mansion on board. i took a road to jackson, mississippi this week to have a fascinating and important conversation about how we teach history in this country and reckoning with the racism that's shot through it. a velshi across america coming up. "velshi" starts now. good morning to you. it is sunday, october 24th. i'm ali velshi. as democrats debate president biden's multi trillion build back better social spending plan. the president is set to meet with west virginia senator joe mansion one of the main members of the party pushing to lower the price tag on that bill. senate majority leader chuck schumer will be part of that meeting and to lower the price, democrats will have to make some difficult choices about what stays in the bill and what goes. the detroit free press reporting that just yesterday, house speaker nancy pelosi said in part, quote, the ingredients for

legislation will all be here by sunday, hopefully the decisions will be there and they are hard. as democrats attempt to shave down the price tag of the reconciliation package, they are deciding whether to expand medicare with dental, vision and hearing benefits for tens of millions of seniors and a pitch to guarantee paid family and medical leave to all u.s. workers is now in danger of getting cut from the bill entirely. democrats are racing to finalize an outline for the legislation as they attempt to meet their self-imposed october 31st deadline to vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill. elsewhere on capitol hill, the justice department will be diving into deliberations of its own. the fate of the failed former president strategists turned podcaster steve bannon lies with the department of justice as it weighs whether to prosecute him

for defying the house select committee subpoena. so far, he has refused to testify or hand over any documents related to the deadly january 6th attack on our capitol. obstruction and denial seem to be the name of the game republicans are playing as most of them continue to take orders from a twice impeached ex president. for the sake of our democracy, it's critical we find out the truth about january 6th while campaigning for terry. >> what are you willing to stand up for? when are you willing to say no to supporters? when are you willing to say some things are more than being elected. >> you've been analyzing how the republican party changed in the

wake of the former president's time in office and in the aftermath of the insurrection. phillip, good to see you. we talked a lot about this you and i and on the show. the idea there are republicans , more traditional republicans that have policies and initiatives they want to advance but they are being drowned out but a very powerful faction of the republican party that's about insurrection and denial of the outcome of the election, sort of conspiratory myths. >> yeah, i mean, or even less directly than that. we saw last week condoleezza rice made a television appearance in when she said january 6th was bad but that's behind us and we need to focus what is important moving forward including elevating talking points central toll gubernatorial race in virginia.

republicans understand that donald trump has a very loud and very loud base of support and they're not interested in going across that base for obvious reasons. we seen the cost some of them insured for doing so. they keep their head down and don't want to talk about trump and want to move forward but that's becoming more and more difficult to do as this clamber on the right in conservative media continues to go at the same volume. >> i want to direct people to the work that you've done "the washington post." you've actually got a few charts and i want to show the viewers one of them in which you show how house republicans are aligning on a pro and anti insurrectionist axis. it shows republicans who rejected the caucus consensus on the vote to impeach trump for his role in the attack, the vote to form the committee that would investigate the attack, the january 6th committee and holding steve bannon in

contempt. there are very few who have voted in a prodemocracy way. how do you look at this complicated chart? how do you look at this and interpret this for viewers? >> it's definitely worth something looking at to spend time on. the upshot is this, there are a number of votes taken by the house where the house republican caucus is able to choose either holding those who are involved or encouraged january 6th to happen or not doing so. some of the contrary votes for example, there are multiple votes to offer the congressional gold medal to the capitol police officers and there were republicans that voted against that. that's an indication you're speaking out against this movement for accountability and understanding what occurred that day. there is a resolution to condemn the coup in burma that a number of those same legislators voted against. this is seen as by some, not by all, standing up to the government in a way that's

obviously problematic. so there is this access that's emerged between people like yeah, we should have a committee to investigate and we don't want to condemn a coup. that's a pretty clear thing and we're seeing parties align with that. >> worth taking a close look at the chart to understand where the republican caucus is. phil, good to see you. a national correspondent for "the washington post." i want to bring in democratic representative pete aguilar of california who spends a lot of time with us on the show and he's here in studio. he represents the 31st congressional district and the vice chair of the house democratic caucus and more importantly, he's a member of the house select january 6th committee. good to see you in real life. >> good to see you in person.

>> you have an important role, you and your fellow committee members have an important role in getting to the bottom of what we need to get to the bottom of. who led january 6th? who planned it? who funded it? tell me how you feel. you have some progress in you subpoenaed a number of people and one person that's quite central to it, jeffrey clark is poised to give you information you need and testimony you're looking for. >> i think it's important to note we'll hear from a variety of individuals and we have been throughout the last number of weeks, we've had dozens of interviews, lost of conversations and there are key points and obviously this week in the bannon conversation was important. it important to hold folks accountable and to acknowledge lawful subpoena needs to be up eld. it's a good thing for the investigation. >> there is reporting out of the washington post we had known before but more detailed about a

command center set up at the willard hotel after the election and speaks to the degree how organized this was. an excerpt says they were led by rudolph giuliani and bannon was a presence and former new york city police commissioner was there as an investigator and john eastman, the scholar that outlined scenarios for denying biden the presidency in an oval office meeting with trump and vice president mike pence. it speaks to the degree to which nothing on january 6th seemed was as spontaneous as some people would have you believe that it was a rally that just got everybody going and they suddenly charged the capitol. there was an organized effort with a lot of people to do something that was disruptive to democracy, whether or not they fully intended for people to die in the process is unclear. >> and clearly, from the

election on and that's why we've been saying this is about other rallies in november and december but everything from the president fomenting election concerns in the fall to january 6th. that should be in play. >> let's talk about if donald trump is in the investigation. a number of you on the committee and your chairman have been asked would you and can you subpoena donald trump? >> well, it's not the first thing we're looking to do. clearly there are a lot of investigative interviews we're doing this week and in the following weeks but we won't shy away from following the facts and getting the truth. the chairman, chairman thompson is clear about this vice chair cheney. we'll follow the facts and have these interviews and if they lead to additional interviews that we need to take, we'll under take those but we're not closing any doors. >> steve bannon is following

legal procedures to get away from talking to you-all, the whole house has voted to refer him to the department of justice. time in history are on his side. in other words, it tends to be very hard for congress to do something about someone who is in contempt of congress and speaks to the idea the trump administration while in office continued to run out the clock on a lot of things legally. they are hoping for a legal system that in this country does tend to be a little slow in the interest of getting to the bottom of things. tell me how that compares to the idea that you're in that committee now and you do have a finite amount of time to solve this problem. >> the process can play out but we won't have a ton and chase down every lead and we feel

federal law is clear to the u.s. attorney that they have a duty to bring it and that's all we're asking and that's our expectation. >> you and a lot of americans were critical of the former department of justice, the justice department under donald trump which seemed to be doing the president's bidding. merrick garland is determined he and his justice department don't look like they're doing political bidding. there was some hope your reporting would be out by the end of the year on this. does that look likely? >> let's be clear. the reporting for the end of the year assumed a bipartisan proposal for the commission for a non-partisan commission for january 6th. republicans and mitch mcconnell beat that back. we want to get this done and do it the right way. it will take into next year. ultimately, we'll produce a report, though, and make sure

this is done right. >> based on the information you know now, you're a committee and want to research everything, based on the information you know now, what is it americans should be thinking they didn't already know from the second impeachment about january 6th? what surprised you so far? >> what surprised us so far is how layered this is and second impeachment work still stands up but we're going to have a lot more conversations and time to do the analysis necessary to connect the dots and tell the full and complete story how close we came to losing democracy. that's what we want folks to know how important and impactful a peaceful transfer of power is. it's a hallmark of democracy. what steps do we need to take and what steps will others take who don't want us to do that? what steps can they take in the future to close these and put up road blocks in our way? we need to make sure we acknowledge those and do everything we can to protect democracy. >> great to see you.

we always appreciate it. you even get up for us when you're on the west coast,ly ear appreciate it. pete aguilar on the committee to investigate january 6th in addition to things he does in congress. lots more "velshi" coming up. we'll continue the conversation about the biden agenda with sherrod brown of ohio and one of the senators holding up progress. hint, it's someone biden is meeting with today. plus, we've got a special look at the peacock original film "civil war," the ripple effect from the war in the country's legacy of slavery are still felt today yet some white folks think black people should just get over it. i'll put it to a professor in the film and part two of my conversation exploing the teaching of the civil war in american stars. what is true, what isn't and why false believes are still abound.

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you probably have been hearing us here on msnbc talk about this peacock original film "civil war" or who do we think we are? it area tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern. it's really good and exposes discrib sees how the civil war is teaching lies to our children. to this day, some southern school districts refuse to teach slavery as the cause of the civil war and they refuse to teach about the vicious institutionalized racism against black people that persisted in this country ever since.

the film lays bare the pervasiveness of the lie that dismisses the continuing legacy of slavery that tells people of color, black people, still suffering under centuries of institutionalized racism to get over it. here is what one professor featured in the film had to say in response. >> i have been conditioned to think of emancipation as an ending point. i realize freedom was not just like liberation, freedom was like owning your humanity, operating in your full humanity, being recognized for your full humanity. i think the spirit of slavery that i talked about before that makes color a mark of dedrigation has been happening too long. this isn't a people of color issue.

this is a wipe supremacy issue where white people need to talk to other people people how to overcome the issues. white allies have to take a very radical stance. >> joining me is the professor you saw on the clip, a friend of our show, kelly carter jackson a historian, professor at wellesley college and the award winning author of "force and freedom, black abolitionists and the politics of violence" professor carter-jackson, thank you for being with us. in that clip you ended by saying white allies need to take a radical stance. what does that look like? why does white allies, i think a lot of my viewers would think of themselves as white allies or at least the white ones, what does taking a radical stance look like? >> yeah, you know, it's not actually as radical as we might think it is. you know, when i tell my students i want them to be student activists, they think you want me to get arrested? no, i don't want you to get arrested. i want you to take the knowledge

and information you have and act on it. i want that knowledge to impact where you put your kids in school and what you purchase and invest in, what you vote on. like, have that information inform you so you can act on it. too many of us get information and don't know what to do with it but i think there is a real way we can implement these ideas, these practices into our daily lives so that we can help other people of color and speak up for them and advocate for them so people of color don't always have to do this work. >> do you think in the last year and a half some of that has emerged, actually? i know in the protest that followed the killing of george floyd, i witnessed in minneapolis and chicago here in new york city, white allies being arrested in protest of police brutality. >> yeah, and that actually was really encouraging and i would even say like an anomaly in someways. we looked at some of the

protests in 2020. some had more white people protesting than black people there and that was really encouraging and inspiring but i think as we've gotten further away from george floyd in a post george floyd moment, one year later, we've seen that race attitudes have regressed. they have gone back to right where they were before george floyd. one of my good colleagues at wesley college has done this work, as well and showed how white people no longer feel those elevated sense of urgency about what to do about racism. and so it's tough to keep the momentum going. it's tough to keep people invested in the work for a long period of time. >> in your film and book, you raise an interesting idea that is it's about the glory of violence, the fighting for the establishment of the american is heroic, that's heroic violence.

the violence under taken if there is violence in the ablation of slavery and overcoming of slavery and overcoming of jim crow laws and the establishment of civil rights in this country and more recently in the fighting off of police brutality, black people committing violence for justice is seen very differently in history than white people committing violence for justice. >> absolutely. we talked about this last time i was on the show. this idea we have a very row -- romancized view. give me liberty or give me deaths, these slogans that valorize violence when they engage in force and non-violent protests like colin kaepernick taking a knew, people lose their minds. it's interesting there is no form of protest that black

people can engage in that's going to get white supremacist approval. all former protests, you know, is an interrupiton. blowing a moll tifr cocktail will not be approved of. it's hard to advocate for things you want when you can't get people on board what is the appropriate way to protest and can't move past the double standard of pro thank you. thanks for your participation in the documentary. she's a professor at wellesley college in massachusetts. tune in to watch "civil war" or who do we think we are that area tonight here on msnbc. don't go anywhere, i got the latest installment from jackson, mississippi coming up next. llme, mississippi coming up next

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before the break, we were talking about this new peacock original film, "civil war" that focuses on how history about the civil war is taught in american schools. for the latest installment of "velshi across america" i traveled to jackson, mississippi where i was joined by six locals. we talked about how the civil war is framed ideologically by white southerners, in all be many of them and why that segment of the population is resistant to a narrative that so many americans already know to be true. here is part two of that conversation. >> while i was teaching at a predominantly white liberal arts college and i taught with my college this particular history course and dr. salas asked why

are whites so opposed to us learning this true history? you know, the ugliness, the lynching, as well as times blacks and whites work together? and everybody was quiet and one young white man said very quietly, it's because white people are afraid that black people will do to us what we did to them. though, it makes more sense to not deal with it at all because if it becomes knowledge then the black folk will think well hey, they did it to us, we'll do it to them, which really is not consistent in the history of how african-americans have dealt with these situations. >> well, let me just say i think a lot of what is going on is the result of fear and people don't want to admit those kinds of things, you know, because they

fear that you're treading on my ground and this is my spot, so you stay out of it, you know. your spot is over there. you know, you don't deserve to be treated as a human. >> robert, i want to ask you if you're black in high school in mississippi, you're identity is still challenged by what you are reading in textbooks versus what you may have heard at home or reading elsewhere. what about being white in mississippi? what's the complexity of that heritage? >> yeah, you know, the thing for me growing up white, i had a pretty different experience than most people in my demographic background. i was raised in and around activist circles by white parents intentional about making sure i had a different sensibility than a lot of white guys born and raised in mississippi. i had a different perspective to begin with. i was raised in diverse public

schools and i know for a fact that it was, you know, within the white community it was known the fear that barbara and jean are talking about has really a fear of potential to lose power and that whiteness has meant power in this state and we can't talk about it because the fear is that this is a zero sum game if we give black people power, white people will lose power and you can't have both and it really is rooted in this deep insecurity bred over generations and really, we have to understand that the history of this place of this state and of race relations is a living history to the state. people are still deeply impacted. the kids in our schools. >> i think sometimes history and black communities is sanitized just as it is in america. it just wasn't the culture to

teach about white sup preliminary see and in fact, even today, white supremacy is one of those terms we'd don't use white supremacy in the fact there are efforts to maintain white supremacy. i think this long-lasting trama sits at the root of why we don't have some of these conversations. i remember my grandfather saying when you see white people, say yes, sir. i despise that today but what he went through and, you know, what he saw and some of the traumatic experiences that he had, just made me think about that may be one of the reasons that some of these untold truths are not spoken. >> i remember being, i think, i want to say like 8 going in a north park mall and my mom took me in victoria secret and i was board and i whistled to keep myself from falling asleep and all of a sudden, my mom grabbed

me frantic and said i need you to never do that again. i said what are you talking about? she said don't say anything, we'll talk at the car. she said have you heard of emmet teal? i said i don't know. i'm 8. i don't know about this. what i appreciate about my mom is she showed me who emmet teal was and was like that happened from whistling. she was like i understand you didn't know what we were doing but we were in victoria secret, which is a women's lingerie store and you're whistling. the woman that lied on emmet teal lied and said he was whis whistling. for me, imminently, i'm 8 and it was just like there is people out here that can hate you that bad to barb wire you and throw you in water to drown and you're 8 and for your mom, i'm looking at my mom to sit there and bury with me my casket open and have a viewing for people to see?

it felt different living here. it was like whistling was fun. i whistle now but it was like i catch myself noticing i'm in a public space and i stop. >> wow. >> and it's like -- >> just a normal instinct that anyone would have and you got an association with it. >> you have an association with it. >> an experience i had growing up when we get off the main highway to go to my parents' home, there was a lynching that happened in the woods and if i were on that road now would be to the right and to this day i don't travel it at night because of the fear that was instilled

in me. i'm out of there. >> a lot of people think that sun down but i can tell you it's not just here in mississippi it's not. there is a lot of things heads down generationally with black people, not dos and don'ts but the don'ts of being black, you know, there is ten minutes down the road madison i know i right here there is a movie theater in madison. one of the nicest in the area but madison isn't one of those places that you can go do at nighttime here in 2021. it's like the second you pull, you cross that madison county line, woop, woop, you getting pulled over. >> as a black person. >> as a black person, you cannot. when we talk about the struggles and how we are strong black

people, we're not diminishing the fact that any other race has been through anything. what we're saying is a lot of racists haven't been through what we've been through and what we're still going through, a lot of people think that's the thing of the past. it's current. the things that they were going through then, we're still going through now. so until we find a way to not fix but begin to mend what is going on is we're still going to be going through the same struggles the same struggles, the same struggles. >> we have time limitations on this show. we have so much in that conversation we need to hear. i'll post it to my social media account and give a big thank you to all six of those folks for coming out this week and taking the time to make us all a lot smarter and more inciteful when it comes to this topic. coming up next, tragedy in the

desert. the lace the latest on the deadly onset shooting involving alec baldwin. shooting involving alec baldwin. ♪♪ hi mr. charles. we made you dinner. aww, thank you. ♪♪ frequent heartburn? not anymore. the prilosec otc two-week challenge aww, thank you. is helping people love what they love again. just one pill a day. 24 hours.

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one injured. >> reporter: overnight a vigil held in albuquerque, new mexico to remember halyna hutchins who died after ale baldwin fired a gun declared safe. he was seen comforting her husband and son, countless unanswered questions and the potential for serious legal consequences. nbc learned days before the tragic day of shooting, the gun was involved in other accidental misfires. "the l.a. times" said baldwin's stunt devil fired two rounds after being told the gun was cold, not loaded the same thing yelled out moments before baldwin shot and killed hutchins, injuring the film's director and a crew member telling the "l.a. times" there should have been an investigation into what happened and there were no safety

meetings or assurance it wouldn't happen again. all they wanted to do is rush, rush, rush. hours before hutchen's tragic death, several crew members walked offset. "rust" production company said it was not notified of any official complaints. >> a charge of negligent homicide is likely but not necessarily for the person that pulled the trigger, more likely for those in the chain of command. >> reporter: new allegations against dave halls, the assistant director responsible for safety onset and the man that handed baldwin the loaded gun. licensed pyro technician failed to maintain a safe environment when she worked with him on a previous project. >> basically yelling at people we need to get things done and ignoring people when they say they need a minute to do something safely. >> reporter: she raised concerns about halls to production but nothing happened. >> same things that happened on our show happened here with more

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a person should be able to tell their doctor anything that relates to their own health. but a 2015 poll by the national

center for transgender equality showed that only 40% of transgender americans were out to all of their healthcare providers. now, the reason for such a low rate of transparency is because discrimination against trans americans is real is pervasive. trans people are often misgendered in medical settings. and even when they find a person who embraces their gender identity, those providers don't always understand conspire specific set of needs. a new clinic in western massachusetts is now the first rural transgender health facility in the country. it's also one of the first healthcare organizations to be run entirely by trans people and to focus exclusively on transgender care. whf asked what she hoped to achieve by opening this clinic, the ceo told the 19th quote, the dream is to create that space

where people can be authentic and co-creative and generative. joining me now is the chief executive officer of trans health northampton. dallas, good to see you. thank you for being with us this morning. for those of us who don't understand, why is being out to all of your healthcare providers important? how does it affect someone's healthcare? >> sure. well, first and foremost, it just means the ability to show up and be authentic and be yourself and have a safe space where you can actually discuss your medical concerns. but to do that and to be able to be out to your provider, you have to feel safe, and it has to be an environment where you're able to be yourself. and that has downstream consequences on your physical health, what organs are assessed, for example, your mental health, the minority stress you might internalize, and whether you actually just feel safe enough to show up in primary care.

and from the data we know that if people don't feel safe to show to their primary care providers, then they're going to wait, and then that issue turns into an emergency down the line which only increases the cost to the healthcare system and also the cost to the body. >> there's a thing i want to take out of the article in "the 19th." a mother, lisa remembers when a quick appointment for an ear infection or back-to-school checkup doubled as a dance around daniel's pronouns, less she confuse the doctors about her transgender son or worse, risk being reported for child abuse for affirming him. quote, it was stressful to go to the doctor, she recalled. i think this is interesting when you mention that if you can't be your authentic self and the doctor doesn't know all of the details, things might actually

be misdiagnosed because, as you said, organs are different. >> yes, organs are different, people miss things. and the fact of the matter is we know there's a phenomenon called trans broken arm system where nurse practitioners, doctors, whomever, will look at the identity and focus on the identity rather than actually treat the broken arm. and there are examples of people not being treated in different care settings because a provider, generally a cisgender provider, war so focused on someone's identity rather than just providing the medical care that they needed. so sometimes people get so tripped up on working with someone that they just don't understand that they fail to actually do their job. and that's what we're trying to change by hiring trans people and by creating a space that is truly affirming and sees you so you don't have to explain yourself when you walk in. but you can just be yourself and get the medical care that you would expect anywhere. >> it's great that you're doing

this at trans health northampton. how scalable is this? is there a standard of practice that you are developing or that has been developed that can be applied on a national level or best practices for doctors who don't run a trans-specific healthcare clinic but may be in other areas of medicine in which it's useful to understand what it is you've learned from your patients and your experience? >> well, as a trans woman myself, i know one of the best ways to scale this is to hire transgender diverse individuals. but we started during the covid pandemic. we saw through covid. there was a massive expansion of access to healthcare through telehealth. and we were able to do that across new england. then throughout covid we actually had to restrict it based on changes to state laws and executive orders. so we are advocating to really work to change telehealth laws to expand access to gender diverse care, to gender affirming care. but also along with the advocacy, one of our core

pillars is education. and we are already starting to welcome in interns, residents, different clinical students to be able to come here, be able to learn from us. and we hope to one day see a trans health phoenix, a trans health anchorage, a trans health richmond just like trans health northampton. >> i think you helped make clear to us things that some of us didn't even understand were issues. so thank you for the work you are doing at trans health northampton. we appreciate the time that you're taking to make us smarter about this. all right. go nowhere. we're just getting started on this sunday morning. the very latest about what you need to know about president biden's big spending bill and where it stands at this moment in the senate. another hour of "velshi" begins right now.

and good morning to you. it is sunday, october the 24th. i'm ali velshi. news came out just an hour ago that president biden will host senator joe manchin and senate majority leader chuck schumer at his home in delaware this morning. the trio will continue talks about biden's multi-trillion-dollar build back better plan. and i will talk to senator sherrod brown about where the bill is going. but first the wide-ranging investigation into the capitol insurrection. it hole voted to hold former trump chief strategist steve bannon in contempt. the contempt proceedings offered some insight into the committee's investigation. the committee referenced