>> you're right. that's almost always the right answer and you know, artists may be in touch with their flaws, that's something we can all learn from them. so shutout to the boss and other boss michelle obama. that does it for us. "the reidout" with joy reid starts now. >> wouldn't you have loved to be in the room for the whole side and background conversation? i mean, come on. that is amazing. thank you very much. >> my answer is yes. [ laughter ] >> yes. all right. thank you very much, ari, have a great evening. good evening. we begin "the reidout" with "beloved." it tells the story of a run away enslaved woman named seth who kills her baby daughter to spare the child from a traumatic life in bondage. it's been regarded as a masterpiece. it impossible to understand the literarily landscape or high

school english class without it. the book set both in the reconstruction era and preemancipation flash backs recounts the horrors of slavery and the impact on the black psyche. but apparently, for some white parents, the real pain isn't about black people, no, no. the pain is actually about them. their feelings. back in 2013 one white parent advocated banning "beloved" from virginia schools because it gave her son, then a high school senior nightmares. that parent, appeared in a new ad monday but the republican running for governor of virginia glenn youngkin who wants to ban teaching critical race theory, it is only taught in law schools, not public schools. he wants to ban "beloved" too. it tells you everything you need

to know about the republican playbook. glenn trumpktrumpkin -- i'm sor glenn youngkin is endorsed and acting moderate enough to try to snag those suburban swing voters. it's happening there and throughout the country like new jersey with republicans trying to seize control based on playing on the delicate feelings of conservativish white suburbans. the tactic is nothing new. the republicans have simply followed trump's lead pouring high octane gasoline on cultural anxiety over jobs and societals change and weaponiing anything that makes white christians feel icky; which is a lot like losing a fair election and not getting to have the president they wanted. like having to engage in our actual history because let's

face it, this isn't a war against critical race theory but facts and knowledge. which is why they want "beloved" out with children's book about martin luther king junior, ruby bridges and rosa parks. dido on the masks and vaccines because it trusts your right to live. this is why we see kay ivy of alabama do a 180 on vaccines once blaming the vaccinated on the rise of covid to order state agencies to fight federal vaccine mandates and it's why texas abortion bounty hunter greg abbott is now going after trans youth playing sports in schools about trans girls kicking a soccer ball in elementary school despite there being zero evidence. in the end, it's about throwing that let's go brand and anti biden red meat to the base that brings us back to fragile white feelings being used to win purple states and suburbs.

remember, donald trump lost the election in the suburbs. the voters, women fled from trump in his party as their lives were up ended by covid. the republicans may not want trump back but they definitely want his voters and the only thing scarier than trump in the white house tormenting him and the rest of us is having to feel badly about anything. joining me is editor at large and senior advisor to lincoln project and michelle goldberg. i suspect aaron haynes, my friend, you have feelings about this idea of banning the book "beloved" because it makes not the black people that have to go through and relive the drama of enslavement and post enslavement and the fact that she would rather have her child die than be a slave, it's the feelings of the white parents that we must ban this book. your thoughts? >> joy, "beloved." it is an american classic,

right? think about the trama that many blacks may have felt reading "to kill a mockingbird." one of my favorite books. the reality is there a full blown murder in the book and near lynching. that happened in that book and yet, sweatily regard that as a cherished american classic not to be challenged in a anyway but the racial playbook is not limited to the big lie of a rigged election or voter fraud. race based appeals to white voters are an increasingly perennial aspect of gop politics and one, you know, not that the former president, he latched on to that. this is not something republicans were following the former president and it's something that he recognized was an effective tool. he capitalized on in his elections to his success and the other not so much. even if it didn't work in the presidential level in 2020, it has worked in the past down ballot which is why it continues.

race stokes fear among white voters that can be very motivating and it also works to galvanize black and brown and other minority voters. this is why you're seeing democrats using surrogates until the biggest star power to vice president harris from president barack obama to voting rights champion stacey abrams and new jersey trying to sure up black voters as glenn youngkin is simultaneously trying to tell black voters terry mcauliffe isn't the person for them because he doesn't support hbus and saying he would do this. glenn youngkin in virginia is trying to have it both ways in a race that will be super tight, where we've already soonerly soonerly early voting off the

charts of that state with a few days to go. >> stewart, talk a little bit about this. let me actually play a little lincoln project ad as we have you here. here is the ad lincoln project is running about this race. >> the choice is stark. glenn youngkin is donald trump's candidate, anti-semitism, racism, deny gay couple the rights to marry, charlottesville hate. terry mcauliffe believes in a different virginia working together rejecting hate. which virginia do you believe in? don't let donald trump win. >> and "the washington post" editorial board went in on him saying youngkin has ran financial republican campaigns and conservatives in swing vote suburban moderates and lie that last year's presidential election was stolen and the american election is about top captured and youngkin is

subverting the system for the truth. everyone sort of shushed him out as a closet trump-kin. what do you make of the way he's running and the way republicans are trying to steal back suburbs by saying to white parents you have to fear books about black people or white people having done anything that wasn't amazing? >> ultimately, this is all about race. i wrote a book about this caled "it was all a lie." we used to as republicans admit this and try to change, at least. i men, ken melvin went before the naacp in 2005 and apologized for the strategy. all that is out the window now. this is a straight up simple race. donald trump lost virginia by ten points on november 3rd, 2020. if you didn't vote for donald trump november 3rd, 2020 why would you vote for him on

november 2nd, 2021? he's trump's candidate. this issue over the only african-american woman to win the noble peace prize, noble literature prize just embodies all of these things. it's about denying what you were saying. it's about race. and look, what is this about cancel culture? they're trying to cancel african-american noble literature? it shows the complete fraud nature of the entire republican. >> the question, michelle, i guess, is will it ssucceed? is there enough anxiety in white suburban moms that they will say "beloved" is a bridge too far. i can't have my child reading about things that have slavery look like anything but wonderful. anyway, go on. >> my guess is that actually, this "beloved" gambit is going

to backfire because i think part of the campaign against critical race theory works by sort of saying what it is they're talking about. you know, they will make it out as if there is these kind of reeducation sessions going on in elementary schools. i think that glenn youngkin has done us a favor by telling us this is what they're talking about. they're talking about banning tony morrison. they're talking -- they've been talking about banning all sorts of, you know, sort of historical the legitimate teaching of history. this isn't about, you know, kind of browbeating your kids about white privilege. this is about giving them a well rounded education. you know, similarly, glenn youngkin and his surrogates have been demagoguing about trans kids in schools and trans

bathrooms and there was a horrible rape of a high school girl in virginia that they've been using and sort of exploiting to act as if trans people are predators and we now know today that actually it had sort of nothing to do with, you know, gender fluidity or people using the wrong bathrooms and it was a date rape situation, sort of dating violence situation. and i think it's good that it's coming out before the election. so to take them together these two incidents, i think should reveal, you know, maybe not the big lie but some of the big lies behind the glenn youngkin campaign. >> yeah, i wonder, there is a m is this waking up that electret?

>> again, that's why you're seeing democrats pull out the heavy hitters, you know, in the home stretch of this election. president obama being there, president biden going there. vice president harris going there, stacy abrams going there and on and on and at least if the early voting totals are to be believed, that is helping to sure up black voters because we know that these are the voters that are getting disillusioned with the governing that they've seen in the wake of the records they helped to propel to get democrats elected in november. i was just reading a hit strategy focus group report that showed that black voters are wanting democrats to fight harder for the issues that they care about and they're disappointed that's not happening and so to offset that kind of trying to remind using these types of people to remind voters what the stakes are in a race that is going to be very tight and that has already probably exhausted a lot of

virginia voters. only a few more days of those ads. >> and start voting -- the ads are relentless if you live anywhere near virginia. stewart, let's put up a map of the 36 gubernatorial races in 2022. republicans are playing everywhere. they are playing hard. they went for california and tried for it. how success -- i mean, if they succeed in taking back states that tend to vote democratic in presidential years, states like virginia, states like new jersey. is there any doubt in your mind that those governors, i don't care what they're pretending to be now will use their positions to try to take the election for trump if he runs in 2024 including youngkin? >> yeah, sadly, i think not. this is what donald trump who couldn't name a governor in america a few years ago is so interested in governors. it's because they know that they can pass laws, they're going to try to pass laws that if the states are close in 2024, they're going to try to overturn

the election with these republican legislatures. there is not really any secret about this. they've made it clear this is all part of a sort of concentrated strategy and again, it's mostly about race. what was the effort to deny certification? it was based upon those areas that were so mysterious that were mostly black and supposedly illegal voting. it's because the country is changing and republicans had a basic choice. they could adapt and appeal to the non-white voters or they could try to make it harder for non-white voters to vote and tragically, they have taken that path. >> and michelle, i wonder what it means for the way that the democratic party behaves if the other parties made it very clear that they want to be a white interest party and that they're not hiding that anymore. they're a white interest party. have the democrats responded to that in a strong way to be more of a defense of everyone else

party? have they done that in a strong enough way in your view? >> i think they haven't done it in a strong enough way but they are somewhat ham strung but the incredible narrowness of their majority. i understand white voters that mobilized in large numbers to get rid of trump and put biden in the white house why they would be disappointed at the legislation we haven't seen so far including voting rights legislation. at the same time, this is less about the failures of the democratic party and more about the stubbornness and kind of bipartisan anile list m as i've called it in the past of joe mansion and kyrsten sinema who have sort of made it clear including joe mansion's case, it's not clear he'll fight for his own voting rights legislation never mind a broader voting rights package. and so, you know, look, it's very difficult thing when you have to be in a democratic system, when you have a democratic party and an anti

democratic party to uphold democratic norms single handedly. >> yeah, indeed. indeed. aaron haynes, stewart stevens, michelle goldberg. thank you-all very, very much. tony morrison was the greatest novelist in american history, period. i'll leave that there. up next on "the reidout" getting the very richest americans to pay their fair share of taxes. also, mo brooks says it wasn't me but maybe it was my staff. classic washington butt covering as more becomes known about his actions leading up to the capitol insurrection. plus, a stunning report on sexual assault at liberty university and how administrators threaten to punish students who reported being raped. tonight's absolute worst, allowing dangerous information to be spread to passfy the orange baby in the white house. "the reidout" continues after this. "the reidout" continues after this

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for the first time in the months that democrats have been negotiating, kyrsten sinema has come out in support for the build back better plan as they announced the corporate minimum tax plan that would report more than $1 million in profits to pay a 15% tax rate. sinema said this represent as common sense step for the highly profitable corporation that can avoid the current corporate tax rate just as everyday arizoians and small businesses do. all right then. nothing is definitive. democrats are likely to move forward with this plan as well as a billionaire tax, that tax would affect 700 taxpayers aplaying to people that have at least $1 million in assets or make $100 million per year for three years in a row. it calls on taxes on the increased value of their assets

rather than on their income. elon musk tweeted eventually that will run out of other people's money and come for you. mitt romney joined to say oh, no, the billionaires might not invest in the stock market. >> if there is some people getting around the law somehow, a loophole, fix the loophole but don't create a new tax to encourage high income people not to invest in starting businesses, not to invest in the stock market and create more jobs here. that is a serious mistake. >> and then there is grim reaper mitch mcconnell saying the quiet part out loud people that don't have vast sums of money have themselves to blame. and shouldn't be helped. did i mention he married into money? >> this scheme would have the irs penalizing people that

invested wisely and compensating people who have invested poorly. >> he invested wisely in marrying a really rich woman. with me is robert, former labor secretary under president clinton and policy at the university of california berkeley. i would like to give you the opportunity in a much less snarky way to respond to these wealthy men in the senate that say if you tax wealthy people, they will stop investing, they will stop investing in the stock market and take their money, roll it up in a ball and hide it under their pillows. your thoughts? >> in other words, a strike by the wealthy. is that what we're talking about? >> a strike, yeah. >> well, you know, they have been threatening that for years. every time there is a proposal to increase taxes on the wealthy and by the way, the wealthy, the tax rates keep on going down both on the wealthy and on big corporations, joy. every time there is a proposal to increase them, they talk about strikes. they're not going to invest. they're going to hold back their

money. well, the reality is they've got to put their money somewhere. they could put it under their pillow but doesn't return much of a return under their pillow so they're going to go into the stock market and go somewhere with their money. that's really a red herring. >> you tweeted earlier that if you could afford to go to space, you're like hear me out, if you can afford to go into space for 30 minutes on a space tourism thing, you can probably afford it in taxes, last year according to cnbc the top 1% dodged $163 billion in annual taxes. that's an estimate by the treasury. when that money isn't collected, somebody still has to pay for the things that we do in this country. who ends up making up for it? >> well, that's a very important point because you and i and other people who are not billionaires, we are the ones who have to pay the taxes that the top people don't pay. i mean, with elon musk, for example, who earned, what was

it? $36 million yesterday? yesterday? >> yesterday. >> 36 billion. what he says in response to this plan of taxing billionaires, no, you must not do that because they will run out of money and come for you. what he doesn't address is if he is not paying his fair share, then we have to make up the difference. >> yes. let's talk about some of these ideas. i was going to read what marjorie taylor greene had to say but i don't take her seriously enough to read it. i'll skip that. this is the potential constitutional challenge. if a billionaire's tax actually happens, this tax would certainly face legal challenges given the clear incentive to spend millions of dollars in legal fees. the likely argument for you to address if you could, that taxing capital gains that have not been realized falls outside the income tax allowance in the 16th amendment. that's a complicated argument

that it's unconstitutional to tax gains someone hasn't cashed in and realized. what do you make of that? >> there is nothing to it. we have -- joy, we have a state tax and capital gains tax and a property tax. we tax wealth in all sorts of ways. so for people right now to say you must not tax wealthy, it's unconstitutional, it negotiates and overlooks the way we tax wealth. i mean, i can't predict what this supreme court, this supreme court is dominated by republican appointees, they couldn't say anything. we can't assume what they will do before they do it and constrain public policy in light of what they could do. >> i would love for you to talk about the corporate minimum tax, they're working on all these different ways to try to pay for the build back better plan but can you just talk about the -- you were labor secretary. i feel like nobody talks about the taxes ordinary people pay

every day. it's expensive to be broke, right? you're paying for so many things that cost you extra because you don't have a lot of money. can you talk about the way sort of the tax burden actually really does fall in weird different ways because of sales taxes and others on working people, no? >> absolutely. sales taxes are something that, you know, people, every time the income tax is talked about and wealthy people say you must not do that, they don't realize that sales taxes take a much bigger bite out of the incomes of poor and middle class people than they do out of wealthy people. elon musk doesn't -- his sales taxes are a rounding error and the rounding error of rounding error. it doesn't occur to him but poor people and middle class people pay a lot in terms of their typical dollars going to sales taxes or so-called simm taxes. there are so many taxes we pay. we may not realize it. i mean, look at the tax on your

gallon of gasoline, which is going supposedly going to roads. that is all of it. takes a bigger bite out of the middle and lower income people than upper income people. >> you can almost argue the lottery, too. poor people spend a lot of their disposable income between rent, child care and there is not a lot left at the end. as you said, elon musk doesn't need to purchase anything or pay sales tax. he doesn't have to buy anything. >> joy, this is interesting. what happens is if you have a huge amount of money like elon musk, you don't use your money to buy stuff. you basically borrow against your fortune and that really, that borrowing handles all of your expenses. i mean, this is why using a very narrow gauge income tax, i mean, last year jeff bezos, how much did he earn? $81,000. $81,000. >> on his w-2, yeah.

there's a reason the only time donald trump ever paid taxes was when he worked for the same company that i worked for, he worked for nbc and had a w-2. that's the only time he paid taxes. >> worked for nbc, right? >> what did you say? >> i said the -- [ laughter ] >> obviously, is if you were donald trump or you're elon musk or you're jeff bezos, basically, don't register that you have any income at all and by the way, this is the same thing big corporations are doing because -- >> absolutely. >> amazon last two years, amazon has basically said to its shareholders it's got $45 billion a year but it pays a tiny little -- >> exactly. >> percentage of that in taxes because it manipulates the tax code. >> it is a great conversation. i wish we could spend longer but we're literally out of time. they said stop, stop, we got to go to commercial to pay for all

of this. still ahead on "the reidout" a republican congressman saying he was involved in planning the january 6th insurrection throws his own staff under the bus saying if they were involved, he would be really proud of them but don't look at me. thanks a lot, boss. we'll be right back. thanks a lot, boss we'll be right bk.ac (burke) i've seen this movie before. (woman) you have? (burke) sure, this is the part where all is lost and the hero searches for hope. then, a mysterious figure reminds her that she has the farmers home policy perk, guaranteed replacement cost. and that her home will be rebuilt, regardless of her limits or if the cost of materials has gone up. (woman) that's really something. (burke) get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks. wait, i didn't ruin the ending, did i? (woman) yeah, y-you did. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪

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most recently "rolling stone" said brooks was among several republicans that spoke with an organizer and planner of the stop the steal rally. that report with ally alexander with the another planner of the rally. brooks is doing damage control planning the rallies for january 6th. in the process, brooks said he doesn't know whether his staff interacted with an organizer and protests because he had not spoken to him about it. he's claiming ignorance what his staff was up to while he runs for cover. brooks also added this, quote, quite frankly i would be proud of them if they did help organize a first amendment round to protest voter fraud and election theft as michael fanone

wants to identify any members of congress or staff that may have participated. >> i want to know if there were elected leaders, staff members who may have conspired in the activities of that day. i think that their constituents and the american people deserve to know if there were individuals who participated in sedition against this country. >> congressman, starting with mo brooks for a moment. he's somebody who tried to lie and cover up what happened on january 6th. he falsely claimed that there is growing evidence that antifa was involved and orchestrated to make trump people look bad, et cetera. he hasn't been an honest broker. what do you make of him throwing his staff under the bus. >> thank you, joy, for your

question. i'm proud my staff had nothing to do with the january 6th insurrection rally that led to the attack on the capitol. i want to know that mo brooks talked to his staff before the rally because he wore a bulletproof vest on january 6th. what did he know that none of us knew and what caused him to wear the bulletproof vest in advance? >> i wonder if he issued bulletproof vests to his staff? did he care enough about them to make sure they were protected. did you hear news about that? . >> i have not but since he threw his staff under the bus, i highly doubt he was prying to protect them. we're about a year from the last presidential election and mo brooks and republicans still cannot explain who stole the election nor how it was done because the election was not stolen, trump simply lost. >> i mean, the going theory of people like mo brooks seems to be that it's not possible that donald trump lost because he -- you know, joe biden's voters,

let's be frank were people of color and donald trump's voters were largely white and rural and looked like them. here is mo brooks back in 2014 explaining what he thinks is sort of the grand design of democrats in this country. >> this is a part of the war on whites that's being launched by the democratic party and the way in which they're launching this war is by claiming that whites hate everybody else. it's a part of the strategy that barack obama implemented in 2008, continued in 2012 where he divides us on race, sex, warfare, those things. >> that characterization is out of there. >> that is in effect what they're doing now. >> i think that phraseology may not be the best choice. >> i mean, what laura ingraham thinks you've gone too far on a racial topic, you might have gone too far. if the january 6th committee is

able to give us the facts, the fact you have members of congress that believe the democratic party is waging a war on white people and if that's their fundamental belief, i wonder what you think a very definitive report out of the january 6th committee. >> joe bide assembled a committee. >> they have white people, asian people, hispanic people, so mo brooks is simply is not telling the truth when they try to use the for and looking for is anyone that participated in the january 6th insurrection and planned it. they should have no place in congress. >> the white house said no to executive privilege. there is a contempt. the fight is on for that.

do you believe that members of congress should be subpoenaed, people like mo brooks should also be subpoenaed by the commission? >> absolutely. nobody should be above the law, not members of congress, not former white house staff and i note that in the nixon tapes case, the whole point of the supreme court decision is that you cannot use executive privilege to shield information if there are crimes involved and it's clear there are hundreds of crimes that are committed on january 6th, 140 police officers were injured. >> and indeed because you had officers injured and these are the same officers who protect the staff and protect members such as yourself, do you believe that people like marjorie taylor greene, mo brooks still justifying what happened on january 6th. do you believe they should be expelled from congress? >> marjorie taylor greene should not be in congress at all. if you look at her recent statement, she basically is saying that january 6th was

quote unquote just a riot. it was more than that. people died. police officers were brutalized. she also justified it saying that the decoloration, of independence was over throwing tyranny. we were breaking away from a monarchy and established the constitution of a republic the same one we had for hundreds of years. that was the same system we used and donald trump simply lost the electoral college and popular vote. marjorie taylor greene should not be in congress if she's still disputing the results of the election and try to justify the violent attack on our capitol. >> ted lieu, appreciate your time, sir. have a wonderful evening. coming up next, conservative liberty university is accused of mishandling and dismissing students reports of sexual assault and in many cases punishing those who came forward. who broke the story and a former

administrator of liberty join me next. administrator of liberty join me next

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liberty university is the largest private evangelical universities with a blue ridge mountains in lynchburg, virginia. the school founded by jerry falwell senior is accused of ignoring years of alleged sexual misconduct and punishing victims by breaking the moral code by reporting allegations. more than a dozen women sued the school saying liberty university created an atmosphere that increased the likelihood of sexual assault. propublica published a detailed investigation into allegations and the claims that the school did nothing about it. what they found is deeply troubling. interviews with more than 50 former liberty students and staffers and records for more than a dozen cases show how an

ethos of sexual purity has led to school officials discouraging, dismissing and blaming female students who have tried to come forward with claims of sexual assault. ten additional former students told the reporter that they chose not to report their rapes because they were afraid of being punished. liberty ignored the request for comment but the university senior vice president for communications scott lamb was so alarmed by the allegations that he urged the school to address the claims. lamb is now suing liberty climbing he was fired for his vocal opposition to a proposed strategy to confront the claims and for refusing to participate in an alleged coverup. the university spokesperson said lamb's advice on how to publicly respond to the title nine lawsuit played no role in his termination. joining me now is hanna, abrams reporting fellow for propublica and wrote the story i referenced and scott lamb, the former senior vice president at liberty university currently suing the

school. i want to start with you, hanna. this is a harrowing story. explain to us the punishment that these young women that came forward and reporting being raped received and what that was based on. >> sure. absolutely. so at liberty university, they have a strict student code of conduct they refer to as the liberty way and students have to sign this code of conduct when they first come to campus and it dill lean yates a way how they should fall to the christian expectation for the school and among the things that are not allowed are any sort of drinking, partying, but also, even consensual sex is against the school code and students do stand to be punished if they are caught engaging in consensual sex. the question then stands what happens if non-consensual sex happens on college campuses,

which it inevitably does. we're seeing students were punished for different violations of the liberty way when they came forward and said they had been assaulted or otherwise engaged sexually in a non-consensual context. so what we're seeing here is the cultural sexual purity and purity culture expanding to an extent that it affects women's ability to come forward and share what happened to them. >> let me be clear. does this purity policy in the liberty way apply to male and female students or just female students? >> good point. it does -- it's supposed to apply equally to both male and female students. however, in most of the cases that we looked at, women were the ones who were threatened

with punishment when they came forward with allegations. i will say that there were as well men students threatened for being punished for breaking the liberty way when they were involved in assault. so if somebody came forward and said i believe i was assaulted by this student, that student would be called in and held accountable for his supposed violation of the liberty way, whether or not he would be accountable for assault is still a question and in most cases, in all the cases we saw the men were not held responsible for the allegations of assault. >> exactly. in one case one of the young men sued the young woman who alleged that he assaulted her saying that he had disparaged him. is a harrowing story and scott, you were in the communications department there until october 6th. explain why you believe that you were fired. what is it they wanted you to say about what was happening? >> so, i love liberty

university. i'm the best friend and consider them to have in this matter. for the last eight months from january through august of this year, i've been giving interviews to the what i would call so-called independent investigation team set up after president resigned. they brought in an outside auditing firm that we were all told and the world was told, we're going to get to the bottom of everything. they called me to testify. give testimony about what i had seen and heard. i'd only been there since 2018. i've seen a lot. i never tell a lie and they asked me honest questions. i told them who was to blame in addition to jerry fallwell jr. the board of trustees and specifically the executive committee and specifically, the chairman of the executive committee who was my boss. so i indicted my own boss as the lawsuit shows, for failure to

actually be transparent in what was going on. i don't know the reasoning for that except perhaps to say reputation. so that's what my lawsuit alleges, that they were against full transparency. even while they told the world they were getting to the bottom of everything. >> requires university to report any accusations of sexual violence to a title nine coordinator. it seems to me the culture and this is for you, scott. it seems the culture was to say to the young women that you were violating these purity rules because you were at this party and the males involved were not responsible. but i don't see how that's any different from the way that jerry falwell jr. was treated there. that if you're a man, there's a wide parameter of sexual behavior that you're allowed to engage in and that's not the problem. it's only a problem for women.

it's no different from his attitude towards donald trump. there's 20 women who accused him of rape, but it's them. women are the problem. isn't the treatment these girls got at liberty literally the liberty university way from trump on down? >> i believe things actually happened to these victims and i don't know them personally. i don't know all their stories personally except for what's in the lawsuit. i believe them. and i spoke those words into executive leadership. i'm a senior vice president. i spoke those words. i believe this them. what i continued to get pushback from was, you believe them? how can you believe them? their stories are shaky. even after i was fired, i had a vice president call me up and say, what's your beef? the title nine victims weren't having a hearing. he told me, you don't really believe those stories, do you? this is the whole point.

fellow vps, not all of them. there's a whole handful that are as concerned as i am. they probably don't want to lose their jobs now that i've lost mine for saying so. we've got to have transparency. i call on liberty to hire rachel denholder to set up a true third party investigation. i also call on them to release all people under ndas because when these things have happened in the pass, if they release people, the house of cards is going to fall. that's what i allege in my lawsuit. >> my last question to you, then for hannah. do you believe that the culture at liberty university is permissive of male promiscuity and sexual violence and only sort of, you know, policing the sexuality of women? >> i'll have to say no. i have four sons in liberty university. they are now without tuition

because dad got fired. at any rate, they've got friends. i think probably the policing goes both ways. i don't, again, just anecdotally speaking in the current situation, it leans more towards policing the ladies. when people have had situations where they've been violated sexually, i don't think there's a systemic, there's a healthy system put into place. i think that those women and men have situations -- my son had a homosexual friend who's a student who was raped last year and he didn't report it. he's homosexual, so double whammy there. how's he going to report it? no way that's going to be reported. but it was off campus, but i think the university officials would probably say if it was off campus, it wasn't supposed to be on our records any way. that's what i have a problem with. >> hannah, as you looked through

this place in the documentary evidence that's in the extensive report, did you see a disparity in the way university culture treats the sexuality of women and whatever it is they're doing and the sexual behavior, including violent sexual behavior, of men? >> well, i mean what i can say is that i spent the last five months interviewing women and speaking to women about their stories and when i was initially researching this story, there was no gender divide. had there been cases of assault that a male felt had not been dealt with properly, i would have been more than willing to investigate that case as well. >> right. >> i think that statistically, men are less likely to come forward in the case of sexual assault so that is something to keep in mind as well. but in the case that i'm seeing,

the way the women were treated was that they had definitely put themselves in a situation where they were to blame for what happened to them. whether or not that would apply equally or differently to men students, i can't say because i did not speak with them about this specific experience. >> it is a harrowing story i think everyone should read. hannah, thank you very much. scott, thank you very much. appreciate both of you being here this evening and we'll be right back. right back everything felt like a 'no'. everything. but then ray went from no to know. with freestyle libre 2, now he knows his glucose levels when he needs to. and... when he wants to. so ray... can be ray. take the mystery out of your glucose levels, and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free. visit freestylelibre.us tonight, i'll be eating a club sandwich with fries and a side of mayonnaise. (doorbell rings) wonderful.

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you know what's the absolute worst? running out of time. but i promise you we'll do the absolute worst tomorrow. all in with chris hayes starts now. tonight on all in. a congressman goes from battling the mob to apologizing for it with a new defense. >> how could that shooting be justified? >> no, it was murder. >> tonight, a new look at how brutal the attack was and as the january 6th committee proceeds, letting the plotters get away. and more fallout from the facebook papers. why mark zuckerberg killed spanish voter language tools because