glasgow, and jeff will be talking about that here. see you tomorrow. back to you. >> absolutely. all right. and that does it for this edition of andrea mitchell reports. remember to follow the show online and on facebook and twitter at mitchel reports. you can follow me. mtp daily starts right now. >> if it's monday, president biden warns of economic catastrophe amid a standoff with republicans over raising the nation's debt ceiling. as he tries to navigate a standoff with democrats. two in particular over the fate of his legislative agenda. plus the whistleblower behind a trove of leaked documents and revelations on facebook has gone public. accusing the platform of pe trail of democracy. and officials are about to speak in california with an update on that 13 square mile oil spill off the coast which has environmental experts

warning of an ecological disaster. welcome to "meet the press daily. to give you a sense of just how much is on the administration's plate right now, the president ended last week trying to break the stalemate with democrats over his legislative agenda, and now he begins this week with a warning on the economy akmid a still mate with republicans over raising the debt limit which will be breached in two weeks if not sooner. >> the days ahead even before the default date, people may see the value of their retirement accounts shrink. they may see interest rates go up which will ultimately rage their mortgage and par payments, and the american people, look, just say it this way. as soon as this week your

savings in your become pocketbook could be directly impacted by this republican stunt. >> that's pretty serious stuff. the president urged republicans to stand down. right now democrats don't intend to try to raise the debt ceiling without them. widen told reporters the future of the economy might lie with one person. mitch mcconnell. the bottom line is there's a dual urgency for the white house. avoid a potential political catastrophe if the agenda fizzles. progressives got a big boost by agreeing to link passage of his infrastructure and reconciliation bills together. even if it takes weeks or months to pass them. he also tried to appease moderates by telling the party that the price tag for the reconciliation package will have to come down. probably by more than a trillion dollars. but progressives definitely came out of those meetings in a stronger position than the

moderates which is going to ratchet up pressure on those two democratic senators, joe manchin and kyrsten sinema. more about them later. the president all but called them out today for holding things up. >>. >> reporter: why were you unable, mr. president, to close the deal with members of your own part on key parts of your economic agenda? >> i was able to close the deal with 99% of my party. two. two people. >> reporter: it sounds like you're putting the blame squarely on two u.s. senators for the ability to close the deal, senators sinema and manchin. am i correct? is to that who the blame lies with? >> look, i need 50 votes. >> with so much on the line for the president and democrats, that pressure is only going to increase. joining me now, lee ann caldwell with the latest from capitol hill and kelly o'donnell at the white house. it's a new week in congress. a lot of member went home to

lick their wounds at the end of last week. it was pretty trying for a lot of folks. there's also now a new deadline on infrastructure. so what's the state of play for these discussions as we're starting to look at the end of this month? >> yeah. there is a new deadline. october 31st. and so what democrats are doing this week is trying to reset. we know that the house of representatives is still at home. they are not coming back. they're in recess for this week. but these negotiations continue. we also know that senator schumer, the majority leader is holding his normal weekly leadership meeting this afternoon, and on his leadership team are two key senators, senator joe manchin and senator bernie sanders. so we expect in that meeting to be a lot of discussion about the path forward on this multitrillion dollar human infrastructure bill, and how those two sides can reach an agreement. but it is undeniable that there is increased pressure on the arizona democrats, kyrsten

sinema. she's getting a lot of pressure from activists and at home. and she's getting a lot of pressure from her colleagues on capitol hill to be more transparent about what she wants and where she stands. although, people close to senator sinema insist that president biden and leader schumer have known exactly what she wants since early august. so while she doesn't negotiate in the press, they insist that the people who need to know know what she wants in this legislation. but it's still extremely difficult balancing act as these democratic leaders in the white house try to maneuver to get these two sides on the same page, especially when senator sinema and manchin have a lot of power to hold things up. now, the alternate argument is people like senator warren and sanders, they say they also have an equal amount of power to direct the path of this legislation. but so far manchin and cinema

seem to be outmaneuvering them, and we know that just last week president biden told house democrats that the $3.5 trillion is going to have to be scaled back. >> lee ann, let's talk about the debt ceiling piece of the puzzle. leader schumer had a letter this morning saying he wants to deal with it this week. obviously he got a little bit of air support from president biden holding that press conference and focusing on the issue here. but how do senate democrats plan to attack the debt ceiling issue this week? and if they don't get it done this week, they're kind of running out of time for the last worst case scenario option of trying to fix it through reconciliation, aren't they? >> yeah. they are. my sources are telling me it should take about seven days if they want to add the debt limit to the lekken silluation bill. now, that is an enormous amount of time since there isn't a lot of time left before this october -- all the other things they have to deal with. let's leave it at that. there is more than seven days left before the october deadline

where the country would default according to the treasury secretary. they have an option, not an option the democrats want in part because if they do it through the reconciliation process, as you have reported, they can't just suspend the debt limit. they have to put a very scary number of what they want that debt limit to be. now, leader mcconnell has released a letter just a little bit ago saying once again, that they are going to play no part and pointing out that president biden and during the bush administration said that he took the same position then that mcconnell has now. that it should be a partisan process, because of a partisan agenda moving forward. >> and kelly o'donnell at the white house, i'm curious, what were your take aways on both the kind of top line pressure from president biden to solve this debt ceiling piece and the fact that he's laid the challenges of getting his agenda passed squarely at the feet of those two moderate democratic

senators. >> well, garrett, i was in the state dining room for the president's event. i asked him about the letter from leader mcconnell about the debt ceil, and the president says he has seen it and intends to talk to mcconnell about his position. the president also wanting to sort of set the public awareness that democrats may. have to do this on their own. that is something democratic voters who have been engaged on this issue are interested in it. probably needed to hear it from the president to try to get them all in line with the steps they need to take. and then on the issue of his agenda items, the president was clear he didn't want to negotiate publicly. we've seen plenty of that from all kinds of office holders. he was clear that the two senators are really the final two yeses he needs to somehow obtain. where that number is, somewhere around $1.5 trillion is what senator manchin has said publicly. we know that progressives want it to be higher. where is that point? the president wouldn't get into

specifics publicly. this was an opportunity for the president to start the week by exerting some pressure from the white house in places where he hopes it will do some good, and at the same time, trying to inform the public by talking about things like the impact of debt ceiling on 401k and retirement plans. that sometimes gets people dialing their lawmakers and we know all of us who have covered capitol hill, how influential that can be. and to try to set a bit of the expectations for what still needs to come on his own agenda. the president will be traveling tomorrow heading to michigan. other stops coming this week to talk about the substance of what's in his spending priority wish list. and trying to get the public to understand what they could gain if senators do fall in line on the democratic side and if they can get this through. so it's a lot of work still for the president to try to bring his own party together on key issues that will really have a big impact on many american's lives. >> yeah. after a couple of weeks on the

defensive, interesting to see the white house out there trying to set the agenda and focus the conversation on the things they want to talk about. thank you both. i'm joined now by a democratic congressman in the white house transportation and infrastructure committee. intimately involved with the negotiations around both the bills. congressman, you have the start of a new week, a new deadline. where are the negotiations on the house side going now? >> well, i think they're going to go very, were well, but it's not going to be done in the next couple days but in the month of october. what we've heard, and we've got to listen carefully and move aside from the other things. manchin wanted a lower number and also specific things. as has cinema. cinema wants to be -- wants more on the climate piece of it. all of those are possible. also some of the progressives in the house side have side well, maybe we can move off the

$3.5 trillion. so there's room for negotiations here. you can change the dates. it's a ten-year program spread over ten years. 3.5 trillion. cut it to five years. suddenly you're down to 1.75 trillion. you've got to talk about the individual programs that are here. the largest tax cut ever for middle class americans is in the reconciliation bill. also the child tax credit. all of those things specifically 39 million families will benefit. climate change issues. money for the kinds of things that we need to do to move away from petroleum and coal. all those things are in the bill. so yes, the president's going to go out and talk about it. with regard to the debt limit, keep in mind it is the republican filibuster that is blocking the bill that is protectly in the senate. we passed that bill twice. it's sitting over there in the senate. it's a filibuster. it is mcconnell's unwillingness to release his members to allow

the democrats to vote on it. he is blocking it. he can say what he wants to say. the facts are it is a filibuster by the republicans that is blocking the 50 democrats plus the vice president. >> yeah. it's tough when the other side doesn't have something they want to negotiate for. you touched on this a little bit i think in your answer just now. it's like there's a debate going on around democrats as you try to figure out how the package will get smaller. and even everyone i think acknowledges it will get smaller. whether that means taking certain programs and saying we're not going to do these because we can't do them as well for less money. where do you fall on the idea of kind of shrinking programs, setting deadlines a little bit shorter, or if there are things you look at in that reconciliation bill as it exists and say maybe we set this aside for another day? >> we're not going to set it aside. we're going to move things forward. the house of representatives, all of our committees in the house, ways and means, all of them, even the transportation committee, we worked months and

months, particularly two months, august and september, on drafting the reconciliation bill to meet the needs of americans. it's in the bill. would we cut anything out? i certainly don't want to cut out the climate. i certainly don't want to cut out the child tax credit or cut out the other piece of it is, major corporations. the wealthy paying their fair share. so the bill is balanced as it is today. i think the best way to do it is to reduce the number of years. five years would cut it in half. six years, okay, we can go up to seven. seven and a half years, whatever the agreed upon number, but the programs are what is essential here. the increased taxes on the wealthy to pay for all this. it's 100% paid for. 3.5 trillion. cut it in half, 100% paid for, and -- go ahead. >> i was going to say it's always easier to create the programs and then force a future

congress to decide to try to get rid of a program that you hope would be popular. right? i mean, by setting these up even on a shorter timetable, you're telling future congress look, we've put this program in place. do you keep it or not? once the programs are on the table, they tend to stick around. i want to ask about the timing of all this. house democrats got themselves in trouble last week with the deadline that wasn't a real deadline at least in terms of a necessary deadline to pass the infrastructure framework by the end of last week. i know you were someone who wanted to pass it right away when it was ready. are you confident that you can get both pieces of this done in time to meet what is a little bit more of a real deadline at the end of this month, and are you frustrated that the president has essentially put you in a place where now you have a deadline to do both of these things in this month? >> i remember a professor that set a deadline called the final exam. he meant it.

is october 30th a real deadline? it's not. it's probably a midterm if you would use the saying. we've got the time to get this done, and we're going to get it done. that's the key piece of it. the american public wants infrastructure. they want their streets and roads. they want their water system and want to get rid of lead pipes and make sure we're building for the future and electric system that will meet the needs of a society that is not depending on coal and oil. they want those things. will we deliver it? yes. does it have to be delivered during the month of october? it would certainly be the wise thing to do. we're not going to die on a date. we're going to die on -- we're not going to die at all. we're going to get this thing done. i want to keep in mind that we've got to deal with the reality of the senate. in which case there is two senators over there and also four democrats among the 222 of us that could kill the bill in the house of representatives.

so it's very touch and go. we've got to put together the compromises. >> believe me. i hear that. i'll be following especially the two senators as closely as i can this week while they're in washington d.c. congressman, i have to leave it there. thank you for coming on. >> my pleasure. thank you. all right. up next, a major ongoing outage at facebook, instagram, and whatsapp. just one day after the facebook whistleblower went public. after leaking a trove of documents that's exposed some revelations about the platform. the late us on her allegations and the social media's response coming up later, new reporting former president trump's plans. s plans. a ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ got a couple of bogeys on your six, limu. they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need.

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global outage preventing users from accessing three of the platforms. facebook, instagram, and whatsapp. it's preparing for potentially damning testimony. by a whistleblower. she left the company in may and took tens of thousands of documents. she says the documents proves facebook cares more about the bottom line than society's well being. >> facebook has shown it chooses profit over safety. it is subsidizing, paying for the profits with our safety. >> se she also says facebook has profited off polarization at the expense of democracy at large. >> when we live in an information environment that is full of angry hateful polarizing content, it erodes our civic trust and faith in each other. it erodes our ability to want to care for each other. the version of facebook that is

today is tearing our societies apart and causing ethnic violence around the world. >> facebook is defending its efforts, releasing a statement that reads every day our teams have to balance protecting the rights of billions of people to express themselves open with the need to keep our flat form a safe and positive place. we continue to make significant improvements to tackle the spread of misinformation. to suggest we encourage bad content and do nothing is not true. one of the reporters behind a wall street journal series joins me now. we have this senate hearing tomorrow. what is left for lawmakers to ask the whistleblower tomorrow? and if you were a senator and knew you had this witness under oath in your committee, what would you want to ask? >> well, we've only really seen the tip of the iceberg when it comes to what's in the documents.

we've done a lot of reporting around these documents. there's more reporting to come. but there is a wealth of information in here, and a lot of which we haven't quite touched on yet. you know, i'm not a senator. i'm not going to be able to tell you what i think they should ask, but there is just an extraordinary number of themes and numbers and all kinds of things that need to be uncovered. and we'll see what she says tomorrow. >> is -- of the themes that present themselves here, do you think it's more interesting kind of what we've learned about face or what we've learned about facebook's effort to make sure we didn't learn those things about facebook? >> so i think what you're asking is to what extent is it important that facebook -- that this research happening within facebook or is it more compelling that facebook saw this research and then did nothing about it? and i think -- >> that's a good way to ask the question, too. >> you know, honestly, i think it's the latter.

i think a lot of the anger and outrage, at least the mail i'm getting in my inbox is about the fact that they didn't know about this from facebook. just taking the teen girl research just as one specific example. the research doesn't say that instagram is bad for all teen girls. that's not the sort of underlying basis. what it says is for some teen girls, especially girls dealing with issues of depression, anxiety or body image issues, that for them, instagram can be pretty harmful. so the company up until now has been talking about how for there are good effects for a lot of teen girls, and there are positives to social media, and yeah, there's some bad things, but what we really need to do, and we need to do a lot to address them, but on the whole, t good. and what this research shows is that there's more nuance and depth to that research. that for some teens, there are

really damaging effects. and so there needs -- what's happening now is sort of a level set in the conversation where people aren't just taking facebook's word for it. they want to know more about what the company knows and what they're research shows. >> i want to stay on instagram for a minute and play something that was said on 60 minutes last night about instagram and what facebook knows about the effects. >> and what's super tragic is facebook's own research says as these young women begin to consume this content, they get more and more depressed. and actually it makes them use the app more. and so they end up in this feedback cycle where they hate their bodies more and more. facebook's own research says it is not just that instagram is dangerous fortarians and harms teenagers. it is that it is distinctly worse than other forms of social media. >> so facebook is a public

company too. they have a profit motive, a due -- fiduciary duty to investors. where do they think their responsibility is both morally and i suppose even just you want to be totally lifrd brain, as a business practice. you can't do this kind of thing to your customers and continue to succeed as a business. >> i think one thing that's kind of important to know as you step back, there's a ton of conscientious people that work at facebook. none of the people that i know want their -- the instagram to harm the mental health of teen girls. that's not the objective. but the problem is that it's inconvenient, and so they've got all this research that shows that certain types of content can be triggering. celebrity content, fashion content. that cuts directly against some of the areas that instagram has been investing in. they're encouraging more celebrity content and more

fashion content. they like that stuff, because it holds people on the platform. and so there's a tension there between here are things, here are topics that a lot of people like and aren't harmed by, but the subset is deeply harmed by, and how do you tease out -- how do you help them? or -- but at the same time, not lose lots of money? we see this again and again and again in the documents. it's that there's a certain amount of harm that's exposed through the research. and then facebook not quite knowing what to do, because some of the solutions might harm engagement. and that tradeoff that is being talked about is one that me and my colleagues that have been covering facebook for a few years have heard at paris times. that this is an important tension within the company. they have this responsibility to investors but also that they talk about a lot to individual users to make sure that the product minimizes the bad and

amplifies the good, but here those two goals are at tension. >> can i ask you also about the controversy here over the content that related to the january 6th attack on the capitol just outside our window, my workplace and the accusations that facebook essentially turned off its own moderating algorithms and might have led to a spike in the kind of content that motivated those people. what is facebook saying about that and your reporting from the documents indicated? >> so our reporting from all these documents show that -- well, i guess maybe we'll take a step back and think about the fact that facebook is a platform that's very much informed by mark zuckerberg's views on speech. and for him, more speech is better than less speech. he talked about this a lot. he says there is a lot of value in making sure that people have a voice. wlorpt you disagree with that. that has filtered dun to a lot

of policies. it's taken a long time for facebook to do things like ban holocaust denial, because it's been this debate within the company whether that's right, whether it's right to limit and curtail people's speech. but over time as there's been this connection between speech and violence, not just here, but myanmar and a lot of countries, the company has stepped up the policies in -- to meet those evolving responsibilities. but when it comes to something like the 2020 election, they put in all the different break class measures is what they call them to ensure that violence didn't percolate and there aren't major issues. but then that at the same time cuts against the underlying philosophy of the company which is that yeah, within parameters, within the parameters that they set, there should be free speech. and so there's this push/pull within the company about what that looks like and what those

responsibilities are. and -- but up until now, they've always aired on the side of more speech, and now what francis is bringing up is that this inherent tex and what happens when it potentially could lead to violence. >> all right. we got to leave it there. thank you for coming on, and for the excellent work you're doing on this topic for the journal. this story is going to continue to develop as this whistleblower testifies tomorrow on capitol hill, and we will keep following it. up next, cleaning up the latest coronavirus confusion. what dr. fauci is now saying act americans going home for the holidays. you're watching "meet the press daily". e press daily" ♪ ♪

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wherever you go. schedule your free flu shot and covid-19 vaccine today. welcome back. here's some news i wanted to stay say for a while. we start this week with the pandemic trending in the right direction. the daily average of new cases has decreased every day for the past two weeks bringing us to a daily average of 108,000. that's a 35% decrease in the last month alone. and, in fact, the fda announced the number of key meetings in the coming weeks, among them is a two-day advisory committee meeting to consider booster shots for people who got the moderna and johnson & johnson vaccines. despite this good news, dr. fauci says now is not the time to let our guards down. he was on cnn earlier today clarifying some confusion over comments he made yesterday about the holidays. take a listen. >> the best way to assure that we'll be in good shape as we get

into the winter would be to get more and more people vaccinated. that was misinterpreted as my saying we can't spend christmas with our families. what was absolutely not the case. i will be spending this christmas with my family. i encourage people particularly the vaccinated people who are protected to have a good, normal christmas with your family. >> dr. fauci's ungrinching of himself comes as the cdc put out a list of recommendations urging some safety precautions for indoor gatherings like getting vaccinated and keeping spaces well ventilated. let's dig into the day and the week with a primary care physician and former director under president obama. a lot of people are starting to request days off for holidays. what do you make of dr. fauci and the cdc's guidelines around holiday recommendations? there was obviously kind of a

cleanup on aisle 7 situation, but what do viewers need to know as they think about their holiday gatherings? >> i think the key thing is that we don't know what the holidays will bring unless you can kind of guarantee that you keep the crowd small, limit it to mostly vaccinated people, and, of course, with children's vaccines potentially being one of the key meetings during the fda's month of october, that could be a big game changer. i mean, a lot of what dr. fauci has had to give pretty sound advice on has been because under 12 people are not vaccinated. immune compromised people are basically unprotected. the most people at a household gathering, the better protection, the higher the confidence if vaccinated. if case rates stay low, we'll have an incredible holiday season. if we can vaccinate more people, we deserve to reward the benefits come from those kind of hard-earned vaccinations and what we've been doing the last 20 months.

>> when i first heard dr. fauci's originally comments, i was reminded of something andrew cuomo said during one of his prez briefings where he talked about the idea from a public health perspective, your mandates and things you put in place are only as good as knowing people will follow them. as the pandemic goes longer, how much harder is it for public officials like dr. fauci to put recommendations or mandates in place when people are just so exhausted by the rules they have been following for so long? does it get more challenging from from a public health perspective to recommend things you know people aren't going to want to follow? >> it does. i've been reading and keeping up with the guidelines. i'm getting exhausted at the idea of another virtual holiday. so i think your point is correct. we have mandates and vaccines now. that's a huge game-changer from last holiday season. it has to be the mandates this. we need to send a signal it's true. the vaccines work. we need to have some of that

confidence come back. it's a fine line. it's not the nuanced messaging the cdc is used to giving. i think that's why we're going to continue to watch the case rates. continue to encourage vaccination. and then like i said, i'm looking -- i'm not expecting every child to get vaccinated, but the advent of pediatric vaccines will signal a shift that i think will put a lot more consumer confidence just back out there and we need that, and we need to message that as scientific officials. follow the science. but also follow the science to know that we're safe and protected when we're vaccinated and what that means if your household can celebrate which we can if we're vaccinated. >> of the two october meetings, the j&j, mo der ma, questions about boosters, is the pediatric vaccine the bigger potentially game changer for the long-term trajectory of the pandemic? >> it is. but i look for those other fda meetings. it's not just about the boosters. it's also about the mix and match.

we're all waiting because we're seeing global data on how if yo pfizer booster. we'll see more data. it's going to be important. the real world of giving out vaccines like i did to patients is we'll need to have this flexibility. all three meetings are going to be key. moderna, j&j and the pediatric vaccines. i think culturally the pediatric vaccine meetings going to feel like the beginning of the end for the country. it's well-deserved. >> i know so many parents who will be breathing so much easier when their kids can get vaccinated. doctor, thank you very much. >> thank you. and up next, breaking news on the oil spill off the coast of california as questions grow about the impact to wildlife, the economy, and the speed of the initial response. you're watching "meet the press daily". atching "meet the press daily" -well, audrey's expecting... -twins! grandparents! we want to put money aside for them, so...change in plans. alright, let's see what we can adjust.

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welcome back. we're following breaking news out of california where officials are warning of a potential ecological disaster

after an oil pipeline leaked spewing more than 126,000 gallons of oil into the beaches. several beaches have been closed and the pipeline believed to be the source of the leak has been shut down. officials just finished giving an update on the situation and erin joins me now from new port beach. erin, what have we learned this morning? >> reporter: hey, garrett. that's right. officials just gave an update with respect to the impact on the local wildlife. they're saying they're cautiously optimistic. particularly with the impact on the number of birds in the area. it's always a concern when it comes to oil spills. they say that they believe there have been less of an impact on birds in the area than originally feared. that said, it's only one component when you look at the overall damage from an oil spill of this size. overnight officials expanding the area of impact from huntington beach all the way today in a point, shutting down

beaches. shutting down fisheries and marshlands and wetlands. they say the oil has crept into those areas. they've had all hands on deck approach in terms of the cleanup, deploying thousands of buoys. so far they say they've collected some 1200 gallons of oily water. it's a drop in the bucket when you consider the water dumped. they're concerned with the type of crude oil dumped into the bay. it's post production crude. they say it's hazardous to wildlife and people in the area, urging anyone who has any sort of side effects dizziness, nausea, headaches to seek medical attention. concerned about the air quality. >> thank you. up next, the new term of the supreme court starts today. with the future of roe v. wade at stake, you're watching "meet the press daily". ess daily"

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must-watch? >> i think everybody could see the mississippi case. it limits abortion after 15 weeks. it would basically ban it after 15 weeks. that is a direct challenge to roe v. wade for this reason. roe and following decisions have said states can restrict access during the period of pregnancy before viability which is generally thought to be 23 to 24 weeks. but they can't ban it in that period. along comes mississippi. it would ban it before that. that's a direct challenge to roe and the state in the brief says the supreme court should overturn roe v. wade. roe v. wade is on the chopping block this term. you mentioned the gun case. it's a test of what does the second aem mean when it says there's a right to keep and bear arms. you wouldn't think of bearing arms in the house. the supreme court said there is an individual right to have a gun at home for self-defense. this asked the questions, what about outside the home.

>> on the abortion case you have a texas law waiting in the wings. are there other state laws being almost designed for this purpose to become other challenges to roe? >> well, both of these fit that definition. they were very much passed to directly challenge roe, and there are other cases pending. the supreme court is not going to do anything. if other appeals come, they'll hold them until they decide the mississippi case. it really is the central question. the texas case you're right. the supreme court a month ago allowed the law to take effect. but it's undoubtedly going to come back before this term is over one way or the other. >> in terms of the timeframe, when we see the decisions being rolled out? >> when you're grandchildren are born. >> good. >> we'll probably not see them until the end of the term. these contentious cases, they go back and forth. i wouldn't think we'd see the abortion decision before the end of june. the gun case maybe earlier. the abortion case is argued december 1st. the gun case in november. there's a case about religion in

public support for religious schools. that could come out a little earlier. >> just in time to be major animating factors in the midterms? . >> no doubt. >> pete williams, thank you very much. >> you bet. coming up, donald trump's 2024 presidential >> thank you very much, pete williams. coming up, what donald trump's candidacy in waiting means for democracy. you're watching "meet the press daily." alka seltzer plus cold relief. dissolves quickly. instantly ready to start working. so you can bounce back fast with alka-seltzer plus.

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are you going to run again,

mr. president? >> oh, that's a tough question. actually for me it's easy question. i know what i'm going to do but we're not supposed to be talking about it yet from the standpoint of campaign finance laws which are ridiculous, but i think you're going to be happy. >> welcome back. that was former president trump last month teasing a run in 2024 when asked about it on the 20th anniversary of september 11th, of all days. according to new reporting in "the washington post," trump considered formally announcing his campaign around that time following the chaotic afghanistan withdrawal but his advisers convinced him that such an early entrance was not worth the political risk or the legal headaches. still, the groundwork is clearly being laid behind the scenes for the next election as trump and his allies continue to push the lie that the last election was rigged against him. it leaves potential republican presidential hopefuls not named trump holding their breath and democracy advocates wondering what a trump 2024 comeback could

mean for the country. here is michael shearer, one of the reporters behind "the post"'s deep dive behind the trump 2024 operation. michael, the key question is hour serious is former president trump in trying to take back the white house and what kind of groundwork are we talking about, what does his campaign in waiting look like? >> i think at the moment he's very serious. with president trump you always have to put an asterisk on statements like that because he does change his mind. it doesn't mean he'll still be here as serious in two years. in terms of the apparatus right now, he has built a rather large leadership pac. he's fundraising aggressively. that money is not easily transferred to a presidential campaign but it does allow him to support other candidates right now. he's also started to hire up a political staff including two key operatives in iowa, including eric branstad, who is the son of the former governor of iowa, about as big a get as

you would want if you want to compete in the iowa caucus in 2024. the discussion is whether it would be better for his 2024 election to announce now, tie himself to the midterms directly, allow democrats to campaign against him, because the moment he announces, a midterm election becomes wholly about president trump, or whether it's better for him to just support candidates that he likes in the hopes that he'll get payback down the road, that he can sort of build his network beyond even where it is now, and then declare victory. if republicans retake the house, retake the senate, there's zero doubt president trump will claim 100% of the credit. and in the meantime, he's going to continue traveling the country. he's got another rally this saturday in iowa of all places at the fairgrounds. and almost certainly you will hear him deliver the same sort of wink and nod hints as in the

clip you played at the top of the segment, suggesting we have a great victory coming in 2024, you're going to be very happy, and things like that, without triggering the campaign finance law. >> there's nothing that would make congressional democrats in 2022 happier than have a trump 2024 campaign going to run against him without him being on the ballot. it would be the dream scenario like they saw in 2018. i have two questions, one, about a primary, who does the former president worry about if he does choose to run in a primary, if anyone? i can't imagine a mike pence or a mike pompeo gets any traction with the former boss in the race. >> it's a crowded primary if trump isn't in the race. if trump is in the race, right now the former president is saying he doesn't worry about any of them. aides will particular through his potential rifles, rick scott, ron desantis, mike pence,

all making moves, all meeting with donors or visiting iowa. there's a dozen other people you can add to that list as well. right now the president says he's not worried about any of that group. i think, you know, at the current status, it's unlikely any of those people would be able to make the argument which basically is the only way to beat former president trump in a primary, which is that president trump is a great guy, we love what he did the last four years but he's just not the best person to represent the party in 2024, he'll lose it for us. in a different environment, you could make that environment. after the midterms, that could change. >> the party has so fully embraced him at this point. moving on to a general election matchup, you're talking a guy who lost by 7 million votes. how do you see a trump campaign dovetailing with all these voting changes, state

legislatures trying to change the way so many states like a georgia, for example, might count votes and could put him over the line even if the votes aren't necessarily there? >> it's really hard to tell at this point. you'll have legal challenges at the state level. you also have the real possibility that the democrats in congress figure out a way to pass some voting reforms of their own before the midterms. and if that happens, that complicates things further. i think what we do know is especially if president trump is on the ballot, the legitimacy of the election will be in doubt for a big part of the country. and the legitimatecy will be ev more on the ballot. that is inescapable thanks to former president trump. he brought it up in his rally in georgia, it will be a centerpiece no doubt at his rally in iowa. he keeps hammering, like he did about obama's birth before his first run, this misinformation about the last election not

being conclusive against him. for him, it's incredibly beneficial to rally his base. >> a fascinating echo of the last trump campaign that worked, i suppose. michael shearer, thank you. and thank you all for being with us this hour. chuck will be back tomorrow with more "meet the press daily." msnbc coverage continues with geoff bennett right now. it is great to be with you. i'm geoff bennett. a meteor is headed to crash into our economy. that is a direct quote from president biden at the white house this morning. and in a town known for performative outrage and hyperbole, this time the apocalyptic rhetoric appears pretty fitting. >> the days ahead, even before the default date, people may see the value of their retirement accounts shrink. they may see interest rates go up which will ultimately raise th