unfortunately, we will have this conversation several times. good to see you this morning. >> good to see you. >> don't go anywhere. straight ahead, the latest developments in the january 6th investigation with a house of the house select committee investigating the attack. representative jaime raskin. another hour of "velshi" begins right now. and good morning to you. today is sunday, september 26th. i'm ali velshi. it is a big week ahead on capitol hill. democrats are aiming high as they attempt to move forward with two major cornerstones of president biden's agenda. moderates want a smaller physical infrastructure bill. progressives want a sweeping bill regardless of whether any

republican support. we're talking about two different bills here. house democrats are set to honor the promise they made to moderates. that's the smaller $1.2 trillion bill that mainly focuses on physical infrastructure like roads and bridges. whether it passes is unclear because progressives are vowing to tank that package unless it is passed in tan den with the larger bill. moderates say the price tag here is way, way too high. now, all isn't lost, though. the house budget committee approved the reconciliation package, that's the larger bill, yesterday. so a bill will be brought to the house this week. and nancy pelosi wants to discuss this tomorrow. she's asking them to show up to the meeting. she's asking for the fullest participation among her members, and she hopes most of them will attend. meanwhile, democrats are

juggling investigations. the january 6th investigation is going right to the source with a wave of subpoenas by passing the typical requests for testimony. the panel is seeking information from mark meadows, former chief strategist steve bannon and cash patel, the chief of staff for the then acting defense secretary christopher miller. these four guys have a deadline to meet. they have until october 7th to hand over any relevant documents. they can expect to be invited to the committee after that. jaime raskin of maryland is joining me. he is on the judiciary and oversight committee. he was the lead house manager during the ex-president's second impeachment trial. and regardless of all of that, he would probably be the guy that i turn to try and

understand this. because congressman it is good to see you. thank you for joining me this morning. you have always been able to draw a straight line between the stuff i was just talking to attorney general shapiro in pennsylvania about, these small attempts that become big lies that do undermine democracy across america. >> well, what's the underlined structure problem? it's clear. the minority party literally has no platform coming out of its 2020 convention, and its only agenda is voter suppression of the other side. hillary beat him by more than three million votes in 2016. biden beat trump by more than seven million votes. and we are accelerating the political majority's advantage here. so the whole strategy is try to keep people from voting and

using every anti-democratic trick in the book from gerrymandering to the filibuster to right wing judicial activism to these election fraudits in order to stop democracy from working. so we're fighting on every single front now to defend democracy in the constitution system against a political party which positions itself outside the order. >> you make an interesting point that people forget. that the republican party did not have an official platform going into the election. a lot of people read these books. the republican party decided donald trump is their platform. and now when donald trump loses the election and engages in a lie about the election, they're kind of stuck with this. when i say republicans, they're republicans because they want small government or they want lower taxes, that's not actually the republican party right now. >> well, that old school republicanism is gone.

to the extent it exists you find it with the people that are exiles like liz cheney and adam kinzinger. this is essentially an authoritarian religious cult where their platform is whatever donald trump says it is on any particular day. and they live in terror of their own leader not giving them money or whatever it might be. and that's why i say it is a political party outside of the constitutional order. it is not agreed to participate according to the rules that we have adopted. so what we're trying to do is to defend democracy itself at the county level, at the state level and at the national level. what that means for us in congress is to get to the truth of the january 6th attack because that could be a dress rehearsal of what that could be in 2024, is they continue to perpetuate the big lie. we need to figure out the

financial organizing done by the proud boys and the bungalow boys and the storm troopers to attack the officers beginning. and then go to the question of the very inside ring which was the coup itself. we tend to think of coups as something perpetrated against presidents. this was a coup organized by the president against the vice president of the united states and against the congress. and we have to make sure that it doesn't happen again. and that may demand some reforms to the electoral count act or what we really should have done years ago is get rid of the electoral college which is just filled with these boobie traps which can be exploided by bad faith actors like donald trump. >> we need to have that discussion as well. but let's talk about the fact you say they're operating outside of the normal rules. republicans and the republican

house leader have all said this is an illegitimate committee, despite the fact you have republicans on it and it is formed as a select committee. president trump said executive privilege permits those four people not to hand over documents and then not to provide testimony. you are, of course, not a guy i want to go up against on that front because you are a professor and a legal scholar of the constitution. what do you expect to get? do you expect to get the documents you want and you expect honest testimony from these four guys? >> yeah. we expect to receive all the documents we subpoenaed as the united states congress. executive privilege is a privilege asserted by the president of the united states. that's joe biden who appears not to be interested in asserting executive privilege. there is no such thing as a former president's executive privilege. if you were to get to the merits of that, what the court said in the u.s. versus nixon case is you have to weigh the public's interest in the truth of the

matter against implications for national security if the information is turned over. here both of those factors are on the same side. the public's interest in truth and ours militate for disclosure of all the information about this attack on the congress and on the constitution. so there is literally nothing on the other side. why would any court say they shouldn't take over any detail and every bit of information they have about a violent insurrection? >> what happens next? are some of these people you invited for testimony or for documents and subsequently for depositions lie? they have been known to lie in the past. we know they have been lying about january 6th. so what happens after that? >> well, they should be careful about that because they could be held in criminal contempt. they could be held in civil contempt and inherent contempt of the congress. the congress itself has the authority to exact punishment

against people who disobey lawful orders of the u.s. congress. but they also should be wary of the fact that we have lots of this information already coming from lots of different sources. there are whistleblowers that are out there. there is a huge electronic paper trail from people's e-mails and texts and from what's been posted online by the insurrectionists themselves, and there are a lot of people coming forward. so, you know, we think it is every person's legal duty to tell the truth to congress in an investigation. it should be an honor and a privilege to turn overinformation about a violent attack on the congress of the united states that ended up putting more than 140 police officers in the hospital from broken noses and broken jaws and traumatic brain injury and so on. you would think these people that once held themselves out as public officials would cooperate

with information about this. but we're going to get all the information we need about this. we don't have too much of a doubt about that and we're encouraging everybody to come forward with information they've got right now. >> thank you for joining us right now. a member of the house select committee on january 6th. well, nancy pelosi is describing a busy week ahead, urging democrats to work together to pass the $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill. joining me now is the democratic senator of michigan. she sits on numerous committees including the budget and finance committee and the chairwoman of the communications committee. thank you, as always, for being with us. you are -- i mean this with the greatest respect. you are a person who dwells in the details of these bills, and you have two very big bills,

both of which are very, very detailed. does seem like there are political things at play. what does the next couple of very important days look like to you? >> well, ali, it is always great to be with you. as the speaker says, it will be a very intense week i think a little bit longer. i do want to say one thing first looking at all of the pictures on january 6th and to son. i remind myself this president has only been in office nine months. and when you think about tackling the covid crisis and saving hundreds of thousands of lives and, you know, the fastest six month economic growth of any president in the first six months in 40 years, the rescue plan, the bipartisan infrastructure plan, now we're talking about really the long term. how do we solve the republicans that problems won't join us in solving, ignore or that president trump actually saw in

the wrong direction. there is so much more to do. and, so, when we look at this, it is the ultimate sausage making. it is complicated and from the oud side looks confusing. but i believe we will get there because we have this support on what needs to be done on infrastructure, right? the bipartisan infrastructure bill. we want to get done in a bipartisan way what we can get republicans to support, including internet. and now it is what do you do off the other things? climate crisis. this coming week, we will spend another $30 billion picking up the pieces in emergency spending. we say this is an emergency, the ultimate emergency. and then all of the rest of it is about those costs that have been going up and up for people, that keep them up and night and frankly whether there is child care or so many other things we're trying to get it done.

now, will we get this all done at one time? i think it is reasonable to say that we will move forward on what we can agree on right now and we're just going to keep working. i do believe that the climate pieces, clean energy manufacturing, bringing jobs back to the united states so we're not dependent on other countries in order for our supply chains and getting these jobs in the united states, i do believe there is strong support to do that, and then i believe that what we're doing right now is figuring out what are the next pieces that everyone can come together on. but everybody in our caucus understands that there is a lot to do. >> so let me ask you. nancy pelosi has worked with the house tomorrow when she gets them altogether. is it -- are we passed -- as far as the sausage making goes, are we passed negotiations? is this a political discussion saying you're going to ignore us

because you think the bill is too big on the larger bill and moderates saying don't get us involved in your larger bill? in other words, is this politics or is this policy right now? >> right now i can specifically speak that it's all about negotiations. i mean, i have been involved in conversations many, many, many this last week. our leader senator schumer bringing in groups of people, talking to individuals. it is all about negotiation because we know we have some members that would rather -- won't support doing a budget bill at $3.5 trillion. and it is not about the number. i hate to even focus on the number. it is about what do we want to do? but everybody knows we have to tackle child care. we want to get people back to work, want to get women back to work, you better make quality child care available and lower the price or that's not going to happen. how long have we talked about the cost. what about paid family leave?

it came such a clear issue in the pandemic and so many other things. so for us it is about putting together and what we all believe are all the different needs across the family space. what are the ones we can get agreement on right now on the next step to be able to move forward? and we all agree that the tax cut we put in place through the child tax credit for working families that started in july and has literally lifted children out of poverty, half the children in the country out of poverty, we want to continue that. republicans are going to get another tax cut to the wealthy. we want to give it to working families. by the way, i forgot to mention, as always, we can pay for all of this, all of it just by making sure their wealthy pay their fair share. so it is a negotiation right now, very intense negotiation on

the ultimate package. >> senator, thank you for joining me. it is good to talk about these things with you. we of course have many opportunities to talk about some of the specific policies. you, like i, share a dedication talking about climate change. so we'll have that conversation next. senator of michigan. well, coming up, women around the nation are worried. they're actually really w worri about the texas abortion ban. first, the strategy in montana. at least three people have died after an amtrak train derailed yesterday. the train carrying more than 140 passengers and 16 crew members was traveling from chicago to seattle and portland when 8 out of the 10 cars derailed. officials are still trying to determine how many people are injured. 15 people are thought to be hospitalized. the caught of the accident is

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funeral services for gabby petito will be held later today. the kor forhas ruled her death a homicide. her boyfriend is still missing. her mysterious death has gripped the nation and for good reason, but it's also brought attention to other cases that have gone unsolved and unpunished, particularly stories of missing women of color. nbc's antonio hilton reports. >> reporter: as the search for brian laundrie intensifies and the loss of gabby petito is

mourned, there is growing outrage. >> we don't get the same level of urgency. >> reporter: david robinson's daniel is a 24-year-old geologist who disappeared after work one day this past june in arizona. police found his car in a ravine, but three months have passed and there is no sign of im. robinson said police are making little progress and he had to hire a private investigator. >> reporter: why do you think cases like yours go unheard. >> as much as i hate to say this, sometimes i think race is a factor. >> reporter: in 2020 more than 500,000 people reported missing. and they're disappearing at disproportionate rates. while black americans make up 13% of the population, they account for 35% of missing persons cases. >> automatically law enforcement assume that these children, they're runaways. these adults that they are

involved in some sort of criminal activity. so they're basically just, you know, swept under the rug. >> reporter: former law enforcement officer started the black and missing foundation after seeing too many of these cases ignored. >> i can roll off sandra levy, natalie holloway, elizabeth smart, gabby petito. but no one can name one person of color that received that mainstream type of media. >> reporter: reports show this bias is especially egregious for indigenous people. more than 700 indigenous people have gone missing in the last decade, but none have received the same focus as her case. >> it's been rather disheartening. >> reporter: patsy's sister has been missing for over 30 years.

she started her own podcast to push for more resources and accountability in these cases. >> there is never any communication, never any follow-up with families. so the whole justice system just needs to be turned upside down. >> coming up, paying the price of the pandemic in more ways than one. my next guest is taking every government to task for how the economy has been handled for the last year and a half. but no one was prepared to fight what covid had in store. you don't want to miss this discussion. you don't want to miss this discussion t here. the history she writes in her clear blue skies. the legends she births on home town fields. and the future she promises. when we made grand wagoneer, proudly assembled in america, we knew no object would ever rank with the best things in this country. but we believed we could make something worthy of their spirit.

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the covid-19 pandemic absolutely rocked the global economy in the past 16 months. millions of people died around the world and there has been no coherent sense of global leadership. every country was essentially left to fend for itself. here in the u.s. individual states were forced to take

charge because of the trump administration's absolute incompetence. in the middle of the panicked chaos, we did learn some important things. we know the world is in no way, shape or form to handle a pandemic that many experts warned was coming. we learned that some developed nations are so broken by political and cultural division that all we can hope for is a disjointed at best. joining me now is the author of that book, adam tughs. thank you for this and this book. i would like to start with a quote from your book about the stimulus. you said that december 2020 stimulus deal reasserted the key role of budget dare politics in america in response to the crisis. this was driven by domestic politics. it was necessitated by the

inadequate system of welfare. it served as a trading ground between washington's warring political camps. the result was that through 2020 and beyond, the united states was committed to running the world's largest fiscal stimulus. that had implications far beyond the united states. tell me what you mean by that. >> well, america did in 2020 run the largest government package of support in the form of tax breaks, guarantees to credit and spending that america has ever seen. we made the discovery last year that it was serious about doing something about poverty, which is to send low income americans checks. a lot of other people got money, too. and the fed did stomach lus in a way that helped in business to the most wealthy. but we did discover that you are willing to back up the situation of even the hardest of americans. and that does spill over.

it spills over in demand for goods, for exports in other countries and to our near neighbor mexico which went through this crisis, very little government help in mexico with a large flow to the south. so this action, which was a little surprising in the u.s., but nevertheless it did do the job of supporting those that needed that help. >> and you studied the last recession. one thing we have learned is that the government through the federal reserves and central banks around the world know how to keep money flows for businesses. and for those that believe that will trickle down, that's pretty good. this was different. the idea that you could actually give money -- by the way, we argued a lot about giving money to regular people for what some people thought was no good reason. but when you do that, you actually lift lots and lots of people out of poverty. they pay taxes. there are more jobs created and it is actually quite virtuous.

>> absolutely. and we're out of excuses on this. if we were not remedying the problem of poverty, at least its immediate symptoms, the racial injustice, the criminal justice and so on, but the immediate symptoms, the hardship felt by families, it is a political choice. that was targeted money going to middle income and low-income americans. that's the most unprecedented deal that was done. but we're out of excuses on this. like if you are serious about trying to save tens of millions of americans and tens of millions of kids from low-income and the hazards of malnourishment giving them a decent platform for their education in a later life, we know what to do. >> we're out of excuses and we have a test project and we know it works and we know it's relatively easy. you said something interesting about it doesn't fix racial

injustice. i want to quote from your book where you say black lives matter fed off a deep well of historic unjustice. it tied the present to the past. it linked the killing on may 25, 2020 to centuries of injustice that led to it. that was powerful. anger and indignation over the past were compounded by fear of the future. in light of the inequiies of 2020, how many more black americans would become victims of violence, discrimination and poverty? >> i think you bring that back very well. george floyd was killed on may 25th, 2020. and for many people, many black people in this country, those two worlds collided. >> absolutely. and the pandemic itself as we know hit minority communities particularly hard in a way that in a sense it implified, it made clear in a devastating way the huge inequalities in america and society. those go all the way down to the

present day. if it is history, it's history that's not over because the pandemic is still spreading in many parts of the united states, particularly in the south, particularly in those parts of the united states where you have a large african-american population at particular risk of economic, social disadvantage. so this is an ongoing crisis and a crisis that affects people of color around the entire world. i mean, the impact of this crisis was profoundly unequal globally, and it has hit the low income countries hardest. >> thank you for a great book. professor of history at column bee you university, the author of "shutdown." grab yourself a copy. it is on sale now. ten years after the repeal of don't ask, don't tell, some veterans are just now getting the benefits to which they are entitled. trying to make up for decades of discrimination against lgbtq it

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after ten years, lbgtq members of the military who were discharged under the don't ask don't tell policy are finally getting access to the benefits they missed out on. last week the department of veterans affairs announced new guidelines to extend benefits to veterans discharged for simply being gay. on wednesday the house committee on veterans affairs heard testimony from veterans and civil rights advocates about the long-term impact of the former policy. the don't ask don't tell don't pursue and don't harass law was meant to end america's decades long legal ban on anything identifying at lgbtq from serving in the military. what the policy really did was make it so people in the military could not ask each other about their sexual

orientation. but service members could still be kicked out for being gay or nonbinary. according to the department of veterans affairs, 14,000 of our nation's veterans for less than honorably discharged for being gay. 33,000 of them discharged since 1980. as late as 2016, trans people were barred from the armed forces. former president trump reversed new policies meant to protect them once he was sworn into office. by the end of 2016, only 8% of veterans applied for the benefits that they were owed. despite the rocky road to equality rights, the 2011 repeal of don't ask don't tell reenergized the movement and would help garner support for the same sex marriage laws that help protect american families today. a report from the university of southern california says there are currently 65,000 openly gay service members currently working for the u.s. military.

after years of delays, the long-awaited obama presidential center is one step closer to reality. >> so when it came time to plan the obama presidential center, we wanted to give something back to the place that gave us so much. >> since then, we've worked with people who care about this place as much as we do, harnessing the collective talent of south side. >> the virtual ground breaking for the library will take place tomorrow. jonathan joins me now. jonathan, it got kind of -- everything else we talk about, it is hard to remember why would the obama library even be controversial? >> that's right. it has had several delays over the past few years. but it's moving on. opponents to the project thought some black residents in the jackson park neighborhood on chicago's south side, which is the site of the center would be displaced because of the

project. environmental thought it would be detriment cal to the trees in the area. why they believe the center will be an economic boom for the economy. also we will discuss democrats plans to raise the debt ceiling this week despite gop opposition and we'll see what congresswoman karen bass has to say about the police reform bill she offered in the shous and shepherded through the house. >> good to see you again, my friend. stay tuned. catch more with jonathan right after "velshi." the sunday show starts at 10:00 a.m. eastern. coming up, hiding behind the shadow docket. but it was not the first time, and that's definitely not the last time. this is "velshi." elshi.

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many americans that led to historic civic participation. the dire threat he posed to democracy ratcheted upturnout to elections in 2018 and 2020. and many of those people were women. millions showed up for the women's march in january of 2017, the largest single day demonstration that the planet has before seen because it was thought to be such a danger to civil rights. women were elected to office than ever before. grant it, there have been stinging defetes along the way. fierce opposition to justices the brett kavanaugh and amy coney barrett were swept aside. bringing us to this moment for women in america. chipping away at abortion rights for decades, but a ground swell seemed to be building again. in direct response to the texas

ban, another large scale protest set forth next saturday. this time it's called the rally for abortion justice. now, this new law is deplorable and should be fought tooth and nail, but we also may see it as ushering in a new wave of warriors in the front lines of this fight. joining me to disjust, jennifer who has a new book out, the author of the new book "resistance." welcome to both of you. good morning to both of you. jennifer, let's start there because your thesis of the entire book is that women saved democracy from donald trump, but we haven't really seen democracy saved from the impulses of the democracy of donald trump and of the worst impulses of republicans in this country. i say that only because there are moderate impulses in this country that have a lot of space

in the dialogue of where we go right now, but mostly we're seeing the most impulses right now. >> absolutely. women may have contributed heavily to the defeat of donald trump, but the rescue of democracy goes on, and donald trump was a symptom of the problem. the larger problem is a populist, racist movement that is fundamentally inconsistent with democracy which is authoritarian in nature and women once again will play a critical. that is what my book talks about. the book talks at length at the first wave of abortion bans that we saw because immediately anti-choice forces recognized that they could flip decisions 40 years plus of precedent because they had changed personnel. and i think that movement and i would venture to say this

movement will generate and mobilize women and they will turn out in large numbers. we saw 2018 record number of women run and win, help flip the house. we saw a record number of women, particularly white college educated women voting for president biden, latino women, independent women, and that will need to continue if the forces of trump and of anti-democracy will be defeated. >> but the things we're talking about, the things that jennifer is talking about particularly on the court and in federal and state courts across the country have been the result of decades of work where conservatives have laid the ground work for that. now we are seeing that some of these things that are not legislated, including the right to an abortion are subject to the whims of the court that today may not be operated aligned with the sentiment of the american people. that could be with us for a

while, unless something is done about it. >> and you put it lightly. they're actively undertaking this type of partisan value at the court level, which is harmful to the institution in and of itself. fruits of the labor of trump and mcconnell to rush through nominations like kavanaugh, like coney barrett that are yielding these type of decisions as the justice put it, that undermining decades and decades of precedence and they're harmful. it's frustrating. we see the decline in the approval of the court rejecting the types of decision and the public seeing this court for what it is. a conservative body pumped up by the gop that is now doing the gop's bidding. >> jennifer, you have written about this several times a week for the last i don't know, five or six years. the degree to which some of the policies -- you may or may not agree with a certain policy, but the underlying effort to

undercut democracy and the role that individuals have in this, winning an election does not solve that problem. we've seen the end of this stupid, fake audit in arizona. we're going to see something like it in arizona or wisconsin. when it comes to the movements we have watched over the last five years, the likes of which we have not seen since the civil rights movement, how do you continue to compel people to understand that this fight isn't over, and this fight isn't over if it doesn't affect you? >> this is a tremendous challenge, because i think many people thought well, donald trump is gone. we've weathered the storm. but as you correctly point out, the texas abortion case and the general attack both to suppress voting but also to subvert elections, the ability to flip elections when you don't like the result remains a fundamental threat to women and to all americans to democracy itself. and it's critical that democrats

really focus on this. that they use sharp and direct language to refer to january 6th. it's not simply a riot, but as an act of domestic terrorism intended to overthrow our democracy. it's critical that they present what is going on and has gone on through the january 6th commission or committee both with the help of liz cheney and with adam kinzinger, and it really is critical that they explain again and again to the american people why it's so critical. and it is fundamental that they win on some sort of voting rights reform. some sort of protection, so that these are arizona, pennsylvania, texas audits don't become a reality in 2022. the republicans come up with this notion that elections are not even final. they're just the opening bell in an attempt to throw the election their way. that's a fundamental threat to democracy, and people have to

remain engaged and remain active. they need to run for office and support candidates who are running for office. and in some sense, i hope that the book is a reminder that we know how to do this. the past four years were a warmup for what has to come. now we have an infrastructure, the good bones of a grass roots democracy. but that has to continue to be active. every generation has to rewin the fight for democracy. >> yeah. i think that's a good way to put it. rewin the fight for it. keep it alive. there will be many women motivated to do that. we've seen the fruts of the motivation and the overlap between women and people of color in places like georgia where it was women of color who basically got people to turn out to vote. but here's the problem. for most americans, their right to vote at the moment is not threatened. for most americans, their exposure to having to get an abortion is not threatened, because if you have means, you can still get one.

how do we convince people who are not black, who are not poor or women or may not need an abortion who do not ever have a problem voting that our democracy is incomplete. our union is less perfect until we all put our backs into fixing all of this? until everybody has the voice they have earned under the constitution of the united states. >> i think a couple things point in the direction that people understand it. the polling shows overwhelming support for codifying roe and keeping it as law of the land. what needs to happen is the energy and the frustration that people are experiencing needs to be matched by energy and action from congress, because the last thing that democrats need going into the midterms is to say hey, we saw the gop come for your voting rights. we saw the gop come for our access to abortion and the gop come for all of your rights. and we didn't do anything. right? so democrats will continue to be

able to tap into this energy of their supporters by demonstrating an ability to deliver. that means using every tool available to them to do it and congress. we just had the house of democrats and the house pass the women's health perfection act. we now need to see it in the senate. we've also had voting right bills passed in the house. we need to see it in the senate. we've had issues with policing as the bill imploded because of republicans not negotiating in good faith. now we seed to see senate democrats take it on themselves. democrats have to tap into this energy. the public sentiment is there. they need to set the example by using every tool to deliver to protect our rights in realtime, to deliver and make sure that their proposal to voters in the midterms is we fight for you, fin for you, and elect us so we can do it again. >> i appreciate your time.

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this is "the sunday show". last night donald trump returned to the stage in georgia at a rally that was described as the debut of the trump ticket, but was really just a who is who of noted conspiracy theorists. trump has been increasingly on the offense lately on tuesday he filed a $100 million lawsuit against his niece in the new york times where the bomb shell 2018 report about his tax records. and last night he wasted no time in pedaling his characteristic lies about the election. >> it is clear in arizona that they must decertify the election. you heard the numbers. and those responsible for wrong doing must be held accountable. it was a corrupt election. >> this rally and trump's lies come just two short days after the g