be in such short supply these days. >> certainly, he was haunted by what happened at the run-up to the iraq war, but his legacy is more than that. he is a american success story. a hero who lived his life with real dignity and a role model for so many. mika? >> that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. hi there. i'm stephanie ruhle, live in our nation's capital. it is tuesday, october 19th. here are all the facts you need to know this morning. here in d.c., the pressure is growing among democrats to get president biden's agenda passed. holdouts like senators joe manchin and kyrsten sinema are talking with the presiden and progressive democrats. the big question is, talk, talk, talk, are they closer to getting a deal done? the fight over abortion rights in texas taking another major turn.

the justice department asking the supreme court to block the restrictive law as the court signals it could hear arguments over the controversial ban faster than expected. plus, the latest on the race to rescue 17 american missionaries kidnapped in haiti. a ransom demand. pushback over vaccines. cops from coast to coast skipping vaccine requirements despite more police officers dying from covid over the course of the pandemic than any other cause combined. and one private school in the state of florida asking students to wait 30 days after receiving a vaccine shot to come back to school, citing concerns over the widely debunked conspiracy theory of vaccine shedding. we have what you need the know. we'll start with the january 6th committee finally moving ahead with a vote tonight to hold steve bannon in criminal contempt for defying his

subpoena. it comes as former president trump turns to one of his favorite tactics to try to hold things up. he's filed his own lawsuit, suing the committee and the national archives. just a few minutes ago, the white house responded to the suit saying, quote, the former president's actions represented a unique and existential threat to our democracy that cannot be swept under the rug. let's discuss. joyce vance joins us. former u.s. attorney and professor at the university of alabama law school. also, pulitzer prize-winning reporter who dominates covering the justice department for "the new york times." and all-time favorite jarrett -- garrett haake, senior capitol hill reporter, here with me. >> this is going to be a process. the house will vote hopefully later this week. they'll find bannon in criminal contempt. then it goes to the justice department, who still have to decide whether this is the kind of thing they want to pursue criminally.

democrats in the house are arguing that they have to do this not just for their investigation, but to prove that congressional subpoenas even mean anything. listen to this that adam schiff told me last night. >> i think it is enormously important, and i view this as an early test of our democracy, whether it is recovering. an early test of whether in the new administration no one will be above the law. i can tell you that if you or i or anyone else refused to show up when they were subpoenaed, they would be arrested. it should be no different for steve bannon. >> we went through this with the last two impeachments with then president trump and his staffers, his allies, willing to wait out the clock on congress. they could potentially do the same thing here if republicans take control after the midterms next year. so this is a race to get this testimony in now. >> it should be no different, but it is, joyce. if steve bannon can defy this subpoena and get away with it, why would anyone ever comply? >> i think that's exactly the

point that congressman schiff was making last night, stephanie. we've come to this final low bottom, where there has to be a method of enforcing this subpoena and of showing that trump and the folks around trump are obligated to follow the law. just like everyone else. if this congressional subpoena isn't enforced, then the mechanism for congress to engage in oversight is irrevicablely broken. if it is the best path forward in the judgment of congress for enforcing their subpoena, doj needs to step up and engage in the process. >> so at this point, all of the trump loyalists the committee wants to speak to, are they just going to sit back and see how things shake out with bannon before deciding their next move? >> absolutely. i think that would be the best course of action for them, the most logical thing to do. they're going to want to see whether or not the justice department decides to enforce the subpoena. the other thing is even if the justice department were to enforce the subpoena, and let's

go through what that means. the committee votes. justice department receives the information, and then the u.s. attorney in washington, d.c., in conjunction with the highest levels of leadership at the justice department here in washington, they take the information to a grand jury. i think there's a lot of confusion. grand juries are part of the court decision, not controlled by the justice department. it is up to them to decide whether or not the subpoena should be enforced and there should be criminal charges. now, should that happen, that'd send a strong message to the people sitting back and waiting. the justice department has all sorts of reasons to carefully scrutinize this. joyce's point is taken, we have reached a bottom. yet the justice department doesn't want to make decisions that can affect future administrations. it is thinking about legacy issues with the executive branch. >> trump's latest move, one of

his favorites, he is now suing the committee and the national archives. in the lawsuit, it says, quote, the committee's requests are unprecedented in their breadth and scope and are untethered from any legitimate legislative purpose. what's your reaction to that? because what happened january 6th is also unprecedented. >> trump makes three really pate -- weak arguments. he argues it is a witch hunt. congress doesn't is a legitimate purpose in doing the work of the january 6th committee. he argues this testimony should be shielded by executive privilege. to this point, all of those arguments fall in the face of the need to get to the bottom of what happened on january 6th. in many ways, trump is fortunate that biden chose to waive executive privilege. otherwise, there would be an ugly argument about whether this sort of information he's trying to withhold can be unshielded

pause it's part of what lawyers call the crime fraud exception. whether, in fact, the president, the former president, is trying to cover up crimes. that's what is at bottom here. why would a president want to shield this information from public view? we've undergone an insurrection, an attack on the capitol. the only people who would want to withhold information about what led to that would be people who were concerned about complicity. the more that trump argues and files lawsuits here, even if he means to delay, the more he discloses his ultimate motives. >> yes. he might disclose motive, but it doesn't mean we'll see anything. we didn't see his taxes for a long time, and, guess what, we haven't seen it. makes him look guilty and like he is dishonest, but he is winning. garrett, trump's goal here appears to be, i'm going to hold this up like everything else. is it going to work? >> well, members of the committee say they expected

this. they had no reason to believe that many of the people they subpoenaed would cooperate on their own. but they said they're still doing interviews with folks who agreed to testify voluntarily, including doj officials who are intimately involved in discussions at the white house in the lead-up to january 6th. there are many different paths for this committee to continue to go down while their fight this legal fight. >> a fight it is. garrett, katie, joyce, thank you so much. actually, joyce, stay with me. i want to stay on the law and turn to the abortion fight down in texas. the justice department is now all calling on the supreme court to step in immediately and block the state law that bans most abortions. pete williams joins us, our justice correspondent. joyce, you are still here. pete, talk us through this brief that was filed monday. >> second challenge to the texas law to reach the supreme court. the court turned away the first one brought by abortion providers in texas. the justice department says this lawsuit is different. it raises different issues and

is much stronger because the government has powers private parties don't. the court turned away the first in september by a vote of 5-4. the court said it was too complicated. there were questions about whether the court had the authority to hear it, given the unusual structure of sb-8. in the latest challenge, the biden administration said texas can't take away the right of access to abortion without providing a means to defend that right in court. unlike every other abortion restriction that's ever come before the supreme court, sb-8 does not depend on state officials to enforce it. anybody can file a public lawsuit against an abortion provider and seek at least $10,000. for that reason, the law stopped nearly all abortions in the state. the justice department says the state has essentially nullified the supreme court's past decisions on abortion rights and has no legal power to do that. i think that's why it is appealing to the supreme court, saying don't let the states ignore what you do. >> joyce, how strong is the government's case here?

>> government's case here is very strong. to pete's point, the justice department can do something the private litigants in the earlier case couldn't do. doj has the ability to sue the state of texas directly. that's what they've done in this lawsuit. that i-- they're telling the supreme court, you can't let a state violate a law, roe versus wade. you can't let the state of texas circumvent that with tricks saying the state of texas is preventing anyone from going to court to protect their rights. doj says because we have the unique ability to sue the state of texas, you need to hear our lawsuit. what doj is asking the court to do is to restore the block that would keep sb-8, texas' abortion law, stay ingfrom staying in ef during litigation. interesting issue is whether the

supreme court will view this petition by doj as an effort to join this case, the texas case, with the mississippi case the court will hear in december and decide both of those matters together. >> pete, there's also a separate appeal to the supreme court, and this one is coming from pro-choice groups. can you explain? >> that was the first lawsuit that was filed here. it's the one that the supreme court declined to issue the stay on in september that allowed sb-8 to go into effect. that's sitting on the court's doorstep. now the justice department says it, too, should take this case that the government has filed. now, the normal way things work is you go into this court. if you lose there, go to the court of appeals. once the court of appeals rules, you can go to the supreme court. what the justice department is saying, and what the other group is saying too, is just leapfrog over the fifth circuit court of apeas. -- appeals. we know it'll get there anyway. let's get on with it and decide this issue this term. it is a different question.

it is not really the issue of whether abortion is constitutional. the issue in this case is, can a state structure a law like this that takes enforcement away from state officials and essentially turns private individuals into bounty hunters? >> wow. all right. we are going to be watching this closely. pete williams, joyce vance, thank you both so much. still ahead, donald trump just faced some tough questions at a video tape deposition yesterday. i'll be speaking to one of the lawyers in the room about what the former president said when under oath. first, kidnapped in haiti. the fbi on the ground trying to help rescue 17 missionaries, including children. as the kidnappers are demanding millions of dollars for their release, what we know about the efforts to get them freed. that's next. ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark.

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developing this morning, the violent gang in haiti now reportedly demanding a major ransom for a group of 17

kidnapped american missionaries, including children. i want to go to sam brock in miami. sam, what in the world is going on? >> reporter: stephanie, we're still right now trying to independently verify those details, but the haitian justice minister tells the "wall street journal," they ask for $1 million, $17 million total. he says it is unlikely they'd say that sum. we're learn more information about the reported ages of the kids being held hostage. overnight, a major request for ransom. the "wall street journal" citing haiti's justice minister saying the kidnappers want $1 million a person, $17 million total. the justice minister also telling the "journal" the kidnapped include an 8 month old baby, 3, 6, and 15 years old. the state department dispatched teams to haiti with white house officials keeping any potential plans to free the 17 people,

nearly all americans, under wraps. >> the president has been briefed and is receiving regular updates. due to operational considerations, we're not going to go into too much detail. >> reporter: the kidnapping by a notorious gang putting a sharper focus on haiti, ravaged by extreme poverty, political instability, and natural disasters. protecters in miami calling on the u.s. to stop deporting haitians. the u.s. pledged money and training for haitian police forces. by one study, kidnappings have jumped 300% in three months. dr. richard, who runs a hospital in port-au-prince, telling us by phone he has to negotiate with gangs to get oxygen for covid patients inside. >> sometimes we have hair-raising days, facing shortages. you can imagine, if we have 65 patients, 40 will be dead in an hour the minute we don't have oxygen. that's how bad they are. >> reporter: from police to

school children, no one in the country is off limits. >> every single day, at least 20 to 25 people in haiti. >> reporter: every single day? >> every day. they kidnap you. your family doesn't have no money. what they do? they kill you. >> reporter: the office of the haitian justice minister so far has not responded to our request for comment. steph, complicating some of this information, our grand rapids affiliate reporting a pastor is reporting one of the family members that belongs to his church community, a parent and four kids, one under the age of 10. we heard from the justice minister in the "wall street journal" report, there is an 8 month old baby, a 3-year-old, 6-year-old, and a 14-year-old and 15-year-old. those two things cannot be true simultaneously. one other element to all of this we're trying to work out. steph, back to you. >> sam brock, thank you. coming up next, the white house ramps up its urgency to pass president biden's human

infrastructure bill. sinema, manchin, sanders, jayapal all in deep talks. but talk is cheap. we any closer to getting a deal? it's expensive. what we know on the other side of the break. de of the break he is coming for me... but i'm coming for him. happy halloween michael. you have always loved vicks vapors. and now you'll really love new vicks' vapostick. it goes on clear and dries quickly. no mess. just the soothing vicks' vapor for the whole family. introducing new vicks vapostick. ♪ i'm a reporter for the new york times. if you just hold it like this. yeah. ♪

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this morning, the white house putting more pressure on lawmakers to reach a deal on the human infrastructure bill. the president is set to meet separately at the white house today with moderates and progressives later this afternoon, while senator kyrsten sinema is also headed to the white house. it comes after senator joe manchin had a face-to-face meeting with house progressive caucus chair pramila jayapal. and this photo-op with senator sanders. all of these meetings, all these photos, i want to know what any of this actually means when it comes to getting something passed. i want to go straight to the one and only kristen welker at the white house. her first day back from maternity leave after welcoming her daughter margot back in june. kristen, i'm thrilled you're here. john, i'm happy that you're here, but not as thrilled as i am that kristen is here. punch bowl news co-founder, i'm going to kristen first. i'm getting frustrated. we keep hearing about the meetings, the pictures, but is

anything actually happening? any movement? movement is what matters to voters. >> well, first of all, thank you so much for having me and thank you for the warm welcome back. i appreciate it. it's so great to be back on your show. look, i think what you said at the top is accurate. there's a lot of talk. it's not clear how much progress there actually has been. what we do know is that there is a sense of urgency. there are more discussions than we have seen before. it's significant that senator manchin is talking to senator sanders. that is not something that we should overlook. as you pointed out, senator sinema will be here at the white house today, as will a group of moderates and progressives. so what are the key sticking points that they're foe cushion -- focused on right now? i'm told they're focused on potentially scaling back that key climate provision that was a part of the build back better plan. now, are progressives going to get on board with that? no one knows, steph.

that's a big question. they're even looking at scaling back the child tax credit. they're talking about other provisions, like a carbon tax. will they be able to find middle ground? will there be an agreement by the october 31st self-imposed deadline by democrats? that's the question. i've been talking to officials behind the scenes at the white house. one said they are very, very cautiously optimistic, but it is not clear they're all going to reach an agreement. so will they be able to get something done on these two big proposals, or will they start to look to peel these provisions off and try to pass things piecemeal? that's the big question here, i think, steph. >> okay. john, biden is meeting with moderates and progressivs at the white house but in separate rooms. how ridiculous is that? they cannot even meet in the same room. can you imagine any scenario in your professional life when you and colleagues who are supposed

to be on the same team can't even sit in the same room? >> no. i mean, it's not that bad. they're not, you know, ready to kill each other, but, you know, i think your setup was really good. there is a sense of urgency here. you know, congress is getting back. the house not in until tonight when they're voting. the senate came in yesterday. i mean, democrats have to make progress this week. they really have to get -- they have to get a top line agreement by october 31st, by then. you really think they have to do it by the beginning of next week. they need to have a vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill by october 31st or delay it for a second time, which would be a blow to moderates. they'd be upset by this. joe manchin and sinema were in the middle of that package. and then, you know, they've got to get some kind of traction on the human infrastructure bill, the build back better plan.

so, i mean, they have to show some kind of progress this week. the president is doing what he has to do. he needs to get involved. this is biden's agenda. this is the president's agenda. so this is critical for him to be personally involved. he's the only one who can make this deal happen. speaker pelosi, senate majority leader schumer, they didn't do it. it has to be the president. >> when we say they're going to the white house, kristen, is the president himself rolling you his sleeves and meeting with both teams? teams, i say. because he is pinning all of his hopes, basically, on getting this done this week. >> he is going to be in those critical meetings today, steph. there's no doubt about that. based on my conversations here, he is also going to be holding urgent phone calls throughout the week, really trying to get some movement on this. and i think you're going to see that personal involvement that y'all were just talking about on display when he hits the road. he is going to be in scranton, pennsylvania, tomorrow, talking about the build back better plan.

he'll hold a town hall event on thursday. there is so much at stake here. biden's agenda. even before that, steph, we are two weeks away from races all across the country, including key gubernatorial races. you havecauliffe, the democratic candidate in virginia, saying, "get into a room and get this done." because if you don't get an agreement, it could hurt chances for elections like terry mcauliffe's and other democrats across the country. of course, steph, it could have an impact on the midterms. the steaks could not be higher for this white house as they look to a day of urgent meetings behind the scenes. >> john, what are we to believe? last week, bernie sanders writing an op-ed in a west virginia paper, clearly going after joe manchin. but then, i showed it before, we saw that arm-in-arm photo of the two of them together. i don't get it. the thing about joe manchin, whether you love him or hate him, he has been consistent the whole entire time.

what he wants and sanders wants are never going to be aligned. >> you know, it is funny. that's exactly what we wrote this morning. manchin, if you followed him, which we do and you guys have done a great job with, you know, he's told everybody where he's at pretty much. you know, he was never going to go for $3.5 trillion. he is concerned about expanding medicare, which is something that sanders has done or sanders wants to do in terms of vision, dental, and hearing programs. he's never going to want to spend the kind of money progressives are going to want to spend. but he still wants to spend a lot of money. i mean, you're still talking about several trillion dollars. you know, he wants this infrastructure package that's over $1 trillion, and he would do a deal at $1.5 trillion to $2 trillion probably, depending how it is structured. you can get a lot of stuff in there. yes, he is not going to be, you know -- he is not going to give

the child tax credit for ten years at the level that they want. he'll want some means testing on that. but, you know, he's there for a deal if they can work hard. >> let's remember that. the bipartisan infrastructure bill kind of waiting in the wings, over 1 trillion bucks. kristen and john, good to see you both. john, you lost the baseball glove. where'd it go? >> oh, no. you know, i had to move because i was giving up on the yankees. they're not making me happy. >> well, it's football season. thank you, both. see you both soon. programming note, as the notions on the agenda are ramping up, i am in d.c. why? not just to see kristen. i'm interviewing janet yellen, treasury secretary. we'll be talking about the shipping backlog and the overall strength of our economy and, of course, the increasing wealth divide. we're going to air that tomorrow right here on msnbc at 9:00 a.m. coming up next, the battle over vaccine mandates. yes, they work.

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gotten the vaccine. they could be placed on administrative leave as early as today. washington state, things look a little better. a few weeks ago, 90% of state workers had gotten the shot. in baltimore, maryland, the police union has told officers -- the police union, i'll say it again, told officers not to comply with the mandate. a spokesperson said 64% of the department's 3,000 employees have gotten even a single dose. that brings us to the city of chicago. where the vaccine deadline was last friday but only two-thirds of the police department reported their vaccination status. roughly 4,500 department employees had not, including about 3,200 officers. nbc's meagan fitzgerald is in chicago right now. and carmen best joins us, retired police chief from seattle and law enforcement analyst. take us to chicago first. what happens to the 3,200 officers? are they going to be taken off the job? i mean, we certainly need cops on the job in chicago.

>> reporter: yeah, you're absolutely right. i mean, the crime rate here is surging. the answer to your question is yes. the mayor is moving forward with this mandate. there's a lot of speculation yesterday before her press conference on whether or not she would extend the deadline or not enforce it because we are talking about thousands of officers who have not complied. but what we understand right now is there is about 50 officers who have been placed already on unpaid leave. the mayor sort of detailing what this looks like. they are combing through the data to see who didn't comply. once they find these officers, they're summoning them to police headquarters, giving them another opportunity to comply with the mandate. if they refuse and are immediately placed on unpaid leave, the president of the fraternal order of police saying that he believes this will be in the thousands. there will be thousands of officers who will refuse to comply. steph, we had a chance to speak with some of the folks who are just steadfast in their beliefs. they don't want to be told what to do.

they don't want to get the vaccine, and they're willing to risk their jobs for it. >> police officers, it's their job to enforce rules, don't want to follow them themselves. carmen, how do you balance public safety and enforcing the mandates at the same time? i mean, you cannot pull thousands of officers off the street and expect it not to impact the city. >> good morning, stephanie. yeah, you're absolutely right. as a former police chief of a major city, having spent almost 30 years in law enforcement, it truly saddens me that so many officers are refusing to take the vaccination. simply because we have had more deaths from covid-19 of law enforcement officers than gunshots, vehicular accidents, or any other thing. officers have a responsibility, more so than any others, because of the front line work, to protect the public, protect themselves, protect their families. they wear bulletproof ballistic vests and handguns and other equipment they're required to

have to protect the public. this is one more mechanism to keep the public safe. i have watched officers risk their own lives to protect people in so many circumstances, so it is a bit baffling as to why they didn't want to take this one extra measure to protect the public. that said, we do have to recognize the individual right of the officers, and it puts police chiefs between a rock and a hard place. most agencies with a dwindling police force can't afford to lose 10% of the officers. >> baffling. can you help us understand? is there something about police officers that make them a tough sell for vaccines? if more died from covid than anything else over the last year and a half, why? why wouldn't they do this? >> yeah. it is baffling. but across the board, not only in police agencies, but across

the nation, we have so many people who are refusing to get vaccinated. so police are just a, you know, microcosm of the larger society. i'm hopeful we'll come to some resolution, maybe an extension will entice more. probably there are going to be people who do leave the profession behind this. >> extraordinary. extraordinary. thank you both for joining us this morning. i appreciate it. coming up, former president trump sat for a four and a half hour deposition under oath. so what did he say? could it be relevant to more than the other ten cases that are also against him, not just the one he was speaking about yesterday? we'll be talking to one of the attorneys who questioned him thex. next. ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience,

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this morning, new questions about what's next after former president trump wrapped four hours of testimony under oath during a video taped deposition yesterday afternoon. it was part of a case brought by people involved in this protest outside trump tower six years ago, after these photos were taken. members of trump's team were caught on camera, allegedly assaulting demonstrators as they tried to break things up. those protesters say trump laid the groundwork for the attack

because of his comments about mexican immigrants. joining me now to discuss, someone who questioned trump yesterday, attorney benjamin dickter. did the former president say anything that surprised you? >> first of all, good morning, stephanie. thank you for having me. thank you to all the union representative and editorial workers at msnbc who make this show happen in the morning. the subject of this trump deposition, like you said, i can't get into. it would be inappropriate at the time because the trial has not happened. this is testimony for trial. i would say that there are, you know, significant matters of interest that were discussed. i don't know whether they'll be interesting for people who are involved in other litigation with mr. trump or if they are matters that are generally newsworthy. but at some point, the deposition transcript will be public, as will the video. at that time, i suppose folks in the news, folks litigating with mr. trump will be able to

determine whether or not those things are relevant or helpful to them. >> okay. broadly speaking, do you think this deposition strengthened your case? >> absolutely. without question. >> all right. i know it is a much smaller scale, but your case could be relevant to the january 6th investigation. given that inciting violence is connected on both, do you think questions he answered could then getlinked or be used in the investigation into january 6th? >> what i'll say, stephanie, is that one of the subject matters that is obviously at issue in this case is donald trump's incitement of violence, and his incitement of violence among his security guards and people who described in statements as fighting for him. so what i would say is that we have evidence that we will present to the jury, and that evidence involves evidence of donald trump's incitement of

individuals. to the extent there are investigations going on concerning january 6th and whether or not donald trump incited violence on that instance, i'm obviously not involved in that investigation. i saw your earlier segment concerning the subpoenas in d.c. i don't know how they do subpoenas in d.c., but in bronx county, you have to honor a subpoena. that's what happened yesterday. maybe come to the bronx if you want the subpoenas answered. >> do you know when the video and transcript will be released? >> i can't say with certainty. what i can tell you is that we have a scheduling conference later this month in the bronx. at that scheduling conference, we expect to address a number of issues, including the next steps procedurally in the case, which would involve pretrial motions and involving things we call motios made before trial. at the time, there would be motions made over which portions of the transcript would be shown to a jury.

once shown to a jury, you know, they'd become public. so at that time, i think you would have a sense of when the transcript or portions of the transcript will be available. >> long story short, it sounds like it is going to be a while. a conference about scheduling. >> welcome to the bronx county court, stephanie. >> i can't -- i mean, that is the most impractical thing i've ever heard. your case is one of ten civil cases against trump. that is on top of the criminal probe in new york, d.c., and georgia. have you spoken to any of the other attorneys about what he told you yesterday? >> i can't say whether or not we've spoken to any other attorneys. >> why can't you say that? hold on a minute. >> i -- >> why can't you? >> well, again, these things are matters of strategy, in terms of litigation. we wouldn't want to obviously have any detrimental effect on anybody's litigation.

at the center of this testimony and the case is donald john trump as an employee, using physical force in the course of duties for the trump organization. this shouldn't come as a matter of surprise to folks, there are ample examples press, on youtube, anybody who has ever attended a rally or seen video footage of a rally from the 2016 campaign knows that donald trump has instructed individuals to engage in acts of violence, to engage in acts of confiscation of individual's property. and this is a matter of public record at this point, stephanie. >> it is. all right, ben, thank you for joining us. it's not that you can't tell us, it's that you don't want to. and that is interesting to me. >> coming up next, one miami school says vaccinated students must stay home for 30 days after each covid vaccine shot to protect others. that is absolutely ridiculous and it's a consequence of spreading misinformation that the cdc has already very clearly

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district. the average weekly positive rate for students in new york city's public schools is just 0.25%. that is very low. that is well below the city's overall average daily rate, but some experts say despite those encouraging numbers, the city might not be testing enough with their students. the vaccine battle is now hitting college football as well, with washington state firing football coach nick rolovich and four of his assistants for refusing the state mandate to get vaccinated for covid-19. and in hockey, the nhl has suspended evander kane for 21 games without pay, because he gave a fake covid vaccination card. but you have to turn up the volume for this story. it matters. one private school in miami is making headlines across the country for implementing this very controversial rule that is not based in any facts. if you vaccinate your child, you

will have to keep them home for 30 days after each shot over fears of, quote, vaccine shedding. a claim that has already been completely debunked the cdc. that very same school made headlines last spring from barring teachers who got vaccinated. brandy zadrozny joins me with more. what is vaccine shedding? the only place you can hear about it is on the internet. there's no respectable doctor talking about it. >> absolutely not. hey, steph. good morning. so vaccine shedding with covid is this super false claim that people who have been vaccinated somehow emit a kind of contagious particle. so it's not true. this vaccine is not a live vaccine. there is no shedding at all. but this claim has been spread mostly online. people claim that being near a vaccinated person can cause all

sorts of things in an unvaccinated person. we're talking infertile to the transmission of covid-19. i have read so many wild stories of people saying, you know, they won't let vaccinated family members near their newborn babies, that store owners won't let the unvaccinated customers come in anymore. you know, a teacher actually told students not to hug their parents for too long if they were vaccinated. it's junk. it's misinformation, but a lot of people believe it. >> dangerous junk. putting into context for us, tell us a little bit more about this school. >> to be clear, sentner academy is an outlier. they are millionaire real estate magnates in miami. they are the married cofounders of this centner academy. they happen to have a lot of money so they have a lot of power over this school. they are not regular people. they fund anti-vaccine films, targeting black, brown, and indigenous communities. they host antivaccine activists

at their school. they had robert f. kennedy at their school, having lunchtime with their children, with their students. they threatened teachers who got vaccinated and now they're threatening their students and parents based on this nonsense. >> is this the only school doing it? because i want to understand, how widespread is it in terms of the information they're putting out there, because even if it's one tiny school, suddenly this story makes its way around the country and louise ruhle is calling me saying, she's worried. >> extremes. we're not seeing this level of insanity sweeping through other schools, but for the last year and a half, schools have been sort of a ground zero for anti-maxers and anti-vaxers. florida schools have been hit particularly hard, but governor ron desantis imposed this ban on school mask mandates. so we have seen school board meetings being disrupted. we have seen teachers and school board members being threatened

and harassed. so this miami school is extreme, but it is indicative of the moment that we're in. >> besides us expecting you to work 24 hours, 7 days a week to debunk all of this garbage, what do we do to combat it? >> oh, gosh. i mean, you can all join me in the terrible parts of the internet. i think the important thing to remember is that this is extreme. this is an extreme community and an extreme situation. we have looked at mask mandates and vaccine mandates, and in general, these things work. there is some good news here. 95% of the country is going along just fine with vaccine mandates. 95 to 99% of schools before covid hit were doing -- were goo with vaccine mandates, got their kids vaccinated for measles, mumps, and rubella, and all kinds of stuff. there's a lot more evidence to suggest that things will go the same way this time. it's reason to hope. >> i always like to end the show with a little hope.

and it's rare you give us hope. brandy zadrozny, always good to see you. thank you for your extraordinary reporting. thank you at home for watching this very busy hour. i'm stephanie ruhle live in d.c., headed to go sit down with secretary janet yellen right now, but you are going to stay here, because jose diaz-balart picks up breaking news coverage right now. good morning, it's 10:00 a.m. eastern/7:00 a.m. pacific. a gang that abducted a group of missionaries in haiti is making demands for their release. joe manchin sits down with his progressive counterparts to talk about the big reconciliation bill to reshape the social safety net. is it a sign there could be movement? tomorrow, the senate will try again to advance a voting rights bill. alex padilla joins us to talk about their chances. n't covid front, the latest on at