the big day on capitol hill turning to a big night on capitol hill. democratic leaders as of this hour promise plowing forward on the infrastructure bill. it could come after 9:00 p.m. eastern. there will be full coverage on msnbc, including right now on "the reidout" with joy reid. hey, joy. >> hey, ari. thank you very much. the plot thickens. have great evening. we begin "the reidout" tonight, waiting as you just heard to see if speaker pelosi will bring the bipartisan infrastructure bill to the house floor for a vote tonight, which per her history, pelosi would like i will only do if it will pass. right now members are bracing for a late night with no votes scheduled before 9:00 p.m. but top aides to the president, speaker pelosi, and majority leader chuck schumer have been huddling to figure out a path forward. now, if you have been paying attention to the beltway media

conversation about the bipartisan infrastructure bill and the larger reconciliation bill, what you've probably heard about is how much these bills cost and what certain politicians in particular are willing to spend. what you're not hearing enough about is what's actually in these bills and what they mean for you. because here is the reality. this debate isn't about numbers. the debate is about what policies you, the american people believe should become law, and therefore are worth spending money on. and it so happens that the things in both of these bills are things joe biden campaigned on, won on, and vowed to deliver if and when he was elected. >> we're at a great inflection point in history. we have to do more than just build back better and build back. we have to build back better. well also need to make a once in a generation investment in our families and our children. trickle-down economics has never worked. it's time to grow the economy

from the bottom and the middle out. [ applause ] >> democrats now have an opportunity to put their money where their mouths are. let's take a beat and remember what we are talking about. the bipartisan infrastructure bill sets aside $550 billion new dollars for roads, bridges, and public transit, a major expansion of high speed internet and funding for clean drinking water. think flint, michigan. it also includes some new measures to combat climate change. this is the bill that moderate democrats and some republicans are all for, but the second bill, which would focus in large part on president biden's build back better agenda like expanding the child tax credits, paid family meld lead, universal preschool and free community college and more robust action on climate change, that were things get tricky. you see, opponents of the bigger bill, which was split off so that it could be passed by democrats alone through reconciliation say that the

price tag is too high. but just for a second, let's put that in perspective. the build back better bill would set aside $3.5 trillion over ten years. do you know how much you pay for our defense budget over the same amount of time? more than $7 trillion. so let's get real. this shouldn't be about how much it costs because we know republicans in particular do not really care about running up debts. because if that was the case, their mango mussolini would have been put on a tighter leash. this fight isn't even about so-called moderates versus progressives. it's about what values we decide to implement through the power that we give the people we elect. which the speaker nancy pelosi made abundantly clear today. >> i just told members of my leadership that the reconciliation bill was a culmination of my service in congress, because it was about the children, the children, the children, the children. their health, about health,

education, the economic security of their families, a clean, safe environment in which they could thrive, and a world at peace in which they could succeed. >> and she is right because these are massive investments in the american people, and something that we haven't really seen since fdr. it really shouldn't shock you hear that the majority of americans like this stuff. one poll shows 64% of voters support the infrastructure bill that same poll showed that 62% of voters when showed what's in the build back better agenda support that. which makes senator joe manchin and senator kyrsten sinema's obstinate refusal to budge on these issues more puzzling. instead they seem content backing colleagues into a corner with zero evidence that they'll commit to anything except for their pet issues which explains some of their colleagues skepticism. >> there i believe are some that don't want to pass both bills.

i think what we've seen from the influence of corporate lobbyists in washington, that that is absolutely part of the conversation, and that's why we want to secure a path to passage on both of these bills. >> senator manchin was asked about some of that criticism today. >> what do you say to people who you and senator sinema are holding this whole thing up? >> we don't have 50 votes. basically, take whatever we aren't able to come to agreement with today and take that on the campaign trail next year, and i'm sure they'll get many more liberal progressive democrats with what they say they want. >> i guess that he's forgotten that this was already litigated in 2020. and guess what? joe biden won that argument. with me now congresswoman pramila jayapal of washington, chair of the congressional progressive caucus. i have to say, congresswoman, what has perplexed me the most about this fight is that having, you know, been around democrats and, you know, been a democrat

and sort of observed democrats in the wild for a really long time, my presumption always was that i understood what democrats were for in general. i want to put back up what's in the build back better proposal. because i think what nancy pelosi said today about this being the culmination of basically why she is a democrat, this is over ten years, paid family leave, universal pre-k, free community college, child care reforms, extended tax credits, climate change provisions, medicare expansion. when you combine that with what's in the other bill, the roads and bridges, the high speed, et cetera, the two of those things together strike me as what democrats are generally always for. number one, why were the bills split up in the first place? and do you now think it was mistake? because the combined some of those two things is what i thought democrats were about. >> yeah, joy, it's so great to see you. and yes, we were not for splitting up the bill in the first place. in fact, we told everyone we knew that that was a beside idea, because what we didn't want to do is pit roads and

bridges against child care, against leave, against free community college. and when the decision was made to split the two bills, what we said in the progressive caucus, and we're a 96-member strong progressive caucus we said that a majority of our members would not vote for the infrastructure bill, a much smaller bill. and while it has some good things, joy, i would just say there are a lot of people who feel like the climate provisions in particular are actually negative, net negative in terms of carbon emissions. if you just have that bill. and so what we're trying to do with the reconciliation bill is make sure. that's the build back better act that has all of the rest of it, that's 85% of the president's agenda in the build back better act. and so we've said we will not vote for the bipartisan infrastructure bill until we have a vote in the senate on the reconciliation bill. because that is absolutely crucial, and we are not going

leave behind women and families who desperately need child care and paid leave. you know, people who need community college in order to be able to get those jobs in the infrastructure package, we're not going to leave behind climate change. and while the infrastructure bill has a little bit of money for water, the reality is the vast majority of getting lead out of water, you mentioned flint, is actually in the build back better act. so that is why we've been so firm about it. and, you know, our members have been amazing. they are not going to leave anybody behind. and we're going to deliver the entirety of president biden's agenda to his desk. this isn't a liberal wish list of things we wish we could have that nobody agrees with us on. 96% of democrats in the house and the senate and the president of the united states campaigned on this agenda and now want to deliver it. >> and what's interesting is that sinema and manchin initially voted on the

framework. they were saying they were for reconciliation. the thing that is confusing about it, it does feel like a bait and switch from those looking from the outside in. like they managed to split it so they could take out -- it's not liberal or progressive. joe biden is a moderate. joe biden is a norm core democrat, if i've ever seen one. that's why barack obama picked him. he is not -- he is not a sort of classic, he is a moderate. and these are general democratic things. let me show you one of the protests that is happening out there. this is usa today. so there are people protesting on the golden gate bridge right now because one of the other things that's been thrown over the bridge is immigration reform. like it seems like things that are sort of core to what democrats have been saying they want to do for a long time are getting thrown under the bus. the white house reportedly is on you guys' side, on the progressive caucus's side. have they signalled to you they are on your side all the way to the point if you've got to vote against that infrastructure bill, they're good with it? >> well, they understand exactly

where we are. we have been transparent. i talked to the white house regularly. i talked to them today. i talk to the speaker regularly. this is the president's agent, and they know that we are actually the ones who have the president's back. and i know that they have been very complimentary about that, and also about the pack that we're talking about what's in the build back better agenda. i'm so appreciative that you put up that chart. while people will remember a road or a bridge, and those are important, joy. i'm not saying they're not. >> sure. >> i need them in my district. but what people will really remember is when they wake up in the morning and they now can afford child care. they now have paid family and medical leave. they now can send their kids to community college or trade school. they now have dental, vision, and hearing for their medicare benefits. they now have a real chance to tell their kids or their grandkids that the planet is going to be here for them because we're really going to take on climate change. so i think the white house has been -- we've worked very

closely with the white house. we've worked very closely with the speaker. because, again, this isn't some crazy idea. this is the president's agenda that we insist on delivering. >> let's talk about the elephants in the room, and maybe elephants. it's weird that there are democrats here. let's play a conversation that -- or a confrontation that a bloomberg reporter had with joe manchin yesterday. >> the company you founded, provides coal that would be impacted by one of the proposals in the plan. how is that not a conflict of interest? >> what? >> your company provides coal. >> i've been in a blind trust for 20 years. >> you're still getting dividends from it. >> are. >> do i have a problem? your son owns it, right? is that not a conflict of interest? >> i'm very proud of my son. you'd do best to change the subject. >> okay that was a little bit

hostile. and then you have senator sinema, who came out and reiterated her opposition to the $3.5 trillion framework saying she is publicly more than two months ago before the senate passed the bipartisan bill she would not support a bill costing $3.5 trillion and will not negotiate through the press. she won't even talk to her -- she doesn't even seem to be showing her constituents very much respect. is the issue here that the coal interests, that the monied interests, maybe -- and i'm not asking you to impugn either of their character, but the coal interests and money interests, maybe in their own families, own circles, big pharma which we know is related to joe manchin, those industries are coming down hard on people like manchin and sinema that they will never support the $3.5 trillion. because really, what they've been sent to do is kill that bill? >> well, i can't speak to those two senator, but what i can tell you is those lobbyists are lined up outside our doors all day

long, all week long, all year long. and as we've had more and more people like me and others who don't take corporate pac contributions, who are insistent that we are here to deliver for the people and to convince people again that government actually works for them and not the special interests, i think what you have seen is more and more reluctance to pass some of these things that clearly do not make the tax system fair, right. we are insistent that president biden's agenda, which is to actually make the tax system fair and make the wealthiest pay their fair share and corporations pay their fair share and repeal some of these fossil fuel subsidies, and make sure we're taking on drug companies who are making billions, even as people can't afford their life-saving prescriptions, that is president biden's agenda in the build back better act. so i can't say what's driving somebody to be against it, but what i can say is 4%. 4% of all the democrats in the house and the senate are blocking the build back better

act from passing. 96% agree with us. the president agrees with us. and the speaker of the house, the senate majority leader, everybody is with us on this, and yet we're being, you know, that's the thing about narrow majorities. >> yeah. >> and when people were saying well, senator manchin and senator cinema, they decide everything, i kept saying to everyone, hello, everyone in the house is a manchin or sinema. that's why the progressive caucus, but also some of our allies is not a progressives versus moderates fight. >> that's right. >> as you point out. it's really a 96% of democrats against anyone a 4% who opposed it. >> that's right. >> that's why we've been so strong. >> i think it's important to reiterate that. because i think the way that the media tends to talk about politics, it's moderates versus progressives, when in this case that isn't the difference. it's whether you believe in these values that have been democratic values since fdro not.

i want to make a quick turn. this is an incredible civics exercise to show people how powerful these special interests are. they're willing to go to the mat to kill off these ideas. they're all over ads as well. let me make a turn. yourself and cori bush and barbara lee did some incredibly brave testimony. it was incredibly personal. we aired some of the interview you did with ali vitali yesterday. >> i'm compelled to speak out because of the real risks of the clock being turned back those days before roe v. wade, to the days when i was a teenager and had a back alley apportion in mexico. >> to all the black women and girls who have had abortions and will have abortions, we have nothing to be ashamed of. we live in a society that has failed to legislate love and justice for us. we deserve better. we demand better. we are worthy of better. >> for me, terminating my pregnancy was not an easy choice. the most difficult i've made in my life. but it was my choice, and that

is what must be preserved for every pregnant person. >> i'm sure that you are getting an overwhelming response to the bravery of you three women. just give us a little taste of what you've heard back after that amazing testimony. >> it's been incredible. i mean, the love from across the country, the fact that it was three women of color, members of congress. >> yes. >> testify ingtestifying. the fact that people female feel themselves heard. none of us should have to tell these stories, frankly. they are personal. if we want to, then that's great. but there are a lot of people out there who don't want to tell their story, but they want to be heard, and they want to be protected. and they want to see the diversity of the experiences represented. and i think that's what my incredible colleagues, representative lee and representative bush and i tried to do this morning is portray the intensely personal choices

we have to make and the circumstances surrounding those choices. and the fact that -- and i said this in my testimony, he will never tell somebody else that they should have abortion because that is their choice. but they don't get to tell me that i shouldn't, because at the end of the day, it's my body, and i get to control it. >> i got to tell you, you three and so many of your colleagues are proving that diversity is not a favor to the diverse, it is a gift to this country. it is a gift to america because you all are showing us the meaning of bravery and valor. thank you so much for doing that and for fighting this fight on behalf of values. brilliant. thank you. >> thank you. thank you so much, joy. >> thank you, congresswoman pramila jayapal. up next on "the reidout," congressman adam schiff joins me on the new subpoenas in the january 6 insurrection, and who might be next to receive one. plus, christine holmes long history of using her office to

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extremist radio host alex jones and hopefully praises right-wing militias that would later lead the attack on the capitol. then there is maggie mulvaney, a niece of former president trump's chief of staff as vip lead of the rally. mulvaney is also a current house staffer, which notes the house has rarely turned its subpoena power on its own. then there is katrina pierson, who reportedly had an in-person meeting with donald trump two days before the insurrection. in fact, she was reportedly assigned to the white house so, quote, take charge of the rally planning. that's according to propublica, which reported in june that pierson helped arrange a deal where those organizers deemed too extreme to speak at the ellipse could do on the day before on january 5th. in other words, the white house knew extremists would be descending on washington. they knew it was powder keg just waiting to explode, and donald trump still lit the fuse. according to -- among the

extremists who spoke on january 5th was a member of the paramilitary group the three percenters as well as alley alexander, who later implicated three republican lawmakers in the events of the next day. this comes amid new signs that the select committee means business. they've already previewed the possibility of holding resistant witnesses in contempt, noting that the biden justice department is not likely to stand in the way. and congressman adam schiff signaled this morning that there may be more subpoenas to come, indicating the house minority leader kevin mccarthy would also be a pertinent witness, and congressman adam schiff of california joins me now. let's go right to that. the idea that you have a current republican house staffer that is on the list already, that feels like the door is now open. should we be expecting to see names on that list that are more recognizable and that are members of congress up to and potentially including the house

minority leader? >> we haven't made any decisions yet on particular members of congress, but one thing we have been very clear about, and that is no one is off limits. we want to get to the bottom of all the facts, what led up to that insurrection, what planning went into it, who was organizing the rally, what expectation they had about potential violence or planned violence that day, and if they're members of congress, and i think there are that have relevant information about the planning that day, that were on the phone with a person during that day that can shed light on what the president knew, when he knew it, what others in the white house were doing, why the military response was so slow in coming, we want answers to all those questions. so people ought to understand whether they're in congress or out of congress, if they have relevant information, we're going want it. >> what's frightening here is how the connections between some of these extremist groups and

the white house appear to be playing out, just in the order of the subpoenas that are coming out. this is this woman cindy chafian. she openly praised some of these militias, some of home with were later involved in the insurrection. she stood on january 5th, thank you proud boys, the proud boys, the oath keeper, the three percenters, all of those guys keep you safe. there is also propublica reporting that one of the organizers of the rallies told propublica that his group felt the need to urgently warn the white house of possible danger. it remains unclear precisely what the white house officials learned about safety concerns about the march and whether they took those reports seriously. the indication here that at least some people who were planning these rallies leading up to january 6 understood that there were going to be violent people around, and they seemed to have done nothing if not encouraging those people to still show up. that the sense that you have? >> well, this is exactly what we need to flesh out. and, you know, for those who say don't we know what happened on

january 6? there are so many unanswered questions. what did we know? what did the planners know? what did the president know about who was showing up? and was it part of the plan that if they couldn't get the vice president to violate the constitution and decertify the results from this state or that that they were prepared to use violence? was that part of the plan? what was the president's thinking? what was the president advised about who was showing up? and so these are among the most central questions to this inquiry, and these folks that were involved on the planning of the rally, they have pertinent information to share, and we are going to expect their cooperation, and we're going to insist on their testimony one way or another. >> you mentioned the former president. i mean, this is somebody who said we're going go down. i'll walk with you, and we're hopefully going to see the vice president mike pence be brave. we hope he will be. we hope these congress people will be. in retrospect, that all sounds

very threatening. he seems to be an obvious person that the commission might want to hear from. is that in the plans? >> well, i don't want to get ahead of where our committee or our chairman are, but you raise a very important point, which is the president, of course, said that he was going to go with these marchers descending on the capitol and didn't. so why did he tell the crowd he was? and why did he decide not to? was the president aware of what was going to happen when they got the capitol? these are really pivotal questions at the heart of all of this. and we're going to calling in anyone who has relevant information. and, look, we expect to get a fight on some of this. the president is already gearing up for a fight. but the fact that we're going straight to subpoenas with some of these witnesses show you that we're not messing around here. we're not going to allow ourselves to be endlessly play

rope a dope within the court. we need to get answers and we need to get them fast. >> and how hard are you guys willing to go in terms of enforcing these subpoenas? we know that the trump administration's officials routinely batted away subpoenas and pretended that they didn't have to comply with them. now that they are no longer in charge of the justice department, do you expect these subpoenas to be enforced by the doj? and if so, how? >> that is certainly my expectation. and i hope i will not be disappointed in that expectation. the mechanism is if we subpoena people and think don't show up or they refuse to cooperate we can hold them in contempt and we can make a referral for a criminal contempt charge against those who are flouting the law. and then it will be up to the attorney general. now, we didn't have that option during the last four years when we have people like bill barr. >> right. >> who essentially would do anything the former president wanted, no matter how corrupt up until the very end, apparently.

>> yeah. >> so given that he was one of the people in contempt of congress, it wasn't viable to go to him to enforce subpoena. it's obviously a very different situation now, and we will hope and count on the biden justice department and the new attorney general to enforce the rule of law. >> as somebody who does not feel that i know very much about what happened on january 6, i feel there is so, so much more to learn. i thank you all for this inquiry. we will be watching and paying very close attention. congressman adam schiff, thank you very much, sir. really appreciate you being here. >> thank you. all right. up next on "the reidout," the roaming gnome has freely attacked president biden's son. her allegations are so egregious, her state's attorney general is looking in on it. more on "the reidout." oh, i had never seen a picture of her until i got on ancestry. it was like touching the past.

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noem's daughter was there too, and soon after that meeting, her daughter's certification was magically approved. but that's not all. just after noem's daughter had her certification in hand, the labor secretary called that very agency head to demand her resignation. the governor denies that she asked for any special treatment for her daughter. south dakota general robbinsburg, a fellow republican says he is actively reviewing the situation. joining me now charlie sykes, an msnbc columnist. let's talk about this. it's a very complicated situation where even the guy investigating her jason robbinsborg is also problematic. he faced misdemeanor charges for striking and killing a man with his car last summer, claiming he didn't see the man before, after or during the accident, even though the man's glasses were found in his car. so it's kind of like is there anybody that isn't corrupt in south dakota? >> no, there is something rotten

in south dakota, and kristi noem is having a bad day, a bad week. let's put this in context. you know, she has been on this short list possibly for 2024. and the assumption in the maga world of course is that donald trump would be the nominee. so the question is who will be the vice presidential candidate. and there is a lot of speculation that trump might name a woman or a member of a minority group or a person of color. that pushes kristi noem and people like tim scott to the list, which means every one of these stories is sort of a test. is she ready for prime time? because you know what? she is not going to have the same kind of media cover as i think you called him the mango mussolini. it's a test of her ethics. but it's also a test of her ability to handle these stories. and that's not going well. >> well, i mean, look. let's just go through some of her nepotism scandals. one of her college-aged

daughters was one of the first hired for her transition team in 2018. she worked for her mom. her last name is kennedy. enjoyed more than $17,000 in raises at the taxpayer expense, including a 12% wage boost in the midst of a wage freeze that noem imposed on all other employees. kyle peter, the husband of noem's older daughter took a $60,000 salary in the governor's office of economic development. it prompted one state senator to introduce an anti-nepotism bill because of her. so she has a history of this. but my question is in the party of trump, does that even matter? doesn't that even make her more qualified to be his vp? if she is that corrupt, isn't she just what he wants? >> well, see this is what is interesting. we've talked about this before. how trump world seems to attract all of these characters who are ethically questionable because they know that there is no apologies, right there. are really no standards. you can just push back against the fake news.

the problem here, though, and this is where i think she's got some problems is they're going to be knives out throughout the maga world, and she doesn't have the kind of unique position that donald trump had. now, look, she has done everything as possible to be as deplorable as possible, paying to send the national guardsmen down to the border and the various other things. but in this world, there are so many litmus tests. so, again, she is going to be facing these darts from within the tent. and i think she may be thinking hey, i'm running the governorship like a family business. isn't that what the trump white house was? i mean, i'm not treating my kids any different than donald trump was treating his kids. but you know what? we often find out that the rules don't apply the same way. >> that's right turkey, trumpists as they do to the guy at the top. >> correct. and there is also the woman factor too. i remember nikki haley facing similar friendly fire in south carolina when republicans tried

to accuse her of sort of infed infidelity stuff. it does feel like it's coming from inside the tent. trump doesn't respect women. so aren't these women like nikki haley who is now trying to kiss up to trump and people like kristi noem, she can say she wants to put him on mt. rushmore every day of the week. he'll take it, bank it and still pick desantis. >> well, the thing is he is going to want the see how strong they will fight. and you're making kind of a reference to a garbage attack from a garbage publication. >> totally, but i think it's an indication of the kind of sleaze that you're going get out there. and you know that in this world, this is, again, the problem of the magaverse is truth is not really a predicate for spreading stories about people. you do get that about nikki haley. you do get that about kristi noem. it is going to be ugly. and it's going to be -- >> yeah. >> and it's going to accelerate the fact that you're having this kind of thing happening now this early is an indication of the

toxic environment, well, what a surprise, that the trump world is this sort of toxic sludge dump. >> yeah. >> these stories about the nepotism run deep. i think it shows a callousness and an incaution, a sloppiness, a contempt for ethics. and she just seems to be stumbling in trying to explain it. >> yeah, indeed. to quote everything that trump touches dice. you're going to find out real quick all those rules only apply to him. charlie sykes, you're great. thank you very much. have a wonderful evening. does the name glenn youngkin ring a bell? he is virginia's republican gubernatorial nominee, and he wants you to believe he is a moderate. but he is really a trump in sheep's clothing. whether we explain, after this. s (burke) i've seen this movie before. (woman) you have? (burke) sure, this is the part where all is lost and the hero searches for hope. then, a mysterious figure reminds her that she has the farmers home policy perk, guaranteed replacement cost. and that her home will be rebuilt, regardless of her limits or if the cost of materials has gone up.

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♪ i see trees of green ♪ ♪ red roses too ♪ ♪ i see them bloom for me and you ♪ (music) ♪ so i think to myself ♪ ♪ oh what a wonderful world ♪ is a new big-name republican in town. not quite a household name yet, but you are about to hear a whole lot more about glenn youngkin in the coming weeks. he is the republican running for

virginia against former governor terry mcauliffe. and in many ways what it means to be a norm core conservative/moderate republicans these days, trying to appease the forever trimpers and the independent voters. his success or failure could solidify the gop playbook leading up to the midterms next year, and it could have huge implications for the health of virginians. similar to the recall election in california where gavin newsom defeated the covid candidate larry elder, elections these days all seem to boil down to three things, the big lie, what elected officials will do about the big lie in future elections, and covid mandates. here is where youngkin stands on the latter. >> one thing i can do is i can move the mandate for state employees. state employees on day one. >> joining me now is democratic strategist juanita tolliver and cornell belcher. juanita, i want to start with

you. texas has brought to the floor is abortion. here he is talking about abortion when he thinks that he's not being heard by the general public. >> i'm going to be really honest. the short answer is in this campaign, i can't. when i'm governor and i have a majority in the house, we can start going on offense. but as a campaigns, sadly, that in fact won't win my independent votes that i have to get. >> juanita, that's the quiet part, oopsie, out loud. so is the risk here people think this guy's moderate, but poof, i want to do a texas on abortion? >> that's exactly right, joy. and i think in the primary, people got a taste of that. if they were paying attention to what he was saying there, because he did not mince words in the primary on abortion. he didn't mince words on the 2020 election results in the

primary amongst gop candidates, because he knew he has appeal to the gop base who are primary voters. but like he said, it's going to be a bit and switch. as soon as he gets those independent votes, which polling shows are skewing more republican in this election cycle, then he is going to flip the script and he is going to come after not only women's rights, but he is going the make sure that any lies that trump says are going to be amplified. he is going to come after anything else in terms of old republican goodies like tax cuts and really lifting up on any type of crime language. so expect a bait and switch from him full speed because what he is doing right now, i think republicans are picking up on it and celebrating it. they're oh, he is expanding our tent. he is expanding voters that we can do to after doing what he needed to do to win the gop primary, he flipped. and he'll flip again if he wins the governorship. >> i think that is sort of the risk, cornell, is he comes across like the maryland

governor. whatever people used to say about kasich in ohio. kasich in ohio was an extreme anti-abortion candidate. but to the media oh, he is moderate. but once one of these guys gets in, this is what youngkin said about whether or not he would certify the election. youngkin beat biden beat trump legitimately, but in speaking with axios, he wouldn't say whether he would have voted to certify the election if he was a member of congress. so the bottom line, if he is in there in a state like virginia that presumably goes blue for biden, then he is nah, i ain't certifying that. bait, switch. >> this is the problem. but this is also why we have campaigns and why campaigns matter. and, you know, you reference to california example earlier, and let's understand, polls in california were a month or a month and a half out from the election too were 50-50 proposition until slowly democrats began to sort of turn their fire and define the crazy republicans in the race. and i think fairly soon you're going have to -- you're going to

see democrats begin define him as not a moderate, but quite frankly a trumper. let's also understand that this is virginia, and i'm a virginian. i remember it wasn't that long ago that virginia was a toss-upstate. and you remember, joy, that quite frankly, obama in 2012 didn't blow the doors thought virginia either. we got 50, 50.8%. >> yep. >> of the vote there. but it's been trending blue. and quite frankly, the trumpism has been helping it trend blue. i'm a big -- look, i think northam was a great governor. but northam at the time had more votes than anyone who ran for governor. i don't think that was just about northam. it was a sense of trumpism. i look to see the democrats turn this into a referendum about sort of him and defining him as a trumper. >> well, let's give terry mcauliffe's campaign a grade on that one. is he effectively doing that? >> i think mcauliffe is trying his best. what he is getting hit with as

we saw on the debate stage earlier, youngkin is further and further trying to distance himself from trump. but with the clip you just showed, joy, and if youngkin saying if he runs in 2024, he'll support him, expect to see those ads dropping. just like cornell the ads dropping. that's what you'll see in the week of the election. that's when we know democrats in virginia are tried and true as far as gop turnout. that's the message they'll hit the doors with, what you'll hear on the airwaves and on the radio. >> i think big worry is because he doesn't come across as loopy and overly -- overtly trumpy, democrats might not have the same level of enthusiasm while trump people are going to be super enthusiastic to steal a blue state. is that a worry of yours? >> it's an absolute worry. not only a worry about me about virginia but also a worry for me going into the midterms and particularly what's going on right here in washington today, where we're not talking about justice in policing, not talking about voting rights. and those are two key issues for

african-american and base democrats going into the last election, where democrats said, you know what, put us in power and we're going to handle this. we're going to give you justice in policing and voting rights, and they have not done either one of those two things, so i think it is -- i am worried about us energizing our base given sort of the back and forth we see going on in washington and it leaking down to other parts of the country. >> do you have the same worry, juanita. you hear it, that the base is annoyed, fed up. is that going to be a problem? >> look, while nationally, yes, that's the vibe, but i do have to recognize that in the commonwealth, democrats in the house of delegates and in the senate have been doing a lot to achieve the democratic agenda. while folks in the beltway and northern virginia may be disincentivized, the rest of the commonwealth knows what they're delivering for them. >> note that i did not note the

polls because sometime the polls make people feel too comfortable. i'm not going to mention the polls. juanita tolliver and cornell belcher. >> there's an obvious reason biden's agenda is stalled. it's not because the american people do not support it. the absolute worst is next. how much money can liberty mutual save you? one! two! three! four! five! 72,807! 72,808... dollars. yep... everything hurts. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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if there is one little thing

we know about the extremely rich, it is that many of them do everything they can do to avoid paying taxes. so they can have as much money as humanly possible. in a new piece this week, propublica reports irs reports show that more than half of america's 100 richest people are using special trusts to dodge the estate tax. a list of the usual suspects includes michael bloomberg, charles koch and his late brother david, and erik prince. they point out that there's no way to know how much this has cost the united states government. but in 2013, a lawyer estimated it had been more than $100 billion with a "b" since the year 2000. this comes as congress is debating a way to use increased taxes on the wealthy and corporations to pay for biden's build back better plan. something we keep hearing that america just can't afford. the white house released a report last week showing that

the country's 400 wealthiest families have been able to slash their income tax bills to an average rate of 8.2% due to loopholes in the tax code. that rate is 5% below what the average american, meaning y'all, pay. we're not just talking about personal income taxes. corporations are also a big problem. this year alone, 55 corporations paid zip, zero in federal income tax, including fedex, nike, and american electric power. amazon wasn't on this year's list, it still avoided $2.3 billion in annual income taxes last year according to the institute of taxation and economic policy. these people have enough cash to literally launch themselves into space for a quick vacay, but nope, america cannot afford to do any spending on its regular, ordinary people. that disparity is what made this moment at the ultra rich confab

in davos go viral in 2019. >> i hear people talking the language of participation and justice and equality and transparency, but almost no one raises the real issue, tax avoidance, and of the rich not paying their fair share. this is not rocket science. i mean, we can talk for a very long time about all these stupid philanthropy schemes. come on, we have to be talking about taxes. that's it, taxes, taxes, taxes. all the rest is [ bleep ] in my opinion. >> that aversion to paying taxes, taxes, taxes is what's holding up biden's plan, which would raise the corporate tax rate as well as taxes for the top 1%. the chamber of commerce and other trade groups have spent millions of dollars fighting that corporate tax increase. and guess who they have spent a lot of that money on. kyrsten sinema, who has come out against raising corporate and income tax rates. even though as ken clipper steen pointed out, she once tweeted

asking big corporations and the rich to pay their fair share is common sense, not class warfare, among other tweets on raising taxes and closing loopholes. i wonder what happened to that reasonable politician. biden's plan is popular and so is taxing the super wealthy. a new poll shows 66% of americans favor raising taxes on large businesses and corporations. with 37% saying that taxes should be raised a lot. 61% say taxes should be raised on income that is over $400,000. but because our democracy apparently runs on lobbying, there is no agreement on biden's plan, and it may never come to fruition. democratic senator sherrod brown made that exact point on the senate floor today. >> hear these reports about billionaires not paying taxes. you hear these reports about record profits on wall street. you see the influence, just, you know, check down the hall. madam president, look down the hall. you can see the influence in the

minority leader's office, senator mcconnell, lobbyists going in and out, always getting their way. it's always about helping those in charge get wealthier. >> so for their absolute greed, the rich and the mega corporations do everything they can to avoid taxes and their lobbyists, they are tonight's absolute worst. and that tonight's "reidout." "all in" with chris hayes starts now. >> tonight on "all in" -- >> you cannot tire. you cannot concede. it's -- this is the fun part. >> high drama in the halls of congress. are there new signs of life for the biden agenda? ilhan omar and senator chris murphy join me live. >> then -- >> saying to people, i know where you live, i think that's intimidating and threatening. >> why the national school boards association is asking the white house and the fbi to protect members facing threats over public health. >> plus, the in