that are 65 years or older, adults 18 and over with certain underlying health conditions like diabetes and obeobesity. and those that are at increased work of covid-19 because of where they work or where they live. those like teachers, health care workers, and grocery store workers. that group makes over 60 million americans that are now eligible for a booster six months after their second shot. and up to 20 million who received their earlier pfizer shot at least six months ago are eligible today. so those january, february -- those folks are eligible now. now. and i made clear all along, the decision of which booster shot to give, when to start the shot, and who will get them is left to the scientists and the doctors. that's what happened here.

and while we waited and prepared, we bought enough booster shots and states and pharmacies, doctor's office's and community health centers have been preparing to get shots in arms, booster shots in arms for a while. and like for first and second shot, the booster shot is free and easily accessible. booster shots will be available in 80,000 locations, including over 40,000 pharmacies nationwide. so my message today this. if you got the pfizer vaccine in january, february, or march of this year, and you're over 65 years of age, go get the booster. so if you have a medical condition like diabetes or if you're a frontline worker like a health care worker or a teacher, you can get a free booster now. i'll be getting my booster

shot -- i -- it's hard to acknowledge i'm over 65, but i'll be getting my booster shot. it's a bear, isn't it? i tell you to acknowledge. but all kidding aside, i'll be getting my booster shot. i'm not sure exactly when i'm going to do it, but as soon as i can get it done. of course, millions of americans got the moderna and johnson & johnson vaccines. my message for you is this. you still have a high degree of protection. our doctors and scientists are working day and night to analyze the data from those two organizations on whether and when you need a booster shot. and we'll provide updates for you as the process moves ahead. again, the bottom line is, if you're fully vaccinated, you're highly protected from severe illness, even if you get covid-19. in fact, recent data indicates there's only one confirmed positive case per 5,000 fully vaccinated americans per day.

you're as safe as possible. you're in good shape. and we're doing everything we can to keep i that way, which is where the booster comes in. so let me be clear. yes, we made incredible progress in vaccinating americans. with over 182 million people being fully vaccinated, as of today. but this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. and it's caused by the fact that despite americans having an unprecedented and successful vaccination program, despite the fact that for almost five months, free vaccines have been available in 80,000 locations, we still have over 70 million americans who will fail to get a single shot. and to make matters worse, there are elected officials actively working to undermine with false information the fight against covid-19. this is totally unacceptable. the vast majority of americans

are doing the right thing. three quarters of the eligible have gotten at least one shot. but one quarter has not gotten any. and in a country as large as ours, that's 25% minority can cause an awful lot of damage, and they are causing a lot of damage. the unvaccinated overcrowd our hospitals, overrunning emergency rooms and intensive care units, leaving no room for someone with a heart attack or a cancer operation needed to get the life-saving care, because the places where they would get that care are crowded. they are not available. the unvaccinated also put our economy at risk. causing unease in the economy -- causing unease around the kitchen table. i can imagine what's going on, the conversations this morning, a lot of parents wondering, what's going to happen? what's going to happen? those who have been vaccinated, what's going to happen?

potentially slowing economic growth, costing jobs. the refusal has cost all of us. the refusal to get vaccinated has cost all of us. and i'm moving forward with vaccination requirements wherever i can. these requirements will cover two-thirds of all workers in america. and i'm pleased to see more businesses and organizations instituting their own vaccination requirements. i've had business leaders call me and thank me for setting the policies to allow them to do the same thing. they were able to do it anyway, but it gives them the ability to move forward. we're making progress. for example, united airlines, which requires vaccines about seven weeks ago, now has 97% of their employees vaccinated. just four weeks ago, the department of defense required vaccinations for the military. and already, 92% were active duty service members or vaccinated. and we're on track to administer

24 million shots in arms since september. so please, do the right thing. do the right thing. i understand there's a lot of misinformation you've been fed out there. but try to look through it. get to people you trust. and people who have been vaccinated. ask them. ask them. get vaccinated. don't just listen to me. listen to the voices of the unvaccinated americans who are lying in hospital beds, taking their final breath saying -- and literally, we've seen this on television, if only i'd gotten vaccinated. if only. if only. they're leaving behind husbands and wives, small children, people who adore them. people are dying and will die who don't have to die. it's not hyperbole to suggest it's literally a tragedy. please don't let this become your tragedy. get vaccinated. it can save your life, it can

save the lives of those around you. you know, text your zip code to 438892. 438892 or visit vaccines.gov to find a vaccination location near you now. let me close with this. we also made so much progress during the past eight months in this pandemic, and now we face a critical moment. we have the tools, we have the plan. we just have to finish the job together, as one nation. and i know we can. i know we can. god bless you all and please, look out for your own self-interests and health here. get vaccinated. may god protect our troops. thank you. abc and rachael scott? >> thank you, mr. president. you said on the campaign trail that you were going to restore the moral standing of the u.s. that you were going to immediately end trump's assault

on the dignity of the immigrant communities. given what we saw at the border this week, have you failed in that promise? and this is happening under your watch. do you take your responsibility for the chaos that's unfolding? >> of course i take responsibility. i'm president. but it was horrible what you saw, to see people treated like they did, horses nearly running them over and people being strapped. it's outrageous. i promise you, those people will pay. they will be -- there is an investigation underway now and there will be consequences. there will be consequences. it's an embarrassment. it's beyond an embarrassment. it's dangerous, it's wrong. it sends the wrong message around the world. it sends the wrong message at home. it's simply not who we are. thank you. peter alexander? >> mr. president, thank you. you came into office on a message of competence and unity. we've witnessed what's happened in the country over the course

of the past several months, we've seen the troop withdrawal from afghanistan, the threat of a government shown right now, and democrats, members of your own party are still divided over your agenda going forward. what do you say to americans who say that you have not delivered on that promise? >> remember, i said, it's going to take me a year to deliver everything that i'm looking at here. that's number one. number two take a look at what i inherited when i came into office. when i came into office. the state of affairs and where we were. we have 4 million people vaccinated. we had no plan, we had no -- i mean, i can go down the list. so, you know, part of it is dealing with the panoply of things that were landed on my plate. i'm not complaining, it's just reality. it's reality, number one. number two, i think the part of what has to happen here, as well. for example, let's talk about my economic plan. the economic plan y'all are always -- and understandably, legitimately, citing polls.

every aspect of my economic plan is overwhelmingly popular. overwhelmingly popular. but the problem is, with everything happening, not everyone knows what's in that plan. for example, all of those women out there who are not able to go back to work because they have a dependent grandparent or parent or they have a dependent child who needs help or they can't find day care or they can't find -- i mean, look at what's happening. well, there's a solution. there's a solution in the proposal that i've put forward. and the plans we're now debating in the united states -- among ourselves, and debating in congress, as the plan, is the essence of the plan that i laid out in the beginning. so i'm confident that the at the end of the day, we're going to be able to get that done. the second point i would like to make, we talk about price tags. the -- it is zero price tag on the day. we're going to pay for everything we spend.

so it's not people -- understandably -- well, you know, it started off at $6 trillion, now it's $3.5 trillion, is it going to be $2.9 -- it's going to be zero. zero. because in the plan they put forward and said from the outset, i said, i'm running to change the dynamic of how the economy grows. i'm tired of tripledown trillionaires and billionaires are doing very, very well. you all know it and you've all reported it. and in the middle of this crisis, hard-working and middle class people are getting hurt. so i provide for, for example, a tax cut. if you have a child, you get a refundable tax credit. it's reduced hunger in america by 40%. literally, for children. you have the whole notion of being able to provide for day care for your children, getting people back to school, et cetera.

it's all paid for. it's all paid for. but a lot of these are flat tax cuts that exist within my proposal. and they're being calculated as if the cost of child care tax credit is a cost of the government. it's not. it's reducing taxes, reducing taxes. not increasing taxes. now, part of the problem is, i had hoped, i hadn't planned on or anticipated that might happen, i hadn't planned on the 178-mile top winds, hurricanes going to louisiana and 20 inches of rain in new york and new jersey and an area as big as the state of new jersey burning down in the west. so what i had hoped i would be doing, i do what i did in the campaign. i would be out making the case about what my plan contained. and it's been very much curtailed by a whole range of

things. so i think that it's understandable, people being frustrated. i think they're frustrated as well by the fact that not just members of congress, democrats and republicans, frustrated by, you know, i thought this was going to be better. i thought everything was working out. we were moving along on covid-19. and now we have all of these people who refuse to get a shot. and now, look at the people dying. large numbers of people dying. so i guess, i think it's a totally legitimate -- obviously, it's a legitimate question you've asked. but i think putting it in context here, it's going to take some time here. and i know i always kid you when you all ask me about -- well, what about, are you going to get "a" done, "b" done, "c" done? i say, well, do you want to negotiate. i'm being a bit facetious, obviously, but here's the deal. this is going to end up, i

believe, we're going to end up getting both the pieces of my economic legislation. the first piece, the 1.9, fundamentally changes the structure and the nature of the economy in this country. even though, remember, it got clobbered. it was all of this terrible thing, no republican voted for it. well, we got real economic growth. now we're at this stalemate at the moment and we're going to have get these two pieces of legislation passed. both need to be passed. and they'll have a profound impact, according to not just -- not joe biden, but according to wall street. according to the imf, according to international organizations. and so, i'll be having a meeting today with the quad, with the leaders -- the leader of india, japan, and australia. and we're going to be talking about afghanistan, which is a legitimate thing for people to

talk about. but the truth of the matter is, the end of the day is, we were spending $300 million a day for 20 years. there was no easy way to end that. and we're now still getting people out, but it's really -- there was no picture-book way to say, okay, the war has ended, let's get everybody out and we'll go home. no war has ever ended that way, other than there's been a surrender and a totally different circumstance. anyway, there's a lot, i'm sure, along the line, that things that i could have done better. but i make no apologies for my proposals, how i'm proceeding, and why i think by the end of the year, we're going to be in a very different place. >> mr. president, a follow-up on covid, if i can. what do you say to americans who disregard the new cdc guidance and get a booster shot anyway? >> well, i'm not sure how they get it -- >> you can go into stores right

now and just have got it without any high-risk situation or without that age limit. it's happening around the country. >> i think, in the near-term, we're probably going to open this up anyway. we're constantly looking at both moderna and j&j, as i said in the speech and we're looking to the time where we'll be able to expand the booster shots basically across the board. i would just say, it would be better to wait your turn in line, you know, wait your turn to get there. ken? >> thank you, mr. president. when you met with congressional leaders this week, you told them to try to find a number less than 3.5 trillion on the reconciliation package that they could live with, what is that top-line number in your mind, as you deliberate these considerations?

and then, separately, you mentioned how you're going to pay for some of these provisions. senator wyden has a proposal on annual taxes on billionaires on realized gains. is that a proposal that you support? >> yes, i do. look, i support a lot of these proposals. we don't need all the things i support to pay for this. but i do support that. look, you -- if you get a -- if you file a w-2 form, you know, the irs has access to your bank account, and your bank tells you how much you made, what you have there, and they estimate your tax. well, if you have no income, you're just -- it's all -- i mean, if you have no earned income, and it's all invested income, it's hard to figure out what the hell -- excuse me, what the heck you have. and that's why we have to -- and i know some people don't like this. that's why we have to re-hire some irs agents. and not to do anything -- not to

try to make people pay something they don't owe, just say, hey, step up. step up and pay like everybody else does. look, i really mean this. and my whole career, and i come from the corporate state of america. i just think it's about just paying your fair share, for lord's sake. we can argue whether or not the corporate tax should go back up to 26.5% or 28 or 24. but the idea that 50, 50 major corporations in america making a sum total of $40 billion pay zero. come on. come on. it's just wrong. it's just not fair. and i think it's beginning to sink through the ether a little bit here. so i think there clearly is enough from a panoply of option s to pay for whatever it is that folks decide to pay for.

and let me finish by answering the initial part of your question, if i may. the way i look at it is, what i've been telling my colleagues, and it surprises them sometimes, in those rooms. and i don't know whether you heard, but both meetings went very well. i mean, they were collegial. no one's hollering, everybody's, you know -- and people were hanging out afterwards in the oval and, anyway -- both the progressives, as well as the moderates. and one of the things that i think is important for -- and i'm trying to get people to focus on is what is it you like? forget a number. what do you think we should be doing. is it it appropriate, in junior view, to cut taxes for working

class people by providing for day care, by providing for early education, 3 and 4 years old? is it appropriate do something about free community college or means tested. what are your priorities? and some of them, when they go through their priorities, it adds up to a number higher than they said they were for. because i think this is -- we're getting down to the -- you know, the hard spot here. people are having now to go in and look in detail as to what it is, specifically, they're for. and it's a little bit like, when we went through -- and i'll end with this. it's a little bit like when we went through the issue of the bipartisan deal on fracture. there were a lot of negotiations on this. and it wasn't until people were forced to look at, what are you for? are you for taking care of that

highway or bridge in your state, in that region. are you for doing something about environmental degradation? are you for something that deals with allowing us to provide for misunderstand to states so that they can, in fact, deal with things like what happened in states where a major utility lines come down. what do you do to build those back better? to prevent that from happening? and as sort of -- there's a -- and you all speak to all of these folks, so you speak to as many as i do. i find that they're going, hmm, i never really thought that through before. i think that makes sense. and that's how we got to a bipartisan deal on a serious infrastructure proposal that really does a number of things, including things when people said, i don't want to do anything on the environment.

and they start thinking, well, wait a minute. i have all of these diesel buses at home. it would be a hell of a lot better if we had electric buses, it would change the circumstance and boom, boom, boom. so i think this is a process. and that why i said at the front end, although we got off to a very fast start with pieces of legislation, i don't expect this to be done and us being in a position where we can look back and saying, okay, can we get it done until basically the end of the year. i don't mean the vote on the two pieces of legislation relating to the economy, but i think it's going to take some time. and look, you know, my guess is, we all come from similar backgrounds. remember, you used to sit around the kitchen table in the morning and if you had the chance to do that or dinner at night with your mom and dad and brothers and sisters. what'd people talk about? they talked about, you know, are we going to be able to pay the mortgage. at least in my house.

i mean, what's going to happen if we have another one of those floods? and it blows through here like it did in queens? what's going to happen? what are we going to do? by the way, i don't -- i'm just not sure that i want, you know, my son or daughter to be going into school when so many people are not vaccinated -- you know, i'm not sure i want kenny to be there doing this. but these are practical things that people are talking about. and they're looking down the road and looking at cost of living issues, as well. and so what's the cost of living issues? well, it's because we're in a position where the ability to have the product, the elements of the production of a product that, in fact, need to go into the production of that product are -- are hard to get ahold of. because people are in trouble.

they're not able to produce them. they're not able to get it. or they're being hoarded. it's like, you know, what we have with -- and we're making progress, but like what we're doing with regard to making sure we have the computer chips to be able to keep -- in the vernacular, to keep, you know, build automobiles. i think everybody was kind of surprised when i -- i think i had said to you -- i may be dead wrong, but if i had the said to you in, say, april, that i was going to get all three major manufacturers of american automobiles saying they're going to go electric, i doubt you thought that could be done. well, we're out here on the back lawn. they've all of a sudden figured it out. they've had a bit of an epiphany. they've realized, well, wait a minute, man. china is investing billions of dollars. china is investing in battery technology, blah, blah, can this is going to happen anyway.

and i'll just conclude by saying, this is a process. and it's going to be up and down and that's why i don't look at the polls. hopefully at the end of the day, i'll be able to deliver on what i said i was going to do. one, bringing the country together on a few and very important things like on infrastructure. getting us to a place where we're in a position, and we're able to actually generate the kind of change in the dynamic of how we grow the economy.

not eliminate the super wealthy, not at all, but allow the middle class to grow out and up. and every time i hear -- i drive my staff crazy -- every time i hear, this is going to cost "a," "b," "c," or "d," the truth is, based on the commitment that i made, it's going to cost nothing, because we're going to raise the revenue. raise the revenue to pay for the things we're talking about. and right now, if you look at the reconciliation piece, $1 trillion of that is tax cuts. it's not raising anybody's taxes. it's tax cuts. people will be paying less taxes. but the people who pay less taxes will be working class folks, so we can put women back to work. put people in situations where they have -- as i know you're tired of hearing me saying, but my dad's constant refrain. just give people little breathing room. a little breathing room.

thank you, guys. >> president biden at the white house, taking questions on the controversy over actions of agents at the border, promising those people will pay, he pushed his infrastructure and social safety net bills. he defended taxes on the wealthiest americans. the main topic here was supposed to be coronavirus, and he did talk a lot about that, too, because it comes just hours after that highly unusual move from the director of the cdc who overruled the cdc's own advisory panel's limits on who can get booster shots. dr. rochelle walensky added people whose jobs put them at high risk. you heard the president talk about it. teachers, health care staff, grocery store workers, adding them to the list of those recommended to get a third shot, along with folks over 65, many people with underlying conditions. we've got a lot to talk about. so let me bring in nbc news white house correspondent, monica alba, also with us, nbc

news correspondent, heidi przybyla, and andy slavitt, former white house senior adviser for the nation's covid response. great to have all of you here. monica, these last 26, 27 minutes, showing just how much the president has on his plate right now, of major consequence in the middle of this ongoing pandemic. what's your takeaway? >> exactly, chris. and how much the president views these issues as intertwined. i thought most notably, as well, he did commit to getting his own booster shot. he said he doesn't know exactly what day he's going to be getting that, but he is far more than six months past his second dose. he and the first lady, actually, got their shots back in january. so he told everybody who might be in the same category, those who got their inoculations in january, february, or march, today, starting now, you can go to your health care provider, if you got pfizer and get that additional layer of protection. so that was the president's

overall message, wanting to make sure people know and have clarity, because really this process has been bogged down by some confusion in recent weeks. remember, it was originally monday, september 20th, the president had promisd third doses for all adults. that's what he thought the target date was going to be. and the cdc and fda panels had really only approved that for a subset of americans. that's what you're seeing today in terms of the elderly, the immunocompromised, and now those who might be at high exposure due to their work. the president trying to add some clarity here, because the white house has certainly been under criticism for that and then he continued to really lay into the unvaccinated. he said, those who haven't gotten their shots are putting americans most at risk, they're jeopardizing our health and our recovery, economically, he said. and in terms of his highest priority, he said, it's not booster shots, it is getting shots in arms of people who still have been waiting on the sidelines. so the president talking about

all of those two different things. and a lot of news on a couple of other topics, as you mentioned at the top, there. but the overall message, there is a lot of pressure on his domestic agenda and the president wanted to dismiss that, saying he doesn't even listen to the polls. he doesn't pay attention to them, and he argued that he needs a full year to implement a lot of what he promised on the campaign trail, but we're coming up on the end of september here, so he's just got a couple of months left to do that, of course, chris. >> andy, i thought it was fascinating, something he said toward the end. look, the cdc advisory panel took a lot of time and a lot of care, looking at the numbers, right? looking at the scientific evidence. looking at what they know about booster shots. but then the president said, we also have to consider practical things. i'm not sure i want my son or my daughter to go off to school if there's a lot of unvaccinated people. i certainly heard from teachers, from health care workers yesterday, who said, we have been waiting for this. they were so worried they were not going to be eligible.

how is it -- how do you balance those two things from your perspective? obviously, the science, you want to make sure that we're doing the best that we can with what we have. but also, as the president put it, those practical things. >> well, the cdc director, rochelle walensky made the right decision today, because, the decision from her advisers, we have to remember, this is an advisory panel. these aren't people who have to live with and are accountable for the decision. dr. walensky does. she's in charge of the public health of the nation. and she knows that it's not just about preventing hospitalizations, which largely occur for people over 65, but of course occur at any age. it's about allowing kids get back to school. it's allowing people not have to miss work and quarantine. it's about allowing teachers to get back to school. it's about ending the pandemic as quickly as possible.

so she -- there was disagreement on the panel. that's okay. it's actually great to live in a country where you can dissent out loud and have differences of opinion. those differences of opinion are natural. but at the end of the day, someone has to decide. and what she did was a very much fundamentally where the fda was. she said, if people are at risk, let's take that risk away and let's get them boosted. >> yesterday, andy, the panel acknowledged that this is complicated. and as monica said, and i think a lot of people would agree with her, confusing, who qualifies as having a serious enough condition. do they have the kind of job that qualifies them? okay, it's teachers, health care workers. who beyond that? is it folks who work at meat packing plants? should those specifics be left to doctors and pharmacists or does there need to be really specific clarification? >> well, look, i think what the president is doing and what the cdc director did is she's essentially treating americans

like adults and saying, look, you know if you're at high risk. you go in and attest, if you feel like you're at high risk, i don't think you're going to see a cvs or a walgreens pharmacy tell people, no, sorry, we don't agree with you. >> and is that okay? because i thought peter alexander asked a really great question. you know, that there -- i think all of us, probably many of us know people who have got in to get booster shots who might not fit this criteria, but feel like they want it. i know we've had doctors on air say they've actually been asked, what can i say, sort of, what's the key word that they're going to let me get my booster. i also know people who have legitimate underlying conditions who have been turned away. so that sort of adds to the confusion, doesn't it? >> look, if we had a shortage of boosters, which we did when i was back in the white house in january, february, and march, we would have to be very strict and very clear. because if you got a booster, you would be taking a booster

away from somebody else who needed one. that's not the case today. it's not zero sum. we just committed 1.1 million doses overseas. we have enough -- which is going to be about 150 to 150 million already sitting in states in pharmacies. i think what the cdc is saying is that if you feel at risk because of your job or your health condition and you're not 65 or you've talked to a doctor or someone else who tells you, you know what, i think it wouldn't hurt to get a booster, it's not very controversial. we're going to err on the side of making sure that people feel protected as opposed to having to deal with these shortages. we're not in a shortage situation, so we have the general advice from people to get and people can choose to follow that advice and i hope they do. >> so i'm really glad you're at that clinic that is administering boosters in virginia. have you had a chance to talk to staff? did they have any concerns about who can, who can't get it?

were they caught offguard by that decision from rochelle walensky? >> reporter: well, their not confused when it comes to themselves. they're very relieved. these folks have been fighting this battle every day on the front lines, and for them, it's not just about preventing severe disease in themselves, but about what they might be bringing home to their unvaccinated children, to their immunocompromised parents. so they really welcome dr. walensky's decision, as far as administering to everyone else, i asked dr. aaron miller, who is one of the chief health physicians here, he said, the criteria will be similar to the initial phase here, which is people with heart conditions. that's a lot of people, right. how do you verify that? he basically said, look, it's going to be about the honor system. here's what he said. >> we rely on folks to self-certify that they have an underlying medical conditions, much like we did in the initial

stages of vaccine rollout. we had great cooperation from the community, and visit one of 50 sites, not only operated in conjunction with the arlington county public health, but neighborhood pharmacies and other locations. >> reporter: and chris, to andy's point about this not being a zero-sum game, unlike earlier this year where we had long queues, people had to wait for weeks, they've got the infrastructure in place. they're not expecting this to be a problem to give the vaccine to anyone who wants it. again, they're stressing that while this information is still being studied for everyone else, it's important to tell the public that it's not that it is unsafe for younger people, it's just that we don't have the data yet that this is really an interim decision. they are studying this issue of myocarditis in younger males, but it's just that the data isn't yet in. >> heidi przybyla, andy slavitt,

monica alba, great stuff from you today after the president spoke. thank you. appreciate your time. also this morning, another big story. more proof this morning that the big lie is just that. and the proof is actually being provided courtesy of donald trump's biggest supporters. nbc news has received a draft report on the audit in maricopa county, arizona, which trump said would prove that he won. well, not only does it not show that he won, but joe biden actually gained more votes in that audit. joe biden gained votes. but that isn't deterring texas, which under pressure from donald trump insists that they will conduct audits of their own, in four of the state's largest county. just a reminder, donald trump won texas by more than five percentage points, but wants an audit anyway. all of this comes as the house committee probing the january 6th attack is ramping up its investigation. the committee demanding

documents and depositions from four of the president's former advisers. chief of staff mark med dose, former chief strategist steve bannon, former social media director, dan scavino, and former pentagon chief of staff, kash patel. jamie raskin says the committee is just getting started. >> we're collecting a lot of information from e-mails, facebook postings, twitter postings. we have millions of pieces of evidence that have already flowed into us. if any of these people think that they're somehow going to escape undetected, they've got something else coming. >> the former president says he will fight those subpoenas, invoking executive privilege, but he's also facing a potential showdown with his successor about what happened on january 6th. "the washington post" reporting that the biden white house is leaning toward releasing information about what trump and his advisers were doing that day. it's a move that could profound legal and political ramifications. joining us now, carol leonnig,

national reporter for "the washington post" and an msnbc contributor. and co-author of the best-seller, "i alone can fix it: donald j. trump's catastrophic final year." and joyce vance, an msnbc legal analyst. you guys are so perfect for this. carol, first, subpoenas. we just heard from jamie raskin, they're going after this information and there are going to be more subpoenas out there. tell us the significance you see of these four and what you expect going forward? >> you know, to my mind, chris, and this is probably because of what i focused on in my reporting and in our book, "i alone can fix it," but mark meadows and dan scavino are probably witnesses number one and number two, along with the president's daughter, ivanka trump, about the president's movements, state of mind, and actions. everything he said on january

6th. what did he want and what did he say he wanted when he was speaking at the ellipse. both of them were intrinsically involved in that. what was he saying when he learned that this situation at the capitol that he had enabled, encouraged, and sort of thrown kerosene on, when he told people to walk up pennsylvania avenue, go to the capitol, and fight like hell for their country, what was his reaction and what did he say and do when that turned violent, and when that was obviously an insurrection rather than a first amendment protected protest. those moments are important for all of us to understand. i'll add one more thing about some of these individuals. they also were in contact with trump protest organizers, meaning the pro-trump allies who were organizing all of these bus loads of people to come to washington on january 6th, scavino was monitoring social media for the president, trying

to figure out what were these nationalist and white supremacist groups discussing about their plans. so those moments tell us -- and i think will tell the committee, ultimately, what did the president know about the violence and the likelihood of violence that was being planned and plotted in the weeks and days before january 6th. how much warning did he have? and there's plenty of indication that mark meadows and scavino both had a lot of window into that. and of course, it's something that logically, they would have shared with the president. >> so, joyce, when you look at those four, understanding what carol just laid out for us, is donald trump the ultimate target here in your mind? >> there's no doubt that the committee is trying to figure out what role trump played on january 6th. that seems like an obvious question, that we might not need to answer, but the important

thing about this investigation is that it will be detailed and proof oriented, rather than letting the two very divided factions in this country draw their own conclusion. this investigation will try to document at each step of the way what the president was doing and what he was thinking. to carol's point, these are exactly the right witnesses to start with. the chief of staff and deputy chief of staff meadows and scavino both had access to the president in the run-up to january 6th and that day. and it will be very important to hear from both steve bannon and cash patel. bannon, of course, infamously, is now reported to have said the day before january 6th that it would be, you know, wild and dangerous and that all hell would break lose. it's important to know what he knew when he made that comment and others. kash patel, of course, was at dod, where there was a three-hour delay in releasing the national guard to work with capitol police.

and it will be important to understand what role, if any, the white house played in that holdup. so chris, now we've got a professional organization run by battle-hardened congressional leaders, who have learned how to do this in the crucible of indictment proceedings. and they have, again, brought on professional investigative staff. their lead investigator is a former united states attorney, tim haffey from virginia, who ran the investigation into charlottesville after the white supremacist protest there. this will move forward in a professional manner, akin to a criminal investigation, and get some of those details i always here carol say that she wishes that she had subpoena power. these folks will have it. >> if anybody gets information without subpoena power, it's also carol leonnig. but joyce advance, thank. carol, i haven't seen you. congratulations on the book. we appreciate you taking the time to be on. and coming up, agencies across the government are preparing for a potential government shutdown. we're going to talk to senator debbie stabenow about what it

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look at this, michigan democratic senator debbie stabenow, who sits on the budget and finance committees. always good to see you, senator. looks like you democrats are heading for a showdown with republicans over the debt ceiling. you can feel the frustration of folks like your colleague, jon tester, who said, it's all so stupid, he can't even think of a comparison to stupid on his farm. but the critical question really is, is this mostly for show? is it political theater? or are you worried we could be looking at a shutdown? >> well, chris, it's always great to be with you. and i share jon's frustration. i think all of my democratic colleagues do. and to put it in a framework here is we always come together to be on the appropriations for the annual budget. it's, you know, we basically got agreement on that, but then the other part of the agreement is, we're going to pay the bills that we've already incurred

under covid. so this thing called the debt ceiling is really just paying the bills that by the way, republicans including mitch mcconnell voted for, under president trump, to be able to deal with the pandemic, so they vote to spend the money, now they won't pay the bill. so we will have a vote next week on the appropriations, so there's no government shutdown. we're going to have that vote on making sure that we're paying our bills. and republicans are going to have to decide. we can't do a government shutdown. >> but are you confident that there won't be one? >> pardon me? >> are you confident there won't be? >> i feel very strongly that we will find a way to move forward without a government shutdown, but it's not going to be easy. you know. and so the administration has to prepare. i mean, there's a lot on our plate right now, as you know. >> let me ask you about that, if

i can. senate majority leader chuck schumer and nancy pelosi came out and announced a frame work to pay for that $3.5 trillion reconciliation bill. it focuses on education, health care, child care, other safety net issues. but they were pretty vague on the framework. framework. what more can you tell us? >> well. it's an important step forward that they've come together between what the house did and the ways and means committee, what we're doing, the finance committee, to really narrow the options down to the way we pay for this. i think, though, what is so often missed and frustrating to me and my colleagues is really what we're trying to do. it's not about a top number. you know, this is really about attacking the biggest crisis of our lifetime which is the climate crisis. which, by the way, my policy committee just put out a report this week that in the last five years we've spent about $126

billion a year just picking up the pieces. we're going to have next week more emergency spending. >> but you know, senator, that the number does matter. and there's going to have to be an agreement on the numbers somehow. so where do you see that falling? >> well, what we're doing right now is going through all the specifics. i mean, we have strong agreement that there's a climate crisis we have to address. we know that there are some costs that keep families up at night. that's what we're talking about going through child care cost of medicine and so on. how do we bring together those things that we all agree we need to get done and look at that it means in terms of costs and how to finance it. the big debate really is the difference between republicans in power who gave a $2 trillion tax cut to millionaires and billionaires. we gave the largest tax cut for working families earlier in the year, and we want to continue

that and pay for it by making the wealthy pay for their share. and so we all agree on that. so if for us it's in the sausage making is hard when you look at all this. there's a lot of moving pieces right now. but fundamentally, we know that we've got to have a tax system that's fair for the majority of americans. not just a few people. and that there's so many costs that keep people up at night that have not been addressed for way too long. and that's what we're trying to put together. the costs of doing what needs to be done, making sure the wealthy pay their fair share and not forgetting that over the cloud over all of this literally is the climate crisis. we have got to -- >> in the final minute, i want to ask you about that. it is climate change. you released a report earlier this week detailing the growing cost of nonacting. again, in our final 45 seconds,

do you feel you're making any headway with that argument with republicans whose own states are not immune to the impact of climate change? >> you know, we came together earlier in the year with my agricultural committee. we cast an important bill in climate agriculture. beyond that, we are not seeing the bipartisan support that we need to tackle it which is why we have to do it through this budget process. we're going to have to do this as democrats. our colleagues will vote next week for the emergency spending to pick up the pieces from the disasters in their states. but so far have not been willing to fund the way to stop the disasters in their states. and so that's going to be left to us as democrats. and we will step up and we will do that. we have to do that. >> with a few things to keep you busy, senator, thank you. we appreciate your time. meantime in washington d.c. this morning, a moving new memorial that provides a vivid reminder of the devastation of

the coronavirus pandemic. more than 670,000 white flags are planted along the national mall. each one symbolizing an american life lost to the coronavirus. joining me now is the creator of that memorial. suzanne, can i just ask you, this is the first time i've seen a picture with you in the foreground with the scope of that. often television and photos don't really do something like that justice. but even now when you look at it, does it shock you, the size and the scale of this? >> you know, i have to tell you that you can't even see the entire installation from this point. there's still another quarter of the flags that are up over the horizon line. i'm shocked daily, daily by the immensity of this loss. each day i change the number on our large sign to remind people

that we have loved ones who are still dying. >> so talk about the inspiration behind this memorial. why you decided to do it. >> you know, i've done 25 years of hospice volunteering, and so i understand every single person deserves dignity, but when the numbers became so big, these people who have died were reduced to a single number. and so i wanted to reclaim the dignity of each person we've lost. >> this is not the first memorial on the mall. before the inauguration, there were 400 lights set up along the reflecting pool to represent what was then 400,000 lives lost. as you're looking at what you've done, do you think it would be appropriate to have a permanent memorial when we finally get through this pandemic? what's the importance of acknowledging what's happened here in your mind? >> i think there's an immense

need to memorialize this. but it might not be the time now to discuss that, because people are still dying. when we do reach that point, we have to memorialize this in a way that speaks to its root causes. this was a virus, but other things contributed to it. like job disparities, health disparities. and people just listening to the wrong information. so i hope that we can address those when we memorialize all the people who we've lost to this virus. >> it is a stunning thing to see. thank you so much for that and thank you for taking the time to be with us today. we appreciate it. a programming note. starting this coming monday, jose diaz-balart is going to be in this chair. you'll want to tune in for that. craig melvin picks up with more news right after this quick break. break. brilliant. crest 3d white brilliance.

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