oh, have a different point of view on it. and i think that people, again, like they have these fears and they manifest itself in really dark ways sometimes. but ultimately she continues to be who she is and i think that she's set out to do, you know, exactly what she has done. >> you can catch my full interview with aurora james this saturday on my show, "american voices" at 6:00 p.m. eastern. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. >> how are you doing, alicia? i will definitely tune in. that sounds like a fascinating interview. thank you very much, have a great evening. good evening, everyone. we begin "the reidout" with the never-ending right wing freak out. tucker carlson trotting out an irrelevant comedian, former snl goat boy, jim brewer, to explain why he is not a demon, in his

words, for choosing to go unvaccinated in a pandemic. >> i'm not vaccinated. i had covid. you're not going to tell me about my body. i know -- i know my body. i know my morals. i know my faith. you don't come telling me and threaten me and everyone else as if we're the demons. >> last i checked, contracting covid had nothing to do with faith or morals. but what is moral is trying to protect the health of your fellow man, woman and child by getting vaccinated. and what seems rather immoral is that 666,000 americans have died during the pandemic, meaning one in every 500 americans has perished from the virus. they're still dying after a vaccine came to exist that could have kept them alive. if members of america's new death cult, these hard-core anti-vaxxers don't check their morals and do the right thing, that number will continue to rise. we continue to see devastating and tragic real-world

consequences. an unvaccinated mother who died before even getting to hold her infant son. she thought covid wasn't that real of a virus. a texas 4-year-old who died after contracting covid from her unvaccinated mom. heartbreaking stories that underscore the reality that this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated, and it's still crushing hospitals. this week alaska's largest hospital said that it will begin rationing care amid an overload of covid patients. it joins idaho, where parts of the state were already rationing care. this week a proudly unvaccinated doctor, who once referred to the vaccine as needle rape, seriously, began work on a public health board. and today amid idaho's worst covid surge yet, officials said that hospitals may start rationing care there as well. underscoring just how much the simple fact of getting vaccinated impacts your fellow man, in washington state,

idaho's crisis is already becoming their crisis, as already strapped washington hospitals face an influx of patients from across the state line. with me now is justin gill, urgent care nurse practitioner and vice president of the washington state nurses association boardof directors, and tim miller, writer at large for the bulwark. so idaho's hospitals are also overwhelmed. we have npr talking about their hospitals are totally overrun but there's still a lot of skepticism of the vaccine so people are not getting vaccinated. the vaccination rates in idaho is among the lowest in the country. only 40% have been vaccinated. it's among the lowest, the lowest being of course alabama. now they're overrunning hospitals in your state. talk about what you're seeing on the ground. >> thank you, joy, for having me this evening. i think that that's definitely a stark reminder of the situation that we're in. this pandemic affects every single one of us, but it affects

your neighbors, it affects all of the other folks who are fully vaccinated that are seeking care or need emergency care or need heart surgery or need help for a heart attack or stroke. so this pandemic really has highlighted the fact that we're all connected with our health care, but that our own individual actions can actually help save lives of people that we don't even know down the road. i see it on my day-to-day practice in my urgent care. we're seeing patient volumes that have increased 100%, 150%. it's impacting a lot of us on the front line. we're happy to help other people from other states, but it's definitely turning into something that everybody really needs to have all hands on deck and get vaccinated. >> tim, i hear this all the time and see it all the time on social media saying what is my anti-vax status have to do with you. why should you care if i don't get vaccinated.

if you have a heart attack or stroke and you can't get a hospital bed or can't get into the e.r. or get treated because all of the beds are all filled with covid patients who are unvaccinated, that's why it matters to everyone, because everyone is impacted. and yet you have now this like actual kind of cult of anti-vaxxerism. it's a hard-core ideology. you have people calling them true bloods -- excuse me, pure bloods on tiktok. this is a real thing. calling themselves pure bloods like they're characters in harry potter. that's the trend now, is for people to take pride in being unvaccinated and consider it some sort of resistance. what do we do about that? >> well, for starters, people need to start reading another work besides harry potter. there is other material out there for reading. look, guys, here's the thing, joy, that's really frustrating. it's not only the downstream effects, as he broughtup in idaho, but this kind of victimization culture that you're seeing on the right.

and i think you see it on anti-vax across the board. you know, when you see people send out a tweet like that's joy reid and msnbc guests are looking down on us for being unvaccinated, they're making fun of us. i'm sorry, you are not the victim, goat man, or tucker carlson, or j.d. vance or nicki minaj. you are not the victim. those kids that you showed in the intro who lost their mothers, who didn't do anything, they are the victims and they are being victimized by people like tucker carlson and j.d. vance and others who are spreading misinformation knowingly. they know better. they're spreading misinformation because they're greedy, because they want attention, because they're sociopathic, i don't know. but that is leading to real downstream consequences we're seeing in idaho and other places. and it's sad and it makes me

upset actually. >> i think you're right. jesse, i'm going to go back to you on that. we are seeing a lot of whining from people who don't want to get vaccinated and they try to liken themselves to black people in the 1950s who couldn't eat in a restaurant. that's how far this is going. and trying to drag the civil rights past into their struggle, which what is their struggle again? they feel they have a right to spread a deadly disease. like they might as well have the measles blankets in the 1600s and have a right to throw it on you. if you don't let me do that, then somehow i'm the victim. i wonder if in a hospital culture, are you seeing a shift in people who then get covid? are people having a come to jesus moment in these hospitals or are they going all the way to their deaths believing that the real victimization is that they were being told to get vaccinated? >> that's an excellent point, joy. i would say it depends on when they finding out that they're covid positive or when they're

sent to the hospital. i just had a conversation with a nurse that works in icu, one of them that mentored me when i first started my nursing career. her and her colleagues have nightmares about switching somebody from nasal cannula to a bypass machine. they have nightmares about setting up an ipad having children saying good-bye to their parents and they have to walk out. when we look at victims and the health care workforce that's been battered by this virus for one and a half years, and i think when people realize the consequence for themselves in general when it comes to health care, there always seems to be some clarity in hindsight. but this is really a time that challenges us to have clarity in foresight and be able to look ahead and say i can see the consequence for this and what can i do not just to protect myself, my grandmother, my son, my spouse, my loved one. what can i do to help my

neighbor? and honestly if you're even looking at it selfishly or looking at it for yourself, if you ever need care, if you're in a car accident and we get to that crisis standard where health care services have to be rationed or strategically put out, that could affect the care that you get. so it's a win-win both for you as a patient as well as for the community members that you live with. >> you know, tim, it's a sad point where we have to now sort of appeal to the selfishness of people to get them to do something that is not only simple but free. i think sort of the king of that right now is ron desantis who's built an entire political brand around refusing to stop covid from killing vietnam war era levels in his state. he just won a federal case, an appeal, in which parents of disabled kids were suing saying your mask mandate ban could put our kids at risk of dying.

he said so what. we're not going to let them have mask mandates. your kids have to subject yourself to covid. screw you essentially. let me play a little bit of him. this is the lie that he allowed to happen in a press conference with him about rna. take a listen. >> no one should tell you what to put in your body. i choose who goes into my body. the vaccine changes my rna so for me that's a problem. >> that is not true. then he later pretended he didn't hear that. he just brushes that off but allowed that to go across in a press conference while he was standing right there and didn't correct it because he wants people who think that to vote for him if they stay alive long enough. your thoughts. >> no, that's exactly right. florida went over 50,000 deaths today. they were in the middle of the pack actually in the country as far as deaths per capita and they have skyrocketed. i think they're at 11th now. and all of that rise has happened since we've had a

vaccine. >> yeah. >> and ron desantis -- he tries to say, well, i got vaccinated. and that's true, he did. but people should have freedoms. you know, i want to say a good faith person who is actually pro life who cares about the life of the people in his state, you know, but also does care about protecting freedoms, he would have a press conference that would say something like i'm not going to mandate this in my state but you absolutely need to get vaccinated. here are ten experts telling you why you should get vaccinated. that would be a disagreement i could have with him that's in good faith. instead he's having a press conference with anti-vaxxers spreading crazy stuff and giving them a platform. so that is how he's trying to earn and coddle the anti-vax vote and stay popular in case donald trump has a heart attack or something and he can run in 2024. it's absolutely shameful, it's not pro life. and i think that you can see right through what the strategy is just based on that press

conference. >> yeah. and again, it's going to require the people who listen to him to stay alive long enough to vote for him in a 2024. that's a hell of a big gamble. thank you both very much. still ahead, growing security preparations ahead of saturday's rally in support of alleged insurrectionists. but for now it's looking like the worst of the worst may stay away, believing it's all one big government setup. and legendary documentary filmmaker ken burns and rashida ali join us to discuss their new film on the life of muhammed ali. plus the latest on ongoing saga of nicki minaj's vaccine hesitancy as the white house offers up an olive branch. tonight's absolute worst seem to have forgotten what the word "traitor" actually means. "the reidout" continues after this. "the reidout" continues after this dedicated trade desk pros, and a passionate trader community sharing strategies right on the platform. because we take trading as seriously as you do.

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you are looking at the fencing that was put back up around the u.s. capitol overnight. a protective measure in advance of saturday's justice for j 6 protest which unbelievably is being organized in support of the jailed insurrectionists. while only about 700 people are expected to attend, authorities are taking no chances, especially given reports extremists could commit violence. some of those extremists are suddenly getting cold feet. according to online chatter, they're insisting without evidence that the event is a secret government plot. they largely believe the event to be a setup for a false flag event or honey pot in which they'll be entrapped and coerced to commit violence by federal agents. as laughable as that is, we've heard the same excuse from the violent extremist group the proud boys who are publicly discouraging their members from attending. so there might not be a high turnout despite the fact that donald trump and the sedition caucus have his party have been

stoking this movement for months now. >> the people who breached the capitol on january 6th are being abused. >> the doj is harassing peaceful patriots across the country. >> how come so many people are still in jail over january 6th. >> we have in this city political prisoners held hostage by their own government. >> the reason why they have taken these political prisoners, because they're trying to make an example. >> given a choice between their country and domestic terrorists who tried to overthrow it, they threw in their lot with the terrorists. apparently even terrorist sympathizers have boundaries. as of yesterday, none of them had confirmed their attendance to saturday's rally according to "the new york times." with me now is michelle goldberg and clint watts, former fbi special agent and msnbc national security analyst. michelle, i'll start with you. donald trump released a statement today saying the insurrectionists were being persecuted, but he also publicly called saturday's rally a setup in an interview with the federalist so he's trying to

have it both ways. what do you make of the petering out of what had been this idea that they were going to come and avenge the insurrectionists? >> i think a couple of things. first, i think what looks like is going to be the middling size of this thing shows that in order for these rallies to get really big, it helps to have the support of republican office holders, right? i think it's very possible that the rally of january 6th, if you hadn't had donald trump stoking it, if you hadn't had members of congress speaking there, would also not have been such a mass event. the other thing is that january 6th wasn't just a protest, they were trying to do something. donald trump was trying to do something. he was trying to physically stop the counting of the votes and the certification of the election. and so republicans have much less to gain from sort of throwing in their lot with something that is going to incite a lot of political blowback because, you know, they're not actually trying to accomplish something, they're just trying to -- it's just a

show of solidarity with their base and they can do that by putting out statements. they don't have to speak at this rally. >> yeah, clint, there's been reporting that trump is concerned that if anything goes bad it will be associated with him, that the press will blame it on him. there seems to be some nervousness among elected officials and former elected officials, in the case of trump, that if this thing goes the way january 6th went, it will blow back on them. some of these organizers seem to be feeling the same way. according to the hill, the organizer of this rally has told people don't wear pro-trump clothing. we request that anybody attending our events not wear any clothing or have signs supportive of either trump or biden. what do you make of the fact that they're trying to go incognito? >> it's interesting that they want to be there and don't want to be there. they want to be there and fund raise but don't want any blowback. so the problem with this entire plan with these rallies and

protests is ultimately someone, an extremist usually or core of extremists and militia groups on january 6th takes it to the next level. they do things like breach the capitol and it turns a protest into an insurrection. then who's to blame? well, it is the elected leaders speaking out on the lawn. it was all of those individuals that you showed in the lead-up here, joy, who all are dancing around it. they dance with the devil and say, oh, we've got to free all of our so-called political prisoners. at the same time, i'm not going to be there for you. ultimately what will happen is someone will move forward, someone will strike. we've seen it over the last four to five years. almost every single time we've seen the attack from a white supremacist or militia group, where does it trace back to? a target that was designated or picked by donald trump in some speech, somebody he doesn't like, someone from the gop that is being maligned, that's where the focus is. and so there's no irony about why it happened. we know why it happened. >> yeah.

you know, michelle, one of the things that's been interesting is just how little information we've gotten about january 6th still. we know so little relative to other terrorist attacks where we've been able to get so much information so quickly. so i've been fascinated by the reports that have been coming out, the disciplinary action taken against some officers. one capitol police officer facing disciplinary action told investigators he posed for the photo and claimed that they did it in order to identify him later, exempt the officer used the insurrectionist's phone so i don't know how he would have done that. he never told that to his supervisor, just the fbi. another officer is facing disciplinary action stemming from a conversation the officer had with a friend that he allegedly revealed information about the secure location that he helped evacuate lawmakers to. the friend called the fbi tip line and expressed concerns to

the agent, expressed concerns that he had subscribed to trump's election lie. what do you make of the lack of information that i feel we've been subjected to, you know, no daily press conferences, not a lot of info, but we're getting dribs and drabs about some of the officers that took the wrong side that day? >> i think that a lot more information will come out once the january 6 commission gets up and rolling and starts holding hearings. i think a lot of the -- there's something tantalizing in just their document requests, that they're looking for any sort of information about orders to circumvent -- or people discussing how to circumvent orders from the president. they're looking for people in the government communicating about qanon, about the proud boys. and so i think they're trying to -- they have got all these requests out, they're trying to amass a huge amount of

information and we're going to eventually have a better idea of just how much donald trump knew about what exactly was planned, just how much anxiety and sort of precautions were being taken by those who maybe supported him but didn't want to foment a full-blown insurrection. you're right, now it's fairly opaque. part of the reason it's opaque is we have one political party that still is fully in support of the insurrection, right? so this is -- this is not like an investigation of september 11th, where you have a whole government response to it. this is basically one political party is being forced to investigate another. >> yeah. we're even learning more about mike pence's duplicity on the matter. clint, i wonder if these kind of reports are going to also or should in your view prompt a closer look at the ties, because trump drew real close ties to

law enforcement. that was part of his brand. we knew, he heard little dribs and drabs about the proud boys getting real friendly treatment from police agencies around the country, in philadelphia and other places. do you think that we now need to also have that separate conversation? because we're now for the first time seeing police organize ahead of a march the way they would if black lives matter was coming to washington, d.c. they're now organizing like that for a group of largely white protesters. so do you think we need to have that conversation too about how deeply organizations like the 3%ers and the proud boys have infiltrated police? >> i do. i think part of the phenomena we're seeing is there are many active fbi investigations, there's lots of prosecutions under way. those all open up avenues for collecting evidence. i think some of the committee and the commissions that you hear about, the reason they're delayed is they don't want to get too far out in front of what the fbi is doing because they're going to find so much more evidence and be able to grab so much more evidence that can connect a lot of these things behind the scenes.

we've already seen that with the oath keepers, some of those ties that look like they may connect with the political campaigns or figures in congress. i think that's part of the reason they're slowing that down. that also comes, if you remember, during the russia investigation in the senate. they had to go slow to wait for mueller to push forward because he has more investigative capability. i think it will come to pass. ultimately it's going to be those communications between the white house and congress, between congress and the protesters and the white house and protesters. that's where we'll all come back to at some point. i think the bigger picture, whether it's the department of defense, general milley, the department of justice and the absolute insanity going on there, the fbi probably just trying to stay intact and make it through january 6, we're ultimately going to find that we're lucky that we got through that day i think on january 6. >> indeed. we'll have those investigations so long as the congress remains in the control of the party that actually cares about democracy and opposed to insurrections. if it flips, whole different

scenario. thank you both very much. still ahead, one of the best known filmmakers of the 20th century joins us to talk about his new documentary on one of the best known sports icons, the greatest of all time, muhammed ali. stay right there. ali. stay r ight there with voltaren arthritis pain gel my husband's got his moves back. an alternative to pain pills voltaren is the first full prescription strength gel for powerful arthritis pain relief... voltaren the joy of movement

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down in the basement was joe martin running a little boxing school. >> cassius told the story years later for a minute he forgot about his bike because the sight of this boxing gym, the smell of the leather and the sweat and the excitement, the action of boys in the ring hitting each other, black and white together. >> he reported i'm going to get the guy. joe martin said, well, do you know how to fight? fight? >> and the rest, as they say, is history. that was a scene from the upcoming four-part pbs

documentary series "muhammed ali" featuring one of the most iconic and consequential figures from the 20th century. he became muhammed ali, captivated billions of fans with his power in and out of the ring. this series kicks off sunday and we cannot wait. joining me now one of the directors of the new series, acclaimed documentary filmmaker ken burns and rashida ali, the daughter of muhammed ali. i cannot wait to watch this film. my mom and i watched all of your dad's fights. we're talking about in the '80s, up until he retired. but my mother just absolutely loved him and i loved him too. tell me what will people learn that's new in this documentary that you're excited about? >> first of all, joy, it's good to see you again. thanks for having us on the show.

every time i watch the documentary, i get chills because it's such a beautiful depiction. and i have to say that ken and sarah burns and david mcmann did an incredible job with capturing my dad's very complex history without losing the essence of who he truly was as a person. his goodness, his kindness shine through. and again, when you're watching, a lot of people think they know a lot about my dad. i'll be honest with you, i've seen bits and pieces from the documentary that i didn't even know. so like there were family footage that i've never seen before of me and my mom and my dad and us four kids just hanging out at the house. it brought tears to my eyes because, you know, to see my dad as a boxer, that's one thing. and most people have probably seen all the footage from that part of his life. but as we all know, that's a short part of his life because most of his life he's a civil

rights activist, he's a poet, he's a humanitarian, he's a father, he's a husband, he's a brother, he's a friend. so -- and he combatted parkinson's, so you're seeing all these really aspects of my dad's life unfold in front of your eyes. i want to thank ken burns, sarah, for allowing my dad to control the narrative instead of them controlling it. >> yeah. i have to say, ken burns, i am a huge fan of yours and your film making so i am excited to talk to you today. i want to play a little bit. this is talking about the activist part of what rashida ali just said and the exact of muhammed ali as an activist. >> muhammed ali was an activist who fought to reach us a certain way and to move america in a certain way and to move individuals in a certain way. i'm going to take this path. i believe that i'm right. even if i'm not right, i'm still me. to be able to follow that and to

know that there was going to be an enormous price to pay for that, and to have that be generational, to have that live on beyond you, is extremely valuable. >> ken burns, you've documented so many important figures in american history. in your view, what is most important about muhammed ali? >> you can't contain him. he's one of the biggest, most wonderful human beings i've ever gotten to know. he's larger than life. his flaws are big, his strengths are big. this is a story about freedom, which is incredibly hard to achieve if you're a black person in the united states on this continent any time since 1619 on. it's about courage, not just inside the ring. this is a very difficult sport to play. but outside of the ring and the stance he took, particularly about vietnam but in other places as rashida alluded to with regard to parkinson's and that multi-decade struggle that he had there, but yet his reach

was getting further. and it is about the four-letter word that the fcc allows you and me to say, joy, but we have a hard time really talking about, which is love. this guy touches every single aspect of the late 20th century, from the role of sports, the role of black athletes, to ideas of black masculinity and manhood to civil rights to politics to faith to war to sex. all of those things are contained and they're all things that are happening today. so when we cutaway from howard bryant there at the end, we're moving to a young woman marching in protest across the brooklyn bridge, we don't deliberately show you what the protest is. but all she thinks she needs to come to that protest is a simple black t-shirt with white letters with two words that say muhammed ali. it means freedom, it means courage, it means love. >> this is muhammed ali with malcolm x in ghana. >> in the capital of ghana,

thousands gathered at the airport to catch a glimpse of the world's new heavyweight champion. outside his hotel, ali heard a familiar voice. brother muhammed, called malcolm x, who was on his own overseas tour. he greeted ali enthusiastically. i still love you, he told the boxer. you left the honorable elijah muhammed, ali said. that was the wrong thing to do. there was little else to say. malcolm walked away. >> that is so awesome. so my uncle bennett was at the rumble in the jungle at the congo and has told me so many great stories about the feeling that muhammed ali produced internationally for the diaspora. what do you think is his great legacy beyond boxing? >> well, that's tough, joy. i think his biggest accomplishment was his ability

to unapologetically and sincerely to devote his entire life to his faith and to follow it to the end of time. and with that became his love for people. and serving others is what he did with his life in and out of the ring. all he thought about and talked about was how he was going to free his people and to make people feel special, and he did that. >> and i have one selfish question for you, ken burns. how do you choose the projects that you decide to commit to? because you do such amazing work. how do you pick the next thing? >> you know, in some ways, joy, the fast glib response is to say they pick us. we're just interested in good stories. sarah burns, my oldest daughter, her husband and dave mcmann and i have been working on this for years and years and years. and we're with pbs which allows

the deep dive to discover the footage that even rashida doesn't know of her daddy talking to her. this is an amazing person that transcends the particular sport that he was involved in and gave us a kind of method of dealing with the problems, you know. this is -- we're in the middle of the struggle still and he's a good guide post to all of that. you love him, warts and all. and it's to me -- i can't think of a more satisfying experience that we've had as filmmakers than trying to wrestle this complex story to the ground. of course people like rashida who are in the film and she carries -- particularly she carries the spirit of her father everywhere, give her a chance to understand this amazing american. if i were given the chance to go to dinner with a couple of people that i've gotten to know over the almost 50 years that i've been doing this, it would be louis armstrong and muhammed ali. abraham lincoln a distant third.

but to have louis armstrong and to have muhammed ali would just be the gift of all gifts. and they are as american as anything. what he did was as a black man and he did not forget where he came from. he achieved freedom, which is tough, but he didn't forget to pull everyone else along. everyone around the world -- anybody who felt the boot of the man felt that he was speaking for them, you know. when he goes and rashida and i can do this in unison. i've had 180 amateur fights, 22 professional fights and i'm pretty as a girl. >> pretty as a girl. >> black is beautiful and people responded to that. and he changed the whole dynamic. everything is sort of before ali and after ali. >> i am so excited to see this film. first of all, i want to come to that fictional dinner. if that ever happens, i'm going to bogart that dinner.

rashida, every rashida i know, and i work for one, i love them all. that's just a name for amazing women. >> thank you. >> ken burns, i'm a fan. rashida ali, i'm a fan. "muhammad ali" is this sunday on pbs. the misinformation struggle continues as many people, selects and government officials weigh in on rapper nicki minaj and her unfortunate cousin's friend. we'll be right back. ate cousin's friend we'll be right back. this is the sound of an asthma attack... that doesn't happen. this is the sound of better breathing. fasenra is a different kind of asthma medication. it's not a steroid or inhaler. fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. it's one maintenance dose every 8 weeks. it helps prevent asthma attacks, improve breathing, and lower use of oral steroids. nearly 7 out of 10 adults with asthma may have elevated eosinophils. fasenra is designed to target and remove them.

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there about the vaccine for her tens of millions of followers to see. she said she wouldn't get vaccinated until she did her research and then added in a second tweet that her cousin's friend in trinidad and tobago became impotent and got swollen cajones causing his wedding to be cancelled because of what they termed a flat tire. we don't know about the wedding information but the core of the misinformation and the danger that people might believe it and choose not to get vaccinated against covid became so serious, the actual health minister of trinidad and tobago felt that he needed to address it. >> it is as far as we know at this point in time, there has been no such reported either side effect or adverse event. and what was sad about this is that it wasted our time yesterday trying to track down, because we take all these claims seriously.

>> that sounds like all my uncles. even boris johnson got involved taking the opportunity to tell people to ignore the incorrect info and please get vaxxed. in what is unfortunately down know as ball gate, ms. minaj kept on tweeting, claiming the media, yours truly included, misinterpreted what she said. at one point she said that she had been invited to the white house. the white house denied that, saying they just offered to have her talk to a doctor so she could have accurate information about the vaccines. then she claimed that he was in twitter jail, which twitter denied. and in fairness, she later in later tweets did add that she likely would get vaccinated, after doing her research, because she, like millions of people, would have to in order to work. that is entirely accurate and legitimate. and in fact, it's why and how mandates work. but the worst part of all this honestly is not even the personal attacks. the worst part is who is enjoying this so much.

people like white nationalist curious victor orban enthusiast and no friend of hip-hop or nonwhite people, period, tuckums carlson. he praises her for, quote, enraging the political class. when people responded that she might not want to be associated with a white nationalist, she gave in to the right's favorite talking point that somehow celebrities are not allowed to agree with republicans. she also tweeted you know how many u.s. presidents were white supremacists? yes, we do, a whole lot of them. what people like tuckems and other right-wing bomb throwers want is not nicki minaj to have free speech, what they want is a vehicle to drag as many of her fans into their anti-vax camp as they can. they need and crave authentic members of the culture, hip-hop culture. let's just be clear. they look down on that culture and hate that culture and would never, ever, ever support

someone like nicki minaj other than to pull her onto their team. case in point, laura ingraham, once criticized president obama for just meeting with ms. minaj citing the profanity in her lyrics, but they need her right now. let's not forget the freakout the right had over the lyrics by cardy b. or little nas x for giving the devil a lap dance in the music video. the right has no use for people in the culture until they're useful for the purposes of hurting people in the culture. when we come back, michael eric dyson will join me to discuss all of this. me to di scs us all of this. r copd. ♪ birds flyin' high you know how i feel ♪ ♪ breeze drifting on by you know how i feel ♪ [man: coughing] ♪ it's a new dawn, it's a new day... ♪ no matter how you got copd it's time to make a stand. ♪ ...and i'm feelin' good ♪ start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in

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available november 2nd. i'm going to let you talk because this has been such a weird traumatic experience i think for a lot of people watching this unfold, and i'm curious to get your take on this sort of misinformation like nightmare and the right's use of it for their own purposes. >> yes, well, thank you, joy, so much. you know, i love and adore joy reid. the nicky minaj of black female journalists because i love and appreciate her. and the third black woman who came up with the moderna vaccine. so three brilliant black women have in many ways led us on various paths of enlightenment. nikki minaj is right to be skeptical. science by itself short of ethical insight and moral imperatives is not great. she's right about that.

she's also right about the fact we don't have universal health care. the problem of course is when it comes to vaccine hesitancy we understand millions of black people who are are hesitant given the kind of racist production of scientific discourse in america. but now we've got a black woman leading the way with moderna, black people talking about the necessity of this vaccine. and i think after doing her research i agree with nikki minaj do your research, but after we do the research we find this vaccine has been especially helpful, moderna, pfizer and johnson & johnson have worked to protect lives. and we know a disproportionate number of african-american and latin-american not vaccinated are vulnerable to death. yes, do your research, your scientific inquiry. at the end of the day find out with tuskegee they were

withholding medicine from us. with moderna and pfizer and johnson & johnson they're trying to give us a vaccine that can help and protect us. and i think black people must use their common sense and their wits and their wisdom to understand we are in the midst of a pandemic. and we know the right-wing tucker carlson don't give a flying flip about nikki minaj. >> at all. >> as you rightly said they don't care about hip hop and what we do in our culture at all. at the same time we must not be used and abused by right-wing fanatics who are seeking to deploy the genius of blackness to undercut the lives of ordinary black citizens in this country, that's why i stand with you all who support the right approach to this, taking seriously science and rationality in the service of morality and in this case the service of black survival. >> right. we -- this got to the point where national action network weighed in on it today because this has become an unnecessary

sort of side fight. but the real fight is, you know, i was at melbus, the wonderful melbus in new york helping her do a pro-vaccination and the folks from harlem hospital came there. and i spoke with the then ceo of harlem hospital who said when they first rolled out the vaccine the line outside of harlem hospital had almost no black people from it. there were people coming from affluent communities all over new york to line up and get the vaccine. and she said think about this for a second. if the vaccine was going to kill crow, why are those affluent people coming here and not our people? the local people, the local folks in harlem were not coming. people were jumping in front of them in line and doing whatever they had to do and standing in line to get it. think about it. why are they doing that if the vaccine is going to kill us. we have people loudly and proudly saying i'm never going to take the shot and making that a cultural thing, but they also probably don't have health care. so if get covid they're probably not going to make it.

wealthy people are going to make it. they're not going to make it. >> that's absolutely right and such an important point to make. the reality is the masses of black and brown and poor white people for that matter in this country will not serviced by a health care industry or pharmaceutical industry that has no ultimately productive or edifying intensions for the average person. and if you go out there playing risk, playing, you know, in one sense a kind of russian revolver game with your life, the russian roulette, the ultimate price may be your life. you know, the chicken and the egg are going down the street discussing what we're going to get for breakfast. the chicken said i'm going to give up an egg. the pig got to give up his behind in order to contribute to the breakfast. we are the pigs in this case. the test is whether we're willing to sacrifice our ordinary lives for theories and conspiracy as as opposed to what's going on with real science. again i applaud nikki minaj for

hesitancy and saying study. but let's conclude black people do better when we are vaccinated. let's get vaccinated and have this conversation. nikki miknowledge says when i go out on tour i'm going to get vaccinated. >> that's right. you're going to have to. listen, i was hesitant. when donald trump was out there controlling the cdc and controlling the fda and manipulating them and making them put out falsehoods anybody rational was hesitant. but the reality is now what i really fear is masses -- more masses of people dying. 666,000 people have died and disproportionally they look like you and me, michael. and what scares me is that people are creating a cultural imperative to set themselves up for death when the people pushing them to do it like tuckms are vaccinated and saif and even if they got covid are going to get all the monoclonal antibodies. they could give a damn if nikki

minaj gets covid and dies. they don't care about us. >> to paraphrase my man spike lee, do the right thing, and you didn't bring me no fried chicken from melbus? >> i'm going to correct that the next time i'm in new york city. that is tonight's reid out. all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> the governors of florida and texas are doing everything they can to undermine the lifesaving requirements i proposes. >> the vaccine push continues from the white house and so does the resistance. >> we will never comply -- never, ever, ever. >> tonight the senate candidate offering religious exemptions to anti-vax supporters and the secretary of education miguel car dona on fighting the virus in schools across america. then why the recall disaster for republicans couldpe