. good day, this is andrea mitchell reports in new york. nancy pelosi is working to bring her caucus together also, at stake, two would-be deadlooips. a government shut down tomorrow night and worst case a failure to raise the government's debt ceiling. that comes from secretary janet yellin about the government defaulting and the potential financial disaster 19 days from now. >> we must address it issue to honor commitments made by this and prior congresss including the them from the economic pandemic. it's necessary to avert a catastrophic event for our economy. >> today house speaker nancy pelosi trying to hold

progressives feet to the fire despite their vote for a spending trillions on social priorities. >> i'm going to speak for them and i think they spoke beautifully for the priorities that we have in the bill, but because we're at the mercy of the senate and it's customs and it's parliamentarian and rules, we can't bring something to the rule without the approval of the parliamentarian. >> you're not ruling out possible he will delaying the vote tomorrow? >> i said we will have the vote tomorrow. i think we'll have a vote tomorrow she said. kristin sinema and senator manchin are holding the cards. and i will have two big

interviews this hour, dr. anthony fauci joining me for the latest on boosters and covid cases. plus cases in the nba. and also bob woodward for the talk that his new book is causing on capitol hill. first, garrett haake, peter alexander. moderator of "washington week," and ashley parker. garrett, there is so much in the air this hour. nancy pelosi to me looked a little tentative to me like "this is not a done deal." >> oh, it is clear that this is far from a done deal. i spent a lot of time talking to house progressives saying they're right where they have been the whole time on this. they don't want to move forward on the infrastructure vote until they get at least a serious

assurance that the senate will move on reconciliation. they're trying clearly to get to yes. but they're getting nothing back from the senate, and they're increasingly frustrated at joe manchin and kristin sinema. talking about the things they want to be different in this bill. i tried to talk to joe manchin about this and about that sense of frustration that i'm hearing back from progressives. listen to what he told me. >> there is so much in so many ways, with the energy, why -- and move on and negotiate -- >> progressives don't trust you, sir, that you will be with them on the reconciliation bill. >> i trust them on negotiating in good faith. >> you see the problem here, it's a good old fashioned stand

off. this is why the president's involvement will be so important. they seem to have taken the position that that is the only person they're willing to negotiate with so the involvement of president biden will be key to seeing if that key thursday vote happens or if it gets pushed yet again. >> and with growing frustration on the house side with the president. this morning a congressman was talking about how he has to get tougher. kristin sinema is going back to the white house today and the president has not gotten a top line from her for what she actually wants. that is extraordinary, a freshman senator saying no repeatedly. >> i think you're exactly right. there was indications she would be coming here to the white house. now i'm hearing that white house staff instead will be going to capitol hill and meeting with

sinema at some point today. the president just left a short time ago to go to a funeral taking place for the former first lady of indiana. so the white house insists they remain optimistic about this. it is unclear what progress has been made here. the white house insists that the reason he postponed a scheduled trip to chicago today was to really try to reengage, continue engaging with these individuals, and ultimately it will be to try to pin down sinema and manchin. without a sense of their top line they can't go any further to get the progressives on board with even a commitment to what this plan, the build back better plan is dubbed, and what it will look like now. some other things is how the next 24 hours playout here. a congressional baseball game is scheduled to take place. this is traditionally a bipartisan effort where democrats and republicans get

together. it could be a moment where the president, if he so chose, went this evening. this is a lot of pressure on the president who is trying to draw this out just a little bit saying it may not happen before the end of the week. some things have to happen immediately. the infrastructure bill is connected to these. they are scheduled for tomorrow and the president as it relates to the debt ceiling, the needs to up that and the nation's essentially credit card limit, and the broader plan is one that may take more massaging, but how much time does he get to try? >> you have been watching this president for so long, and he was campaigning as the ultimate negotiator. the guy who the congress knows best. all of the attribute that's have been placed at the feet of joe biden, the moderator who can bring people together, what is happening here? going to the hill as peter just

reported instead of sinema coming to him, canceling a trip to chicago today? that this is a very different cycle. >> this is a very different play book and this is a ultimate test of president biden and his ability to bring his party together as you just said, andrea. he ran on this idea that he was an elder statesman that could work across the aisle and bring people together, that could leverage his decades in government to make transformational change. and now here he is being put to the test. and it is a sign of urgency that he decided to postpone this trip, he is supposed to be talking to companies that have vaccine mandates, and now he is here supposed to be meeting with senator sinema today, i'll told. the white house staff is always supposed to be meeting with her.

from my understanding is the president is going in and saying what can we do to get on the same page with you. and senator sinema is closer to a yes than senator manchin i'm understanding. and lawmakers are saying you're the closer, you need to get this done, but as of now he is not getting it done. the president understands that this is really his agenda on the line, and these are going to be a really tough and intense few hours in the next 24 to 36 hours and it could make or break the agenda. the president is fully engaged to make sure they're on the same page. >> a closer in baseball or a closer in congress, you have to really get it done. and with a lot of the house members saying now that joe biden can't be asking what can i do for you? the president has to be saying to her, i'm your president,

you're about to take down my presidency, and you have to get in line. >> that is right, you're hearing increasingly from frustrated law lawmakers they would like the president to say this is what i need, what i want, how it needs to be done and you need to get on board. people on the white house believe that president biden was on the other side of this for decades. he was a senator and he did not like being told by presidents, democrats or republicans, my way or the highway. so he is trying to take into account those sensitivities and be a negotiator, but as the clock ticks down there is more of a push on the hill for him to be less of a negotiator and to say this is my agenda, my presidency, and it really trickles down, this is what

needs to happen, so let's do it. the spth going to the memorial service for susan bach. he was a senator, his father was a senator before him, and the governor, and father before that, so i want to say, peter, that this is joe biden is joining fellow members of congress and senators here in the prime of life. >> this is a president who in in ways came to office at a time

when he was part of the loss. here the president is being joined by the national staff. they arrived a matter of homes ago and this is a president that has done bipartisan acts over the court of this presidency already. stopping in to see former senator bob dole in washington a matter of mondays ago. his health as waiped in the course of representative years. so joe biden using this to be part of the part of the community. that is another thing that will pull at the president's heart strings. thank you all. as we continue with our coverage of what is happening, the top military brass working.

bob woodward will be joining us with his testimony on the hill today. you're watching andrea mitchell reports today. you're watching andrea mitchell reports today. or power, we can harness the energy of the tiny electron. we can create new ways to connect. rethinking how we communicate to be more inclusive than ever. with app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps companies navigate change. faster. vmware. welcome change.

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>> the country's military commanders are back on hill today. they are testifying about the chaotic withdrawal from afghanistan. they are coming under fire about the president's plan to withdrawal u.s. forces from afghanistan. >> isn't it true that the president rejected your best military opinion and advice as to how quickly to withdrawal troops from afghanistan? >> it is a level that would have

allowed us to hold airfields as well. once you make a decision to go to zero it is no longer feasible to hold bagram. courtney, first of all, what is the reaction from the military community about the way they have been questioned and the disagreement laid bare. it is brutal honesty. >> that's right, so a lot of this has been reported in the media as you well know. there has been reports since president biden make his decision and announcement in april. there have been a number of reports by unnamed officials that many of the military leaders including secretary austin, chairman of the joint chiefs, recommended to keep a u.s. military press in afghanistan beyond the deadline. the self-imposed deadline. but for the first time yesterday

we heard from these players and from general frank mckenzie. and an acknowledgement that that was their recommend. that is very uncommon. it is unusual for a sitle member of the military, particularly with someone with four stars, to openly dispute a decision or acknowledge that they disputed a decision that the president or the commander and chief made. what i will say is that to a person when they have been questioned about it and they have taken more questioning about that today, people have really followed along in the same line of questioning today, to a person they said look, president biden heard our views. he listened to them, he asked questions, but he made his decision and he is the commander and chief. it is civilian control of the military and we followed our orders from that. it is less about the second guessing and more about the

acknowledgment that it was not the advice that they provided to him. we're hearing more about that including literally right now about general milley talking to authors about books. >> i will always keep my recommendations to the president confidential, but i would say that in my view, there was, there is no, there was no risk-free status quo option. while it is conceivable that you could stay there, my view is that you would have had to deploy more forces to protect ourselves and to accomplish any missions we would have been assigned. it is also my view that the best way to end this war is through a negotiated settlement and sadly that did not happen.

>> general mckaf ri, what is your reaction to the defense secretary? and of course in the military commanders? >> straightforward, accurate, both president trump and biden made decisions to withdrawal completely and almost immediately. the doha agreement clearly sent the afghanistan government on the road to collapse. the only surprise was that it happened to rapidly. once you go below 2500 troops you no longer have a sustainable presence. so i think we ought to be thankful, no invasion, straightforward, and at the same time there is an acknowledgment that president biden ran for office on this platform and then executed it. and he apparently was willing to live with the probable outcome of chaos and civil war in the

country. >> at the same time i'm wondering about the political fallout for this. the fact that the military contradicted what was told to the president on august 18th. >> they did not tell you no? we should keep 2500 troops? it's been stable and we can do that and continue to do that? >> no, no one said that to me that i can recall. >> so, general mccaffery, his stock and trade was that you can trust him, he won't lie to you, and guys with four stars on their shoulders saying, you know, we today him. we advised him. he listened, he knew what we were advising, but he is the commander in chief. >> yeah, well, i understand i

think president biden misspoke. it isn't that important. he made a decision to leave afghanistan. there was nearly zero options. on the 31st of augusts it was going to start up again. so i can't under score enough that i think president biden made a legitimate political decision to terminate the war and unfortunately he now has to live with the outcome that has been chaos and terror. that was easily a consequence. here we are, the dispute between the two yun formed offices and secretary austin and the president is minimal.

>> courtney kube, thank you so much. and thank you general mccaffery. joining us now is bob woodward who has a new book out. his latest book kors two administrations. it looks at donald trump's chaotic last year in office, the debate in the white house, and it is coauthored with robert costa. congratulations, it is the hottest book in town. as smp that knows the military so well, what is your reaction to the general's publicly contradicting the president?

>> we have done some reporting on this, and the positions are not fixed. they may make a recommendation, they may change it, the circumstances might really be different when they got down to 3500 droops, which is very small, they realized biden, and i think most of the people realized that you don't have leverage with the taliban at that point. so you know, it is a simplistic view of this. i said this, it changed based on our reporting and we have three chapters on the afghan war and withdrawal. so i'm not sure, you know, someone will have to piece

together what happened on wednesday and thursday and this day because as we report there was 25 national security council meetings or one on one meetings or small group meetings that biden had on this and definitely people would take a position and it would shift. and there was a general view, as we reported in our book, he said just because the general recommends it, doesn't make it right. and he argued to senior staff and said the president has a wider view on this. and obviously it is the president's job to make the final decision so i would agree with general mckaf ri. i think there is not a whole lot here, but i think the cig kaps

issue is significance of the hearings is they're being very candid and open. some of them are saying it was a failure. and i expect that it will be a brutal examination of this process. >> i take what you're saying, you're saying it was a continuum as you opponent out in three chapters. there was recommendations, different options, din analysis from the cia as to what would actually come about, and we're looking at it now in a very bare bones way that a congress that nearing evolves and the

generals, to their credit, are being very honest about what their bottom lines were. you write that president biden was addiment about not sending more troops in seeing our mission is to stop afghanistan for being a base for attacking the homeland by al qaeda or other terrorist groups. a lot of the reporting now is that nehr not fully illuminating afghanistan from becoming a base. and it could be reconstituted in a year and he has not accomplished that mission. >> yes, it is a very fluid

situation here. when we lay out in the book the worst case scenarios that were presented to president biden about what could happen, they were pretty bleak and quite frankly most of them have happened already, sooner than expected. and you always have to look at the intelligence on this. we lay it out for those situations and i think as general milley said, no one expected this to collapse in 11 days. it clearly did. the situation is altered and you used the right word, fluid, but it is a fluid problem and if there is some sort of terrorist operations from afghanistan, anywhere against our allies or the homeland, there is going to

be much more brutal exam in addition -- examination of this process. among the problems that president biden has, is where is this going? we talk about this over the horizon capability. it is mushy as military people know on the ground where you can be at the scene and you have much better intelligence about what is going on and so forth. so add this to the list of problems and it could become a catastrophe. >> having groups on the ground is very important as we have seen already. i want to talk about president trump, a point that lindsey graham said that the claims

about election fraud belonged in "third grade." are you surprised in a whole on the influence that trump has over house republicans. >> what we were able to do, we had months and we got the mem ran dumb that rudy giuliani sent to lindsey gram and the memo that this lawyer john eastman in the white house who was working for senator lee, they were investigating this. they were not going to just assume it was or wasn't. they sat on the phone for days

calling people in these states trying to see if there was alternative electors. there were not. this whole thing, here, two real bedrock trump supporters, they were looking to see okay, maybe there is something here, and this election fraud allegation, the stolen election claim, it is no evidence. i -- we spent a lot of time looking at this and came up with the memos and it shows that the bedrock supporters said no, nothing. and they did the audit in arizona, and it turned out more votes for biden.

so this is, i think, important in the political environment we're in because president trump is throughout still claiming the stolen election. in fact, he is making the rational for perhaps his future candidacy in 2024 well they stole in in 2020 so i how would get it back in 2024? that really does not make sense. except for what you say, you have tens of millions of trump supporters, people who believe the election was stolen. you and i have known each other for a long time. bob costa and i don't carry any partisan water on this. we look at the facts and and we

looked hard and this is a bogus claim. >> i have known you and robert costa a long time and this is the larger picture, this is the peril that we still pace. >> actually the title is from biden's inaugural address. he said we're in a winter of peril nap is turning tout be an under statement. >> i'm just saying the peril of what lies ahead, the peril of

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as we move into the fall, many areas of the country that became covid hot spots have started to see sop some improve. joining me now, the man that can answer all of these questions, dr. anthony fauci, the chief medical advisor to president biden. thank you for joining us. i want to start with the boosters. there has been confusion. there is a new report about the moderna. the fda may authorize a half dose of the vaccine as a booster for recipients on the two-dose regimen. does that mean anyone going

rouge getting a third full dose of moderna is dangerous? is a half dose the right amount? >> the fda will make a final decision on that. looking at the data to the fda. >> what is your medical advice, not procolluding what fda may say, but is there warping signs of the third dose of the whole shot? >>. >> no, it is advisable to wait until you get fda approval to have the boost match the original vaccine. we don't anticipate the people that have gone ahead and done it on their own, that since they got the full dose that there is any reason to believe there is an issue of safety with it.

however we do recommend people that will have gotten the moderna, it will be relatively soon. they will make a determination for the safety and efficacy it for the response of the individuals. they should know that they are really quite protected. we are talking about booters to go for the durability of the response to last over a longer period of time. so wait until what the fda comes outs with. >> what is the difference between a half dose and a full sdmoes medically? >> you know what? i'm glad you asked that. it is a potential and real source of confusion that does not need to be. if you look at the dose of moderna, it was about three times the dose that pfizer mrna.

so what they were trying to determine is could they get a similar effect by going down on the dose. studies have been done with both the 100 milligram dose as well as the half dose, sorry, microgram. 1000 micrograms opposed to a half dose. they will make that determination. the fda will do what they do very well and when they cop out with their authorization for the appropriate dose, that is what should be followed. i don't see any issue of safety there. >> in terms of the virus, yesterday you said we were turning the corner a little bit. and the numbers bear that out. the average number of cases have fallen 30%.

unlike last fall and winter we have 55 pakistan of the population fully vaccinated. do you see us approaching the end of the fight? >> the word potentially is the critical word. we have in our power to be able to to do that. it looks like there is a trnd down in both cases and hospital sdpags. there is a lagging indicator of deaths. i would assume that if things go the way we have seen with other surge social security that soon ewe see the deaths go down. the problem is that we're entering the cooler fall season and we're entering a situation where children are coming back to school. there will be more activity in the fall and we have to do whatever we can to get those 70 or so million people to who are eligible to be vaccinated. we have to get them to be vaccinated through their trusted

messages. why it is port for their own health. for that of their families, and also something that we continue to emphasize. the responsibility to get that veil of protection over society. so everyone that gets vaccinated not only breaks themselves and their family, but they're part of the solution to society. so i think we cannot only just turn the corner because we can go way down. it is up to us if is a very important situation of what we have in our grasp, the capability to do that and we need to do that. >> the cdc is out with the strongest warning today for pregnant women to get the vaccine. tell us why this is so critical and what the dangers you see are for pregnant women and women about to become pregnant or trying to get public who are afraid to get vaccinated.

>> there are so many good reason yst it is important for pregnant women to get vaccinated. the impact of the covid-19 disease on pregnancy can be profound in a negative way. on the woman who is pregnant herself, at high risk for a severe outcome of covid for her. the negative impact on the fetus is also very clear right now. we have tens and tens of millions of women who are vaccinated when they were pregnant. who vaccinated before they got pregnant and had no negative impact on the pregnancy. what we need to do is to make sure we protect women and protect their unborn child. the vaccine is safe in women who want to get pregnant and are pregnant. the data are very, very clear. what we don't want to do is see

women who are hesitant to get vaccinated when they're pregnant and have a negative kbak on their pregnancy. you can protect yourself, your pregnancy, and your fetus by getting vaccinated. >> also there is the children and when 5 to 12-year-olds could get vaccinated. they may not be available until november. we have been talking about how november is not that far away, but does that sound right to you? >> well, you want to give the fda the time to do what they do very well. to examine the safety. and come out with a determination that we can feel very comfortable with. we were hoping that would be by halloween, but if it fills over, that is the necessary amount of

time that the fda needs. they're working 24 service to get the service out. >> i want to ask you about basketball. i know you were a star player at your high school, you lead the team to the championship, you have to be a basketball fap, right? >> training camps are starting across the country for the nba. about 90% of players are vaccinated. gnarly 40 players still unvaccinated including bradley beal, could be a risk to thepss, how concerned should they be? >> first of all, i played

basketball. whether or not i'm a star is up to others and we didn't win the championship. well, the situation is obviously that we would like to see, essentially, all of the players for the general safety to get vaccinated. what i would say is that players reason to their own and their peers. i would suggest those that don't get vaccinated listen. i was just just listening to what he was saying. he has a very good message about getting vaccinated. and le wrop, you think he is going to have a big impact on those wanting to get vakts nated

in the nba? >> they have not looked up to as a player. >> i want to talk to you about the possibility of a government shut down in a few days. what would be the effect on the vaccine process? in the middle of this pandemic? >> i think it won't be helpful if we have a shut down. we home some of those critically needed activities will continue to be needed.

>> the shadow docket as the senate looks to the role of the supreme court. the ripple effect being felt in other courts as well. stay with us, this is andrea mitchell reports on msnbc. mitchell reports on msnbc. uranc, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪

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(both) woah! (man 2) i'm good. (man 1) me, too. (man 2) mm-hm. (vo) adventure has a new look. (man 1) let's go lower. (man 2) lower, that sounds good. (vo) discover more in the all-new subaru outback wilderness. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru. the restrictive texas abortion law and the supreme court so-called shadow docket were both big topics of the senate hearing this morning just days from now a federal judge is going to consider whether to temporarily block the near total abortion ban in texas following an emergency request from the biden administration. the texas law bans abortions after only six weeks when many women don't even know they're pregnant providing for no exceptions for rape or incest. and empowers citizens to enforce the law via civil lawsuits potentially awarding them $10,000 bounties. all of this making the law harder to challenge. co-chair of american bridge 21st

century and the former president of planned parenthood joyce vants. let's talk about the lawsuit and the hearing to exam the, quote, what they consider advocates, abuses of the shadow docket by the supreme court was recently in the texas case. but congress really can't change that procedure, right, what the court does? >> it can't change it directly, andrea. but it can shine a light on it. here i think what this hearing reveals is the connectivity between the shadow docket, which republicans were very desperate this morning to recharacterize as an emergency docket. they were concerned about the characterization of it as something shadowy and dangerous. the problem is the court uses this to issue often 5-4 opinions on difficult questions without any opinion or guidance for lower courts to follow. so, the hearing shined a light on that problem with the use of a docket as being against the way our courts are intended to

function by writing opinions following full briefings so lower courts and people can have confidence in and understanding of those opinions. >> and, of course, the texas decision was just a very quick measure basically in the middle of the night. late one night. cecille passed a protection with threats to roe v. wade, but not going to get a vote or survive in the senate. if it comes to a point where roe is overturned, what are the avenues pelosi and congress have given the divide in the senate? >> well, it was great to see that bill pass the house, although i will note not a single republican voted basically to support the right of people to safe and legal abortion. that's how far the republican party has gone and, as you say, this whole not public hearing in

the senate. what it means, of course, is that we're in a state by state fight and in the state of texas, i would argue that roe doesn't even exist any more. overnight women that lost access to safe and legal abortion, the isis not just something that happened by chance. this was the republican governor and the republican legislature putting their own political ambitions ahead of the women. it has created total chaos for women, particularly women in rural texas, young women, women who can't drive 250 miles to get to another state to access what is a constitutional right in this country. >> the law in texas, joyce, was so carefully crafted to be outside of government authority giving the ability to bring it up in civil cases, as you know, and bounty hunters who don't even have to know the person involved. so, what chance does the justice

department have in an upcoming hearing? i think it's on october 1st to try to challenge the texas law since it's not the government that is enforcing this. >> we're still in the early squirmishes day on this sort of litigation. what the government is doing is they're now trying to get an injunction that will block the texas law from staying in effect and they will be able to make arguments that weren't previously available because now the law is in effect and there is a lot more available evidence to talk about. some of the harms and the diminishment of right that it creates. the government will also be able to do something that didn't happen in the earlier shadow docket ruling and that's to create a record. they can actually bring in witnesses and evidence to talk about denial of rights. andrea, here's why that's important. we, obviously, live in a world where people have different opinions on very important issues involving constitutional

rights. and, so, what the shadow docket process essentially does is it lets the court just take a vote. a 5-4 vote with no sort of underlying analysis. what we need is a legal system of rule and law where the same rules apply in all cases. there can't be one set of rules for abortion and another set for religious rights. that's really the issue that doj would be wise to focus on this friday in their hearing to get a preliminary injunction. >> you set the stage for all of us. great to see you both. we'll have to leave it there for today. to be continued. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." remember, follow us online and on twitter. chuck todd is up next with "mtp daily" only on msnbc. and our customers rated us #1 for network quality in america according to j.d. power.

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and not only make new discoveries, but get there faster, with better outcomes. with app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps companies navigate change-- meeting them where they are, and getting them where they want to be. faster. vmware. welcome change. if it's wednesday democrats are in a state of disarray over the size and scope and timing of president biden's massive legislative agenda and it is his agenda. can he deliver the breakthrough before it's too late for congressional democrats. we're about to find out. plus, the house and the senate are also scrambling to avoid a government shut down before the clock strikes midnight tomorrow as u.s. debt escalates and shut down talk does seem to be mitigated. cover it all with lawm