next week, the united nations general assembly where joe biden will go as president for the first time. thank you for getting up way too early with us all this week. "morning joe" starts now. >> this week in covid history, it is mid-september 2020 and the president's brain is busy. >> football's boring as hell. they gave him a big shot shot in the ass. he spent $2 million on [ bleep ]. i love the hispanics. >> speaking of hispanics, covid is making a comeback. but president sees the gap fall. >> the blue states had tremendous death rates. if you take the blue states out, we're at a level that i don't think anybody in the world would be at. >> good-bye to the blues. time for some good news. >> vaccines are already in the final stage. >> what's stopping them? >> joe biden's anti-vaccine theories are putting a lot of lives at risk. it is part of their war to try

and discredit the vaccine. >> can it be true? let's go to the tape. >> let me be clear. i don't trust vaccines. i don't trust scientists. but i do trust donald trump. >> clear as day. what else does this sinister anti-vaxxer have planned? >> democrats and joe biden have -- they intend to challenge this election, to fight the legitimacy of the election. >> these dastardly democrats must be stopped! oh, well. >> ruth bader ginsburg has died. >> this just in, there is no god. this has been this week in covid history. god. this has been this week in covid history. >> put together by our friends at "jimmy kimmel live." welcome to "morning joe." joe and mika are off this morning. they'll be back next week. with us we got white house reporter for the associated press jonathan lambier and washington editor at ozzy media

catty kay. we're following a number of developing stories this morning including the question of whether people need covid-19 booster shots. an fda advisory panel meets today to determine whether a third dose of the pfizer vaccine is safe or even necessary for everyone. plus, the new deal ten the united states and australia over nuclear powered submarines was meant to reinforce alliances, but it has made france furious. we'll tell you the move that country has made now in response. and more reporting from the "wall street journal," the inner workings of facebook. today's investigation details how one internal investigator flagged to higher ups that mexican drug cartels were using the website to recruit, train and pay hit men. what internal documents show about the company's response to that. a lot to get to. we begin with law enforcement on high alert. ahead of tomorrow's far right rally, in support of the january 6th insurrectionists.

fencing has been put up around the u.s. capitol building, and around the perimeter of the supreme court. capitol police are preparing extra security ahead of the justice for j6 rally. as for the national guard's assistance as well, should the need arise. a dhs official said earlier this week the event is expected to draw about 700 people. meanwhile, cnn obtained a copy of a briefing from the department of homeland security that was shared with state and local authorities, which reads in part, we are aware of a small number of recent online threats of violence, referencing the planned rally, including online discussions encouraging violence the day before the rally. nbc news has not yet confirmed that reporting. here is what house speaker nancy pelosi had to say about tomorrow's rally. >> they're going to come saturday again, they have their plans to come, everybody will be ready, more ready for them. i'm so proud of our capitol

police and other law enforcement who saved our lives. it was all that close, they saved our lives. but i, you any, i'm the speaker, i have threats all the time, but i'm not afraid for myself, but i was afraid for my other members and for the staff and for the workers in the capitol. they were traumatized by this assault on the capitol of the united states. a temple of democracy for the world. >> speaker pelosi in england yesterday. let's bring in senior reporter for nbc news, brandy zadrasi. good to see you. you've been keeping tags online forums where these groups when planned and plotted january 6th also organized. what are you seeing this week, what are you seeing this morning in terms of tomorrow's planned rally? >> well, it is some good news, you know. we're not seeing any signs that we might usually see before a large national scale political rally, maga rally, extremist

rally. we're seeing basically underwhelming posts, really limited to people nearby. people who are talking about this rally that you would usually find in the circle, proud boys, qanon, anti-vaxxers, they're saying to stay away. there is a conspiracy theory this is a honey pot or some sort of plot by the feds to entrap people to commit crimes. there is really barely a whimper out there for the real target audience. i talked to jared holt and he's just saying really the loll energy is already preoccupied with community issues like in portland or anti-mask vaccine rallies. people are too busy. it is important to note that unlike the january 6th capitol attack where it was a bunch of different factions all sort of coming together under the umbrella of voter fraud, stolen election conspiracy theory and really asked to be there by president trump, no one is really doing this.

this event is actually just planned by this guy, his name is matt brainard, he works for this organization he founded called look ahead america. and, you know, he's a former trump campaign operative. he's sort of a c list player who jumps from maga cause to maga cause. he raised $650,000 last year to investigate the stolen election. so this is a money-making enterprise and it is important to remember that. and all of this media attention really helps him to do just that. >> so, brandy, former president donald trump echoed yesterday that conspiracy theory that you just mentioned about this rally being a honey pot so the feds could arrest a bunch of people. he also is condemning the criminal prosecution of hundreds of his supporters who took part in the january 6th attack on the capitol. in a statement yesterday, trump wrote our hearts and minds are with the people being persecuted so unfairly, relating to the january 6th protests, concerning the rigged presidential election. in addition to everything else, it is proven conclusively we are

two tiered system of justice. in the end, however, he wrote, justice will prevail. didn't specifically mention tomorrow's far right rally in the statement, but as we said, in an interview with the federalists, he described the rally as a setup. said the media would use it as an excuse to bash republicans. so what is the next plan here, brandy? you monitor this stuff so quickly. obviously capitol police, washington is much better prepared tomorrow than they were on january 6th. and that might deter some of the people from coming here. but these groups and these people, the proud boys, the oath keepers, everyone you mentioned aren't going anywhere. what inspires them right now? what drives them? >> it is really a culture war that is happening right now. there is no national election right now. we have the midterms to look forward to, of course. but we're a culture war is being waged right now. we're seeing it in l.a. with anti-trans protests. we're seeing it in front of

hospitals. children's hospitals. with people protesting against the vaccine, we're seeing it at school boards with proud boys and extremists, people without children who are coming to these school boards, because it is a flashpoint for the current cultural war right now against so-called critical race theory. we are seeing these groups. the fact there is a, you know, gate around the capitol right now is a sad, you know, reality of the environment that we live in, where we have to be vigilant. >> hey, brandy, it is jonathan. we enjoyed a peek there from your visitor on your shot a second ago. switching to a more serious matter. we of course have known there has been some dates, that some on the far right have been circling for a while, january 6th the biggest, weeks in advance. this one here, this rally even if it does seem like it might be fizzling out here in d.c., but there has been weeks of hype around that. we had various qanon theories, certain days where donald trump would become president again. is there anything on the horizon

once we clear tomorrow and hopefully clear it without any violence, is there other dates on the horizon that law enforcement is concerned about that have taken hold in the conspiracy theory land, where that fear could lead to violence? >> there is not a -- i have a friend. apologies. there is no particular date that we're looking for necessarily, but you have -- you get the gist of it. we're always moving the goal posts here, right? so right now there is not a specific date that we're looking to. but get back to me in a week and i'm sure there will be something, some conspiracy theory that, you know, some wildlands on the internet are looking towards the return of their savior, their messiah, donald trump. >> brandy, we'll let you go. something is looking for their froot loops but you did not miss a beat. mommy is talking about the proud boys. brandy, thanks so much. we always appreciate your reporting. if you look at this, maybe this does fizzle tomorrow, obviously

the police, law enforcement not taking anything for granted. they put up the fence, they don't want to be caught off guard as they were on january 6th. but importantly, donald trump is coming out and perpetuating and giving new life and new energy to everything that drives these groups that had planned to come to washington tomorrow. saying things like, you know, they're being persecuted, the people from january 6th are being persecuted unfairly, saying they're the real victims on january 6th and indulging this conspiracy theory that tomorrow's rally is a honey pot, as long as he's out there publicly saying things, this movement has life. >> yeah. first off, cue to brandy, that's not easy to do and she handled it like a real pro. >> she always does. >> she always does. even if you put rigged presidential election all in caps, it was still not a rigged presidential election, how many times he wants to use that word rigged, it doesn't change the facts. a lot of americans may say there is a two tier system of justice.

they don't mean what the president means when it comes to that. the stunning silence from republican members in terms of their attendance and what their plans are for saturday and how they are all distancing themselves as fast as possible from this, but not really wanting to talk about it, i think it speaks to their dilemma. on the one hand, they can't afford to totally alienate the base that still thinks and trump supporters who still think that the people who are here on january 6th were righteous in some way or justified in some way, some kind of -- they still see them as sort of heroic, why they planned this rally in the first place for saturday. they don't want to alienate those folks, but on the other hand, they realize that every time they're talking about january 6th, we're politically for democrats, republicans would much rather be focused on joe biden, on the problems in the administration, on afghanistan, budget issues, on big spending, on socialism, that kind of

thing. they don't want to be focused on january 6th. it is no surprise that republicans are kind of scampering away from this one. it is tricky for them to come out, outright and condemn it when you have donald trump dropping a statement the day before saying, effectively, he supports the righteousness of the people who are doing this. >> again, donald trump coming out on the side of the people who stormed the u.s. capitol, beat police officers in an effort to overturn a presidential election. we'll come back to the story in a moment. meanwhile, an fda advisory committee will meet today to vote on whether covid vaccine booster shots are necessary. some members of the agency support a third dose of pfizer's vaccine for people 16 and older, while others oppose that idea. wednesday the fda posted much of the evidence. its advisory panel will consider but did not take a clear stance for or against boosters. the cdc has scheduled a meeting of its own advisers on the issue for next week. let's bring in physician and fellow at the brookings

institution dr. kavita patel, former obama white house health policy director and msnbc medical contributor. dr. patel, good to see you this morning. there has been this conversation, this week, we had dr. fauci on the show a couple of days ago, coming out in support of boosters. we heard both pfizer and moderna say while the vaccines are effective, they do wain after a period of time, boosters probably are necessary. so what will this advisory committee, this panel be weighing today. >> yeah, look, willie there is one question that already has been posted. the only question to the advisory committee today ahead of the fda meeting and it states do you believe the data is sufficient from pfizer to approve for a booster vaccine ages 16 and up? yes or no? that tells you everything you need to know. it points to the fact that pfizer submitted an application for booster 16 and up, there is a lot of controversy about whether 16 to 60-year-olds really need the booster, does the data support it? that's not what's ahead of the fda, they have it take action on

what the manufacturer requested. what we're going to see, willy, is a spirited conversation about whether the israeli data presented today is tough. israel has proved boosters for 12 and up. they rolled it out obviously initially in healthcare workers, front line workers and 60 and above. but are now doing it country wide. and the data, frankly, even my review of the data not sure i see a data there for 12 to 19, but that's what one country's approach was. ours, however, i think many americans expected something september 20th, clearly just by the timeline you pointed out, advisory committee today, fda action to follow, then the cdc still needs to make recommendations. they're meeting next wednesday and thursday. not likely we'll see americans getting boosters before maybe the end of next week. >> so it does raise this question that others had had discussed which is even if it is safe, should we be given a third

shot to people here in the united states. the argument has been there are so many people in the world who need these doses that we could provide them with doses and not take a third for ourselves. dr. fauci sort of suggested that was a false choice. dr. gottlieb said yesterday, scott gottlieb, it was a false choice, there was enough vaccine to go around. what is your view on that question? there is the question of safety, but also i guess an ethical question of whether we ought to be taking boosters. >> yeah, willie, i'll even add to that. this is something dr. fauci and gottlieb alluded to in the past. it is also a question of those of us who are administering vaccines and talking to patients, where do we direct our focus. i still want to focus on people who are not vaccinated. i also need to focus on finding patients who might need boosters so that most important thing i fall on the line of let's look at the data. the data is clear that if you are 60 and above, there is an incredible high risk, not just a breakthrough infections and

death, but an incredible risk then to potentially allow the virus to spread even farther. so 60 and above, and others could still get infected and we could see the virus spreading. the question that even i struggle with is what does 40 to 59 look like and what data do we need to recommend, for example, 16 to 40 where immunity does decrease, but it still seems to be pretty strong and i haven't seen data that suggests that they're ending up in the hospital at higher rates. remember, of course, willie, a bulk of those people really received the vaccine from april and later. so we're only still seeing some of those effects and their immunity is pretty strong. i think that the global controversy will enter into the cdc's conversation, today's fda conversation will be around whether the data is sufficient. i think the american public,

let's say they're confused because they're seeing so many questions being thrown at it and people just want a clear answer, yes or no. think the answer is yes for age groups, probably not for every single american. but the unfortunately we're going to probably draw a bright line and recommend it, looks like we'll likely recommend it for 16 and above based on the application. i think that's where the interesting conversations will occur today. >> yeah. doctor, it is hard to understand why it is so confusing. i know we're getting different data from the uk, different data from israel. but i think that's part of the reason that americans are confused. one question that i had amidst all of that confusion is whether getting a booster would be likely to diminish the chances that we then get a new strain of the virus that is able to work around the vaccine. so it would preemptively getting boosters for people help us ward

off that kind of nightmare scenario where a variant emerges that the vaccines don't work against. >> yeah, great question, that's something that a number of scientists would like to see actually played out more formally in a clinical trial. the trials were not set up to did that. but interestingly enough, the israeli data has one slide that is very provocative. it suggests a little of what you're saying, with the introduction of the booster shot, the actual reproductive number, the rnaut decreased. it looks to me like an association, but it is very interesting. points to what you're saying. and it is going to be a lively discussion, not just today but going forward. having said that, there is not really sufficient evidence to suggest that, yes, given a booster at certain time frames could preemptively prevent x, y and z, but this is also new. delta variant, i don't want to say it snuck up on us. that's not true. but we certainly could not have

forecast the effect it would have had and the time frame it did, so to your point, does this suggest that we just need a certain level of immunity on all people who are vaccinated? i would say it suggests rather that we just need a lot more people vaccinated, even with those initial doses. not necessarily with boosters. and that's, i think, where the global equity issue comes into play and it is a very valid point. i would rather see as many people get the first doses, especially of our highly effective vaccine in the united states, and i sacrificed the time to get boosters if that meant we can get more people vaccinated. >> as the fda panel has that discussion about boosters today, dr. patel, let's talk bigger picture about where we are right now. most kids are back in school, all kids are back in school at this point, have been for a couple of weeks. most kids back for much longer than that right now. we're seeing the introduction of the virus into schools and we're seeing it in a lot of these southern states, especially with low vaccination rates.

what is your sense of where we are with the delta variant and where this may be headed as we move into the colder months here? >> yeah, so one thing that many of us have really thought about the fall was that this would be very regional. delta changed that, of course. what we are seeing at this point today is that it is very regional now. we are seeing seven day national case rate and numbers of deaths declining. not at the speed i would like to see, but certainly declining. however, go to parts of the country, idaho, tennessee, west virginia, they're on fire. idaho is literally exporting patients. they're calling hospitals and neighboring states desperate to transfer people because they don't have enough beds or sufficient care. so the state of play really is one that is still continues to worry me. it is very dire. all we are is that much more prepared for the next variant to katty's point, we're not that much more prepared. what we are watching carefully

are pediatric cases. they continue to hold at very alarming number about one in four, one in five new cases are children. but we don't see those precipitous changes where we're seeing more deaths than we would expect, more hospitalizations than we would expect. but i would argue we shouldn't accept any hospitalization of a child if we can prevent it. so even though we are getting it better at vaccinating the united states, the bar is set higher. we need to see -- france has now 81% of the population eligible vaccinated with at least one or two doses. we need to get to at least those numbers to prevent the next delta or the strain that we don't even know that we have identified yet that could escape immunity. the kids are in this vulnerable period now, but some of the signs we have seen of the mitigation measures taken by many states, including indoor masks, have actually been working so far, fingers crossed. watching the numbers closely. >> as we wait for the vaccine for younger kids which is still

several months out on the horizon. dr. kavita patel, thank you, great to see you this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," china is angry at the new deal between the united states and australia over nuclear powered submarines. and so is the american ally france. richard haase joins us with his take on growing tensions and what they might mean. plus, president biden's national security team is on defense this morning after new reporting that the president rejected advice to stay in afghanistan longer. "morning joe" is coming right back. n longer "morning joe" is coming right back

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the white house is attempting to stem some of the outrage from french officials over being left out of a new partnership between the united states, the uk and australia. >> i would first say we value our relationship and our partnership with france on a variety of issues facing the global community. we don't see this from our end as a regional divide. we see this as areas and security issues that we want to take on together. >> we cooperate incredibly closely with france on many shared priorities, indo pacific but beyond around the world. we're going to continue to do so. we place fundamental value on that relationship, on that partnership and we will carry it forward in the days ahead. >> the deal which the french foreign minister described as a, quote, knife in the back, will

see the united states provide australia with nuclear powered submarine technology. france had been working to secure a similar multibillion dollar deal with australia, but that agreement had been tied up in court since 2016. french officials also are accusing the white house of hiding information from diplomats who suspected a deal was in the works. the last minute revelation of the security partnership infuriated french officials in washington who canceled a gala at their embassy to protest the sudden policy decision. the event was meant to celebrate the french navy's aid in america's fight for independence in 1781. joining us now, president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. we can put the gala to the side, no cocktail tonight at the embassy. let's talk about why our french allies are so upset about this. they had a massive lucrative deal for them, they hoped in place with australia, they got pulled off the table. what else is going on here?

>> it is interesting, one of those little things that says lots of big things. the french are -- it is part of a larger european unhappiness and we disagreed on afghanistan, we disagree at times on russia, european energy dependence, on china, the united states also wants a tougher policy towards china, the europeans are more interested in commercial ties. so the french are cranky, understandably so, they lost this big submarine deal. and what -- on the other side, the british who are part of this wanted to show that they have a role in the world, even though they left the eu, australia needs help in standing up china, china has been very angry and sanctioning australia ever since australia called for a serious investigation into the origins of covid-19. and the biden administration not only wants a tough -- here on china, wants to show after afghanistan countries like australia still want to get close to us. so basically the french lost

out. almost a game of diplomatic musical chairs. >> jonathan, you asked that question of general jen psaki y in the briefing room. the insult from the french foreign minister is that this move by joe biden and the white house was utterly trumpian. they said it wreaked of the last administration. >> yeah, and that is something that is certainly close for president biden. jen psaki dismissed it yesterday, said the president wasn't giving it that much thought. we know he went to europe a couple of months ago, i went on that trip, he was reassuring european allies. the united states was back, we were reliable, that the chaos and uncertainty of the four years of donald trump's administration gone. and now we're seeing some anger from the european allies about this and as richard said also, of course, about the decision in afghanistan. but, richard, i want to ask you, we just went over how this played in paris and i'm sorry you won't have plans anymore at that gala, but let's talk about

how it is being received in beijing. they said they used the phrase cold war mentality when they described this move by the u.s., uk and australia. how does this -- where does this leave relations now with beijing. and especially it comes at a time when president biden has been looking to get a summit with president xi, and the chinese scene, reluctant to make that happen. we don't think president xi is going to the g-20 next month. >> u.s. relations with china are bad and have been deteriorating for some years now. we had the emergence of this new four-part group, the united states, india, japan, and australia. now you got this one, this new three party group. it is part of the administration. there has been continuity between the trump and biden administration taking a diplomatic and defense posture vis-a-vis china. and coming at a time when china is much more assertive, it violated its commitments in hong kong.

it has become more repressive at home. it is not changed, it is the economic behaviors on its part, the subsidies, the stealing of intellectual property that give people heartburn. it makes all of its claims in the south china sea. it has been challenging taiwan. so what we have again is on both sides, we see a continued deterioration, and the chinese they rebuffed a call from the president, to have some kind of a summit. they're basically holding it out as a reward. not something i expect we're going to play into. this is as bad as the u.s. chinese relationship has probably been since its modern launch. this is a relationship now that doesn't have a rational much, that doesn't have a bottom, and these recent events are just adding to this negative momentum. >> so, richard, help me unpack something here in part from the rather glib interpretation that no nose was put out of joint in london if paris is unhappy and

britain perhaps quite happy to see the french lose out here. how much does it matter if european allies are starting to say that they can't rely on the united states to keep them informed about major policies, security decisions in the way they would like to be, whether it is waving patents on the covid vaccine, which was sprung on the europeans by surprise, whether it was the afghan withdrawal, where europeanes say they weren't consulted and here again the french saying they found out about this in the press. i guess the question is if the united states is trying to rally in the way that trump never managed to, if the biden administration is trying to rally a united front against threats like china or russia for that matter, does it have a real life implication if europeans and i'm starting to hear it from senior diplomats here, if europeans are saying, there is an element in which the biden administration is behaving like the trump administration, yes, they went to europe and said we're back, we're with you, but they don't really do anything about it, they don't consult us

and we're kind of annoyed with the biden administration. does it have a real impact had it comes to dealing with global threats? >> first of all, they're right to draw that conclusion. the continuity between the foreign policy of the with presidents drops away. the continuity is actually extensive across the board. so i think the europeans are reaching that position. they're not going to become much more militarily independent because they're not going to spend the money to do that. i think the more likely thing they'll start doing their own thing, and in particular with china and russia. what i think you'll see them do is become a little bit more independent, already becoming much more dependent on russia and natural gas, they'll be less willing to participate with the united states and denying certain technologies to china. so you'll see much less of a global partnership between the united states and europe, dealing with the other two major powers. i think that's most likely trend

that we're seeing here, which will weaken us and weaken then and play at the chinese and russian hand. >> stay with us. want to talk to you about more reporting from the new book from bob woodward and robert costa, taking us behind the scenes of president biden's decision to end america's role in afghanistan. much more ahead on "morning joe." n afghanistan. much more ahead on "morning joe. you booked a cozy vrbo mountain cabin. [laughs] with a kitchen where everyone can chef. [laughs] a family room where you can let your hair down. and a backyard that is a tree-lined living room. but the thing they'll remember forever? watching the game together once again. ♪♪ the time for getting back together is now. ♪♪ find it on vrbo.

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i just couldn't have asked for a better experience. don't cancel or let your policy lapse without finding out what it's worth. visit coventrydirect.com to find out if your policy qualifies. or call the number on your screen. about a month now after the fall of kabul to the taliban, there is new reporting from bob woodward and robert costa in the new book that president biden rejected advice from top defense officials to maintain a military presence in afghanistan. nbc news white house correspondent kelly o'donnell has the details. >> reporter: the president's national security team on defense, pressed to explain new claims that president biden

rejected advice to keep troops in afghanistan longer. according to an upcoming book by bob woodward and robert costa. >> i won't confirm or deny what is in the book. >> reporter: the authors write that last march, secretary of state antony blinken called from brussels to say here's what i'm hearing, mr. president, a blast in quadraphonic sound. >> according to the book -- >> reporter: blinken questioned by andrea mitchell. >> views that not only did we listen to very carefully, but we shared directly with president biden and they factored into our thinking and into the decisions he made. >> reporter: the president has come under a fierce criticism, for a chaotic withdrawal that includes the deaths of 13 u.s. service members. >> there is nothing low grade or low cost about any war. >> reporter: the book intends defense secretary austin urged president biden to extend the

mission with u.s. troops, in order to buy time for negotiations with an exit plan in three or four stages. >> we followed a rigorous process, the president made his decision. >> kelly o'donnell reporting for us there. richard, this isn't necessarily a total revelation, we heard over the last month or so that there were some people in the pentagon, up high, up the chain, actually, who thought we should leave the small footprint in afghanistan 2500, 3,000 troops there, indefinitely. what do you make of the new revelation, the new information we got from this book? >> as you say, i think it basically reinforces what we already thought. most of the national security team thought that what we -- what the president began with, several thousand american troops, many times that number of contractors, 8,000 or so allied troops, that was a formula that would not -- would not bring peace, would not win the war, but it would avert what

we subsequently have seen. that was put forward to them. what this also shows is this is a decision made from the top down. this is not one of those that boiled up from bureaucracy. the fundamental decision to leave was a decision made by the president, he imposed it on the bureaucracy and -- why is was so messy. that's a different thing. the implementation is what followed on from the fundamental decision to leave. and my guess is the president and everyone around him here was caught unprepared. they had assumption how long the government would stay in power, and so forth, this is always the case in foreign policy, assumptions can be a dangerous thing. we didn't seem to have a plan b to put it mildly. when those assumptions unraveled. >> the decision to leave afghanistan was one that president biden had had signaled throughout his campaign. and in the early days as president and one that is supported by a majority of the american people.

let's stay in afghanistan for the amazing story of an all girls robotics team from that country that first took the world by storm in 2017, arriving in washington for an international competition after facing extraordinary odds to gain entry into the united states. having a package of robot parts delayed due to concerns about terrorism, for example. they became known as the afghan dreamers, and with most of the team born after the taliban, initially were ousted from power, they symbolized a new afghanistan. comprised of 25 girls between the ages of 12 and 18, they spent much of the pandemic creating ventilators from car parts. but with the return now of the taliban, the all girl robotics team faced turmoil. and had it flee their homeland, evacuating to qatar. the parent organization, the digital citizen fund, worked for days against the backdrop of great uncertainty to organize safe passage for team members still in the country.

joining us now, co-founder of the afghan dreamers, roya mahmoud. thank you for being with us this morning. what a wonderful story. tell us, first of all, about the girls, where they are, if you can, their safety and what happens next here. >> thank you for having me here. as you know, part of our teams right now are in doha. and some of our alumni are in mexico. but still thousands of our students still in afghanistan. >> and is it fair to say they are safe, roya? >> the girls in doha and mexico, yes, they are safe, they are happy, they can continue to work and they can continue their education thanks to the governments of qatar because they give them scholarship they can continue their high school and as well the girls are now currently preparing for the challenge, to continue competing and fighting for the rights for

education for everyone. >> and they are absolutely brilliant girls as we said, during the pandemic. they turn car parts into ventilators, to help people who are suffering from covid-19. if you can, roya, take us back to the beginning of how the group was formed, how it came to be and how you found all these young geniuses. >> in 2017, we started a team to bring them for competition and we decided to make a team of all girls because the girls in afghanistan and the women in the world, robotic community, preparing young people for the future and i'm very glad that i was connected with them. so we started to take 150 students and 20 selected and then six of them select for the competitions and it is part of the challenges that they couldn't get visa, but at the end of the day, they could come to washington and they received

the -- and encouragement and that was a point for us that could change the view of the men in afghanistan on the woman's ability in the science industries. that's why we continued our program. and our members grew from 6 to 50 currently. there have been many other competitions. and our students will take the skills they learn through competing and find a way to have a creative base to help other people as we have seen during the pandemic. they created not only open source ventilator, they created a couple of other robots for sanitizer and to help the communities and their people. >> it is katty kay here. some of the girls were so kind to share their story with us for our book living the confidence code, and we were managed to through that book to get their story out to many americans. i'm sure that, you know,

american audiences would love to know are there some of the girls still left in afghanistan? what's their situation now? what would have happened to the team if they had not been able to get out? what do you think their fate would have been if they had stayed in afghanistan? because i'm sure there are other girls in afghanistan who would love to study sciences, who would love to study robotics now, who aren't part of the team, who had to stay behind. what happens to them do you think? >> well, leaving afghanistan means for students who left is that the opportunity that they can continue practicing, embracing your own potential to make communities and education and technology. but, of course, unfortunately there are thousands of students that are still in afghanistan and they might not be able to leave afghanistan. and my students are telling me

that we are going to abandon them. i told them that, no, i'm not going to do that. there are millions of children still in afghanistan. and they are the future of afghanistan, to build afghanistan. we cannot abandon them. and 27 million afghanistans, young generation that are under 25 years old and this is a huge number that we cannot -- on this young generation and i think that providing the education, for this young generation, especially for the young girls, unlike multigenerational potential that any nation needs, but the nations from the conflict. and i hope that we will be able to continue our work in afghanistan. >> do you -- when the taliban says that it is going to continue to allow girls and women to be educated, do you believe what the taliban says or

do you think girls will not be allowed to be educated under the taliban in the future in afghanistan? >> i think it is a new chapter for us and a lot of things has changed since a month ago. and it will be very difficult and challenging in the future and, yes, taliban says they will allow, but we have to make sure that the promises that they give has happened. but, of course, it is not going to be like last month or like previous time and things are different today. but one thing i'm sure, we have to push and make sure the girls and young generation especially, young woman have the ability to continue their education. >> roya, i know it is so painful for the girls to have to flee their home country, a home they have only known since they were born in a world without the taliban. for you personally, what is it like to look back at afghanistan right now and see the return after 20 years of this group

that causes so much pain to women and girls? >> i mean, i remember that the data in 1996 when taliban took over university and that was an end. i was too young at the time. but wetime, but we all remember that darkness time. so we left afghanistan in 2003, and i was just introduced because there was lots of opportunity at the time, and i was introduced to this magic box that people called computer, and i was so fascinated with that, learning about computer and technology. and back like 15 years after that or 20 years after that young girls like my age, they are right now going to competitions. they go to compete at many other countries about robotics and ai, it showed how much change is happening. afghanistan had a lot of achievement during the last 20 years, especially for the younger generation that they

have -- they are in an era of democratic, they have access to the cell phones and internet and have access to information. they grew up in an era that there was women rights and human rights was part of that. and of course last month everything suddenly changed for everybody, and we are still in the shock, and i can say that how our feelings are, but i feel that everybody has betrayed us, our former governments and also international community who are just watching us. but the important thing is that today we all should be united in making sure that afghanistan not be like 1919 because we have a younger generation, younger population, and we cannot just forgot about them. >> we're seeing so much courage in the streets of afghanistan from women. you have inspired us, those brilliant girls have inspired the world. cofounder of the afghan

dreamers. thank you so much for being with us. thank you for the work you do. we'll be following your story. please come back soon to keep us posted. >> before i let you go, you cannot hear these stories of young girls and of women in afghanistan and the life they've known for 20 years now returning as roya just described to what it looked like in 1996 and not feel something in your gut for the women and girls who remain in that country. >> absolutely. i have two reactions really. we didn't go into afghanistan 20 years ago in order to bring about wonderful outcomes like that, but that was one of the dividends, that was one of the by-products. building conditions of security, of public order so that things like this can happen, that's not a bad result from american foreign policy. going forward my thinking is we're probably right not to

assume anything about taliban 2.0. our policy should be one of every inch of the way we should be saying if you do x or don't do y, here will be our reaction. we ought to try to build a transactional relationship, not simply try to wash our hands of it and walk away and move on to other things. i think there's a possibility not that it's ever going to be good, but that we can at least avoid going back to the worst, and stories like this are the reason we should at least explore that possibility. >> richard haass, you and i made it 30 minutes ago without mentioning what happened in washington last night with our new york giants. we had it won until we didn't. new reporting from "axios" titled "biden bombs with manchin." president biden failed to sway

democratic senator joe manchin to agree to the spending plan. what is next if the democrats did not have the vote of senator manchin. we'll talk to white house national economic counsel brian reece when "morning joe" comes back. the new sensodyne repair and protect with deep repair has the science to show that the toothpaste goes deep inside the exposed dentin to help repair sensitive teeth. my patients are able to have that quality of life back. i recommend sensodyne repair and protect with deep repair.

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coming up on "morning joe," one of the ten republicans who voted to impeach former president donald trump for inciting the january 6th attack on the capitol announces he will not seek re-election next year. we'll tell you why. plus. >> there is zero chance, no chance we won't raise the debt ceiling. no chance. let me be crystal clear about this. republicans are united in opposition to raising the debt ceiling. >> how senate minority leader

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you're in good hands with allstate. click or call for a lower auto rate today. welcome back to "morning joe" on a hazy friday morning. it is 7:00 a.m. here on the east coast, friday, september 17th. katty kay is still with us and joining us our conversation,

pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post" and msnbc contributor mike barnicle and white house editor for "politico" sam sign. that was gene robinson, there's mike barnicle and sam sign with us as well. good morning to you all. we are following a couple of important threads this morning in america's fight against the pandemic. they both concern vaccinations. nbc's gabe gutierrez reports, but first miguel almaguer in the battle over boosters. >> reporter: divided over the science before the fda is set to vote on the future of boosters, members of the agency are boasting support and opposition over a third dose of the pfizer vaccine with the stage set for a controversial decision, pfizer says their data shows booster shots needed six months after the second dose as protection from infection begins to wane.

but its vaccine continues to be highly effective in preventing hospitalization and preventing serious illness. >> this debate over boosters, does that erode the public confidence in vaccines. >> it's normal for scientists to not necessarily have consensus around a specific issue. the problem is we're in a toxic environment because of all the aggression coming from antivaccine groups and they use any kind of difference in opinion as a wedge issue. >> with volumes of vaccine data now published a new study in the new england journal of medicine did find effectiveness of a booster dose. others say current evidence does not therefore appear to show a need for boosting in the general population. >> it has made people feel that the vaccines aren't working when they are still working. >> dr. john moore worries the message has been muddled in part by the white house. in august. >> get a booster shot.

>> and earlier this month. >> those eligible will be able to get a booster right away. >> reporter: the president told americans to get their third dose before regulators even reviewed the research, mostly coming from israel where boosters have been widely given. if the fda did authorize the use of a booster, the cdc would still have to determine who qualifies for one. >> the israeli data that i've seen does support the idea of boosting for the over 60s. it's much more of a gray area for younger people, particularly young 50s. and that's what the debate is going to center around. does the data justify the decision. >> reporter: the question, do boosters get us ahead of the virus or is the third dose ahead of the science. from florida to arizona, to new york, vaccine mandate legal challenges are mounting. >> yes, there will be some individuals who will try to defy this. there will be court decisions that will appeal. >> reporter: this week a federal

judge in new york temporarily halted a vaccine mandate for health care workers in the state claiming a religious exemption after some of them sued. but the president is doubling down on his plan to require all private businesses with more than 100 employees to mandate covid vaccines or weekly testing. >> these policies are what the science tells us we need to do. they're going to save lives. >> reporter: los angeles county will require proof of vaccination or a negative covid test at indoor bars, clubs or wineries. >> i am not anti-vax, but to not be able to have the option when sending our kids to school, when going to businesses, going to establishments, going to entertainment, seems crazy. >> reporter: legal experts say there is strong precedent for vaccine requirements, especially for government workers. the court battles are likely. still, in some parts of the country enforcing mandates of any kind seems daunting,

especially as schools reopen. >> you right there, you clown. >> reporter: in council bluffs, iowa, police were called to a school board meeting. and parents erupted in protests over the district's decision to mandate masks. here in new york some restaurants in neighborhoods with low vaccination rates are struggling. >> i don't think that anyone should be segregated as far as where they can eat. >> reporter: as they start to enforce the mandate for indoor dining. >> do you think it should be the job of small business owners to police these mandates. >> i don't think it is the job of the business owner. turning to politics, one of the ten republicans who voted to impeach former president donald trump for inciting the january 6th insurrection will not seek re-election next year. congressman anthony gonzalez who represents northern ohio released a statement late last night saying he was leaving in large part due to the strain the

position has had on his young family. in addition, he wrote it's also true that the current state of our politics, especially many of the toxic dynamics inside our own party is a significant factor in my decision. in an interview with the "new york times," the 36-year-old former ohio state football star and nfl draft pick called former president trump a cancer for the country. gonzalez is the first of the pro-impeachment republicans in congress to decide against running for another term. he was facing a tough primary against max miller, a former trump aide from the cleveland area who has the former president's endorsement. gene robinson, you know, if you read through anthony gonzalez's statement, he talks about the safety of his family. the threats that his wife and children have been under because he voted to impeach donald trump. we should say this guy is a hero in the state of ohio. ohio state football star who had a run in the nfl, but even he

for casting that vote for impeachment cannot stand what american politics has become. >> no, that's what the republican party has become basically. the republican party is a cult of personality. it is a cult of donald trump, and that's what it remains. so congress gonzalez saw two things. first of all, he probably had no chance in the primary. maybe he could have survived a very tough primary race, but if he did and he won his seat again, then where would he be? he'd be back in congress serving in the republican caucus in the houses, which is just pure trumpy under kevin mccarthy who has instead of providing leadership for that caucus in the wake of january 6th, you

know, went crawling back to mar-a-lago and pledged loyalty to donald trump. life is too short, i think, for him for that, and second, there is just the very real physical threat that he and his -- and security people have had to deal with in the wake of his vote on impeachment. you know, it's a very real threat and he had to take that into consideration. you add those things together and he's not going to run again, and i don't think he will be the last of the ten republicans who voted for impeachment to make this decision because it's a rational decision from their point of view. life is indeed too short. >> yeah, this is another step, sam stein, and the full takeover if it hadn't happened already,

the republican party by trumpism, which is to say you have somebody who supported donald trump. anthony gonzalez, if you look alt at his voting record he was right there with donald trump. he did say what the president did on january 6th was worthy of impeachment by casting that vote, it wasn't good enough. he got a primary and threats of mob violence against his family. so now another one of these small group of ten republicans who voted to impeach leaving american politics. >> yeah, and we saw this with elise stefanik taking over the leadership post are from liz cheney. if you look at their voting records, liz cheney voted much more frequently with donald trump and with conservatives than elise stefanik, but on the key issue of protecting during impeachment, she was not there and stefanik was and so she loses her rank for that purpose. there's a few things that are, i

guess, troubling, if you look at it here. one is that the incentive structures for people to participate in our national political process are skewed. we reward people who are the most outlandish, the most cultish. who say the most provocative things, we reward them with campaign donations, endorsements and the like whereas someone who takes a tough vote on principle gets basically driven out of office. the second thing is there's not much balance. all the voices of skepticism, of trumpism have essentially left. what we saw in the last cycle as bob corker and jeff flake leave the senate because they calculated they could not survive there either. what does that mean for the republican party? it means it becomes much more homogeneous, it becomes much more trumpy. there aren't going to be voices of dissent the next time around when you have big issues and potentially trump running again,

that could be hugely consequential. i agree with what you said, willie, this is going to create a republican party that's more trumpy in the future. >> and liz cheney obviously has a primary challenger as well, donald trump supporting the effort to get rid of liz cheney who's already been effectively tossed out of the party by leadership. nancy pelosi was in the united kingdom yesterday having a conversation there, and she was asked about the state of american politics and particularly about the republican party. here's what she said. >> i'd say to my republican friends and i do have some, take back your party. you're the grand old party of america. you've done wonderful things for our country. you now have been hijacked by a cult that is not good for our country. take back your party. do not let it be dominated by those who want to suppress the vote because they have no positive message to win. take back your party so it's

more of a reflection of republicans in the country than allegiance to the former president. >> so mike, i mean, the news from gonzalez yesterday reminded me -- and i'm old enough to remember this -- of olympia snow saying she wasn't going to run again in 2012 because the senate was so dysfunctional she wasn't able to get anything done. this seems like quantity finally worse. you wonder, you know, is it going to get worse and worse, are we going to go from olympia snow to gonzalez to something even more egregious in the republican party? >> well, god forbid that they go to anything worse, and they could go to something worse. you know, anthony gonzalez story is really interesting in a

larger scale than just one man leaving congress. if you were to design a republican candidate, it would be someone like anthony gonzalez, a nearly perfect republican candidate. background, ohio state football player, national football league, a smart guy. ohio state stanford with a master's degree, and here he is getting messages on email, we know where you live from people threatening him and his family for voting to impeach donald trump. and it gets to, i think the larger issue of the republican party and we as americans the damage that donald trump has done to this country over the course of his four years in the presidency and the damage that continues when the largest issue may be within the republican party the president was illegally thrown out of office, that the election was rigged. and that's coast to coast, and

now you have various groups getting together talking about succession from the united states of america, southern states, western states, mid western states. the damage -- we don't talk about it enough, but the damage that's been done not just to the republican party but to the country at large, the whole of the country by the trump administration, by trump's continued rhetoric, by the continued craziness of that party, by the rapidly descending into the gutter right wing ideology of that party, we're in big trouble. >> your point about that change, i guarantee some of the people issuing threats to anthony gonzalez were cheering for him when he was scoring touchdowns for ohio state. the white house is pushing forward on the president's signature spending plan, but the road to passing the reconciliation bill in the senate just got more rough. "axios" reporting president biden's one on one meeting with moderate democrat senator joe manchin this week did not result in a deal on the spending bill.

instead the west virginia senator doubled down on his refusal to back the $3.5 trillion price tag. joining us now white house director of the national economic council, brian deese. good morning. it's good to see you. what does this mean for the future of this massive spending package? obviously you need joe manchin, you near kyrsten sinema. if joe manchin says i'm not moving on this where does that leave you guys? >> i appreciate the role headline writers have in writing those headlines. the truth is we make progress -- >> what does that mean? he says he's not going to support the bill. if you don't have him, you're not going to have the bill. >> i'm not going to get into private discussions the president is having. i can tell you we are making progress on this. we have a lot of issues to work through, but we're working through them, everybody is focused on the idea that we have

to get something done here for the country. we're going to keep that process going. if we tallied up all of the times in which this build back better agenda that president biden put forward was declared dead in the public and the press, then we would have a long, long list. we continue to keep our head down, keep moving and we are making progress here. >> what does that look like brian, maybe it won't be $3.5 trillion, maybe it's a trillion or $2 trillion, are you open to giving a little bit to joe manchin and maybe this won't end up being a $3.5 trillion package. >> we're going to keep those negotiations among the members of the congress. i think you heard from the president pretty clearly yesterday. the president is and has been open to compromise throughout this process. you saw that in the context of the infrastructure bill that he negotiated. what he's not willing to compromise on is the urgency of moving to address deep structural challenges we have in our economy that have put

working class families at a structural disadvantage. and so he's focused on how we can make real progress there and, look, you know, there are different moving parts and this is the legislative process. the house committees marked up a set of bills over the course of the last couple of weeks. now the house comes together, thinks about how to stitch that together and that will go to the senate. that's the process and we're right in the middle of it right now. >> hey, brian, it's sam stein with "politico." i want to switch gears a little bit. it's something that could be tucked into this bill, which is the debt ceiling. mitch mcconnell has said repeatedly he's not going to provide a single republican vote for the debt ceiling. i know you guys think it's hip critical. do you have a preferred avenue to do this. is it going to be in the government funding bill, and do you think you are going to need to think outside the box potentially? because that vehicle requires 60 votes.

>> so we're confident that this is going to get done. it's absolutely unspeakable, unthinkable that we would allow the federal government to default on the obligations that it has already made. i'd say two things, the first is it's important we go back in very recent history. this month four years ago september 2017, you had a president controlling both parties of congress, and they came together, passed a bipartisan short-term funding bill that included disaster relief and a short-term extension of the debt limit. democrats right at that moment were fighting the signature legislation of that president. that was when donald trump was pushing his tax cut bill through reconciliation. and yet democrats came together because it's their responsibility to put votes on the debt ceiling. we have seen this done in a bipartisan way consistently, and the best way to do this is without a lot of drama, without a lot of self-inflicted harm to the economy and to our country. and that's what we're going to

do. you know, there's a lot of posturing on this issue. we're confident at the end of the day we'll get this done. >> can i push you more on senator manchin. he clearly came out of that meeting and he has said he's not going to support 3.5 trillion. can you give us more detail on where you are? you say you're making progress, but where is the progress? because he's -- without him you don't have the deal. you don't have the bill. what are you prepared to give him, and at least some parameters of the discussion that's taking place to get to somewhere where you can have an agreement with him? >> let me make a couple of points. the first is on your question of progress, we saw extraordinary progress in the house over just the last couple of days. the house ways and means committee reported out a package of tax reforms and tax increases that would make good on the president's promise not only to restore some tax fairness in this country, but also generate revenue to invest in important

programs. it wasn't everything that the president proposed. there are members with large ideological differences across that committee, and they're able to come together and work on a package there. and you know, the question about where this goes forward, a lot of the focus needs to shift and is shifting in these conversations away from this top line. the idea of $3.5 trillion in spending is in and of itself wrong. there's never been a bill that has been $3.5 trillion in spending. this is about tax cuts, this is about investments in the country, and most importantly everything we're talking about is going to be fully paid for. you know, traditionally when we talk about pieces of legislation, you talk about the net cost of those pieces of legislation. that certainly was true with respect to the trump tax cut. even as you all were talking about the trump tax cut, you were talking about $1.5 trillion. you didn't talk about the $6 trillion in growth cuts. what is this bill going to accomplish for the economy and

what's the net cost going to be. we're confident at the end of the day, the net cost is going to be zero. >> brian, mike barnicle has a question for you. >> brian, my sense of the $3.5 trillion bill that we're talking about here is it's not very well explained to the country. there are no republican bridges. there's not republican broadband. there's not republican water purification systems. why hasn't there been more of an effort -- and i know there's been some effort -- but not more of an effort to go to these specific states, largely republican states and explain what's in it for you. >> the president has been out across the country just over the last couple of days and weeks talking exactly about that, and there are elements of this bill, in fact, almost all the elements of this bill are not only going to directly help families, whether they're republican families or democratic families but they're very popular. you talk about the need to address child care and elder care as well. you know, a lot of families, the

principle challenge they face is not only caring for kids but caring for an elderly parent. you provide support in the right way to do that you allow more people to get into the work force and work. investing in preschool and community college. this is a core competition issue. i think people get that that we are falling behind internationally. we have to out educate going into the 21st -- the second half of the 21st century. so i think that the specific elements of this bill actually are quite popular among the american people, and people are starting to get that and understand that. i would even push back about the framing of your question though. the focus on $3.5 trillion in spending is a misnomer. that's not what this bill has been, and it's not what this bill is going to end up being. >> white house director of the national economic council, brian deese, thank you very much. still ahead on "morning joe," new reporting concerning facebook employees raising the alarm about how the platform is used in developing countries and

the company's, quote, inadequate response. as republican lawmakers across the country pass strict new voting laws, key civil rights organizations are pushing back. we'll take a look at one initiative that aims to get more black americans to register to vote. we'll be right back.

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introducing xfinity rewards. our very own way of thanking you just for being with us. enjoy rewards like movie night specials. xfinity mobile benefits. ...and exclusive experiences, like the chance to win tickets to see watch what happens live. hey! it's me. the longer you've been with us... the more rewards you can get. like sharpening your cooking skills with a top chef. join for free on the xfinity app and watch all the rewards float in. our thanks. your rewards. welcome back to "morning joe," 7:27 in the morning on a friday morning at reagan national airport. in its latest piece investigating the inner workings

of facebook, "the wall street journal" reveals the platform is being used by criminals in developing countries. and one example a facebook investigator flagged to higher ups that mexican drug cartels were using the site to recruit, train, and pay hit men. the report reads the behavior was shocking and in clear violation of facebook's rules, but the company did not stop the cartel from posting on facebook or instagram. the journal writes scores of internal facebook documents show employees raising alarms about how its platforms are used in some developing countries. they also show the company's response, which in many instances is inadequate or nothing at all. employees flagged everything from human trafficking in the middle east to armed groups in ethiopia inciting violence against ethnic communities to organ selling. former facebook president brian bollen told the pattern, quote, facebook has focused its safety

efforts on wealthier markets with powerful governments and media institutions even as it has turned to poorer countries for user growth. nearly all the platforms new users are coming from developing country where facebook the main source of online communication and news. andy stone defended the site, writing in countries at risk for conflict and violence we have a comprehensive strategy including relying on global teams with native speakers covering over 50 languages, education resources and partnerships with local experts and third-party fact checkers to keep people safe. katty kay, this has been a devastating week of reporting from "the wall street journal" about facebook going back to the impact on teen girls on instagram, and what facebook has known all along from its own internal investigations about those impacts and basically turning away from it. if facebook knows all of this, if facebook isn't willing to take big steps to change its culture and to protect people,

who will? are there people in congress who are compelled to do something about this? is there anything the government can do to a company that doesn't seem to want to reform itself? >> facebook has all along said. it's been on the front lines of saying we want some kind rof regulation because it's been the wild west out there in terms of social media. but does it actually want as the reporting has suggested this week regulation that's going to stop eyeballs. that seems to be jeff zuckerberg's absolute criteria. he wants to expand the reach of facebook. the latest story on the reporting on the impact facebook is having in particularly emerging economies is more devastating. you'd have to then have regulation in those countries and those places are where people rely particularly on facebook for their means of communication. there may not be very many other means of communication people are using. facebook has exploded in those countries. this latest reporting on the

human trafficking, the drug trafficking, the cartels, the violence that is being perpetrated using facebook as a platform to engage in those activities is really alarming is and i'm not sure how you regulate that because that wouldn't be up to something that this congress could regulate anyway. it would have to be facebook deciding it was going to police itself not just in the u.s. but globally as well. >> it doesn't seem like it wants to do that if you read these internal documents. joining us president and ceo of the national urban league marc morial. today's marc national black voter day. an initiative started last year to encourage black voters to register ahead of the presidential election. lay out for our viewers, excuse me, what this day is, what you hope to accomplish today. >> thanks, willie, we've brought together partners including bet, civil rights and community groups across the nation for three purposes.

number one, to encourage people who are not registered to get registered and to do it today. we need to increase registration levels amongst black people and amongst all people. secondly, it is a call to action to push back forcefully against voter suppression. taking place in states across the nation with some 400 bills including 19 states where these bills had been enacted to make it more difficult for people to vote. background here, willie, is that 70% of the american people use the nontraditional way such as mail-in voting or early voting to vote in 2020. thus we had high turnout, thus we had a relatively flawless election, thus we had the introduction methods that are highly popular with the american people. we have to push back against voter suppression, which is highly racially motivated. and the third purpose is a call to action for the congress to pass the two bills, the for the

people act and the john lewis voter registration advancement act, which would provide the protection against voter suppression being enacted by these states. so it's an important day, three key purposes, and more than a day, willie, it's the beginning and the acceleration of an effort across the civil rights community, across grass roots organizers across the nation to elevate the protection of democracy and the need for us to understand that with january 6th and its aftermath, there is an absolute assault on the ability of people to vote an absolute assault on democratic institutions and the actual right to vote. >> and gene robinson, those two massive pieces of legislation that marc references are the elephants in the room here that you have these potentially landmark voter bills that have been languishing now for a

couple of months in congress. >> yeah, you sure do, and they are at the moment not going anywhere. i still have some degree of optimism that some sort of voting rights legislation may be possible to -- may make its way through the senate, but that's still unclear. my question for mark is national black voter day, what's the geographical focus of black voter day? are there regions, states, metropolitan areas in particular where blacks are under registered or not voting in substantial numbers being critical in this effort? >> let me share some numbers with you, gene. in the 2020 election, about 70% of white americans voted.

63% of black americans, 54% of mexican americans. so the turnout levels still have great potential to go higher. number two, when it comes to voter registration, it is important that we educate people that if you move from one community to the other, if you're a new resident, let's say of the atlanta metro area or the d.c. metro area, you must reregister. if you move from one apartment to another, from a house to an apartment, from an apartment to a house. you have to reregister so we're educating people much more broadly about the need to vote. i think, gene, the focus now is on those suppression states, the suppression states are texas, they're georgia, right now there are a number of states that were key in 2020 where the suppression movement, the movement to really, really tamp down, push down, reduce, and

frustrate turnout is very strong. however, i'm going to remain optimistic because we've not yet begun to accelerate our fight to pass these two bills. we are beginning this effort today. the congress of the united states, republican and democrats have to recognize that this is a pivotal moment when it comes to american democracy. right now the bills we're talking about are popular with the american people. when it comes to mail voting, when it comes to early voting, the american people overwhelmingly support that. when it comes to the john lewis bill, overwhelming numbers of american people believe that racial gerrymandering, racially motivated voter suppression and voter purge laws should not take effect. so we are beginning this effort. and i know it's a tough pat

pathway. we've met with many republicans, we've met with many democrats, we're going to forge ahead and we think we can make progress on this. people have to realize the threat, 400 bills across the nation in state legislatures to suppress the vote. when have we seen that post a presidential election where you had record turnout, where you had a relatively flawless election and where techniques and methods were used because of the pandemic that are widely supported by the american people. this is a cynical effort to frustrate american democracy. and our call to action today is the people to ballot, to fight it, to educate themselves in protection of american democracy. >> marc, mike barnicle's got a question for you. >> marc, there's no doubt that restoring the guts of the voting the rights bill is critical to democracy but i'm going to ask you a question that i don't

think you can answer. the fact is when you look state after state, city after city on election days americans don't vote in numbers that we ought to be voting. we self-suppress ourselves. in boston 25% of the electorate voted. that goes on every election, every city, every state. why is it that we don't vote? >> you know, i am in agreement with you, and self-suppression is indeed a problem. i think it reflects a confidence level in american democracy, but let's look at the positive side, and the positive side of this was record voter turnout in the presidential election. but i'm deeply troubled by the decline in voting in mayoral races. in my two races the turnover was 70 to 75%. why people have chosen to stay away from the ballot box, i

think it goes to whether they believe politics and government can be effective in solving their problems. it's a challenge to candidate, it's a challenge to american democracy. we have to stipulate the right to vote, and i think it also stems from we don't teach civic, and we don't teach the american governmental system and high schools in a mandatory fashion, and i think we need to return to that. but i think it's overall people are voting by not voting. that's really what's happening. we have to push back against that because we see now and we saw with the trump administration and with trumpism how damaging it can be when people don't vote in large numbers. in 2016 we had a much lower voter turnover than we had in 2020. so this is an ongoing effort and no easy answers. i'm as troubled as you are by in many elections and state elections the turnout is not

what it ought to be. but we've got to stimulate. young people need to see progress when they vote for elected officials, and that's why voter suppression, policing bills, things like immigration, student debt relief are so important. they're demonstrating to people that turned out to vote in 2020 that they can have confidence that elected officials will honor their promises or will fight hard to honor their promises. >> marc morial, president of the national urban league, former two-term mayor of the great city of new orleans, joining us on national black voter day. thanks for being with us today. we always appreciate it. coming up here, federal, state, and local law enforcement on high alert ahead of the justice for j 6 rally. details straight ahead. rally. details straight ahead

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beautiful sunrise over dallas, texas, at 6:44 in the morning there. it is 7:44 here on the east coast. joining us staff writer at the new yorker evan ofnos, author of the new book "wild land: the making of america's fury." this spans post 9/11 up to the attack of january 6th. i know you took years and traveled thousands of miles to tell this story. just kind of give us the backdrop of what you sought to explain with your reporting here. >> thanks, willie. in some ways this is the product of spending a decade abroad because in all those years i was overseas, i was living in egypt. i was working in iraq, i lived in china for a long time. i often found myself in conversation with people living in authoritarian countries and i would be sort of subtly making a case for america to be honest with you. i would say, look, i know we're not perfect, but we're fundamentally oriented towards a couple of big things, the rule

of law, the power of truth and the idea that you can have a better shot in life. and i came back to the united states in 2013, and to be perfectly blunt, all of those ideas were in doubt. i mean, a child born in 1940 had a 90% chance of out earning his or her parents, and a child born at the beginning of this century has exactly less than half of that chance. look, there was never a golden age in the simple sense. it was always exclusive to people who were oftentimes people of color and women were left out of this pattern, and yet, at the same time we have to acknowledge the ways in which we have fallen away from some of those commitments which had made the united states what it was in its own eyes for a long time. and i sort of set out and said, look, if i'm going to try to understand what changed, i can't go to places i've never been before. i won't be able to sort of measure the change over time. i said i'm going to go to three places where i've lived in my life and begin to try to figure out what has changed and what is durable. how are we actually living up to

some of the story we tell ourselves as a country, and how are we falling away from it. >> you know, as you read through your book, it's so important to note that, yes, donald trump's arrival on the political scene officially as a presidential candidate in 2015 marked an important inflection point, but the sentiment and the division that he raised to the surface were there obviously long before. >> absolutely, right, you know, i was thinking about it today that anthony gonzalez, the ohio republican who said he's not going to run again because, as he described, donald trump is a cancer on the country. it remained me there were precancerous cells visible in our politics for a long time. if you want to understand how it is people came to believe in the idea, the lie that in fact there was any fundamental problem with the 2020 election, you got to go back 20 years and look at the way that republican leadership was acculturating its voters to the lie that was there were voter frauds. all the studies were clear, in

the billion ballots cast there was something like 30 incidents of voter fraud. then you get to the birther lie about barack obama and pizza gate. it's like a stairway to increasingly lunatic conspiracy theo theories. essentially they sort of departed the plane of reality and you end up with the kind of folks who are planning to rally in defense of who they say was in donald trump's words persecuted on january 6th. >> hey, evan, it's sam stein here, i would have gone with an escalator as opposed to stairway. that's just me. look, i've been thinking about this stuff, and first of all, it's a deeply ambitious book, i've been thinking about this stuff too and the reason i have this one moment that stands out to me. i'm curious what that moment is for you. one moment that stands out to me and sort of symbolizes that escalator and that stairway where things clearly were going

off the rails in retrospect, the debate over the ground zero mosque. which in retrospect looks horrific. to me it sort of symbolizes the divisions that were really taking hold politically and society wide. i'm curious as you were researching this book, is there one moment that you think is under appreciated that really exposed our divisions and how badly they were? >> yeah, you know, it's a great point, actually, sam, because if you think about it, the fear after 9/11 was in its own way a sort of gateway drug to this larger form of divisive ideology. for exactly the reason you described. there were political opportunists in the years afterward who said i'm going to take what is a legitimate fear people have of terrorism and i'm going to use it to incite a broader sense of division. somebody's name who was lost to history, a republican congressman from colorado, he was one of the people who made that pivot. the move from fear of terrorism

to fear of muslims and fear of immigration itself. he was somebody who first said i'm introducing a jihad prevention act, which was lunacy, which meant he was to bar immigrants from bringing sharia law into this country, which is something that wasn't happening, uncertainty. >> here is the host of jeopardy mike richards. >> capped off by this week's episodes, which feature former host mike richards. after filming five episodes last month, he stepped down as host ap was later removed as the executive producer all of offensive and misogynistic comments he made in 2014 came to light. he apologized and the off screen drama left jeopardy hosting for a new host again. lamar says she now happy without the job. i wanted the job. right. then when i didn't get it, it was like, well, okay, well what's next? >> who is bessey coleman?

>> reporter:sonny pictures says ac tris mia halic will split duties with jennings until the end of the year. >> a software engineer from salt lake city, utah, ken jennings. >> jennings is of course a familiar face, his 74-game winning streak which earned him more than $2.5 million is still unmatched. the historic run led to a bond with long-time jeopardy host alex trebek, who spoke to the film maimers behind the document ear game changers. >> we had developed a rapport and a friendship and it was too tough when i had to say good-bye to ken jennings. >> i want to wish you good luck on behalf hoff all of your fans. >> reporter: sony confirms they arranged for a phone call two days before trebek died of pancreatic cancer. on jenning's first day of guest

hosting last area, he was gifted a pair of trebek's cufflinks along with a happened written note from his wife. >> like all jeopardy fans i miss alex very much. i thank him for what he did for all of us. >> we have been told mia mihalek and ken jennings will do about 20 shows each. that buys them more time as they continue to search. >> wow, yeah, i condition realize they were looking for somebody permanent. joe, thanks for that. coming up, guys, news on what 44-year-old tom brady is telling us about some comments he made about his future in the nfl. that's on pop start. first a quick check of your local news and weather. . k of your local news and weather after decades of big pollution liars, climate change deniers,

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. spacex made history this week accepting four americans all civilians in orbit. joining us now from kennedy space center in cape canaveral, florida, nbc correspondent kerry sanders. kerry, good morning. >> reporter: well, good morning, will lip. with renow day two in space for the inspiration for crew and in just released photos, they're all smiles, at one point looking back at earth what we might call the capsule's sunroof. they have also made a very, very long distance phone call to some children who are cancer patients at st. jude. this morning, the first all civilian space crew is now more than halfway through their three-day mission. every 24 hours they circle the earth 15 times, 15 sunrises, 15 sun sets.

experienced in weightlessness. the inspiration four crew members each chose four mission pillar,, leadership, generosity, prosperity. haley found her message of hope making a special connection on liftoff with 8-year-old slater. he watched her leave the pull of earth's gravity from his home in florida. >> it feels better. >> reporter: like haley, st. jude also treated slater for caner. haley now a symbol for so many. >> to see a child, a cancer patient, go through that battle and literally soar among the stars is, it's really there are not word that describe how great that image can make you feel. >> reporter: as they inspire others here on earth, the inspiration floor crew is scheduled to re-enter the atmosphere saturday. target splashed down in

florida's atlantic ocean. if the seas are rough, they can make a less than 1 degree adjustment and land in the gulf of mexico. there may be a commercial space race with richard branson's virgin galactic and jeff beso's blue origin. this all civilian astronaut mission an achievement celebrated by all. spacex's founder elon musk tweeting, just spoke with inspiration 4 crew. all is well, this is setting several record, first of all, all civilian crew, they are the furthest from either than almost any astronaut since we last went to the moon in 1972. the commander for jared isaacman, making another record by placing the first bet from space on last night's nfl game. he won his bet. and he bet that the eagles are going to win the super bowl.

he se 357 miles up there. i don't think anybody can say it any better that far away, fly, eagles fly. >> betting abenefits the giants max you money up in orbit, kerry, thanks so much, good to see you. still ahead this morning, dr. anthony fauci is among those pointing to the benefits of covid-19 booster shot. not everyone agrees a. conversation inside the fda taking place today when we come right back. ♪ ♪♪ ned version he could aess anywhere, no download necessary. and kim. she wanted to execute

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nicorette knows, quitting smoking is freaking hard. you get advice like: try hypnosis... or... quit cold turkey. kidding me?! instead, start small. with nicorette. which can lead to something big. start stopping with nicorette this week in covid history. november 2020 and the president's brain is busy. >> football is boring as hell. give him a big shot in the a -- >> she says 2 million. >> speaking of his panics, covid is making a comeback.

>> it's a tremendous death rates. if you think the blue states have them, we're at a level i don't think anybody in the world will be at. >> good-bye to the blues. time for good news. >> the vaccine is in the final stage. >> what is stopping them? >> joe biden's anti-vax theories are putting lives at risk as a part of their war to try to discredit the vaccine. >> can it be true? let's go to the cape. >> let me be clear, i don't trust vaccines, i don't trust scientists but i do trust donald trump. >> what else does the sinister anti-vaxer have planned. >> democrats and joe biden made clear they intend to challenge this elect to fight the legitimacy of the election. >> and behind vaccines and challenging the results of the election, these dastardly democrats must be stopped. >> ruth bader ginsberg has died. >> this just in, there is no

god. >> this week in covid history. >> put together by our friend at jimmy kimmel live. good morning, it is friday, september 17th. joe and mika are off. we have jonathan le mere and aussie media, katty kay. we are following the story, including the question of whether people need covid-19 booster shots. an fda advisory panel meets today to determine if a third dose of the pfizer vaccine is safe or even necessary for everyone. plus the if you deal between the united states and australia over nuclear powered submarines was meant to reenforce alliances, it has made france serious. we'll tell you the move they have made in response. more reporting from the wall street journal, the inner workings of facebook.

today's investigation details how one internal investigator flagged to higher-ups that mexican drug cartels were using the website to recruit, train and pay hitmen. what intern am documents show about the company's response to that a lot to get to. we begin with law enforcement on high alert ahead of tomorrow's far right rally in support of the january 6th insurrection. fencing, once again, has been put up around the u.s. capitol building and around the supreme court. capitol police are preparing extra security ahead of the justice nor -- for the j6 rally. they said the event is expected to draw 700 people. cnn obtained an unclassified home intelligence briefing shared with state and local authorities, which reads, in part, we are aware of a small number of recent online threats referencing the planned rally,

including online discussion encouraging violence the day before the rally. nbc news has not yet confirmed that reporting. here is what house speaker nancy pelosi had to say about tomorrow's rally. >> they're going to come saturday again. they have their plans to come. everybody will be ready, more ready for them. i'm so proud of our capitol police and other law enforcement saved our lives. i mean, it's all that close. they saved our lives. but i'm the speaker, i have threats all the time. i am not afraid for myself. i was afraid for the other members, the work,, they were traumatized by this assault on the capitol of the united states, a temple of democracy for the world. >> speaker plo es in england yesterday, let's bring in the senior reporter. you have been keeping tabs on

these online forums that planned and plotted january 6th also organized. what are you see this week inters of tomorrow's planned rally? >> well, it's some good news. you know, we're not seeing any signs we might usually see before a large national scale political rally, maga rally, extremist rally. we're seeing basically underwelling posts, really limited to people phish. people who are talking about this rally that you usually find in these circles, proud boys, qanon, maga, anti-vaxers are saying to stay. there is a conspiracy theory this is sa honeypot or plot by the feds to entrap people to commit crimes. there is bare lay whiper for the real target audience. i talked to jared holtz from the dfr lab. he is saying the local energy is already pre occupied with community issues like in portland or anti-mask, vaccine

rallies. people are too bchltz it's important to note and like the january 6th capitol attack where it was a bunch of different factions all sort of coming together under the umbrella of voter fraud, the stolen election conspiracy theory and asked to be there by president trump. no one is really doing this. this event is actually have you planned by the guy, his name is matt braynard. he works for an organization he found called look ahead america. he's a former trump campaign operative. he is a c-list player who jumps from maga cause to maga cause. he raised $650,000 last year to investigate a stolen election. so this is a money-making enterprise. it's really important to remember. that all of this media attention really helped him to do just that. >> so, brandy, former president donald trump echoed yesterday that conspiracy theory you mentioned about this rally being a honeypot so the feds could

arrest a bunch of people. she condemning the criminal prosecution of hundreds of supporters. in a statement yesterday, trump wrote our hearts and minds are with the people being pers suited so unfairly relating to the january 6th protest concerning the rigged presidential election. in addition to everything else, it has proven conclusionively, we are a two-third system of justice. he said justice will prevail. in a statement with the federalist, he described the rally as a setup. he said the media would use it as an excuse to bash republicans are. so, is what is the next plan here, brandy? because you monitor this so quickly, obviously, capitol police, washington is much better prepared than on january 6th. that mate deter these people from coming here. the groups, the proud boys, oath keepers you mentioned aren't going anywhere so what inspires

them right now? what drives them? >> it's really a culture war is happening right now. that's where we're back. there is no national election right now. we happen to look forward to, of course a. kl culture war is being waged right now. we are seeing it in l.a. with anti-trans protests, in front of children's hospitals with people protesting against the vaccine. we're seeing it at school boards with proud boys and extremists. people without children coming to these school boards, because it's a flash point for the current culture against the so-called critical race theory. so the fact that there is a, you know, a gate around the capitol right now a sad, you know, reality of the environment they live in, when we have to be village lapt. >> hey, brandy, it's jonathan le mere. we enjoyed a peek of your

visitor. to a serious matter. we, of course, know, there are some date some on the far right, january 6th, teased weeks in advance this rally even if it seems it might be fizzling out if dvenlth there has been weeks of hype around that we had various qanon series, certain days where donald trump was going to become president again. is there any violence? other dates in the horizon that law enforcement is concerned about that have taken hold in the conspiracy theory land or fear could lead to violence? >> i have a friend. there is no particular day we are looking for necessarily. you get the gist of it, we are always moving the goal post here. right now there is not a specific date we are looking to, but get back to me in a week. i am sure there will be something, some conspiracy theory that some wild ones on the internet are looking towards

the return of their messia donald trump. >> brandy, we'll let you know. somebody is looking for their fruit loops. you did not miss a beat. brandy, thanks so much. we always appreciate your reporting. so catty, if you look at the, maybe this does fizzle tomorrow. obviously, police, law enforcement are fought taking anything for granted. they don't want to be caught off guard as they were january 6th. more importantly, donald trump is coming out, perpetuateing. giving new life to these groups that had planned to come to washington tomorrow saying things like they're being persecuted. the people from january 6th are being persecuted unfairly, saying they're the real victims on january 6th and indulging this conspiracy theory it's a honeypot. as long as he is out there saying this, this movement has

life. >> she handled it like an old pro. if you put rigged president, election all ins ka, it was still fought a ricked presidential election however many times he wants to use that word rigged, it doesn't change the fact, a lot of americans may say there is a two-tier system of justice. i think what's interesting here is the degree to which this put republicans on the spotlight on capitol hill. the stunning silence from republican members in terms of their attendance and their plans are for saturday. how they are all distancing themselves as fast as possible, fought wanting to talk about it. i think it speaks to their dilemma. on the one hand, they can't afford to totally alienate the base that still thinks and trump supporters who think the people here on january 6th were righteous in some way or justified in some way, they still see them as heroic. which is why they've planned this rally in the first place

for saturday. they don't want to alienate those folks. every time they talk about january 6th, it's a win politically for democrats. republicans would much rather be focused on jierksd afghanistan, on budget issues, on big spending, on socialism, that kind of thing. they don't want to be focused on january 6th. so it's no surprise republicans are scoffering away from this one. it's tricky to outright condemn it when donald trump drops a statement saying effectively he supports the righteousness of the passenger who are doing this. still ahead, some americans eye ac third shot of the covid vaccine. others won't even take a first. we will break down the debate over booers and pan dates straight ahead. a big guest is lined up for the next episode, david byrne.

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medical contributor. so there has been this conversation coming out in support of boothers. you heard moderna and pfizer wane during the time boosters are necessary. what will this advisory committee, this panel be weighing today? >> there is one question today ahead of the fda meeting. it basically state do you believe the data is sufficient to approve a booster vaccine ages 16 and up? yes or no, that points to the fact that pfizer submitted an application for boosters to continue. there is conversation whether 16 to 60-year-olds needs the booster. that's not ahead of the fda. they have to take action what we

will see is whether the israel data is sufficient and what is felt like a controversial move improved boosters for 12 and up. they rolled it out, obviously, initially. healthcare workers, front line workers and 60 and above are doing it country wide, the data, in my review, i'm not sure i see a data there for 12-to-neevenl that's what one approach was. i think many americans expected september 20th. the advisory committee today fda action to follow. then the cdc needs to make recommendation. it's not like we will get the booster before the end of next week. >> it raises this question other discussed, even if it is safe, should we be given a third shot to people here in the united states? the argument is there have been

so many people that need the doses, we can provide them and not provide a third for ourselves. dr. fauci said that was a false choice. scott gottlieb on this show yesterday said there was enough vaccine to go around. what is your view on that question? there is a question of safety and i guess an ethical question of whether we ought to be taking boosters? >> willie, i'll add to this. this is something dr. fauci and dr. gottlieb alluded to in the past. where do we direct our focus? i want to focus on people not vaccinated. i also need to focus on finding patient who's might need boosters so the most important ting i fall on the line of let's look at the data. the data is clear that if 60 and above there is a high risk of breakthrough infixs and death. there is an incredible risk then to potentially allowing the

various to spread further. so 60 and above and that given household contact that others who are not at higher risk for dying could still get infected. we could see the virus spreading. the question i struggle with is what does 49 to 59 look like and what data to we need to recommend, for example, 16 to 40? where the immunity does decrease. but it still seems to be pretty strong. i haven't seen data to suggest they are ending up in the hospital at high rates. we haven't vaccinated our 16 to 40-year-olds. the bulk of those people received the vaccine from april and later. so we're only still seeing some of those effects. their immunity is pretty strong. i think the global controversy will enter the cdc's conversation, today's fda will be around whether data is sufficient. the american public is safe to say they're confused, they're seeing so many questions thrown

at it. people want a clear answer yes or no. i think the answer is yes for age groups, probably noor not for every single american. we will draw a bright line and represent it looks like we will recommend it for 16 and above based on the application. that's where the interesting conversations will occur today. >> dr. patel, thank you very much as always, goled to see you even coming up, australia, of course, an important american ally. so is france. we will talk about the fall jo ut from a new defense deal that has left paris fuming. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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. the white house is attempting to stem some of the outrage over french officials left out of a new partnership with the united states, the uk and australia. >> i would say we value our partnership with france on a variety of issues facing the global community. we don't see this from our end as a regional divide. we see this as areas and security to choose we want to take on together. >> we cooperate incredibly

closely with france on many shared priorities in the indo pacific but also around the world. we will continue to do so. we place fundamental value on that relationship, on that partnership. we will carry it forward in the days ahead. >> the deal which the french foreign minister described as a quote knife in the back. we will see the united states provide australia with nuclear powered technology, france had been working to secure a similar million billion dollar deal. that had been tied up in court. french officials are accuse coulding the white house of hiding information from diplomats who suspected a deal was in the works. the last-minute revelation of the security partnership infuriated french officials in washington who protest the sudden policy decision it was meant for america's fight for independence in 1781.

joining us the counsel on former relations richard haas. good morning. we can put the sga la to the side. no cocktail party at the agency. why our french allies are so upset. they hoped to be in play with australia. it got pulled off the table. what else is going on here? >> it's interesting. it's one of those little things that says lots of big things. yes, the french aren't happy, it's a part of the european unhappiness with the united states and we disagree on afghanistan and at times on russia, european energy independence. we disagree on china. the europeans are more interested in commercial ties. so the french are cranky, understandably so. they lost this big submarine deal. on the other side, the british wanted to show they have a role in the world even though they left the eu. australia needs help.

china has been very angry and sanctioning australia ever since australia called for a serious investigation into the origins of covid-19. the biden administration wants a tough deal on china and wants to show after afghanistan countries like australia still want to get close to us. so basically the french lost out. almost a game of diplomatic musical chairs. >> jonathan, you asked that question of jen psaki in the briefing room yesterday about the alliance with the french. the insult by the french foreign minister by joe biden in the white house was utterly trumpian. they say it we'll be right backed of the last administration. >> that cut close. jen psaki dismissed it and said the president wasn't giving it much thought. we know he went to europe, on that trip, he was reassureing european allies, the united states was back. we are a reliable partner again, the chaos and uncertainty of

four years of the donald trump administration gone. now we are seeing anger from the european allies about this as richard said also, of course, about the decision in afghanistan. but, richard, i wanted to ask you, we just went over how this played in paris. i'm sorry you don't have plans for that gala. let's talk about beijing. they said they used the trades world war mentality when they described this move by the u.s., uk and australia. where does this leave relations with beijing? it comes at a time when president biden had been trying to get a summit with president xi. we don't think he is going to the g-20 next month. >> u.s. relation with china are bad and have been deteriorating some years. we had the emergence of the united states, india, japan,

australia, now you got this one, this three-party group. there is continuity between trump and biden administrations taking a diplomatic enhanced pasture visa vie out of china. it violated its commitments in hong kong. it's become more repressive at home. it's not change. the economic behaviors on its part. the subsidies, the stealing of intellectual property. it makes all of its claims in the south china sea. it's been challenging taiwan. so what we have again on both side, we see a continued deterioration, the chinese, are you right, they were. they are holding it out as a reward. it's not something i suspect we will play into. so this is as bad as the relationship has been since its pod earn launch four decades

ago. this is a relationship now that doesn't have a rational rush. it's a negative momentum. coming up, americans are quitting their jobs in droves. steve ratner has new charts to lay it out for us straight ahead. discomfort back there? instead of using aloe, or baby wipes,

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quarterback who led his team to the super bowl would be out of the league entirely. kaepernick has yet to take another snap in the nfl. joining us now sports editor for the nation and host of the edge of sports podcast dave zirin, the kaepernick effect author. dave, good morning, it's good to see you. there has been so much controversy, so much debate about that act of taking a knee. i think a lot of people forget what compelled colin kaepernick to do it in the first place. he'd have this career that took him to the super bowl. they came to a few inches of winning. the next year a run through the playoffs as well. he's one of the premier quarterbacks in the league. so what brought him to this decision that obviously changed his life and as you say the book changed the world? >> yeah. it was the summer of 2016. if you remember that summer, there were two very high profile

killings by police. one of a name alton sterling, another plan the philando castille. colin kaepernick was another person disgusted by what was happening. he made the private decision. he didn't send a tweet or a press release, he was going to sit on the bench behind his team during the playing of the national anthem. it was a statement of disgust about the gap between what the flag is supposed to represent and the lived experiences of black and brown people in the united states. now we may never known he had done this. it might have been a one-week thing. except a trick reporter steve weise following him since college had been reading his social media. he made a beeline and said what's going on? he said why he was doing what he was doing. that's when the firestorm really

erupted. >> gene robinson has a question for you. gene. >> dave, it looks as if colin kaepernick is never going to take another snap in the n. is that right? and what is he doing now? >> well, it's interesting. first i got to say i wrote this book about collin kaepernick. it's not about colin kaepernick. it's about the thousands of young people that took a knee and were inspired to do so. what colin kaepernick is doing right now is really trying to figure out i think his next move. he still works out. he still thinks he deserves a spot in the national football league. anyone that knows football he is certainly good enough to have one. he's been colluded against and kept out of the leak. the people that run the nfl decide he has more value as a ghost story to haunt the young generation of players. they say don't be like colin

caper nivenlg stay in line. don't take a knee. don't embarrass the league. don't alienate fans. they'd rather have him as a punished figure than help his team. he has all sorts of projects lined up, a film on netflix about his life. a book for kids about what it was like to fwoe up as an adopted biracial kid in suburban wisconsin. he's got a book coming out about criminal justice. so i think in the next year, you will hear a lot more from him than you have heard in the last five years. >> dave, so taking a knee has become since kaepernick, it became a world wide thing, right? you see premier league soccer players doing. you see athletes around the world doing it. as their expression for racial justice, do they trace that directly to kaepernick or has it taken on a life of its own?

>> i mean, it starts with kaepernick. that's what the kaepernick effect is all about. i think his gift that we will be feeling for decades to come is that he gave these young athletes and professional athletes a language and a method they can protest as athletes. i interview young athletes from beaumont, texas to the florida panhandle and these aren't, these are folks very disgusted about racism in the united states. these are high school students. these are young athletes. yet it's not like they can no out the door in beaumont, texas and go to the next black lives matter. what can they do to register to their community? they're upset and by kaepernick taking that knee, they madly saw something and recognized a language and method which which

they could register there discontent. the shock waves i argue is largely unreported. we're talking hundreds if not thousands of athletes throughout this country over the last four, five years have seen the playing field as an appropriate place to register dissent. >> the book is a lot more of colin kaepernick. the he's at the center of it. it goes back to a long history in sports that didn't begin with colin kaepernick. you talk about moment ali. the mexico games. what's come since, that you alluded to, the nba basically saying, yes, we embrace this lebron james, lead the way. these big marquee players willing to put themselves out there. the league embracing it like the. in hasn't. what has been the difference in the approach of these pro sports leagues? >> even the national basketball association. you said the two key words. that's lebron james. when have you the best player in

the world say i want to be a political athlete. lebron james said i want to be a noble icon like muhammad ali. he was strongly affect ed by the killing of trayvon martin. lebron james decided he was going to bend the nba to being more acceptive of political athletes. he maim i became a force field. how can you punish the last guy on the bench if you celebrate lebron james being political. the nfl is tougher. they are a conservative bunch. the contracts are not guaranteed the average career only lasts three years. so what the nfl has really done is what i would describe as carrot and stick. they put details on the helmets and write gracism in the end zone. they have a safe social justice organizing you can do, if are you a player and you want to do

something, meet with the local police captain irks talk about policing. the stick is there, too. colin kaepernick shill no job. kenny stills, eric lee took a knee outside the nfl looking in. that's them saying to players, look, if you want to be politically active, do it inside parameters or else you will find yourself without work. dave, make barnical has a question for you. mike. >> dave, you don't underline the nfl corporate enterprise run by conservative billionaires and nba in terms of influencing the culture around them through this sport and their players. my question to you is. why is it that major league baseball looks like it's 1955? >> that's a great question. i mean, i will say this, though,

about major league baseball. something happened last august when the muck bucs players said in the nba they weren't going to play after the police shooting in kenosha, wisconsin. it spread to major league baseball. other teams said they were refusing to play. it was a one-day, day of protest. you could have knocked me over when that happened. you don't see that in major league baseball. it's a conservative league to not wanting to flip the bats to talk about social justice. at the same time, i had hope in this young generation of baseball players coming up. like i have a lot of hope in this country. i started this being being very pessimistic, thinking of how all these athletes tried to stand up and received terrible backlashes in their home touvenlts i talked to these people. i talked to dozens of young actors. they were so hope. they had no regrets.

they felt vindicated in 2020. that gave me a sense of hope. i teal this young generation is less tolerant of the toll ranks than any in the history of the united states. >> the new book is the kaepernick affect, taking a knee, changing the world. thank you. we turn to new developments in the case of a prominent south carolina lawyer facing multiple charges to his staged suicide. he has surrendered to thunderstorms. nbc correspondent katie beck was one of the handful of reporters inside the courtroom during murdock's bond hearing. she joins us now. katie, good morning. >> reporter: good morning, willie. state investigators here tell us these charges against alex murdock are simply a first step. they say they are continuing to move forward to other investigation tied to the family

name. this morning, our first glimpse of alex murdaugh. the once prominent attorney emerging in a beige jump suit. the 53-year-old charged with insurance fraud, conspiracy to commit insurance fraud and filing a falls police report. >> the only violence he has been involved is this, having to self execute. >> they say he enlisted a former client to shoot and kill him so murdaugh's son can collect $10,000. 61-year-old smith appearing at his own bond hearing. charged with several counts, including assisting a person with committing suicide and insurance misrepresentation. the failed fire thought left him personally hospitalized with a superficial gunshot wound to the

head. his attorney says he felt blaming his unraveling on an opioid addiction and the investigation of his wife and son. there were no invisible signs of injury and began to cry. he is now back in a drug rehab facility out on $20,000 bond. >> so he's not a danger to the community. the only person he's a danger to is himself. >> the family-founded law firm where murdaugh resigned from, they said he is no longer affiliated with that firm in any manner and any 81 who has questions about him should direct them to law enforce. >> katie, thank you. still ahead here on "morning joe", americans are quitting their jobs in record numbers. steve ratner joins us with

charts explaining why. coming up this sunday on "sunday today," my guests will be empy awaning actress cynthia aribbo. she was also nominated for an academy award for her pore trail of the harriet tibbman movie "harriet" one of the most die nomic impressive stoirsz stories on the world. this is sunday today.

live picture of times square in new york city as we come up near the top of the hour. the number of americans seeking unemployment benefits rose last week to more than 330,000, up slightly from a pandemic low of 312,000 the week before. joining us, former treasury official steve ratner with a look at another trend at play. americans quitting their jobs in record numbers. steve, good morning. you have some charts to walk us through this. why exactly are people walking out on their jobs? >> yeah, it is a conundrum. here we are in the middle of a pandemic with unemployment at 5.2%, as you said hundreds of thousands of people a week still applying for unemployment

benefits and people are quitting their jobs in record numbers. this is very different from the experience we had in the past as you'll see on the first chart that i have for you today which will show you the historical trend. you look on the left, you can see the early 2000s, quit rate, percentage of americans leaving their jobs each month hoverred around 2%, then down to 1%. as the economy recovered, it improved. then when the pandemic hit, thin gray bar on the right, it plummeted, almost immediately reversed and is now at this historic high. so the question is why. and one reason is if you look at the next chart, you see what's going on in the job market, we are now looking at a record number of jobs being offered to people. we have 11 million open jobs in this country, you can see on the

right vastly higher number of jobs than we had before. we have more jobs open at the 11 million number than people unemployed. we have 8.2 unemployed in this country and 11 million open jobs. when surveys are taken of americans, they often say they realize that they have many, many options, they're expecting multiple job offers. people are seeing a bright job market. last point on this slide that i would make quickly is in general while there are many, many people certainly hurting still from the pandemic, from the recession, on balance, american customers are in pretty good shape. their incomes went up last year when you count government programs, spending went down, bank accounts are strong, and so they're in position to be choosy. that's what you see going on. in fact, they're increasing their desires and expectations for pay as you'll see on the next chart here. surveys done of consumers show

you on the left that typically looking back over a number of years, people are asking for pay increases in the $60,000 neighborhood and that jumped up to over $70,000 since the pandemic in terms of reservation wage, what people want to be paid to take the next job. they're seeing the open jobs and saying we want to get paid more. what's happening on the right, you can see small business using one part of the economy are raising pay accordingly. going back all the way to the reagan administration, the percentages of small businesses raising pay at over 40% is higher than it has been over the 45 year period, so it has really been an unusual time. the recession, pandemic match with all these open jobs, all the demand for workers, and people then as a result quitting jobs. >> steve, two quick questions. are you seeing this across all

sectors of the economy, is it professional workers or white collar workers leaving their jobs. second question, if we're seeing wages raise, does that feed into fears about inflation? >> oh, those are two great questions. thanks for those. on the first question, it is also very interesting. the people, biggest category of people quitting jobs are hospitality and leisure sector. these are people we read about, housekeepers, waiters, waitresses, folks like that who are very low wage workers, obviously not fun work to say the least, getting paid bottom of the pay scale, many of them are saying we've had enough. that is the biggest category of people leaving. then on the other end of the scale on the question of white collar workers, what's interesting is the smallest percentage of people quitting are government workers, also are the smallers number is of jobs

on offer. so it is an interesting disparity between people closer to the top, staying in their jobs and people at the bottom basically saying we don't want to do this any more. on the inflation question, yes, it clearly has the potential to feed into inflation. it is a piece of why we have been seeing relatively high inflation numbers recently. many of us would argue having people at the bottom paid more even if it means cost more is good as a whole, but shouldn't kid ourselves, there is higher lunch and higher price for those at the bottom. it is an important thing to have happen for this country, especially for people at the bottom. >> people walking away from jobs, hoping for something better with hope wanted signs all over the place. steve ratner, good to see you. couple minutes remaining on

"morning joe." mike barnicle, give you the first final thought on the eve of another rally outside the capitol. >> that's part of my final thought. tomorrow is largely a republican sponsored led rally on behalf of all those arrested trying to disrupt the united states constitution and claim an election was rigged. anthony gonzales, he is quitting, ohio congressman, good guy, strong guy, smart guy, kind of guy you want in politics. but something sick is happening before our eyes within the republican party. drifting further and further from reality. that reality is the constitution of the united states and everything that has bound this country together for over 250 years. and it is now in peril because of a republican party that doesn't know who it is and their former leader who is still their

leader who doesn't understand the roots of what it means to be an american. >> and a quick final word to you. >> i will not be going to the french embassy tonight. i wasn't invited anyway. good to keep your allies on board if you can. >> no champagne or passed hors d'oeuvres at the french embassy. thanks to you all. stephanie ruhle picks up coverage now. hi there, i am stephanie ruhle, live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. it is friday, september 17th. this morning, we have a lot going on, so let's get smarter. capitol hill bracing for the justice for j6 rally with supporters of the january 6th insurrectionists set to gather in washington, despite organizers vowing the