♪ ♪ wait, we can stay and go. hpe greenlake is the platform that brings the cloud to us. ♪ should i stay or should i go now? ♪ ♪ ♪ breaking news as we come on the air on msnbc reports. a deposition delay and the bannon battle. the house january 6 committee now postponing depositions from three former top aides to former president trump. our team is live to tell you the who and why as the committee now plans a vote on whether to hold steve bannon in criminal contempt. meantime those accused of participating in the riot face a judge in the d.c. courtroom. we have the latest from there and new reporting on what d.c. police told other agencies one day before the attack.

over at the white house, the president running out of patience. jen psaki take to set the microphone very soon, we believe, with new reporting out now that the administration says that it is time for budget talks to wrap up. why one senator this afternoon is making that more complicated. also this hour, what texas is telling an appeals court today about the state's near total ban on abortion and the deposition donald trump is now being ordered to give next week. one of those afternoons where we're ripping up the rundown. i'm hallie jackson reporting from nbc headquarters in new york. and i'm joined by our reporters on capitol hill. and so let's start on the latest on this january 6 committee situation. because there is an escalation now between the committee and steve bannon. >> absolutely right. and this is an in-flexion point, the january 6 committee announcing plans for its first criminal referral as part of the investigation to steve bannon for refusing to comply with a

lawful subpoena. bannon argues that he doesn't need to comply because of an executive privilege claim made by former president trump which is something that the committee rejected and the biden white house rejects and the committee is set to meet on tuesday to vote. and there is no apparent day late between the members of this committee and i expect to pass quite easily. and then it goes to the floor of the house and the committee by the way saying that once that happens, the u.s. attorney has a duty to prosecute, not optional, they believe that the law requires the attorney's office to prosecute. let's show some of what chairman bennie thompson had to say about the decision to move to hold steve bannon in contempt. he said the smitty will not tolerate defiance of our subpoenas so we must move forward with proceedings to refer him for criminal contempt. and this is as scheduled depositions for three other men have been delayed.

mark meadows and kash patel are getting a little extra time because the committee says that they are engaging and a committee aide telling nbc news that they are hopeful that they will get the cooperation that they need from these men. dan scavino postponed because they had trouble serving him. so he gets extra time. but steve bannon, this will be heard around the world. this man is controversial. and this will set the tone going forward. >> is there really a question of how that discussion, how that decision will turn out at this point? realistically given what we know that members of the january 6 select committee have said publicly. >> highly likely that the criminal referral will pass both the committee and the house of representatives. >> all right. stand by. scott, as we talk about january 6, there is court action involving some of the defendants from the insurrection and significant developments there. you are all over this.

bring us up to speed. >> as the january 6 committee speeds up, the court cases are slowing down and dramatically today. the biggest case so far, the accused oathkeepers group, more than a dozen defendants charged with conspiracy, plotting and planning, being ready for battle that day. they were supposed to go on trial as early as january. today a judge at the urging of prosecutors backed it up until at least april. too much evidence, unprecedented evidence. worth noting some of the defendants -- [ inaudible ] -- want the trial to be sooner. another development today, alan hostetter wants to defend himself and a judge is allowing him. the former california police officer for nearly a quarter of a century says he knows a bit about the law. the judge said anybody who represents himself at trial has a fool for a client. we also have another low level

plea agreement, brian mcqueary, the latest to plead guilty for a misdemeanor, facing between zero and six months in jail. the judges are taking a harder line now, those misdemeanor defendants are increasingly likely to serve time behind bars. >> and there is also a memo we've obtained from the office of homeland security on a warning sent out a day before the attack. >> yeah, add that to the list of early warnings. d.c. police warning of potential violence. very already knew about a fbi norfolk field office warning about possible violence on january 6. and our own reporting was that the fbi and capitol police were warned days before january 6 about suspicious traffic on an obscure website about the underground tunnel system of the capitol. and this is what the january 6 committee were adding to its portfolio, why were early warnings not heeded. >> and so let's go back to the

other developing news as it relates to the postponement of some of the discussions with former trump aides and relates to the upcoming next week vote on whether or not to hold steve bannon in criminal contempt. bannon and his attorneys have said hey, former president trump is citing executive privilege so it is really on him, we're just following what he is telling us do. does this foretell a legal battle to come and a lengthy one? >> that is a very important question in terms of what happens next once it gets to the justice department because there is kind of unchartered waters scenario here. the justice department has a tendency not to issue the prosecutions when a claim of executive privilege by a president is at play. now, donald trump is a former president. steve bannon hasn't served in the white house since 2017, so there are serious questions about whether this even applies. but the fact that there is not a legal precedent involved here could tie this up in court a little bit and it certainly creates some measure of uncertainty about this going

forward. and of course those other three men, there aren't dates yet for exactly when they are scheduled to testify, but the committee certainly hoping that by showing its willingness to move forward with criminal contempt that it will put fear into these other men and in the hope that they ultimately do testify so they don't have to suffer the same fate as steve bannon. >> the idea it seems being try to maybe scare them into cooperating here. thank you both. we have other breaking news to get to at the white house. let me set the screen because scene because the white house is saying it is time to stop talking about the ongoing budget battle. and the administration thinks that it is time for lawmakers to wrap it up. you are looking on the left side of your screen at where we expect to see jen psaki, a lot of focus on what she has to say. and we also may hear from president biden. that is because he has a one-on-one with an international leader in the oval office. if he takes questions, if you watch this show, you know how this works. we'll take that tape, turn it

around and play it for you live right here. i want to bring in monica alba and also jake sherman. i know you are monitoring a lot of things at the white house here. but jake, let me start with you to set the scene. you have more in punch bowl news midday, with the white house telling you that now is the time to be decisive and get down to brass tacks as it relates to these discussions over that big spending bill that lawmakers are considering. adding the white house wants to make clear that soon it will be time for negotiations to conclude so we can move forward with both plans. the infrastructure bill as well as the broader social spending climate bill. the president is ready to get this done as is the country. so jake, pull back the curtain a little bit. is this like political posturing or how much teeth does this have? >> well, it is not political posturing, i think that -- it is

a little bit of political posturing but it is the white house basically saying they are sick and tired of this hand wringing and they want to get down to business. and i would say that there is a lot of people who feel that way. but the big problem is that the white house has next to no leverage here. so they are saying we need to get down to business or what, or the president won't sign the bill? or the president is going to abandon something? the president in the matrix of who has leverage and who has power here, the president has very little. right? because he needs all but basically three votes in congress, three democratic votes in congress to get his program passed, to get this infrastructure bill passed and the reconciliation bill passed. so this is him trying to put -- this is the white house and people close to the white house trying to put their foot on the gas a little bit and trying to shock to life i would say some of these house and senate democrats who are wringing their hands over all these provisions. but again, i would say that time

is tight but they do have in our estimation until the end of the year to get it done. we shouldn't really look at october 31st which is when highway funding expires as a deadline, that is a phony deadline. they could extend it again. they have a couple months to get this done and it looks like that they could, but the white house is right, they need to get down to business. >> and so i know this is all just developing in the last hour or two. you describe it well as a bit of an attempt to shock to life. any indication that it seems to be working so far? >> no, i'd actually say that the two sides are more dug in than they have ever been before. you had before this, and i've talked to some people today who seemed to indicate it didn't really move them at all, but you have the left digging in on priorities that the center of the party is not interested in. and you had nancy pelosi in san francisco yesterday talking about a plan to have medicare negotiate drug prices, talking about watering that down or pairing that back, which will not make the left happy. and so there is just a lot of

moving pieces right now and it is made even more difficult that congress is not in session. so they will come back next week. i think that you will see a lot of people getting their hands dirty and getting down to business in these talks. >> let me bring in mon here because we know that we'll hear from jen psaki the white house press secretary. i don't know about the time schedules and potential delay, but listen, president biden is not always very punks a punks a. we expect we may hear from him. talk to me from about what you are hearing from your sources. >> and the kenyan delegation did just arrive. so it seems that the president will soon have an oval office spray and talk potentially about some of these many pressing items before later in the afternoon. and we see white house press sent will come and take questions on all of this including jake's excellent reporting which we have matched here at nbc news which is that, yes, there is some this sense of frustration and a little bit of this growing concern over trying

to nail something down. but when we do talk about the time line, it was just a few days ago really the white house was saying we're not working with any artificial deadline, progress is being made, we feel this is on track. but the tone did shift a little bit yesterday in general psaki's briefing where she conceded of course time is not unlimited. but in the bigger context of that conversation, that was specifically about terry mcauliffe the virginia gubernatorial's comments that he wanted democrats to get together in a room and hammer this out because he feels that would be beneficial to the race that he has to run in just a couple weeks. so the white house saying we're on our own path. of course we don't view that exactly october 31st as jake is saying as the ultimate deadline, but they know the reality of not exactly having much time beyond that given all the other looming fights on capitol hill. but i think that really important thing to remind people here is that the president is trying to go and sell these

plans tomorrow for instance in connecticut, talking about the child care parts of the plan for instance when some of those things could still be taken out or stripped back or shrunk. and that really gets at the challenge for this administration because they are trying to explain to the american people what is in this legislation when we don't know yet what is going to make it in, what will be cut, what is the ultimate price tag will be. so they are walking a very fine line here and yes, they are saying that we'd like to get it nailed down, so that then they feel that they can effectively sell it better. >> jake, can you talk about the kyrsten sinema factor here? the senator wants apparently the bipartisan infrastructure bill to be voted on first and then she will consider the bigger social spending bill. >> yeah, she is not in the house. she doesn't have anyway to say that. that bill would probably fail. nancy pelosi has shown that she does not want to fail. the 95 progressives in the house are digging in even deeper against that bill until they get

answers from sinema and manchin about what they want. what monica says is the most important thing here, which is this is an administration trying to sell priorities and they don't have a list of priorities yet. so this is just an incredibly difficult sales job in which they are trying to get something done without public buy-in and with kind of an amorphous process on capitol hill. >> great job from both of you. and i know that you will stay close to that camera in case we get anything from president biden. and still ahead, texas pushing an appeals court to uphold a controversial abortion ban with an argument that may be even more bold than the original bill. plus the former president deposed at the hands of protestors. why donald trump is being ordered to testify under oath. plus the vote an fda panel just took on moderna booster shots. s. if you're 55 and up,

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abortion ban is now in the hands of a federal appeals court. texas just responding this afternoon to the justice department's request to put that law on hold while courts figure out whether it is legal or not. pete williams is joining us. and among other things the state says abortion is not a constitutional right but is, quote, court invented right. >> right, texas takes the position in this filing, they say that the states are bound by the text of the constitution but they don't have to follow supreme court rulings about constitutional rights. let me quote from the brief here that says that the supreme court's interpretation of the constitution are not the constitution itself, they are after all called opinions. the federal and state political branches they say have every prerogative to adopt their own interpretations of the constitution and to pass laws that deprive the courts of the

opportunities to consider enforcement challenges to these statutes. they say abortion isn't a constitutional right. it is a court invented right that may not even have a majority of support on the current supreme court. and they say states don't violate the constitution by undermining a, quote, right, end quote, that is nowhere to be found in that document and exists only as a concoction of judges who want to impose their ideology on the nation. so basically the state is saying that it passed sb-8 but has no text all support of the constitution, that is the most controversial decision from the supreme court in the past 50 years, and which texas says the current court is considering overruling. that is of course a reference to the mississippi case. >> is that not a pretty brazen argument on their part? >> it is a bold one. certainly is. i'm not sure how this appeals to -- if you assume this case

will wind up before the supreme court, my guess is that texas wrote this brief with the u.s. supreme court in mind knowing that this is going to go past the fifth circuit one way or the other. i guess they feel that this is an appeal to justices on the supreme court that view roe v. wade with the same suspicion that texas does. >> pete williams for us in washington. more to come on that story. thank you. and breaking this afternoon in other news, a judge is now ordering former president trump to testify under oath monday at trump tower. this is a significant development in a lawsuit brought back in 2015 by six people who accused trump security guards of assault. no response yet from a lawyer for mr. trump to nbc news' request for comments. let me bring in tom winter with more. so tom, this is interesting.

because there has been these various legal issues that donald trump has gotten tied up in, there has always been the question of what if he ends up deposed. walk us through expectations if he shows up for this, what happens if he does not. >> he has been ordered to by a judge so he really doesn't have a tremendous choice in the matter. the judge did give him an alternative date for later in the month if there is some sort of an unexpected illness or other hiccup that would break vent the president from sitting down for this deposition scheduled to occur monday at his trump tower on fifth avenue. so that is what is expected as far as the president goes. this lawsuit goes back over six years to something that happened in september of 2015 where according to these six individuals involved in filing the lawsuit against not only the former president but as well as his bodyguard keith shiller, that they were protesting the president's comments about mexican immigrants and that

these individuals were of mexican descent and they were roughed up and assaulted in the process of their protests. so that is where this case comes from. that is presumably what the president will be asked about here is did he have any knowledge of his security staff's involvement in this alleged assault. did he direct it. what was his role in it. those would likely be the questions that would be asked as far as getting into other subject matters and top he can matters, that is generally prohibited because of course the lawsuit is specifically focused on these assaults. so that is something that we'll have to continue to watch. but at the very least it looks like president trump will be sitting down for this deposition which would be played for the jury if this case does go to trial. >> tom winter, i know what your assignment is on monday. thanks for being on. some breaking news we're just getting in that we told you a little bit about right before the break, but just minutes ago the panel that advises the fda on everything covid has unanimously voted to recommend

moderna for those ages 65 and older and immunocompromised as it relates to boosters. also the "washington post" is reporting this afternoon that the biden administration has zeroed in on a nominee to lead the fda, dr. robert callif. let me start with this big news out of the panel. i want to bring in dr. patel and also tyler pager, who is a white house reporter for the "washington post." tyler, with apologies to you, i'm going to ignore you for like three minutes because i want to talk to dr. patel about the medical news. and again, this is just coming in here, this advisory panel making that recommendation. your reaction. let's start there. >> not shocked and pleasantly surprised that it was unanimous. hoped it would be. moderna, half the dose of what is available right now, so keep that in mind, fda advisory committee unanimously approving

for a booster under an emergency authorization that closely mimics basically the pfizer booster. anybody over the age of 65, anyone between the ages of 18 and 64 with certain high risk conditions, and third people who live or are in occupations where they are at risk foror complica. so nothing shocking here. but entirely appropriate. tomorrow will be the big tee-up for exciting conversation with johnson & johnson's booster. >> i was going to say, talk about next steps then. because there is more coming. >> yeah, so tomorrow johnson & johnson also has an application for an emergency authorization with the booster put ahead of it, but we've also got this mix and match data that you've covered recently that shows that if you've had one dose of johnson & johnson, you are probably better off getting that second booster in the form of an mrna vaccine, the mix and match phenomenon. that will be a topic of discussion which will also likely lead to some language that the fda is going to offer

when it hands off some of this to the advisory committee for the cdc, which will meet next week. after that, for moderna people all waiting like me, moderna's recipients will be waiting on instructions on how to administer the half dose. and for j&j people, i hope that we'll see a little flexibility to offer an mrna vaccine in the form of a booster, but not -- we won't know more until tomorrow and next week when the cdc acts on that. >> so is there any actionable steps that people should take if they are 65 who got moderna right based on this recommendation or is it still sit tight for like another week or so? >> sit tight. i hope that it is just days because i think that moderna has stated that they are ready with instructions and guidance to pharmacies and doctors' offices about how to administer and what to do, whether we'll need separate vials or we can use th.

but it won't be long. moderna and johnson & johnson folks have been waiting. but should have clarity in the next days. but don't do anything today. wait until next week. >> tyler, let me go to you and this scoop on the news as we talk about the fda, now apparently the biden administration set to announce their pick for the permanent head of that agency. as viewers of this show will know, acting head of the fda was interviewed this week. and i want to replay when i asked her about this idea that there is still not somebody permanent leading this agency at a critical time when there is a lot going on as it relates to the pandemic. here is what she said. >> are you confident that the fda is running as it should even in the absence of a permanently named commissioner? >> well, i believe that certainly some of the staff feel some uncertainty.

however, i believe that the leadership of the agency is functioning at a very high level. >> tyler, there had already been reporting that the acting commissioner was unlikely to get the nomination. tell us about the person who may, dr. cal iff, what does he bring to the table. >> yeah, this a big step forward for the biden administration to staff up the health agency and a critical role in the fight against the pandemic. so dr. califf who they are zeroing in on served as the fda commissioner in the last year of the obama administration. he is someone who has been in this agency before. he brings that experience to bear and i think that that is something that the white house was really looking for in filling this job given how much is on the plate of the fda with regard to covid, vaccine, antiviral treatments, also ecigarettes and other things outside of covid-19, i think that they were looking for someone who had that experience.

and he did face trouble getting confirmed the first time around in the obama administration from senators bernie sanders and joe manchin, two critical votes for democrats. so it will be interesting to see their reaction to this nomination if the president moves forward with it. >> dr. patel, how important is it, first of all, your reaction to tyler's reporting and how important is it that the fda has a permanent head? >> i think it is incredibly important and i do think that having a nominee who has been vetted, had to be battle tested, and who the agency staff know is pretty critical. we just need some confidence in the transition plan. here is the news. i don't think that any nominee will get confirmed quickly. so it looked like the interim will be in place for a while and that is probably a degree of security given how much work the agency needs to do in the next three weeks. >> dr. patel, tyler pager, thank you both very much for joining us on what has been a very busy afternoon. if you are keeping track, five breaking news stories just in the last couple of hours.

we got more ahead including interviews with both candidates in the virginia governor's race. what they are telling us about the upcoming election and steve kornacki is live at the big board, next. ♪ ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ my dvt blood clot left me with questions...

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. you know october is hispanic heritage month here in the u.s. contributions by that community countless of course, but increasingly important in the political landscape. a ucla study earlier this year showed latino voting jumped nearly 31% between the last two presidential elections. that means the vote is becoming more and more critical to candidates across the country. national political correspondent steve kornacki is posted at the big board for us with new data looking at how that voting bloc will be critical. so steve, talk to us about what the numbers are telling us. >> yeah, it is a big question that looms over both midterms in 2022 and obviously the presidential election in 2024. are we seeing a shift taking place when it comes to hispanic voters. obviously we've been talking about hispanic voters as a fast growing portion of the electorate, basically doubling their share.

but in 2020, here is how different groups voted. you see trump winning white voter, biden winning black voters. biden winning hispanic voters by 20 points. but to put it in perspective, compare how they voted in 2020 with how they had voted in 2016, and you can see, look at the shift here -- excuse me, that should say clinton, not biden, my apologies. but in 2016, hillary clinton the democrat won the hispanic vote by 38 points. joe biden the democrat wins the hispanic vote by a reduced margin of 21 points. the democratic margin falls from 38 down to 21 points. 2016 to 2020. so we say is there some kind of a shift going on here. the 2020 election certainly raised had possibility. in terms of the big question marks over the immediate political future, here these are the states that have, you can see the largest hispanic populations in the country and a lot of these states will have a lot to say about the 2022 midterm elections.

key senate races in nevada, arizona, in florida. also mark kelly's picture is blocking out texas, but texas will have a bunch of house races that will determine control of that chamber. so check this out, take a look here -- actually, let's go to florida first. take a look at florida. in 2020, we know donald trump carried florida. one of the first states that we had a return from on election night. the big surprise in florida was right down here, it was miami-dade county, almost 3 million people in miami-dade county. it is two-thirds hispanic, a large cuban-american population. but a lot of other hispanic groups as well. check this out. joe biden won miami-dade by seven points in 2020. again, two-thirds hispanic. millions of people. check out how different that was from 2016. in 2016, the democrats won miami-dade by nearly 30 points. that margin fell all the way to single digits in 2020.

and we saw results like that, saw shifts like that, we see it here in south florida, we saw it in south texas in the rio grande valley as well. you see counties there that in 2016 had been democratic by 30, 40, 50 points. coming down into single digits, becoming very competitive. so you see it in the big picture demographics that i showed you at the front, you see it at the county level as well. there was a significant shift during the trump presidency book ended by the '16 and '20 elections. still democratic, but not nearly as democratic at the end as at the beginning. and the question, is that the start of something, is that something that will be continued in '22 and '24 or is that something that we'll look back and say that was sort of specific to the trump era. it is a key question just given the share of the electorate continues to grow. >> great breakdown of the data. appreciate it. something else that the world of politics is very closely watching, the first big election since the insurrection

on the capitol and first big election during president biden's time in office. it is that virginia governor's race that is looking tighter and tighter every day. the newest poll by cbs news giving former governor mcauliffe a three point lead over glenn youngkin, inside the margin of error. >> and one of the candidates talked to us, the republican candidate did not play ball with us. but at the same time, yes, it is the governor's race in an off year. but there is such national significace because of latino voters, black voters, will some of those voertds go back to the republican party that so many of them left under donald trump. that is the question that we'll be looking at these next three weeks. >> folks, how we doing today?

>> reporter: an inside look at the first major election in the joe biden era. the hotly contested race for virginia governor with republicans looking to take it from the democrats in favored candidate terry mcauliffe. >> trump wants to declare a big victory here and then use it as a launch pad. >> so if you do not win this race, is that an indictment on the democratic party? >> i think if we -- first of all, we'll win the race. but -- >> reporter: mcauliffe a well-known establishment democrat, a long time friend of the clintons. and he's already been a governor here before. >> i'm just going to fight as hard as i can to keep us a blue state. >> reporter: but this is 2021. and what happens here if the republican upsets mcauliffe, it could be a barometer of the races to come. and that is why we're heading one hour south of here to where that republican glenn youngkin is. so paper it is a long road for the gop. four years ago the democrat who ran won by nine points. last year joe biden beat donald trump in virginia by ten. which sets up the question, does that kind of high democratic

energy hold? >> there is something absolutely amazing going on being as i don't the sxhon well commonweal virginia. >> reporter: the gop relying on its own enthusiasm. >> the leadership believes the government knows what is best for your children. and let me tell you, i believe the exact opposite. >> reporter: the former private equity firm ceo is in a tough spot. he needs strong turnout from the trump loyalists like those here in rural cculpepper. the former president trump's endorsement should help. the campaign denying our request for an interview. do you mind if we ask you a few questions? >> we're running late. >> reporter: but republicans must also find a way to win back nows of suburban voters where in some places there has been a 40 point swing. >> suburban voters won't care about ideology, they will care about who you are, what are you delivering for me and my family. >> reporter: yet virginia's democrats may face the consequences of their party's challenges in washington. biden's 44% approval rating.

rising inflation. a migrant crisis. installed efforts to pass major infrastructure package. have stalled efforts in washington hindered the democratic party efforts here in virginia? >> i would like that trillion dollar infrastructure bill. let's be clear. get in a room, negotiate, get both these bills passed. we need it for america. >> reporter: and the state has shown resistance to d.c. in the past. in 10 of the last 11 elections for governor, virginia voters have selected the candidate from the party opposite of the party in the white house. you've set up this race as a referendum on youngkin and trump. will it also be a referendum on you and joe biden? >> i think who wins will be the vision of what people think going forward. >> reporter: and for democrats, a test to hold on to power and that vision. >> we did it! >> and again, this is the first major election in the joe biden era and first major election since the insurrection in january. >> what is interesting is that last little bit of that where he

asked about the idea of is this a referendum on joe biden. and this is a pretty -- this is a national election. it is not, just virginia, but it is nationalized. >> terry mcauliffe is mr. democrat. best friend of the clintons. joe biden will be there tomorrow. stacey abrams on sunday. they are doing whatever it takes to get out the vote and can they do that. donald trump is no longer in office. so can they do it post-trump. >> i'd be remiss if we did not note that we've had terry mccain call live on our show. glenn youngkin, we'd still love to talk to him. and you are an arizona guy so i have to ask you about kyrsten sinema. the "new york times" is reporting while this big reconciliation bill is in europe, she is in europe for a fundraising trip? >> right. "new york times" reporting that she is in paris fundraising for the democratic senatorial committee. we have not heard back from her

campaign. but like virginia, arizona is one of those states where these individuals so much is being looked at. and kyrsten sinema is not up for re-election until 2024, but this is the conversation that we'll be having. yes, mark kelly will be up first in 2022. we don't expect a primary challenge against mark kelly. but everybody's eyes right now on are on 2024 and kyrsten sinema, and the congressman from phoenix continuing to look at him. there were calls for him to run against mark kelly two years ago. and serious conversations looking a male latino veteran running in a primary against kyrsten sinema as you see her approval numbers going down. and at the same i'm is that going to pass an infrastructure bill? we don't know. >> vaughn hillyard covering it all for us. good to see you. coming up here, new pledges from facebook on who it will protect on its platform as the social media network faces global scrutiny over what it does.

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tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems, such as eye pain or vision changes, or a parasitic infection. if you take asthma medicines don't change or stop them without talking to your doctor. talk to your doctor about dupixent. a new bill just announced today would target big tech companies like facebook, reforming what is known as section 230. so what would that do? it would basically lift the so-called liability shield that platform look facebook, quote, knowingly or recklessly uses an algorithm that boosts dangerous content. that bill coming on the heels of that blockbuster whistleblower hearing last week from a former facebook employee. but we're also now learning from the "new york times" that facebook is clamping down on its internal message boards seeking to minimize the kinds of leaks that led to that hearing. with me now is the reporter who broke that story for the

"times," ryan mack. thank you for being back on the show. >> thanks for having me. >> so let's start with the internal message board thing. how is facebook explaining this as anything other than a reaction to what haugen the whig whistleblower revealed about the company? >> they are basically saying it is a way to minimize the weeks. clearly the company has been damaged by frances haugen's revelations with the amounts of documents that she's taken out of the company and the company is clamping down here on that never happening again. so frances haugen was a civic integrity employee, and she worked on things like misinformation and basically harm and safety on the platform. and facebook is essentially closing these groups internally to anyone outside of integrity, no one outside can access the groups moving forward. >> let me ask you about this new bill related to section 230. let me see if i can put it in

plain english because the discussion around this was to hold tech companies liable for the content that their algorithms promote. so does this open the door for companies like facebook or whatever to get sued what's happening and what the democrats are proposing here is that if an alg rt imboost something into someone's feed that leads to be harmed or emotionally damaged, that opens the way for a potential litigation. there is nothing like that currently that allows for that with 230. what's interesting here is that facebook has been advocating for 230 reform for quite some time. activists are saying facebook actually would have the resources to adjust to something like this if it were to pass. whereas other smaller sites that are protect by 230 may not have

that same type of resources or capabilities to protect against something like that. so it remains to be seen how this would be applied. again, it is only a democrat initiative right now. but it certainly is something that someone like frances haugen has advocated before moving forward. >> quick question on this other change apparently coming to facebook, that the.can, according the reuter's will considered activists and journalists, quote, ib voluntary rather than voluntary public figures to try to protect them more against harassment and bullying. explain what kind of impact that might have. >> it is facebook trying to target harassment and prevent harass men from happening towards public figures. what they are going to do is start taking down sexualized content, sexualized harassment,

people who don't have an eye toward becoming a public figure but become one in the process of their work. these policies give them tools to take down some of the harassing content and coordinated harm. >> ryan mack thank you for being with us. great reporting as always. we are expecting today at some point to get our first peek at some possible recommendations on changes to the supreme court. why? well, you know that presidential commission on the supreme court? it was ordered by president biden, remember, back in april. they are set to release their preliminary findings today. essentially fulfilling a campaign promise to liberals who think the court needs to be reformed. the 36-member commission made up of legal experts, former judge, layers on both sides of the aisle who have appeared before the court tasks with considering some major changes including expanding maybe the number of justices on the court. i want to bring in kimberly at kin, a reporter who has been covering the court closely.

talk to us about what the commission has been asked to look at, what you might be expecting to hear in what we should be careful to say is preliminary draft. >> yes. this commission, as you said grew out of calls basically for expanding the court in response to the conservatives and mitch mcconnell's efforts to really put more conservative judges on the court in the federal judiciary in a generation, including the u.s. supreme court. there are a lot of calls to pack the court. instead of committing to do that, now president biden said he would put this commission in place to make recommendations about how to reform the court, things like whether there should be more justices installed, whether there should be term limits, whether we should change the way justices are appointed. i don't expect any big block busters because so far the members of this commission pushed back on the idea that congress, which would have to act in order to implement any of

these reforms should be the one to do it. they keep saying, if any of these reforms are going to take place it really should come were the court itself, something that the justices themselves embrace. now, of course, the justices haven't wanted to change anything. if they wanted to, they could have done it by now. so i am not expecting sweeping recommendations coming out of this today. certainly, we don't know, but i think at most perhaps there might be recommendations to change the way the confirmation process is, maybe saying that regardless of when a nomination is made, that it is no longer an option not give them a vote, an up or down vote or a hearing. i don't think there will be more coming out of it based on what we have seen so far. >> let's say those are the recommendations, right, that come out of this. what would be the next steps at that point? >> well, then the committee will issue its final report by november. and then that would go to congress. really, any of these changes will either have to be done by the court itself. of course the court itself could

abide themselves by stricter ethical rules for example. or most of them would have to be done by congress. so these recommendations would be sent to congress. and we will see what happens then. of course we have an equally divided congress politically. we talk about that all the time. so -- >> yeah. >> if it is up to congress to make these changes, i think the chances are very slim. >> i have to ask you about this interview from just stephen breyer with cnn. it was published this morning. as you know, liberals dug in on this idea that he should step down while democrats still have the majority in among and president biden is in the white house. in an interview this morning he admitted quote, people say mean things related to this topic. do you read this as essential will he democrats maybe should accept he's not going to leave and this pressure campaign is not going to go anywhere? how did you see the comments from him? >> he said it every way that he can, that he is not going the

retire until he is ready to. he said all of this publicity is good. he said that tongue in cheek. he is trying to promote a book. >> thank you for your perspective. thanks to all of you for watching yet another busy hour of hallie jackson reports. find us on twitter. see you tomorrow, same time. we will be back in washington, though, on friday. "deadline: white house" starts right after this quick break. right after this quick break ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ hi sabrina!

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hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. a day that will determine the future the january 6th committee is here. at least one of the first four subpoenas the committee has issued is officially being ignored and the first criminal contempt referral is officially being put into motion. they will refer steve bannon for criminal contempt after receiving a letter from his attorney that he will not comply before the 1/6 committee. bennie thompson says the committee will meet on tuesday to discuss adopting a contempt report.