votes within their own party to pass a $3.5 trillion reconciliation package, they're also now facing a battle with republicans over the debt ceiling. gop lawmakers are united in opposition to raising the federal debt ceiling as the u.s. is on track to default as soon as next month. >> wait a second. we're supposed to aid and abet party line spending which even democratic economists say will fuel further inflation. and no, that's not right. >> the credit of the united states of america should not be compromised on the altar of politics and i would hope that our republican friends would get beyond politics and do what's necessary to keep this country moving forward. >> new reaction today from the biden administration after an fda advisory committee voted against recommending a third dose of pfizer's vaccine for most fully vaccinated adults. dr. anthony fauci says the administration did not get ahead of the science and suggests

boosters are not if but when. >> i believe as a scientist who has been following it, that ultimately the real proper regimen will turn out to be the original two shots plus a boost. but you want to do that according to what the data tells you. >> and just moments ago, president biden, there you see him biking in rehoboth beach, delaware, the president exercising ahead of a big week which includes speaking at the u.n. general assembly in new york. let's go beyond the headlines with mike memoli covering the president in delaware, ali vitali at the capitol, and morgan chesky near the u.s./mexico border. welcome. mike, you first here. how is the president handling what has really been a challenging week? >> well, alex, the administration is denying really, especially in the case of the booster announcement,

there was a setback at all. it was clear that was mission one for the biden administration today as they deployed their top career medical advisers onto the sunday shows to talk about what the fda panel did and didn't do on friday. clearly, they did not do what pfizer and the administration had talked about and were preparing for, which was approving a third booster shot for all adults. they narrowly did so, recommended doing so for just the age 65 and above. but if you look back, clearly what the president said a month ago gave americans the impression booster shots were on the way. administration officials for the last few days have been stressing what they were doing is simply being prepared, looking at where the science was heading and being ready to have a plan in place should the fda take the step which they ultimately did not do for the broader population. that's why we heard from dr. fauci and dr. collins. this is what happens when you're across the street from a fire station. but let's listen to dr. fauci explaining what the fda did and didn't do over the weekend. take a listen. >> that was a plan that was

always contingent and every one of us said that, contingent upon the fda's normal regulatory process together with their advisers to make a decision as to exactly what that rollout would look like. so i understand why there might be confusion, because i think people were not understanding the difference of planning for something and actually what element of that, what proportion of it you're actually going to roll out. >> now, alex, as it relates to the range of diplomatic headaches facing the biden administration, you have the admission of a tragic mistake about the drone strike last week, the ongoing fallout of afghanistan, as well as this flap with the french. the president is going to have an urgent mission himself this week as he heads to the united nations on tuesday. he's not going to have the kind of speed dating you would typically see around a meeting with so many world leaders all in one place. this is sort of a hybrid virtual and some in person. the president will come right

back to washington, though, because he's going to be pursuing some of the other pieces of his foreign policy agenda. a virtual global vaccine summit on wednesday and on friday, an in-person meeting with members of the quad, that includes the leaders of india and japan as they focus, and australia as well, as they focus on trying to counter the rise of china. we also got word from downing street in the last few moments that boris johnson, the prime minister of the uk, will be in washington for his in-person -- first in-person meeting with president biden since he took office. obviously, they have making up to do with the french president who reuters is expecting to speak himself with biden this week. >> i think the last one with french president macron is going to be a phone call. mike memoli, thank you so much and smooth move getting over the fire house blaring behind you. let's move on to breaking news from the southern border where a new surge of migrants, most from haiti, has grown to nearly 15,000. thousands of them are living under a bridge in del rio,

texas, in part to at least escape the brutal heat, and the surge is prompting a big federal response. let's go to nbc's morgan chesky there with us. welcome on this sunday. what's happening there today? >> alex, a massive undertaking under way right now, and authorities have gone so far as to now shut down this only bridge from del rio into mexico for about the past 24 hours, also, they can try to take care of the thousands of people that as of this moment are still beneath it. and we know that right now, the main concern is getting them to the places they need to go, but resources still in incredibly short supply. at last check, the number of that group under the bridge, about half the population of the entire city of del rio. 24/7 mission on the texas border. a group of migrants most from haiti spilling onto the shoreline beneath a border bridge. thousands of men, women, and children waiting days in triple digit heat for their chance to

claim asylum. late saturday, border patrol, national guard, and texas state troopers descending on the scene to try to slow down the surge. >> we need the administration to call this what it is. this is a crisis. >> the department of homeland security sending 400 additional border patrol agents and resuming deportation flights to haiti within the next 48 hours. adding, our borders are not open. and people should not make the dangerous journey. yet so many already have. dhs saying until recently, thousands lived in south america. this haitian man sharing he paid 5,000 pesos for help reaching the texas border. across the river, the city of del rio already struggling. their bridge closure cutting off millions in cross border business. >> we're a small town. we're not equipped to take care of these people. >> authorities say some migrants will be taken to u.s. processing centers, ones where staff aren't already overwhelmed. others flown back to haiti,

where the island nation is still reeling from a 7.2 magnitude earthquake barely a month ago. until then, a realtime test for u.s. authorities. after the white house dismantled policies from the trump administration that required asylum seekers to remain in mexico while waiting for their day in court. >> every border patrol agent i talked to said this is at a tipping point for our security, our capacity. >> and complicating issues, the mayor of del rio tells me the city just across this bridge has not necessarily been as cooperative as authorities would have liked in slowing down the flow of those buses bringing migrants to the border. the message on this side of the river, very clear today. state troopers parking their cruisers, essentially on the banks of the rio grande last night, making it clear do not come north. don't make that dangerous journey here. alex. >> morgan, real quick, how hot is it there today? yesterday, it was reaching about 100 degrees.

>> yeah, we're already approaching the 90s as we speak, alex. another potentially triple-digit day here, and we co that health concerns very valid. they're clinging to the shade as much as possible underneath the bridge, but authorities have had to run ambulances in and out for medical emergencies since the group has continue today get larger. >> thong so much. >> back to d.c. and capitol hill. a house stare-down over the infrastructure bill with the clock ticking. ali vitali is on capitol hill for us. welcome. let's talk about the timeline, what is it, and what is actually at play over these two key bills? >> what this is, alex, is not going to be easy. and it's actually not even clear for how much longer we're going to be calling this the $3.5 trillion spending bill because that number is very much up for debate, as we have seen the senate come back last week and now the house joining them back in washington, starting tomorrow. we're going to start seeing more public negotiating on that

number. it's likely all parties here seem to say, that the number is going to be smaller than $3.5 trillion. but where that number actually falls is really up for debate over the course of these next few days and weeks. we're also going to see that time crunch you were talking about, the familiar split between moderate and democrat -- moderate and progressive on the democratic side. there have been questions and dissension about how best to go about passing this full infrastructure package. moderates saying and securing a promise from leadership that they're going to see a vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill in the house on or before september 27th. that's a time crunch, especially when democrats readily admit they're not going to be ready to move forward on the reconciliation piece of this. it puts things in flux. here's congressman clyburn talking about what that could mean because they're not going to meet the september 27th deadline on reconciliation. >> well, we can't. that's my point.

unless we get to that point, and that's why we have so much work going on now. our leadership is on this. we're working with everybody in all corners of our party. they're trying to get to a common ground on all of these issues. and i feel very comfortable that we're going to get there. >> when you hear congressman clyburn there saying let's hope it doesn't get to that point, he's likely talking about the fact progressives have threatened to tank the bipartisan infrastructure bill if they aren't seeing movement and a connection with the larger reconciliation bill. that's all going to come to fruition over the course of the next week or so as the leverage game continues to be played. it's interesting, though, someone who i think you're going to be talking to over the course of this hour did float this morning on another program that maybe once that 27th vote happens and the house potentially passes the bipartisan infrastructure bill, the speaker may not have to send

it immediately to president biden, thus preserving the leverage that progressives want to see but also giving moderates what leadership has promised them, which is a vote on the early side of the spectrum. a lot of jockeying that we're going to see over the course of the next few weeks as summer break ends here on capitol hill. >> for sure, and you're right. i have john yarmuth, the budget committee chair right after the commercial break, after the great peter baker with whom i'm going to spike now. thank you, ali vitali. joining me is peter baker, chief white house correspondent for "the new york times." one week, not a lot of time. progressives are saying all or nothing. talks with senator joe manchin went absolutely nowhere last week. hot is left in the white house toolbox to make these bills happen? >> this is a president, of course, who knows the congress better than almost any president in our lifetime, so don't count him out quickly, but there's going to have to be compromise

and a complicated one because you have these different strong forces within the democratic party. but what's remarkable about this, alex, is just how much is on the line. basically, what joe biden has done here is put everything into this one piece of legislation. not just a lot of spending which is one thing but a lot of other priorities as well including climate, including immigration, including all kinds of things packed into this one bill. it's as if fdr put his entire new deal into a single bill, as if lbj put his entire great society into a single piece of legislation. they did it incrementally. joe biden has come to the calculation you cannot do that. if you don't get it done in the next few weeks and months, he's not going to have a chance to do it because we'll be in the midterm election cycle and it will be impossible to move things in gres. everything is riding on the next days and weeks. >> so what's the sense at the white house, peter, as to where this is going to land? >> well, look, i think at the

white house, they understand that they're not going to get everything they want. nobody ever does. that's something that biden, again, is a master of. the question is how much they have to give away and how do they give away enough to each of the different tribes within their party. the progressives on the one side, the moderates on the other. hi can they get joe manchin and aoc both happy or at least not totally unhappy with a bill that comes through, because they have no margin for error. there's zero votes they can lose in the senate, only three i think in the house. they have to get something that brings their entire party together. not going to get a single republican vote, so it's really a coalition management challenge for president biden to bring together the disparate parts of his support group, pulled behind a single thing and say this is the presidency on the line. you may not like every piece of it, but we have given you a lot of what you do like and you have to come with me. >> let's look at his past month. there's been the fallout from the afghanistan pullout,

followed by the deaths of the 13 service members, followed by the mistaken drone attack in afghanistan. now tensions with france over the sale of nuclear powered submarines, then the covid, the fda saying no to the boosters after the administration was planning for them. along with more outbreaks across the country. then you have inflation, peter. that's still a big concern. it appears at least outwardly that biden seems impurse pervious to these problems. behind the scenes, though, what is going on? does the white house feel it has a handle on all of this? >> no, it doesn't have a handle on all of this, but they have a certain steady as she goes confidence this too shall pass. but it's been a miserable few weeks politically and policy wise in some ways for this white house. you just ticked off all of the different issues. covid, i think, being really number one on the list. and it has taken a toll. look at his approval ratings. they have sunk to their lowest stage of his presidency.

still young, a lot of time ahead, but 46% roughly. he's down in the range of where gerald ford was and doesn't want to get further down to where donald trump was, who was around 38% at this time of his presidency. so it's a perilous moment. that's one of the reasons why the reconciliation bill is important to reestablish some sense of momentum. he's not going to be able to get hold of covid in the short term. it's going to take a longer period of time to get your hands around it. that's the key, i think, for proving his first two years were success'if he can do that, and i think it's been a rough time and they're feeling it. >> let me ask you quickly about the new bob woodward and bob costa book. it claims bill barr talked with the former president in april 2020, wanted to give him some advice winning back the suburbs. barr reportedly telling donald trump that he had repair work to do with republicans and independents who may have liked his politics but not his personality, saying they think you're a bleeping bleep hole, and after trump lost, barr said

there was no widespread election fraud. trump reportedly told him, you must have said that because you hate trump. you must really hate trump. i always wonder why he talks in third person, but moving on from that, we hear these stories over and over again. how important is it to keep telling these stories? do these revelations sustain interest and relevance? >> well, alex, i sure hope they do because my wife and i are working on own book on the trump presidency. from our own reporting, we can confirm that reporting about bill barr, he did in fact have that conversation with the president in the spring of 2020, warning as he had done to george w. bush in 1992, that things were in trouble and needed to be addressed, and he did in fact talk to the president after the election and saying this is, you know, this was -- the election fraud was all nonsense and he

used the earthier terms in that. and the quote that the president gave, you know, in that excerpt is right, that he said he must not like trump. because for trump, everything is about him. everything is about whether you like him or dislike him. there's no such thing as, you know, a policy preference or a principle position if it crosses his interests. i think that one thing -- that's the reason why we want looks like this, and other reporting to tell us what happened the last four years. we never saw a president like this before. obviously, he hasn't left the scene as you just showed, you know, earlier, and he's going to be running possibly for president again in three and a half years. i think that these accounts are very important for both the history and i think for current events as well. >> well, listen, i would love to have you and susan come on the show together, a dynamic duo, as soon as the book is just about out. i'll count on that, my friend. thank you, peter. >> fiscal fight on capitol hill. lawmakers need to act on the budget and the debt ceiling and

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raising the debt ceiling. not because it doesn't need to be done. >> okay, so republicans are making quite clear they will not vote to raise the debt ceiling. their vow comes as democrats seek to pass a $3.5 trillion spending plan. so joining me now to figure this out, kentucky congressman john yarmuth, chair of the house budget committee. awfully good to see you. >> thanks, alex. >> what is mitch mcconnell

saying there? we're not going to vote for it, not that the doesn't need to be done. what is at stake if this debt ceiling isn't raised? >> well, financial havoc is really at stake. i mean, you're talking about as we saw ten years ago, the credit rating of the united states government being reduced. financial chaos in the markets. the markets will tank. and most importantly, on a human scale, we'll have literally millions and millions of americans, veterans, teachers, so forth, who will not be getting money they're earning because the treasury will not be able to pay those bills. what mitch just said is truly bizarre, and you kind of alluded to that. yeah, we need to do this, but we're not going to do it. >> so i don't understand. what's their plan? what's the fallback plan if republicans are sticking to this threat? how do you see this stand-off

ending? >> well, ultimately, they're going to have to vote for it, or we're going to have to have a vote and do it by ourselves. we can do it through reconciliation, leadership has said they don't want to do that. the reason is if we do that through reconciliation, we actually have to specify a number. that only leads to further chaos in a certain period of time. so what we should do is do what we should do is abolish the debt ceiling because we're the only country in the world that has one that operates like this. what we altto do is raise it to an extraordinarily large amount that we'll never reach. that's probably not viable politically, but we'll get to the debt ceiling raise. there is no alternative. mitch has said this many, many times over the last few years. there is no alternative to raising the debt ceiling. and by the way, he's been running around kentucky taking credit for a lot of the spending that's going on, which has contributed to the increased

debt that we have to pay for. >> well, look, it's not like all the democrats are in sync on this because there is reporting that the president failed to sway senator joe manchin on the $3.5 trillion spending plan. then earlier today, you had senator bernie sanders making clear he's not going to go lower. take a listen to this. >> all i am telling you is that $3.5 trillion is much too low. a compromise has already been made, an agreement has been made. >> on one hand, joe manchin says, hey, this is too much. other hand, sanders and progressives saying cannot go lower. so how does this pass to senate and affect the debate in the house where you are? >> we had some people in the house that are taking the same position. and there's been a lot of posturing going on for the last four, five months. i have said to -- my job has been herding cats over the last few months and i said you can posture what you want and what you will or won't vote for, but in the final analysis you're

going to vote for it because you're not going to vote against child care and paid family leave and community college and all these top priorities which, by the way, the country desperately needs. and the country overwhelmingly supports. so you know, i think -- i'm also on the education and labor committee. we had a very interesting mark-up last week. we had differences of opinion on many items, but in the final analysis, every democrat voted to move that bill along. so i think you're going to see coming together the way we did on the budget resolution authorization, the way we did on the american rescue plan. but it's work. it's work. and again, i'm not focusing on top line because the top line represents critical investments this country needs, and we can't wait to do this because this money is not going to be spent overnight. it's going to spent over ten years. and a lot of it requires time to

get done. we can't create infrastructure with child care and with senior care and so forth overnight. it's going to take a while, just as physical infrastructure does. >> yeah. congressman, i have to say i'm suppressing a giggle. you talk about herding cats. i think you have a cat on your desk you're trying to herd. you're a man after my own heart. let's move to the group of nine moderate democrats who forced that stand-off over the bipartisan infrastructure bill. a new statement, we reiterate our appreciation for the speaker's public commitment to only bring a house to the house floor that can garner the necessary votes. and you have stephanie murphy who has voted against every provision of the bill in the ways and means committee saying, there are spending and tax provisions that give me pause. there is a sense, sir, these moderates do not want to go out on a limb.

they don't want to vote for something that they think won't pass the senate. they worry that it jeopardizes their re-election efforts and could be used against them. what's your message to them? >> my message is the same thing it's been all along. we were trying to get a process going where we could essentially preconference the house and senate bills so that members in both the house and senate would only have to cast one vote. doesn't look like that's going to happen. so we're going to continue forward. we're going to vote on our bill. when it's ready. and the senate will vote on theirs when they get 50 votes. and ultimately, again, i think democrats are going to fall in line and vote for these items because of two reasons. one is these are long-standing democratic priorities. they're things that the country desperately needs, and they're overwhelmingly popular with the american people. >> so you're confident they're going to both pass, both these reconciliation and infrastructure? >> i'm confident they're going

to both pass, yes. >> okay. let me ask you about the progressive colleague, alexandria ocasio-cortez, getting a lot of attention this past week for wearing a dress we see there. and it said tax the rich. she was wearing it at the met gala in new york. would you like to weigh in on either or sense of fashion or more likely whether a statement like this is helpful? >> i see a lot of -- and i'm a big aoc fan. and she's been a phenomenal member, and she's a great communicator. i can't -- i don't think she made a particularly smart move. and first of all, going to the met gala, and secondly, to try to turn it into a political statement. i know others have done that as well. but there are a time and place for these, and somebody who has so consistently been a champion of lower and moderate income americans, and rebalancing the equities in the economy, i don't know if that was the right place

for her to be. >> duly noted. kentucky congressman john yarmuth, i appreciate you all that much more because i love the fact you have a cat that loves you that much, does not want to leave you. thank you so much. >> thanks, alex. >> the stunning admission and the staggering impact, family of those kills in the errant drone strike speak. up next, the potential rupper cushions of that deadly mistake. with the oreo shake ♪ ♪ get some whipped cream on the top too ♪ ♪ two straws, one check, girl, i got you ♪ ♪ bougie like natty in the styrofoam ♪ ♪ squeak-squeakin' in the truck bed all the way home ♪ ♪ some alabama-jamma, she my dixieland delight ♪ ♪ ayy, that's how we do, ♪ ♪ how we do, fancy like, oh ♪

from the family of the victims of that errant drone strike in afghanistan that killed ten civilians including seven children. here's part of a report from nbc's matt bradley. >> but for the families of ten innocent afghan civilians including seven children, killed in a drone strike in kabul last month, saying sorry won't bring back the dead. how could this happen after such strong intelligence and they tell us that it was a mistake?

hamid lost several family members in what the pentagon now calls a tragic mistake. they should have investigated it. now they apologize and it doesn't finish with apologizing. >> how excited am i to have this guy on set with me. nbc's chief foreign correspondent richard engle who is never in studio so this is truly an honor. i know you have been working on a special which we're going to get a bit of a preview tonight, but you look at the drone stiek, that's what made all the headlines of late, but it's almost as if this was just the final nail in the coffin of what was 20 pretty bad years. >> they say all is well that ends well, and there were a lot of mistakes along the way, but you judge a product by how ultimately it turns out. this one ultimately turned out to be a total disaster. the last final months of the war in afghanistan saw a chaotic

withdrawal, a stampede on the airport, so that means the people that were trying to get out, the u.s. ended up taking out lots and lots of people who weren't necessarily the people they were trying to get out because it was a breakdown in law and order. there were tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people rushing to the airport. and if you could catch a marine's eye, and you looked sympathetic, maybe you could speak some english, you got on the base. that means many of the actual translators, many of the actual greencard holders couldn't get out. yes, congratulations. u.s. troops pulled out. yes, congratulations. they got out 124,000 people out of the country. and then in this environment of chaos and the taliban on the streets and isis on the streets and u.s. trying to pull people out, and they're sort of grabbing whoever they can, then on top of all that, they carry out a drone strike while the whole world was watching, and initially with great confidence, say no, no, not only was it an

isis, it was a noble strike and there was a secondary blast and we know and we saved a lot of lives. and then there was some great reporting done from "the new york times" and others and now the family is speaking out saying what are you talking about? we were just in our houses and then suddenly out of no place, hellfire missile, boom. and it just is -- i think it's a coda to what was a final tragic chapter to this war. >> something that you can speak from a position of incredible experience. you were immersed in this for the last 20 years. you have been traveling the region and you're putting together this richard engle on assignment report. talk about that. >> so tonight, 10:00, please watch. please watch. we put a lot of work into it. this is a direct appeal to you. there it is, full screen. 10:00. and it's an hour long. not just a tv hour, an actual hour, so it spills over into the next hour a little bit.

so that's somewhat unusual format, but there was a lot to say. and it talks about not just what happened over the last two weeks, three weeks, several months, but it goes back. >> context. >> actually, starts several decades back, when the u.s. involvement in afghanistan began during the cold war and how that was tied in with bin laden and how it's tied in with 9/11, the re-engagement in afghanistan. so tries to draw a throughline of what was and what wasn't accomplished there. and you can talk about, we talk about the afghan people who had their expectations built up. and it's one of the hardest things in the world to have your expectations built up and to be given an education and hope and then have it ripped away. and so they have that unfathomably difficult experience where you're shown the keys, you're taught how to read, and then have the books

ripped out of your hand. you can pick your analogy. that's what happen today 40 million afghan people. then we talked about the soldiers. and there's one soldier in particular who i met on the battlefield in afghanistan. and we have been following his story for years and years. touching in with him, touching in with his family. and met him, turned out to be a very busy day. it was with him in a very tough part of afghanistan, one of the more violent parts at the time. he was toward the end of his deployment, followed him when he went home. you can use his story as a through line. we have the afghans who have this experience of being -- of being shown a way and then to have that taken away with the return of the taliban, and one of the many soldiers who rotated through there, put their lives on hold, changed their lives. not just their lives, their whole family's life. his name is sergeant lewis loftus.

>> what an extraordinary way to tell this story. we have a clip from this. let's watch it together. >> i'm kind of numb to it, to be honest, i don't really feel much. i pray for his family, i pray for his soul, you know. i try not to think about it. because when you think about it, then i get like this. >> so that was just one moment where he was showing his emotion. the stress of all the patrols, the fire fights. we had been in a firefight together not that long, earlier, and he had lost a friend, not in that firefight, but in another one. it was in a part of afghanistan at the time that was incredibly dangerous. and when you're on a patrol and you're walking around and you can't understand the language, you don't know where you can step because there's ieds

everywhere, you have 60 pounds of gear. you have been there for in his case, two patrols. two deployments. so about two years in afghanistan. plus the time prepping and uploading, and always stressed. because there are troops who go to places like afghanistan or whenever and they spent most of the time on the base doing paperwork. this guy was pushed out in a forward operating post. every day, putting on his gear and you walk around and you're ready, like a coiled spring. is someone going to shoot at me or i'm going to shoot at them? i don't know who this person is. i don't exactly know what's going to happen next. you have to be always ready to respond to that. it's hard. it's hard to watch that in ways. >> even what you're describing here, i feel heavy just listening to that. i cannot even begin to imagine what they go through. but let me just say, give me that hand. i'm so glad to have you here.

>> it's good to be here. >> you're worth your weight in gold. it's going to be something you'll learn from so be sure and watch this. afghanistan, graveyard of empires. a special edition of on assignment with richard engle, tonight, 10:00 p.m. eastern time. if you can't watch it live, record it. >> it's free. it's free. >> free. >> just watch it. >> we're going to continue this theme right now. we have admiral james stavridis, diplomacy contributor and former supreme allied commander of nato, who by the way, i understand you have an appearance in richard's special tonight. he's sitting there saying he's in it. there you go. >> something to say about that, alex. i sat through an hour and a half interview, so richard, i don't know how you're going to get the entire hour and a half into the special, but i'm looking forward to a very significant appearance. >> he's just about to leave the set. i don't think he was able to hear you to answer the question. let me, though, ask you sir, about the drone strike.

tragic, absolutely. how does something like this happen? >> hugely tragic. and it happens because we don't have boots on the ground. we don't have the kind of exquisite intelligence that we had several months earlier. it also happens because of a heightened sense of danger that you and richard were just discussing, in the midst of all this chaos, a deep desire to prevent another attack. all that kind of comes together and despite layer after layer of approvals, a terrible mistake is made here. so the real question is, what do we do now? number one, we got to get that family who have indicated their desire to leave now that they're completely identified as working with the u.s. we have to get them out. number two, we have got to go through all of our procedures and find out exactly what went wrong and why and correct it.

and then number three, we have to figure out how to get our intelligence capability back so we don't repeat this and perhaps as importantly, we are capable of seeing what al qaeda is doing, what the islamic state is doing in the future. so we have a lot of work to do here, alex. >> on the show yesterday, i spoke with the chairman of the armed services committee, congressman adam smith, and i asked him about whether or not someone needs to be held responsible. there have been clamoring for that. this is what he had to say about it. >> it happened. the people are dead, and there isn't a damn thing anyone is going to do to bring them back. and this idea that, you know, we have to hold people accountable, we have to fix this. you're not going to fix it. you're just not. it happened. as gosh, countless mistakes have been made during the course of 20 years. >> do you agree? >> i do not in this particular case. i know congressman smith, chairman smith, very well. i think that's a bit of a bleak

assessment. when we do have tragedies, be they navy destroyers colliding with merchant ships, we lost 14 sailors a couple summers ago. we had a lot of accountability. we fired a lot of admirals as a result of that. we had an ac-130 gun ship conduct a series of firings in afghanistan. we held a lot of people accountable for that. i think the military in this case is going to have to go through this, point by point. i think there will be accountability. >> what about the growing tension between the united states and france right now, sir? france announced it was recalling its ambassador to the u.s. over the exclusion from a nuclear deal. secret nuclear submarine deal. that deal with the uk and australia, that upends the prior deal that france had with australia. how significant is this back and forth right now? >> well, the back and forth between the u.s. and france is more significant than any other i can think of, alex, going back

to about 2003 when we invaded iraq. so this is a pretty significant moment. however, i am firmly convinced the u.s./french aliance which goes back to the foundings of our independence, france was our first ally, well ahead of great britain, by the way, who we were in a war for independence with. i think we will find our way back to a good relationship with france. look, let's focus on the upside here. getting nuclear powered submarines into the hands of the australians is a significant plus for the united states, for australia, because we have a growing concern about china and its rising navy. so we'll make this work with france over time. but the upside here is significant strategically in the pacific. >> with regards, sir, to the issue with your former colleague, general mark milley right now, you wrote an op-ed for bloomberg in which you said,

not only was general milley doing his job, but, quote, did the right thing in that moment. and we should be glad that he did. of course, he's facing backlash for calling china twice within about a four or five-month period to reassure them, hey, we're not launching war against you. he's getting backlash, and including some from donald trump who said he should be tried for treason. your thoughts on all of this? i mean, you still stand by the fact he did the right thing at the right time? >> from everything i know this moment, i absolutely do. now, let's face it, alex. somewhere there's a transcript or a recording of these conversations. i think that ought to be examined. it's classified. it ought to be done in a classified setting by the executive branch and the legislative branch. but from everything i can see in my own knowledge of mark milley, he has worked with me and for me for close to two decades.

i'm quite confident he was within the arc of his set of responsibilities. what i mean by that, in terms of the call to china, that's what the chairman of the joint chiefs is supposed to do, call friends and foes, deconflict, reduce tensions, reassure that we're not headed into a war. when i was supreme allied commander of nato, i would often call my counterpart in russia, the sprem commander of the russian armed forces and do exactly that. so if we need to take a look at the transcript, let's do that. i think it will validate that mark milley stayed within the confines, the boundaries, the arc of his job as chairman of the joint chiefs. >> your sage experience always welcome here on the broadcast. thank you so much, admiral james stavridis. >> try, try again. yet another attempt to pass a voting reform bill. what are the chances will one will get passed?

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a new poll today for the senate to move quickly on passing new voting legislation introduced by amy klobuchar. the freedom to vote act would address issues around voter registration, time off to vote, early voting, mail-in ballots, voter i.d., and election integrity. today, "the new york times" editorial board says joe manchin got the voting bill he wanted. time to pass it. joining me now, don callaway, democratic strategist and founder of the national voter protection action fund, susan del percio, republican strategist and msnbc political analyst, and david jolly, msnbc political contributor and former reunited, you guys. so happy to see you all. anyway, i'm going to go to you first here, because this could come up for a vote just in the next few days. it will need all 50 democrats and ten republicans. is this the bill that joe

manchin wanted, and can he get republican buy-in? >> to your first question, apparently this is the bill he wanted. he's been involved with this from day one along with senator warnock. you can't get much more liberal than that. senator schumer, it has his blessing as blessing. and very centrist moderate democrats. so i think that this this represents a broad swathe of what the democratic caucus is looking for to standardize things like voter i.d., mail in balloting and early voting and also same day registration which is extremely important. what it doesn't have is what is in the for the people act that talk about election reform and broad campaign finance reform and things of that nature. so i think that this is a good bill. the question is what are democrats going to get to get it across the finish line and we can't be held up by the filibuster.

this has to be something that they have to be willing to pull out all the stops and even looking to reconciliation or whatever the measure may be. but manchin and sinema need to step up and pass this bill. >> and so david, republicans are pushing about 900 restrictive bills across 49 states, 54 already in effect in 25 states. how will this change the electoral process if every voter can request a mail-in ballot, will we have to wait days for results? >> some states have only mail-in voting and it works. democrats are trying to make voting as accessible as it can be secure. republicans are going in exactly the opposite direction. and so i think the lesson there is even in this bill that don rightly says has manchin and

warnock, so it should be able to get 50 democratic votes, but i don't think that you will get 10 republican votes. you will hear concerns regarding gerrymandering and dark money, two of the favorite tools ofs. so i think what this bill may ultimately do, it will get the 50 votes and this will then set up the conversation over the fill buster. i think that this will test whether or not the filibuster, it will be broken by democrats or not because you will have democrats unified on klobuchar's bill. >> susan, how much more would thissage at a time the storm the capitol crowd, those who believe that trump won in 2020, those who won with delusions of widespread voter fraud and election threat, and does it matter if ittage at a times them or not? >> that doesn't matter. i think what is an interesting way of looking at this, unlike former president trump, joe biden is used to being a deal

maker. maybe there is something to get a lot over the line, he needs to get a lot done in the next six weeks. maybe he does propose some kind of reduction of the $3.5 trillion huge infrastructure bill or a carveout of the voter rights bill. there is some room for maneuvering. after all, this is democrats and democrats making deals. so there is some possibility of that. republicans will vote against it, this is true, but they will be on the record voting against it and that will be a problem and as far as taking to the grass root republicans right now, listen, they still think -- they are still fighting 2020, what do they care about what is happening next. >> okay. susan, david, don, you guys stay with me. we'll have a two-for. up next, froth or fizzle. two-fo. up next, froth or fizzle urgh! (rocket ship) hey! hey! heads up.

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don, you first on this one. yesterday's rally in support of the capitol riot, it pretty much fizzled. is that sign that eight months on people are coming to terms with the legitimacy of donald trump's defeat and is his influence waning? >> i don't, i don't think that it is. i think that it is just a sign that he doesn't have the pull that steve bannon and other folks do, richard spencer, the other white supremacists. this is just a guy who is trying to make a bit for himself. a very weird dude who didn't have the stick that other people did. unfortunately i don't think that it is fading at all. it doesn't mean that people don't believe that trump was cheated out of the election, it does not mean that folks are

turning to overturn joe biden, reelect donald trump and subvert democracy. this is just a really, really strange overture by a really strange guy. >> interesting. what about you, susan, with the new bob woodward and robert costa book, peril, that he said that he was indeed headed for defeat including this quote which i won't read, we might put it up on the screen, but anyway, how can he still pretend the election was stolen? >> well, i think that there iof. donald trump knows the truth and as we say every week, it is just part of his money making scheme. if he keeps saying that there is a fight to be had, contribute to the feet, that is what people will do. and as far as the rally yesterday, what it shows me is the influence that donald trump

had on the event of january 6. donald trump rallies people. last month in alabama, 30,000 people went out in the rain to see the former president. he still has -- he certainly has his thumb on the extremists of the party. >> we saw the quote there. and you can tell the reason why i couldn't say it on tv. so david, what do you think about all this? >> look, donald trump's power over the power is not waning. we saw that this week in the early retirement of congressman gonzalez in ohio i believe. but where it is not waning, there is a shelf life to it. ultimately donald trump will have to make a decision about 2024 because you have other leading republicans, desantis, abbott, haley, who are preparing to run and function allegely already are running for president.

so donald trump is having fun with his power over the party right now, but he will face a fish or cut bait moment. and i don't think that he wants to face it. but ultimately he will get passed by other republicans if he doesn't make up his mind pretty soon. >> okay. you guys, have a good one. the mystery deepens in the search for young gabby petito and her fiance. and her fifiance relief for your worst cold and flu symptoms, on sunday night and every night. nyquil severe. the nighttime, sniffling, sneezing, coughing, aching, stuffy head, best sleep with a cold, medicine. in business, it's never just another day.

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