♪♪ knows that if they are doing it and so in the intelligence world inspiring an espionage you don't just put offense to play defense.

and in bad shining cover spinal those that only get right on airplanes where the spies worry about what kind of guns he has. there isn't a lot of defensive side of it, but in real intelligence work, and even better spinal's, defending yourself against other countries spying efforts is basically half the game. that part of it is called counterintelligence, you figure out who is trying to spy on you, how they are working, how are they are trying to carry out their spying, what country they are working for, who they are reporting to. right you watch the spies were operating against you. you watch the operations and communications. you make sure to trying get to the bottom of what they are doing, you check to see if they have confederates and asians that they have recruited here to do their job. counterintelligence, it's our country's defense against foreign spies that are working against us here at home. you know it's also other

countries defense against our spies in their countries. counterintelligence is one of those over used, but poorly understood phrases. but it does mean something specific, and it is hard work. it's basically twice as hard as spying, right? if you're spying or trying to steal secrets from a foreign government, a foreign military, some sort of target that keep secrets. but if you're in counterintelligence, you are working against spies, right? you are trying to surveil, outsmart, outmaneuver other people who are trained spies. who are trying to lie, steele, act undercover not get cut. it's very hard. you're working against the pros. they don't give counterintelligence jobs to rookies, you have to be very good at it, it's high-level work. and in 1984, in the fbi field office in los angeles california, they had a counterintelligence squad that was focus not just on spies

operating here in this country, but specifically on spies from the soviet union, russian spies, spies for the ussr operating here in 1984, which of course was the apex of the cold war. so this was you know spy versus spy at the highest level, between two very aggressive, very capable big powerful spy agencies for two very powerful countries that were absolute loggerheads, real adversaries. in october 1984 one of our guys, one of the fbi agents on that counter intelligence squad in los angeles, again in charge of monitoring foreign spies, russian spies here. one of the fbi agents on that squad was arrested. accused of having been turned by the russians himself. it was the first time in the history of the fbi that an fbi agent had ever been arrested for spying. it was just absolutely unheard

of, and that night in october 1984 it led the network news nationwide. >> good evening i'm tom -- with nbc nightly news, the fbi today arrested one of its own as a double agents, a spy for the soviet union. the suspected spy is richard miller an fbi agent from many years. he was working counter espionage monument is that we are couple, according to the fbi the russian woman was a major in the kgb they say that miller fell for her, george lewis reports that was a dark moments in the fbi history. >> met in this west hollywood apartment house with the couple and offered to sell government secrets. the price $50,000 in gold and 7000 in cash. richard miller i-1963 graduate of birmingham university was not considered an especially good agent by some of his colleagues. he had been reprimanded several times for sloppy work. at his work in the los angeles

suburb, investigators found a number of stolen classified documents. this is the first time in its history that the fbi has arrested one of its own on spying charges. this is a real emotional time for us. in washington fbi director william webster had this reaction. >> first time that i know of any charge ever being brought, we brought it, we investigated it, and we use the appropriate steps to limit the damage. >> the damage may be that the soviets have learned a few things by fbi techniques to combat flying. miller appeared in court this morning, and entered no plea. he is being held without bail. his wife and one of his eight children were present. miller split his time between his job in los angeles, and his family in san diego. instead to be having serious personal and financial problems. nikolai and svetlana ogorodnikov -- may have been having an affair

with the fbi man. the charges according to the fbi are extremely serious. >> if convicted on these charges, these individuals could receive a maximum penalty of life in prison. >> george lewis, nbc news, los angeles. >> october 1984. the first time an fbi agent was ever arrested, as an accused spy for another country. and he was an fbi counter intelligence agent, which means where he worked on at the fbi was supposedly there running out and monitoring russian spies who were spying here trying to limit the damage they can do. instead according to prosecutors, he made everything much worse, and started working for the russians. now, prosecutors set up the child that one things that russia got from the sky richard miller, was quite literally the fbi's counter intelligence handbook. basically the guidebook for fbi agents that spelled out all of the things the fbi was supposed to do to find russian spies here.

and how to keep tabs on them. that's the worst possible thing for russia to get in the circumstance right? especially 1984 when the cold war was that is worse. but they arrested this agent, they didn't put him on trial, and it turns out a trial even the trial itself got national play, made national news, throughout the trial, because there were tapes. there were actually quite creepy tapes of the fbi guy sleeping with a woman who turns out have been a major in the kgb, him sleeping with her, and all the associated -- . so >> the government says svetlana ogorodnikov and her husband nikolai set a chat for miller. she offered the fbi man sex sympathy and money and exchanges secret files on government operations. mueller testified it was the other way around a james bond fantasy thinking of sex as part of the jobs. he admitted that was stupid,

adding james bond i'm not. the government's case against the russians in miller is based largely on surveillance pictures and wiretaps. fbi cameras caught miller meeting with svetlana ogorodnikov picked up their conversations. [inaudible] [inaudible] >> yes you have taken my heart, you know where it is it's right there. oh my. >> then she says i know the spy, it's my job. the prosecution's case was quite literally, it was her job. she was a russian kgb officer who are flipping a counterintelligence agents into being an asset for the russians and handing over the fbi's harder catch spies manual, was a job well done.

just a hugely damaging, distressing case for the u.s. intelligence, for the u.s. government, for the fbi, because it was so unusual, because of the details of the case. it got a ton of attention. the richard miller case they arrested him in 1984, they tried him in 1985. it was such an explosive case, such a high profile case, such a damaging case, such attention already. the u.s. the ten turning himself personally led the prosecution at the trial in los angeles. and then the prosecution did not succeed. miss trial, on jury. >> a mistrial has been declared in the case of richard miller the only fbi agent ever charged with playing. that is no one else reports, federal prosecutors in los angeles plan to seek a re-trial. >> after 14 days of deliberating, the richard miller cases they were hopelessly deadlocked. -- declared a mistrial and the

jurors were released. the deadlock does not and trouble for richard miller, the government says it will retry the former fbi agent on the same charges of espionage. miller was accused of selling classified fbi documents to a russian couple representing the soviet kgb. the fbi had videotapes of his meeting and love affair with svetlana ogorodnikov. she and her husband nikoli, later pleaded guilty to charges of espionage. >> again so this is the first time an fbi agent ever accused, ever arrested for being in the queue spy, and accused russian spy. he was arrested 1984, put him on trial in 1985, missed trial in a deadlock jury. as you heard there in an nbc broadcast of 1985 with the missile they decided they were trial him again. they re-prosecuted a year later 1986. and again they had the u.s. attorney himself flee the case in the courtroom. that second trial of miller, they did it initially get a conviction but it was overturned because of errors

committed at the trial. so finally, in 1990, they figure they had one last shot at trying to convict the sky. this hugely important national security case, this landmark case in the foreign intelligence service penetrating the fbi in the worst possible way. one last chance to try and convict the guy. they give the guy to the case to a worker snapper a young prosecutor olive 30 years old at the time. he had never lost a case that the time. here's how he tells. it >> quote, in the long history of the federal bureau of investigation of an invitations have everyone accused of betraying the country by spying on a hostile power. to be sure the fbi had been implicated in most areas violations of civil rights under the autocratic rule of jay at her who go, but the idea that the fbi agent would be -- for sex was unthinkable. that is until 1984 and an agent named richard miller, short,

stout, and stop early jest miller appeared to survive on a day of kenny biden soda. he was routinely admonished by his superiors to comply with the bureau standards for professional appearance, he was considered by his colleagues to be equally salvini and his work taking three our lunch rakes at local 7-eleven, selling amway products from the back of his car, and carrying on multiple affairs during work hours. his appearance on fitness notwithstanding, miller had one of the most sensitive positions in the office, as part of its counterintelligence squad. counterintelligence is a confusing topic for the public, but it is how the u.s. government keeps an eye on foreign spies operating in our country, and acts to counter the intelligence gathering efforts of our adversaries. given the particular importance of the fbi's counter intelligence work, as well as that essential access to classified information, many agents in the los angeles field office were mystified that mueller had been assigned to

the unit, yet there wasn't and in a shrewdness and self deprecation to miller, and manipulative ability that allowed him to initiate himself with others. most poor work ethic, financial problems, and his promiscuity made him a prime target for the kremlin. the russian government doesn't waste time trying to corrupt those who are financially secure and you're approachable of character. russian trade craft deliberately focuses on those who are already show signs of weakness, agreed, or other vulnerabilities. miller had been selected as a target by a young asset of the kgb named svetlana ogorodnikov, who along with her husband had emigrated to the united states from the soviet union. the couple was unhappy in their new country and they wanted to go back, but the factors were considered traitors by soviet officials. in order to return, they needed to earn their passage home. miller was svetlana's ticket back, svetlana was gregarious, flirtatious, and attractive,

and miller made an easy mark. when we can as efficiently sanction contacts, documented and reported, soon became illicit meetings in which svetlana had sex with miller, first in his car, later at motels. she also gave him money and gifts. in return he smuggle classified national security information out of the fbi, and provided it to svetlana for her kgb handily. at some point miller's colleagues that the fbi discovered that he had been meeting with svetlana and not reporting it. suspicious, they started telling him shortly before mueller was to fly to vienna to meet with a general and russia 's military intelligence unit, gru, as a counter intelligence -- he was being followed by his fellow agents. before he could be arrested, he went to a supervisors office at the bureau and laid out what would prove to be a difficult defense to overcome. he said he had been secretly meeting with svetlana as part of his efforts to infiltrate the kgb, in what he described

as a double agent scenario. miller was charged with providing classified national defense the rest of the soviets, including the fbi's on manual on his counterintelligence needs methods and requirements. the matter was of such significance to the justice department that the u.s. attorney himself which had a case, after months on trial the jury deadlocked. his second child was overturned by an appeals court that objected to the prosecutions use of a failed polygraph test as evidence. by the time the case was return to our offices for their trial, the u.s. attorney had accepted position on the federal bench, he needed to design a case to someone else. this would be the lash off of the u.s. government and formula. either the national security interest of the country would be vindicated, or he would walk. i was assigned to the case. with testimony from two prior trials in the zhang jury, thousands of exhibits, there was a mountain of evidence with which i had no familiarity. to prepare i would need to spend months immersing myself in the record, and interviewing mueller's former colleagues in

the fbi. by then i had tried many cases with the bureau, but nothing like this, and it brought me to close contact with dozens of agents working long hours to pair for trial. they spent countless hours walking me through the details of their investigative process, explaining how the effort to ensure mueller fitted into a larger pattern of russian trade traffic. i can't understand how the kremlin exploits the most basic human vulnerabilities. praying on those who feel unappreciated and residential, who are fixated on money and success, who have a history of dishonesty and are prone to infidelity. one aspect of russian craig craft involves luring in a potential target base taking an incremental commoditizes that will eventually ensnare the victim. in miller's case that we can with clandestine meetings with svetlana against the explicit warning of a supervisor, enough to get mueller disciplined if he was kind. then sex with her, a firing offense, then small amounts of

cash, a criminal matter, and finally it was the dangle of $50,000 worth of gold, for classified information. a potential capital climb. she began by seeking the names of others sofia defectors who were residing in los angeles so that she could report them to kgb handlers. later she saw something even more significant, at the guide outlining fbi's counter intelligence strategy. in october 1990, after a seven-week trial, miller was finally found guilty on all six counts. he was sentenced to 20 years in prison. i was proud to have healthy department of justice and the fbi finally deliver justice in the case, but i was also deeply concerned by what it revealed. our government is filled with patriotic an honorable public service, but there will always be a small number of vulnerable to foreign into cheese and i now understand how determined the government was to finding them. perhaps it was naive of me at the time, but i little a managing that people of moral turpitude could occupy the highest positions of our

government and make themselves targets of russian trade craft. but when an unscrupulous businessman later ran for president and surrounding himself with fellow grifters, i recognize both the target rich environment to provide for russian television and the unmistakable hallmarks of their compromise. and the most terrible realization was not far behind, that a president of the united states could be so easily manipulated to serve the interest of our adversaries. the focus called midnight in washington. you may have guessed by now it is by congressman adam schiff i got it in galley form and i didn't get an actual book because i being devouring ever since i first got it adam schiff of course as the head of the congress committee and the impeachment trials he became the man who donald trump sees behind his clothes eyelids when he closes his eyes interest go sleep at night. former president is absolutely obsessed with adam schiff

perhaps with good reason. midnight in washington is very good. it's extremely readable which is not always the case with politician books as you know. but for all the dish, and surprising anecdotes in the book, what's important about it is the way adam schiff lays out the facts of what we went through as a country during the trump years. it does help us understand where we got today. don't take my word for it, i found this to be illustrative and illuminating. this is a pulitzer prize -winning ron chernow he says this book will stand as the touchstone of truth a tense any attempts to destroy or re-white this crucial piece of history. congressman adam schiff has restored our faith in the nobility of public service and has shown that one dedicated of patriot courageous intelligent and feeling so accomplishing even and a divided country. coming from ron chernow that is saying something. one of the things that adam

schiff clearly wants us not to forget, over what we learned over the last few years, is how it came together. how much more shocked we would have been how do we not learn the trip by trip, and had we learned it all at once. if you just bodily, and you take what we learned, it still cannot q back even then. it starts with russia and the trump campaign, those hallmarks of compromise that adam schiff recognize from his days of prosecuting richard miller in that landmark fbi espionage case. this is from page 85 of adam schiff buck. first things first what exactly did the trump campaign during the 2016 election and what was this relationship with russia annotations? because the facts of the president and treaties for russian help and the campaigns innumerable russian contacts leash into the public consciousness over a two year period and where the subject of a relentless effort of office station in cover and most americans have only a deep sense of what actually took

place. the study goes on to remind us, and it really is stunning just not have it laid out all at once. without all of the noise, just have the facts laid out. the russian hacking of the democratic committee, the stolen emails that could strategically leaked to hurt hillary's campaign, and help donald trump. -- testing the waters by campaign advisor. approaching trump son who is open to their pitch. the trump tower meeting, wikileaks disseminating the stolen emails, trump reading the cam pain stop after campaign stop. the russians attempting to hack hillary clinton's private server. hours after trump urged them to on live tv. the huge social media campaign being carried out from russia to benefit trump. trump's campaign chair of meeting regularly with the russian campaign officer, who he provided with key internal polling data from the trump campaign. trump's national security adviser having secret conversations with the russian government -- and lying to the fbi about

them. trump actively pursuing a big business deal, the biggest business deal of his life, a trump tower in moscow. even as he insisted he had no business dealings in russia at all. we didn't know that when trump became president, and that all of course a partial list. we would eventually learn all of that through trump journalism, an investigation like the one adam schiff carried out in the -- committee and congress. and getting the soil now it's important for the steak of the record, but adam schiff has another point of making laying out these facts. his argument in this book sort of ran at large is before the january 6th attack on the capital, of which he gives an absolutely harrowing account in the book. before donald trump's impeachment, his first impeachment, but trying to extort the canadian government for going after joe biden us is expected political opponent in 2020. -- blow by blow behind the scenes curtain telling this book. before all of that, it was

during the russian investigation that he saw the beginnings of what would become a full fledged crisis of democracy. in the aftermath of the 2020 election, we often talk about the republican party being captured by donald trump, becoming this anti-democracy party that we are dealing with right now. but schiff watch that transformation have been a close and very human in personal terms, not just in terms of what he observed from trump, but also from his republican colleagues turned into something he did not recognize. adam schiff says quote, that story, the story of hungry people were persuaded to abandon their beliefs and ideology, their dedication to something larger than something than themselves an ambition, and came to embrace an ugly nativism that their party had long held up, is the one i wish to tell. by the time the rush investigation was, over the republican party in this leadership in congress would be broken. the ukraine misconduct that followed was the logical

consequence of not only trumps relieved that he'd escaped accountability for seeking foreign interference in 2016 campaign and lying about it, but also his recognition that the republicans in congress would never confront, him never concern him, they have been fully have successfully counted. the dye had already been cast, and as we would see following his acquittal during the first impeachment trial, each for the proof of gop acquiescence and his immorality will lead to further abuses of his power. this new book from congressman adam schiff midnight and washington, it's a stunning look at what the trump years have done to us as human beings, and congressman adam schiff about where we go from here is only human agency, the willingness of individual people to be brave and speak to power. and where the consequences of it. that is the only thing that will get us out of what remains an existential danger to us as a democracy. the book comes out tomorrow,

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than a decade of speaking with robert mueller had never hear him go forwards. the jury now continues to ask him questions, mueller continue to be -- that any senior white house official refused a request to be official by union team. visibly searching his memory. i don't believe so he said. now i was alarmed, now this question was almost a rhetorical. i could see now he was equally puzzled. he raised his eyebrows in this relief instead slowly, president. mueller recognized his air. let me take that back he said. i winds that the side of this in turn to my democratic colleagues, it was heartbreaking to see robert mueller this person that i so admire having difficulty answering some of the most basic questions. even on a bad day mueller had me capable of performing more

than 99% of the witnesses i had her testify. this was not the bob mueller knew. two years have brought a striking change. i suddenly not understood not only his reluctance to testify, but the party checked the instinct of his dedicated staff. had i known how much he had changed, i would not have pursued his testimony with such vigor, and fact i would not have pursued it at all. joining us now is the chairman of the house intelligence committee, the author of midnight in washington how we almost lost democracy and still could, california congressman adam schiff chairman of the intelligence community. chairman thank you for being here, congratulations on this book. >> thank you, and thank you for the beautiful description of it. >> i was struck by sort of learning about how you learned, in this. it seems like you were built backwards in time, to be ready to be the chairman of the intelligence committee at a time there were questions about the president being compromised

by russia, given your background, and have given been a prosecutor in these things, lived in and visited the former soviet union. it does seem like you are either star crossed or destined for this isn't it? >> well, it did feel at times like certain parts of my life prepared me for what was to come. in very unexpected ways. i never thought i would see another illustration of russian trade craft that work like i did in the military. but the president and so many ways resembles the kind of target that miller was, he was a four lander, he had poor morals, a lack of ethics, he had the same greed except on the far greater scale than miller. and unlike miller, where the russians could dangle gold, donald trump was actively pursuing this very lucrative project in moscow. the russians didn't even need to dangle anything he was pursuing it proactively

himself. to realize that the president was as vulnerable of a target as richard miller in what was quite a shocking revelation. but certainly seeing that kind of trade craft in the past, recognizing how the russians work, how they do their psychological operations all the study the psychology of their target, know how to manipulate people it seems quite familiar. >> when you write in the book about what was going on in the 2016 campaign, you have a vivid anecdote about you and senator feinstein of california speaking on the phone. she saying are you seeing what i'm seeing, and terms of what russia was appearing to do to try and help the trump campaign. and how trump was telling lies on even controversial things that did not map to u.s. politics in a way that was understandable. it it's feel like you did try and sound the alarm. now the alarm has been widely

sounded, the mueller investigation which will talk about more in a minute, the impeachment saga, the entire charm of the trump's one term in office is now laid bare. before us. it does seem like the republican party would be happy to put him back in the oval office, despite everything that we learned about him. that to me is sort of soul sucking. you remain sort of optimistic that we can get past that, and that republicans can change. despite what you're seeing from them right now about their willingness to abide the stuff. >> you know, i do remain optimistic. just eyes, and i keep coming back to something robert carroll once said in an interview that power doesn't corrupt as much as it reveals. it doesn't always reveal for our best but it reveals. for every story that revealing in peoples that people are willing to sacrifice everything they're willing to believe in, their whole ideology. all this immoral president that

we saw by so many republicans in congress, so many people who join the trump administration. for every story like that, i also got to meet people like maria hahn of itch. this courageous ambassador of ours who is being threatened, being had heard out of her post in ukraine. who has the courage to stand up to the most powerful man in the country, to step into this hearing room when the president was telling her not to, to stare down this failings of trump acolytes vilifying her. who paved her way for others to show courage. the alexander vindman,'s fiona hills, and so many other has. when i see those stories, which i love to write about, it vindicates for me the founders believes that we saw has that sufficient virtue to be self governing. we don't need a tyrant ruling over us. i am optimistic that we will get through this, we are very

resilient country. but what we do now, will determine how quickly we can get through this. >> let me ask you about that short portion of the book that i just read moments ago, about your sort of revelation about robert mueller. mueller led the investigation into what russia did, and whether the trump campaign was directly colluding with russian government on trump's behalf. then you write with incredible clarity about how angered and disgusted and dismayed you were about william barr, handled the receipt of that report and his misleading rollout of it to the public, but you are shocked that robert mueller effectively wasn't going to make a good witness. that he was not the person who you had expected to be testifying, there that he hadn't changed since you had last seen him in public. do you believe looking back on it that mueller shouldn't have led that inquiry, that it

should have been someone else. or is your regret only that from the ocean to testified about the content of the report? >> regret is only in forcing him to testify when, i could understand a moment he did why his staff had been so reluctant, he wasn't able to bring the report fully to life, he just wasn't the same man that i knew from years earlier and that's my regret is forcing him to testify that way. i think he led a brilliant investigation, i think he's a man of just incredible integrity. the one thing that really does strike me to, you mentioned bill buyer. and very much the same way that donald trump imagined everyone is like him, that everybody lays like he does, everyone is corrupt like he is, i think that bob mueller being this man of unquestioned integrity, also presumes of others that they share the same devotion to the

truth, and have the same rectitude. i think he must have been astonished that bill barr would betray his work, would lie to the american people about what was in his report war repeatedly. so i think you have the illustration of a really good man in ball mueller, who presume is the best and everyone else, and then you have the exact opposite donald trump. >> the book is called the midnight in washington how we almost lost democracy and still could. with remarkable anecdotes about how kevin mccarthy, and why congress men schiff telling he should be absolutely nowhere near the speakership of the united states house. remarkable anecdotes about lindsey graham, remarkable anecdotes about devin nunes, a lot of his democratic colleagues. congressman schiff this is politicians don't write great books, but this is a fascinating read. and this is an exception to the politicians don't write good

books real. this is a good one. thank you for doing. >> thank you i'm glad i could break the mold. >> indeed. in many ways. >> all right we have lost more to get to tonight, stay with us. more to get to tonight, stay with us pad that protects differently. with two rapiddry layers. for strong protection, that's always discreet. question your protection. try always discreet. feel stuck with student loan debt? move to sofi-and feel what it's like to get your money right.

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party is putting it together all over the country now. again the butler president talking about it in this way they're saying this is a story that's over. this is actually a story that's accelerating within the republican party. they're doing in arizona, and pennsylvania, in georgia, some version of it in texas, they're also doing and wisconsin. this is how the investigator, who was appointed by the republican state legislator in wisconsin. the guy who was an pointed to investigate that states election shin results. this is why he said this weekend. >> based on what the office of special counsel has investigator so far, there is compelling evidence that wisconsin's election laws were not properly followed by

election officials at both the state, and local levels. millions of dollars in private funds may have been used in a public management of elections to achieve a preferred although expensive in election integrity. and michelin -- protocols are both. >> the election may have been totally rigged and stolen looks like maybe. i don't have any evidence to talk to you about, i'm just saying that we started looking at it looks bad to me, when i'm seeing might be. that is the man who republicans from -- have higher tune vest to get the results of the presidential election in 2020 in wisconsin. he made the statement on his youtube channel this weekend against a very official looking green screen that shows a library back shop. he says that he has definitely started to see some signs that things that look like maybe evidence that the election was definitely rigged.

it doesn't actually say why any of that evidence is, or why he has found. he just said it was all looks bad. you'll recall that this is the theme so-called audit that kicked off in wisconsin with a special counsel requesting's sensitive election documents from clerks all over the state. his initial demand from -- gmail adjust up populated and everybody's emails as john delta. who is john delta? he went on the issue subpoenas requesting everything will document relating in any way to the election. he subpoenaed that from county clerks, and the mayors of large studies in wisconsin. riddled with glaring errors including spelling earth and the ming adjust to the wrong people. he demanded that these officials in wisconsin must meet with him in private for an interview which is not a thing, in terms of the way subpoenas work. nonetheless he demanded private interviews by the sort of pitch subpoenas, and people are supposed to turn up for these interviews had an office that's like a shared working space. where it's him and a

liposuction clinic. in a surprising term of hands he within a few days walked back to those interviews, and subpoenas only to say the following day that some of them were definitely back on. the people that wear the targets of these interview request and subpoenas don't know whether there is our honor off. he has admitted publicly that he has no idea how elections work in wisconsin, but he's looked enough to know that things don't go to him. today wisconsin's actual state journey at attorney general is pushing back hard on the attorney investigation pushing on the sky. >> this investigation is not being professionally or confidently conducted. by foreigner justice gableman's own admission, -- as they go. what we are seeing is corrosive to our democracy. my request is speaker bosses to simple, shut this fake

investigation down. >> wisconsin's attorney general asking the state assembly to shut this fake investigation down. but meanwhile all over the state of wisconsin, there's all these people who have to respond to these requests and demands, and subpoenas for sensitive election documents. or at least air trying to figure out if they should. from a random gmail account with clip are fake letterhead, they are told to arrive at a shared work space that's connected to a liposuction clinic. what do you do? especially if you are being subpoenaed and requested hand over sensitive stuff. like election documents, election materials, election machines, there is a man security concerns there. it's a serious, very silly situation in terms of the seriousness of this investigation that republicans are conducting this. but it's a serious question to the individuals who have to decide what they are going to do now that they are being told, legally, they must comply with it. joining us now is scott

mcdonell he is the county clerk for dane county which is the second biggest county in wisconsin, the great city of madison. thank you so much senator it's nice to have you here. >> thank you. >> so we spoke last month and this investigation had just started. we talked about the fact that you'd receive something that seemed like a sort of sketchy email telling you to preserve records from the 2020 election. i just want to get an update from you on the progress of that request, and whether you've had any further guidance binding or otherwise as to how you're supposed to deal with these requests and demands. >> no we haven't had any official communication from mr. gableman, there is no security protocol setup. i watch the youtube videos just like you, that's how i got my information. >> is it clear to you that you are legally bound to him, to hand over anything to him? >> well, i mean if you consider it like an open records request

anybody could request, you know the initial request related to server logs, and things that you really can't give away. that's the kind of thing that would allow somebody to hack into an election. but there is other materials that you can request, we publish every single ballot every year to the ball anyone can click through them. you can't see who they voted for, who is connected, to but you can see the ballots. a lot of this material is already online, and a lot of people have already after this information that he is now asking, including the committee that he says has all the information he says he wants. he just doesn't bother to look at it. >> it is, we have sort of a conundrum in the national media this is true in arizona as well when you look at the actual way that these investigations are audits are being carried out, it is laughable, in some ways.

they are silly in some ways. they don't make basic sense in some ways. that which an early lychee when you are deciding what to talk about in the country, that's something that isn't serious and should it be reported upon. that said these are actual election results that he is after. the election materials that he is subpoenaing, or demanding, or asking to have handed over to him, these are the real records. it would seem to me that this is sort of an equal parts silly, but also dangerous in terms of why he is asking you to do, in terms of the security of these materials, and how it's being represented to the people of wisconsin whether there really was something wrong with the election. that's how i see it looking at it from a media perspective. i don't know if that resonates with you as a pro who's right in the middle of this? >> yeah, i think originally there was some concern that this was going to go the route of the arizona audit where we were going to start going

through every ballot, and that. but it seems to have gone the route now of jamming up some of the old complaints and conspiracies around the election. some of the things he is talking about were already litigated in court, and last. so when he talks about the facebook yeah went to court and there is no state law that prevents -- from taking their money. maybe there should be, but there isn't. that's what he's talking about apparently. again on another decision that was made by republicans on the election commission years ago, it was through the election in 2016, filling in the -- madison wisconsin online outside of an envelope. that was a unanimous decision everyone supported it, it was true in 2016 when trump won wisconsin. but now apparently that is -- suspicious. >> got macdonnell, the second

largest county in wisconsin i know this is an ongoing thing, i'm going to ask you right now if you will come back and i cute -- community covering these things even if other people aren't. just because i think this is an important part of our way our elections are being undermined, and were willing to tell the story, tell the bitter end. >> yeah i'm with you all the way and i think it's key that we speak out. how first we try to ignore and hope that it goes away. but that's not going to happen. >> exactly. exactly. scott macdonnell thank you very much for your time, for your work. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> we'll be back stay with us. we'll be back stay with us. we'll be back stay with us. limu, you're an animal! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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-- while doj was pursuing that challenge. but then friday night the very conservative -- court of appeals basically unblocked it, which put the ban back in place. essentially once again. and they ask us a legal state abortion in texas are once again. we are waiting if that decision will be reversed again, if the ban will go back on ice. since we have been back on the air this hour this -- has been texas man to the fifth circuit. they don't hold back, they call the texas abortion ban an assault on the rights of texas as citizens, they call it an open threat to the supremacy of the federal constitution, they say the state of texas does not even attempt to defend the bans constitutionality in this court, and now the court has those arguments from doj that we've gone in this hour whether law stays in effect or weather gets stopped. but either way, women's rights in texas are getting turned off

an unlikely light switch. while this fight heads towards the united states supreme court. it's time the fight for abortion rights will happen unequivocally and on shielded anti abortion rights majority on the supreme court. it will have the full power of the united states justice department arguing for those rights. for now the productions of roe v. wade remain essential that in the state of texas. we are following this every step of this way, stay with us. with us with us

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