i'm yasmin vossoughian. we're following news on several fronts this hour. we got a lot to cover. breaking news out of louisiana. a deadly shooting at a college campus during homecoming events there. a desperate search for a group of americans kidnapped in haiti, a group that included men, women and children as well. we're 48 hours away from a key vote on a move to hold steve bannon in criminal contempt for defying a january 6th committee subpoena. plus, new fallout today from joe manchin's latest demands about the reconciliation bill. also this hour, we are going to focus on the gabby petito case as the search for her boyfriend, brian laundrie, is continuing. i'm going to look at why the cause of death in this case is so important. one columnist's powerful perspective on why the fact that gabby was strangled matters so

much. that conversation is coming up and you don't want to miss it. we're going to begin with the breaking news we're following in louisiana. a deadly shooting at grambling state university of. richard lui is following this for us. we're hearing more details as this thing develops. bring us up to date on what we know so far. >> yasmin, this breaking story coming in this afternoon. at the moment win person is dead, several others wounded. this shooting took place in the early morning hours today on a sunday as the university was celebrating its homecoming weekend. i want to start with what a student captured in the aftermath and posted on facebook. take a look at this. all right. that video being shown live. police and paramedics racing to the scene.

this happened in a popular area called the quad. a student captured scenes of several victims surrounded by friends along the way. in a statement, the school said at the time of the incident, a homecoming event was under way in the dining center. all people inside the dining hall for shelter in some. the president of the school says why would someone come to the campus of the dear cold grambling and shoot innocent people? there was security at the event. yasmin, i want to show you a little bit more video. watch this. at one point you see first responders just trying to work on the wounded frantically. again, that happening as that student captured the video. several victims were confirmed

at the scene. at least one of the students was taken to a hospital for a nonlife-threatening injury. one student was taken to the hospital as well for life-threatening injuries. the person killed wasn't a student on the school. the gunman is still on the loose. no arrests were made. the campus, yasmin, was cleared for normal operations, but homecoming events scheduled for today were canceled. and then tomorrow, monday, classes were canceled as well. this is the second shooting in just a week's time at the university. yasmin, we're just hours into this, so we'll update you later as we get more details confirmed. >> tragic situation there at grambling state university. thank you, richard, for being on it. we'll check back with you if things develop. i want to get more breaking news we're following out of haiti. staff at christian aid ministries are requesting urgent prayers for the 16 american and one canadian missionary who was kidnapped by a gang in the

nation's capital, port-au-prince, five of whom the organization said are children. violence surged in port-au-prince since, of course, the assassination of the president back in july. since then the situation has been untenable in haiti on the ground, and it has gotten worse by the day. with that, i want to bring in gary pierre, founder of the the "haitian times." it is an incredibly tragic situation to think about what has taken place in haiti so far. i want to read for folks something that you read. the gang situation in haiti is out of control. kidnappings have continued unabated and the situation is untenable. considering the most recent news we're hearing of this kidnapping, what do you make of it and are you at all surprised? >> no, i'm not surprised. what i'm not surprised about is that they targeted a group of

americans because we have been told that everyone was a target except americans. and so now, i guess, the gangs have shifted their tactics and they are going after everyone. that was the only group of people who had some sort of like reprieve from this violence. it's happening every day. i mean, right now it's common for us in the diaspora to be talking about friends who were kidnapped and a lot of the ransom money comes from here. and this is a problem. on top of it, we have to find money to fund -- to get our friends and relatives out of the grip of the kidnappers. >> how did it get so bad so quickly, gary? and is there a certain group or gang as you're putting it that you feel as if is more

responsible for these type of kidnapings than others? >> it got so bad because when you assassinate a president, there's no authority running the country. you have a very weak prime minister and there's a power vacuum. when you have a power vacuum, the gangs, you know, they stepped up to fill that void and they have been doing it. you asked the question of the gangs, right now these gangs have morphed into a local thief dom. it's not just the points of entry in port-au-prince, but the two main gangs, they have been tied to this kidnapping. and then you have g 9 and you have a bunch of others, all kinds of unsavory characters running the country.

with all due respect, the country is missing in action. traditional the president or prime minister will go and lay a wreath and -- think about the moment what this means. they couldn't do that. and there were reports that although they paid the gangs to allow passage, but at the end of the day, the prime minister couldn't do that. so this is where we are right now. i mean, we've been talking about this since july, and then it keeps getting worse and worse. >> yeah. that's exactly what it seems likes, especially as we're watching the immigration crisis unfold, of course, with so many haitians wanting to leave that country, because as you put it so eloquently, the situation is

untenable. we'll stay on this story. gary, we appreciate you jumping on for us. please stay safe there. we're also following breaking news this hour out of southern california. just a short time ago, former president bill clinton actually walked out of the uc irvin medical center under his own power. his wife, hillary, by his side. he thanked the team of doctors who helped him before getting into an suv. the 42nd president was admitted on tuesday with a urological infection that spread to his bloodstream. the doctor overseeing his care said that his fever and white blood count was normalized and he's normal enough to return to new york and added that mr. clinton will continue his antibiotic treatment at home as well. and now we're going to move to washington, d.c., to capitol hill specifically where in just a little more than 48 hours, the january 6th committee is going to be holding a vote to hold former trump adviser steve bannon in criminal contempt for defying a subpoena. so if, in fact, the vote passes,

then the matter heads to the house for a full vote. and then it is referred to the u.s. attorney for possible prosecution and of course maybe jail time. nbc's julie sorkin is joining us. welcome you to both. good afternoon. julie, let me start with you gives the 30,000 foot above how long this process could actually take. >> yasmin, bottom line, democrats are pleased the committee is taking this step and many of the democrats i spoke to this weekend have been involved in trying to conduct oversight of the trump white house for years and getting this defiance from trump aides and allies obstruction of congress. they are pleased the committee is doing this no matter how long it takes in the end. we know bannon defied the subpoena, missing his deposition on thursday. the committee is moving forward

with this key vote on tuesday showing the pace they're taking to get this going. we heard from one of two republicans who sit on the house select committee earlier today laying out the process and why he believes the committee should move forward on criminal referral for bannon. let's watch that. >> this potential criminal contempt referral or will be criminal contempt referral for steve bannon is the first shot over the bow. it's very real. but don't think you're going to be able to just kind of walk away and we're going to forget about you, we're not. this is about the ten-year argument. what are our kids going to think when they read the history books? i believed that truth needs to win out. >> reporter: so despite the fact that this could take months if not years if the department of justice decides to prosecute this against bannon, you heard adam kinzinger there saying we need to do this regardless. we need to show that those who consider defying a subpoena, we need to send a message this is

what could happen. we will pursue this criminal referral of bannon and you could be next if you choose to defy our authority. >> barbara mcquade, seems like so much of these processes in washington and in congress have to do with sending a message versus actual action. when it comes to holding steve bannon in criminal contempt as we watch the vote come tuesday evening, what would happen next? we heard from julie this thing could make months if not years. >> i think that's right, yasmin. in fact, i think the fact that they are proceeding down the criminal path says to me that they're less interested in compliance because there might be better strategies for compliance and more interested in protecting theinstitutional mission of congress. that might be the best call. we've seen the trump administration constantly stall and run out the clock. now we have steve bannon defying a subpoena and not showing up for his deposition because his conversations with president

trump are privileged, he says. that fails for at least three reasons. number one, he was not an advisory of the president. and so his political advice to the president is not privileged by definition. number two, even if it is, joe biden, the current president, gets to decide whether the privilege should yield and he says it should. despite those things, he has has to show up and assert privilege on a question by question basis. i think it is an important step to pursue charges criminally, even if it takes a long time as a deterrent to all the other people who might try to do the same thing. >> let's unpack that a little bit. give me the alternate strategies you mentioned to actually want to gain information if, in fact, that was their ultimate goal. >> so using -- criminal contempt is punishment for someone who devise defies a subpoena. but civil contempt is an opportunity to coerce someone to cooperate. so you can file a civil suit.

a judge would say you must obey this subpoena, and now if they defy the court's order, the court can hold that person in contempt, including jailing them until they do. you may recall susan mcdougal during the clinton investigation being jailed because she refused to testify in response to a grand jury subpoena. that's the same strategy you would use there. and so the person would have to stay in jail. steve bannon said if a judge orders me to testify, i will do so. congress has the authority you to testify, and they have done so. but if he wants to play that game, you can go down that road and use that civil order to get him to either go to jail quickly or testify. so that's why i think that might be more effective in getting his testimony. >> we're going to dive deeper into this in the 4:00 p.m. hour, but for now, thank you both. great to see you. appreciate it. still ahead, everybody, rewriting history. donald trump's dangerous attempts to turn ashley bathtub into a martyr of the january 6th

insurrection and why that matters. but first, the disturbing disappearance and death of gabby petito highlighting what experts say is a red flag of domestic violence. why our next guest says petito and many women like her were failed by both law enforcement and their own communities. we'll be right back. knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. [ nautical horn blows ] i mean just because you look like someone else doesn't mean you eat off the floor, or yell at the vacuum, or need flea medication. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ with relapsing forms of ms... there's a lot to deal with. not just unpredictable relapses. all these other things too. it can all add up.

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picture of what happened to gabby petito. after a coroner said she was killed by strangulation, saying it was one of many deaths of people who are involved in domestic violence. the manhunt for her fiancé, brian laundrie, who has not been charged with her death but is listed as a person of interest in the case, that's still under way. and while we don't know whether gabby's death was a result of domestic abuse, it's important to clarify she was strangled as opposed to choked for both technical and moral reasons. it keeps the focus on the perpetrator. someone can choke accidentally. strangulation is violent, intentional, and deeply gendered as well. it is something half of all domestic violence victims have experienced at some point during the course of their abuse, often repeatedly. because it is such a huge indicator of escalating violence in an abusive relationship, and

so physically dangerous for the victim. it is usually the final escalation an abuser makes before killing them. in fact, according to a study from the alliance for hope, once a woman has been strangled by her male partner, the likelihood he will do so again rises tenfold. i want to bring in miry dongan. important topic. we i appreciate it as always. i want to read a little bit from your piece about how the strangulation is formulaic. though petito's murder is a unique tragedy, in many ways it is grimly formulaic. she appears to have suffered escalating abuse by a partner who isolated her from friends and family and exerted increasing control over her

activities. that it turned homicidal was predictable and preventable and may have been the saddest part of this whole thing that it was predictable and preventable for those around her if their eyes, in fact, were open. talk me through significance of strangulation being the cause of death here. >> thank you for having me, yasmin. the thing about strangulation is it occurs overwhelmingly in domestic violence scenarios. we see strangulation used as part of military and martial arts training, but in the civilian interpersonal violence. it is overwhelmingly a technique that is used by men against women, and in most cases, the victim and the perpetrator are current or former romantic partners. and what we see is really symbolically significant about strangulation is that it is a very intimate and very intense form of control.

it is usually something an abuser resorts to after a period of prolonged escalation, of control, domination, and violence. and it makes his control over his victim extend to something as vital and intimate as her next breath. >> he also talk about how in cases of strangulation it's often the attacker that has scratches on their face and wounds as well. you actually point to the body cam footage we've been showing as evidence of that. this was body cam footage that was taken just a few weeks before gabby petito disappeared in which she was kind of seen as an emotional person at the time, as if maybe she was having some sort of emotional break, anxious break. it seemed like he, laundrie, her

boyfriend, was the calm one amidst all this, the controlled person in this scenario. what does it say about officers being trained or not trained enough to deal with domestic abuse cases like this one possibly may have been? >> well, as you mentioned, in a strangulation scenario, the physical injury is not often very visible. there might be some bruises on the neck. burst cap larrys or redness, often a strangulation victim will have red spots in the whites of her eyes. but often the injury imposed by strangulation on the victim's body is internal. so she might have difficulty speaking or swallowing following a strangulation incident, but there might not be a very visible dark bruise that can be

easily photographed. you talk about the response that gabby and brian had in that body cam video. what we see in strangulation victims is often when they are confronted by police, they are not particularly coherent. they might not tell a very consistent version of events both because strangulation can cause traumatic brain injuries that damage her physical capacity to recall what happened to her and it's an emotionally and psychologically damaging experience to respond in ways that might make them seem less credible in that law enforcement setting. >> all right. moira, thank you so much for joining us on this topic as we await more news on the development of this case and the search for brian laundrie and the incredibly tragic death of gabby petito. thank you.

great to see you. still ahead, shipping signs. what the major backup at ports across the nation could tell us about deeper infrastructure issues. plus this. what led to this terrifying crash in oklahoma, and how the driver and his dog escaped. we'll be right back. your new pharmacy is here. to help you compare prices, and save on your medication. amazon prime members get select meds as low as $1 a month. who knew it could be this easy? your new pharmacy is amazon pharmacy. regina approaches the all-electric cadillac lyriq. it's a sunny day. nah, a stormy day. classical music plays. um uh, brass band, new orleans. ♪ ♪ she drives hands free... along the coast. make it palm springs.

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welcome back. it appears a strike has been avoided in hollywood to keep shows and movies in production. a union representing camera technicians, makeup artists, costume designers, and more struck up a tentative deal with movie producers. the deal comes less than a day before a strike deadline which would have essentially shut down the entertainment industry. the tentative agreement must be ratified by those members. the crisis in the supply

chain isn't going away, and the longer the backups at the ports last, the deeper the long-term economic damage is to this country. ports are ramping up towards 24/7 operations. scott cohn is in long beach. talk us through exactly how they plan to rightside this situation. >> well, it's going to be a long process. we talked about this some yesterday, yasmin, about this idea of 24/7. that is a process in and of itself. it's not a matter of flipping a switch. and basically officials are saying that we could be looking well into next year before they clear the backlogs. and the economic damage from that could go on, even beyond that into 2023. it makes everything more expensive. to illustrate, this container ship behind me, this is a ship we watched pull in before sunrise yesterday morning.

it left china to come to long beach on september 21st. so normally it's a two-week journey. it took about twice that amount. that becomes really expensive. then you multiply that by 60 vessels that are still offshore because of increased demand and it's putting a lot of stress on a system that really was set up with almost no margin for error. >> because of it's a multiparty problem. it's not just the truckers or the rail lines. it's not just the union works on the docks. it's not just the shippers or terminals. it's everyone. if they don't all come together because they're so interrelated, the solution can't work. this risk of supply chains being so finely tuned and calibrated is something we didn't take into account that any disruption leads to outsized reactions by the supply chain. >> reporter: and it really is

yet another effect of the pandemic we didn't think about initially. but the economic impact here is severe and officials are already talking about maybe we need to build some more cushion into the system. but that too is expensive. yet another reason that inflation is something economists are worried about going into next year. yasmin? >> i got to tell you, you feel it everywhere. you walk into your local grocery store or pharmacy looking for a roll of toilet player, cleaning supplies, and the shelves are somewhat empty and they're not getting restocked as quickly as we're used to. scott cohn, thank you for that. as always, appreciated. i want to go to that terrifying scene in oklahoma. before we show you it, we do want to let you know, amazingly, everyone involved is okay. watch this.

gosh. okay, so four people are recovering from injuries after that collision between an amtrak train and a semi truck stopped on the tracks. the local sheriff says a truck got stuck on the tracks because of its weight. the driver and his dogs were able to escape. four people on the train were injured. what an incredibly tragic scene there and thankfully everyone is okay and able to exit the vehicle before the crash actually happened. so the question of covid booster shots is engrained. during the first week of october, the cdc reported more americans received booster shots than initial covid doses during that same time. that trend is unlikely to slow down as mix and match vaccine options become available. my colleague, alex witt, spoke to dr. anthony fauci about this earlier today.

>> there's this question that you mentioned of the mix and match. i hope there will be a degree of flexibility for people, particularly among the j&j recipients. all of that is going to be sorted out both from a regulatory standpoint and when the cdc when their advisory committee look at the data, they'll make recommendations for what the public should do. >> let's bring in nbc's steve row know who's in new york city for us covering this booster shot story. steve, talk me through this. you got health officials nationwide reporting this increased traffic at vaccination sites. wondering if that's the case in new york as well from what you're seeing. >> reporter: yeah. we're outside of the vaccination site at the american museum of natural history. more people coming in to get the booster. a lot of people coming here just to ask about the booster who may not actually be eligible yet. but a lot more people will likely soon be able to do that as the fda advisory panel has

signed off on those booster shots for people who received the johnson & johnson version of the vaccine. some 15 million americans who got that could soon be eligible. the panel suggesting anyone 18 and older who got the j&j vaccine as recently as two months ago could get that booster shot if the fda gives it full approval, which it usually does following the recommendations of the advisory panel as it has thus far. new york city health officials say they're ready for that rush of people. >> i think the take-home mission for new york city residents is new york city is at the ready. we have the supply. we have the infrastructure. we have enough supply for the moderna and the johnson & johnson vaccine. when we receive the good news to do the rollout and make it available. >> reporter: the fda's full approval is expected to happen in just the next few days. yasmin? >> steven romo for us.

thank you. still ahead, the making of a martyr. the message trump is sending with his reframing of an insurrectionist fatally shot on one of the capitol's darkest days. coming up tonight on the mehdi hasan show, activist could you mail naj yanny talks about his block burst. finally a south asian superhero in the mcu. we'll talk racism and immigration and diversity in hollywood. join us tonight from 8:00 p.m. eastern. hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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highlighting the death of ashli babbitt falgtly shot. for months, most leading republicans, including trump, expressed little interest in babbitt. but in june, trump declared that he saw babbitt as an ally who was on his, quote, side. a month later he said the rioter was innocent. a month after that, he accused the officer who shot her of murder. take a listener to this evolution for yourself, ending with the former president's birth message video to babbitt's family last week. >> who shot ashli babbitt? who shot ashli babbitt? if that were on the other side, the other who did the shooting would be strung up and hung. >> who was the person that shot an innocent, wonderful, incredible woman? >> they killed ashli babbitt and there was no reason to kill ashli babbitt. no reason whatsoever. >> today would have been her

birthday. happy birthday, ashli. we must all demand justice for ashli and her family. >> steve benen joining me now. also a producer for the rachel maddow show and author of the book "imposters." when i was covering the justice for j6 rally on the ground in washington, d.c., i heard this exact same thing that we just played from the former president about who ashli babbitt was, the fact that they saw her as hero. talk to me about how dangerous this is tolerance paint her as this kind of martyr without recognizing and acknowledging why it was that she was shot and what it was she was trying to do. >> this is fundamental question. when we celebrate those who are responsible for political

violence, inevitably we encourage more political violence. that is the danger of trump's rhetoric and making ashli babbitt a martyr. she was responsible for participating in this deadly riot, and it's difficult to justify the celebration of those who are responsible for that riot. it's worth noting that the shooting of alicia babbitt had been investigated by the u.s. capitol police and the justice department. both of them cleared the officer who fired the shot. there are witnesses, including very conservative house republican who was a witness of the event and said that the officer was justified in his use of violence. so with that in mind, i think it's only fair to say that given what we know, given the context, given the details, the idea of making ashli babbitt a martyr is a mistake. >> it seems as if as we gained more time since january 6th, as more time has passed, the events

on the capitol steps have been sanitized to to a certain extent, right, by republicans who stood on the senate floor that very evening and denounced the actions of the rioters, of the insurrectionists, denounced the actions of the former president. but now all of that it seems has been wiped clean, right? talk to me about that along with how the former president has played into that. >> i think there's been an evolution that's unfolded over the course of 2021. initially all republicans, including donald trump, said largely the right things, which was they were denouncing the violence and those responsible for any political violence. and that was a constructive step. we can debate whether or not they were sincere in that rhetoric, but at least the rhetoric was there. that's the first step. step two was to say that they were upset with the riot but maybe democrats were responsible. maybe antifa was responsible. maybe it was just a sham.

step three was a little bit more dangerous still. they said that maybe it wasn't such a big deal after all. maybe the media is exaggerating. maybe they were just normal tourists who happened to be on capitol hill that day. that was a concerning step three. now we're onto step four, dallas we have people like donald trump and others who are actually celebrating those who were responsible for the political violence, which is the most dangerous step of all because that, of course, is what encourages steps like january 6th. we hope, of course, that there are more people in the republican party and conservative politics who will speak up and say, no, wait, we're not comfortable with this and have to continue to denounce it. >> they're not doing that. >> right, they're not doing that at all, it's the opposite. that's what's so alarming right now. >> and i think one of the biggest worries is come 2024, if, in fact, the former president decides to jump back in, he's going to paint january 6th as heroes, right, going

after what they believe was right, people being welcomed into the capitol, doors being held open for these individuals who just wanted to be in the building that they built, the taxes they pay for, to paint it like this versus what actually happened when you had people storming capitol building, lives lost, the lives of members of congress very much threatened, the life of the vice president very much threatened. that is a worry come 2024. and then what may come after. >> right. just this week we saw there was an event in virginia, in richmond, virginia, for the republican ticket. it was odd for a variety of reasons. they started the event by pledging allegiance to a flag from the january 6th attack, as if it was a thing to be honored in a sacred kind of way. this was very unsettling behavior. this is not something they look at january 6th as something to forget. it's bad enough to downplay january 6th, but to actually hold it up as something they're

proud of and think is worthy of respect, worthy of literal pledging allegiance to, this is an unsettling and dangerous road that they're on and we can only hope for all of our sakes they take a detour from this road very quickly. >> steve benen, thank you. appreciate it. coming up, abortion access in the spotlight. how the restrictive law in texas and those like it disproportionately impact women of color. we'll be right back. and the grass is green ♪ ♪ i'm way ahead of schedule with my trusty team ♪ ♪ there's heather on the hedges ♪ ♪ and kenny on the koi ♪ ♪ and your truck's been demolished by the peterson boy ♪ ♪ yes -- ♪ wait, what was that? timber... [ sighs heavily ] when owning a small business gets real, progressive helps protect what you've built with affordable coverage. with relapsing forms of ms...

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welcome back. the justice department is heading back to the supreme court over texas's restrictive abortion law. while the legal battle plays out, it is estimated that more than 1,000 women a week in texas have to seek an abortion elsewhere, leaving clinics in neighborhoods states overwhelmed. earlier this week i went to louisiana and spoke with women who traveled into the state seeking to terminate a pregnancy. their stories stuck with me. listen to this. >> it costs a lot more money because i had to drive, gas, and food. and then i have to come back because they are similar to texas, you can't do the procedure in the same day. you have to wait 24 hours. i had two kids back to back, and then, like, the post-partum hit me hard with my last two kids. and i kind of really just got

out of it i'd say six months ago. and then i can't afford birth control, so i try to prevent it. when you try, it doesn't always work out. so it's hard to deal with toddlers especially when i'm tired and i have to work and clean the house. it's a lot and i feel like people just don't understand that. it's not like i want to. because i now want more kids, it's just not -- sometimes it's just the timing. >> i'm in louisiana. i don't know if somebody going to follow me to the hotel and be, like, you know, you wrong for this. you know? it can be -- >> scary. >> scary, yeah. like i said, i'm by myself. >> texas had more than two dozen abortion clinics operating before the sb 8 law took effect. now as the battle between the justice department and the state's conservative fifth circuit court heats up, medical

workers say many will be forced to close. trymaine lee spoke with martha sad ler with the well women's health clinic in fort worth about her final hours on the job before sb 8 became reality. >> with a very small staff, but a very mighty staff and that doctor and myself, we were able to complete 67 procedures that day. and actually see over 50 follow-up appointments of patients who had previously done the medication abortion but wanted to come in and ensure the abortion had worked but they were going to have to continue with those pregnancies. and so we saw our last patient that day at 11:56 p.m. was when the doctor walked out of the room with four minutes to spare. and there was a moment with the staff where we were really rejoiceful. there were tears. we couldn't believe it. we realized we had -- you know, there was that moment. and that lasted maybe five minutes and -- i mean, really

quickly at 12:00 we realized, oh, my god, it's a new day, and tomorrow is going to be totally different than today. >> joining me is the host of that podcast, nbc's trymaine lee, host of "into america." great to see you, my friend. this was a special episode. i had done some reporting about this over the last week or so, and seeing first hand what sb 8 is doing to so many women, specifically black and brown women. i want to brill down on that, how it seems like sb 8 is disproportionately acting the black and brown community and the women in it. and you talked about this with marva. let's play that and then talk on the other side. >> this is why it affects us as black women so much because that woman who doesn't know if she's going to have a job when she returns is the woman that's working that minimum wage 9:00

to 5:00 job. that is us, right? you're absolutely right. those who have means, this won't affect them at all because they'll be able to get the nanny to keep the babies and get on the plane and fly over to the next couple of states over if need be. but for the woman who is barely making it where the odds have already been stacked against us, where we don't have that infrastructure of protection and take care of us from the start, this is impossible. so absolutely this will definitely affect women of color and the low-income community much more than it will affect those outside of that. >> trymaine, talk to me about the long-term effects of sb 8 for the women of texas, black and brown women of texas, especially if the doj challenge fails. >> yasmin, first of all, thank you so much for having me. obviously you've done such great work on this topic. here with martha i had a

conversation with, you realize the women who are socially marginalized will bear the full brunt of sb 8 on their shoulders. when there are women who have resources, they have a network of support, they're going to find access to health care they need. but poor women of color, black and brown women in particular in texas with the nature of the law the way it's set up, there's a lot of concern about what happens to these women. she told me a story about one woman who found out she was pregnant weeks before she was set to serve a five-year prison temperature because of sb 8, she couldn't get her procedure. now she's going to have to go into prison with an unwanted pregnancy. >> so true. the women i spoke to, some of which i played, these are women that have children at home, the fathers of those children are not in their lives, they're single moms, they don't have a lot of community support, they're living paycheck to paycheck just trying to feed their kids, trying to do everything they can.

and then they have to come to louisiana, right, to get the support they need, to seek out abortion services, to have to leave their kids at home, to take time off work, time they don't necessarily have because they need they that money to feed their children. it's really an untenable situation in the state of texas. you spoke to michelle goodwin a law professor at uv -- uv irvine. >> we have all those issues that women who can't have access, but fugitive slave act allowed white citizens to track down and surveil black people for a bounty. the enforcement mechanism with sb 8 is, anyone who gets wind of anyone who may have aid or abetted anyone ending a pregnancy can sue that individual for a minimum of

$10,000, essentially what professor godwin described as a bounty. you already have baby health issues, the economic health issues, and then there's real concern for the safety of women and those who are aiding in them ending their pregnancy with a $10,000 bounty on their heads, free rein to surveil and track. how would you know who had an abortion unless you're tracking them. >> and these women are scared. trymaine lee, thank you, as always, for your great reporting and your incredible podcast for diving into the the subjects the best way possible. great to see you, by the way. make sure to turn into "into america" podcast and new episodes drop every thursday. make sure you listen. coming up in our next hour, democrats make the full court press in virginia as governors race heats up. stacey abrams set to stake the stage for terry mcauliffe. why this race is widely seen as a bellwether for the midterms. plus, no more kanye west.

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