their $3.5 trillion package that would cover clean energy to the child tax credit. they are aiming to have all committees approve their portions of the infrastructure legislation by this wednesday. however, challenges still loom large in order for the bill to reach the president biden's desk and be signed into law. it will need the support of the house and all senate democrats. you heard that right. considering how vocal west virginia senator jim manchin has been about his opposition toward the overall price tag of the package, party unity is not necessarily a given. although the house ways and means committee has yet to release the finalized text outlining how the budget reconciliation bill would be paid for, we are getting a clear look at what portion of the package includes. this coming tuesday the committee is set to review a new section of the bill that would extend the expanded child tax credit which has already helped

countless families. joining me is anna palmer, the founder and ceo of punch bowl news and contributor. also best-selling author of "the hill to die on: the battle for congress and the future of trump's america." thank you for joining me. first of all, what is the likelihood that we are going to see the $3.5 trillion package that has been so important in the biden administration to be passed? >> we are far off of that as well. it seems like we're slowly going towards that. democrats have a lot of disputes internally from the progressives to the more moderates. how they're going to cobble this together is still very unclear that contours of those fights coming together with bernie sanders really pushing for the $3.5 trillion and joe manchin saying he'd only vote for $1.5 trillion. that's a big difference. they'll have to find a way to

get together on those issues. >> what is the likelihood? democrats have been saying they want to pass the infrastructure bill and reconciliation bill at the same time. what do you see as the likelihood of that and what happens to progressives if the reconciliation bill basically becomes separated and a standstill. >> yeah, it's going to be very hard for speaker nancy pelosi. she has been on this two-track process for several months now saying that's how it must go. that's just a reality check for her own caucus because she knows she needs both the progressives and the moderates while she has teed up the infrastructure bill for that september 27th vote, she could move it. and she may move it. we don't know yet. we're not getting signals but it's hard to see the reconciliation package would be ready by that time. these are going to start to come to the fore in the next couple of weeks. the house only has eight days that it's in session this month, so there's a lot of things that need to happen, including government funding, raising the

debt ceiling and a slew of other things that are must-pass at this point. >> what do you think gets cut out of this human infrastructure reconciliation bill? >> what you're seeing is these conflicting priorities. bernie sanders who is really, you know, stuck to his guns when it comes to the expansion of medicare. that's something they need to figure out how big that's going to be and even big question is where do some of these tax increases. the business lobby going very hard against that. they'll have to find a way to pay for it. and then other priorities like pre-k for president joe biden or pelosi trying to make obamcare funding mechanisms permanent. you have these conflicting areas and we don't know what is going to get cut. that's going to happen in the next couple of weeks as we start to see the house ways and means committee. their work come to fruition. as you see some of these higher level negotiations that came

both pelosi and schumer while they try to get their members on board. >> everything you say sparks my interest, but really it's this idea that joe manchin is the one that is preventing the bill from coming to fruition, but west virginia is an energy state, so to speak. they get most of their jobs are from energy dependence. so we're talking about how do we modernize that sector of our country. it's also one of the poorest states in the nation. so when we talk about this idea that west virginians are going to get medicare basically taken away from them. i'm sorry, not expanded. that they'll not be able to actually enjoy expanded tax credits for children, how does he explain that to his constituency given where they are socio economically, sadly? >> i think joe manchin understands his constituents probably better than i or you might. and he is very -- he's a very

moderate democrat. and that is, you know, he's the only democrat from west virginia that is in elected office at the federal level. he's going to be pushing congress to minimize this. he's not alone. he's just the tip of the spear for moderates. you have kyrsten sinema who has raised some alarm bells at this $3.5 trillion figure. and even jim clyburn who will be on later this hour who said maybe it's not $3.5 trillion or $1.5 trillion but somewhere in the middle. there is some negotiation at the top level that we're going to see in the next coming weeks. >> again, founder of punchbowl news. joining me is jim clyburn of south carolina. he serves as majority whip in the house of representatives. thank you for joining us this morning. congressman, you heard anna palmer talk about the fight that is expected between -- amongst democrats with the reconciliation bill. what do you have to say on how to meet the moment and how to

ensure the president has that full package? >> first of all, thank you very much for having me. you know, i think what we have to do is really start thinking about this as a build back better plan. now the question then becomes when you look at this bill, 118 pages, i think, is what i looked at so far this weekend. and you see, in each category, how much money can be appropriated by categories and where -- how much deficit reduction will be required or how you might add to the debt. this is a very complicated process. and when all of the experts have looked at all of this and they are saying that what they are talking about now is around a $3.5 trillion program. now i don't know that you get to that number when you start going through each category. it may be more and it may be

less in order to do what the president would like to have done. so i think what we have to do is just focus on the programs that need -- we need to get done. for instance, yes, i know that some are pushing to expand medicare and bring in other services. i am pushing to close the coverage gap that exists with medicaid recipients. they've got 12 states in this country where they are low-income people getting very little medical attention because we had this big gap there. i want to see medicaid treated the same way we treat medicare. medicare is there for people who are millionaires and so long as they meet the age criteria. what about that 19-year-old who is in a family that's not getting medicaid? what do we do about that

19-year-old? so these are the kinds of negotiations that are taking place. and i would hope that we will focus on what we need to do and then worry about the price tag after we get done what needs to be done. we've got $65 billion for the internet or broadband in the so-called bipartisan bill. but we need $100 billion in order to get broadband in every home in america. so i want to focus on how do we get that other $35 billion so that every family, low-income neighborhoods have access to the internet like other neighborhoods have access. that's the stuff we need to focus on. when you tell me we have $65 billion for broadband in the so-called bipartisan bill so we don't need have any more money in the $3.5 trillion bill or the so-called build back better bill, i got a problem with that

because of my experiences in this country and in this state. i know where that two-thirds is going to be spent. it's not going to be spent in low-income neighborhoods unless we ensure that it gets done. so let's stop arguing about the number and start looking at the programs that those numbers apply to. >> congressman, what is novel and refreshing is that you are saying, let's tackle what we need to do and then we can discuss what the number is going to be. and you're right. i believe this is a moment in american history we can level up and make sure that we are creating a budget that's inclusive of every single american and american child regardless of zip code. so i have a question for you because it seems the reconciliation package, the person that seems to be the biggest obstacle is senator manchin. how your having conversations with him?

he also steams have come along. he has his own piece of legislation. what's the likelihood of convincing him that we need have it, need to pass it, sidestep the filibuster to encourage people to participate in the elections like last time. what words do you have for senator manchin? >> i think what you said earlier, you were right on point. let's focus on west virginia. i know a little bit about west virginia. they've got two traditionally hbcus there. what are we doing for those institutions? i know they aren't majority minority anymore but historically they are. what are we doing about those institutions, about the medicaid recipients or the lack thereof in west virginia? these are the things i think we can focus on them. that is what will appeal to manchin, not just arguing here

about the number but focusing on the people in west virginia that will benefit from the programs. and let's put the programs in place and apply the budget layer. that is what i think is going to be required. getting him to understand, yes, we want to take care of medicare but medicaid is impossible -- is possible for us also. and let's be equiable with our spending. everybody always tell me how efficient government ought to be. i want to know how equitable government is going to be. so that everybody will get treated fairly in this process. that's what happened in the great depression. yes, we came back from the great depression. but we created these pockets of poverty, many of whom i'm trying to represent here in south carolina today. i don't want to see us do build back better and create pockets

of poverty by leaving low-income medicare recipients out of this formula as we take care of millionaires who get medicare. >> thank you congressman james clyburn for speaking truth and advocating for every single american. democrat from south carolina, i appreciate your joining me this morning. >> thank you. it may be midmonth, but for millions of americans, paying rent is always top of mind. numbers show how desperate the potential for evictions has become all over the united states. then, the fight is far from over. we have the latest on texas' shocking abortion law that blindsided the nation. and showcasing the pride and culture of hispanic heritage for a whole month from mexico to spain. so much to acknowledge. more from the significance ahead. for skin that never holds you back don't settle for silver #1 for diabetic dry skin* #1 for psoriasis symptom relief*

and #1 for eczema symptom relief* gold bond champion your skin what happens when we welcome change? gold bond we can make emergency medicine possible at 40,000 feet. instead of burning our past for power, we can harness the energy of the tiny electron. we can create new ways to connect. rethinking how we communicate to be more inclusive than ever. with app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps companies navigate change.

faster. vmware. welcome change. >> tech: every customer has their own safelite story. this couple was on a camping trip... ...when their windshield got a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech: that's service you can trust. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ liberty mutual customizes car insurance so you only pay for what you need. how much money can liberty mutual save you? one! two! three! four! five! 72,807! 72,808... dollars. yep... everything hurts. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ in business, it's never just another day. it's the big sale, or the big presentation. the day where everything goes right. or the one where nothing does.

with comcast business you get the network that can deliver gig speeds to the most businesses and advanced cybersecurity to protect every device on it— all backed by a dedicated team, 24/7. every day in business is a big day. we'll keep you ready for what's next. comcast business powering possibilities.

this monday marks the beginning of hispanic heritage month celebrated between september 15th and october 15th. it's a time to recognize and celebrate the contributions of americans from latin america and the caribbean. latina culture has influenced everything from the food to the music we listen to to the science that we use and latin x have played pivotal roles throughout american history. in the early 20th century they were influential in spreading the word about women's suffrage movement. in the 1960s, activist cesar chavez galvanized a generation in the fight for labor and civil rights. in the backdrop of these achievements there's a harsher reality for some latinos in america. the pandemic hit the latino community particularly hard. those who identify as latino make up about 20% of the population. but comprise 27% of the country's total covid cases. this last week the associated press published a report about the undocumented latino

immigrant workers who helped clean up lower manhattan in the aftermath of 9/11. exposed to dust, and asbestos for weeks without protective gear, they developed health issues. and 20 years later are still fighting for the legal status in this country. hispanic heritage month is a great time to acknowledge how latinos have become integrated into american society but important to also reflect how much the community has given to a country that hasn't always given enough back. there is hope this week that after 25 years of waiting on an immigration bill is headed for mark up with a pathway to citizenship. i have to say, it's not full, but it is a step in the right direction. t on ancestry. it was like touching the past. my great aunt signed up to serve in the union army as a field nurse. my great grandmother started a legacy of education in my family. didn't know she ran for state office. ended up opening her own restaurant in san francisco.

paralee wharton elder, lupe gonzalez, mary sawyers, margaret ross. there's a lot of life that she lived. who are the strong women in your family? icy hot. ice works fast. heat makes it last. feel the power of contrast therapy, so you can rise from pain. feel the power of contrast therapy, we did it again. verizon has been named america's most reliable network by rootmetrics. and our customers rated us #1 for network quality in america according to j.d. power. number one in reliability, 16 times in a row. most awarded for network quality, 27 times in a row. proving once again that nobody builds networks like verizon. that's why we're building 5g right, that's why there's only one best network.

centrum multigummies aren't just great tasting... they're power-packed vitamins... that help unleash your energy. loaded with b vitamins... ...and other key essential nutrients... ...it's a tasty way to conquer your day. try centrum multi gummies. now with a new look. we gave new zzzquil pure zzzs restorative herbal sleep to people who were tired of being tired.

i've never slept like this before. i've never woken up like this before. crafted with clinically studied plant-based ingredients that work naturally with your body. for restorative sleep like never before.

republican governors are continuing to push back this weekend after president joe biden issued sweeping vaccine mandates for federal workers,

large businesses and health care providers. south carolina governor henry mcmaster said he'd fight biden and democrats to, quote, to the gates of hell. greg abbott of texas issued in a counterexecutive order in which he ironically says he's protecting texans' quote, this is not ironic, right to choose whether they get the vaccine. over in alabama, kay ivey publicly called biden's measures outrageous and overreaching. but that's ironic considering alabama in particular is in the top ten for both covid cases and covid deaths per 100,000 people in the u.s. those statistics make sense given that only about 47% of alabamians 12 years and older are fully vaccinated among sadly the lowest numbers in the country. however, my next guest is trying to change all of that. she's the subject of a documentary from the new yorker called the panola project that chronicles her mission to get her small community in alabama

vaccinated. one by one. >> you doing all right? >> yes, ma'am. >> you had your shot? >> i hadn't really made my mind up. >> you think it's going to do something to you? >> the virus yet? >> got it. >> i had. >> that wasn't enough for you to make your mind up? i'm going to get you in a minute. >> you saw her right there. joining me is dorothy oliver. she went door to door and managed to get 94% of the 400 residents in panola, alabama, vaccinated. thank you so much for joining me. i have to share with you, listening to you, i was thinking of some of my elders in my family getting our ears pulled if we're not doing the right thing. talk to me how, dorothy, you've been able to demonstrate so much love to your community that you are knocking door to door. >> yes, well, we started way back when it first started back with the elder people.

and i decided that we need to start early so we can kind of educate the older people so they can be aware how serious this disease is. and i started just calling on the phone, the first -- that's how we first started, calling on the phone, talking to different ones and letting them know they're about to start the vaccination and everything. it's important to get it because this disease is just taking peoples out every day. so that's where we started it and then we went from there and started going around to their house and just talked to people face-to-face. didn't have any problem. everybody, you know, just worked with me real well. but i've been working this community for over -- close to 40 years. been working in different projects ever since i've been there. been here in this community. so it was fairly easy to work with them. >> dorothy, i think what you are demonstrating is the commitment

to your neighbors and importance of having these conversations. can you tell me, though, has anyone dared say no to you? >> yes. >> really? well, how long did they hold out? >> truthfully, they didn't say no. they really didn't say no. they just said -- they just had a lot of different reasons. they said i'm scared. i'm just going to wait awhile. they hadn't done enough study on the vaccinations. just all kinds of reason. and they never did just say no but they said, just give me time. i need to think about it. well, i had one that said i'm not going to take it because it's just politics. i think i had just one or two people who may have said that, but other than that, they didn't just say, no, i am not going to get it, they tried to use reasons not to get it. but i kept talking to them. >> i have to emphasize what you are doing is what we've been

able to see in research that talking lovingly to individuals who are hesitant, talking about their fear and letting them express that is what actually gets them to come around. what is your advice to someone right now that maybe may be facing the exact same difficulty of getting a loved one in their household vaccinated? >> the best thing to do is you have to go to people the right way, first of all. you can't go demanding and then talking just demanding, basically demanding. go to them. just talk to them and let them know how serious this disease is, and just continue to talk to them. and don't try to -- best thing i found out, don't demand. you got to take it. you need to take it. go ahead and take it. the best thing to know is how serious that you really need to get vaccinated. >> thank you, dorothy oliver.

if you ever consider running for mayor? >> no. >> i had to ask. thank you so much. >> i don't think so. >> thank you, dorothy oliver, for being so loving to your community and showing us by example. you are a subject of the new yorker documentary, the panola project. you can catch more there. >> thank you. there's another crisis building across america that is about to collide with the covid crisis in a major way. more than 11 million americans report they are currently behind on rent. while 3.5 million people who depend on rent say they are very likely to face eviction because of the pandemic, according to the latest census bureau statistics. on august 26th, the u.s. national moratorium on evictions ended following a 6-3 vote by the supreme court leaving many without a lifeline as covid

cases surge due to the delta variant. joining us now is dr. georges benjamin from the american public health association. i want to ask you, the reason this moratorium was put in place in the first place was to prevent untimely deaths because of the spread of covid. we are now experiencing the fourth wave of the delta variant that's impacting so main communities. how is this -- ending this moratorium going to create more mayhem when it is to controlling the virus? >> well, it's going to be a significant problem, obviously. people who, you know, get out -- put out of their homes are certainly going to be around more people whether it's relatives, probably in crowded conditions or out in shelters. or out on the street amongst other people and if that's the case, particularly if they're unvaccinated. they're much more likely to get sick from covid and die. and you know, even before covid, simply being homeless by itself

increased your risk of getting severe disease or dying. >> so i have a question for you. you have these families that are being uprooted. many of them who have children who are under age or can't get vaccinated. what's your advice to them to better protect themselves against the delta covid virus? >> look, my advice for anyone to protect your kids the best way is anyone 12 and older, get vaccinated. if you aren't vaccinated, absolutely, first thing you need to do is get vaccinated. it's free. it's available. you should be able to get that done. i think the other thing, of course, is work hard not to get put out. you know, talk to your landlord and see if you can get on a payment plan. states right now, some of them still can put in place moratoriums or have moratoriums. look up the federal consumer financial protection bureau and see if there is, you know, there are counselors that can help you

and there's actually money to help you pay your rent. now in many places you have to work with your landlord and fill out the paperwork, but states and local governments can try to work very hard to support these folks, reduce the bureaucracy, help walk them through that process. it is complicated. it is a bureaucracy. but, look, the money is still out there. it hasn't all been spent by any means. so the most important thing, of course, is trying to not leave your home. and i would think that landlords would not want to lose their tenants in general because every day you don't have a tenant in your building, that's rent you're losing and there is again money to cover these costs. >> that's really important. one of the reasons the moratorium was stopped, it seems, is that a lot of the states didn't know how to dole out the money fast enough. so they had it sitting there. so what you are saying is absolutely true. there's still funding out there and so for folks to go ahead and try but i have to say that it is

so difficult to think that as a mother two of children who just started school this week, i can't imagine a parent now trying to scramble to find a new place for their family to live in the midst of getting back to school. thank you, doctor, for joining us today. >> thank you, maria. 20 years and one day later, we are telling the story of one community in new york city that was hard hit by september 11th attacks. you've probably never heard about it. stay with us. that's next. it's velveeta versus the other guys. clearly, nothing melts like velveeta. ♪♪♪ frequent heartburn? not anymore. the prilosec otc two-week challenge clearly, nothing melts like velveeta. is helping people love what they love again. just one pill a day. 24 hours. zero heartburn. because life starts when heartburn stops. take the challenge at prilosecotc dot com.

♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ wow, that's a low price. wow, that's a low price. huh. that is a low price. what's a low price? that's a low price. i'm going to get it. ahh, that's a low price. can you let me shop? hmm, that's a low price. i'm gonna get it . at amazon, anytime is a good time to save.

hi, i'm pat and i'm 75 years old. we live in the mountains so i like to walk. i'm gonna get it . i'm really busy in my life; i'm always doing something. i'm not a person that's going to sit too long. in the morning, i wake up and the first thing i do is go to my art studio. a couple came up and handed me a brochure on prevagen. i've been taking prevagen for about four years. i feel a little bit brighter and my mind just feels sharper. i would recommend it to anyone. it absolutely works. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. as the nation marks 20 years since the september 11th attack, we'd like to bring you the story of a specific community in new york city that's rarely told. chinatown in lower manhattan is one of the closest residential neighborhoods to the world trade center. its people and more specifically its children watched up close as

the twin towers came down. experts say chinatown has largely been ignored in part because of cultural and language barriers. here's nbc news investigative reporter vickie nguyen. >> we saw this huge ball of fire hitting one of the trade towers. >> reporter: may chen was just a few blocks away in china town the confucius plaza when the planes hit the towers. >> can you recall those memories pretty clearly, even today, 20 years later? >> on a bright, sunny day like this, which was exactly the weather that we had that day, yes. there's a new building, but you can kind of feel a little bit of that dread. >> reporter: now 73 years old, may said it's stale painful to think about. not only because of what she witnessed but also because of what happened later. chinatown, which lies just ten blocks from the world trade center, was cut off, losing power and water for weeks. the tourism hot spot shut down to visitors for months.

thousands lost jobs. >> when i start thinking about it, i feel very sad and frustrated. you remember back to that time of how hard it was. >> reporter: while at least a dozen studies examined the mental health impacts of 9/11 on first responders and new york city residents, few have focused on the more than 100,000 people who live in chinatown. one study found children were especially impacted. they were four times more likely to have witnessed the attacks than children in any other part of the city. another report found that in the years following 9/11, nearly 15% of asians who witnessed the terror reported ptsd symptoms. that's more than double the national prevalence. >> did they get the help they needed? >> i think there was a sense that chinatown was ignored. >> daniel wong is the clinical director for hamilton madison house, the largest outpatient behavioral health clinic focused on asians on the east coast. >> when i started to work at

hamilton madison house ten years ooh i was still hearing stories about 9/11. people who had dreams and nightmares about what happened. people still on medications who were still getting counseling. >> wong says that lingering trauma has been compounded by covid and a rise in anti-asian hate. >> i would call it a mental health crisis. >> reporter: wong says his organization has seen serious incidents like suicide and overdoses increase five to ten times more than average. in spite of the stigma surrounding mental health in the asian community, wong believes there is hope for healing. by talking about it. it's why may is now opening up. >> just being able to talk to each other, comfort each other and just have a normal family life together and appreciate that we came through this. >> reporter: shining a light on her own quiet trauma to help make a difference for others.

>> thank you, vicki nguyen, for that important reporting. meanwhile, we're still feeling the effects from new york governor andrew kwomo's massive fall from grace. this morning on "the sunday show," jonathan capehart is speak with one man who was impacted a little more personally. what's coming up next? >> it is great to see you. >> my code name? no, no, no. >> maria teresa, this morning it's a first television interview. i'll speak with the former head of the human rights campaign alfonso david about his firing from the largest lgbtq plus advocacy aergs. he appears in the report in the investigation into sexual harassment allegations against former new york governor andrew cuomo as someone who advised cuomo on how to respond to the allegations. we'll hear what he has to say.

plus terry sewell of alabama joins me to talk about the voting rights act and the rise of domestic terrorism as we're just a week away from another january 6th-style or type rally. mtk, as usual, it's a packed show this sunday. so i hope you'll be watching. >> absolutely. you don't want to miss it. thanks to jonathan capehart. stay tuned to hear more right after "velshi." "the sunday show" starts at 10:00 a.m. eastern. up next -- justice stephen breyer condemns the high court's refusal to block the texas abortion law. but what comes next? it could be a long road in and out of the courts. stay with us. what do we want for dinner? burger... i want a sugar cookie... wait... i want a bucket of chicken... i want... ♪♪ it's the easiest because it's the cheesiest. kraft. for the win win.

age is just a number. and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health. versus 16 grams in ensure high protein. boost® high protein also has key nutrients for immune support. boost® high protein. age before beauty? why not both? visibly diminish wrinkled skin in... crepe corrector lotion... only from gold bond. what happens when we welcome change? we can transform our workforce overnight out of convenience, or necessity. we can explore uncharted waters, and not only make new discoveries, but get there faster, with better outcomes. with app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps companies navigate change-- meeting them where they are, and getting them where they want to be. faster. vmware. welcome change.

don't settle. start your day with secret. secret stops odor-causing sweat 3x more. and the provitamin b5 formula is gentle on skin. with secret, outlast anything! no sweat. secret. ♪ all strength. no sweat. ♪ your mission: stand up to moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. and take. it. on... with rinvoq. rinvoq a once-daily pill can dramatically improve symptoms... rinvoq helps tame pain, stiffness, swelling. and for some, rinvoq can even significantly reduce ra fatigue. that's rinvoq relief. with ra, your overactive immune system attacks your joints. rinvoq regulates it to help stop the attack. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious infections and blood clots, sometimes fatal, have occurred as have certain cancers, including lymphoma, and tears in the stomach or intestines, and changes in lab results. your doctor should monitor your bloodwork.

tell your doctor about any infections... and if you are or may become pregnant while taking rinvoq. take on ra. talk to your rheumatologist about rinvoq relief. rinvoq. make it your mission. if you can't afford your medicine, abbvie may be able to help. now, we all know progressive offers 24/7 protection, but we also bundle outdoor vehicles with home and auto to help people save more! [ laughs ] ♪♪ [ humming ] [ door creaks ] oh. [ soft music playing ] what are you all doing in my daydream? it's better than that presentation. a lot better. you know, whether it's a fraction or a decimal, it's still fun, you know? if you have this... consider adding this. an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. medicare supplement plans help by paying some of what medicare doesn't... and let you see any doctor. any specialist.

anywhere in the u.s. who accepts medicare patients. so if you have this... consider adding this. call unitedhealthcare today for your free decision guide. ♪ pro-abortion rights

activists, lawmakers and american citizens who believe in women's rights are not giving up their fight against the texas anti-abortion law. the supreme court let texas ban most abortions after just six weeks. since then supreme court justice stephen breyer has publicly criticized the high court's choice not to block the most restrictive anti-abortion law in the country saying, and i quote, very, very, very wrong. breyer, along with the court's other two liberals and chief justice john roberts dissented from the decision to allow it to take place. even the u.s. department of justice is getting involved. soon the state of texas over the abortion ban claiming it acted

in open defiance of the constitution. joining me now is robin marty, an active and literally wrote the new handbook for a post roe america. and joyce vance, msnbc contributor and co-host of the sister of law podcast. joyce, i want to start with you. one of the things i found most striking is that this bill in a box so to speak is not just happening in texas, but it is something that's happening across the country. can you shed a little more light on this? >> the strategy to defeat women's abortion rights by conservatives has been to try different laws in different states hoping that somewhere along the way they get lucky and have the right constitutional challenge to take to the supreme court giving this newly conservative court the opportunity to overturn roe vs. wade outright or at least gut it

like the court has done with the voting rights act, still technically in place but making it difficult to protect rights. so texas is a little bit of an overcorrection here where they've gone all the way forward with creating private enforcement and they did that because even though there's a mississippi challenge that the supreme court will hear next year, abortion rights still exist in mississippi, that the texas bill was designed so that it would go into effect. the supreme court would not and did not stop it from going into effect. essentially killing rights to abortion in texas. >> robin, joyce just clearly stated what is at stake. how is this going to translate to the very people that you talk about. the people that are already protesting in front of clinics. how does this empower them, embolden them to take the next step, and what should those next

steps be? >> one of the things that happens is when you have places where abortion is no longer accessible, you find that first it makes people who are protesting in front of clinics far more bold. they show up, for instance, at my own clinic in alabama. we had people who spent the week yelling god bless texas at us. so we know that things escalate. we know that people will start to push the boundaries when it comes to crossing over lines that they're supposed to be at when there are buffer zones. they will become more aggressive to -- with the patients. it's one of the reasons why merrick garland stated very clearly when this first started that the justice department will do everything they can in order to make sure that the face act which protects patients and people who are working at clinics are being blocked, harassed or otherwise threatened. >> joyce, now that the department of justice is involved, how likelihood will their lawsuit be effective?

>> it's a very interesting lawsuit and it's important to understand in this sort of complicated legal terrain that there are at least two ways that bills like this texas abortion bill can be challenged. they can be challenged as written saying that they are facially unconstitutionally or challenged after they go into effect and say the effect of the bill as it has gone into process is denying people their rights. we are still in that early stage where we're talking about challenges to the bills as written. doj's challenge is an exceptionally smart, well-tailored challenge. the argument that they make is that the federal government has preempted this space. that you can't have 50 states engaging in different kinds of laws which is the prospect here that, in fact, roe v. wade and the 14th amendment writes that it guarantees are the law of the land and states can't interfere with that. so this law should or this lawsuit should have a pretty

good chance in the courts right now. doj is seeking a preliminary injunction to block the bill and declaratory judgment that it's invalid. the problem is this goes to the same court and this court has definitely shown in the decision in the texas case that they're willing to apply different standards when they evaluate laws that strip women of their abortion rights than they do in other cases with these challenges before a law goes into effect. >> robin marty and joyce vance, stay with us. after more after a quick break. you're watching ali velshi on msnbc. ime for grilled cheese. ♪

did you know faded, dingy, and rough fabrics ime for grilled cheese. ♪ are often caused by layers of residue trapped inside? things like hard water metals, odors, and oils. try 9 elements laundry detergent and purifying softener. its vinegar powered clean is like detoxifying your clothes. and it's never made with more than 9 ingredients. try 9 elements. more than a clean, a cleanse. hey neal, with 3% cash back at drugstores from chase freedom unlimited, you're always earning! i got this great shampoo you should try. yeah, you look good! of course i do, neal. i'm kevin hart. earn 3% at drugstores, and so much more. chase. make more of what's yours. as someone who resembles someone else... i appreciate that liberty mutual knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. [ nautical horn blows ]

i mean just because you look like someone else doesn't mean you eat off the floor, or yell at the vacuum, or need flea medication. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ (vo) this is a place for ambition. a forge of progress. a unicorn in training. a corner to build a legacy. a vision for tomorrow. a fresh start. a blank canvas. a second act. a renewed company culture. a temple for ideas. and a place to make your mark. loopnet. the most popular place to find a space. if you're 55 and up, t- mobile has plans built just for you. whether you need a single line or lines for family members, you'll get great value on america's most reliable 5g network. like 2 lines of unlimited for just $27.50 a line.

only at t-mobile. baaam. internet that doesn't miss a beat. that's cute, but my internet streams to my ride. adorable, but does yours block malware? nope. -it crushes it. pshh, mine's so fast, no one can catch me. big whoop! mine gives me a 4k streaming box. -for free! that's because you all have the same internet. xfinity xfi. so powerful, it keeps one-upping itself. can your internet do that?

back with me to continue our discussion on abortion rights is activist robin marty who wrote the new handbook for post roe america and joyce vance, former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor. thank you so much for joining us again, ladies. marty, i want to ask you this question. you know, there is a tweet from greg abbott about the right to choose and it says, quote, biden's vaccine mandate is an assault on businesses. i issued an executive order protecting the right to choose and added it to the special section. texas is already working to hop this paragraph. i quote, this is abbott. quote, he is issuing an executive order protecting texans' right to choose over vaccine mandates. can you talk a little about the irony --

>> it's nice to pick and choose when the right to choose and the right to choose your body actually applies to texans. actually it is only when you have men involved, men who get to pick exactly when it matters. and honestly, it all comes down to this ever growing idea across the united states that when it comes to some sort of freedom of religion, because that's inherently what they're saying. there is a sort of freedom of religion being able to choose. if you sub-article people who are getting religious exemption can get out of the vaccine mandate, it's really showing the great divide that we have in our country over the idea of secular and nonsecular. and so this is basically what we're going to continue to watch across the country, that we have people with religious rights that are allowed to essentially opt out of all constitutional values and then people on the other side who have to do what those people say. >> joyce, i want to bring your

attention to something from americans united for life. they are the ones that are perpetuating a lot of this legislation across states. this is from their website. and it says basically, aul attorneys are highly-regarded experts on pro-life legal language and the constitution, consulting on bills and amendments across the country. in addition, our model legislation enables legislators to easily introduce bills without needing to research or write the bills themselves. i'm asking you as someone that is very much focused on women's access and agency of our body and your expertise also on access to the voting booth. can you talk about how these, while seemingly disparate movements happen to seem to have the same roots in legislation that is prebaked and sent and feathered out to the rest of the country? >> sure. you know, this is nothing new. we saw this a couple of decades ago. saw this during the obama

administration with laws about both immigration and about voting rights that were being promulgated by a midwestern politician, conservative politician named chris cobat, who was essentially writing and shipping these bills out treating states like they were laboratories, trying different versions of bills in different states. the arizona immigration bill was very restrictive. the papers, please, app. they tried something that was even stricter in alabama that would have stripped the rights of american citizen children and other children whose parents weren't documented to go to school. that's always been the trajectory of this litigation. it's no surprise that there are a number of groups and individuals vying in this space on abortion. mike schmidt at "the new york times" has a brilliant piece of reporting this morning talking about the origins of the texas bill written by a former law clerk for justice scalia. so i think the question you're asking, and it's an important question, is what impact will

this ultimately have on voters. and as we head into the midterms, one wonders if this will activate women across america who are interested, you know, perhaps in abortion rights, perhaps in having control of their own bodies, perhaps in not letting government overstep its boundaries. and if this will motivate a younger segment of the electorate towards new activism and to vote in 2022, that ultimately is the risk the republicans face here. they're a little like the dog that's out chasing the car. now that they've caught the car, what are they going to do about it? >> joyce, i know that that was a motivating factor in the 2014 midterm elections for a lot of young women because it was on so many state ballots. i want to ask you a question, marty, on what impact will this abortion ban have on texas. i was watching cnbc a few weeks ago when governor abbott basically said that there was not going to be any repercussions from corporations when it came to voting

restrictions or any other legislation that was impacting texas. however, just yesterday there was a headline from salesforce where the c.e.o. said that salesforce offers to help employees to leave texas in the wake of texas restrictive abortion law. do you see more of that, more individual companies joining their employees to make sure that the people -- women have agency over their bodies? >> i do, but unfortunately, i don't see that as a good thing. i see that as a bad thing because we are looking at a state where there are lots of people in poverty. there are lots of people without good jobs, without good access to education. we see in the south that people always talk about having boycotts, having companies move, and that just hurts the people who cannot move themselves. >> robin marty, an important point. and joyce vance, thank you both ladies for joining me this afternoon -- this morning. thank you. that is it for me. thank you for spending part of your sunday with us. the sunday show with jonathan

capehart starts right now. it's september 12th. i'm jonathan capehart. this is "the sunday show." ♪♪ ♪♪ good morning. we begin today with this week's top political stories. yesterday the nation at large commemorated the 20th anniversary of the september 11th terror attacks and paid tributes to its victims. president biden visited the memorial sites in new york, shanksville, and at the pentagon. at ground zero in lower manhattan, he was joined by presidents obama and clinton. within hours of their visit, the fbi released a newly declassified document exploring the connection between the 9/11 hijackers and the saudi government. something the families of 9/11 victims have long pushed for. it contained no conclusive evidence either way