♪ i know new york's coming back ♪ ♪ we've got the rangers, yangees, mets, knicks and nets cheered for the giants and pray for the jets ♪ ♪ we know new york's coming back ♪ ♪ we're already complaining about the cold ♪ ♪ we all hate bill de blasio ♪ ♪ and i know new york's coming back ♪ ♪ we got the nypd and the fdny when i tried out they said that you seem more like a post office guy ♪ ♪ so i know that new york's coming back ♪

♪ all the tourists have returned doing what they do ♪ ♪ walking slowly down the sidewalk right in front of you ♪ ♪ even though some of the seats are wet the subway is still packed ♪ ♪ and i know new york city's coming back ♪ ♪♪ good morning and welcome to "morning joe. "it is tuesday, september 14th. and i think jimmy fallon has really captured new york city. >> oh, yeah. no doubt, willie. so first of all, i like bill de blasio. come on p. i love bill de blasio. sorry. >> and the jets, the punch line is always, willie, and, of course, a line lifted there from marty scorsese.

it's a great special on netflix. pretend it's a city. just walk around and pretend it's a city like people actually go to work here. >> love that! >> it is. listen, there is moisture on the seats in the subway. i can report. there's strange smells emanating from those platforms. it's really happening. it's really coming back. late summer humidity brings up some of those scents and reminds you of the greatness of new york city. >> can't wait. we're coming next week again. it's wonderful to be in new york. we've got a lot happening this morning with a big red circle around today's date on the calendar in california. the state is deciding whether governor gavin newsom should be removed from office with newsom seemingly surging. republicans who wanted the recall in the first place are now claiming -- you guessed it -- voter fraud. >> what idiots. >> let's just say undemocratic

idiots. >> speaking of false claims about it, former supporters of president trump have plans to be back in washington for a rally defending the insurrectionists. how the capitol police are preparing for that. and in just a few minutes, dr. anthony fauci joins the conversation. we're going to talk about vaccine mandates, what booster shots might mean for the fight against covid. we're getting ours today. and how the new school year is going with many kids now back in the classroom for the first time in 18 months. a lot to talk to him about. i want to ask him about the potential of a monster variant and the breakthrough cases we're seeing. some of them are really bad. we have white house reporter for the associated press, jonathan lemire, katty kay is with us and co-founder of punch bowl news, jake sherman. today is the day. california voters will decide to keep gavin newsom or not as

their governor. president joe biden was in california last night campaigning alongside newsom. biden encouraged residents to vote no in the gubernatorial recall. and battling a bit of a cough, connected the newsom's top opponent in the recall with donald trump. >> you either keep gavin newsom as your governor or -- you'll get donald trump. it's not a joke. republican governor blocking progress on covid-19 who is also anti-woman, anti-worker, climate denier who doesn't believe in choice. the choice should be absolutely clear. gavin newsom. you have a governor who has the courage to lead and gavin, you

have a governor who shares the state's values. in gavin you have a governor who makes sure donald trump's dark, destructive, divisive politics never finds a place in california. >> we may have defeated donald trump, but we have not defeated trumpism. trumpism is still on the ballot in california, and that's why it's so important not just for all of us here, 40 million americans strong in the nation's largest and most populous state, but also to send a statement all across the united states of america that trumpism has no place here and trumpism will be defeated all across the united states of america because we're better than that. >> governor new som there. the leading republican front-runner larry elder appealed to his followers to use an online form to report fraud.

claimed to have detected fraud in the results of the california recall election. results in gavin newsom being reinstated. when the link was live on his site, the election hasn't happened yet. elder was still out campaigning. hours after nbc news contacted the elder campaign about the site, a disclaimer about his campaign having funded the site was added. in an interview with nbc yesterday, elder refused to say whether he would accept the results of the recall election. >> whether or not you win or lose, will you accept the results of the election tomorrow? >> i think we all ought to be looking at election integrity, whether you are a democrat, republican or independent. let's make sure the election is a fair election. let's all work together to make sure that the results are valid and legitimate and everybody who vote shd have voted. let's all do that together. s. that a commitment to accept the results of the election tomorrow. >> let's all work together to make sure that the election is a

fair election. >> this is what many people feared after donald trump stoked the flames about the 2020 election that republicans would use that as a model for any election that looked like they were going to lose. the polling has larry elder and all the other challenges far behind. gavin newsom has opened up some space. now before the votes have been cast, many of them, before the ballots have been counted, claims of voter fraud to explain away a potential election loss. >> what whiners. what losers. i mean, these poor little snowflakes are going around every time it looks like they're going to lose an election, they say, oh, the election got stolen. they cheated. seriously? this is elemental. you tell your kids when they are playing a game to play as hard as they can play it and then when the game is over, shake the other team's hand and be a good loser. and here we have one after

another after another republican just whining. it is -- i guess it is their strategy. they understand, especially in places like california, that their policies are just extraordinarily unpopular. they are on the wrong side of so many issues. they are on the wrong side of vaccine mandates. they are on the wrong side of overturning a constitutionally protected right in the state of texas that 70% of americans say they don't want overturned. they are on the wrong side of issue after issue. they are on the wrong side of january 6th. theyor the wrong side of investigating the insurrection. they are on the wrong side of just about everything. so what do they do, katty kay? they, of course, they act like the illiberal leader of hungary. a person a lot of conservatives are praising now. they love the fact that orbat

shut down any criticism from the press. love that he's basically taken control of the courts. love that it's no longer a democrat. it's no longer a western-style democracy there. that's what republicans want in california. that's what republicans want across the united states. elections are only valid if they win. >> yeah, certainly what tucker carlson wanted when he went to hungary earlier this year. it's not what you'd think of as an american-style democracy, what's happening in hungary or in poland for that matter either, but claiming that the election was rigged before the election has even happened has taken things to a new low in california, but it is exactly donald trump's playbook. he spent the whole year before the election saying this is going to get rigged. the same way he told his supporters from the beginning, the press is the enemy of the people.

you're undermining the freedom of the press. but it gives your supporters up for when you lose to be able to turn around and say, well, either the media was against us, that's what people used to say when they lost. now they have taken it one step further. candidates in the trump mode. the election was actually stolen from us. you'll not see the same outcry across california because he's so far behind in the polls. interesting republican party in california is unlikely, i think, to behave the same way the trump supporters did on january 6th here in washington, d.c., but it's certainly a model if taken from donald trump's playbook. and i guess trump-like candidates are going to keep using that when they go into elections and start spreading it before the election happens so they can gear themselves up for the result afterwards. >> more news happening right now. moments ago, democrats in the senate unveiled an updated voting rights bill. the freedom to vote act is backed by a group of eight

senators, including senator joe manchin of west virginia. the bill is an updated version of a framework released by senator manchin earlier this year. the legislation is split into three sections. voter access and election administration. election integrity and civic participation and empowerment. democrats want to act fast. majority leader chuck schumer said he'll call a vote by next week. >> republican-led war on democracy has only worsened in the last few weeks. most notably, the governor of texas recently signed into law vile new voter suppression bill that ranks as one of the most draconian and undemocratic. partisans are sharpening their knives for a coming spate of vision gerrymandering. this is unacceptable. so the senate must act. i intend to hold a vote in the

senate as early as next week on voting rights legislation. time, time is of the essence. >> of course, if they're going to cure gerrymandering or at least do their best to fix it if they're going to implement a lot of these other changes, democrats still need ten republicans to join them in moving the bill forward. and the fact that, you know, the reauthorization of the civil rights voting act in 2006 almost passed unanimously but you can't even find one republican to vote for these voting rights bills should tell us that we're still, whether it's manchin's bill or somebody else's bill, we're still a long way from this passing unless there's some major filibuster reform. >> yeah, joe, at the risk of being yelled at on twitter all day, this is a press release. i mean, yes, it's important that democrats got 50 of their own lawmakers around this compromise, which was done by

amy klobuchar and joe manchin. they are still, as you know, 10 republicans short of getting this across the finish line in a republican conference where not one republican that i've spoken to or that i've found believes that anything like this is necessary. so they're not even singing from the same song sheet. they're not working from the same set of facts, and unless there is some action to rework the filibuster which joe manchin and kirsten sinema have said they're not interested in until their eyes bled, this is just going to be a vote that shows all democrats are on the same page but this is no closer to law in any shape or form. >> jonathan lemire, is there any chance that after joe manchin is allowed to put out his bill and to do all the things that he thinks needs to be done and if the republicans run over him again, just like the republicans

ran over him on the january 6th commission, that he will work with the white house and others to put together a filibuster reform package at least for civil rights bills that will do the same thing for civil rights bills that mitch mcconnell did for supreme court nominees? >> there is a chance, joe. talks have intensified behind the scenes at the white house. senior aides say that though no final decision has been made, there's growing momentum within the chorus of the west wing and in the oval office to support some sort of filibuster change and work with those senators who have been resistant to that. manchin chief among them but not alone. he often, as we know, is sort of the face of a group of more, quote, moderate democratic senators who have been resistant to perhaps, say, the size of the reconciliation package or any change to the filibuster. but, y as jake says, this is --

this plan here is a press release. it doesn't really stand any chance of actual passage. we have no -- we've heard from the president, both publicly and he's said privately to his closest advisers that he is not in support of a full abolition, a full removal of the filibuster, but is amenable to some sort of change, an amendment to it. a tweak to it. perhaps making it a talking filibuster which makes it more difficult to use or use something sort of exception. changing it for a certain topic. and as he has said, the voting rights, the greatest threat to the democracy since the civil war, and there have been discussions now, going to let this play out over a couple more weeks but then, yes, we may see more talks about trying to make that exception to get something out there to protect voting rights. >> they are also working on paying for these big, big bills they are talking about. trillions of dollars. democrats in the house presented a plan yesterday to pay for their social policy and climate change package by raising taxes

by more than $2 trillion, largely on wealthy people and profitable corporations. but this morning, "the new york times" reports that plan, quote, stopped well short of changes needed to didn't the vast fortunes of tycoons like jeff bezos and elon musk or to thoroughly close the most egreejuous loopholes exploited by high-flying captains of finance. senior house democrats opted to be more mindful of moderate concerns in their party than of its progressive ambitions. the focus on traditional ways of raising revenue, raising tax rates on income rather than targeting wealth itself. the times continues, the bill dispenses with measures floated by the white house and senate democrats to tax wealth or close off avenues that the superrich have exploited to pass on a lifetime of gains to their heirs tax-free. democrats caution the proposal is likely to change. this is just out of one committee as it makes its way through congress.

so the top marginal tax rate is proposed to be raised to 39.6% from 37%. but that, as you know, doesn't get at the way these superwealthy and corporations make their money and avoid taxes. >> and we see it every year. i don't understand what's going on when you have the people writing the tax bill for the democrats. they are concerned about moderates' concerns. what? do they want jeff bezos and amazon to keep paying zero dollars? is that a moderate concern or is that actually a lobbyist's concern? because over the past few years, there are corporations that have paid zero taxes in a year and just over the past couple of years, that includes amazon, chevron, avis, delta, eli lilly, gm, goodyear, halliburton, honeywell, ibm, netflix, ox

occidental petroleum, fedex, nike, on and on and on. are moderates really concerned that those corporations may actually have to pay millions of dollars in taxes? right now they're paying zero. and billionaires are continuing to figure out how to pay little or nothing. hedge fund titans are paying taxes at lower rates than their clerical employees, the people who chauffeur their bentleys. you think that's demagoguery? you think that's -- no, it's not. that's the fact. billionaires' capital, it doesn't get taxed. workers' wages do. and so now democrats in congress are saying, we need to raise the taxes on people who are working but leave billionaires alone as they continue to amass capital and continue to -- listen to me here. listen to me here.

because everybody hates income redistribution. that makes you a socialist, doesn't it? if you are for a scheme that redistributes wealth. well, let me tell you something. and the world we've lived in over the past 40 years there's been the largest income redistribution scam in american history. and it's been the middle class that's been looted while trillions keep flowing into the bank accounts of billionaires. did you hear what i just said? did you hear what i just said? this whole income redistribution thing we keep -- oh, you can't raise taxes on people. because that will be income redistribution. you're a socialist. well, guess what. the very people who are saying that, the very people who are funding think tanks that will say that, the very people that are paying lobbyists to get the message out to say that, the very people who are spending millions and millions of dollars

on lawyers and lobbyists on k street who are saying that. they are the people who have scammed you. they are the people whose monopolies continue to be untouched. they continue to be untouched all because they can buy the best lobbyists, they can buy the best lawyers, they can buy the best influencers on capitol hill across washington, d.c., and across wall street. please, please, democrats, do better than that. tax capital. take a dent on these super wealthy billionaires who keep accumulating, keep amassing fortunes. because you're just -- i mean, when you're taxing income a little bit more, 2% here, 3% here, you are missing the target. if you want to make this country

a fairer place if you want to get us back to where we were before where there wasn't just such massive divergence between the super wealthy and the rest of uyou have to rewrite your tax plan because that one is just lousy. we've seen the super wealthy akimulate fortunes through capital. capital accumulation that's not taxed or taxed at extraordinarily low rates. while people who work for a living, people who have an income keep getting taxed at higher rates every year. >> yeah, it's kind of stunning that this is not a bigger conversation here in washington, and amongst the democratic party that taxing dividends and taxing capital, taxing wealth rather than income is actually the way you're going to make some kind of dent on what's been rapidly growing inequality in this country. and you have had people like warren buffett over the years who have said this has to stop.

warren buffett one of the super wealthy people in this country has said you've got to go after wealth. you have to go after dividends because it's just not fair that he is paying, as he says, less than his secretary is paying in terms of taxes. and when you keep fiddling around with the marginal rate on incomes going from 37% to 39%, you're just not going to get there. you will squeeze those people who are wealthier, who are taking back 400, 500, $600,000 a year. those families. but you'll not touch the billionaires who don't have income. their money comes from their wealth and dividends on their wealth, not on their income. >> what's the political calculus of democrats to say, we don't want to upset the moderates. we don't want to make amazon pay taxes. we don't want to make ibm pay taxes. we don't want to make these super corporations pay taxes. we'll just raise taxes on small business owners who make $400,000, $500,000. >> well, so they would say they are forcing those businesses to

pay taxes. they've raised at least marginally the corporate rate from 21 to i think 25 or 26. but, listen, i think it's more of a vote counting problem, joe, than anything else in a -- and it's frankly my estimation is the house of representatives where they only enjoy a four-seat majority, and any step out of line, so to speak, any step away from the lower common denominaor can provide vote problems. they have vote problems everywhere. they have enough problems right now on things from prescription drugs to s.a.l.t. deductions, state and local tax deductions. so many trip wires for nancy pelosi and chuck schumer that anything out of the mainstream, so to speak. not out of the mainstream but currently envisioned tax plan, is just not going to fly, i think. and i want to say just one more thing here. i've noticed in the last couple of months, and this bolsters your argument.

republicans are actually no longer even talking about raising taxes as being the central focus point of this plan because they realize, i've talked to a lot of republicans about it, that it no longer plays to talk about raising taxes. that the spending is actually the more potent political argument for republicans. so that bolsters your contention that this is actually no longer an unpopular proposition to be raising taxes on super wealthy and corporations. so that is new because for the last 20 years since you were in congress, i would say that the tax argument was a much more potent argument for republicans. >> if i were campaigning in any congressional district in any district across america, i would love my opponent, republican or democratic, to stand up and say, i don't think we should make amazon pay taxes. hey, i really don't think we should make billionaires stop being able to build up their loopholes to continue this

redistribution of income from middle class americans to the super wealthy. jake, i saw you wanted to get in earlier as we were moving on to the next story when we were talking about voting rights, joe manchin and talking about exceptions to the filibuster. and the question i had asked was, why wouldn't we get to a point at the end where joe manchin and joe biden and democrats decided that, yes, they could make an exception for civil rights the same way mitch mcconnell made an exception for supreme court justices. >> yeah, so i just think that it's a lot more -- i'm not saying that won't happen or that jon's reporting was wrong. i think there is an increasing in the white house, increasing appetite to do something on the filibuster. i don't doubt that. i just think that it will be -- from a technical point of view, it's very difficult to end the filibuster on one thing. on the legislative calendar and not for other things.

once there's a -- there's not a way in the senate rules from the people that i've spoken to who are pro filibuster reform even, to end the filibuster for civil rights legislation, not for other legislation. you said republicans changed the filibuster for nominees, they did. but that's on a different calendar. that's the executive calendar, not the legislative calendar. tough to explain. probably doesn't matter for many people who care about voting rights. it's just a technical argument that i think once the filibuster is blown up and manchin understands this, and i think will come around to this argument. once it's blown up for one topic, it will be blown up for every topic. and on the talking filibuster, manchin has said he's not for changing the 60-vote threshold. he's fine with making people talk but at the end of that, he still wants 60 votes. that's a distinction without a difference. if you make people talk but still need 60 votes to cut off someone from talking, it's not a

huge difference from what we currently have in the senate. so i just think the -- there's a long path, if there's a path at all, to changing the filibuster. >> all right, guys. we'll obviously come back to this. now to weather. overnight hurricane nicholas made landfall along the texas coastline. the storm was downgraded to a tropical storm about an hour ago. but there is still major concern over flooding. let's go to meteorologist bill karins for the latest on this. >> mika, pretty incredible that we've had 19 storms make landfall in the last 17 months. and that includes ten hurricanes. so just a storm after storm after storm once we get into this hurricane season. this one did intensify after landfall. 95-mile-per-hour winds recorded on the texas coast. this will actually have a storm surge probably around four to five feet. not enough to do a ton of damage but still over 300,000 people without power right now. so let me show you the latest from the hurricane center.

the storm is almost over the top of houston right now. we were very afraid of the heavy rainfall in the houston area. especially this morning. but the storm shifted a little bit more to the east. for louisiana, that means all of the heavy rain is now heading towards you as we go throughout the next two to three days. the last thing louisiana needs because they've been hit the hardest over the last two hurricane seasons. flash flood warnings south of houston around galveston. the flash flood watch includes almost all of the southern half of louisiana into southern mississippi and alabama. about 10 million people included. look at the rainfall that's heading for new orleans. we're expecting up to 10 inches of rain possible from lake charles to new iberia to new orleans and heavy rains in southern mississippi and even alabama. this will be pretty incredible over the next couple of days as we watch the storm slowly drift towards the new orleans area. it does not look like we have any problems whatsoever with the winds in these areas. the winds have been light as we've been going throughout the

last, i'd say, the last 12 hours or so. they've been very light in areas especially louisiana. look at lake charles only 20-mile-per-hour gusts. the highest gusts are near the houston area around 40 to 50 miles per hour. most of the power outages from houston southwards down to the coastal areas. i do not expect a lot of additional power outages as we go throughout the remainder of the storm. you can see on the latest close in radar, the houston area, the heaviest rain is over the next hour or two. but the poor people from lake charles to beaumont, it's going to pour all morning long. be very careful driving anywhere on interstate 10 through louisiana during the day today. just ridiculous, mika. the tenth hurricane landfall in the last 17 months in the united states. >> crazy. all right, bill karins, thank you so much for keeping us posted on all of this. still ahead on "morning joe," a look at how security is being ramped up around capitol hill ahead of a far right rally this weekend protecting and

rallying for the people who attacked the capitol. plus, dr. anthony fauci joins our conversation amid surging covid cases among children. before we go to break, we're excited for joe's new podcast which debuted today "way more joe," a side of him you don't see. and you'll not believe who his first guest is going to be. it's a big get. that's all i'll say. >> huge. >> biggest in the 47 years that we've been doing this podcast every day. this is, i think, the biggest guest. >> but absolutely check it out. listen to the "joe scarborough podcast" on spotify, apple music or wherever you get your podcasts. we'll be right back.

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cases of pediatric covid-19 are surging across the country. more than 243,000 child cases were reported last week. making 500,000 over the past two weeks. that's the backdrop as millions of children head back to school. many of them walking inside a physical classroom for the first time in at least 18 months. nbc news correspond stephanie gosk has more. >> reporter: with excitement and some fanfare, new york city kicked off a new school year. >> despite the masks, it feels like a normal first day of school. we even have the marching band here. kids are a little nervous, excite bud unlike last year, families do not have the option for remote learning. everyone is back in class. on top of a mask mandate, there will be air purifiers in every classroom and social distancing

of at least three feet when possible. teachers and staff have to be vaccinated. measures that have put some parents, especially those with unvaccinated little ones, at ease. >> i trust the school completely. they are ready for this. they need this. all the kids do. rehema ellis found one third grader who may need some convincing. >> just a little nervous. >> are you nervous about what you're going to learn? are you nervous about having to wear a mask? >> reporter: in new york, the opening of schools was timed to the enforcement of tougher vaccine rules. >> i just need to see your proof of vaccination and a photo i.d. >> everyone who wants to eat inside go to the theater or gym will have to show proof of vaccination. >> we're trying to be as prepared as possible and anticipating slowdowns at the front door but guests seem to be getting used to it. >> reporter: at this manhattan restaurant, tables are still getting filled. >> people are continuing to be increasingly comfortable with the extra safety. >> reporter: covid cases have started to dip but there are hot

spots where hospitals are struggling like in idaho where in some cases, patients are waiting in conference rooms. >> we're just in a terrible time of the pandemic right now. and i would hate to see it get any worse. >> reporter: in pennsylvania, multiple schools have gone to remote learning. one district closing two of its schools dealing with a previously unimaginable number of students with covid. around the country, the number of pediatric infections is high with some parents eager to vaccinate their young children. vaccine approval for 5 to 11-year-olds could come as early as this fall, according to the cdc director who shared this advice on the "today" show. >> surround our younger kids by people who are vaccinated. masking in the schools, ventilation, screening, testing. those strategies work. >> some new polling about this showing a majority of americans support president biden's sweeping plan for large u.s. companies to require employees be vaccinated according to the latest morning consult/politico poll.

58% are in support of vaccine mandates for companies with at least 100 workers. but there say massive partisan divide. 82% of democrats support the vaccination requirement but only 33% of republicans do. overall, most americans also support other major pieces of the president's plan to increase covid vaccinations. 62% of americans in this poll are in favor of encouraging states to require vaccination for all school employees. 60% support a vaccination mandate for most health care workers without the ability to opt out through regular testing. and 56% support the same rule for most federal workers and contractors. meanwhile, florida's republican governor ron desantis says his state will punish county and city governments which require employes get vaccinated against covid-19. desantis threatening a $5,000 fine for each violation, joe. similar to what he's been threatening in school districts that want to mask their kids.

>> yeah, he's microtargeting. he's playing for the 30%. he's doing what donald trump did in 2015 when he kept talking about the wall. kept talking about immigration. if you looked at donald trump's immigration policies, 60% of americans opposed them. 30% supported them. but donald trump rode that all the way to winning the republican nomination and then in 2016 snuck in to the presidency. and won the presidency. and you just look at the stories we've been talking about today. i've been talking about how democrats and republicans are on different sides of so many issues. and usually it's the democrats -- 60% side. it's the republicans on the 30% side, but mika, it's getting clearer by the day that the goal is take minority positions, whether it's on vaccine mandates, whether it's on mask mandates, whether it's on

abortion in texas and stopping a constitutional right because of a procedure. go ahead and take those positions. win your primary. then just try to figure out how you change the voting rules. and if things look bad, start screaming like larry elder in california. start screaming and whining like a little snowflake, like all republicans do when they lose an election, and talk about it being rigged. that's their new formula for running their political party moving forward. not actually siding with scientists. not siding with doctors. not siding with their own family doctor, but instead, picking up bits and pieces from, oh, i don't know, facebook pages where their lies are maybe chinese conspiracy websites. but that is actually the path they're going down. and they'll pay politically in the end. >> it's not only infecting our politics but it's helping this

virus spread because if there's just one person inspired by these politicians not to get the vaccine or not to mask, here you go. joining us now, director of the national institute of allergy and infectious diseases and chief medical adviser to the president, dr. anthony fauci. dr. fauci, thank you so much for being with us. a lot to get to. we want to talk about children and the start of school. i just want to pull back a little bit about where this virus could go. i'm hearing anecdotedly about breakthrough cases that are really serious that end up with people being on ventilators. these are people who were vaccinated but still got covid. what is the potential that this spirals beyond delta to monster variant? >> well, there's always a risk of, as you get more circulation of virus in the community, that you'll get enough accumulation of new mutations to get a variant that is functionally

different than the ones we're seeing now. delta has the capability, unlike alpha, of transmitting extraordinarily readily and effic unitunitly from person to person, that's the reason we've seen that surge that we've been through over the last few months where we went from 11,000 cases a day up to 150, 160,000 cases a day. one of the reasons why we want to make sure we get as many people vaccinated as we possibly can is that viruses will not mutate if they don't have the opportunity to spread and replicate. so the more dynamics of viral activity you have in the community, the greater opportunity you give to the virus to mutate. so it's one of those things that you're vaccinating now to prevent the next mutant coming, the next variant from coming and again that's yet again another

reason, besides protecting the health of the people who are getting vaccinated, protecting the community. you don't want to see more variants coming in because then it would, in many respects, negate some of the very positive protection that you get from the vaccines. >> isn't it also about protecting our children under 12 who still can't get the vaccine? the delta can spread among children. the transmissibility, as you just said is far worse than the first phase of covid. it really, really, it spreads quickly and it's an incredibly terrible experience if it's survivable. how do we address this with children going to school, even if they are wearing masks. is that enough at the rate we're going? >> well, you just said something that is really one of the fundamental principles of vaccine protection of the community. when you have vulnerable people

who either are not yet eligible for vaccines, the way many of our children, 11 years old and younger, who are in the school system, they are vulnerable. the way you protect the vulnerable is to surround them by people who are vaccinated. be they teachers, personnel in the school, students in the school, who are old enough to get vaccinated. for example, those who are 12 years old and older. that's a fundamental public health principle of how you protect vulnerable people is you surround them with vaccinated people. >> dr. fauci, it's willie geist. good morning. i want to ask about boosters. there was that new study that came out yesterday. i'm sure you saw published from public health experts in america and around the world that said boosters at this time for otherwise healthy people are not necessary and they went so far as to say may be unethical given the fact so many places in the world still need all these doses of the vaccine.

what is your position on boosters right now. should healthy people, not people who are at risk, who do need the boosters, but should otherwise healthy people be getting the booster? >> yeah, willie, that's a great question. and with regard to that article, that's a controversial article that i actually disagree mostly with. there are a couple of aspects that get conflated in that article. certainly, if you have countries, low and middle income countries that don't have any vaccine and you make no attempt to get them vaccine and only focus on boosting individuals who are in your own country, that is not the right thing. and i disagree with that. however, you can do both. the way we're doing in this country. you can have a program to give booster, in this case, third shots for people who have gotten the two-dose moderna and pfizer vaccine. you can get them boosted if you put a considerable amount of resources and effort into getting low and middle income

people vaccinated. and that's exactly what we're doing. i don't have the time or you to go over all the things being done, but they are being done. so don't conflate those two. once you separate those two and say, okay, let's look at now the rationale. if you look at the data, the data are strongly suggestive in this country, and more than just suggestive in israel that you have a waning of immunity among people across age groups, not just the very, very elderly. you have clearly waning of immunity against infection and clear-cut indication of waning of immunity against severe disease. so what we're trying to do right now is have a plan that, by the time we get to the middle of september, the september, the week of september the 20th, we will have a plan to vaccinate people who are having that waning immunity. the part about that plan that's

important, it will be contingent upon the fda analyzing the data, not only from the united states, but from israel and other countries to determine if it's appropriate and scientifically sound to do it. so when you have people objecting to the plan to do it, they tend to leave out that nothing is going to get done until the fda analyzes the data very, very carefully the way they do and make a determination from a regulatory standpoint of, should we be giving the boosters? myself as a scientist who have seen some of the data, i believe when you look at that data carefully, there's going to be a decision to actually give the boost as opposed to not giving it. >> that's interesting. that document, that article got a lot of attention yesterday. interesting to hear you contradict it there point by point. dr. fauci, apologies for a question you've answered so many

times offer the last year but i think it needs to be driven home. i know so many otherwise rational smart people that i talk to that say i'm healthy. i'm this age. i've never been sick. i don't need to get the vaccine. what do you say to those people? what is the clear case that you make to people who just don't think, you know, they're not reading crazy conspiracy theories even. they just think, i don't want to put this in my body because i don't need to. what do you say to them? >> well, there are two aspects of that and two approaches you take. first of all, the personal approach. it is true that young, healthy people have less of a chance of getting severely involved in the sense of getting infected and have a severe outcome. there's no doubt about that. but if you look across the country and you look at the hospitals, you see there are plenty of young people who get severely ill. we've had 650,000 deaths in the united states. so although the odds are in your

favor, you are not completely exempt from getting seriously ill. that's one component. the other compont that in many respects is equally important is that it isn't all about you. if you get infected, even if you don't have any symptoms, it is likely that you will pass the virus on to someone else who might pass it on to someone else who might have a severe outcome, leading to hospitalization and even death. so you've got a look at it that you're not in a vacuum. you're part of society. and do you want to be part of the component that propagates the virus and propagates the outbreak? or do you want to be part of the solution? so, a, you should be worried about yourself because your health is important, as is the health of your family. but you are a part of society. and you do have some responsibility as a member of

society. >> dr. fauci, the back and forth you just had with willie was both interesting and informative, as usual. my question is one that i think is on the minds of a lot of americans, and it is this. is this the fight against this virus virus, our real forever war? >> i don't believe it needs to be. i mean, obviously, we will always be challenged by emerging and reemerging infections. we have very good vaccines right now. the virus will mutate and get new variants if we allow it to circulate and propagate itself. that's one of the reasons why when you do have the capability of really smashing this virus, let's do it. if we do it, and i believe we can and will do it, you don't necessarily have to look at the fact that you're going to be struggling with this virus indefinitely. we've had formidable viruses that we've eliminated. things like polio.

things like measles in this country. we can do it if we put our will and all of our resources, which we are doing, to do that. and i'm not only talking about the united states. i'm talking about getting the world vaccinated within a reasonable period of time. >> dr. fauci, we know that the virus travels when people move around the country. the democratic congressman from virginia has a bill proposing that people traveling within the united states on airplanes and trains should either be vaccinated or provide proof of a negative covid test. this is common practice now in europe. i've just been traveling all over europe. you can't get on a plane without having some sort of proof you're negative. it seems to be crazy that a year and a half into this, i can still get on a plane to boston, california, and nobody is going to check me. do you think that needs to change? >> that's under consideration, certainly. i mean, i have been asked that question and actually got some

play in the press when i made the answer. i think that if, in fact, it is seriously considered, it's on the table. we're not there yet. in fact, if you look at the six-point program that the president came out with a couple days, what we were talking about with travel was doubling the fines of people who, in fact, are traveling and don't get tested. i believe that the idea about requiring vaccination for travel is something that is on the table for discussion. it has not been decided yet. >> dr. fauci, good morning. it's jonathan lemire. let me get an update on the vaccines for children. we know, of course, that, you know, ages 12 and under have yet to receive approval to get the shot. can you walk us through the timeline as to what you're hearing when that may be available for kids 5 to 12, but also those younger than 5, which seems to be further down the road. >> yeah. it isn't a question of hearing, it's a question of what the facts are. the facts are that we have,

right now, the data being accumulated, there's two separate companies that are doing it. pfizer and moderna. pfizer is a bit ahead, maybe a few weeks ahead in the testing. end of september, beginning of october, there will be enough data in the testing of kids 11 to 5, in the sense of getting safety and data. it may take a few weeks to get that. we assume, and i believe it'll work out this way, that by the time we get to the mid-fall, october or so, that we will have the capability of giving vaccines for pfizer. moderna, as i mentioned, just a couple of weeks behind. they'll get enough data probably by the end of october. if they go for an eua, it'll likely be the beginning of november. what you're talking about is 11 to 5 somewhere in

october/november timeframe. those who are younger than that will be a little further down. because when you do a study, you do an age de-escalation study. start with 11 to 9, 9 to 6, 6 to 2, and 6 months to 2 years. >> dr. fauci, i'm sure you've answered this before. forgive me for repeating the question. do you have a percentage in mind of americans that need to be vaccinated before we reach a point to really suppress this virus and actually be on the winning side of things? is it 80%? is it 85%? is it 90% of americans? >> joe, we don't know. you know, any time you give a number, someone will poke holes in it. what i think is as close to the truth as you will get, you'll know it when you see it. we should get, we, us here in the united states, should get as

many people vaccinated as we possibly can. when we get to the point where it is that critical number that we are not sure of what it is, you're going to see the level of infections plummet very, very low, and maybe even disappear. take, for example, measles. measles is a highly transmissible virus. one of the most, if not the most, highly transmissible virus. you need a vaccination percentage of over 90% in order to get to that herd immunity with a virus essentially not being able to find a vulnerable targ target. then you have a disappearance of infection. i'm sorry i don't know what the number is, but it likely is going to be pretty high because we have a very transmissible try virus. >> dr. anthony fauci, thank you so much for coming back on the show this morning. we appreciate it. coming up, secretary of state anthony begin blinken's

defense of the withdrawal from afghanistan. what he had to say on capitol hill yesterday. plus, an urgent warning from apple. the company is advising all users to update their devices after researchers found a new security flaw that could impact iphones, ipads, macs, and apple watches. "morning joe" is coming right back. back welcome to allstate. ( phone notification ) where you can pay a little less and enjoy the ride a little more. now, get new lower auto rates. you're in good hands with allstate. click or call for a lower rate today. discover card i just got my cashback match is this for real? yup! we match all the cash back new card members earn at the end of their first year automatically woo! i got my mo-ney! it's hard to contain yourself isn't it? uh- huh! well let it go! woooo! get a dollar for dollar match at the end of your first year. only from discover.

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beautiful. sort of beautiful day in new york city. top of the hour. live look at new york city on this tuesday, september 14th. jonathan lemire and katty kay are still with us. >> john:ing the conversation, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle is here.

and pulitzer prize-winning columnist and editor of the "washington post" and political analyst, eugene robinson joins us. good to have you all back today. >> willie, we have to start with the biggest news of the day. breaking banners. in new york city, breaking banners about as big as john glenn orbits the earth. this is massive. it's a birthday. >> happy birthday, alex. >> think they'll let him out of the booth ever? >> there he is. >> no. >> that's where he has been sitting since covid began. >> let me tell you something about akor. akor has been sitting there since the first case of covid escaped a lab, was found in a bat market or whatever. he's been there! >> i was 25 when this all began. [ laughter ] >> you look terrific. >> don't look a day past 26.

>> we love you. >> happy birthday. >> alex has been in the captain's seat, you're right, every single day since this began with the mask on. i don't think people appreciate it. you look at these boxes. there are seven of us right now. there's somebody in there running air traffic control, and his name is alex corson. it is not easy to pull off, and he does a great job. >> really, we've been -- when covid first hit, nobody was going into 30 rock. hardly anybody. it was a ghost town. >> you couldn't. >> every day, alex went in. every single day, talking about the iron man, unbelievable. happy birthday. >> he is our iron man. we'll call him akor. >> thank you so much for everything you do. i don't know where to begin, willie. you know, sometimes i josh because i'm a joshing kind of guy. >> oh, boy. >> i say that the red sox and the yankees are going to be fighting for fourth place.

i never really expected that to be the truth. but these toronto bluejays, i mean, they're the '27 yankees, the 1972 a's. they're the big red machine. these guys, it's like the line in butch cassidy, "the sundance kid," who are those guys? they just keep coming. >> yeah. they came into new york last week and swept four games, burying the yankees' chances to bury the division, if they weren't buried already. they're good. we've been talking about this in new york this morning with john and mike, it's a race for the red sox and yankees to decide who goes up to canada and plays in what i'm going to call skydome. i know it's the roger center or whatever it is, but play in toronto, mike, a one-game playoff to get into the playoffs. >> the player there, vladimir, the mvp of the american league, incredible, the way he has pulled that team in the past month right up into, i think,

you know, they're going to crush everyone in the fall. the other aspect of what's going on in major league baseball, and a hat tip to larry bear and gabe kapler and the san francisco giants. >> how about those giants? >> i don't know anybody who saw that team coming. >> no. if you look at their roster, they don't seem to have the talent of the dodgers or maybe even, frankly, the padres. padres who are ten plus games back at this point. yet, they're the first team. last night, they clinched a playoff spot. assured of at least a wild card. 2 1/2 game lead for home field advantage throughout. certainly, mike, our red sox, another loss on the west coast last night, now dropped into a tie with the yankees. playing the bluebluejays. yankees have been struggling, willie, but the remedy came to the bronx yesterday. there are a few things in this uncertain time we can count on. death, taxes, and the yankees beating the twins. they did yesterday. the twins, 5-0 lead in the first. you didn't break a sweat. >> no.

i saw 5-0. oh, it's the twins. we'll win. the twins can't do it. if you look at the national league wild card race, it is insane. you have the dodgers way up. then the reds have the second spot followed by the padres, cardinals, phillies, and mets, all with legitimate spots to sneak into the second spot. >> it's exciting. the mets/yankees game on sunday night was absolutely crazy. a great wild card game. i do want to go back to the giants organization. we talk a lot about the east coast. we don't get to stay up and see what the giants and the dodgers, the padres, the angels do every day and the other teams on the west coast. man, that giants organization, just one of the best. they won the world series in '10, '12, '14. they keep coming back at you. you have to look at them and the cardinals organization, even though the cardinals aren't having a great year this year.

every year they -- i do want to talk to the two red sox fans on the set there, though, and just ask, what is wrong with our defense? what is wrong with our team? what's going on? >> well, the first thing that's going on is the fact that there are so many unvaccinated players on the red sox team. i don't understand how you can have post-game conferences, talking about, we did this for the team and hope the team wins, when you don't get vaccinated to protect your teammates. that bothers me. it's bothered me for a while. that's been part of their problem. they've had, like, nine, ten covid guys taken out of the lineup, taken off the team, and replaced by literally minor leaguers. >> it's depleted an already bad bullpen even further. you're right, the defense has been abysmal. i'm not going to play schwarber, who is playing a new position at first base. he is one of the bright spots for the red sox recent weeks.

booted a routine ground ball that ended up leading to the mariners scoring three runs and winning that game. they're just sort of a mess right now. it seems like, with a few exceptions, devers has been hitting, renfroe is good, but it is a team wide slump. they're in trouble right now. their schedule to close the year is pretty soft, but the fear is they might be a few games out and won't have enough time to make up the ground behind the surging bluejays. then perhaps even the yankees. >> last note on baseball, mika, then we're turn it over to you. scary moment on citi field in queens. errant flow. >> hits the umpire in the face. >> oh! >> he's okay. a spin move. a nice play on the ball. the errant throw right in the side of the face, catches the umpire. got treatment for a bloody cheek but stayed in the game. wow. >> nice. >> not even close. >> glad he's okay. >> cardinals beat the mets, 7-0. 1/2 game out for second and a wild card spot. >> my daughter will be in a bad

mood. she's a mets fan. getting to the news. president biden was in california last night campaigning alongside governor gavin newsom ahead of today's rare special election. biden encouraged residents to vote no in the state's gubernatorial recall. connected newsom's top opponent in the recall as donald trump. >> keep gavin newsom as your governor or you'll get donald trump. it's not a joke. republican governor blocking progress on covid-19. who is also anti-woman, anti-worker, climate ddenier, wo doesn't believe in choice. the choice should be absolutely clear. gavin newsom. you have a governor who has the

courage to lead. in gavin, you have a governor who shares the state's values. in gavin, you have a governor who makes sure donald trump's dark, destructive, divisive politics never finds a place in california. >> today's election could have far-reaching implications. nbc news correspondent jacob soboroff has more on what's at stake. >> reporter: the president doing fire damage in northern california. one of the many crises governor newsom has faced during his term. including covid, inequality, and rising violent crime. you think this is a republican recall and only that, that there aren't unhappy people in california? >> everybody is upset with everybody in the last 18 months. nobody is denying that. this is a republican recall, backed by the rnc.

>> reporter: every voter will get two questions to vote on. should gavin newsom be recalled from the office of governor? who should replace him? across the state, ballots have been cast for weeks, mostly by mail as we saw at l.a.'s processing center. millions of ballots from the recall will be passing through this building because each and every california voter is getting a mail-in ballot. the leading gop challenger, larry elder, raised concerns about the election integrity and wouldn't commit to accepting the results. whether or not you win or lose, will you accept the results of the election tomorrow? >> i think we all ought to be looking at election integrity, no matter whether you're a democrat, independent, or republican. >> reporter: turnout in the election will be key. 23-year-old long beach resident camilla switched from democrat to republican for the vote. do you get the sense the governor understands how hard life is for you and people like you? >> no. sorry. it's upsetting. it's really upsetting. i don't mean to get emotional, but he has no idea. >> reporter: the race itself could hinge on struggling voters

like camilla who share that sentiment. it sounds like you're going to vote to recall the governor. >> i am. i am. >> reporter: newsom understands campaigning against what he sees as an undemocratic republican recall may not be enough. inequality is worse in your state than anywhere else in the united states of america. do you blame people for wanting a change in leadership? >> well, i just got here 2 1/2 years ago. >> reporter: democrats have been in power here over ten years. >> yeah. over two decades, we've led the nation in terms of some of the challenges. >> let's bring in national political correspondent for nbc news and msnbc, steve kornacki. steve, would love to get your odds on baseball, the playoffs, who is going to win the world series, but we'll do that later. let's talk right now about the recall. about two, three weeks ago, the race seemed much closer than it ever should have been for any democratic candidate in a state that donald trump only got 34% in in 2020. what are the polls looking like

now? >> they look different, joe, than a couple weeks ago. you're right. three weeks ago, a month ago, you know, we were looking at this thing and starting to say, geez, you know, is something going on here? of course, for recall supporters in a state like california, that would be monumental. biden won this by 30 when gavin newsom got elected in 2018 for the first i'm. margin was 25 points in the state. if you look at all the polls in the homestretch of this campaign, there have been eight polls in the last week of this campaign. the average is newsom surviving this thing by 14 points. no on the recall by a 14-point margin. yeah, i went back and looked at the only successful recall campaign in california history for a governor. that was back in davis, the democrat, was recalled, and arnold schwarzenegger became the governor. the week of that campaign, the average was 16 points for the recall. of course, it did end up passing

by 10 points. schwarzenegger became governor. at least from the standpoint of polling, this looks dramatically different than 2003. this looks favorable for newsom. we know polls haven't always been right lately. >> yeah, certainly. it certainly is the case in the cases where donald trump is running. steve, everybody at the table wants to ask you a question, but before we get there, got a chance to ask you a general question. for a little context. it's such a democratic state. when i was growing up, it was a state where richard nixon came from. it was a state where ronald reagan, of course, was governor. republicans at least had a 50/50 chance of winning. we remember pete wilson being blamed for turning the state blue permanently. what are the demographics of that state that make california a plus 20, plus 25, plus 30 state for the democratic party?

>> you're right. the evolution of california. i mean, we used to talk about a long time ago, orange county, south of los angeles, was the cradle in ways of the modern conservative movement. orange county voted for biden by almost ten points in the last presidential election. that's one of the aspects that changed in california. the big picture story, demographic change. if you went back to the last republican to win california in a presidential election, that was george h.w. bush in 1988 over michael dukakis. last republican to carry the election. the california electorate was 82% white. it is now under 50%. it is down to 49%. you know, california is the most diverse state in the country. the white share of the vote has come all the way down from 82% to 49%. it also, as i say, you look at orange county and one of the things you're seeing in a place like orange county is the white vote itself has shifted

certainly along educational lines. white voters with college degrees, higher income. they've been drifting away from the republican party, adding to things for the republicans in california. >> viewer's guide for tonight. every voter, every eligible voter in the state of california got a mail-in ballot. a bunch of those have been sent in. there is in-person voting today. people tune in tonight at 10:00 and waiting for the returns to come in. it's a little like the 2020 election. republicans are more likely to vote in person. maybe the mail-in is more democratic. be careful for the early numbers. how should we be watching this as it comes across? >> it is interesting tonight. basically 11:00 p.m. eastern, the polls will close in california. the way they do it is probably it might be a little different because it's just a recall election. might make it easier to count. i don't know. probably 11:20, 11:30 tonight, the board where we have california and all the counties is going to light up like a

christmas tree. what's going to happen is every county is going to release all of the mail-in ballots basically that were received, basically until about right now. you're going to have millions of votes. they've been counting them up. they've been processing ballots. they've been getting ready. they just have to release them. that's the first thing you'll see. that'll cover probably more than half the vote in california pretty quickly. you're right, there is a difference between the mail-in voting and the same day voting in california, though it is not as dramatic as we've seen elsewhere. if you look back at 2020 in california, the first reports we got from the major counties, about 11:30 at night, something like that, numbers there were about five or six points more friendly for biden than the final numbers were. this could be the kind of thing, if the polls are right, we're going to see it in the early releases. we'll see this is clearly trending toward gavin newsom. you'd need to see the same-day results come in to make sure no shocking thing is happening there. if the polls are right, this

will be callable tonight. the flip side is if you have a surprise, and if this ever became a close race, we haven't really nationally had a nationally significant close california race in this new era of mail-in voting out there. brace yourselves for that if it ever happened. it'd probably take a month. >> gene robinson has a question for you. >> yeah. steve, a lot of places, a lot of states, this would be hope fles hopelessly confusing. you have two questions on the ballot. do you have to mark both? if you say no, recall, then do you still have to pick somebody to replace him if he does get recalled, that sort of thing. on the other hand, california is used to the ballot initiatives and complicated ballots. i remember when i used to live there long ago, even then it was -- you had to be used to a complicated ballot to vote in california. is that still the case? do you expect the california

voters will take what would be confusing elsewhere in stride today? >> yeah. it is interesting. one part of it is extremely simple, yes or no on the recall. as you say, the other part is about 50 candidates in the replacement race. the variable on this, and the chance democrats have taken in this thing, and the polling suggests it'll pay off for them, but the risk democrats have taken is ignore the second part. don't even participate. don't give it any oxygen. don't vote in the replacement election. just vote against the recall. we'll kill the recall. that'll be that. the risk they're taking, obviously, if the recall ever were to pass in that replacement election, simultaneous replacement election comes into effect, it is a much smaller pool of voters. we're expecting millions of fewer votes in the replacement election because the democrats are boycotting it. larry elder has sort of consolidated the republican side of the vote in that thing. conservative commentator larry elder would probably be favored in that phase of it. 2003, when the republicans

succeeded in recalling gray davis as governor, democrats played it differently in '03. there was an insurance policy in the replacement race. the lieutenant governor at the time, democrats' message in '03 was vote against the recall but also vote so there is another one. they voted for arnold for governor, so 0 for 2 on that one. >> polls in general. we talked about the recount polls in california. we had a poll on earlier, the last hour, about mandated vaccinations. it was, you know, the usual. it was 60% democrats are for it. 30% republicans are against it. that flips on most issues. 30% democrats. 60% republicans. when you pull these polls apart, the negative, against, is it based on policy? is it based on ideology? is it based on pure hatred and distrust of the other side? >> the most interesting poll i

saw on this was an open-ended question to folks supporting the recall in california. it was, why do you want to recall newsom as governor? majority, between 50% and 60%, the answers were in the covid related realm. the biggest single one, if you remember this, was that dinner that gavin newsom had. >> the french laundry. >> the fancy restaurant. everybody sitting there close quarters, indoors, no mask, while he is imposing these mandates on the state and obviously giving lots of public talks about that. that was the most single cited thing. there was the business closures, burdens of mandates. that was the issue, that picture, that story is what galvanized the petition drive for this thing. still when you ask the open-ended question, that comes back the most. >> steve kornacki, thank you very much. we'll be watching today. some other news now. a california man who police say had a bayonet and a machete in his truck was arrested yesterday

after being pulled over near the democratic national committee headquarters in washington after midnight. nbc news reports craig had a 44-year-old from oceanside was booked on suspicion of possession of prohibited weapons, according to u.s. capitol police. at the arrest, police say the machete was on the seat of the pickup truck, which was decorated with a swastika and other symbols. craig had allegedly expressed white supremacist ideology and told police he was, quote, on patrol. family members told nbc news he was diagnosed with schizophrenia years ago and is not well. in iowa, school districts once again have the power to enact mask mandates after a federal judge temporarily blocked a state law banning them from doing so.

u.s. district judge robert pratt issued a restraining order yesterday that stopped the enforcement of a mask mandate ban and in an opinion he wrote it substantially increases the risk of several children with health conditions being infected with covid-19. in response, republican governor kim reynolds issued a statement, vowing to repeal the decision, saying that it took away parents' ability to decide what's best for their child. and apple is issuing emergency software updates to fix a security vulnerability in his products after researchers uncovered a flaw that allows hackers to infect anyone's devices with highly invasive spyware. researchers at the university of toronto's citizen lab discovered the security issue from an attack on a saudi activist's iphone. they believe the spyware came

from israel's nso group, an infamous hacker for hire firm. the vulnerability could affect all major apple devices. it is the first known instance of an attack that doesn't require the victim to click on a link or open infected files. experts say such attacks are limited to specific targets. apple users should get an alert to update their software soon. take them up on it. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll be joined by one of the lawmakers who questioned secretary of state anthony blinken yesterday about the u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan. representative abigail will be our guest. and joe's podcast drops today. hear his conversations with great names in music, movies, sports, and so much more. go to spotify, apple music, or wherever you get your podcasts. you're watching "morning joe."

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♪♪ welcome back to "morning joe." beautiful sunrise over the united states capitol at 7:28 in the morning. secretary of state antony blinken will testify before the senate foreign relations committee today that answer questions about the u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan. yesterday, secretary blinken appeared before the house foreign affairs committee, defending himself against fierce criticism from republicans. >> did the -- president biden work with the coward president of afghanistan work with

intelligence about taliban? >> what the president said to then president ghani in private is what he said in public. >> i absolutely wonder if you are complicit in this, as well. i find it hard to believe that president biden would do that without you being aware of this. these are things we deserve to know better answers, have better hearings on this. i do not believe a word that you're saying on this. >> simply put -- >> i do not wish to hear from you. >> simply put -- >> i'm not yielding you a moment of time. >> the time as expired. >> so has -- >> gentleman's time has expired. the secretary can answer the question. >> i can't ask a question. >> you did. >> i don't want to hear from the secretary. >> the gentleman's time expired. >> when he steps in front of the camera, that's what he does. >> although i deeply appreciate any and all efforts of the state department personnel on the ground to rescue american citizens, for you to try to ride the coaltails of the 13 service members who gave their lives is shameful. it shows the american people how out of touch we are. >> i'm not riding coattails.

the men and women of my department were at the gates. >> it's not a question. >> and -- >> it's a statement, not a question. >> make no mistake, mr. secretary, the biden administration's egregiously inept withdrawal has left america and the world a much less safe place. do you take any responsibility, secretary blinken, for this disastrous withdrawal, or do you still want to call it a success? >> congresswoman, i'm responsible for the decisions that i make. i'm responsible for the actions of the state department. i'm responsible for looking at any lessons to be taken from those decisions and those actions. i'm also responsible for being accountable for those decisions and actions.

>> but can you -- >> and if you let me finish, please. >> it's my time -- >> the way i'm accountable is doing exactly what i am doing today, which is to you and through you to the american people, to hold myself accountable on decisions. we made the right decision in ending america's longest war. we made the right decision in not sending a third generation of americans to fight and die in afghanistan. >> let's bring in former cia caseworker, democratic congresswoman abigail spanberger of virginia. she sits on the committee you saw there and joins us now. good morning. did we get any answers yesterday? you were in the hearing. i know you had questions. there was a lot of grandstanding. more lctures than questions. did you get satisfactory answers from the secretary? >> yesterday was the start of the conversation. i think what you depicted in the part, the clips we just saw, were a lot of the grandsanding,

grandstanding, not an effort to get answers, just media clips. from democrats and republicans, we had thoughtful, detailed questions. you know, frankly, we're looking at what's happened within the past six weeks, what's happened since the beginning of the year when the administration came into the presidency, and we've been looking at the last 20 years. yesterday was, i think, a first step forward in what i hope will be many more hearings as we conduct congressional oversight. certainly, one day's conversation about our 20 year war and the challenging departure from afghanistan will not be sufficient. >> your district is home to fort picket, which currently houses about 5,000, i believe, correct me if i'm wrong, 5,000 afghan men, women, and children who were evacuated from that country. how many more people do you sense are still in afghanistan who would like to come out and arrive somewhere like fort picket? we know there are a handful of

americans left. we need to get a better number on that. also afghans, wartime allies, people who worked with us or people, frankly, scared to live alongside the taliban. >> throughout the world, we have individuals at different lily pad locations who are waiting to go through the process to file for their sib or confirm their paperwork or p2 eligibility. and i -- from their perspective, ideally move on to the united states. there are endangered afghans who made it out of the country who are potentially going to be processed for relocation in other countries, not just the united states. certainly, other allies throughout the world have offered to take endangered afghans. and i do know that there continue to be folks on the ground in afghanistan who worked in concert with, side by side with american service members and american organizations, ngos, and some of them continue

to be in very, very deprave danger. >> congresswoman, i listen to your questioning yesterday, and you asked the secretary specifically about videos that you've seen and received, testimony you've seen and received about the condition of certain women in afghanistan. women who might have been singled out for assassination, discrimination, et cetera. how much leverage do you think the u.s. still has practically, and how much political capital is it prepared to extend in order to try to ensure that women's rights are protected in afghanistan? frankly, the early signs aren't good, right? women are told they have to stay home. they can't work alongside men. they can't get into taxis with men. some are being treated far worse than that. what do you think the u.s. can do and is prepared to do now? >> so i think this is a bit of a moving target. i think, and this was the crux of my question, i was concerned by some of the testimony of the secretary and, you know, others

from the administration, that are still kind of giving the benefit taliban. my question really was based on, is it appropriate to still give them the benefit of the doubt, and if not, how do we move forward? how do we advocate for the rights of women in afghanistan? how do we protect those who entered schools and entered university and set about being part of the government because we were there as a stabilizing factor and advocating for them to do that. i think at this point in time, it'll been incumbent upon the united states to work with allies and regional partners to continue that advocacy, but i think first and foremost, we have to be eyes wide open about the reality on the ground, which is why i asked the secretary if he has seen these disturbing videos and photos and accounts of what's happening in afghanistan currently. >> congresswoman, i want to talk

about a couple things. first, i want to discuss the insults, the shouting, those insulting him, saying everything he did and said was a lie. and then demanding the secretary of state not respond. i was shocked at the lack of decorum, the lack of respect for the institution of congress, the lack of respect for the institution of the state. and instead of getting to the facts, you had a lot of people that were just verbally prancing around and posing for the cameras. are most -- i'm just shocked. does that happen a lot in your committees? i can tell you, we impeached bill clinton. you know, we nailed his people to the wall rhetorically, but we always were respectful of the armed services committee.

our chairman demanded it of us. >> you know, the challenge here is some of the antics that you saw yesterday in the blinken hearing are part and parcel of, you know, there's a few folks on that committee that are there for the antics. you know, i have children, as you see in this picture, and sometimes you just have to -- you know, i could go back home if i wanted to listen to someone being a petulant child, though, my children, let's be clear, do not behave like that. it's preening for the camera. it's not respecting the constitutional duty of oversight. we're supposed to be asking questions, and there is, in fact, assertion that you don't even want to hear an answer. it's a five-minute speech. you can do that elsewhere. the secretary's time is valuable. our time is valuable. and the american people's time is valuable.

we want answers. there are many questions that i still need answered from the secretary, from this administration, and, frankly, because it is about looking backwards, what happened in the past. it is also about helping to ensure that we're moving forward. i will say, one of the most spectacular questions that we heard during the hearing came from my colleague, congressman castro of texas, who remarked on the fact that, in the 9/11 commission review, that one of the findings was that there were so many state department officials who were not in confirmed positions. so many bush administration officials hadn't actually received senate confirmation. and congressman castro's comment was, like, this was a learning of something that went wrong back in 2001, and here we are with about half of the numbers of confirmed state department officials compared to where we were in 2001 because we have one senator who is standing in the way of confirmation of these --

an array of under secretaries who are vital to being able to move forward on the mission related to things that katty was talking about. such as, you know, ensuring we can work with our regional partners to advocate for women and girls. ensuring the department is handling afghanistan and regional equities are well staffed. these are the sorts of things we're supposed to bring forward in these hearings. some people did it very, very effectively. some people were there just for the clicks and the -- i don't know, the celebrity of it, which is not the job. that is not the duty. >> no, it's not the duty at all. it's disrespectful of the institution of congress. and everybody else involved. gene robinson has a question. gene? >> congresswoman, what did

you -- despite all the preening and all the showboating that you heard from the other side of the aisle, i know you don't think you've gotten enough, but did you get a start from secretary blinken, and do you understand better the biden administration's policy in the way the withdrawal was handled? is that still somehow opaque to you? >> no, i think that across the conversation -- and, frankly, on both sides of the aisle, some people asked some very, very good, foundational questions. so i think we were able to get very good foundational questions that's a strong point moving forward. some of the historical analysis and assessments of, okay, when the administration came in in january, what were you moving forward with? you had a deal. did you have a plan from the prior administration? what were the inputs they were dealing with? so i did think it was a very

good starting point. the secretary, i think, answered the questions in detail. you know, even if you didn't like the answers to the questions that he gave, i think he gave very good, detailed answers. certainly gave us some kind of initial steps forward that have caused a lot of us to have some follow up. i'm pleased, particularly in my district. i represent fort pickett, where there are 5,000 evacuees, could be up to 10,000. there are particularly questions that i have had. i've engaged directly with the administration. to be able to speak of those evacuations, those evacuees in my district directly with the secretary, you know, he gave good initial answers. in some of the cases he said, "we don't know yet. i'll have to get back to you." i think this signals it needs to be a continued conversation. frankly, it is still an evolving process. for those of us who are particularly focused on looking forward, you know, the conversation continues.

and the further we get into the future, i think, a little bit more clarity we'll have looking back on what went right, what went wrong, and how we mitigated risk or how we could have done better or, frankly, a greater clarity about the situation that this administration had taken over. in fairness, clarity about the situation this prior administration had taken over and clarity about the situation that the administration before that had taken over, right? there's 20 years worth of decisions and pivot points, and that will be a longer process. i thought yesterday was a very good firsttuning into portions the senate hearing, which i hope will be additive to what we began yesterday. from there, we should continue the process of oversight, which is our constitutional duty and something that is so, so vitally important. >> congresswoman spanberger, thank you very much for coming on this morning. thanks for everything you do.

coming up, it's almost mind boggling to think about all the huge stories over the past 13 years. our next guest is doing exactly that with a collection of columns covering some of the most hot button issues in america. author george will joins us with his new book next on "morning joe."

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we'll keep you ready for what's next. comcast business powering possibilities. 47 past. the u.s. capitol police chief yesterday gave congressional leaders an intelligence briefing about the upcoming demonstration at the capitol dubbed the

justice for j-6 rally. in support of those jailed for activities during the capitol insurrection. nbc news reports new security cameras have been installed around the complex perimeter, and there is an increased presence of police officers. we'll be watching that. let's bring in "washington post" columnist george will. his new book out today is entitled "american happiness and discontents, the unruly torrent, 2008 to 2020." george, in it, you write about the kind of divisiveness that led up to the january 6th attack on the capitol. in fact, i'll quote from it. "it has been well said that the united states is the only nation founded on a good idea, the proposition that people should be free to pursue happiness as they define it. in recent years, however, happiness has been elusive for

this dyspeptic nation, in which too many people think and act as tribes and define their happiness as some other tribe's unhappiness. as a quintessentially american voice, that of robert frost, said, the only way out is through. perhaps the information, the reasoning, and i hope the occasional amusements in this book can help readers think through and, thereby, diminish our current discontents." >> george, talk about the unruly torrent over the last 12, 13 years. as you were putting these essays together, what was your biggest takeaway of your own writings over that time and where we are today? >> well, i'm struck by the fact, joe, that we're arguing about things that are hard to put down on pieces of paper. what legislation would diffuse

this? in the 19th century, we argued about whether one set of human beings with own another set of human beings, and whether slavery should extend into the territories, and what to do with public lands. big issues that you could address with the law. i think today so much of our bitterness is issues that wouldd by the law. i think people feeling con did he -- condescended by other people. i'm also struck, joe, by the fact that some cultural changes are rippling in disturbing ways. somewhere along the line in the last 20 years, the noun parent became the verb parenting, and two-parent. we now have the idea that perfectionism will produce wonderful children for everybody, but it's going to be like woebegone where all children are above average.

then they'll be raised by parents who protect them from all risks who convince them they're all special, and they get to college and they feel threatened by -- because they've been raised by risk-averse parents and have never had to fail which is part of what's called growing up, so they get to colleges and then they demand safe spaces and they become exquisitely sensitive to microaggressions. the problem is what happens on campus doesn't stay on campus, it leaks out to a larger society where everyone is exquisitely sensitive, constantly unhappy, and we now have a nation in which a large number of people are only happy when they're furious, so far as i can tell. a long time ago there was a radio program called fibber, mcgee and molly. molly would say to her husband, if it makes you happy to be unhappy, be unhappy. it seems like a lot of americans are like that today. >> we had a psychiatrist on a few weeks ago.

one of my favorite segments over the past couple of months, because he was speaking to me and millions of parents over the past 20 years, and said stop bubble wrapping your children. stop stepping in, stop trying to take away all of the inconveniences, all of the difficult situations. let them suffer consequences, and when they go off to school, they won't be frail emotionally. they'll understand that by facing those challenges and walking through them, you'll get to the other side and you'll be stronger for it. it sounds exactly like what you're saying. >> exactly. the country seems to me to be addicted to hysteria. may i say something about the fence around the capitol? that an obscenity. it tells the world that the united states is like a banana republic in which the government is worried about arrestive tank

regimen at the edge of town. the idea that we have to envelop the epicenter of the american government, the united states capitol building, in this fence to protect it from what? this communicates to the world and to our own nation that we are somehow a fragile people and a fragile country. this country wasn't made by fragile people, and it is not fragile. and that obscenity of a fence should be taken down by noon today. >> george, in this collection of columns and essayessays, you ra not for the first time, our obsession with presidents, making them larger than life, bigger than they are. it's an important job, everyone knows that. but there seems to be no end to our intensity in terms of coverage of presidents. >> partly it's a function of new modern communication's first radio which had a bigger effect

on our politics than even television did, with roosevelt and others. but television brings presidents into our living rooms constantly all day long. the idea that the presidency should be the direct translation of the public mood into law goes all the way back to andrew jackson, i suppose, but it's been exacerbated in modern times so that today the entire constitutional architecture has been skewed, and the separation of powers badly damaged by presidents who believe that they can, to take one recent example, come out and say, i am impatient about the vaccine resistance, and, therefore, i'm going to exercise powers that i don't think he really has, ordering vaccine mandates. look, the president's exaspiration is understandable. vaccine resistance is

irrational. but the fact is presidents do not have police powers. those belong to the states, and the states can order mandates, presidents can't. and we just have to understand the constitutional government requires patience. and presidential impatience is not a constitutional factor. >> george, you are a conservative. you are one of my very favorite conservatives. but i wonder if -- what future do you see for conservatism? it seems to me that the forces that are ascended in our politics are progressive on the one hand and populist on the other, and not conservative like yourself. >> whatever populism is conservatism isn't. populism believes that everything is clear, known to

the public and should be directed into the policy and not be refined in the constitution. that is the antithesis of conservatism. gene, there is no place for conservatism in the republican party right now because we have an absolutely unique situation. we have a republican party who are -- they won't say this -- are frightened of their voters. and because they're frightened of them, they don't much like them. because they don't like them, they don't respect them. it's a very tension-ridden relationship between the republican's elected officials and the republican base. until the republican party gets back to something like the principles that made it a vibrant force in the '80s and '90s, conservatives are, as i say, orphans.

>> all right, the new book is "american happiness and discontents: the unruly torrent 2008 to 2020." george will, thank you so much for your insights and analysis today, and congratulations on the book. still ahead, senate democrats are out with new voting rights legislation this morning. majority leader chuck schumer is pushing for a vote, but will any republicans be on board? plus the latest on the flood threat from tropical storm nicholas. parts of texas could see more than a foot of rain as the storm moves inland today. "morning joe" is coming right back. g right back

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ah, good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, september 14, and i think jimmy fallon has really captured things. >> first of all, i like bill de blasio, come on. >> i love bill de blasio. >> and the jets, the punchline is always, willie, and of course a line lifted there sort of from that marty scorcese friend leibovitz, pretend it's a city, pretend it's a city. like people actually go to work here! >> there is moisture on the seats of the subway, i can report, there are smells emanating from the platforms. it's coming back.

the scents remind you of a great new york city. >> it is wonderful to be in new york. we have a lot happening this morning with a big red circle around today's date on the calendar in california. the state is deciding whether governor gavin newsom should be removed from office with newsom seemingly surging. republicans who wanted the recall in the first place are now claiming -- you guessed it -- voter fraud. >> what idiots. >> oh, my god. >> let's just say undemocratic. >> featuring false claims about elections, former president trump has plans to be back in washington for a rally defending the insurrectionists. how the capitol police are preparing for that. with us we have white house reporter for the associated press, jonathan lemire, washington editor katty kaye is with us and jim sherman.

today is the day. california will decide whether to keep gavin newsom their governor or not. president biden encouraged residents to vote no in the state gubernatorial recall, and battling a bit of a cough, connected newsom's top opponent in the recall with donald trump. >> you can keep gavin newsom as your governor or you'll get donald trump. it's not a joke. a republican governor blocking progress on covid-19 who is also anti-woman, anti-worker, climate denyer, who doesn't believe in choice. the choice should be absolutely clear. gavin newsom. you have a governor who has the courage to lead!

and, gavin, you have a governor who shares the state's values. in gavin you have a governor who makes sure trump's dark politics never have a place in california. >> we may have defeated donald trump but we ever not defeated trumpism. trumpism is still on the ballot in california, and that's why it's so important, not just for all of us here, 40 million americans strong in the nation's largest and most populist state, but also to send a statement all across the united states of america that trumpism has no place here, and trumpism will be defeated all across the united states of america! because we're better than that! >> governor newsom there. meanwhile, as mika mentioned, the leading republican frontrunner, larry elder, appealed to his supporters to

use an online report to claim detected fraud in the results of the reelection in terms of gavin newsom being reinstated as governor. the only problem is the election hadn't happened yet. no results yet and elder was still out campaigning. they contacted elder about the site. a disclaimer about who funded the site was added. elder repeatedly used to say whether he would accept the results of the recall election. >> reporter: whether or not you win or lose, will you accept the results of the election tomorrow? >> i think we all ought to be looking at election integrity, whether you're a democrat, independent or republican. let's all make sure the election is a fair election, so let's all work together no matter what the results are to make sure the results are valid and legitimate and everybody who voted should have voted. >> is that a commitment to accept the results tomorrow?

>> let's all work together on both sides of the aisle to make sure this is a fair election. >> this is what everybody feared after donald trump stoked lies about the 2020 election that all republicans who thought they would lose the polling would use fraudulent elections as the excuse now. before the votes have been cast, before the ballots have been counted, claims of voter fraud to explain away a potential election loss. >> what whiners. what losers. these poor little snowflakes are going around. every time it looks like they'll lose an election, they say, oh, the election got stolen. they cheated. seriously? this is elemental. you tell your kids when they're playing a game to play as hard as they can play it, and then when the game is over, shake the other team's hand and be a good loser.

here we have one after another after another republican just whining. i guess it is their strategy. they understand, and especially in places like california, that their policies are extraordinarily unpopular. they are on the wrong side of so many issues. they are on the wrong side of vaccine mandates. they are on the wrong side of overturning a constitutionally protected right in the state of texas that 70% of americans say they don't want overturned. they're on the wrong side of issue after issue. they're on the wrong side of january 6. they're on the wrong side of investigating the insurrection. they're on the wrong side of just about everything. so what do they do, katty kaye? they, of course, act like the illiberal leader of hungary, a person that a lot of conservatives are praising now, and they love the fact that

orbon has shut down any criticism from the press, love that he's basically taken control of the courts, love that it's no longer a democrat, it's no longer a western democracy there. that's what republicans want in california, that's what republicans want across the united states. elections are only valid if they win. >> it certainly is what tucker carlson said when he went to hungary. it's not what you would think about as an american democracy, what's happening in hungary or poland, either. but claiming the election is rigged before the election has even happened is taking things to a new low in california, but is, in fact, donald trump's playbook. he spent the whole year before the election saying, this is going to get rigged. it's a bit the same way he kept telling his supporters from the beginning, the press is the

enemy of the people. you're doing the same thing, undermining the freedom of the press, but when you lose, it lets you turn around and say the media was against us. that's what people used to say when they lost. now they're taking it one step further, candidates in the trump mode, the election was actually stolen from us. you won't see the same kind of outcry in california because he's so far behind in the polls, and the california libertarian interesting republican party in california is unlikely, i think, to behave the same way trump supporters did on january 6 here in washington, d.c. it's certainly a model they've taken from donald trump's playbook. and i guess trumplike candidates are going to keep using that when they go into elections and start spreading it before the election actually happens so they can give themselves up for the result afterwards. up next we'll stay in washington for the fight over voting rights. there are new developments this morning on the push for election integrity. what it might mean at the ballot

box next november. but first, let's go right to bill karans for serious weather headed for texas. >> now it's headed for louisiana again today, mika. this time they made it to barely a hurricane category, one status south of the houston area, and the storm is currently located over houston. the winds went on shore, knocked out power to about 300,000 people in texas, now all the heavy rain is headed to louisiana. we have 3 million people under a flood watch. very dangerous drives this morning on interstate 10, especially, from houston all the way towards new orleans. the new update from the hurricane center, the wind is now at 60 miles per hour and i hadn't seen additional power outages. but look at all the bright yellows and reds on this map. there is a lot of heavy rain in louisiana. look at these numbers.

we've had eight landfalls already this year. we had 11 landfalls and tropical storms last year, so 19 total. on average we have three a season. we should have six in two years, not 19. so much damage has been taking place along the gulf coast. we still have tropical storm warnings from houston to galveston to port arthur and beaumont. winds are not that bad right now, so very minor additional damage. i'm not expecting any wind damage in beaumont or louisiana. it's all a big huge rain story, and the story is going to be how slowly this thing moves. today about 250 miles. watch out this evening, new orleans, that's when the heavy rain is expected for you. then tomorrow it drifts about 115 miles, and even into thursday, this storm is going to linger in this area, and that's why we can see bands and bands of rain in the new orleans area. the forecast calls for upwards of 10 inches of rain from lake charles to new orleans. of course, these are the same

people still recovering from only ida two weeks ago. there are still 100,000 people in louisiana from that storm, and now they have to deal with this today. we'll keep you tuned in to that all day today and tomorrow on "morning joe" to let you know how it is in areas of louisiana. other stories out there, washington, d.c., it feels like the middle of summer. hot and humid today. we'll have more coming up here on "morning joe." e coming up hee on "morning joe. [sfx: radio being tuned] welcome to allstate. ♪ [band plays] ♪ a place where everyone lives life well-protected. ♪♪ and even when things go a bit wrong, we've got your back. here, things work the way you wish they would. and better protection costs a whole lot less. you're in good hands with allstate. click or call for a lower auto rate today.

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democrats in the senate unveiled an updated voting rights bill. the freedom to vote act is backed by a group of eight senators, including senator joe manchin of west virginia. the bill is an updated version of a framework released by senator manchin earlier this year. the legislation is split into

three sections, voter access and election administration, election integrity and civic participation and empower.. democrats want to act fast. majority leader chuck schumer says he'll call a vote by next week. >> the republican-led war on democracy has only worsened in the last few weeks. most notably, the governor of texas recently signed into law a vile new voter suppression bill which is the least democratic in memory. they are providing vicious gerrymandering which further divides our politics. this is unacceptable. the senate must act. i intend to hold a vote in the senate early next week on voter legislation. time, time is of the essence. >> and if you're going to cure gerrymandering or at least do their best to fix it, if they're

going to implement a lot of these changes, democrats still need at least ten republicans to join them to move the bill forward. in fact, the reauthorization of the civil rights voting act in 2006 almost passed unanimously, but you can't even find one republican to vote for these voting rights bills should tell us that we're still -- whether it's manchin's bill or somebody else's bill, we're still a long way from this passing unless there is some major filibuster reform. >> yeah, joe, at the risk of being yelled at on twitter all day, this is a press release. i mean, yes, it's important that democrats got 50 of their own lawmakers around this compromise, which was done by amy klobuchar and joe manchin. they are still, as you know, ten republicans short of getting this across the finish line in a republican conference where not one republican i've spoken to or that i've found believes that

anything like this is necessary. so they're not even singing from the same song sheet, they're not working from the same set of facts, and unless there is some action to rework the filibuster which joe manchin and kyrsten sinema have said until their eyes have bled that they're not interested in doing, then this is just going to be a vote that shows that all democrats are on the same page, but this is no closer to law in any way, shape or form. >> jonathan lemire, is there any chance that after joe manchin is allowed to put out his bill and to do all the things that he thinks needs to be done, and if the republicans run over him again, just like the republicans ran over him on the january 6 commission, that he will work with the white house and others to put together a filibuster reform package, at least, for civil rights bills that will do the same thing for civil rights

bills that mitch mcconnell did for supreme court nominees? >> there is a chance, joe. in fact, talks have intensified behind the scenes at the white house on this very subject matter. senior aides i've talked to say that though no final decision has been made, there is growing momentum within the corridors of the west wing and in the oval office to support some sort of filibuster change and work with those senators who have been resistant to that. manchin is not alone, there are others. he is sort of the face of the more moderate democratic senators who have been resistant to say the size of the infrastructure package or the filibuster. as jake said, this is a press release. it doesn't really stand any chance of actual passage. we have heard from the president both publicly, and he has said

privately to his closest advisors, that he is not in support of a full removal of the filibuster but is amenable to some sort of change, an amendment to it, a tweak to it, perhaps making it a talking point, or chaning it to a certain point. the voting rights is the greatest change to democracy since the civil war. there have been discussions now to let this play out over the next couple weeks. then yes, i think we may see more talks about getting something out there to protect voting rights. >> while they're working on that, they're also talking about how to fund these big plans. billionaires have avoided paying taxes for years. will that change with this new legislation? that discussion is next on "morning joe." joe."

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democrats in the house presented a plan yesterday to pay for their own social policy and climate change package by raising taxes by more than $2

trillion largely on wealthy people and profitable corporations. but this morning the "new york times" reports that plan, quote, stopped well short of changes needed to dent the vast fortunes of tycoons like jeff bezos or elon musk or to close the loopholes that aim to go for the merely rich rather than the fabulously rich. senior house democrats opted to be more mindful of moderate concerns in their party than of its progressive ambitions. they focused on traditional ways of raising revenue by raising tax rates on income rather than targeting wealth itself. this is on one committee as it

makes its way to congress. that doesn't get at the way the super wealthy and corporations make their money and avoid taxes. >> and we see it every year. i don't understand what's going on when you have the people writing the tax bill for the democrats saying they're concerned about moderates' concerns? do they want jeff bezos and amazon to keep paying zero dollars? is that a moderate concern or is that a lobbyist's concern? over the past few years, there are corporations that have paid zero taxes in a year, and just over the past couple years that includes amazon, chevron, avis, delta, e.i. lily, honeywell, netflix, salesforce, u.s. steel. last year archer daniels, fedex, nike, on and on and on.

are moderates really concerned that those corporations may actually have to pay millions of dollars in taxes? because right now they're paying zero. and billionaires are continuing to figure out how to pay little or nothing. hedge fund titans are paying taxes at lower rates than their clerical employees, and the people who show off their bentleys. do you think that's demagoguery? no, it's not. that's a fact. billionaires' capital doesn't get taxed. workers' wages do. so now democrats in congress are saying we need to raise the taxes on people who are working but leave billionaires alone as they continue to amass capital and continue -- listen to me here! listen to me here!

because everybody hates incumbent distribution. that makes you a socialist, doesn't it? if you're for a scheme that redistributes wealth, well, let me tell you something. in the world we've lived in in the past 40 years, there's been the largest income redistribution scam in american history. and it's been the middle class that's been looted while trillions keep flowing into the bank accounts of billionaires. did you hear what i just said? did you hear what i just said? this whole income redistribution thing we keep -- oh, you can't raise taxes on people. because that will be income redistribution. you're a socialist. well, guess what? the very people who are saying that, the very people who are funding think tanks that will say that, the very people that are paying the lobbyists to get the message out to say that, the very people who are spending millions and millions of dollars on lawyers and lobbyists on k

street who are saying that, they're the people who have scammed you. they're the people whose monopolies continue to be untouched. they continue to be untouched all because they can buy the best lobbyists, they can buy the best lawyers, they can buy the best influencers on capitol hill across washington, d.c. and across wall street. please. please, democrats. do better than that. tax capital, take a dent on these super wealthy billionaires who keep accumulating, keep amassing fortunes. because you're just -- when you're taxing income a little bit more, 2% here, 3% here, you're missing the target. if you want to make this country a fairer place, if you want to

get us back to where we were before where there wasn't just such massive divergence between the super wealthy and the rest of americans, you're going to have to rewrite your tax plan. because that one is just lousy. katty kay, we've seen the super wealthy accumulate fortunes through capital, capital accumulation that is not taxed or taxed at extraordinarily low rates, where people who work for a living, people who have an income keep getting taxed at higher rates every year. >> yeah, it's kind of stunning that this is not a bigger conversation here in washington and amongst the democratic party that taxing dividends and taxing capital, taxing wealth effectively rather than income is actually something you're going to make some kind of dent on what has been incredibly rapidly growing inequality in this country. you've had people like warren buffett over the years who have said this has to stop. warren buffett one of the super wealthy people in this country

have said you have to go after wealth, you have to go after dividends because it's just not fair that he is paying, as he says, less than his secretary is paying in terms of taxes. when you keep fiddling around with the marginal rate on incomes going from 37 to 39, you're just not going to get there. you will squeeze those people who are wealthier who are taking back, you know, 400, 500, $600,000 a year, but you're not going to touch the ones who don't have income. coming up, for those fleeing the country is just half the battle. many face challenges once they're out, and that's where our next guest comes in. that discussion just ahead on "morning joe." ahead on "morning joe."

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some breaking news just in to us from the associated prss, the kremlin said vladimir putin is going into isolation because of issues within his inner circle. the covid drive in russia has lacked than other countries. 20% have been fully vaccinated. the russian leader is, quote, absolutely healthy. putin is fully vaccinated with russia's version of the vaccine, mika. and here in the united states, the husband of a california nurse who died of complications from covid-19 more than two weeks ago has now died after battling the disease himself, leaving behind five young children, including a newborn. dovvy mesias was 37 and daniel mesias was 39.

the couple leave behind five children, ages 7, 5, 3, 2 and three weeks. dovvy mesias was unvaccinated. she said she did so because she was pregnant, her sister-in-law told nbc news. it was unclear if daniel was vaccinated. the cdc urged all pregnant women to get vaccinated, two weeks before dovvy mesias' death. daniel mesias wanted to wait before naming their newborn daughter. their now three-week-old daughter remains unnamed. all five of these children are being cared for by their grandparents. on capitol hill today, secretary of state antony blinken will testify before the senate committee to answer questions about the u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan. the day after he did the same before the house foreign affairs

committee. while there is still concern for those who remain in afghanistan under taliban rule, the last member of afghanistan's jewish community has been evacuated from the country, but one jewish organization is urging the biden administration to get more people out who are at risk. in a "usa today" op-ed, rabbi berkowitz of the jewish family service draws stark comparison of people in afghanistan under the taliban and the horrors the jewish people went through during the holocaust. he says it is a moral duty to help those left behind. rabbi berkovitz joins us now. i appreciate you being on with us. first of all, tell us about the people that your organization has heard from. you're hearing directly from them, people who are scared and who are telling you what is behind their fears.

can you share that with us? >> sure, absolutely. thank you for having me on. we have 123 people, roughly 73 of their are children that have been left behind. they are in hiding. they are moving from house to house to really play hide and seek, a deadly game with the taliban, trying to stay safe. they're running out of money. they are reporting to us that they are seeing witness to execution in the streets, they've witnessed beatings, and obviously that is really tremendously increasing the fear. they're afraid to go out. if they go out, they're afraid they'll be caught, and it's untenable for this to continue. we are just working with 123, but we know there are hundreds of thousands of people that are there. >> so, now, are you talking specifically about americans or afghans who worked with the united states of america, or how broad does this group of people go in terms of what you are

saying is our duty? >> yeah, i am talking specifically about people who worked with coalition forces, people who worked for the united states government. these are people who we are responsible to. we made promises to them. we have put them at risk, and we have an obligation to help get them out. we need to really cut through the politics of this, we need to work together as a country. i believe firmly we need to have a person, a czar, appointed specifically to work with those people left behind to work with coalition forces. we're talking about people to work with coalition forces and their families who are at risk because they worked with coalition forces. >> i was at pentagon last week and talking with admiral kirby and other folks there that they're trying, they're doing everything they can, working with this sort of precarious relationship with the taliban and qatar stepping up to try and get people out. what more should the administration be doing?

what are you seeing that is lacking? >> well, we know they've gotten a couple flights out, because that's been widely reported that they've gone to qatar. the concern, or the question i have, is if they've done that, why can't they do more? they need to create a safe passage, they need to not only get people to the airport, they need to get them out of the airport. if they need to work with a third country to get processing, we should do that. if they need to create vetting in that third country, they should do that. if they need to significantly increase the number of people doing that vetting and providing those visas, they should do that. i think we have the capacity as a country. we're the united states. however, i don't think we're putting a point person in charge who is working -- i'm talking again about a czar of some kind who is working with all the different departments to really work through the work streams to make sure there is somebody managing the diplomatic

side across all the countries. there is someone managing communication with the families. we have people who are getting fake messages from the taliban trying to get them to come out of hiding. that's not tenable. we need to help folks actually get to this country. in addition, we have a family who is in hiding in pakistan because when the embassy closed, the embassy destroyed their passports and they never returned them. so they had to sneak across the border into pakistan, but the u.s. embassy in pakistan has yet to return or to reissue some travel papers. again, we're talking about their afghan passport, let alone some sort of united states documentation at this point. i think there are many fronts that this could be done. >> rabbi berkovitz, could you give our audience an idea of what it's like to try to help some of these families in afghanistan with no american contact and no american presence

on the ground in a taliban-controlled country? how do you even begin to do that? >> one of the things i think we really need is a way -- and i think the united states is well positioned for this -- to help people understand the difference between fact and fiction. there is a tremendous amount of rumors. we get these messages of people in fear here that this is happening or that is happening. we're trying to determine what is real and give them actionable information or tell them it's not happened. and i think the united states government could really help with that effort as well. right now it's a coalition of really just people like our organization, like myself, like my colleagues really just trying to communicate what is real. people are very afraid, and they're more and more afraid each day that passes, because what's happening is the taliban is going to their former homes and ransacking them. what that means is they can't return to their homes because they know they're being tracked, and they feel like time is running out. i think that we need a point

person really coordinating all of these efforts across all the various departments. i think it's been a great effort that's been done so far, but it's efficient -- it is necessary but not sufficient. >> rabbi, just to clarify, the taliban had at one point said that they would not be taking reprisals against people who had worked with the coalition forces. from what you're hearing today in afghanistan, that doesn't seem to be the case. you're hearing that the taliban is taking reprisals and is acting dangerously towards people who worked for the coalition, that their lives are at risk because they worked with the coalition. is that correct? >> absolutely. we utterly cannot listen to the word of the taliban and trust that that's what's happening. they're trying to gain standing on a world stage, but our folks are sending us voice messages, text messages, photos.

we have pictures of the dead, we have video of people being beaten on the street, women being attacked and beaten and slashed. under no circumstances would i believe that the taliban is saying anything close to true, and that is because they served with coalition forces. if they served with coalition forces, they're being thrown in the back of trunks of cars and driven away. thrown in the back of trunks of cars and driven away and not heard from. so we know that what they're saying is utterly not true, which is why we need our government to really put a point person in place, and that point person can then communicate with us, because we and all the other folks that are like our organization are just trying to understand what is happening, what is the plan, what's the status of various visas that are in place, who is coordinating all of these efforts, how can we get people to the airport safely, how can we get them on these planes which we know are

taking off. secretary blinken said yesterday they have appointed a person in charge, or they're about to, to manage women's issues. i think that's extraordinarily important. we need a point person specifically to manage all areas of the operation to get people out of afghanistan. these are our allies. these are people who served as interpreters. these are people who put their lives at risk because of us, to save and to help save our own military on the ground. we owe it to these people. they feel betrayed if we don't. we as a country have to really question our integrity if we don't really step up. that's not to say there hasn't been tremendous efforts being done, there has, it just needs to be more, it needs to be more coordinated. i would suggest that that czar report to the white house directly. it is clear that there is just too much on secretary blinken's plate. i also want to call on all of those who will be in the hearing

today to ask really concrete questions. stop with the politics, stop with the point scoring, and let's just try to actually do what's right. let's hold up our moral obligation and let's help get our allies into safety. >> rabbi will berkovitz, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we really appreciate it. up next, the leading republican looking to replace governor gavin newsom in today's recall election is already claiming election fraud? really. we'll talk about a new renewed call to hold those pushing bogus election claims accountable. keep it right here on "morning joe." keep it right here on "morning joe. >> tech: every customer has their own safelite story. this couple was on a camping trip... ...when their windshield got a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech: that's service you can trust.

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the difference between excellence and mastery is all the difference in the world. the lexus es. every curve, every innovation, every feeling... a product of mastery. get 1.9% apr financing on the 2021 es 350. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. welcome back to "morning joe." as california voters go to the polls today to decide the political future of governor gavin newsom, the leading republican in the recall election larry elder is already claiming newsom won, but fraud was detected in the results. the election hasn't taken place yet. when elder was asked about this by nbc news, he repeatedly refused to say if he would accept results of the election. similar to what we saw leading up to the 2020 election, when donald trump was asked again and again if he would accept results if he lost. as of this morning, he still has

not. >> yeah. ahead of the 2020 election, news week editor in chief tom rogers wrote lawyers should be held accountable by state bar associations for helping to push his false claims. now ahead of today's recall election, tom is calling for more penalties against those attorneys. the new piece is co-written with former senator tim worth. tom joins us now. tom, this is part of the framework of the legal system, that lawyers need to be held to account as well, especially if they do corrupt work. how would this work. how is it not working. what still needs to happen? >> thanks for having me, mika. it is clear it has become a central organizing principle of republican politics today to get people convinced that election results shouldn't be believed, and lawyers who are the foot soldiers in these efforts need to be held responsible with the

most severe consequences. bar associations didn't heed warnings that they ought to caution people before the election and you saw what happened. last month we had a terrific opinion out of a federal judge in michigan who sanctioned nine of the trump lawyers, including sidney powell and lynn wood for participation in putting forward lies to try to create a record to me. they wanted a record what state legislatures used to overturn elections in swing states. not only sanctioned, the judge referred all nine of those cases to the underlying licensing board in the states where those lawyers are licensed to practice law saying disbarment proceedings should be considered by those state bars. that's an important decision. the issue is that these lawyers

licensed in texas, georgia, nevada, michigan, there are devout republicans at the highest levels of bar disciplinary boards and bar associations. it is clear whether the disbarment proceedings which should go forward are going to happen. >> and what needs perhaps to be added in framework, is there legislation to make sure that lawyers like this are held accountable. and this is happening now, we are hearing percolations of it in california. i mean, are we looking at a trend, and what are you concerned about there? >> well, this needs to be dealt with at the state level with state bar associations and disciplinary boards. new york is showing the way, the appeals court and grievance

committee and new york bar association has begun disciplinary proceedings against former mayor giuliani for his participation in the january 6th riots among other things, so there clearly are states taking these responsibilities very clearly. we've got to make sure all lawyers of integrity, and i am a lawyer, i don't believe that's oxymoron, all lawyers of integrity in these states need to step up and make sure disciplinary proceedings go forward. disbarment is actually a result. because 2020 was just a warmup for 2024. and while we have federal legislations being considered to deal with some of these things as you talked about earlier, the filibuster needing to be overturned by no means sure to get federal results, and the state legislatures controlled by republicans are setting up

apparatus to overturn legitimate election results again and lawyers again will be the foot soldiers in those efforts. if the most severe consequences aren't imposed, there won't be the disincentives against doing these things come the next election. >> editor at large at newsweek. good to have you on this morning. we have a few moments left for final thoughts. willie geist. >> i'm going back to the interview with dr. fauci a couple hours ago. he said something, mike barnicle, about the unvaccinated. laid out health risks, even if you're healthy of not having the vaccine, and then went on to say something larger. quote, it isn't all about you. you're not in a vacuum. you're part of a society. making the case that you don't want the vaccine, okay. but what about the kids, what about the teachers, what about the people in your community. >> and we had a dreadful example of what happens when people

ignore advice to get vaccines. mika just presented the story of the young woman in california pregnant, doesn't get vaccinated. she's now dead from the virus. her husband died from the same virus that we are all threatened by two weeks later. they left five young children now being cared for by grandparents. get vaccinated. >> the grandparents say the kids are running around saying where are mom and dad, where are mom and dad, they can't understand they're not coming home. >> one just three weeks old. that story is so sad. i think about what the rabbi said, a case for why america needs to carry on helping allies. let's hope the secretary of states get some of that on in the senate when he is testifying. >> thank you all. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up coverage right now. hi there, i am stephanie

ruhle live at msnbc world headquarters in new york city. it is tuesday, september 14th. this morning, we are following several major stories. overnight, two of the fda top vaccine experts arguing against the need for booster shots now, despite a push from the white house to roll them out in the next few months. this as we get shocking new infection numbers among children. in our nation's capital, tony blinken back in the hot seat. the secretary of state set to testify before the senate in the next hour after a day of grilling from house members over the chaotic exit from afghanistan. the congressman who led that hearing will be here soon. and moments ago, we got the latest report on inflation, the rise in prices may be starting to cool down. hallelujah, praise the lord. we have to start in the state of california where today is election day. 40 million people are waking up to a rare recall and they have until 8:00 p.m.