documentary you don't want to miss. and the january 6th insurrection and the issues with facebook surrounding it. good morning to you. today is saturday, october 23rd. i'm ali velshi. we begin with developments in the ongoing investigation into the deadly january 6th attack on the nation's capitol. the select committee investigating the attack may gain insight from the former officials who tried to help the ex-president overturn the 2020 election. cnn was the first to report last night that former doj official jeffrey clark may be one of the first people to actually comply with the subpoenas and testify in front of the panel next week. you remember clark, who nobody knew about before this whole thing happened, emerged as a key figure to craft a plan to get the justice department to validate the ex-president's lies

about the election results. meanwhile, the department of justice, the current one, weighing potential criminal charges against the ex-presidential aide turned right-wing podcaster steve bannon over his refual to coop cooperate over the subpoena. every democrat in the house voted in favor of this. nine republicans joined with democrats which is indicative of how divided this country's political parties are over things they should come to consensus on. the capitol was attacked by violent mob supporters of a failed president. we all witnessed it. democrats want to get to the bottom of how this was allowed to happen. most people want to brush it under the rug from the other party. this dismissal doesn't make sense to rational people until you think of the gop's real audience.

a party attempts to mainstream extremism. when it comes to bannon, he is portraying himself as a martyr for a cause and defending those who stormed the capitol. they want to portray as brave patriots when they were actually rioters and trying to subvert the election results. the twice impeached former election is winking and nodding because they embrace and amplify the lie of the 2020 election. it is not only irresponsible, but a threat to democracy since the former president is the one who is still pulling the springs in the gop. he is also implicitly inviting more fringe ideology through the front door of the party. that spells trouble for all of us. when it comes to the insurrection investigation, it will take the january 6th committee and the department of justice to demonstrate we do actually live in the country where the law matters and

reality is not up for interpretation. for more on this, i'm joined by betsy swan with politico. betsy, thank you for being with us. these are interesting developments. house voting to deal with steve bannon. we don't know how it plays out. you can tell us. the idea that jeffrey clark who is central to the operations in trying to overthrow the election is going to testify. tell us. >> clark is scheduled to come in and talk to the select committee in my view, by far, the most significant development in terms of information that these investigators have access to. he is on the schedule. we expect the interview to happen. these are unusual circumstances and the project the select committee is engaging in. until clark is in the door and answering questions, don't think

it is a foregone conclusion. clark knows who was pushing doj to propagate the nonsense conspiracy theories. what the president was telling senior doj officials about his efforts to overturn the election and just how close things got to turning into an even more dangerous and volatile circumstance or outcome. clark is just a key witness here. i think everyone following this closely is on pins and needles to find out what he would say. >> the difference is we heard bannon's name for years. bannon was an adviser. clark was an operative. he was in the doj. he seemed to be poised to actually take over the department of justice if trump removed his top official there

is the acting attorney general. the overturning depended more on jeffrey clark? >> that is right. according to testimony of another doj official. jeff rosen. jeffrey clark said that trump told him rosen was going to be fired and clark was going to take over as acting attorney general. this was in the context of clark moving forward trump's efforts to overturn the election. it is extremely important to know what clark knows and level of detail he has about the election overturned effort. the other thing interesting about clark is most of the lawyers around trump in his final days who were pushing this effort to reverse the election outcome were not government employees. rudy giuliani could not get a job in the trump administration. john eastman did not have a trump administration job. this is the end of the trump

administration and only trump's most on-board bitter loyalists were still working for him and in the category of people, clark was the only senior trump administration lawyer that we know of who was actively pushing to spread conspiracy theories to these other states. the white house counsel was against it. jeff rosen. was against it. richard donahue. the second in command was against it. it is notable that clark was the only one we're aware of who was participating in the effort. it tells you something about just how fringy these efforts were. too fringy for trump's most loyal government and administration attorneys. >> entirely possible not too fringy to have actually happened which is the concern we got. betsy, good to see you. thank you for joining us. betsy woodruf swan. we might be looking at a

breakthrough for the biden administration. democrats may be poised to strike a deal that so far alluded them. here is what we know about what is likely to stay in the big bill and what is likely to not make the cut. what is likely to stay in the bill is federal paid leave. four weeks of it. a bit of an embarrassment. down from the initially proposed 12 weeks. most countries, developed countries and non developed countries do better than this. universal pre-k. child tax credit gets a one-year extension. vouchers for dental costs. increases to pell grants and unspecified climate change funding. that worries me. and some elder care provisions. here is what is likely out of the plan. free community college. two years of free community college was supposed to be included. expanded medicare coverage.

dental, vision and hearing. america is one of the only developed countries that does not have some form of universal health care. clean electricity performance program. this was torpedoed by john manchin who thinks this country should continue to run on coal. and tax rate hikes on corporations and top income earners which is how we would pay for the larger deal. a lot of stuff that is worrisome. however, the good news is something seems to be getting done. joining me is the democratic congress member madeleine dean of pennsylvania. the member of the house judiciary and financial services committee. she is served as the house manager in the trump second impeachment. representative dean, good morning. we are close to -- we are told by your colleagues -- we are close to having an arrangement or deal on the two big bills.

the smaller one we have an arrangement on. the smaller one we have agreement on. what can you tell us? >> i think your reporting is fairly accurate. we have not seen the contours of the build back better plan. what is in there is what is exciting. you point out it is embarrassing it is four weeks of paid family leave. what is more embarrassing is we don't have any. i'm delighted with what is coming in. universal pre-k. important dollars for climate. we will do in terms of what our children are getting and in terms of the planet we leave them and education that they obtain. these are really exciting things. i'm optimistic. you could feel the momentum moving last week if you remember in washington, d.c. in our caucuses. you could tell the deal was coming together. when we paired that with the infrastructure bill, this is

going to be an economic engine for families. >> what is the sense of how the democratic party comes together on this? this was initially painted as a battle with progressives and moderates in the party. it is a big bill. still a big bill. a smaller bill than most of the progressive colleagues wanted it to be. >> i enjoy participation in the progressive caucus and new democrats caucus. what i'm proud of it both of those caucuses influenced to the good the plan. the build back better plan. in partnership with the administration. i know it was fun for some to try to paint it as a dysfunctional disagreement in our caucus, actually, we worked really well together. actually 96% of the caucus is in favor of what we will do and what we will pass with build back better and bipartisan

infrastructure deal. the squabbling is less than you thought. they are continuing to support the big lie and throughout the rule of law or lawful subpoenas. we're governing. our select committee for january 6th moved quickly to markup and take a vote on the resolution to hold steve bannon in contempt of congress. it has now been referred to the justice department. i believe they will act swiftly. republicans threaten default, flaunt the rule of law. democrats moving forward legislation help for working families and to help our planet. >> i want to ask because you and you are a lawyer.

you understand these things. during the second impeachment of trump, there were details given with respect to what donald trump did and what people knew and how he encouraged this thing. now the criminal referral has been sent to the department of justice, you have merrick garland, the attorney general, who has emphasized this is the department of justice. this is looked at as the department of justice should and not be political about it. that is how it should go, but feels frustraing and feels it will take longer. how should we think about this? we come out of four years where the department of justice was a play thing for the former president. >> you are absolutely right. it is a great relief the department of justice is independent and looking out for the rule of law for all americans, not a law firm for a cult-like surrounding president who failed.

this week, you saw merrick garland in the committee answering questions around january 6th and all kinds of things having to do with the rule of law. i see merrick garland someone who gets it. he is a measured man. he is a jurist. he knows the department of justice must act swiftly and with urgency on the matter of january 6th. after all, this is not just an investigation of what was passed, it is an investigation of what is continuing. we need to have the information that mr. bannon and all of the people surrounding the president those weeks and the day of and during the insurrection. i'm delighted mr. clark is absolutely adhering to the rule of law. he was in the justice department. it will be very important and i really think that it's refreshing. we shouldn't have been in the

place we were for years with trump using the department of justice and putting people in place to simply protect him. we have in merrick garland someone who is measured and thoughtful and steady and really adheres to the rule of law. he will act swiftly. i have confidence the department will act swiftly. >> representative dean, you were an impeachment manager in the second impeachment. madeleine dean, my member of congress, when i'm in the philadelphia suburbs. good to see you. >> thank you. we'll have a full table set this morning. we continue the conversation about joe biden's agenda at the top of the hour with the new york congress member ritchie torres who is with the group this week. plus we have a special look at "civil war" which airs tomorrow night on msnbc. the filmmaker will talk about how the project came to be and

lessons she learned from the experience. for the latest "velshi" across america. i travel to mississippi to dive into the ways of the disconceptions of the ways the civil war continues to misrepresent america today. r coo misrepresent america today ( doorbell ) boom! because i'm keeping it casual. ( blowing ) growing up in a little red house, boom! because i'm keeping it casual. on the edge of a forest in norway, there were three things my family encouraged: kindness, honesty and hard work. over time, i've come to add a fourth: be curious. be curious about the world around us, and then go. go with an open heart, and you will find inspiration anew. viking. exploring the world in comfort. with voltaren arthritis pain gel my husband's got his moves back.

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baldwin was told the firearm on set he used was safe to use by the assistant director that gave it to him and was not loaded with live ammunition. no charges have been filed. plenty of questions remain. emilie ikeda reports. >> reporter: horror after a mistake. details released about the moments about the tragic and deadly accident. >> bonanza creek road. >> reporter: alec baldwin seen in anguish after firing a prop gun on the "rust" scene. killing halyna hutchins. according to a search warrant, another crew member, assistant director, grabbed the prop gun and yelled cold gun.

unaware it was loaded with live rounds. hutchins took a lethal shot to the chest. souza was wounded in the shoulder. documents reveal the person in charge was the armorer is new to the role. following in her father's footsteps. >> i'm still learning. dad has taught me everything. i think loading blanks is the scariest thing to me. >> reporter: a safety bulletin says live ammunition is never to be used. except for the rare occasion with special conditions such as notification made on the call sheet which did not appear to be the case for the movie "rust." >> if it was a live round, where did it come from? >> reporter: nbc news heard the prop gun has misfired on set before. prompting some crew members to

walk off the work site. they were not made aware of official complaints of weapon or prop safety on set. added, they will be conducting an internal review of procedures. the famed 30 rock actor is cooperating with police and in touch with hutchins husband who is now speaking out. matthew hutchins writing, her legacy is too meaningful. our loss is enormous. >> thank you, emilie. coming up, we may be about to turn corners in the battle of covid. big news on booster shots and potential vaccines for kids. we'll break that down after this. kids. we'll break that down after this diabetes never seemed to take one. everything felt like a 'no'. everything. but then ray went from no to know. with freestyle libre 2, now he knows his glucose levels when he needs to. and... when he wants to. so ray... can be ray.

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after months of waiting, children in the united states between ages of 5 and 11 may get

vaccinated. the fast says the pfizer vaccine benefits over risks. adding the shot is 91% against severe infections. the fda panel is reviewing it next week. then a signoff by the cdc would make vaccines for young kids a reality as soon as early november. this comes after the fda and the cdc this week green lit the use of moderna and j&j booster shots for adults. not only did they approve boosters for pharma companies, but approved mixing and matching. pfizer and moderna booster shots approved last month are supposed to be taken six months after one is fully vaccinated. right now, they are only available to people 65 years and older or adults over 18 with underlying health conditions or those who live or work in high risk settings.

j&j is recommended two months after that one because it is only one jab. i'm joined by dr. peter hotez. he is with children's hospital in texas. peter, good to see you. you tweeted something i was thinking. too often the mix and match is a random decision when there are rational choices behind it. i asked you whether it being safe is the same thing as whether people should pursue mixing and matching if such a choice existing. >> that's right. i think a lot of the language that is out there right now, ali, is a free-for-all. do what you like. it is all good. it is not quite right. here's the way i think of it. if you break it down for the three vaccines. i got the two doses of the pfizer biontech.

for the third, i chose pfizer. there is a lot more data on the homogoulus with israel. same with moderna. the company will have a lot more incentive and access to data for their shot for the third immunization. generally speaking, finish with what you started with is the way i think of this. for the j&j vaccine, it is not a booster, but auto correction. it should have been a two-dose vaccine. it is not protection or immunity waning with the j&j, but it is higher with the two doses. we can talk about some exceptions with the j&j if you are pregnant or on birth control for being at risk for thrombotic issues. >> should you be looking at a

booster shot or are your antibodies built up? >> we don't have the data. one thing we know is the following. if you are infected and then recovered, whether or not you have been vaccinated before, and get immunization, you get not only a strong immune response in terms of level of virus antibodies, but a broadening of epitopes. these are studies done by the group at rockefeller university and yale showing if you have been infected and you have been vaccinated, you have the best protection of all. >> peter, i want to ask you about transmission threats bubbling up, particularly cold weather states where people are being indoors a little more. there is the delta plus variant in the uk. anything on the horizon worrying you particularly right now? >> two things. i think we are seeing a lot of

complacency. we are hearing from a number of individuals who feel like we're out of it now. you know, this is the last big wave we're experiencing now with the long tale and long holiday season. that's possible. mother nature tells us what she has planned for us. we saw a wave last summer and declined this time of year. then after the holidays after thanksgiving, you saw the surge. that's what i'm worried about. i think there are too many unvaccinated americans out there. maybe what we see in the northern border, minnesota, michigan, the mountain states, is the beginning of that. i'm holding my breath. i'm still concerned about another big wave this winter. i think in regards to the delta plus variant. i'm not so worried about it. it doesn't look that much different from the original delta. it is maybe more transmissible, but we have more than enough to worry about with the delta

variant. >> peter, thank you. we have been talking about this since early last year. you understood this virus more than other people. thank you. dr. hotez. coming up, unions are not dying on the vine in new york. in fact, for farmers, they are taking root. stay with us for an historic first. with us for an historic first. (burke) i've seen this movie before. (woman) you have? (burke) sure, this is the part where all is lost and the hero searches for hope. then, a mysterious figure reminds her that she has the farmers home policy perk, guaranteed replacement cost. and that her home will be rebuilt, regardless of her limits or if the cost of materials has gone up. (woman) that's really something. (burke) get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks.

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another worker hopes unioniing hopes to get sick pay and rights. we will have more on that when we get it. the agriculture industry in new york state is worth $5 billion. no doubt enough for paid sick days for employees. this milestone was made possible by the law that went into effect in 2020 that insured farmers overtime pay and one day of rest per week and the right to organization. new york state has a long and troubling history of excluding agriculture workers from legislation that solidified basic rights for everybody else. i said this before. i'll say it again. from hollywood to the vineyards of long island unions are beneficial because they fight for basic rights for employees. if we can't have basic rights for employees, we are failed as a country. this is a win and a huge step in the right direction. to that, i raise a glass of

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tomorrow night at 10:00 p.m., msnbc will air a documentary dealing with race and southern pride. the peacock film "civil war" takes viewers through the deep south and up north and back again as it explores the tactical war-time triumphs that defines our nation's legacy. the outcome of the civil war and lost confederacy that some southerners are fighting for are all part of the legacy. the war began because of the south's refusal to bolish slavery. there are still people who to this day deny that fact.

some people are taking matters in their hands to ensure they are taught the correct history. >> this class is where the teacher is teaching the cause of slavery. does that offend you? >> yes. >> can you explain to me why? >> because it's not true. >> do people talk about slavery as the cause of the war? >> you don't hear the word slavery. it was an incidental part of it. i guess the simple term is whitewash. a lot of time you want to see the good part of history. the history you are part of. you want to minimize the bad part about it. slavery is not an easy topic to tackle for black or for white. >> joining me now is that teacher. a former history teacher.

a principle at the holmes county high school in lexington, mississippi. he was featured in the documentary. also with us is rachel boynton. thank you for being with us this morning. rachel, let me start with you. what made you want to do this film? why was it important to discuss this topic? >> i started thinking about this film in 2015 shortly after the massacre at the ame church in charleston, south carolina. there was a lot of discussion of confederate symbolism. i was aware a portion of the country who believed the war wasn't fought over slavery. if we are not telling the story, how will we be unified as a nation? my first thought is to see how we are teaching our children. what history were they learning and how that shapes them and the future. >> antoine, one thing you

struggled with and tried to teach your students is that they actually -- your students, many of whom are black -- were learning the wrong history. it is not clear to people and viewers there is a different history of the civil war that is still being taught. we know about the lost cause and it used to be taught. to this day in mississippi, young black and white kids are learning that this was about the northerners invading their country and slavery was a side issue. >> i think the biggest part is that it is not taught. in the part that is taught deals with states rights. then you deal with slavery as an incidental part. it is not taught in detail enough that you look at different things and say why are did south carolina succeed?

those are the things we want to bring in the classroom to make sure students, my students, our students understand. all students that the correct history is the history that is actually written primarily from south carolina and mississippi and you will find african-americans will understand history not from the news or from actual books and reading and research. >> rachel, the elephant in the room here. you are white. you are tackling an issue that largely affects black people to this day in this country. how did this play out? >> i would take issue with that statement. i think this is an issue that affects all americans. this is the time to think about the history that is their history. while i was making the film and i made several films. this is the only film i made in my country and only time i have

been consistently questioned of what gives you the right to make this movie. i think i have a chip on my shoulder. >> i'm not questioning why, it is a great film with great sensitivity. >> i believe it is time for white people to own the issue. the issue of race in america and issue of racism in america is a white problem. white people need to engage with it and engage in african-american history as american history. this is our story. >> a huge theme woven through the film is preserving a certain part of history that rachel is making here. the concept of who we value as american heros. i want to play something you said in the film. >> we take for granted the lives lost. who is brave to try the system?

that's what makes these guys heroic. we can't devalue what we did. white guy whose grandfather was a confederate. if they can keep their memory alive, why can't we? >> i want you to elaborate on the thought that rachel was saying. every year, they learned about confederate hero and learned about the same three black people every year. >> i think that is true. the biggest thing in history is sometimes we talk about southern history. we don't include african-americans as part of are southern history. when you talk about southern history, if you don't include slavery and don't include some of the main individuals in the civil war and reconstruction, then you are missing the biggest part of it. in holmes county, you have a

confederate monument of unknown soldiers. are you telling me that unknown soldiers or soldiers who fought in the civil war deserve a monument in 80% predominant county and we should stand by and say this is our history? that's the part as history teachers and professionals, we have to say this is not accurate. this is wrong. at some point, we must take a stand and say these individuals who fought in the civil war for slavery. those are traitors. we must start them again. everybody must accept that fact based on facts and based on documents that prove -- it is not an argument. we talk about the holocaust. there is only one way to it. one side to it. why couldn't there be one side to slavery? the problem is the narrative.

we got it take back the narrative and say this is what you are saying and call it out. it is not accurate. at some point, as history teachers and historians, we must correct that part of the history that tries to devalue the primary reason of the civil rights -- excuse me. civil war. >> thank you to both of you for taking the time to talk to us. antwayn patrick. principal of holmes county high school in lexington, mississippi. rachel boynton is the filmmaker of "civil war." it airs tomorrow night here on msnbc. the subject is something that gets my gears going. i decided to dive in deeper for "velshi across america." my conversation about this with six locals in jackson,

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like the chance to win a universal parks & resorts trip to hollywood or orlando to attend halloween horror nights. or xfinity rewards members, get the inside scoop on halloween kills. just say "watch with" into your voice remote for an exclusive live stream with jamie lee curtis. a q&a with me! join for free on the xfinity app. our thanks your rewards. before the break we had a discussion about the new peacock original film civil war which centers around the teaching of that in american classrooms which got me fired up so i decided to explore the topic first hand with people who know the topic well for velshi across america. i was joined by six locals and

we talked about how misconceptions have affected generations that followed. here's part of that conversation. >> you know, you ask these guys about what it means to be a southerner, and i think for a lot of kind of mainstream, particularly white middle class america when they think about southerners, they think about white southerner, right? if we understand a place like mississippi in the immediate aftermath of the civil war, the majority of the population was african-american, and they immediately began exploring the mythology around what it meant to be black in the south, what it meant to be an enslaved person, and that was the only proper treatment for african-americans and that gets exploded immediately and for the majority of the population in mississippi they won the civil war. it was a victory for freedom and emancipation, and it really takes a white supremacist revolution to institute the system of power that would become jim crow to overthrow

that majority of the population and that really, as you said, that's a history that's misunderstood that we often cast as a period of reconstruction as a dark period of american history and it was one here in mississippi of great promise and potential that had to be forwarded by a white minority that was seeking to reclaim their power. >> did you learn about it the way it actually happened? it was mostly about slavery? >> yes, it was mostly about slavery, and no, i did not learn about it until later on in life when i really learned the truth, history, and i think part of that was because of the textbooks we had in our schools, you know, textbooks were adopted based on what the white man said that we could use. we were not on textbook

committees or the states, so we could not have -- we didn't have any say so in terms of what we could use, and in many instances, these textbooks were books that were passed down to us from whites. >> but what i found most offensive as a young person growing up was the ignorance around the contributions of all around mississippi. mississippi is -- particularly jackson was culturally diverse, we had chinese, lebanese, italian, jewish folk all working together down capital street and fair street and that was the hub of all of our business e but around the time when bilbo came up they pretty much made it clear that we're tired of this multicultural bustling city you've got that's giving jobs and opportunities for all people of color and whites and you're going to have to choose. you're going to be white or

you're going to be black. so those of us in mississippi who know our history and know what it has been, what it could be, we're happy to still be here to make that vision real, but if you don't know your history, and you don't understand, you are doomed to repeat it or be a victim of it. >> taylor, you and timothy are of a different generation. do you think you've got the real story? >> absolutely not. >> wow. i can remember every year going to school when it got to black history month or when we got the textbooks to the slavery and civil war section we hear about different confederate soldiers and general every single year, but then we get to black history month and you hear about rosa park, malcolm x and martin luther king every single year for 12 years as if they were the only three, you know, black

heroes of the country, but yet as i said every year there's different confederate and -- like, soldiers and generals that are being praised by these teachers in the classroom as if they were heroes. well, they might be heroes to you, but they weren't heroes to me. so in that aspect i feel like the school system failed, you know, students, but especially black students. we're in america and we love to say that we're a melting pot, but our education system doesn't reflect that we are a melting pot. >> i originally started off in private schools. a lot of the segregation here that exists in mississippi is due to a lot of white kids going to private schools. >> segregated academies? >> yeah. i realized i don't ever see those kind of schools in the schoolis that eventually go to. when i got to gps the resources were different. i used to have books and go home

when i was in private school. when i have to jps, and the classroom is not big enough for 20-plus students and the classroom is huge because there aren't enough teachers and the textbooks have pages ripped out or we're sitting there going on field trips and that was the first time i heard about evers because i was standing in his house and not because i was reading about him in a book. for me it seems like if i understood where i came from i'd be mad, and i would be noticing everything that around me and i feel like that was very intentional. >> there is a practice of interrogating the role of race and racism in society. why are people so worried about learning about the role that race and racism may have played in the building of this nation? >> so being southern we live our life by analogies and one that my mom used to give me a lot is you don't throw a rock and hide

your hand. you don't want to escape the causation of something that you did, and i feel like it takes a lot to stand in your own truth. i think it takes a lot to acknowledge you threw the rock and that everything that you're looking at around you is fault of your own, and i feel like for a lot of people it's just indoctrinating that idea that a lot of this is my fault, and oh, man, a lot of people were harmed by this and they just have to exist with it and not say anything else about it and not be represented for what they felt about it. throwing a rock is easier than slavery and 400 years of slavery and being put at the back of the line or being asked to acknowledge somebody i don't feel like it's a lot, but it's just intimidating for some people. >> that's what's taught at the universities, at law school. it's not being taught through k-12. so all these people with their hair on fire to fight critical race theory, they're fighting

something that doesn't exist. i've seen some people are afraid of the word critical. they hear critical. oh, you're criticizing me. no. that's an approach to learning. it's not that i'm criticizing you. i'm taking a critical look at something so if we can get people to understand what it means maybe they won't be so afraid, but they've been whipped up so much through politics. >> don't go anywhere. we're just getting started on this saturday morning. straight ahead representative richie torres joins the conversation and he was part of a group that met with president biden this week. another hour of velshi starts right now. ♪♪ ♪♪ good morning. it's 9:00 a.m. in the east, 6:00 a.m. out west. i'm ali velshi. the ball's in the doj court as it weighs criminal contempt charges against the ex-president former strategist turned podcaster steve bannon. this week