as well as the infrastructure piece are things that i wrote. these didn't come from god love him, bernie sanders, or aoc or anybody else. i wrote them. i disagreed with medicare for all, for example. i disagreed but i laid out what i thought would be important. for example, i think in the build back better program it's required that we, in fact, have the best education available to us and i'll be speaking to this in detail tomorrow. but look, here's the situation. how can we in an ever competitive world, increasingly competitive world, how can we not meet the educational standards of at least other countries are working toward? nobody is reducing the number of years they want their children to go to school or people to go to school. you've heard me say it before as

my wife says, if we don't -- if any country out educations, they're going to out compete us. look at what china's doing. look at what the rest of the world is doing. they're investing. they're also investing in things that relate to ability for people to go to work and stay at work. we have several million women who can't go back to work because they don't have any way to take care of their children. so to give a tax cut to a working mom to be able to afford day care. is that bad? is that a bad idea? i think it's a darn good idea. we'll get people back to work. so there's a lot of things in the legislation we're going to be talking about across the country that i think the american people overwhelmingly support, but the idea that somehow this is somebody else's legislation, this is what i wrote. >> say a $2 trillion reconciliation bill, would that be acceptable to you? >> again, as you know, it's not a smart thing to negotiate with

yourself in public. let's see -- we're in the process of continuing to talk to all the parties and see what we can get done. >> sir, thank you so much, mr. president, two questions. first, you said there was progress in the negotiation, but today you say you only have 48 votes, so what is the struggle? and another question in international news it was big yesterday about the papers. do you have any reaction, you put fight against corruption as the -- >> i didn't get the last paper. >> the papers, you said -- fight against corruption in the core of your national security policies, so what is your reaction and do you plan to do anything about it? >> we're looking at that right now, and the first part of your question was what? >> was about progress, what does progress look like to you in negotiations? >> winning, that's the progress.

last question. >> i want to be very clear. can you guarantee that the u.s. will not reach the debt ceiling, that that will not happen? >> no, i can't. that's up to mitch mcconnell. >> so it's possible that the u.s. will not pay its debts? >> i can't believe that that will be the end results because the consequences are so dire. i don't believe that, but can i guarantee it? if i could, i would, but i can't. thank you all very much. appreciate it. >> senator manchin said the deal is off if the -- >> it is good to be with you. this is "andrea mitchell reports" in washington. president biden there trying to put public pressure on congressional republicans to join democrats in voting to raise the debt ceiling and avoid what would be a catastrophic hit to financial markets while his party is still stuck in a public debate over that massive multitrillion dollar spending bill. >> if we're going to make good on what's already been approved

by previous congresses and previous presidents and parties, we have to pay for it. raising the debt limit is usually a bipartisan undertaking, and it should be. that's what is in the happening today. >> we will have more on the president in just a moment, but with our panel, but i want to first bring in the anchor of this hour, nbc chief foreign affairs correspondent, andrea mitchell. it's great to see you. you are in paris ahead of secretary blinken's arrival there for some critical meetings. what's the latest there? >> reporter: thank you, jeff. we're expecting secretary blinken to arrive in just a few hours here. this hour i'll be talking to france's ambassador to the united states about the importance of this trip after, as you know, both the public fallout between president macron and president biden over macron's complaint that the u.s. secretly cut a huge submarine deal, a big weapons project with australia, that the french

believe was theirs as well as, of course, the messy u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan against the advice of nato allies, but i'll send it back to you first for more on the president's agenda and his comments just now. we'll talk to you in just a bit. joining us now for more on the big hurdles facing the president is sahil kapur, reuters white house correspondent jeff mason, and former republican national chairman michael steele. jeff mason, we'll start with you. let's listen to bit more from the president's comments moments ago on the debt limit. take a listen to this. >> let's be clear, not only are republicans refusing to do their job, they're threatening to use the power, their power to prevent us from doing our job, saving the economy from a catastrophic event. i think quite frankly, it's hypocritical, dangerous and disgraceful. their obstruction and irresponsibility knows absolutely no bounds.

>> so jeff, give us the state of play here because president biden is trying to put republicans in a bind, but mitch mcconnell, the senate minority leader doesn't seem interested at all on budging on this deaf -- debt ceiling issue. >> agreed. i think what we've seen today, particularly what we've heard from the president is an increasing, an upping of the rhetoric from the white house. very deliberately placing blame on the republicans if the u.s. were to default and using strong language like disgraceful. he also directly tied what could happen and what is actually happening, you look at the markets today already, to people's retirement accounts, their 401(k)s, interest rates. there's a knock-on effect impacting voters, american citizens around the country because of the stalemate so far. so it's -- you notice just a real strategy on the part of this president, on the part of this white house to say not only are republicans being

irresponsible to not do this in a bipartisan way but they're going to prevent democrats from doing that, and that's going to hurt the country, and it's going to hurt voters. >> and sahil, to jeff's point, because the effects of this are already being felt, that's one of the reasons why the majority leader chuck schumer sent out a letter saying that congress has to pass this debt ceiling hike by the end of the week. this is not one of these things that can wait until the night before, the morning of. you heard the president there talking about this process that democrats already suggested trying to raise the debt limit first using unanimous consent, and then using their 50 plus one vote threshold. help us understand how this would all work potentially. >> sure, jeff, it appears democrats and president biden are all on the same page here that reconciliation, that's that budget process, should not be used to lift the debt ceiling. you just heard president biden there call it an incredibly complicated cumbersome process. basically it would restart the budget process or at least create a separate track where you have to go through the senate and the house, if there

are amendments that can be offered, as many as hundreds court biden, it would have to go back to the house and pass there as well. what democrats and president biden are calling for is to take the bill the house passed, put it on the senate floor and democrats can pass it themselves. what biden is asking and schumer is asking mcconnell and republicans is drop the filibuster. allow democrats to raise it themselves through the normal process, which they're willing to do. one of the reasons republicans don't want to allow democrats to do that, is they want democrats to put a number on the debt limit. it would be $30 trillion or more which sounds like a huge number and republicans want to use that and campaign against democrats on that number in 2022 in those midterm elections. i know that because the nrsc chairman told me as much. they intend to hold democrats accountable for the debt limit. jeff, the issue is poorly understood. the debt limit does not add a penny in new spending. it simply enables congress to pay the bill that it has racked up and the debt that is currently approaching 30 trillion is a thoroughly bipartisan venture.

it would need to be raised to pay the bills even if democrats didn't do this $3.5 trillion bill, even if they dropped it in its entirety. there you have it, the standoff escalating. democrats not blinking, republicans not blinking, two weeks from today is the drop dead deadline the treasury has put out there to breach the debt limit. something's going to have to give or we're headed for an economic catastrophe. >> we heard president biden say in his remarks that republicans raised the debt limit three times under donald trump, that republicans and democrats together racked up $8 billion in spending and now mitch mcconnell says he wants no part in trying to effectively pay for it. what's his strategy here, do you think? >> who, mcconnell's strategy? >> yeah, mcconnell's strategy. >> mcconnell's strategy is very simple. it's like, okay, so we spent $8 trillion over the last four years, and we're going to hold you, joe biden accountable for having to pay for it the. that's essentially what it is. really, it's as if you go out and you go out with your buddies and you have a wonderful night

out on the town. you spent 3, $4,000 in alcohol and l drinks and food, and then your buddy's stuck with the credit card bill. and that's essentially what this is. so let's be honest about what's happening here, and sahil put it exactly the way it is that the republicans are looking for a cudgel to beat over the democrats' head in the '22 cycle that goes along with two narratives. one, the socialism narrative, and two, the spending narrative. when you put those two together, you're going to spend trillions of dollars for socialist programs. that's part of this political ploy that's being played out. what is still stunning to me is that after all this time, the democrats still haven't figured out a counter narrative. i just don't understand it. it makes no sense. you've been in this room how many times now over the last few

years, and not only have you been in the room, but when the republicans were on the hook during the trump years, what did democrats do? they were like, oh, okay, we'll help you out. we'll make it easier for you to raise the debt ceiling and agree. now the script is flipped and mcconnell's like, oh, we ain't doing nothing. i saw you all. you got to do it yourself. the politics here is what mcconnell's always about. he's no interested so much in the policy or the outcome on the policy side, it's how the politics will drive whatever policy narrative they want to create for 2022. >> yeah. well on the topic of narratives and messaging, jeff mason i was struck to hear the president when he got some questions about his infrastructure plan and the social spending plan, he was asked questions about the process and the president tried to pivot and talk about the substance. the substance of what's actually in that legislation and the ways in which it would show up in people's lives if democrats are eventually able to pass it.

i think the white house is trying to do a messaging reset here on the infrastructure push. >> i agree, and i think michael made good points, but i would take issue with one. i think that the white house does have a strategy now, and it is -- was seen just in the guidance that came out this morning or last night announcing president biden's remarks. it said republicans voted twice to let the country default. i mean, that is a direct piece of blame saying that they voted already to let the country default by not giving their support. so i think a combination of that and more broadly, the democrats' strategy has always been for years and years to say we are a party that cares about governing and governing well. now, michael's right in saying mcconnell doesn't care about that in terms of his messaging, and the question will be which one ends up resonating the most with voters. but i do think democrats have a strategy. it's just a question of whether or not it's going to work. >> there is this asymmetry in

our politics. jeff mason, sahil kapur and michael steele, thanks to the three of you. back ontrack, secretary of state tony blinken traveling to paris hoping he can help repair the strained relations with america's oldest ally. what has to be done to rebuild those ties. and andrea interviews the french ambassador to the u.s. next on this special edition of "andrea mitchell reports" only on nauz news msnbc. bc insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ ♪ ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience,

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. secretary of state tony blinken is on his way here to paris on a damage control mission, while here for a previously scheduled meeting with other european officials on the economy and climate. this is a chance for him to try to repair relations after the u.s. cut france out of a multibillion dollar submarine deal with australia without any heads-up to the french. france, america's oldest ally called it a stab in the back and briefly recalled its ambassador to the u.s. the french ambassador has since returned to washington and he joins me now, ambassador philippe etienne, the french ambassador to the united states. welcome to your city, your capital. thank you very much for being with us today. it's very good to see you. let me ask you, ambassador, you met with the secretary of state -- well, thank you and i know this is so timely because secretary blinken is in the air on his way here as we speeb.

you met with the secretary of state on friday. did he explain to you why the u.s. did not tell president macron that the u.s. was negotiating behind his back? >> i think there has been a very important discussion between the two presidents on september 22nd where the importance of consultations between allies has been recognized, and indeed this is a point where the conversations have not taken place. now we are together with our american partners, we want to rebuild the trust, which has been lost which means quite a lot of work because we need to discuss this issue about come and go and concrete actions which have to be taken. secretary blinken's visit to paris is very important. it's the engaging of these

in-depth consultations with the president. >> the french foreign minister called the submarine deal a stab in the back. secretary blinken is expected to meet with him tomorrow. what does the u.s. need to do to regain france's trust? >> i think it must be clear it was much more than a commercial contract. it was about a strategic partnership between france and australia and a very important item in our indo-pacific strategy. france was the first country in europe, which presented indo-pacific strategy, so now we have to discuss these issues which have been described in the joint communique of the presidents and the working sessions which the two ministers will have after the first meeting they had in new york is

in this respect absolutely essential. those issues are in particular the indo-pacific because the u.s., president biden reaffirmed the importance for the u.s., the french and european indo-pacific strategies. and then we have to discuss the european defense, strengthening of european defense to come and fight against terrorism. so many common goals and i'm sure others too. we have to discuss to find concrete actions. we can decide together as allies. will president macron be willing to meet with secretary blinken this week? >> i don't comment the schedule of my president. >> so you don't know -- is that still a possibility?

>> i told you, i have no comment on this. >> okay. well, let's turn to another difficult subject, which is afghanistan, the timetable for the withdrawal because france and other nato allies were critical of the chaotic way that the u.s. left afghanistan without giving american allies more times to withdraw, the sequencing and ignoring the advice from nato in june when we were in brussels together. how does france think the u.s. should have handled it? >> on afghanistan, of course, we have the question about consultations, but now we must -- two things on this, first we must also look forward. we have fundamental issues which are first -- first circulation for afghan people possibly to travel, the rights, human rights, and how we can defend

the rights of women, and third, how we can ensure the fight against the terrorist groups, which we also are fighting with support by critical capacities brought by the u.s. those are the issues we must work on together between allies. i think also that we must also draw from what all those events and from this point of view a good example, how the europeans can do more themselves when our american allies will not be in the leadership position, when supporters will provide political and technical support. so it is also a very important point, which we will be discussing with our american partners, france and allies.

>> ambassador, president macron has talked about withdrawing from nato's integrated military command structure, which it rejoined in 2009. this would be an extreme step, wouldn't it? what can the u.s. do to help encourage european allies to make sure that france stays in the nato command? >> it is not this issue which is on the table. we have decided and i will answer you directly. we have decided at the last nato summit to redefine a strategy concept for nato. so the answer is very clear to your question, andrea. we must succeed this -- of a new concept for nato and for us this rebalancing with more responsibilities for the europeans was a stronger partnership between eu and nato is really an important goal, which we contribute to more

security for the europeans, for the americans and strength for our alliance. obviously this new strategic concept will cover also other discussions, other topics, but this is something really important, i think. >> well, as you pointed out today, this is a very important visit for secretary blinken, and i know that the americans are trying to repair this relationship, but they obviously have some work to do. ambassador philippe etienne, thank you very much for being with us today. >> thank you very much. thank you, andrea, thank you for having me. >> you bet. and jeff, back in d.c. >> yeah, that's right. we're talking about a blockbuster term coming up. the supreme court back on the bench with a docket promising fireworks, among the big cases, abortion and guns. the early signs experts are watching for next on "andrea

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the u.s. supreme court kicks off its new term and is set to

hear cases challenging some of the in addition's most divisive issues. what could become the biggest ruling on abortion in 30 years challenging a woman's right to choose and a long-awaited decision on the issue of carrying guns outside the home. nbc news correspondent pete williams joins me now, and pete it is not hyperbolic, or maybe it is, you tell me, to say this is one of the most consequential terms in recent history over at the court. >> no, i don't think that's an overstatement. of course it's hard to tell how far the supreme court will go on these cases, but it does seem very likely that the court will blow a big hole in abortion rights if not overturned roe v. wade altogether. here's why, this is the case from mississippi. the supreme court has held through the last several decades that states can restrict abortion in the period before viability, which is thought to be about 23 or 24 weeks, but cannot ban it during that period, so here comes mississippi with a law that would, if it went into effect, ban abortion after 15 weeks. that's a direct challenge to

roe, and the state says the supreme court should overturn roe v. wade. 2008, the supreme court says the second amendment does provide an individual right to have a gun in the home for self-defense. this gun case comes from new york. it raises the questions of what about the second amendment's provision to keep and bear arms, what about the right to own a gun outside the home. the supreme court, geoff, in recent years has said that states can't omit schools that are run by religious organizations from receiving public money to support education. this will go a step further and say, well, what if those schools aren't just run by religious institutions but they also offer religious education. does that mean public money can be blocked from them. and before the term is over, the supreme court might take up affirmative action again in a case from harvard, african-american students say that the harvard system they use is raised as a plus factor discriminates against them.

>> we clearly don't know how the court will rule on these decisions. we do know who makes up the court. can you sort of glean from that how the justices might rule on any one of these main cases, abortion, gun rights, religious education. >> the biggest indicator of how the court might rule is always whether it agrees to hear the case or not. if the court agrees to hear a case, that suggests there are at least four justices who think the lower court got it wrong. so you have challengers, mississippi appealing. you have to assume the supreme court is going to say that the lower courts got something wrong here and that mississippi is in pretty good shape. same thing with the new york case. same thing with the one on maine on religious education. that's your biggest indicator, and the second one of course is the lineup of the justices. as you say now solidly conservative with a 6-3 majority? pete williams, thanks as always for that great preview. we're going to shift our

focus and talk about the covid pandemic because johnson & johnson will reportedly ask the fda to approve a booster for its one-shot covid vaccine this week. that's happening as we're seeing a decline in infections across the country. new cases have dropped by more than 20% over the last two weeks, and three more air carriers are joining united airlines in the new york city public school system in requiring vaccines for all of their employees. joining us now is dr. vin gupta, a critical care pulmonologist at the university of washington. also with us is nbc news correspondent shaquille brewster at a hospital in marshal, michigan. i want to talk about the fact that new infections are down. so we're all wondering, have we finally reached a plateau with this current wave, with this current delta variant? >> good afternoon, geoff, great to see you. what we expect to happen throughout the month of october is actually a minor decline in cases and a plateau. right now we've lost 1,800

americans just yesterday, geoff. that plateau is quite high, but i do suspect things will level off this specific month, and then, yeah, with cold and blue season and colder, drier air ahead, we do expect an uptick again come november, december. this is a respite, but there is concern ahead as we enter a dangerous period with seasonality with winter time. >> i want to ask you about the "new york times" reporting that johnson & johnson, if they're going to ask the fda this week to approve its booster shot, how significant is that and what does it mean for the level of protection against infection with one report showing j&j's single dose is at least 15% less effective than pfizer and moderna. >> you're right. there's been a lot of conflicting data points on what one dose means in terms of protecting those one dose j&jars from the hospital. internal studies from the company suggest numbers that are higher than those studies that are done externally from other

scientists. it does seem like two doses of any vaccine are necessary if you're otherwise healthy, less than 65, to give you the strongest protection from the hospital. and so this is -- this was long time coming. i've talked to internal folks at j&j. they knew that this was likely going to be something that the update was going to approve. the big question for one dose j&jerss is when do you get that second dose? if you're new to johnson & johnson, do you get it two months or six months after that first dose. that is what's going to be debated. probably two months between dose one and two. >> we have some news into our newsroom that president biden, the white house just announced, is going to visit chicago on thursday, this thursday to talk about the importance of covid-19 vaccine requirements. so shaq, over to you there in michigan. cases are down nationally as we've just been talking about. you're at this hospital in marshal, michigan, as i understand it, that has just been inundated with covid

patients and now this hospital is at capacity. what's the scene there? >> reporter: that's right, geoff, and you know, you have doctors here saying that they're waiting for that downturn in cases. here in the state of michigan, you're not seeing this decline in cases, not seeing that decline in hospitalizations, and then you have icus in hospitals across the country, at least 20 according to an nbc news analysis that have had icus at full capacity, 100% capacity or more, for more than a year, geoff. so doctors here are saying that's impacting not only staffing levels, but that's impacting patient care. i want you to listen to what a doctor and a nurse here at this hospital told me about what that's doing to the entire system here. >> we're still feeling the crunch, you know, we have at least one or two patients per day getting admitted with covid. we get rid of one, we admit one or two. so it's like we're breaking even at best. >> i love my profession. i don't like what it's done to me. i don't want to end my career like this. down what i do to relieve

stress? i get on indeed.com and i start looking for other jobs that are not in health care. and here's the thing, i know i'm going to walk back in there. >> reporter: you hear doctors continue to emphasize the need for folks to get vaccinated. this is an area that does not have the highest vaccination rates in this state, and you know, one other point that you hear from the doctors is this is not impacting just covid patients. this is impacting patients dealing with other things, other treatable illnesses. this is a small hospital, a small icu. they regularly transfer patients to other larger medical centers, but the doctors said they had one patient this weekend who we had to make calls to eight different hospitals. and for a point, he thought he was going to have to tell this patient's wife that your husband may die because we don't have a hospital bed. we can't transfer him to any other hospital system. fortunately that ninth hospital was able to take the park.

patient. it shows you the impact it's having not on covid patients. >> i was really struck listening to that medical professional shaq talked to. she deals with stress by going online and looking for other jobs, but at the end of the day, she just walks right back into work because this is a profession she was called to do. i imagine that sentiment was felt by health care workers all across the country. what are you hearing from your colleagues? >> geoff, this is a critically important segment, thank you, shaq, for doing it because here's the thing, by the end of the decade, we're projecting that we're going to lose 40% of the position work force, a third of nurses, about a million we suspect will go out of the work force. we're turning away nursing school applicants. we don't have enough students or slots to meet the demand because that demand is rising, thankfully, from the next generation, and yet, we aren't replacing all those people that we're going to lose in the work force. that is the big issue here, when we talk about hospitals at capacity, it's not necessarily

that they don't have beds, they don't have staffed beds. this is going to be a worsening cyclical problem as we proceed through the decade. >> that is just alarming stuff. dr. vin gupta and shaquille brewster. off the coast of southern california, crews there are scrambling to contain nearly 126,000 gallons of crude oil, which leaked from an oil pipeline. toxic globs have been washing ashore, killing fish and birds. the pipeline company says the pipeline is shut down because they aren't sure what caused it to fail. now, the spill comes just six years after a similar one near santa barbara, california, and all of us remember the bp oil spill in the gulf of mexico that caused massive environmental damage. joining us now is scientist michael man, a penn state professor and director of their earth system science center. it's always great to speak with you. circumstances aside, we should also mention that his latest book is titled "the new climate

war." as i was just mentioning, it seems like our opportunities to speak with you are unfortunately when there are calamities like this one. help us understand, you know, what does crude oil do to marine ecosystems, and then how does that damage trickle down to humans? >> yeah, thanks, geoff. it's good to be with you, you know, but it is unfortunate the circumstances under which we typically speak with one another. and this is the latest reminder of the hidden costs of our addiction to fossil fuels, of our reliance on fossil fuels. in this case, the this oil that's been released that covers an area larger than the city of santa monica off the southern california coast. you know, the oil baically coats things in a way that prevents, you know gases from crossing membranes. it basically suffocates animals. it suffocates marine mammals, birds and fish, and it's very difficult to remove. it's very difficult to remove

both from the ocean once it's, you know, been spilled into it, and it's very difficult to remove from all these sea creatures that have been impacted, and now the oil has spread into some vulnerable marsh areas that are home to very large numbers of bird populations, this is really tragic, and it's a reminder of the damage that's being done by our continued reliance on oil, coal, natural gas, fossil fuels. >> we should explain to our audience, i think most people who when they think of california beaches, they just think of a pristine landscape. i didn't know until i lived there that oil refineries really dot the entire coast, especially in southern california, and you had some residents in huntington, beach, they said that they noticed an oil sheen and what smelled like just petroleum in the air. they noticed that on a friday. the coast guard didn't get involved until saturday afternoon, and then you had the

company say that they were responsible saturday night. that's a long time. i would think that in california of all places, they would have a more robust response mechanism than that. >> yeah, well, you know, again, the reporting, the early reporting wasn't as, you know, as urgent as it should have been. the fact that this spill had occurred, we still don't know exactly by whom, but we know it was from a pipeline. it wasn't reported for some time, and so it had already done a huge amount of damage by the time that the various, you know, agencies had been informed and could start to take some action. but let's make it very clear. right now we're having a debate in this country about infrastructure. now, there's good infrastructure, clean energy, and there's bad infrastructure, continued pipelines. these continued fossil fuel pipelines are leading both to these environmental disasters,

but they're also leading to the burning of fossil fuels. the increase in carbon pollution, and here's the irony, the carbon pollution is warming the oceans generating more ferocious tropical storms and hurricanes, and one thing we haven't talked much about is the fact that there were hundreds of oil spills in the wake of hurricane ida, this very powerful storm. and so the irony, the fossil fuels that we're burning are creating these more powerful storms that are leading to these environmental disasters. we have to get off of this path, we have to transition away from fossil fuels towards renewable energy as quickly as possible at this point. >> it's yet another warning and wake-up call, michael man, it's great to see you. thanks for joining us. coming up an apology tour, can an american mediator move the french past their claims of back stabbing and betrayal, the tough task ahead for secretary of state tony blinken. andrea's live in paris coming up next when "andrea mitchell reports" continues right here on msnbc.

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the taliban is targeting isis militants in afghanistan after terrorists struck a mosque in kabul this weekend during the funeral for the high profile taliban spokesman's mother. isis has just claimed responsibility for that attack, and the taliban are clearly retaliating already for it. all this is raising new concerns over the security situation following the u.s. withdrawal. over the weekend, afghanistan's ambassador to the u.s. spoke to jonathan swan of "axios" about conditions for afghan women now that the the u.s. is gone. >> there has to be conditions on taliban that they commit to the achievements that the afghan society has made. >> did you get the sense that president biden cared about the fate of afghan women? >> i don't think so. he said the u.s. could not be the police of the world to

protect women in any other country. >> very tough statement from afghanistan's ambassador. of course that's the outgoing government, the ghani government. joining me now, michael crowley, "new york times" diplomatic correspondent, david ignatius, and anne gearan "the washington post" white house correspondent. michael, first to you, the taliban is targeting isis militants after that weekend blast, and now isis has claimed responsibility. is this heating up and now the taliban are going to have to take isis-k head on? >> yeah, absolutely. i mean, you know, one result of the collapse of the afghan security forces is the taliban have lost their ally in this joint battle against isis. that was the one form of sort of de facto cooperation in afghanistan between the taliban and the afghan government. isis is a common enemy for both of them. i have seen some compelling

commentary to the effect that as the taliban tries to somewhat moderate -- i emphasize somewhat -- its practices in the hope of gaining international recognition and foreign aid, there are going to be radicals within its ranks who say basically, hey, the leadership has sold out. they're not tough enough anymore, and you can see defections to isis. or more popularity for isis, and that's going to be a big problem. >> and anne gearan, you know, women have now been excluded not only from the government, but also from the leading university in kabul, many of the advances that they made under -- when the u.s. was there now that the taliban are back, the white house doesn't want to talk about that aspect of the withdrawal, do they? >> no, andrea, they really don't. i mean, it's true that joe biden has in his many past iterations, expressed the same kind of

support for afghan women and for u.s. support in service of their advancement, that -- you know, that many of his critics are expressing now. but you know, as president he has decided that the thing to do is to withdraw afghanistan and make as clean a break as possible, and while it is regrettable that that means that there is not u.s. support on the ground that can guarantee the kind of advancement for afghan women we've been able to support over the last 20 years, his calculation as the ambassador indicated there is that, you know, the united states cannot be that enforcer. that is not the right position for the united states to take. and while joe biden might dearly hope that afghan women were able to preserve their gains that we helped to buy for them, he's not going to risk -- take the risk of leaving troops there or do other politically risky things in his view to try to make that

happen. >> and david ignatius, the cia has played a very important role. of course, in afghanistan. now that we don't have, quote, boots on the ground, what about the final days and the way the cia has you've been writing about try to take care of their allies? >> from early on, created a force of afghans who were known as the counterterrorist and per suit teams which operated in remote areas in the east and south of afghanistan, chasing the remnants of al qaeda, and deep bonds developed through those relationships. and the cia was very proud that it managed during these chaotic months following president biden's decision in april to get out of afghanistan, to get all -- more than 20,000 of the

cia afghan allies and their families out of the country. that's not to say the state department hasn't been trying. the state department's behavior in the last two weeks of the withdrawal was pretty amazing and courageous. but the cia's performance was extraordinary. they feel good about keeping faith. this question of how you keep faith with the afghan women is i think one of the hardest ones that the u.s. is going to face. >> and amidst everything else, the last thing that the white house needed was an argument with france. michael, you point out in the article that when secretary blinken came to paris earlier this year, he got a warm reception. a lot has to do with the fact that regrew up here. he went to high school in france. his mother still lives here. so what are the chances he's going to get this same warm hug from the french when he arrived today after this submarine deal? >> well, he'll get a hug.

it may not be the warmest one, maybe not as warm as the one in june when he came in and very elegantly sort of sauntered in, spoke fluent french, name-checked french television shows. he's still a passionate fan of french national football. i think the french felt extra betrayed when they learned from a media leak about their submarine deal with australia had fallen apart and was going to be replaced by a deal between australia and the united states. the up side administration officials say is that as they repair the bruised feelings here, who better than affluent french speaker with close ties to paris than secretary of state like tony blinken to speak to the french in their native language, speak their language literally and figuratively. >> how much of a snub would it be if macron doesn't see him?

>> it's not a default that the president would see the secretary of state. although, blinken did meet with macron on his last visit. i think if there is a meeting, it would be perceived as a clear sign the french are signaling we can move past this. if not, i think the french is holding out. i think they want concessions. they want some kind of payback for the harm they say they've suffered. to some degree, they might be trying to leverage more out of the administration. we'll see what blinking is willing to give on this trip. >> my thanks to you, michael. great reporting. great reporting on tony blinken's childhood in france and david ignatius, of course on the cia and what they have done to get their allies and to get the folks out has been just really heroic. and ann, it's always great to see you. here i am in paris without you guys, but hopefully we'll all be on a trip soon and we're going to be back in a moment with more

live from paris when the special edition of "andrea mitchell reports" continues only right here on msnbc. ght here on msnbc.

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paris. secretary blinken is going to land in the french capitol a couple hours from now. as he navigates the diplomatic stress points, what will you be watching for? >> well, i think when we see him coming here today, we're going to see what kand of reception he gets tomorrow with the meetings with the french. will the president macron meet with him, and if so, how may secretary blinken make it up to the french? thousands of jobs going into an election year. there's a lot of politics at play. the u.s. grabbed that contract from them. there's also bound to be conversation about afghanistan. the french feel we ignored their advice and the advice of others in nato not to pull out so quickly. and there will be talks tomorrow on climate, and the commitments the europeans are making tomorrow to the conference the global conference in glasgow at the end of the month. so there's a lot of work to do

before that climate summit in glasgow, and jeff will be talking about that here. see you tomorrow. back to you. >> absolutely. all right. and that does it for this edition of andrea mitchell reports. remember to follow the show online and on facebook and twitter at mitchel reports. you can follow me. mtp daily starts right now. >> if it's monday, president biden warns of economic catastrophe amid a standoff with republicans over raising the nation's debt ceiling. as he tries to navigate a standoff with democrats. two in particular over the fate of his legislative agenda. plus the whistleblower behind a trove of leaked documents and revelations on facebook has gone public. accusing the platform of pe trail of democracy. and officials are about to speak in california with an update on that 13 square mile oil spill off the coast which has environmental expes