conference where we expect to hear more about a fatal movie set shooting involving alec baldwin. all of the details for the death of hutchins is on the table. the movie's assistant director, dave hall, said it was a cold gun holding no live rounds, beforehanding it to baldwin. was the prop firearm holding live bullets or blanks, and what was the situation. let's go in and listen to what they have to say about what kind of charging, if any, will be filed. they said everything is on the table, including the possibility of criminal charges.

it could also be civil issues at play here. >> good morning, everybody. welcome to the santa fe county sheriff's office. first and foremost, i would like to offer our condolences to the hutchens family, a speedy recovery to mr. suza, and continued safety to all of the men and women in the film industry. at 1:48 p.m. we were dispatched to bonanza creek ranch. the first deputy arrived at 2:00 p.m. it was later determined that halayna hutchins and joel suza had been shot while rehearsing a

scene on the movie "rust." in the initial investigation it was determined that alec baldwin was the person that fired the weapon. we identified two other people that handled or inspected the loaded firearm prior to baldwin firing the weapon. these two individuals are hannah reid gutierrez and david hall. all three individuals have been cooperative in the investigation and have provided statements. other the last few days our investigative team has been working diligently to conduct interviews, execute search warrants, and collect and process evidence from the scene. we determined there was a limited amount of movie set staff in the area where the incident took place. although there was approximately

100 people onset. through the execution of search warrants we collected about 600 items of evidence. these include, but are not limited to three firearms. approximately 500 rounds of ammunition, and several pieces of clothing and accessories. we believe that we have, in our position, the firearm fired by mr. baldwin. this is a firearm that we believe discharged the bullet. we also believe that we have the spent shellcasing from the bullet that was fired from the gun. the actual led projectile has been recovered from the shoulder of mr. suza. it was recovered by medical personnel where he was being treated and turned over to the sheriff's office as evidence. we regard this specific spent casing and recovered projectile

to be the live round fired from the revolver by mr. baldwin. we recovered what we believe to be possible additional live rounds onset. all of the previously mentioned items along with other items of evidence will be submitted to the fbi crime lab in quantico, virginia for analysis. we are working thoroughly through all of the facts of the investigation, we continue interviews, and further analyze and process the evidence. i want to ensure the victims, their families, and the public. right now the investigation will not comment on charges at this point. the investigation will continue

and if the sheriff office determines during our investigation a crime has occurred and probable cause exists, arrest, an arrest or arrests will be made and charges will be filed. otherwise we will complete our investigation and turn in our evidence to the district attorney for review. before turning it over to the district attorney, i would like to thank my investigations division for their hard work in this case. ems, recc, and the local fbi office for their support and assistance in this case. also, the district attorney's office staff that has been working side by side in this case. first, i want to introduce mary

carmichael. i have the district attorney and my district includes santa fe. i want to send my condolences to the family, and friends, and all of those in the film community. i also want to thank the santa fe county sheriff's department for so thoroughly and actively investigating this incident. we appreciate your hard work and together we will ensure that this investigation is held to the highest standards. i speak to the prosecutorial perspective here, and i must emphasize that a complete and thorough investigation is critical to d.a. review. we take the facts and the evidence and we connect it to new mexico law and we're not at that juncture yet. if the facts, evidence, and law support charges then i will

initial prosecution at that time. i'm a prosecutor that was elected in part because i do not make rash decisions and i do not rush to judgment. i rely on facts supported by evidence, cooperative and credible witnesses, and i cannot stress the importance of allowing the santa fe county sheriff's office to continue their investigation that is serious and complex. at this point we will open it to questions. >> based on the witness interviews, can you tell us -- >> so i think what we learned second-degree that we suspect that there was other live rounds found on the set. i won't comment further on how they got there. i won't comment on how they got

there, but we suspect they are there. that will be determined when testing is done by the crime lab as to whether or not they are officially live rounds or not. >> that is what we're trying to determine. the people that inspected or handled the firearm when it was loaded before it got to mr. baldwin we're interviewing. there is follow up question that's we need to do. there is further investigation and interviews and we're going to determine how that happened and if they should have known there was a live round in that firearm. >> have they found live rounds in other guns? >> no, i said there was a total of 500 rounds of ammunition nap is a mix of blanks, dummy rounds, and what we are

suspecting are live rounds. >> the projectile in the shoulder was a led projectile. whether or not it was fired from that firearm, there will be riflings and things will be tested and compared. there is a lot of testing to be done into that is what we suspect. >> who pulled the trigger? as a producer on the movie does he face the potential of criminal charges? >> that may be a question better answered by the district attorney. >> all options are on the table at this point. i will not make comment on

charges. we will have to complete a more thorough investigation. no one has been ruled out at this point. >> sheriff. >> he is the person that fired the weapon, so we will continue to interview and get the evidence and the facts of the case and get the witnesses and the facts and information. he is an active part of this investigation as of right now, everybody is cooperating with interviews and daytimes. >>. >> basically there is a lot of

interviews that need to be done. there was a limited about of people with the movie staff that were in the vipt of the incident. so there is also about 90 people on the movie set itself. so there is a lot of interviews that need to be noting around, and it is our job to figure out if they are facts or rumors. >> we consider the bullet lye, it did fire from the web and it caused the death of mrs. hutch ins and mr. suza.

that is up to the district attorney to determine how much that will weigh in, but there will be some other incidents, on further sets and whether or not there was further issues and we encourage them to call the sheriff's office with any information they may have so we can get a good idea of what the totality of the circumstances are on this set and what is happening in the industry. >> that is something that will play into our legal analysis when we get our investigation, it could play into whether or not the charges get filed or

not. >>. >> can you speak broadly to what it comes to for an accidental shooting? >> when we get to that point, yes, i will speak to it. i don't know that we're at that point yet. we can't say it was negligence. when we get to that point, yes, i will speak to that. >> can you tell us what type of gun was used? can you address that? >> there has been a lot of chatter about were they target practices earlier in the day or the day before, can you talk about that? >> i will talk in reference to the caliber of the weapon faired

by mr. baldwin. that was f lee ppietta. >> sheriff, what about the other guns you recovered, any other live bullets in any of the other give ups including the one that you recovered from alec bald baldwin. >> three firearms were located on the set. we're still going to determine by extending it to the crime lab. the other is a single action army revolver. it looks like there is a modification to the cylinder and it may not be functioning.

the other is a plastic nonfunctioning revolver. >> sheriff, the revolver used -- >> i won't talk about specifics, but we're going to do our best to track those down. >> sheriff, for clarity. >> there was a search warrant issues for camera footage. there was camera footage, but not of the actual incident. >> for clarity, will his role as a producer factor into the

investigation, how much responsibility do you think he will actually have as a producer and how this influences -- >> i think once we gather all of the statements of fact, once we do all of the interviews, that will be weighed by the district attorney to see what weight that will different in reference to our decision. >> sheriff, sheriff! >>. >> just generally, he has been cooperative in this investigation. >> i won't comment on my perception of his demeanor. is it a live round or suspected live round.

>> i will say it is suspected, and it caused injury, so that leads us to believe it was a live round. >> just to the idea of public safety. i'm just cur us why about your thoughts about the real weapons on the sets of movies. >> i think the industry has had a record recently of being set. i any there was some complacency on this set. and i think it will need to be addressed, but i will leave it. >> do you have someone that fired a gun, clearly it was accidental you thought it was a cold gun but other people loaded that give up, not the person that fired it, but the person that loaded it, could they be held lime?

>> no. >> it is a complexion case. it will require legal research, analysis, and that is what we're here for. that said we don't know how that will play in until we get that investigation. >> sheriff, sheriff, per the guidance -- >> we will leave that up to the office to determine, but it is apparently the same round. >> sheriff, could i ask you -- we're aware of those statements, and we're investigating whether or not that is true or not true. and i encourage anyone that has

any information that has knowledge of the firearm being fired off set, please come forward. >> two of the three guns were functioning. >> you said two of the three guns appeared to be nonfunctioning on that table. what do you think unfolded that afternoon? >> i think the facts are clear. a weapon was handed to mr. baldwin. the weapon was functional, and fired a live round killing miss hutchins and mr. souza. >> they all said that live rounds should never be set but there clearly was. so this feels almost like a false statement. if the armor is going to say there should never be a live round, but there was, what is

your next step? >> we know there was one live round onset. we're going to determine whether or not we suspect there was other live rounds but right now we're going to determine how they got there and why they were there. they should not have been there. >> is alec still in next or is he -- >> sorry, who are you asking about? >> he has been cooperative, i'm not exactly sure of his whereabouts. >>. >> i won't talk about the specifics of that. that is still being investigated. >> was there multiple rounds in that weapon? >> i will stay away from an

actual timeline. there is several individual that's need to be interviewed. from those interviews comes new information that we need to track down. i don't want to put a time line on it, i want everyone to know that we're working to wrap this up thoroughly and completely. and so there is no time line. we want to get all of the facts and all of the statements. >>. >> we have. >>. >> as questions come up, other information comes to light, there may be follow up interviews. i expect that we might want to reinterview. >> you said there was a small number of people in the area where it happened, why is it taking a week to get all of the interviews done. >> there was a small number of people within the set area.

they had been interviewed. i'm talking about 100 people on scene in different areas. those people in close proximity to the incident have been intent. >> just for clarity, was there other live rounds in the chamber? >> not that we're aware of. >>. >> the sheriff used the world complacency onset. how many do you have to go beyond complacency to get to criminal negligence. >> i'm not going to answer hypotheticals today. there is a bridge, but it takes many more facts before we goat that. >> complacency -- >> i can't say that without specifically legally researching

that, but my off the cuff sans no. >> what is view of such complacency on a movie? >> any time there is firearms involved, safety is paramount. any time a firearm is around or about, safety is paramount. i don't let my emotions get involved, this is an investigation and we rely on the facts, thank you. >> the investigation that i received from the detectives, they are in the vicinity of where the incident took place. thank you for all of your questions, i think that is all of the questions. >> we got a lot of investigation

there. joining me now yasmine in santa fe, danny sabalis, and movie industry armorer clay vansickle. danny, let's go through a couple thicks we heard. there was a projectile in the a victim's shoulder. he said there was live rounds, that there was live rounds, and that there was other live rounds including dummy rounds as part of all of that recovered from the set. they recovered the firearm they believe covered and fired the projectile and that evidence is

being forwarded to the fbi lab for further analysis. what am i leaving out here? what is the significance of what he said today? >> the significance is that the sheriff is playing this very close to his vest and doing it in a very conservative way. we only know there was for sure one live round because there was a fatality. that number, 500, is very significant. the 500 other pieces of am mun in addition he will not opine on those because he is waiting for the tests to come back from quantico. but i think if you read between the lines of his answer it's will be significant in his analysis, how many of those rounds were actual live

ammunition. i think that will factor in heavily to the analysis. >> that was his opinion, but he talked about complacency and the questions here, are we talking about civil suits against the company? probably the producer? one of the producers, of course, is alec baldwin. or is it criminal negligence here. >> i don't think there is any way to look at it without coming to a conclusion that there was a his temperature ig failure from the top all of the way down in failing to follow very basic safety policies. the fact that you would have one live round intermingled. it is inexplicable, and there was not another way, and i believe grossly negligent.

the distinction is in the civil case. i don't think there is any doubt that there was some intelligence. allowing the live round to get into a firearm. >> the armorer, and alec baldwin, they were in an important position, but let's talk about that and something that you know a lot about. and she was inexperienced. she was 24 years old. what red flags were there for you? >> she was so inexperienced and

under qualified. qualifications, experience, let me say that again, experience, is the biggest safety factor an armorer has to know what is going to happen before it happens and to know all of the protocols and the safety systems that we have had in place. we fired millions of rounds safely. accidents like this cannot happen. >> yasmine, you and i have covered so many stories over the years. concerning the safety on movie sets, but this just stands out. alec baldwin is highly recognizable, and he has had so much recognition. a producer, an actor, clearly some of the normal protocols

were not followed about live ammo on the set. >> yeah, clearly andrea. i have to say having followed this story in the last week or so, i'm surprised that the investigation is not further along than it is. we have a lot of questions out there and not necessarily a lot of answers. even hearing from the sheriff, not wanting to say that yes, this was a live round, i expect it was a live round, but yes, in fact it was a live round, getting the full and complete investigation to make sure that it doesn't overstep but i think it is surprising to hear it was a live round. and they are saying everything is still on the table and this is something she has been consistent with from the beginning. and that this will be a long pain staking investigation considering the folks that are

involved in this investigation, as you mentioned. so many saw what took place that day, and the way those events unfolded, you speak about the armor only 24 years old as you mentioned. it was only the second time she was an armorer on a set. it is hannah gutierrez reed, right? it was david hall who had been fired from another movie set in 2019 because of negligent handling of a firearm. and then subsequently there was a lot of questions and answers and it will likely go on for weeks.

>> indeed. danny i thought that you mentioned that the sheriff was being very conservative. anything that you say now, they could affect the evidence as they go through this, but i thought that was interesting. >> that was a very well asked question. the district tour here where he essentially concedes there was complacency. it doesn't rise to the level of negligence, but it is a good starting point.

they may have been negligent, but the lesson that we learned, they were killed onset, even if they were deferent pieces of intelligence and it was the inquiry of whether or not they disregarded a known risk. there is giving rise to a massive civil lawsuit, but it may not rise to the level of rimalty. >> how much training do actors get in how much would they have been told about how to handle the weapon? how much practice with what they

do, and the practice even is supposed to be with blanks. so how did live ammo get in there? how unusual would this be? how well would he have been trained. we don't know how much experience he had in westerns or anything that might involve using a weapon. >>. >> that will definite on the show. they are playing with a swat team member, but someone with request mr. baldwin's career he has spons of experience with weapons. i think throwing any blame at mr. bald win is premature as he was trying to trust the system in place that has been in place for a long time. the armorer and the safety

coordinators. an assistant directly is not the person that should be handing a weapon to a actor and saying it is cold and not doing any kind of check. >> i think we played it yesterday on the show showing that you know, it is only a few seconds to just go through the rounds and make sure that that gun is safe. >> right. it is literally this, that is all the time it takes. >> and he has had, you know, no comment, he is not commenting at all on this briefing and it is a tragedy for everyone. it is over whelming for

halayna's family, and everyone involved, and for anyone involved in this kind of fatal accident. thank you all for your expertise. and i guess jeff harris, what would you, as a lawyer, be doing, as the plaintiff's lawyer right now? >> you want to start investigating this from the top down and the thing that i have not heard a lot about that i'm interested in is how who made the hiring decisions? there is some speculation that alec baldwin might be liable because he is a producer. the fact that he is a producer is somewhat meaningless. i want to know who made the decision to hire an armorer that was clearly unqualified. who made the decision to hire an

a.d. that had stuff in his impact that was a red flag, and who was in charge of the culture of safety on this set. i want to know who in the hierarchy of this production made some tragic incidents. >> thank you all for your help today in tragedy continues. against the clock, of course here in washington, the final push for an agreement on a massive spending deal just hours before the president depart first two overseas summits. we'll be back after a quick break on msnbc. k on msnbc ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need

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president biden is leaving for a overseas summit tomorrow.

he is still working on what to cut or keep in the package. they could face legal challenges that still won't raise all of the money that is needed. and there is still push back about bernie sanders demand for medicaid and medicare benefits. >> i'm truly devastated about the country. about the insolvency of the trust funds. i have a hard time increasing basic benefits that we can all agree that they would love to have this and that. >> our daily manchin fix. welcome all. garrett, fest to you. you're on bernie sanders watch today, they are telling nbc news

that all of the parts of the package seem to be destroyed. >> yes, we spoke about the spending side of the package being a problem for joe manchin, in many cases slightly problematic for other lawmakers as well. in the last 24 they rolled out two new problems. one is this corporate minimum tax that would require companies to report over a billion dollars in profit to pay a 15% minimum tax. and it is supported by sinema. but it is a second billionaires income tax that raises tons of questions. are there work arounds, but it has proponents and there is a

pretty active debate. there is not legislative text, and there is not a lot of there there yet when you mention the frustration. it is just at the rate level that have been discussed for so long as part of this panel and it has been destroyed. there is daily concerned about some spending elements of the plan. >> the president has a packed schedule and they're keeping the door open for potential talks today. he campaigned with terry mccauliffe and he has a trip abroad tomorrow. you also have an ongoing dispute between the head of the progressives, congresswoman

janet paul, and nancy pelosi on what is a frame work? is it a list? is it legislative text? >>. >> is just one more factor that could cloud down this process. first to what the president is doing here he will be reaching out to lawmakers. will there be meetings that remain to be seen. the takes are high for all of the withins that you laid out. he is going overseas tomorrow and the stakes could not be higher. they need a deal before he departs. the world leaders o so fest cased enough to come to their own conclusions about what commitments they may or may not

make. but just take that climate summit. he will be asking various world leaders to make commitments when it comes to climate and the optics could be difficult. you think about the domestic politics, the fact that he was out overnight campaigning for terry mccauliffe, that was next tuesday. they said that the president and lawmakers need to get into a room and work out their differences. it could have a difference next week. i spoke to voters, unaffiliated voters alike. they're frustrated with washington. could this cause one voter to pick one candidate other another that is not clear. but that is a possibility and

something that we may be watching for. the stakes are high on all sides, they're working the phones trying to twist the last minute elbows to get a deal. >>. >> what the democrats need in virginia is to narrow the gap between the dropoff. the dropoff between presidential turnout for both parties and an off year election. >> yes, and for president biden as well, this is the white house's decision, what they're referring to, they don't want it to be a referendum on success, but they will be looked at that way, and they did not end up elected terry mccauliffe. they are campaigning twice, and obviously you would like to see that be a big win. all of this is happening at the

same time. we were referring to the fact that he will fly back on tuesday and they are voting in virginia. and they will watching for progress on the hill and president bide listen be as well, and i can tell you as someone flying with him, they have not told us yet what time we're leaving. they're leaving lots of room for negotiation until the last minute. >> we know he has a plane, we know he can fly when he wants to. he has a hard deadline which is the meeting on friday with the pope. between then and there i guess you have to have were bags packed and be ready to run out to joint base andrews. on another point, there is enough the criticism an praise in some corners for kristin sinema. there had been rules that had

been changed on her behalf when she was first sworn in, but that vest really did it. the place set the social media on fire, kristin, please weigh in. male or female, i don't think it is a gender issue as much as a denim vest and the senate rules. >> for those of us that cover the senate, the dress code is as you posed there. business, that is typically the dress code on the floor as well. we have seen that slip recently. sometimes members come straight from the gym to cast a vote. i don't think is a progressive's chief complaint about senator sinema at that time. >> kristin and i, real quick, can some of the criticism is

really unfair for some of our women senators. some of them high profile ones as well. >> that's right and i think that is why this is such a delicate issue and certainly why yesterday it got so much attention, andrea. >> speaking of dress codes and sleeveless vests, getting shots in the arms of children, will they approve covid shots? this is "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. shots this is "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. really?! this nourishing prebiotic oat formula moisturizes to help prevent dry skin. one day? for real! wow! aveeno® healthy. it's our nature.™ i gotta say i'm still impressed. very impressed.

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only for a limited time. to learn more, go to sleepnumber.com. an fda advisory committee voted unanimously to recommend the pfizer vaccine for kids 5 to 11 years old given them a tailored smaller dose. the fda and cdc agree in the coming days, children in that age group could begin to get shots next week. joining us now is dr. vin gupta a critical care pulmonologist. dr. gupta, thanks for being with us. for parents who are hesitant and we're told about a third, some are dead set against, but a third are hesitant. what would you tell them to make them feel better about the safety of this vaccine? >> great to see you, andrea. i think i would start by trying to be as clear about the threat of covid to children, which it

has been confusing and i think pretty, that messaging has been a bit muddled. i'd offer facts like this. between august 1 and september 15th, 60,000 kids were hospitalized with covid. andrea, do you know how many kids are hospitalized in any flu season over the span of three to four months, 24,000. in a six-week period three times the number of kids required hospitalization from covid just earlier this year. it's serious. 800 children have died since the beginning of this pandemic from covid-19. a typical flu season, maybe in a really bad one, 200 children may die from the flu. that magnitude of seriousness about the threat that covid poses to children, i think we need to be clearer with parents on. lastly, i will just say the safety profile of this reduced dose of pfizer, andrea, is incredibly safe. it changes the narrative about the risk that these vaccines may

pose such as this risk of miocarditis and the mild inflammation of the heart muscle is just not present with this reduced dose for children less than 12 years of age. emphasizing the point here why you should get it for the health of the child and the safety profile and changing the narrative here is going to be really important for parents to have that conversation with people they trust. >> and among the people that they trust, of course, pediatricians high on that list. pediatricians getting flooded with from parents who want an appointment. do you expect a supply problem similar to what we saw for adults? >> i don't. the vial will have the normal concentration of the vaccine. the same vial can be spread out amongst more children because you're giving a smaller volume

reflecting that smaller dose for kids. so, if anything, i'm worried here that we're going to have a higher hill to climb when it comes to parent hesitancy for their kids. this is going to be a demand constraint not a supply constraint. the question i get from parents is, hey, doc, my kid had covid, mild symptoms. is he okay or is she okay? what we learned, andrea, in the last two to three weeks if you have natural recovery and you recovered from it those antibodies don't end up in the lungs and airways nearly as well as the antibodies produced from the vaccine. for whatever reason mother nature made it that the vaccine antibodies are actually in our front line. they're in the airways and lungs in the way that the natural antibodies don't seem to be present at a high enough concentration to provide you strong immimmunity. that is really a critical difference here. people relying on natural

protection. those antibodies are not where they need to be to prevent an infection. >> i want to ask you about the cdc guidance last night about people immuno compromised should be getting a fourth shot, another shot, a fourth booster. >> it's not surprising. we know that folks that are either older or advanced age or who have solid organ transplants require boosting for other vaccines. this is not surprising that every six to eight months we might need to provide the continual booster. the fact that they got a third shot and first in line for the third shot is not surprising that they're going to be first in line for a fourth shot here. this is not controversial. not surprising. very limited in scope to who this actually appies to, andrea. >> thank you so much, doctor, as always. >> thank you. that does it for us for a busy edition of "andrea mitchell reports." follow us online at mitchell reports and chuck todd and "mtp

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if it's wednesday, another avalanche of stories and revelation about the inner workings of facebook and the potential dangers the platform knowingly poses to its viewers. can our democracy and congress do something about the problem. the window for action might actually be closing. plus another white house meeting with joe manchin another potential sticking point in talks. another proposal to pay for it all and another self-imposed deadlock. still leaves democrats with the same question. deal or no deal. later we go the spotlight on some swing voters and how each party is targeting them in one key county that still has swing voters. with the success or failures of those efforts mean for the battle of control of congress.