a good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters in new york. welcome to "alex witt reports." developing this hour, president biden's agenda is facing a critical week ahead as congress works to pass a $3.5 trillion reconciliation package as well as a $1 trillion infrastructure bill and they're also trying to avoid a government shutdown and raise the debt ceiling, as progressive and moderate democrats are wrangling over how that will come to fruition. speaker nancy pelosi confident they will ultimately get it done. >> let me just say we're going

to pass the bill this week. i promised we would bring the bill to the floor. but you know i'll never bring a bill to the floor that doesn't have the votes. you have to go when you have the votes in a reasonable time. and we will. meanwhile cdc director rochelle walensky is defending her decision to split from her advisers and offer vaccines to those in high risk environments. earlier today we made clear who would qualify. >> it's really for people who are working all the time with many different people, unvaccinated and at high risk, the vulnerable occupations like our health care workers, our teachers, our public transportation. and donald trump returns to georgia, rehashing grievances from the election during a rally. but as speculation swirls over a possible 2024 presidential run, trump giving a glimpse into the future. >> make america great again again. again again.

we made it great. now we got to make it great again. that begins with an earth shattering win in november 2022 to be followed by an even more glorious victory in november of 2024. >> we now turn to nbc's josh lederman and sahil kapur. sahil, i've got a lot of questions for you. will progressives win out over moderates? will democrats unite to pass both spending bills? and how are these internal negotiations likely to play out? have at it. >> alex, all good questions. there is a lot of work for democrats to do this week to stick to deadlines they've put out there. the house is expected to vote on monday. that was the original plan on the senate approved infrastructure bill. but it's possible that monday vote slides a little later in the week because as you heard there, speaker pelosi says she

won't put a bill on the floor that doesn't have the votes. congresswoman jamillah jayapal, leader of the progressive caucus, insists the bill doesn't have the votes and will fail if it comes up at this point. congressman josh gottheimer opened the door to a vote not necessarily monday but later on this week. so you kind of see the stars aligning there. the big issue here is that progressives have to feel comfortable with where that larger multitrillion dollar package is before they agree to vote on the infrastructure bill. they're worried that if the infrastructure bill is passed, the centrist democrats will then have no use for the reconciliation bill and it could all fall apart. at the end of the day there will be very intense negotiations in the coming days to get democrats to agree on this and that $3.5 trillion price tag is likely to come down. let's have a listen to what speaker pelosi had to say about that. >> obviously with negotiations, there will have to be some changes in that, the sooner, the better, so that we can build our

consensus to go forward. and we will do that. >> but it sounds like you acknowledge that the final number is going to be somewhat smaller than that. >> yeah, i mean, that seems self-evident. everybody overwhelmingly, and i think even those who want a smaller number, support the vision of the president. and this is really transformative. >> it's been known for some time that the number is likely to come down but this is the first explicit acknowledgement of it from speaker pelosi. that shows that democrats are moving this train along to a place where they can finally get agreement between the house and the senate on a reconciliation bill and that would enable passage of the rest of president biden's agenda, a big, big several days coming up here for democrats, alex. >> we'll watch the art of the compromise. sahil, thank you for that. the biden administration is on defense amid growing criticism of treatment of haitian migrants. nbc's josh lederman is at the white house with new reaction to that. how is the administration responding, josh? >> the public criticism has been

coming not just from republicans but it's been friendly fire from democrats as well, alex. and today the homeland security secretary, alejandro mayorkas, defending the biden administration's handling of this crisis, as well as the actions of some of the officials who have been assigned to carry out that responsibility, with mayorkas saying they acted heroically, saying he's intensely and immensely proud of the men and women of homeland security. also saying that it was not a mistake to remove from the united states 2,000 haitians despite the challenges that they are facing back at home, saying, look, this isn't an immigration policy, it's a public health policy, because they are relying on this point on those emergency authorities by the cdc, because of the covid-19 pandemic, to quickly remove those who are coming into the country without being able to be screened for covid-19 and for other possible risks. but we also heard mayorkas

trying to address the very devastating images that so many people have seen coming from the border, including those officers on horses who seem to be chasing or intimidating haitian migrants. that's obviously a policy the biden administration has announced in the last few days, that they will no longer be using. and president biden said he was outraged and that those who did it would pay. this is how mayorkas, who runs the agency that oversees those officials, responded to that today. >> the entire american public, correctly and necessarily, were horrified by what the images suggested. they conjured up such a dark past that we have not entirely put behind us. i think the president echoed the sentiments of the public in terms of what those images suggest. >> mayorkas also suggesting a lot of this is out of his control because he simply can implement the laws on the books, calling our current immigration

system completely broken, alex. we should point out, this has been such a tough one for the biden administration to handle because there are so many people within president biden's party who are saying this does not seem consistent with the type of more empathetic approach that the biden administration campaigned on when it comes to people fleeing violence and instability in countries like haiti. but the biden administration, white house officials, also concerned about the perception of looking too lenient on people coming uncontrolled into the country, particularly with those midterm elections around the corner next year, alex. >> all makes sense. josh lederman, thank you so much for that. joining me now, california congressman maxine waters, chair of the house financial services committee. thank you so much for joining me, i'm awfully glad to have my fellow california girl. let's talk about these images of border patrol officers on horseback coraling the haitian migrants. it has drawn outrage across the country, including from you. you said at a press conference last week that the way the

haitian migrants are being treated at the border, quote, take us back hundreds of years. since you said that, have you seen any improvement in how things are being handled in the days after it's happened? >> well, let me just say that those images were shocking. and for those of us who have been fighting for so many years for justice and freedom for all in dealing with what can be done to make up for the past, all of that, it just absolutely shocked us. those images were such that the biden administration would have to condemn those images. and we know that this is a complicated situation. but to have our border patrol on horses, chasing down human beings who are fleeing a country that is violent, where you just had the assassination of a president, where people are

afraid that they can't live there, that they can't be safe. and so we've got to deal with this situation. i think it's being handled incorrectly now. i think that first of all we should honor the constitution and allow those people who are seeking to come into the country, according to our constitution, to be able to give their story, and we will make a decision about whether or not they're eligible to enter. and so, you know, without even thinking twice about it, we know what is happening in haiti. we know about the violence. we know about the gangs. we know about the corruption. so to automatically just send people back, some of whom have never even been there, who are coming from other places, is just unacceptable. and so i think what we should have been doing is we should have been, number one, vaccinating all of those who are under the bridge. we're involved in an international effort to make sure that everybody gets vaccinated. they should have done that.

and they should treat them like they're treating the afghans. we're bringing afghans by the thousands into the country and they deserve to be brought in, because they assisted us in the war. that's how they should be treating the haitians, bringing in those who are eligible, vaccinating and making sure that we're not simply trying to drive them back with our border patrol on horses, with their reins, looking at if they're beating them. >> it was horrific to look at, and i frankly don't want to see those videos again played on our broadcast during this interview. you mentioned the afghan refugees, those coming into our country. why the different approach to them versus the haitians? i know there are those that have the specialties, they're coming in because they assisted the united states during this 20-year war, totally makes sense. is there more to it, the difference between these two approaches? >> let me just say this, that

haitians have been the victims of, you know, not only our country, but canada, france, for years, historically. they're black, they're poor. it's the poorest country in the hemisphere. they have been exploited. and it continues all the time. they are not -- it does not appear that they are seen in the same way that they see others. haitians have been the victims because they were the first country to fight off, you know, the repression of france. and of course france has made them pay a big price for it. yes, i think they're treated differently because they're black, because they're haitians, and because traditionally they have not been treated as human beings. >> the point was made on my broadcast yesterday from one of your colleagues who suggested that we have an employment issue in this country. we can't fill so many of the jobs that are there, and that a lot of these haitians, they

speak english, they speak french, they speak creole, they speak spanish, any number of a broad-based way of communicating, and they want to work. do you agree that something should be done to allow for some sort of a funnel through which they could get some training and get out there in the job market and take those jobs that others apparently don't want to take? >> well, i think you're absolutely correct. the first thing we must understand is, haitians are very hard workers. if you ever go to haiti and you see people toiling day in and day out with very little, you understand that they're surviving, that they're willing to do the work. and so yes, i think it would be important for us to understand that. as a matter of fact, we talk that way about the agricultural interests and we talk about those who can come in and work in the fields in jobs that they say others don't want. but we don't speak about haitians like that at all.

yes, haitians would come here readily, work hard, and do a good job and be good citizens. i do believe that that could be possible. and it should be possible. >> let's move on to talking about the spending bills the democrats are certainly working hard to pass. house democrats will be huddling tomorrow evening at 5:30 p.m. can you share what topic "a" should be at this meeting in your mind and how critical it could be to getting the president's agenda passed this week? >> well, first of all, let's just say that the president has provided wonderful leadership in build back better. and i think this country really does need to build back better. we have a lot of things to correct. we need to move forward on health care and education and housing and climate change and all of these issues that are tied up in the reconciliation bill. we need both that bill and the infrastructure bill. and democrats are basically

together. while of course, you know, there's some leveraging going on, and there are those who would like to have it their way, nancy pelosi is a fabulous leader. the president is talking with all of the so-called factions. and in the final analysis, democrats are going to be together. we're going to get a reconciliation bill. and we're going to get an infrastructure bill. i am confident of that. >> do you think the infrastructure bill, the vote will be held tomorrow? >> i don't know if it will be held tomorrow. i see that you showed nancy pelosi basically talking about not bringing a bill to the floor unless we've got the votes. but she's the best counter that i've ever seen, and so i do believe we will get the vote. i don't know whether it will be on monday or it will be delayed. but we'll get there. >> okay. what about the possibility of a government shutdown this week? as you know, the senate is set to take up the house-passed bill to avoid the shutdown and suspend the nation's borrowing

limit but no republicans are expected to vote for it. how does this week end without a shutdown? >> well, first of all, despite all of the posturing, i don't believe that republicans can make this country believe that a shutdown would be caused by democrats. they're going to have to relent and they're going to have to join with us in making sure that we do not shut this country down. our workers must be paid, our debts must be paid, and we've got to move forward and end this covid that we're confronted with. we can't afford to shut this country down. so again, i am extraordinarily optimistic that we are going to work it out, that the republicans are going to have to come to the table and they're going to have to agree that we can maybe, you know, have a -- well, we can have a continuing resolution that we've already voted for until the end of december, and then we can

basically delay the whole business of whether or not we're going to raise the ceiling until next year, in 2022. >> so i appreciate your optimism, congresswoman maxine waters. i hope you're able to carry it through this entire week because i know it will be a challenging week ahead. thank you so much for your time, good to see you. we're following the breaking news from montana. tragedy on the tracks, after an amtrak train runs off the rails, killing three people and hurting dozens more. that derailment happened near joplin, montana yesterday afternoon. what do we know so far about this derailment and the investigation? >> reporter: alex, at this hour new details are emerging from survivors. they've been telling local reporters, for instance, that people who were injured in the crash in fact had to be cut free from the wreckage. it just goes to show how violent

and intense it is when a train goes off the track. as you know, this took place around 3:00 p.m. local time yesterday, on an extraordinarily beautiful day, on a very straight line of track. that will probably lead investigators to look at causes other than the idea that one was going perhaps too fast on a curve which has of course been the cause of past derailments. so in this case, as one ntsb former board member, kitty higgins, told us, i know you've spoken to her earlier in the day as well, she said it will probably be necessary to look more closely at where the train cars connected to the rail, that it's very unusual for the engines to have remained on the track while the cars came off behind them. again, a beautiful day and not a cloud in the sky, and yet this thing came off. at this hour we're also of course wondering about the fate of all of these survivors who are stranded in a pretty remote part of montana. they spent the night, those who could make it on their own power, in a high school gym. others had to be flown on

multiple helicopter flights because, again, this is such a remote part of montana, they had to travel a long way to get the medical help they needed, alex. >> let me ask you about the derailment. one said it felt like extreme turbulence on an airplane. have you heard anything else from survivors about the experience? >> reporter: certainly, just the sheer violence of it is what comes up again and again, people have to help each other off the train, having to cut away sections of the seats in order to get people out. all of that speaks to why we use the euphemism a train wreck for a terrible disaster, because the extraordinary power of in this case a two-engine train coming off the tracks just means it was -- you know, the people on that train suffered forces that you and i probably can't imagine, alex. >> thank you so much, jake ward, good to see you. there is a looming showdown over the white house records on the attack on the capitol. how far can donald trump go to

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he does not want to do depositions. right now i'm in a lawsuit against the trump organization. i have asked for depositions of donald. they are adamant that they do not want him to sit for depositions because he doesn't know what he's talking about. even if in fact it deals with him, he is absolutely clueless and he lies so much, he doesn't even remember the lies that he told yesterday. >> that indeed michael cohen, donald trump's former lawyer, on my show yesterday advising mary trump and "the new york times" to fight trump's $100 million lawsuit. joining me now, glenn kirchner, former federal prosecutor, and melissa murray, nyu law professor and msnbc contributor. welcome to you both. listen to michael cohen there,

glenn, is that the easiest way to win this lawsuit, get trump on the record in depositions? >> yeah, perhaps threaten that donald trump will have to sit in a deposition. i think he would be hard-pressed after the first question, "please state your name," to sort of answer truthfully any other question moving forward, if he was grilled by a skilled examiner. so, you know, it looks like this is donald trump weaponizing civil lawsuits. and i don't think it sort of escaped us that about 24 hours after we learned there may be more indictments coming in the new york district attorney prosecution of the trump organization and allen weisselberg, 24 hours later donald trump files a $100 million lawsuit against his niece. this to me feels like a tactic, it feels like a distraction more than anything else. >> yeah, thus the small eye roll

you expressed there as you were talking about this. melissa, to you, trump claims his niece conspired with "the times" to get his tax returns for that pulitzer prize winning story, adding that "the times" got mary to get the tax returns. >> the crux of the lawsuit comes down to whether or not mary trump and her uncle had some kind of nondisclosure agreement related to the settlement of a lawsuit mary trump had filed against the family about the disposition of fred trump's estate. if it turns out this broad settlement agreement includes the nondisclosure of the financial records that were then released to "the times," he may very well have a case. the crux is if that mary trump can establish that the nondisclosure agreement was asking her to conceal criminal

activity, she could have a real defense, because agreements that go to cover up criminal activity are against public policy in most states and will not be enforced. so a lot of this really depends on the broad language of that agreement and how it's interpreted by a court. >> i'm so glad you phrased that way, it does explain the pros and cons of the agreement they may have established. what about, glenn, the legal pickle that trump is navigating today, fighting to keep his actions on january 6 a secret. he says he'll fight congressional subpoenas on the grounds of executive privilege. >> we take this matter incredibly seriously. the president has already concluded that it would not be appropriate to assert executive privilege. and so we will respond promptly to these questions as they arise. and certainly as they come up from congress. and certainly we have been working closely with congressional committees and others as they work to get to the bottom of what happened on

january 6, an incredibly dark day in our democracy. >> trump is no longer the executive. so is he still entitled to the privilege? >> you know, by and large the executive privilege is held by the current president, joe biden. and he will ordinarily have the last word. i will say, alex, there may be some minimal wiggle room for donald trump to try to file suit and assert executive privilege as a former president. that would almost certainly be a losing suit if he wanted to fight that battle. and let me pick up on what professor murray was saying. there is also a crime fraud exception. so if donald trump is trying to assert even a weak executive privilege, to try to keep the lid on his own misconduct in connection with the run-up to and the execution of the attack on the capitol of january 6, i don't think there's a court in the world that would allow him to deploy even a robust privilege to try to cover up his own wrongdoing. that's sort of a classic crime

fraud exception to any number of privileges. >> so we have president biden, melissa, who seems to be effectively then ready to throw donald trump under the bus, to the extent that he is able to free up records related to trump's members of his inner circle, the former members, we should say. has this ever been tested and what are the risks for future presidents if this gets green lit? >> it's a terrific question, alex. as it suggests, it's generally in the interests of presidents to defend executive privilege to the tooth because this is obviously something that even president biden may want to invoke in the future. but here, president biden is somewhat in a difficult situation. there is so much bad feeling around the insurrection, if he were to allow these materials to be withheld using executive privilege as a tool for doing so, i think he would have a hard

time keeping those democrats on his side as he tries to push his domestic agenda through congress. that's one issue he has to keep in mind. the other thing is, this is definitely information the american people is interested in. so even though there is a broad interest in the president to ensure some information is kept confidential, there may be some interest in releasing it. >> glenn, why is steve bannon critical for appearance in front of the house committee? >> in the book "peril" it says that he said "it's time to kill the biden presidency in the crib." that to me sounds like the talk of sedition, rebellion, insurrection. i think there will be lots of

legal wrangling, alex, that now goes on now that bannon and others have been subpoenaed by the house select committee. i have a feeling at the end of the day, even if they successfully get steve bannon sitting in the witness chair, appearing before the house select committee, any attorney worth his or her salt would probably advise him, you better invoke your fifth amendment right against self-incrimination for those potentially seditious statements you made and for other conduct. >> that would not be unexpected, that's for sure. thanks so much for your expertise, you guys, appreciate it. so they're no longer at the border, but where did all those haitian migrants go? we'll head to the border, next. which to his bladder, feels like a mile. yet he stands strong, dry, keeping the leaks only to his eyes. depend. the only thing stronger than us, is you. is mealtime a struggle? introducing ore-ida potato pay. where ore-ida golden crinkles are your crispy currency

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growing fallout today from that sudden might go rand crisis at the southern border. the crossing in del rio, texas is reopened right now. the camp has been cleared. but more than 12,000 haitians are in the u.s.

they're awaiting immigration hearings. this morning, dhs secretary told nbc's chuck todd u.s. laws need to change. >> i think we meet the challenges but we're working in a completely broken system. and as to that, there is unanimity in washington and in the country. i've never heard anyone say that the laws in immigration are well-structured. >> nbc's guad venegas is in del rio today. >> reporter: alex, this was something that was needed, the mayor of del rio was saying they were losing $35 million a day in del rio, that's the economic impact when you shut down a border bridge like this one, then you also have the impact on the southern side. we were here yesterday when families lined up hundreds of vehicles ready to cross into mexico for the first time. this is what one of the families

had to say. >> i had to go to a doctor's. so if i go over here, one of the medicines i take is going to cost like $500, so i had to go over there in mexico, and it's going to be cheaper than here. most of my family lives over there, that's the other thing. >> reporter: one of the main reasons why citizens have to cross into mexico is of course the medical care or medicines. and going back to the number of haitians that you mentioned, 12,000 are now in the country, these migrants will be able to remain in the country as they argue the asylum they seek. they'll have to go in front of an immigration judge. these are people staying in shelters with sponsors or family members. we should note that they could still be deported if they aren't granted asylum in the united states. and another thing to note here is the number we all suspected, mayorkas spoke at a press conference on friday and said

they did receive about 30,000 migrants since september 9 here at the border. of those 30,000, we have these 12,000 that made it into the country, and are waiting for these hearings. he mentioned 5,000 were being processed as of friday at different processing centers, cbp processing centers. then there's the 8,000 that voluntarily returned to mexico because they didn't want to get on these deportation flights. we also know at least 2,000 haitians were returned to the island. so we do have a number of different haitians in different situations. we have to look at all the pieces to this puzzle, alex. >> absolutely, it's a very complicated puzzle indeed. thank you so much, guad venegas. the massive manhunt for brian laundrie has entered in a second week in a florida swamp. drones and bloodhounds have been

brought out to search for gabby petito's fiance. there is a growing memorial for gabby petito who is being laid to rest today. stephanie, a couple of rewards totaling $30,000 being offered for tips leading to laundrie's whereabouts. are you hearing about any solid leads being generated by this? >> reporter: i can tell you this, alex, those rewards are generating interest from at least one celebrity bounty hunter. dwayne chapman, also known as dog the bounty hunter was spotted knocking on the door of the laundrie family home. no one answered. a crush of media approached him and asked him if he's doing this for publicity. he balked at the question, said no, he doesn't need the publicity, he's on national tv almost every day. those rewards are being put up by a tampa area law firm,

another $10,000 by a man claiming to be a neighbor of the petito family in new york. as for the search, let me bring you up to speed on that. search and rescue teams have been in the carlton reserve in venice, florida, for the past week searching that 25,000 acre refuge. they've been bringing out the heavy equipment but so far there has been no sign of brian laundrie. authorities were led there essentially by the family who said he went out for a hike on september 14 and hasn't been seen since. i want to bring you back out live here, alex, to this particular memorial. this is just outside north port city hall. i want to show you, because we are seeing people stopping by here all day long. this is a growing memorial for gabby petito. we are seeing flowers, cards, balloons. there are also several butterflies here. we know that she posted that beautiful picture of herself on instagram on august 25, it was

the final instagram post of course before she disappeared. and alex, while all of this is happening here in florida, we understand that gabby petito's funeral is going on in new york. >> indeed it is, okay, stephanie stanton, thank you so much. donald trump may have talked about his love for wikileaks. but we're learning the cia did not share those feelings. a brand-new investigative report suggests the cia plotted to kidnap julian assange. that's just one of the extreme measures. i'm going to talk with michael isikoff, one of the journalists behind this report, after a short break. r a short break. hey lily, i need a new wireless plan for my business, but all my employees need something different. oh, we can help with that. okay, imagine this... your mover, rob, he's on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot. we cut to downtown, your sales rep lisa has to send some files, like asap! so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee... yeah i should've just led with that... with at&t business, you can pick the best plan for each employee

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wikileaks walks like a hostile intelligence service and talks like a hostile intelligence service. and it's encouraged its followers to find jobs at the cia in order to obtain intelligence. it's time to call out wikileaks for what it really is. a non-state hostile intelligence service often abetted by state actors like russia. >> that was mike pompeo in his very first speech as cia director in 2017. yahoo! news is shining light on a campaign directed against wikileaks and its founder julian assange. when assange was in the ecuador

embassy in london, there was discussion in the cia about kidnapping or killing assange, according to three former officials. these discussions sparked a heated debate among trump administration officials over the legality and practicality of such an operation. yahoo! news' investigation is based on conversations with more than 30 former u.s. officials. the cia declined to comment to yahoo! and pompeo did not respond to their requests for comment. the cia declined to comment to nbc news. we are also reaching out to mike pompeo. joining me now is a co-author of that report, michael isikoff, chief investigative correspondent for yahoo! news. this is a big one, michael, as i welcome you. let's talk about julian assange, who had been on the radar of u.s. intelligence agencies for years. what sparked these plans for literally an all-out war against him? >> right, right. you know, assange and wikileaks

got a lot of attention after the 2016 election when it was revealed, you know, their role in getting emails that were hacked by russian intelligence and then were being published by wikileaks to damage the hillary clinton campaign. although that was viewed as quite serious and alarming by many top officials in the then-obama administration, mike pompeo, when he comes in as cia director, was not all that alarmed about what the russians had done in using wikileaks during 2016. but then, early in his tenure, wikileaks starts publishing these very sensitive hacking tools known as vault 7, details of some of the vault 7 hacking tools, and pompeo is infuriated. this is highly embarrassing to him, it's happened on his watch.

the cia's, some of the cia's most sensitive secrets had been leaked to wikileaks. and he mounts this unprecedented war on wikileaks, demanding all sorts of options from abductions and other actions, stealing the computers of wikileaks' associates, monitoring their communications, all sorts of very extreme measures. i was at that speech that you just showed in early 2017, when pompeo referred to wikileaks as a nonstate hostile intelligence service. at the time i think most of us thought it was some kind of provocative talking point by assange. in fact that was the designation the agency used to mount what it refers to, and all this is laid out in the piece, as offensive counterintelligence activities in which they could do things, treat wikileaks as a hostile intelligence service, that did not have to rely on presidential

findings or briefings to capitol hill. >> but let me ask you, according to your reporting, what kind of debates took place over the legality of these plots? cia and doj, were they on the same page on any of this? >> yeah, you know, this is one where the trump white house lawyers were raising all sorts of concerns, that the agency was going way beyond what would be legally authorized. remember, at this point when all these plans are being drawn up, there's no indictment of julian assange. even though he had been under investigation for years going back to the publication of the 2010 state department cables, at the time that the agency was considering abducting him, a snatch operation, where would they take him? there was no -- he wasn't being prosecuted. at that point in the united states. what it did do, what pompeo's

extreme measures or plans did do is spur the white house to get the justice department to begin accelerating its efforts to bring a criminal case against assange, so if he was rendered, which is what the cia wanted to do, there would be a legal process that he could face. >> according to reporting, had they figured out what to do with him then once they got ahold of him? >> well, if he was under indictment, then they could, you know, throw him in jail and prosecute him in a court of law. the problem is that much of the time period when all these extreme measures were being debated, there was no indictment. >> so former president donald trump used to boast of his love of wikileaks. >> "i love wikileaks." >> exactly, right before the election, all the emails leaked from hillary clinton's campaign. according to your reporting, was this all happening right under

his nose? is there any indication that these most extreme measures targeting assange were ever shared with or approved by then-president trump? >> it is a little unclear exactly what went to the president. there is some reporting that we cite where this is raised with the president. initially, this is kind of a fascinating tidbit, pompeo didn't even want to brief trump on the vault 7 data loss. >> why? >> he was embarrassed by it, he didn't want to have to tell the president of the united states that his agency had screwed up in some way. but he was told, no, this is too important, you've got to brief him. and then trump's reaction, you know, he's always been ambivalent about wikileaks. on the one hand, you know, he liked what wikileaks did during the 2016 election. on the other hand, he's got his cia director telling him, you know, they are doing some really

damaging stuff. how involved trump is, it's a little unclear. but look at the quotes we got from trump for this piece. you know, he denies -- we had one source who said the idea of assassinating assange did come up with trump, and he asked could it be done. he denies that. but then he says some nice things about wikileaks, even after all this. he says they're being treated unfairly. so julian assange and wikileaks got a boost today from, of all people, donald trump. >> let me have my director steve put up the graphic we have of that one headline relative to london. kidnapping, assassination, and a london shootout. then it goes on to the title. the london part of this, i expressed to you during the commercial, was like something straight out of a james bond or even better a jason bourne film, right? >> exactly. >> you have everybody looking at

this guy. what was that about, what was russia's involvement, allies' involvement? >> in early 2017, the whole vault 7 leak blows up. that's when the cia begins these aggressive plans and debates about how far they can go. then, later on that year the ci and u.s. intelligence officials get information they view as credible that assauge is planning to break out of the ecuadorian embassy with russian help and that russian operatives were going to spirit him away, put him on a plane, and fly him off to moscow. at that point this goes to the highest levels of the trump white house and there active planning to thwart any russian operation intelligence operatives are placed all over lion. there are floons shoot the tires of anne airplane if it has assauge on it, use helicopters to force the airplane to land, and thwart russian operatives if

they are spiriting him out. there was even some information they had that he might try to break out in a lawnary cart and then the russian fsb or the operatives would take him to the plane. there was concerns about an active shoot out on the streets of london. that was briefed to trump. he was told this could get ugly. >> i don't even know where to begin to try to wrap this up so i guess i'm not going to other than tell people they really should read this article. it is a fascinating read. anybody who is interested in spy craft or secrets and all that kind of thing, michael, it is extraordinary, a deep dive. i thank you for coming on. i want to remine our viewers that nbc news has not independently confirmed michael and his two colleagues over all yahoo's reporting but nonetheless we appreciate you sharing what you do have with us michael. thanks so much. >> any time. much >> any time. are the things america makes out here. the history she writes in her clear blue skies.

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party. let's go to nbc's matt bradley monitoring this from berlin. welcome to you. walk us through the election and where the results stan right now. do you have exit polling? >> reporter: yes. exit polling just came out. the polls just closed a couple hours ago. what we are seeing so far is about a quarter of the votes going toward the cdu. the party of the outgoing chancer who has been in power. the other party also appears to be in poll position to form a coalition. whatever happens here it is going to have to be a coalition. that is how german politics is run and how it's been run almost entirely since then of world war ii. that means this is going to be a consensus or almost consensus driven governance system. you could read this as one of the most indecisive election

results so far in recent german memory. one reason for that is because all of the main parties who were leading especially the two i just mentioned were trying their best in an almost embarrassingly ingratiatingly way to style themselves as almost identical to angela merkel in terms of policy and ideology. this is a country that has demonstrated at the polls today that they want nothing more than continuity. they want to see angela merkel's 16-year reign over this country continue. again, these results are not definitive because we'll see a coalition forming probably out of two different parties. normally it would be two but probably three this time which means everything will look very similar in terms of policy and ideology to what it was before. the environment and climate change, those did play a really important role in these

elections. we saw that in results from surveys of the public in terms of what they were concerned about that didn't necessarily show up so prominently in the election result. the far left green party, who really made climate change a central part of their platform, they did gain about 6%. you know, alex, what is really interesting here, the big change is that germans went to the polls with climate change at the forefront of their minds. this was an election that saw climate change not as just an abstract global sort of foreign policy issue. climate change today for germans was a bread and butter issue. i think that is something we'll start to see spreading throughout the western world. >> amen to that. they had some horrific flooding to deal with recently, so lessons learned, opening their eyes looking at the world around them. thank you so much for that very concise and comprehensive