've all talked about how long it has been and whether the public