this situation. you know, they've run a very aggressive docket looking into those police departments and prison systems that are violating the rights of people in this country. doj civil rights division has asked for about a $25 million budget increase that would give them 60 more prosecutors next year to go over these practice cases. that would be the best solution here. >> we need to encourage that sort of solution. i appreciate all the time you put into this and the teaching you've done. joyce vance is a teacher at the university of alabama, and is a law professor that learns a lot about what they contend with. the director of the national institutes of health is set to leave his post by year's end.

here's what he had to say about how the country handled covid and what he would do differently if he could do it all over. straight ahead, congresswoman debbie dingell joins the situation. we have january 6 to cover and a whole lot more. "velshi" begins right now. good morning to you. it is 9:00 a.m. in the east, 6:00 a.m. out west. in two days, steve bannon will find out if the insurrection of the former president might cost him his freedom. the ally of the twice impeached ex-president is facing criminal contempt charges for failure to supply with a subpoena by the committee investigating the attack. it battles with other stubborn loyalists to gain crucial information about one of the

events with the most shocking results to our democracy. the committee investigates the deadly january 6 insurrection and the days leading up to it. as it continues to probe, panel members and house intel chair adam schiff says no one is off limits, including the ex-president. >> one thing that we are very uniform about is that we will go to whoever has this information that we need. no one is off the table. >> including donald trump himself? >> no one is off the table. >> democrats are also juggling infrastructure negotiations this week. as one of president biden's build back better issues in the infrastructure plan could be off the table. it's called clean energy manufacture answer program. it requires companies to go from

fossil fuels to clean energy. it would clean the air by 50% a a -- according to the plan. joe manchin's opposition to this program isn't that surprising, but a spokesman for the "new york times" says, senator manchin has clearly used his concerns to pay for doing things they're already doing. regardless of the reason, manchin's position is bound to create new headaches for the administration as democrats work to finalize this spending package. joining me now is yamiche alcindor. thank you for coming on. it's a pleasure to be with you.

in terms of a $3.5 trillion plan and manchin saying it's a $1.5 trillion plan. the question is, what does it do and what does it get people and the cost after that? we are in this pitch battle to bring the amount of that bill down by a few key moderates who need to support it. >> that's right, ali, and good morning. it's great to be with you. this really does come down to the idea that from the very beginning this was a sort of shaky system, a sort of shaky deal that the democrats and republicans put together. the president, the moment that he swaggered onto the white house driveway which was very unusual to announce there was a deal, only a few hours later he said, i'm not going to sign the bipartisan bill if i don't also get this larger democrat-supported bill. manchin got angry and the president had to walk it back a bit. but you see a deal building with

childhood lead and dealing with roads and bridges, it's what we would consider a hard infrastructure. then president biden has really been pitching the idea of human infrastructure, free college, free aid to health care workers, free child care, all of that is in the infrastructure of the country. and that really is about how people live and work in this country. it's about how people survive in an economy hit by covid. how people are dealing with the sort of everyday issues, child care being a huge one. when you look at the september jobs report, you realize women are leaving the workplace in droves and it's because of child care. it's really anyone's guess whether or not this could really go through. when i talk to white house officials, they say there are projects in these negotiations. you have aoc and progressives talking about taxing the

wealthy. you realize there is a big gap that needs to be filled there, and president biden is trying to do it but it's an uphill battle. >> joe manchin used an expression. he said, this is going to turn america into an entitlement society. that's language -- you're not even old enough to necessarily remember, but you remember that's what republicans used to say all the time, right? any time you use money that you don't get by working, it's entitlements, and it's framed as a bad thing, entitlements. >> that's right, you have democrats talking about transformational change and talking about people needing the government to step in and help them, and then you talk about joe manchin talking about an entitlement society, and i am old enough to remember, or at least old enough to have studied when a certain president talked about welfare cleaning, that being president reagan. they go right back to the idea of using the word entitlement, it's really a stereotypical way

of saying these are lazy black people, lazy people of color, lazy poor people, because we shouldn't help them, because whatever financial situation they're in, whatever struggles they're going to, it's their fault. joe manchin, his take on this, he has a different idea of what critics say this is, but at the end of the day, just that language makes these negotiations harder. so you have president biden in here, some lawmakers calling him the closer, but i can tell you just talking to white house officials, that use of entitlement really complicates the work that president biden has ahead of him. >> yamiche, always good to see you. thank you. yamiche alcindor, moderator. congresswoman debbie dingell is with us. good to see you, thank you for being with us. i've been talking to house progressives in the last week

and they actually sounded much more hopeful while acknowledging the fact that progressives are going to have to come down from what their initial sense of a full package was. >> ali, we do not have a choice. we have to land this plane. i think everybody has had a good two weeks at home. they've taken deep breaths. they've listened to their constituents. we need to come back and close the deal. it's going to have has been hands-on involved in this. we need to bring both sides together. this has to get done. there is too much information out there that's not true, too much information that people don't understand what this is really about. code words like the one you just talked about. we have to get back and get this done. >> congresswoman, i want to ask you, earlier i was talking about the supply chain. not a lot that people think about in this country because we think produce comes from the grocery store and everything else comes from the shop. you're from michigan. you understand the supply chain

very, very well. in fact, that was the very example of supply chain issues that this country had to face. what do you think about alleviating this overall so-called supply chain problem we've got in the united states that's a contributor to the inflation that we're seeing? >> first of all, i thought the chart you did this morning was excellent. a lot of people don't understand what the supply chain is or what it means. we've got an important, significant role to play. for a long time people just thought of it -- well, they didn't think about it. covid helped them understand how reliant we've become on other countries and how it has become a national security issue. but in the instance of the auto industry, right now we have plants that are remaining closed. the auto industry's sales projections will be down this year because we don't have the

supply from other countries. that's what happened. when you don't treat people a decent way, you end up in situations like this. it's a national security issue. what you showed this morning is also what's happening to us in this country. drivers, trucks, having to get something from one place to another. we've got to, one, we've got to fund the government so that we can keep creating jobs and not relying on foreign countries. but we also need to make sure that we are affording the economy to help with the backlog, so ships aren't sitting out in a port for days. there is a lot of different things we could be doing. >> another supply chain issue you know a lot about because of

the district you represent is the trouble that we've had moving people back and forth between canada and the united states and the united states and other countries because of covid. it looks like some of these restrictions are going to be lifted, i think november 8 or november 9. how does that change things for your constituents, for the people of michigan? >> it's been interesting. by the way, most people don't realize that the hospitals in michigan are staffed by nurses that live in canada. that was an immediate issue that had to be addressed even under the trump administration. i took that on with the deputy secretary of state those first few weeks. but now the auto industry is very connected -- well, all three countries, but there is a lot less stress in the canadian u.s. relationship and production can stop without being able to go back and forth. this is going to make it easier for the countries, for the

logistics of going back and forth for product to get where it needs to go. that is a critical component. the industry had what's called just in time with management. it means just in time to be used. it doesn't work in this day and age. >> we're all used to the fact you can order something and get it the next day. we don't think about it until it breaks. congresswoman, good to see you, as always. thank you, congresswoman debbie dingell from michigan. a group of 17 u.s. missionaries and their families were kidnapped by gang members in port-au-prince yesterday on their way home from building an orphanage. the "washington post" said it obtained an audio message from one of the abducted americans pleading for help. a u.s. spokesperson said they

are aware of the reports but they wouldn't go any further than that. they had an assassination of their former president in july, a massive earthquake that killed more than 2200 people there. in august it's also seen a major rise in kidnappings as that group gains control. we're getting more on this story and we will bring it to you as it comes in. coming up on "velshi," is it the grand party or the grand opposition party? we're talking about the fissure separating the right from the radicals to the rationals. the race for governor of the commonwealth is close, very close. we'll discuss that. then you know we love science on "velshi," especially when it comes to the covid-19 pandemic. we're coming to you directly from the national institutes of health. from the national institutes of health

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the words we use with one another matter. despite what you learned about sticks and stones, unkind words can be dangerous, especially to members of the binary or non-gender. in his latest controversy, chappelle says something offensive to the trans community. the use of gender use pronouns take a little getting used to. when you and i actively choose to reject and prove someone's identity, their life may be endangered. and though there is a lot of opinion on this show, it's fact.

last year was the most deadly year for gender conforming and non-conforming people. 37 trans people were killed in america in 2020. 22 of those 37 were black trans women. in 2019, the fbi recorded almost 200 hate crimes against transgender or non-conforming people. the actual number is believed to be much higher because hate crimes are drastically underreported. anti-trans stigma and the belief that trans women aren't, quote, real women, are a cause of this hate and violence. trans people can't avoid the freedoms and liberties and take it for granted. as long as that stigma exists, trans people will be denied opportunities, denied health care, benefits in the workplace. they could face murder. imagine having to defend yourself every single day, having to convince every person

you meet that you are the gender you say you are. for many trans people in this world, there is no safe space anywhere except maybe at home and often not home. but even renting a home or getting a mortgage are harder for a trans person than it is for others according to trans advocates. if you're threatened by a trans person, it's worth recognizing that your mindset and your words are much more dangerous to them than their existence is to you. it's going to take work on all of our parts to ensure that trans people are treated with equality, justice, compassion and respect, and when we recognize the weight of our words, we can make progress on this deadly issue. transphobic people are not funny. for those of us privileged with a platform and a voice, it is not too much to ask that we do better with transgender and non-conforming people. it's basically human nature to

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covid-19 booster shots are on the way to help millions of americans in the fight against coronavirus. an fda advisory panel have recommended the use of boosters for both the moderna and johnson & johnson vaccines. it's now up to the fda itself and the cdc to give their stamps of approval. the cdc is set to meet this week to make that decision, and the questions needed answering are whether or not one can mix vaccines and the timeline for children. the prior administration and his bumbling group tried their best not to promote vaccines for covid. deny, deny, deny, instead of

telling them what they knew and when they knew them. they created panic and in the end was justified. if you need to remember how bad it was, here's a refresher from alex gibb's documentary, "totally under control." >> the scientists sounded the alarm every day the u.s. government was doing nothing. >> it's like a miracle, one day it will disappear. it will be wonderful. it will be a gift from heaven. >> it's complete [ bleep ]. he has no idea what he's talking about. >> do you take responsibility? >> i take no responsibility at all. >> we've never had a failure like this. >> we have it totally under control. >> through the lies and chaos, there were heroes, voices of calm and scientific reasoning that persisted through the beginning of the pandemic until now. earlier this month, it was

announced that dr. francis collins will be retiring as the director of national constitutes of health. dr. collins is the longest serving nih director, having served three presidents over the course of 12 years. i was saddened by this news. dr. collins has always graciously agreed to come on this show to keep you at home informed, and dr. collins joins me now. dr. collins, thank you for everything you have done for this nation and the time you've taken to explain it all to us. and i know that you are a presidential appointee, and you can't comment on all the things i just said, but i do want to ask you, now that we're on the other side -- or at least it feels like we're getting to the other side of this before i discuss vaccines with you, what do you think about how we got through this, and what would you have done differently knowing what you know today? >> well, ali, thanks. it's nice to go back with you on your show. you always do such a good job getting the facts out there for

people. looking back, i think we underestimated the vaccine hesitancy issue. we were so totally devoted to try to get the best science brought forward to make these vaccines happen and to make sure they were safe and effective. that outstripped our expectations in just 11 months, having vaccines that met the highest possible standards for emergency use, and yes, then the big push was get them out there, get them into people's arms. surely people will come around. yeah, some people are a little skeptical, but as they begin to see the benefits, we won't really run into that much resistance, will we? here we are today, 66 million americans still have yet to get that first injection. and today we are losing about 1500 people to covid-19 deaths. that's like, you know, five jumbo jets crashing every day, and all, for the most part, preventable because almost all

of these are unvaccinated people. i wish we had somehow seen that coming and come up with some kind of a myth buster approach to try to block all of the misinformation and disinformation that's gotten out there, all tangled up in politics and which is is costing lives. >> i agree with you. we were talking in december and january and that scene came out and i thought, there is no way everybody is going to go for this. we were hard-pressed to get the vaccine, and i think we all misinterpreted that one a little bit. let's talk about johnson & johnson. they're talking about a booster for this. some of the fda panel folks expressed a concern that maybe this was mismarketed, maybe the j&j vaccine was always supposed to be a two-dose vaccine, and people i spoke to said most vaccines are multiple doses. i think with the exception of smallpox, almost all are and we shouldn't be too surprised by this. what's your thought on it? >> i think that's right, most

vaccines for viruses are like that, and we should not be surprised that you get a better result, therefore, with two doses of j&j than just one. i have two grandchildren that got j&j, they're very interested in this discussion right now. i think it's very noble for johnson & johnson to do this, because we still have people to get vaccines in other countries. it's so much easier to get one dose and that's what johnson & johnson was aiming for. let's be clear. you still get pretty good protection. if the mrna vaccines hadn't been so incredibly effective, we would be saying, johnson & johnson, one dose is great. but there are mixed reactions because of what mrna is anyone to do. >> if you get a dose of a different vaccine, the efficacy

is greater. we're not settled on this discussion yet, but there are a lot of people waiting to get their booster saying, i want to wait to find out exactly what i should get as my booster. >> exactly. this data was discussed on friday with the fda's advisory committee, nih data. we ran that study doing a mix and match. we've got three vaccines, let's try every possible combination of what you start with, what you get boosted with and see what happens. the big news there was the mrna vaccines seemed to work really well boosting everything. they actually boost johnson & johnson better than another johnson & johnson dose. if you're measuring antibodies, a little caveat there, it doesn't prove you get higher protection but it's a pretty good predictor of that. wait and see. the cdc is going to chew on this data this week. maybe a week from now we'll have a clear recommendation. if you're someone who got j&j like my two grandkids, wait a

week before you decide what is the right thing to do as far as a booster. i think it will become more clear as that data gets sorted through. >> there are two things to do to fully get rid of this plague, this pandemic. the one you discussed, and it is the vaccine hesitancy, and we're still trying to figure that out. the other one is the vaccination of children. why do you think we are now in terms of the timeline by which all children will be able to be vaccinated? >> well, we're closing in on the opportunity for all of the data that pfizer has submitted to fda on their vaccine for 5 to 11-year-olds to be publicly reviewed. that's october 26th. the same fda advisory committee will look at that. we'll see what they say. the data made by the company is pretty good. they tested the vaccine on more than 2,000 kids. this is at one-third the dose you would give an adult. and if you measure the antibody levels in an 11-year-old, they

look really good, that this one-third dose is sufficient. the safety looks good as well. but let's see what the discussion turns into on october 26th, and then again, remember, we go through this drill each time. first the fda looks at it. the fda leadership makes a decision based on that recommendation, then cdc's advisory looks at it, then the cdc decides. we won't have an answer by halloween, but it will be close. sometime the first week of november we should have a sense whether this will happen. kids could be getting injected before thanksgiving, ages 5 to 11. data is being collected on even younger kids, 2 to 4-year-olds and up to two months age. if all looks good, they can get immunized by early 2022. >> dr. collins, you have been fair and measured and honest in

your presentations with us. you always agreed to do them. i think you still have a few months on the job, so i hope you will come back, but i wanted to talk to you today to offer on behalf of my viewers our thanks for the services you have performed under some very, very difficult circumstances. >> ali, that's very kind of you. yes, i'm sticking it out until the end of the year or thereabouts. i'm not dead yet, so if you've got questions, i'll try to provide answers. >> we appreciate that, sir. dr. francis collins is the director of the national institutes of health. well, some rest for hollywood's weary. the international alliance for stage actor employees has reached a tentative deal, including a wage increase and employee-funded benefits. clearly we have a ways to go before working for the silver screen is totally equitable. even so, a win is a win, and they are calling it that, writing, this is our hollywood

ending. our members stayed firm, they are tough and they are united. terms of the deal need to be ratified today to avoid a major strike come monday, but our congratulations to the iatsi union. coming up next, representative glenn youngkin and terry mcauliffe are neck and neck. they have major stumping being done for them, including two key presidents you might know of. more on that race is next. e is . reminds her that she has e the farmers home policy perk, guaranteed replacement cost. and that her home will be rebuilt, regardless of her limits or if the cost of materials has gone up. (woman) that's really something. (burke) get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks. wait, i didn't ruin the ending, did i? (woman) yeah, y-you did. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ introducing fidelity income planning. we look at how much you've saved, how much you'll need, and build a straightforward plan to generate income,

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democratic heavy hitters are heading to virginia in the coming days to boost turnout for what turns out to be a tight and closely knit race for governor. voting rights activists and former gubernatorial candidate stacey abrams will hit the campaign trail for mcauliffe

with multiple stops across the state. mcauliffe pulls out the big guns with former president obama stepping up. youngkin didn't even attend the rally that he held. this has major implications for the parties. watch as they step up their campaigns. >> folks, how are we doing today? >> reporter: an inside look at the first major election in the joe biden era, the hotly contested race for virginia governor, with republicans looking to take it from the democrats, favored terry mcauliffe. >> trump wants to claim a big victory here and use it as a launch pad. >> reporter: so if you do not

win this race, is that a reflection on the democratic party? >> if we don't win the race -- we're going to win the race -- >> terry mccall mcauliffe is a long-time friend of the clintons. just last year joe biden beat president trump by 10. which asks the question, does that hold? the gop now relying on its own enthusiasm. >> our liberal leadership believes the government knows what's best for your children. let me tell you, folks. i believe the exact opposite.

>> reporter: the former private equity firm owner is in a tight spot. the former president's endorsement should help. the campaign, though, denying our request for an interview. >> reporter: do you mind if we ask a few quick questions? >> we're running late. >> reporter: they also want to win back suburban voters, where in some places there was a 40% swing. >> they care about who you are and what are you delivering for me and my family? >> they face some major challenges in washington. president biden's rising 40% approval rating, stalled efforts to come up with an infrastructure package. >> reporter: has the infrastructure package stopped the negotiating? >> i would like that

infrastructure package. get it in the house and pass it for america. >> reporter: they have selected the party opposite of the party that's in the white house. you have selected this race as a referendum of youngkin and trump. >> yeah. >> will this race also be a referendum of you and president biden? >> we did it. >> that was vaughn hillyard reporting. i want to bring in jonathan capehart. good morning, jonathan. >> great to see you and a fantastic package by vaughn hillyard on that race. as you mentioned, i will be talking to terry mcauliffe about his campaign. he will be campaigning with stacey abrams later today in the first souls to the polls event

in virginia, the first time people in virginia can vote on a sunday. we'll be talking about the polls and why this race is so close, especially for terry mcauliffe who was a very successful governor eight years earlier. we'll be talking about ail of that. also, ali, we'll be talking to, at the top of the show, congressman adam schiff, chair of the intelligence committee, also on the january 6 house select committee. he was the lead impeachment manager in trump's first impeachment. there is a new book out. we're going to talk about that book, about the committee, and what happens tuesday in the event of steve bannon and a criminal contempt citing of him. >> it's going to be a great show. we're also looking forward -- i think you're hearing from the state representative of texas. he's covering all the stories. i look forward to it, my friend.

i'll be watching. jonathan capehart is the sunday show right after "velshi" at 10:00 a.m. eastern. we're going to be discussing the biggest problem of the republican party. stay with us to hear about the future of that party. arty stay with us to hear about the future of that party ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ fine, no one leaves the table until your finished. to fine, we'll sleep here.d.

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♪and make you understand♪ get a dozen double crunch shrimp for $1 with any steak entrée. only at applebee's. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. the soul of the republican party remains trapped in an ongoing game of tug-of-war. on one side you've got the so-called radicals, trump sycophants, the ones who have no problem telling the big lie. the rational voice in the party has been constantly drowned out by the other. you might remember back in may a group of more than 100 former republican officials signed a letter threatening to make a third party if the radicals did not break with trump. we've seen a fuller break with

trump in the months following. as the republicans continually lose their foothold in the party and elections less than a year away, they are testing out a new strategy with voters. it's written by two prominent former public officials, quote, rational republicans are losing the republican civil war, and the only way to get back is for all of us to team up on key political races with our long-time political opponents, the democrats, end quote. joining me now are the authors of that "new york times" piece, miles taylor, former chief of staff in the trump administration, and teresa whitman, former governor of new jersey. thank you for being with us to both of you. governor whitman, let me start with you. at some point this feels like an intellectual exercise, right? conservatives saying we have to beat donald trump, we have to

make sure he and his people and his sycophants don't continue to hold sway with the republican party. but it has to become republican at some point. someone has to run against trump that is viable. when does that happen? when does the coalition of democrats turn into you and others like you actually reclaiming the republican party for yourselves or creating a new republican party? >> well, we're basically starting that now with our effort on renewing america movement. what we're doing is -- and we did it last week. we identified ten republicans, ten democrats who faced challenges in their races, but who are the practical principle pragmatists. those who realize they took an oath to the office, not to their party. the ones who don't believe what happened on january 6 was just another tourist visit. by electing those people, by reassuring they get reelected, we're trying to provide that

balance, again, ensuring and sending a message to the other republicans saying, look, these are republicans you can support, but these are also democrats you can support because these are the kind of people who care so much about the rule of law and our constitution. what's been amazing to me has been the responses we've gotten. thousands of people from both sides of the aisle saying, we heard you, we're ready for this. democrats as well as republicans are longing for something in the center that really represents them and will speak to them. >> even democrats who don't want a republican tend to understand the danger in the collapse of an entire political party. miles, i want to read something from the column that the two of you wrote. we can't tolerate the continued hijacking of a major political party by those who continue to tear down republican guardrails

or who are willing to put one man's interests ahead of the country. we cannot tolerate republican leaders in 2022 or in the a sor threatening letter to say, for those of you who do not continue to support these stupid audits and the idea that the election wasn't won, i'm going to tell my supporters to not vote republican in 2022 and 2024. so he is suggesting an actual tactic. what do you think of that? >> well, i don't know. this is, ali, probably one of the first times in a long time that donald trump and i are basically on the same page. if republican voters go forward with that strategy, it largely helps our effort in re-electing and unifying moderate democrats. look, he's a fool and i'm the first person in the world who would rather just stop talking about donald trump, but he's still in the conversation. so much so, ali, that you're

seeing really scary rhetoric about republicans saying that if they take back the house, there's actually a possibility to make donald trump speaker. few people know this, but the speaker of the house does not have to be an elected member of congress. and there are some republican members of congress who would want to make donald trump the speaker. that is pretty spooky to me. and i think most voters would be pretty terrified of the prospect of donald trump coming back into government after the midterms, so this is not a joke. i mean, these midterms are extremely serious. and whether or not donald trump adopts an absurd strategy of trying to get republicans not to vote or, you know, trying to rig elections, we're still in the fight of our lives here. and as you noted at the top end, the rational republicans are not winning the gop civil war, but we can win the broader war for the soul of our political system, if we do team up with democrats in this cycle. >> that is the underlying point, because on that, most americans are aligned. the overwhelming majority of americans are aligned on the

idea that this republic and its democracy are worth preserving. hang on, both of you. i want to take a quick break so we can pay the bills. we've got more of this conversation after a quick break. got more of this conversation after a quick break. ♪♪ when you really need to sleep you reach for the really good stuff. new zzzquil ultra helps you sleep better and longer when you need it most. it's non habit forming and powered by the makers of nyquil. new zzzquil ultra. when you really really need to sleep.

♪♪ your new pharmacy is here. to make sure you don't run out of meds here. and with amazon prime, get refills and free two-day shipping. who knew it could be this easy? your new pharmacy is amazon pharmacy. it's moving day. and while her friends are doing the heavy lifting, who knew it could be this easy? jess is busy moving her xfinity internet and tv services. it only takes about a minute. wait, a minute? but what have you been doing for the last two hours? ...delegating? oh, good one.

move your xfinity services without breaking a sweat. xfinity makes moving easy. go online to transfer your services in about a minute. get started today. ever wonder how san francisco became the greenest big city in america? just ask the employee owners of recology. we built the recycling system from the ground up, helping san francisco become the first city in the country to have a universal recycling and composting program for residents and businesses. but it all starts with you. let's keep making a differene together. a new op-ed in "the new york times" written by two republicans has a big ask for their party. unite with the democrats to break away from donald trump. back with me, miles taylor, former chief of staff for the department of homeland security

under the trump administration and christine todd whitman, the former republican governor of new jersey. governor, let's talk about some names. in the end, republicans or a new party that was the republican party need to put somebody up to run for president. and you look at some of the sensible names in the republican party that may make sense on paper, but do they -- do they manage to overcome a donald trump, a mitt romney, a jush jeb bush, a jon huntsman. i spoke to avon mcmullen on friday night. what kind of being do you think about that leads this new party, so one day republicans and conservatives can actually have a candidate that they can be proud of who might be president of the united states? >> first of all, i'm concentrating on this next election cycle, which is what we're really focused on, but i want someone who believes in the rule of law, who supports the constitution, who understands that our democratic republic is

fragile. and we need to protect it. it and we've unfortunately had a man for four years who seemed to be determined to undermine it. constitution was an inconvenient document and the rule of law didn't apply to him. and that has spread. what we're seeing now is a really con certified effort to undermine the voters' confidence in our electoral system. and whoever we put up isn't going to matter, if people honestly believe that if they can -- if they lose, they can resort to violence the way we saw on january 6th to overturn an election. that that's perfectly legitimate. you have 21 million people, apparently, who feel that resorting to violence to overcome the outcome of an election is acceptable. that's the kind of mind-set that donald trump has promoted in this country and it is so dangerous to our future. so our concentration is, let's get those people who understand how fragile our system is and how important it is to protect it. get them in office in this next cycle, and then we can worry

about the presidential and look for those kinds of people that understand that they took an oath of office to the constitution, not to a party. >> and miles, i see the point, right. i get what you said. that point you made about donald trump as the possible next speaker of the house, like, that's weird. but i get the point that this thing has to be won on the ground in these legislative races, in these congressional races in 2022. but you are running against a figurehead whom we're yet to see how much ammunition he has in his cannon, but donald trump keeps firing cannon balls across the bow of democracy. what do you do in terms of a ring leader? who is the ringleader? is it you and your group of people, or you starting to see the need for there to be someone who can look like a viable alternative to donald trump, even in congressional elections? >> well, look, ali, as insipid as it sounds, the ringleaders are the millions of disaffected republicans around the country who can be majority makers in

these upcoming elections. we showed that we could do it in 2020. joe biden in large part is president of the united states because we convinced disaffected republicans to flip their votes for trump from 2016 and vote for joe biden in 2020. that is not an insignificant thing. i actually think that was one of the most significant political developments of the past 50 or so years that you saw that sort of a switch. so those are the folks that are going to be ringringleaders. in terms of a real figurehead who can lead this movement, we'll see. there are good leaders on the disaffected center right that could step forward. you mentioned my good friend evan mcmullen who founded ram with me and is running for senate against mike lee as an independent, a very novel race and a real experiment in what governor whitman and i are calling coalition campaigning. not coalition government, not running a coalition government with the democrats, but coalition campaigning and teaming up with them to go win races that otherwise would be

unwinnable. i think that test in this cycle in the midterms is going to help us determine whether we can do something like that on a bigger scale in 2024. and i'll say this, if donald trump is the nominee of the republican party, i actually do think in 2024, you will see the greatest viability for a third party candidate that we've ever seen in american politics, and so we'll be trying to build the foundation for that if it's needed. >> i thank you for what you've written and for the great thought that you're putting into this. i leave you with another line from the op-ed that the two of you have written. a compact between the center right and the left may seem like an unnatural fit. but in the battle for the soul of the american political system, we cannot retreat to our ideological corners. miles taylor is a former dhs chief of staff under donald trump's government. former new jersey governor, christine todd whitman, thank you for watching "velshi." you can catch me every saturday and sunday from 8:00 to 10:00 a.m. eastern. "the sunday show" with my friend jonathan capehart begins right

now. it's october 17th. i'm jonathan capehart. this is "the sunday show." this sunday, we begin with the breaking news out of haiti. 17 american missionaries and their families were kidnapped by an armed gang while returning from visiting an orphanage according to "the new york times" and the haitian officials. we'll donate bring you the latest as we monitor the situation. former president bill clinton is expected to be released from the president today after being admitted this week due to a urological infection. and more breaking news overnight. the international alliance of theatrical stage employees who represents 60,000 members who keep hollywood running as negotiated a new contract and averted the biggest labor strike in hollywood since world war ii. but that hollywood ending