d to go higher. (man 1) higher. (man 2) definitely higher. (man 1) we're like yodeling high. [yodeling] yo-de-le-he... (man 2) hey, no. uh-uh, don't do that. (man 1) we should go even higher! (man 2) yeah, let's do it. (both) woah! (man 2) i'm good. (man 1) me, too. (man 2) mm-hm. (vo) adventure has a new look. (man 1) let's go lower. (man 2) lower, that sounds good. (vo) discover more in the all-new subaru outback wilderness. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru. we are tracking breaking news as we come on the air. a veteran u.s. capitol police officer indicted. accused of helping hide evidence of a rioter's involvement in the

january 6th insurrection. just heard from the fda's advisory committee. unanimously recommending johnson & johnson boosters shots who people who got j&j first time around and the panel talking about the safety and effectiveness of mixing and matching vaccines. break it down with our own medical expert reaction from the white house and this gentleman, head of the national institutes of health dr. francis collins and plus msnbc news learned from a source fach with the situation should be getting update on former president clinton soon as he remains now at a hospital in california. live on the ground. we'll bring you that update. you'll know the second we get it. i'm hallie jackson back in washington this afternoon. breaking news. arrest of a capitol police officer. justice correspondent pete williams is following this. our capitol hill correspondent leigh ann caldwell also joining us. talk to us about michael riley, pete. we learned he'll remain free during this process under certain conditions? >> reporter: right. an initial court appearance no plea. that comes later on this

indictment. allowed to be released provided he la no weapons and can't be in contact with a specific group of people. although the court, that was under seal about specifically who he can't be in touch with. >> what else, pete, can you tell us about the situation? >> reporter: according to the indictment here, he reached out to a man before the riot. i should make clear. the charges don't say he had anything to do with facilitating the riot or anything to do with anything that happened on or before january 6th. what the indictment says on the 1st of january he actually reached out to a virginia fishing boat captain. not named in the court documents, but law enforcement officials tell us who this man is, because they both had an interest in fishing. then after the riot, when riley became aware this man posted images and videos on facebook saying that he was actually if the capitol, according to the court documents, he september

him a message that said the following -- take down the part about being in the building. they are currently investigating and everyone who was in the building is going to be charged. look out. and said to him, obstruction of justice is a very serious allegation. and also said, i'm a police officer who agrees with your political stance. so based on that, and several other messages in which he keeps telling the man to take down social media suggesting he was in the capitol, he's chargesed with obstruction of jut is. >> leigh ann, capitol police. what do you hear? >> reporter: capitol police responded. michael riley put on administrative leave. he's been with the police force, capitol police force, for 25 years. he actually was a capitol police officer of the month back in february of 2011, but head of the capitol police tom major did put out a statement saying that obstruction of justice is a very serious allegation. he goes on to say the department was notified about this

investigation several weeks ago. upon his arrest the officer was placed on administrative leave pending completion of the case. the u.s. capitol police's office of professional responsibility, opening up its own administrative investigation. hallie, several months ago, there were three dozen capitol police officer whose were being investigated for their role on january 6th. there were six who were dismissed based on that investigation. we don't think michael riley is one of those 36 who were being investigated, but this has been something the capitol police have been attuned to and paying attention to. and so this is a stunning development for the capitol police force. >> so, pete, the arraignment, i believe, october 26th. what do we know about next steps here? >> reporter: well, the next steps he'll enter a plea and that's when the thing will move forward. interestingly enough, i said earlier. court documents don't identify

who this person one was, but we hearned a man named jacob heils, chartered fishing boats. he pleaded guilty in early december a charge of parading in the capitol. sentenced in december. while in the capitol smoked an an known substance. according to the indictment officer riley later wrote to him, found out that riley had -- this man heils talked to the fbi and then riley wrote another message saying, hey, wait a minute. i just found out you went into the capitol, smokered marijuana. what a moron i was for communicating with you in the first place and delaeted all his facebook messages with heils. >> pete williams, leigh ann caldwell on top of the story for us. appreciate it. tracking multiple breaking news stories. another on johnson & johnson booster shots. that advisory panel this afternoon unanimously recommending j&j boosters for the more than 15 million adults,

people who got that first dose. the advisory panel still meeting and talking. we'll show a live shot. talking mixing and matching vaccines including people who got j&j might get more protection with a booster instead from pfizer and moderna. this max and match question. joined by our senior medical correspondent dr. john torres. dr. john, great to have you on. three big questions going into this fda advisory panel meeting. one, effectiveness of the johnson & johnson shot over two. two, getting a booster vesz a two-dose vaccine and three, mixing and matching vaccines. talk through what you've learned on those three big questions? >> hallie, they've answered to have those questions talking about that last one now as you mentioned. not necessarily an answer but come out with some information that the experts think might be a little solid. with the first two, effectiveness of the j&j vaccine over time is probably one of the biggers things we heard about.

essentially they said the johnson & johnson vaccine, we know it's not as effective as pfizer and moderna at least initially. data is showing its effectiveness stays fairly even over time. doesn't drop off. a better way to explain. pfizer and moderna, a high peak. peak up readily. johnson & johnson not quite as high. but that johnson & johnson stays pretty constant, whereas pfizer and moderna dip down over a six to eight-month period. saying we need boosters for pfizer and moderna. talk about the boosters for johnson & johnson. do we need them as well? the answer is? e. voted unanimously mainly because we thant would bring that constant rate we're talking about to a higher level to brecht more people. the big question about boosters, semantics, called a booster or additional vaccine. a lot said two-dose vaccine like pfizer and moderna.

not just one. correcting in that general correction but calling it a booster, two months or later after your first johnson & johnson vaccine. >> interesting. dr. john, a patient coming i had the j&j shot six, eight months ago, april-may, say. should i get moderna? get pfizer as a booster? what do you tell them? >> that's the information they're going over now. mixing and matching. data shows with one of the mrna vaccines on top of the j&j it it could give you more protection. this is advice they'll give to the fda talk about it and push it on to the cdc. i think they'll initially say go with the johnson & johnson, make sure you get protected at that stage and later talk about mixing and matching the variety of vaccines out there, hallie. >> so what does this mean? what are you hearing from folks in the white house and how this plays into the administration's overall covid response?

>> reporter: the white house is pleased to see this development, hallie. it fits into their broader message and strategy. one of the main tools out of this pandemic is through increased vaccinations. they're very encouraged by what they've seen so far in terms of people showing up for appointments for the pfizer doses that have already been approved additionally. very hopeful that will continue for those who got moderna and century the j&j show. comes in a week president biden's message wa don't get complacent. don't let up. he wanted people to be aware of that. yesterday a very important headline in terms of easing travel restrictions. something many overseas travelers hoped for, given that for 21 months there really were restrictions and requirements for people coming from more than 33 countries, that as of november 8th will be lifted, if those people coming in to the u.s. are fully vaccinated. we're talking about much of europe. talking about china.

also the uk. places that really were very hard-hit by covid waves in the last year or so, but now given the fact vaccinations are increasing globally, the white house feels confident about this and coming much to the relief and joy of many people who are waiting for this date. knew it would come in the fall and now have a target date. white house says guided by science and data. public health at the top of the list and feel very good about this decision, hallie. >> monica live at the white house. dr. john torres thanks to you as well. a lot more to talk about with nih direct dr. francis collins coming up in the show. we're told by sources about to get an update from california whether former president bill clinton will be released today. live outside the hospital. plus, looks like that texas abortion law is heading back to the supreme court. will justices side with the biden administration and put the law on hold this time?

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we are keeping an eye out here. sometime soon, an update on former president bill clinton's health according to a source close to us. he may be out of the hospital today. been there since tuesday treated for a non-covid-related condition. and what do you know and what are you hearing? >> reporter: first of all, hallie, no updates as of right now on any possible movements of the former president. although we are hearing that we are within the window of about 60 minutes or so of knowing whether or not he will be discharged from the hospital nap is a possibility today. but let's talk about a timeline. talk about the importance of the fact he's in the icu but not receiving intensive care.

he was taken to the hospital on tuesday night. this is after a function, he was feeling fatigued, sick. brought to the hospital. that's where he was diagnosed with that urological illness. that illness then spread to his blood. that's when things got serious. they administered and i.v. quickly. that i.v. had fluids, antibiotics. we're told his body responded to that extremely quickly. as of right now, in fact, he's up there walking around. he's been communicating with the staff, the doctors and nurses, and he's expected to recover quite well. i will say again, he was taken to the icu. did not receive intenive care because he was taken there for privacy concerns. the only reason he was ever there, if he is still there. meanwhile, well wishes from the former vice president, al gore. the secretary of state former secretary of state hillary clinton, his wife, is in there with him and we're told that the current president, joe biden, wanted to call his buddy at some point today, but they were

playing phone tag. here's what he said. listen to this. >> i know you're asking about president clinton. i've been exchanging calls. he seems to be -- god willing, doing well. and so when i talk to him i'll let you all know. >> reporter: again, of course, cause for concern here. a big scare. this week for friends and for family, for the nation onlooking. seem he will be discharged at some point very soon. could be even today and we'll know more within the next hour or so. hallie? >> steve patterson. stay close to a camera. bring you back when you get new information. and that restrictive abortion law. asking the supreme court to put the law on hold again. the latest request comes a day, remember, after an appeals court reinstated the law a third time. nbc's julia ainsley is following this. folks not immersed in this, feels a little like a ping-pong

ball. why is the doj going straight to the supreme court instead of the full fifth circuit and when might we see movement by the justices? >> reporter: hallie, i'm immersened-of-ed in it and still feels like a ping bong ball to me. you're absolutely right. right now the justice department will ask the supreme court to stay that latest injunction from the fifth circuit. we know it came from just three judges on that circuit, but the most conservative in the country. there wasn't a lot of hope that if they got all of the judges, what you call on bond to weigh in, they would reverse that decision. they're going to the supreme court already. they say they intend to do this. this follows ar the justice department did ask the court to reverse its decision. now they intend to go up to the supreme court. it's up to the justices when they will decide, but what's different now, hallie, from when the justice department weighed in before. remember, last month they declined to put a stay on the order. allowing this law to go forward.

it's different now, it's that the justice department is involved's when the supreme court weighed in, they were responding to challenges from texas abortion rights advocates, saying they couldn't proceed on procedural questions. now the justice department has refined the claim. they are going after the law itself, and so the supreme court could finally be asked to weigh in on the constitutionality of this law. even with all the ping-pong balls going back and forth, few times except in the district court in texas when ut law was overturned or put on hold, they actually weighed in whether or not this law was constitutional. what they've been weighing in on otherwise, whether or not the justice department or anyone suing over this law has the right to do so. >> julia ainsley. thank you for that breakdown. i know you'll stay on top of this for us. appreciate it. coming up, how ta that abortion law is having the biggest impact on people of color in texas. first, live one-on-one with

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no. more now on that news that

broke late this afternoon on johnson & johnson boosters shots. with the fda advisory panel unanimously recommending a second shot for emergency use authorization. joined by dr. francis collins, director of the national institutes of health. thank you for coming back on the show. >> i'm glad to be with you. a lot to talk about. >> you stole the words right out of my mouth. start with your reaction to the fda advisory panel recommendation on the j&j 3w5069 booster shot. how significance is this? >> both yesterday and today these are pretty significant moments figuring out about boosters going beyond pfizer, they decided about two, three weeks ago. yesterday was really clear-cut. if you had moderna, they clearly are in favor of you getting a moderna booster, over 5, a medical condition, exposesed to high risks like being a health care provider. today was let's say a little

more complicated because the j&j data was mostly about people who got a second dose just two months after their initial one, and it was very sketchy data about what happens if you wait longer. like six months which is what the other boosters have been. they still liked what they saw about the two month and so voted in favor. what's going on right now, the meeting is still kind of going to its conclusion, is talking about mix and match, hallie. that's been a big question. could you switch to a differenter booster than you started with? >> let's get into it. the fda panel briefed and results of the study into this issue. what are those findings so far? specifically, doctor, those who got j&j looking at can i get a pfizer or moderna booster? >> well, if you looked at the data presented today, and it was posted a couple days ago. we all had a chance to stare at

it. it did look as if you started with j&j, boosted with an mrna vaccine like pfizer or moderna, higher antibodies than if you boosted with j&j. again, let's be clear. these are indications of what your likely protection is but measures of antibodies we know correlate but are not perfect. yeah. a lot of people with that data would say, hmm, maybe if i got j&j, like my two grandkids did and i need a booster, maybe i'll switch over. fda didn't ask their advisory committee to vote on that, just discuss it. we'll see what happens over the course of the next week. remember, this comes to cdc next week. their advisory committee on immunization practices. they'll look at the same data. maybe by end of next week we'll have a consensus about what to say with regard to the question you just asked, about boosters for j&j. >> please, come back. we'll talk more about it. are we going to need booster

shots for covid every year, kind of like we do with the flu now? >> hallie, nobody knows. keep in mind, of course, we didn't know about this virus until 22 months ago's we are learning as we go along and trying to do everything we can to acquire that data. you can't speed up time, unless you have a time machine, in case you do, please, let me know. love to have that data, too. we have to see. there are people who believe that the third dose in a booster situation is actually going to be really effective and durable, and that might mean with three doses that we have immunization effectiveness for a long time. others go, show me the data, because maybe that one will start to wane, too. bottom line, we just don't know. the good news is, the vaccines work really well. remember where we were a year ago? afraid whether we'd even end up with one successful vaccine? now we have vaccines and boosters that are almost 100% effective against hospitalization and death.

that's pretty amazing's so -- be happy about that part. even though sometimes the data seems a little complicated. >> let me ask about another headline out this afternoon. your reaction. the "wall street journal" you may have seen reporting the fda is delaying a decision to authorize moderna's covid vaccine for teens so they can look into whether the shot may lead to a heightened risk of my myocarditis. how big of a concern is this? >> i think they're being very careful. that's fda's job. of course, the pfizer mrna vaccine has been approved for kids as young as 12 for several months. we do know that this rare side effect of myocarditis happens very uncommonly, one in many thousands kind of incidents, and primarily seems to be risk for younger males. countries in scandinavia recently raised the question whether that is more common with

moderna than with pfizer. fda has not seen evidence of that in any other studies. kind of skeptical about that, but i think they wanted to study a little longer before they decided to go ahead and approve moderna for kids as young as 12. this will get worked out. please, recognize, this is a very rare side effect. self-limited, resourceable. -- reversible. they could gain a lot from vaccinations and i'm disturbed here in the u.s. only about half of adolescence have gotten immunized even though school is back in session and they would be better off immunized at this point. >> i would be remiss if i let you go without asks you you're in this pags few months. asked intention to step down before end of year nap is raising questions about potential for a leadership void in the governmental health agencies at this critical time. we just this week got a nomination for permanent head of the fda, as you know.

people wondering when was that going to come. could you give consideration to staying on long jer why did you decide now is the right time for you to retire. >> again, i've been nih director more than 12 years. about twice the usual shelf life of any nih director. new scientific vision is a good thing. in a stable shape now. 27 ins students and centers led by remarkable scientistsmany i'm not worry be about this providing instability. hallie, i'm not sticking it out another three year, that's really too long i think. i need to give the president a chance to come up with the nominee and get it through senate confirmation and not have that happen so late in the term that it's hard to get it done. >> okay. name names? who would you like to see replace you, sir? >> oh i don't want to go there. that's going to be a really important discussion, and there are a lot of really talented people out there, and i would love it if it was woman and

we'll see how this stakes shape, but it won't be my call. >> nih director, i have to ask. dr. collins, thank you for coming on the show. big day. important to have your perspective, thank you. as reported earlier this hour, the justice department intending to take this to the supreme court. the law, most restrictive in the country, still in effect forcing people to make very difficult choices over unplanned or unintended pregnancies. the fallout, felt most by women of color in communities of fewer economic resources to be able to navigate this new law. i want to bring in our msnbc reporter. tremaine, glad to have you on. >> i appreciate you having me on. you mentioned, sb8 only law the

past couple of weeks. i was on the front lines. take a listen. in the six weeks since the controversial abortion law in texas went into affect, a lot happened. not much changed. that's putting advocates, patients and women's health care providers on edge. >> quite literally the wild, wild west, or call it the wild, wild southwest. >> reporter: michelle goodwin is a professor at uc irvine who sprewellizes in intersections of medicine, health and law. >> the law is so broadly written. i've read, reread and reread. it provides no definition what it means to aid and abet. >> reporter: taken effect september 1st the most restrictive abortion law in the country banning after feet activity is detected around six weeks but doesn't criminalize abortion outright. instead dep tootizes private citizens who can target anyone who helped end a pregnancy with

a lawsuit of at least $10,000. the legal maneuvering is forcing providers like marva sadler -- >> i am certain start a five-year prison sentence carrying an unwanted pregnancy. >> reporter: talking about a patient found out days before expected to report to prison. due to sb8 and tough abortion restrictions the state had on the books, even before the latest ban, sadler was forced to tell her, no. >> literally standing in my lobby and i could help her. there was absolutely no medical reason why we could not help her, yet i had to turn her away. and that is heart-wrernlging. >> reporter: the impact of sb 8 is felt more in some texas communities than others. >> this will definitely affect women of color, low-income in the community much more. >> reporter: and goodwin says

these laws mirror a dark time in our nation's history. >> we call these fugitive slave laws that made it legal for an individual to surveil, spy and hunt down black people. look at the texas law. it's quite similar. >> reporter: late monday the justice department filed a second challenge to the law, meaning the legal twists and turns will continue. goodwin believes that's exactly what law authors wanted. what do you think this series of decisions in the texas case says about what we might expect moving forward across the country? >> it's a playbook that sends a signal to other conservative state legislatures that want to interfere with reproductive health and justice. it basically says, do this very entangled, very tangled, trouble civil procedure and you'll get what you want. >> reporter: hallie, so many aspects of sb8 troubling to

pro-choice advocates and abortion providers in texas. one, the main part here, insurance mechanism that has folks in many communities feeling concerned for their safety. feel less safe now that this has fallen into the hands of actual citizens. >> so important. thank you so much. a lot more on the latest into america podcast. listen now anywhere you get your podcasts, please to so. coming up, joe manchin's ties to the oil, coal and gas industries and policies set to make our break the democratic agenda. a bombshell story nbc news broke and is all over the question. it's actually not a question. opposing, quote/unquote, opposing view on the holocaust. why one school leader in texas raised this at all. we're talking about it, next. e now for the first time one medication was approved to treat and prevent migraines. nurtec is the first and only option proven to treat

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as budget negotiations on capitol hill start to intensify, really cull ing tocoming to a h a deeper look on democrats social spending and climate package. that's senator joe manchin and his position on key climate conditions. context is important, worth keeping in mind. senator manchin chairs the senate energy committee making him central to how the latest policies are created. his criticing say he also holds stocks in polluting industries and a research organization that tracks political spending, top recipient of donations from oil, gas and coal industries. the biggest sticking point in the climate provisions, skepticism of the clean energy performance program and concerns what it means for energy reliability. here's the deal on that. the plan incentivizes utilities to switch to clean energy faster. we have to note manchin said he is not against the transition to

clean energy. a few weeks back he said, all for clean energy but also for producing the amount of energy we need to make sure we have reliability. nbc's reporter is on capitol hill with more. as we take a deeper dive into this, you've reached out to the senator's office on all of this swirling. what are you hearing? >> reporter: i have reached out to senator manchin's office and responses gave up on the screen. senator joe manchin in full compliance with all of the rules of all disclosure and ethics rules around this issue and sources close to the center say he's driven, you see the statement on the screen there. senator in full compliance whip senate ethics and financial disclosure rules continue to work to find a path forward on important climate legislation maintaining american leadership and energy innovation and critical energy reliability. sources close to the senator point out he's willing to do far more on the issue of climate change than anybody else on the

virginia delegation, a red state president trump won by nearly 40 points believe his willingness to act on that benchmark less so what progressives are willing to do. >> can you talk about this reliability issue senator manchin brings unas relates to clean energy and what that might look like? >> reporter: absolutely. i've talked to three sources to understand senator manchin's thinking on the issue of clean energy. two basic things are driving him on the issue. first, he sees the u.s. is already transitioning off fossil fuels and not interesting in legislating a set of policies that does what the market is already doing anyway. they have to convince it's not fast enough and more action is needed. second, what to do about the jobs in west virginia. obviously a coal state. a lot of coal jobs at risk if you transition to clean energy and a couple ways to deal with this. first you just pay salaries of coal miners and workers.

manchin rejected that idea, considers it a handout. heard from people in west virginia who consider it welfare and not interested going that route, even though in the context of a multitrill dollar bill an easy solution to make them hole. the work-around he's more interested in, finding them new jobs in the area of carbon capture or in what experts call firm energy, new jobs in nuclear and advanced geothermal and hydro. so basically these two things are linked together, because the more aggressively you move on to clean energy the more coal jobs at risk and you create a need to act on those and make the workers whole again. one source, a democrat working on this calling it a complicated puzzle. it's keeping people up at night. hallie? >> sounds like it. thank you so much for that breakdown. appreciate it, my friend. next up, is q running for congress next year? yeah. we're talking about it, after the break. w, w

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[tv announcer] come on down to our appliance superstore where we've got the best deals on refrigerators, microwaves, gas ranges and grills. and if you're looking for... now to an nbc news exclusive. our new report this afternoon on a texas city at center avenue firestorm over diversity and inclusion. this time secretly recorded

comments of a school administrator talking about books on the holocaust creating real outrage in south lake. nbc news correspondent antonio hilton joins me with more of the reporting. talk us through what was said in this. people may have already heard it. it's gone viral. and the reaction. >> reporter: exactly right. the story has gone further than i or my co-reporter could have imagined, but it's so telling of the pressures that educators are under across the country right now as we see laws restricting the way people can talk about race or controversial subjects in schools. as they are moving along coming in to place right now. what is happening in this community here in south lake which is right outside of dallas, is that there was a meeting where administrators were trying to teach teachers essentially how to work and do their jobs under these new laws that have passed in texas, restricting off of this. this administrator made a

suggestion to teachers that, for example, if you have books about the holocaust in your classroom, you need to have books with an opposing or other perspective. hear for yourself how community and teachers are processing all of this. take a listen. >> reporter: a parent of two daughters is uncertain about his kids' education. >> some of the local politics right now, i'm not sure that teachers feel supported. >> reporter: the district already in the spotlight after parents clashed over its diversity plan. now facing new pushback over which books are aloud in the libraries. some teachers placing caution tape over book shelves calling the movecensorship. 2 it started with a fourth grade teacher. >> i couldn't believe. it the kind of teacher we hoped the school district to attract.

>> reporter: and considered offensive looks not allowed. banningteaching of anguish due to their race. secret recording audio of a school training. >> we are in the secretly recor of a school train sthoog we are in the middle of a political mess. >> reporter: gina petty offers an example for teachers. balance books about the holocaust with an opposing view. >> make sure that you have a book about the holocaust make sure you have one with opposing -- >> how do you oppose the holocaust? >> reporter: we met with two teachers in south lake. we obscured their identities because they fear losing their jobs. >> i was in such shock when i heard these words. >> we felt this was necessary because we felt like no one was going to listen until a teacher

spoke up. >> reporter: it's not just in south lake. across the country, educators are facing new policies restricting how they can educate students about race, from tennessee to pennsylvania. south lake's school district told nbc news they were helping teachers comply with texas law and the district has not and will not mandate books be removed. the districts says they have not told teachers to ban books, to completely shut down libraries. what are you seeing? >> that's a lie. it is a flat-out lie. how could you even make that statement? >> reporter: what do you think is at stake here. >> no books children see what the world can be. and to have that taken away because we are afraid of a few parents getting upset about a word or two or an idea they imagined is in a book is untriable. >> reporter: wes fireson says his daughters see what is happening. >> unfortunately, for kids the age of mine i think as they

become aware of the world i think they see the world as highly politicized. >> reporter: parents hope that politics find a way out of public schools. teachersing the me they are taking these risks and speaking up because what's at stake are the materials kids are going to have access to, the books they can read. and for many kids who live outside of big cities this is how they learn about other people, how they learn empathy for people who don't think like or look like then. >> antonia hillon, really incredible reporting. we are glad to have you on to talk about it with us. thank you so much. >> if you want to go behind the story more and learn about the making of antonia's very successful original podcast series south lake go over to msnbc.com. how big a roll are conspiracy theories going in the republican party? we are not talking about lies or

election fraud, but qanon, its core belief that a group of saidan worshipping elites run a child sex ring while donald trump wage as secret war against them. which is completely false. it's not true. now, the guy who is some internet sleuths might be q, ron watkins is anounsing a run for congress in arizona also saying earlier he met with the candidate who president trump endorsed from arizona. talk to us about the potential impacts of watkins' run and what we know even know about his links to qanon. why is he somebody who is speculated as the mysterious shadowy ring leader? >> thanks for having me on. the origins of g anone come from a message board that ron watkins

and his father ran. over the past years he and his father posted mysterious q drops, were which esoteric know tredom as like messages reportedly from q saying there would be mass purges of these pedophiles from the u.s. government. obviously, none of that came true. but over time, all of these conspiracy theories ended up motivating a vast section of trump supporters, elevated by trump himself, into thinking that trump was an all-powerful figure working behind the scenes to get rid of, you know, said pedophileless. after january 20th when it was clear there was no magic wands that was going to keep donald trump in power ron watkins went on social media saying well u know, baby q was in so many words in the friends we made along the way. saying we have this community now.

maybe there isn't a q, maybe the promise of a purge is never going to happen but that means we have to take on the fight. for the past months you have seen ron watkins pop up in all of these prominent conspiracy-laden events. he was speaking at mike lindell's cyber symposium and trying to figure out whether a machine in arizona had been hacked. that was clearly the and most obviously the next step in his crusade against voter fraud. and i have no idea whether it is going to gain any electoral influence. at the same time, it is going to mobilize a huge section of conspiracy internet behind him. he could be fund-raising. he could be at events now. and people like the media, you and me, we'll have to talk about this on air. >> also, just -- again, we talk about this a lot when we do these segments, we grapple to pull back the curtain with how much did we talk about it, how much do we don't?

to give something this bonkers oxygen is a tough thing to to. at the same time you know, he is having dinner with cary lake, the trump-backed governor of arizona. right? what should we keep an eye on as relates to her and her position with qanon. >> you have to go back early in the trump administration when he still had his twitter account. what he did was retweet accounts that had been espounsing qanon beliefs. that was seen by these followers as covert endorsement of what they were talking about, what they were believing. over time you never saw trump say, no, this is crazy. i have nothing to do with this. no definitive condemnation. and now that he is staked his entire presidency and his return to office -- his hypothetical return to office on the idea that there is some sort of election fraud of course he is going to be endorsing these candidates who agree with him.

of course he's going to nod to ron watkins's run, possibly call him a great patriot. and this is possible -- i have no idea how much of this will translate into votes. even if it does, they are probably going to claim oh, these were fake votes anyways. but it is probably going to keep this message afloat at least through the mid terms -- definitely through the midterms, at least through 2024 and who knows how far into the future. >> always great to have you on to break these things down. appreciate it. appreciate all of you watching this hour of hallie jackson reports on a friday afternoon. i will see you tomorrow on saturday today filling in for peter alexander. in the meantime, deadline white house starts right now, after this quick break. this quick break there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark.

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hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. the last best chance to hold the twice impeached and twice acquitted expresident account sbl upon us. the committee investigating the january 6th insurrection is expected to send a criminal contempt referral on steve bannon. republicans and democrats were out in force last night sending a clear signal to the