maybe six or seven games. >> i think i agree with you that it's going to be hard. >> it's rare and i don't like to agree with you, but for this moment i will say thank you. >> we hope that nobody sees this. >> this is our last appearance. mike, we appreciate you being here. thank you getting up way too early and way too elderly for us this thursday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. last night the fda panel gave the green lights for kids for vaccines from ages 5 to 11. kids vaccines are the best way to prevent two things parents fear the most, covid and home-schooling. i don't know. kids you are getting the shot as

soon as next week. great timing, right? after they go door-to-door on halloween. you want to move it up two days, who's talking to who here? older kids can get pfizer and the younger kids can get moderna and the middle child can get johnson & johnson. >> good morning, welcome to "morning joe." it's thursday, october 28th. the sun has yet to come up for a lot of you though. it's time to wake up along with joe, willie and me, we have the two people you just saw at "way too early." the host of "way too early," jonathan lemire and msnbc's contributor mike barnicle . they're there. we promise. president biden is expected to make an experience at this morning's house democratic caucus before leaving europe. two people familiar with the plans tell nbc news, jonathan lemire, what do we know so far

about a framework of a framework for a framework or potential for a framework. >> first off, this is a shift in plan for the president. he's talking to white house aides, he's going to talk to the house side and particular try to sell progressives on the idea that they should vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill even if perhaps the larger reconciliation package is not yet done. they want to have this bill ready to go ahead of the gubernatorial election next week but also the president trip to europe. we expect to hear from him later today from the white house before he heads to air force one. he's going to give a speech there. there is a lot to be worked out here. there is real fights between democrats and in terms of what can fall in. the billionaire taxes are

uncertain. this is all stuff sorted out and rewriting the american tax codes. no easy lift. where us nancy pelosi and all this. is that going to be enough for them to finally pass a bipartisan infrastructure bill which is a huge mess of win in of itself. will it be enough for them? >> it remains to be seen. speaker pelosi is going to call a vote on the bill trying to force this issue today. progressives and democrats party have been really good loyal with this. the reconciliation bill now looks to be $1.75 trillion which is way down $6 trillion from what bernie wanted and way down from the $3.5 trillion that the

president proposed. they are hopeful that a broad attentive framework of certain elements of the bill and overall price tag will be enough for the president to support it. giving a president a win before he heads overseas. we should expect a lot of contentious drama up in the capitol. >> when we hear about bernie sanders' $6 trillion bill and his plan with manchin, listen, sinema and i, we are comfortable with this. you look at all the money we spent last year and you look at inflation, we think we should wait until next year to spend any money until we let the inflation work itself out of the system because of the $5.5 trillion we spent last year. so, if they get to a compromise, it's going to be because both sides are moving well out of their comfort zone, it seems to me the democratic party wants to

remain the majority, they're going to have to get right with each other today and give not only the president but terry mcauliffe and other candidates a big win going into the next tuesday's election of the time the president going to europe. >> time is short. the president is wheeling six hours from now and they're still heckling with the tax code that has to be written at lunchtime. this is a center piece of joe biden's campaign. it's at the top of the list of the agenda for democrats for things that needs to be in there because of pressure from manchin and sinema, it looks like it may follow the wayside. what happens if progressives is not on board if it's not there. sinema has some support for it.

there has been, it was real drama in the senate yesterday. look, this is a priority, a priority for the president and democrats and a party for women in particular and they either huddle negotiations but as of this moment, we talked to leanne caldwell last hour who says it's still not in and require 11th hour reversal to put it back. certainly a popular program along democrats poll really well. they got a chance to do something transformational and they are aware they need a win and deliver the president a win and the party needs a win going into the midterm but they are missing opportunity to put into law. there could perhaps revisited another moment next year. that'll be much harder closer to the midterms is that calculations. >> house progressives say not

only the house infrastructure deal needs to go through. the president leaving in a matter of hours. we'll talk about it all morning. meanwhile investigators of the movie set shooting where alec baldwin accidentally shot and killed the film's photographer and wounded the director, there was quote, some cocomplacency o how the weapon were handled. officers noted that 500 rounds of ammunitions were covered and live rounds fired by baldwin. >> we believed that we have the spent shell casings from the bullet that was fired from the gun. the actual led projectile has been recovered from the shoulder of mr. souza.

all mentioned items along with other evidence will be submitted to the fbi crime lab in chronicle virginia for analysis, and reference of possible charges. it's too early in the investigation to comment on charges at this point. >> that's sheriff mendoza. he added two other guns were seized and a single action revolver may have been modified. the local district attorney told nbc that she does not think it's ethical to proceed charges until documents come back from the fbi. the film's armor armor, hanna r says she checked the guns to make sure it's not live rounds. she declines to comment when reached by the associated press.

joining us live is anchor yasmine vossoughian. what more are we learning? >> good morning, willie. we learned the live round killed haylana hutchins, that was a big question. the other questions are who's culpable and who's responsible and why were there live rounds on a movie set. who folks handled that firearm before baldwin. it was reed, she's 40 years old. this is her second job and she checked the gun for rounds. after lunch they came back from

rehearsal and that's when the tragedy occurred. dave halls came into the picture, he was fired from another movie back in 2019 because of the mishandling firearms. he actually said in an affidavit and i quote, i want to read this directly. "i check the barrel for obstructions, most of the time there is no live fire, she, hanna, opens the hatch and spins the drum and i said cold set." we know dave halls yelled out "cold gun" which means this thing is safe. david advised when hanna shows him the firearm, he can only remember seeing three rounds and this is important. he advised he should have checked all of them but did not and could not recall if she spun the drum. the two other major questions that we have, 500 rounds of ammunition were found on that set retained by investigators,

some of which the sheriff said yesterday were in fact likely live and you read it, willie, miss gutierrez says live ammunitions should not be at a movie set and there is the question of criminal and civil charges. the district attorney telling miguel almaguer listen they got to go through 90 witnesses. and so it's going to be weeks or not months until this investigation is actually concluded and they can figure out whether or not civil or criminal charges should be filed. >> yasmin in santa fe for us. >> mika, i was interviewing a well-known actor for my sunday show. he says you would not believe the rigger or the protocol you would go through. they open the chamber and they spin it and they show you the

rounds and make sure it's not a live round to the point it's ridiculous how safety sets are and i was stunned to hear this happen. >> the actor is supposed to look and see and feel safe with that gun. >> you also have three different people that had custody of this gun. this is something we talked about a few days ago. anybody that's ever been around a handgun or any gun. again, rule number one, you never pointed at anybody but rule number two, you always assumed the gun is loaded. you always check and you check and see if it's a hot gun or not. you look in the chamber. that's the first step. i can't say it enough. like i said before, if that's the equivalent of getting your

keys and opening a door before you even go into the car, those are the basics. the fact you had three people who had custody of the gun. you had the armor, dave halls, the assistant director and you had alec baldwin, all three of those people. if they ever handled guns before would have checked every chamber. if it's on the revolver. the thing is you do it two or three times. it's like a nervous tick, you almost feel stupid the second or third times you check. let's bring in danny cevallos,

dave, you are a florida guy, you have been raised around guns like me. can you just reiterate that, that's just the basics of anybody handling a gun. >> it's the basic, joe, it's going to results in many lawsuits. the bigger question is will it resolve in criminal charges. my counter part out there says everything is on the table. they're going to focus on two of the three people you mentioned. the 24-year-old armor and the assistant director who handed the gun to alec baldwin. i do not believe alec baldwin will be charged because he was told the gun was safe and it was cold. and also when the gun went off, he was practicing rehearsing his cross drop, not horsing around. and so those are important facts in his benefits. still, if there is a crime here,

it will be involuntarily man slaughter which is a fourth degree in new mexico law. it's unintentional killing regarding from a reckless disregard into others. it's like someone shooting into the air on new year's eve and the bullets killing someone. the investigators want to know the chain of custody of that weapon and who loaded it and who knew it contains some sort of live rounds. it's relevant that if someone is grossly negligence. the fact that the assistant director admitted that he did look at all the rounds or the fact that the industry's standard should be the armor and only the armor that hands the gun to the actor. here you have someone intervening who may have negligence and that could be criminal charges. >> danny cevallos, i know you

handle cases, some of it is basic gun safety and i am wondering what faces the most, what if this list faces the most tremendous legal ramifications, live rounds on a set? who's responsible? there are many who are saying there should not be live rounds on a set. is that a policy? the lack of experience among the armor or the budget of the movie may have led to that. is there some culpability there in there were couple of other accidental discharges on that set. does it say something? should it be a lever that came down and stopped production? finally, alec baldwin, pointed a gun at a group of people and it appears, correct me if i am wrong, at pretty close range, where does that stand in the legal realm in terms of

responsibility? >> onset maybe the only place in america where a person picks up a gun may not be expected to know or believe that it's dangerous. by that i mean an actor onset is there to act, he relies on the armor and the first assistant director to make sure the firearm or the prop or whoever that was handed to him. on a movie set, you have the first assistant director who's generally in charge of safety, he or she conducts safety meetings, they are the bosses of keeping the sets safe. when you have firearms, you have an armor and a chain of custody is that the armor handles the weapon from the table, checks it and clears it and that would be opening the cylinder with the firearm like this and checking to see what's in the cylinder, the dummy round will have the back, the primary area punched out. that should be obvious and it's

given to the actor directly by the armor. you have over lapping area of safety. it should be checked to make sure the firearm is safe as well. in terms of what we learn from press conference and the sobering facts or the biggest bomb shell was the fact that you have all of these pieces of ammunitions, 500 different pieces and the sheriff admitted that he didn't know for sure one way or another if they were live, blanks or dummy rounds. how were they stored? were they thrown in a cigar box and sorted through by hands? that if true, that would be a serious sign of negligence. the reality is there will absolutely be civil lawsuits. the use of the word complacency

by the sheriff yesterday, law enforcement is already starting from a baseline of there were mistakes made. to get to the level of criminal negligence, that's another big step. they're not going to go there until all the facts are back including from quantico. >> are you telling me sets across america that it's normal for guns to be pointed at people. that's not what i am reading. >> sometimes there are real guns onset, it's more dangerous, it's more of a no-no to have any live ammunition onset. movie set and tv sets do use real firearms, they just make sure if they are blanks or dummies on them. the first rule of gun safety, a gun expert will tell you don't

point a firearm at anything you don't want to destroy or kill. it's phrased different ways depending on where you read it. you are right, someone points a firearm at anyone should expect a real possibility that person will be killed. >> what happens in the very rare instance on a set where you have someone like an actor who's all but assured by industry standards when those are applied correctly that what he's holding in his hand is not a firearm but look an actor like alec baldwin with experience from other sets if he has that experience may be expected to know that what he's holding is something that potentially could kill someone and there are protocols for keeping the and setting up the camera shot and getting everyone over the video village safe away from the firearm and doing it that way. there could be some responsibility there. >> is there is part of the union code even that the actress is

supposed to see inside the gun and led alone pointing it at someone. i never know a case that pointing a gun at someone is okay whether it's a movie set or a prop gun -- is the actress supposed to see inside the gun and use it? >> the interesting is if alec was using a cross draw, you can't see the cartridges or casing on the outside. is this a live hot gun, i stress that in that chain of custody arguably and i wrote a column about this, it may be the case that the actor is lower on the responsibility line than the other folks onset who have primary responsibility for

safety and particularly gun safety. >> all right, guys, stay with us. we have some news breaking from "the washington post." the headline, biden to announce new social spending framework expected to win support of all democrats, the post article says this. president biden plans thursday to announce a revised framework for a social spending plan to gain the support of all democrats, according to multiple people of the knowledge of this situation marking a potential break through, moments after months of lengthy negotiations and talks. the white house is expected to pass congress after weeks of wiggling down biden's agenda. democrats were prepared for the proposal for release on thursday according to the second person. biden will address house democrats on thursday morning before delivering remarks from the white house about the plan.

and biden's speech comes ahead of his plan trip to rome later in the day. so jonathan lemire, it looks like they have a framework that the president expects to pass after they work out all the details. he's going to the hill to talk to democrats about it. it sounds like a victory lap. there will be some haggling and negotiations going on and back to the white house for announcement. what can you tell us? >> that story is short on the details of what this actual framework is. we'll find out since this story broke. but this is written on the fly. it shows how hurry and urgent the situation is and that i think it's going to be the president endorsing the smaller top line number of a round of 1.5 or $1.75 trillion.

this is something we'll learn details as the morning breaks and continues. so this is a fluid i don't think we should say this is quite ready yet. >> mike barnicle , now is the time democrats come together and get a bill done. this is a democratic party that desperately need a big win. they have a $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill bipartisan that's a massive pr victory. they need to get this framework d need to do it today if they want to benefit from all of this

politically. he has had one thing above all else and that's paid family leave and now with the 11th hour, it seems that paid family leave may be in jeopardy. he finds it to be unacceptable. we'll see what he says in a few hours and i want to see what's in the bill that "the washington post" broke the news on that's being rewritten and we'll soon be announced. at the end of the day on this, is this not an indictment the way the united states operates, everyone under democratic control. this is chaos that's involved here. they're in the verge of trying to pass a bill and rewrite the united states' tax code, an incredibly complex piece of law that's been in the books for years, trying to rewrite the portion of the united states tax

code in less than a day. this is crazy that it's going on. the other thing it plays to the president's strength and i hope he addresses it that you have a democratic senate, a democratic house, a democratic president, what is it that they do not understand about this limited envelope of opportunity that they have to pass life-changing legislation from many, many people in this country. >> that's why we'll hear today most likely the framework, the general framework for a deal that'll take at least two to three weeks to write up since we are talking about changes in the tax code and changes in how climate change is going to be addressed and changes in significant changes in legislation and codes. he's hoping to announce a

generalize framework that'll give progressives the go ahead to vote for the bipartisan infrastructure bill that's been sitting waiting to be passed for quite some time. and we'll see if that happens, if it does happen you are going to have a big headline about a bipartisan infrastructure bill that's going to pass. that'll certainly be true to the benefit of president biden and the entire democratic party and when the framework is written into law two weeks from now, possibly three weeks from now that'll be another significant bill signing which is another big political win and not just for joe biden. they're not going to get everything they want. again, joe manchin and kirsten sinema, they can get by with passing nothing.

what his constituents and west virginia want are not schumer and brooklyn want. you actually had moderate democrats in your caucus that's actually something to celebrate because that means that you have two people that's normally not elected in these contested times. that's not something to mourn. some encouraging news in the fight of coronavirus, the number of new daily cases plunging across the country. we'll dig into new numbers.

a judge blocks a covid-19 vaccine mandate. the expected fallout also ahead, protrump attorney, john eastman caught on camera appearing to brag about his memo, outlining how to overturn the 2020 election results. it's pretty different on what he told the national review. with halloween coming up, we are taking a look at america's favorite and least favorite candy. >> what's your favorite candy? >> all of it. >> you are watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. joe," we'll be right back. so, should all our it move to the cloud? the cloud would give us more flexibility, but we lose control. ♪ ♪ ♪ should i stay or should i go? ♪ and we need insights across our data silos, but how?

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look at other stories making the headline this morning. good news in the fight against covid. new cases plummeted since their last peak since early september. will that trend continues with the holiday around the corner? gabe gutierrez has the latest. >> reporter: more positive sign, new covid cases in the u.s. are down 57% since their last peak on september 1st. hospitalizations have dropped 54% since late august. >> we are heading in the right direction but with cases still high, we must remain vigilant heading into the colder and dryer months. >> we are back where we started. >> reporter: when we visited this summer al jacksonville, the hospital was treating 270 patients and now is 17. >> it's very reassuring.

my hope is the high number of those vaccinated really made the big difference for us. >> reporter: while there is i am is improvements there are still hot spots in montana. >> we are worried what's going on. >> reporter: a bright spot, the possibility that younger kids may soon get vaccinated if the cdc signs off as early as next week. some states are planning ahead. >> new york's governor says she does not anticipate needing masks on-site. >> parents and schools have been waiting for this. this is a break-through. we are keeping an eye on extreme weather, reported of tornados touching down in texas and louisiana.

in new england, hurricane forced winds knocking out power for hundreds of thousands of people. stephanie gosk has more. >> reporter: 40 homes with major damage. eight reported tornados and two confirmed hitting hard in texas and louisiana. houses completely destroyed. nor'easter keeps plummeting new england. >> reporter: that's hurricane-strike winds. did you have any idea that the storm is going to be as strong as this? >> no, no, we have been through two hurricanes at this property and we never had the damage we had. >> reporter: three trees crashed into lynn macdonald's roof. i grabbed them and i thought the

house was collapsing. the storm turned into a so-called bomb cyclone. >> bomb cyclones occurred in the past and when they do occur it's catastrophic. >> there is an underlying factor, that's the warming of the ocean caused by global warming. >> reporter: more stormy weather is on its way. frightening. >> let's bring in our meteorologist bill carons and talk about bomb cyclones and what's going on on the east coast in terms of the weather. >> yeah, we have 350,000 people without power eastern massachusetts and the leaves were on their trees, it has been a warm fall, we can thank climate change for that, too. most of the leaves will be gone.

the leaves help catch the wind and that was responsible for a lot of those power outages. let me show you the video of texas tornado again. what was amazing is it starts off your average and general tornado, you can see it behind the building there. all of a sudden it rapidly strengthens and it runs through a couple of trees and you can see a barn structure there and at one point an atv gets thrown up in the air and tossed about 100 feet. this is what you call an ef-2 tornado. we have a threat today. this is same storm system in texas. it's moved along the gulf coast and moving through florida over night. we have a chance of isolated tornado today. we'll watch our friends from orlando and jacksonville and north eastern carolina. wind gusts are the biggest concerns. we have the biggest rainstorm today in the midwest, travel delays in chicago, st. louis and

that's headed to the east coast. for halloween week, friday, rainy day and d.c. and baltimore and philly as we go through friday night and saturday, the mess all through new england, it's cool and dreary and wet with good rain of the first half of the day from all the way to boston. here is the good news. by halloween for all the trick or treaters for the kids, it's nice coast to coast, temperatures comfortable and a little bit of snow there in wyoming. it's a crazy ten days of the two bomb cyclones, the one in the west coast and yesterday in the east. we get a quiet weekend. >> bill caron, thank you very much. he was talking about halloween, let's comment on the fact that it's just three days away. are you ready? >> forbes have released the favorite candies based on its

sales. sour patch kids, my kids love these, i don't get it. reese's cups take the top. the top candies are reese's cups and skittles which just brought back the lime flavor and also m&m's. topping the list of worst halloween candy, candy corn, i love candy corn. >> circus peanuts? kind of agree and the licorice, i don't know what hershey's thinking. willie, i don't get the sour patch stuff. reese's great, i always love it. two great taste. >> what's with the sour patch?

>> i am a snickers guy. >> i love snickers. >> barnacle? >> yes. >> snicker is number one. >> yes, snicker is number one and reese's second. >> same here. >> willie? >> i am a snicker is number two. i agree with this. it's not everyday the country can come together. reese's cup is far in a way has been america's greatest candy. they continue to innovate. they came out with the thin and the big one is a meal. now they got the thins so you can just pop them and meanwhile you eat ten more than the other one. >> exactly. >> i love them >> i housed a bag last night of these. they were supposed to be for halloween, they're called reese's peanut butter cups mystery shapes. it means nothing and i popped those, too.

i agree candy corn being the worst candy. i said that publicly. there is a whole very defensive population of candy corn lovers in this country. >> i would be part of that population. >> absolutely. >> just so you know at the airport yesterday, i had reese's peanut butter cup pretzels. >> really? in a bag. >> okay. coming up -- >> we have come together by the way. >> coming up, we have been talking about the last minute items. president biden is attending to before he leaves for europe today. richard house joins us next with a look at what's at steak when biden gets there. "morning joe" is back in a moment. there "morning joe" is back in a moment

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america's back in the business leading of the world alongside nations who share our values. the only way we'll meet our threats is america working together. america is back at the table. >> that's really important and we'll talk about it in a second. willie, i forgot a candy bar. it's not we can't go on without talking. it's just the old classic. the old traditional. >> the cheap cherokee of candy bar. the hershey bar. mika brought it home. >> it was the big pack. >> i said i have not had those

for a while and i love hershey bars. it was all gone. she ate them all. >> that's apart of buying halloween candy early, i always eat it all. it's always there for us and we can always come back for it. when you take a bite, there it's. of course we forgotten. i am glad we skirl back, i want to speak up in support of the twizzlers. >> oh, that's so gross. >> i got to say, barnacle, i am sorry, i can't be talking about a hershey's bar. the old classic of candy bars and he -- >> he wants us to eat flip-flop. >> i don't get that, barnacle.

>> you brought up hershey's? >> yes, there is nothing better than being an american citizen and leaving at home with a hershey bar refrigerator, it's heaven. oh my god. and for willie to have done that. it has changed. >> stop it. >> oh. all right -- >> you said it. >> at a movie theater, a twizzler, you can't beat it. >> remember the sound byte that we bump in. that was joe biden back in june during his first foreign trip

after declaring american diplomacy. the president faces lingering questions about america's role on the world's stage. let's bring in our richard haus and yamiche alcindor. >> your favorite candy bar? >> not much surprises me and the fact you did not mention raisin nuts. >> what? >> and you did not talk about m&m's peanuts. the lack of judgment. >> yamiche, i have to go to you and as long as you don't say raisin nuts and twizzler.

>> i am here in speak up of the candy corn. >> yamiche, thank you, thank you. >> all right. richard, i guess we need to talk about something other than halloween candy, why don't we talk about what's going on as the president goes to europe, what's at stake here and what does he need to get out of the trip? >> well, the backdrop is less than ideal and it's not simply all the legislatives that you all have been discussing. the framework is general but it's what's happening in afghanistan and it's january 6th, it's the lack of consultations of the submarine deals. the united states don't recognize of covid and resistance to vaccines. the rest of the world is dying from a lack of vaccines. they don't understand why people

are not taking them. the opposition to mask and you got all that. it's two big parts of the trip are in italy, the g-20 meeting and will you get this deal on taxation and if you do, will country implemented it? will they make vaccines available for the rest of the world. again, an enormous gap between the rhetoric and the performance showing china alone and xi jinping won't be there physically, he'll be there visually. china is the world's greatest emitter of greenhouse gases. they're still building coal plants at home. they're still building them. the gap between where the world needs to be and where it's is large and if anything growing.

>> we got confirmation, a source familiar tells nbc news president biden will announce a new social spending framework that's expected to win support of all democrats. >> it had not been what would leave europe and the rest of our allies to say america is back. what are they hoping to achieve on this trip that can change that dynamic? >> well, the president is hoping that he can go into europe and really talk to our allies about what he thinks about what his vision is for america and the real actions that are behind that. last time he was abroad, he was

introducing the biden administration, the goals and talking about climate change and talking about taking the pandemic more seriously and now this time especially he's going to be announcing this froerk. he can go in and say, the vision that democrats have and this sort of robust social policy visions that democrats have been working towards for generations, that's being realized, it's sort of murky of details being told by lawmakers. the president is going to be going to the international climate change summit and he's going to be able to say apart from what the epa is doing, now he can say i also got democrats moving a bill through congress to hit some of the goals on carbon and emissions and that the white house and the president has been pushing the world to do. he was pushing this win to happen before he got on the plane, he's going to be delaying

his departure here in a couple of hours to take a victory lap before he goes to take another victory lap in europe. >> what we are hearing coming into the morning that the president is going to go through, and making a plea pass an infrastructure bill and trust me i got to vote i need on this larger packet. it appears they are announcing the framework that progressives are on board, is that your read of what's happening of what he's doing today? >> that's my read of what's happening. the holdup here was can the president get progressives and moderates on the same page now that the president is feeling comfortable enough and the white house is feeling comfortable to say he's announcing a framework. it's my understanding that leads democrats coming to an understanding. things have been changing hour by hour and i was trying to get a real read of will paid family leaf is still on the plan.

it was entirely out. it was ridiculous for democrats to think they'll pass for what they call a transformational bill without dealing with the real disparity of the united states and other country on paid family leave. they said women of color in particular have had for centuries to take care of people whether they were healthcare workers or domestic over the years. they did not have the time to take care of their own families. paid family leave was not only about fixing a sort of modern day problem but also fixing a generational problem, requiring women to take care of everyone else other than those who are close to them. it will be interesting to see where everything lands. >> if this gets done, richard, the president can head to scotland for the climate change summit with some measures in

hands to say look, it has been my goal here to reestablish america on more leadership on this issue. he may be able to do that. that summit is limited on the absence of individuals, mainly xi jinping of china. give me your assessment as to what he can actually accomplish this weekend and how china shadow this is whole week? they can adapt to climate change and green technology. my guest is the rhetoric will far outpace performance.

not enough will be done to change the curve there. secondly the amount of money that's promised will be inadequate china is not going to be there as you say. its own performance is bad and it's not getting better. it's talking about not reaching zero emissions until 2060 and it's going to get worse. between now and 2030, china is going to bring more coal plants online. you got all the issues of the growing threat of taiwan and human rights problem and everything to hong kong and uighurs and all the economic problems. this has become the most important but almost the most difficult relationships in the world and an interesting question is in places like g-20, can the president get greater support from europe to confront china or is europe so intense on economic interaction with china

that they won't line up. >> richard, we need to get a roundtable on china. and take 45 minutes out of the show. the changes in china continues. in a way that's not only bad for people that live there but bad for u.s./china relations but over the past year, i would say terrible for china themselves. they broken off an economic hub for the rest of the world and hong kong and i know people still trade there but businesses are getting more and more weary not just of hong kong but more weary of china itself. these moves to a totaltarian

government in the end. >> absolutely, xi jinping's policy and what he's doing at home, alienating much of the world and to isolate china. the problem they're having at home, economic growth is slowed considerably and environmental problems and health problems and the rest, growing amount of concerns that china will look at foreign policies as a way of satisfying domestics -- it's one of the reasons people like me feeling greater urgency for the united states to make it clear for what is prepared to do to protect taiwan and others to say here is what we would do if china ever lifted a finger against taiwan. there is a gap between what it will take to deter china and where we are. that's another big problem for the united states. >> we need to draw a line in the sand for taiwan and we better do

it quickly. one more take. i was reading this article. i think an important, important article for both republicans and democrats policymakers who may have actually believed what barack obama said, the myth of the russian decline, why moscow will be a persistent power. we do not have the luxury of looking at china. the myth of russian decline is a dangerous myth for this country

to believe in. >> it's a dangerous myth because russia has significant and not just nuclear weapon but military medical weapons. they're not shy about using it indiscriminately. mr. putin is not back off. russia got all these tools, joe, they're anything but a status quo country. vladimir putin lets up every morning and he sees the united states in the west still as a threat to him and russia. russia is a threat and by the way even if they are decline and their population is only about 145 million. and got real economic problems in parts of the country. the fact that they may be in some of decline is also not reassurance. they may be in a position to

strike out and combining the two conversations, we faced china that's a rising power that has all the economics and we face to russia that has a whole array of tools that can hurt us. this is a dangerous moment for moern foreign policies. we got two super or great power rivals that we have to worry about at a time we are divided at home and at a time we got to cope with covid and climate change and other global problems, it's about a full of an inbox as i have seen. >> we have to cope those issues with them. richard and yamiche, thank you for being with us on all of those insights. the development moments ago, nbc news can confirmed that president biden will announce a new social spending framework today that's expected. keyword there, expected to win all support of democrats. the president will travel to

capitol hill this morning and then address the nation at 11:30 in the morning from the east room. joining us now, white house's reporter tyler page, who broke that news that morning and former u.s. senator, msnbc's political analyst, claire mccaskill. >> you got the story, congratulations. tell uls what you know about the framework? >> thank you so much for having me. what we expect from the president today is to detail this new framework after months of negotiations with senators particularly joe manchin and kirsten sinema, he's expected to detail the new framework that he thinks will be able to pass the senate in the house. this is a critical moment. the president has some what delayed by a few hours, his trip overseas where he heads over to

rome for g-20 because of the priority of getting a deal done. it seems a potential break through where he has finally come through a conclusion where he thinks is enough agreement for key proposal. they whittled down his agenda and they have come to a framework that they can pass the house in the senate. >> from your story it sounded light president biden was going to go to the hill and talk to democrats and come back to the white house and then make a statement at the white house before departing. is that what this morning looks like for the president? >> that's what it's shaping up to be. he was supposed to leave early to europe but that schedule has changed. he's expected to talk about this revised framework.

there are a number of house members who are not ready to vote for that package until they see the texts of the new framework and it's unclear if that'll be ready. we know they are hard at work trying to get it ready. it's unclear it will be ready for them to review before they go overseas and preventing a vote on this infrastructure package. the big news is the president feels confident enough about the social spending bill to make a speech of the america's public before going overseas. >> tyler, this is a big headline, i am hearing from some progressives saying whoa, whoa, not so fast and we don't know what he's talking about. bernie sanders says it's in conceivable for what he would vote in front of him and what is your sense and have things changed much the last 12 hours or the president still have a lot of work to do to bring

progressives along with them? >> i think there is a lot of internal discussions with the white house and key senaors holding out where they got to a point where they feel comfortable. they need to bring progressives along and that's why the president is going to capitol hill today to make that pitch that he feels confident that if they do pass this bipartisan infrastructure framework, they can bring the moderate members of congress and the senate in the house along to pass this social spending bill that's a priority of the progressives. progressives are not there yet, they need to see and they want to see more specific stuff of what this legislation actually contains. this has been a negotiation that a lot have cut. a lot of people are unclear of what's in this framework. the president has an important task today as he speaks to house members of what's in it and the american people. this is the corner stone of his

domestic agenda and he needs to sell it to the american people. i think today before he goes overseas is part of that effort to detail what he's trying to pass and hopefully delivering for the american people. >> tyler pager, thank you so much, great to have you on. hope you will come back soon. jonathan lemire. a lot of things flying around right now. let's just slow down a little bit. we have the report of the deal done from tyler. the framework of the deal being done, now nbc knew some interesting language added to the nbc news confirmation that i was surprised by saying that every democrats will support the bill. i don't know if that's from a white house source. i suspect it's certainly not from a capitol hill source. as these things are being read

out and as news are breaking, i think we should all be cautious because as one person told me yesterday, it was like herding goats trying to figure out where all the democrats going to be. i suspect there may be a few running on that mountain right now. are you skeptical that every democrat is going to support this framework? >> i think this is certainly the white house we know has great urgency in getting some sort of deal done. they do believe they made progress in the right direction. they have no margins for errors

here. democrats don't know what's in it yet. they have not been briefed yet. we'll not know if they'll sign on board. they don't know what those on capitol hill will say. so that's a lot of progress made over night when it does not seem they're active negotiations. the core of this story and i got a text five minutes ago. the core of the story and the question and the really

important question that we assumedd will be addressed toda is not what's in this new bill but it's what's left out. if family leave is still left out, there is no way they get every democrats on board. it's one of the key components and this is still being sorted out. certainly the white house is hopeful, they can present and appealing framework of reconciliation to get progressives to vote on the bipartisan structure. >> mika, again, the white house expects every democrats to be on board. >> a lot of democrats have been texting me disappointed of paid leave. claire mccaskill, you have been on the inside and you have been through a few of these. the president's trip, is there a

pressure for him to sort of corner democratic leaders to get this done? >> there is no question that he wants particularly, he wants to be able to talk about the climate investment. all of these discussions, let's get a little context here. the republicans and the white house in the senate could not get a structure done. they could not bill a wall or do immigration reform. we are on the edge of getting universal pre-k. that's a huge thing in this country. also to expanded healthcare and a whole lot of really important

spending including tax credits for working families. this is a major accomplishment, so everyone who's ringing their hands and oh, maybe there is maybe something that's not in it. we should focus on what's in it. as joe biden would say it's enough a big deal that they may get this major package through congress with such slim majority in both house which means moderates have to be on board and progressives who are in very safe seats need to realize that getting nothing done removes them from the majority status in congress. >> claire, there is no question this is a massive deal. i am sure paid family and medical leave is a deal breaker. it has to be in there for them to vote for it. as you get back to joe's sources

term of goat herd, you have some expertise having served in the senate, we heard from progressives yesterday, congresswoman ocasio-cortez says i am not supporting a framework. we got a framework for six months but it changes everyday. should the white house be so sure that they have all the progressives support this morning? >> i know staff was up all night and i know it feels like this is being written at a moment's notice. there is texts existed in the tax code. there is a lot of cut and pace going on here. there is a lot of pushing into place and various components and previously written in other legislation. so it's not as huge a task as people may think it's.

>> welcome to legislating. let's do some major things that donald trump could never have gotten done or did ever got done and start talking about our victory moving forward to the election next year. sf it's not in there, it's heartbreaking. universal pre-k, if i had the opportunity to put into law, i would have skipped all the way

home. >> you know, claire, let's talk about the democratic party, they can sit people on the hill and talk all they want of not being accomplished. that's missing the forest for the trees when you are talking about universal pre-k being passed in the united states of america. a $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill for badly needed upgrades in america's crumbling

infrastructure. you are talking about three trillion dollars in social spending to upgrade infrastructure. if that's not a win in this democratic congress but for any democratic congress, i would suggest that people just don't have a firm grasp of history. this would be a huge win for democrats. >> i think people need to remember as we pass it. the antiobamacare folks had a different sound byte. the people supported obamacare is a little complicated to explain. as time goes on, it became popular. as things in it, americans appreciate it. we are so anxious to cover the

fight. we lose sight of the positive thing that's going to occur here. a party of close majority has got major things done for people in america needed the most. not a partisan tax cut for the wealthy. tax credits for working families and universal pre-k and expanding medicaid in the 12 states that stubbonly refusing it. >> well-put, claire, thank you, we'll get answers to exactly what will happen this morning on capitol hill. how senator hakeem jeffries and senator amy klobachar is joining

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newly released under cover attorney, eastman who plays a key role in out lining strategies keeping biden's certified was filmed by windsor. republican figure prefended to be ally. she approached eastman in an event last saturday night. >> when i read your memo, i thought it was solid in a single argument. i was floored that mike pence didn't do anything. why didn't he act on it because you gave him the legal reasoning

to do that? >> i know, exactly. >> all your reasonings are totally solid. >> there is no question. >> he's like you know -- supporters, why do you think mike pence did not do it. >> well, mike pence is an established guy at the end of the day. >> we would have gotten georgia, michigan, pennsylvania, back in january. i saw rudy giuliani and me and met with 300 legislatures on january 2nd, via zoom conference call and they all spinelessly would not do anything even when we given them all the evidence and they would not do it. i am very much wished it was otherwise. these guys are spineless. now, if we take a lunch of them out in the binary in 2022 and preconditions of getting elected is we'll fight this stuff then

maybe we'll get an opportunity. >> the voice of john eastman in an interview. eastman stepped back to have mike pence rejected the electoral votes, calling it not viable and crazy. he's expected to be subpoenaed. let's step back a second and recap, insane arguments of overturning the election, he say is get me that guy. he writes a two-page memo laying out step by step how pence should proceed to effectively throw out the votes in seven states. get everybody under 270 electoral votes and can't get to state legislatures where there are more republicans than democrats and give the election to donald trump to overturn the results of the 2020 election. he tried to step back from a bit, perhaps he's afraid of the

subpoenas coing his way and national interview showing true colors of the under cover video. >> yeah, i am not big fans of those types under cover videos as we have seen some on the right do it and some of the left. don't you just hate like so and so. when i am getting off the stage a lot of times and when i hold town hall meetings, you don't have the debate when you walk up the stage or when people want to come up and talk to you. don't you think the yankees are the greatest team. yeah, they are good guys and they cheer for them all the time and i keep walking. that's how i usually am with these. claire mccaskill, i know you feel my pain and you get off the stage and people are talking to

you and off the stage you want to agree with them and you are like yeah, i understand. in this case, with john eastman, he didn't go yeah, mike pence is an establishment guy and that's why he did it. it's sort of a generalize statement that would been fine and he could have walked on. here he goes specific about the seven states and the zoom call and the 300 members. he gets specific about them being spineless and he gets specific of meeting the primary so they can overthrow the next election. this was not polite chatter that i must admit. this was an explicit call to fuel the next election. >> i certainly understand what you are talking about. sometimes when people are trying to confront you as you are

walking from a stage or through an airport, you just want to move on and so you are just kind of yeah, yeah and keep going. this was much different than that. this was and this man exposing he's a looney tune royal. he's somebody that believes in the insurrection and overturning a valid election which the people in trump's administration that were charged with a evaluating said it was the most fraud-free election in american history. absolutely this was all made up stuff. what is the wall street journal doing publishing a letter of donald trump full of this job and full of all of this made-up stuff in pennsylvania. i want to say to the people in charge of the wall street

journal, what are you doing and why did you perpetuate in kind of stain on our democracy where you got somebody who's trying to overturn the will of the american people is really disgusting. >> it's interesting actually because the wall street journal has their editorial page. >> the editorial page time and time again spoke out strongly about donald trump stopping the steal narrative and spoke out strongly against january 6th.

>> it was interesting they published that letter. >> i don't agree with that at all. the memo came out earlier this month after the national school board association wrote to the biden administration asking for help. we have seen many school board meetings across the country over shouting contests over issues of mask wearing and testing requirements. in the memo garland stated threats against public servants are not only illegal, they run counter to our nation's core values. he goes onto write the department takes this incident seriously and committed in using authority and resources to

discourage these threats, identify them when they occur and prosecute them when appropriate. senate republican argued yesterday garland went too far and coordinating with law enforcement on the matter. >> what on earth does a national security precision has to do with parents -- >> you have weaponized the fbi and the department of justice, your u.s. attorney is collecting a catalog in all the way prosecuting parents that's it's wrong and unprecedented to my knowledge of the history of this country and i call you to resign. >> you don't think parents out there in the real world, maybe we should not go to school board meetings and there will be fbi agents there. >> my god, a parents did a nazi salute to the school board

because they thought -- is that protected by the first amendment? >> yes, it is. >> okay. >> okay so -- get that? i am not sure if that's the example i would have used where i am one of two people who were to overthrow a democratically elected election on january 6th. josh hawley and of all people, i call on you to resign. it's very rich that these people, these populists, let's see here, we had the populists from harvard law school first and the populist from yale and stanford law school and we have the populist from princeton and

i believe harvard law school. those three populists. let me say, willie and i have tried to get a go fund me site so they can become better actors so they'll have more punch to their populistism. they are defending people who made death threats against school board members. they are defending people who harassed school board members. they defend people that circled the cars of school board members who say, we know where you live. why should we be surprised that now they're supporting those who are making threats against school board members and are enraged that america's law enforcement agency actually wants to protect school board

members from threats of deaths and threats of violence and constant intimidation. >> yeah, you wonder how these guys would feel if a school board member was, if somebody came into a school board meeting with an ar-15 and kill a school board members and they would be saying well, mayor garland was a failure because no one was trying to address the school violence. merrick garland did a good job explaining this is not controversial. we are here to work with anybody in country and law enforcement who are dealing with threats with domestic terrorism and violence of killing people in the name of a cause. you have to understand joe, they have great success only being about cultural wars of the republican party.

when you are a republican, back in the day when you were running for office, there were things you cared about and campaigned on like fiscal responsibilities and foreign responsibilities and tax codes. these guys have given up all that. all they want to do is sign the next crt or the next taken out of context the letter from head of doj saying we are here to cooperate with law enforcement on threats. i mean they are really have hone the art of playing to the lowest common denominator in the cultural wars and they won with it. that's why josh hawley won in missouri. it was the culture war and not on the policies.

that would sell in every one of these states and every one of these districts, instead they're going for the lowest common denominator, they're constantly trying to rip their base into frenzy and they're saying the hell with suburban voters and the hell with swing voters. i am going to worry about the next two years and i am going to try to shock people and try to raise a little bit more mumbai doing that. i understand it does work but it works in areas where being a mainstream republican would work just as well. >> i think it's time the republican party realize that there was a time when all republicans wanted to be ronald reagan. they wanted to be abraham

lincoln, that was the person they wanted to emulate. that was the goal standard and now it's donald trump. are really mad at the mexicans or the muslims or the elites and that's what they are emulating now. i find it incredibly depressing for the republican party and it's really bad for our country. >> all right, we'll be talking a lot about this and sorting out this morning's developing news. will the new social spending framework that president biden will announce in a matter of hours win support from all democrats. >> or most? >> we'll ask the chairman of the house democratic congress,

congressman hakeem jeffries next on "morning joe." n hakeem jeffrt on "morning joe.

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we looking forward to what he has to say. in terms of the framework, it's going to be a historic investment in jobs creation and historic investment in children and families and protecting the planet as well as an incredibly important investment in expanding access to healthcare to everyday americans all across the country we have been working on this for several months and the president have been in center of bringing everyone together to have the highest common denominator. i believe that's what he's done from leadership of pelosi as well. we are excited of the opportunity to make a real difference of the lives of the american people. >> sounds like you know what's

in it. you believe he brought everyone together. do you know all the democrats are behind it. >> i know all 50 democrats are behind it which is the number that we need are expected to support the bill better act. until i hear the president, that's something he'll have to lay out more importantly for the american people and that's to house democratic caucus. certainly the middle class and all those inspired to be apart of it, we support the expansion of the child tax credit, that'll be in the build back better act.

we support universal pre-k for three and four year olds across the country, along with a whole host of other policy items that are going to dramatically improve quality of life of the american people. >> which would be amazing. mccaskill points out universe l pre-k and what it's all about. >> i do expect that the items and the combination of both the bipartisan infrastructure agreement which is going to create millions of good paying jobs, the largest single

investment in infrastructure and our nation's history at the federal government level that's substantial in fixing our crumbling road and our sewer system. that's important. if it was just a stand alone bill but it's not. and so i think that democrats within the house democratic caucus are going to come together in partnership with the entirety of the senate, the democratic caucus and together we'll get something done that's big and bold and historic and transform activity for the american people. >> good morning congressman, as you know there were some concerns yesterday that paid family leave may be eliminated from the final product because senator joe manchin was against the national program for paid family leave. we know gillibrand who kind of cornered him and back off in

that position. if this bill does not include paid family leave, can you support it? >> yes, i will support it because of all the items of which i have discussed and i know that will be in the build back better act including the largest single investment in dealing with the climate crisis that had ever occurred. we are in the midst of an incredible rise of extreme weather events and it does extreme damage to our lives and livelihood and the economy. if all we are voting on related to confronting the climate crisis of the urgency now which is what's going to be in the build back better act, that would be sufficient to get this bill over the finish line but there is so much more. with respect to paid family leave, if it turns out the votes don't exist for it in the senate, we'll live to fight another day. remember in one of our recent

spending agreements, we allow for paid family leave to exist for the first time for military families as well as the families of federal government and employees. that's a start that we can build upon and we will. >> and so do you believe then congressman if -- we may take it up separately as a stand alone after we pass this larger bill? america is not a perfect country. that's not what was promised to us by the framers. they did promise us a more perfect union. there will always be work to do in terms of increasing opportunities in every single zip code so i won't comment specifically on what may be on the agenda because what's in front of us still has to get over the finish line. we'll fight to bring about the best policies for everyday americans as democrats here on

capitol hill. >> chair of the democratic caucus, hakeem jeffries, thank you for being on the show as we cover this breaking news this morning. we heard from a house democrat, where does the congressman's ally stand in the senate, we'll talk to amy klobachar straight ahead. the impact of washington's spending plan on the state and local level. chicago's mayor lori lightfoot is joining the conversation. "morning joe" is coming right back. ion. "morni jngoe" is coming right back

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♪♪ welcome back to "morning joe." beautiful live picture from the top of our building at rockefeller center at 7:53 in the morning. in what could be the start of a big change in the often frustrating way americans fly, one major airline is rolling out new technology to help

passengers get into their seats as quickly as possible. nbc news correspondent tom costello has details. >> reporter: amid a sea of planes and passengers a new technology slowly coming to an airport near you that may seem straight out of the sci-fi movie "minority report." >> john anderson! you could use a guinness right about now. >> reporter: where an iris scan sends personalized advertising to tom cruise. delta airlines and the tsa will use facial recognition to speed passengers from the curb to the plane. for those who opt in, no more scanning your paper ticket. all you'll need is your face, check in with your phone app. no need to show your driver's license to an agent. walk up to the kiosk, drop your mask, the camera then compares your face with the photo on file and spits out your bag tag. put the tag on the bag and off it goes.

to join the program you must be a delta sky miles customer and have tsa precheck. then just upload your passport. your face alone is good enough for the security check. >> biometrics allow us a degree of accuracy beyond what a manual verification process can provide. so our officers right now who are using these manual processes can resolve anomalies or other functions because we're automating the process. >> reporter: the rollout comes as passenger levels are coming back, roughly 2 million passengers on average each day, up 120% from a year ago. and expected to return to 2019 levels next year. when you show up at your gate, no phone, no ticket. you walk up to the camera, take off your mask -- >> welcome aboard, sir. >> reporter: you're done. for a lot of travelers it may reduce the hassle of flying and keeping track of tickets. >> i'm all for technology once it's working.

>> reporter: others have privacy concerns. >> at what point is it starting to scan you, when does it stop? what is it looking for and how is the data being used after the fact as well? >> reporter: in a world we use facial recognition to unlock our phones, delta believes this is the future. >> all aspects of your life you see how technology is making things easier and more seamless for you. airlines are learning that as well. >> reporter: and the future is now. >> tom costello reporting for us. still ahead on "morning joe," the latest from new mexico as santa fe authorities reveal a live round was used in the deadly shooting on the "rust" movie set involving alec baldwin. we will speak live with a professional armorer with two decades of experience to try to understand how this happened. plus, chicago mayor lori lightfoot joins us amid a battle between the city and its police union over a vaccine mandate for officers. we are back live in just two minutes with a packed 8:00 a.m. hour.

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his last 48 girlfriends have been psychos. at that point it's just like suspicious odds. or maybe he's from west virginia? 8:00, straight up on capitol hill. welcome back to "morning joe. "it's thursday, october 28. mike barnicle and claire mccaskill are still with us. willie, i sent out a tweet -- i didn't send out a tweet. the show had me talking about how it was great for democrats that they had people from west virginia and maricopa county actually in the democratic party. and it's one of the first tweets i've done in a very long time. i love twitter where you get more comments than likes. people are outraged that we want a national democratic party if we're supporting the democratic party or we want a national republican party if we are supporting a national republican

party, but it is just shocking to some people that a guy that represents a state that got 69% of the vote in that democrats would want that guy in their party. he could just switch to the republican party. he could switch. he could do what senators have done in the past, or they could have him still vote to go keep the democratic party in the majority, willie. it's kind of simple. >> you want a claire mccaskill, represent a state that has a lot of divergent interests, claire. progressives who want a bernie sanders will be disappointed every time. >> yeah, you need to understand that at one point in time when i was a senator, we had 60 democrats. but if you look at where those democrats came from, those are the states that we have to win to build majorities.

let's just set aside kyrsten sinema and joe manchin and look at where pat toomey is retiring and wisconsin where you've got ron johnson, need i say more, and ohio and north carolina where we have elected democrats before. you build majorities in the united states senate by winning seats in places that are not bright blue, and when you win in places that aren't bright blue, you're not going to have members of the senate that agree with bernie sanders on everything. that's not -- that's not what they campaigned on. that's not how they got elected. out of one signed of our mouth everybody says we want politicians who said they would be who they were when they campaigned. why aren't you like bernie sanders? so i get that people are frustrated but, remember,

kyrsten sinema was the first. they say joe biden won arizona. he did. i never served with a democrat from arizona. and neither have very many senators that are there in washington. it's been many, many years. so i'm not defending everything these guys have done. i disagree on some of the ways they've done things, but people need to realize if we're going to build a majority in the senate that would allow us to reform the filibuster on voting rights, you're going to have to win some of these states where programs are not as popular as in brooklyn. >> so let's talk about why all these senators are so front and center right now. we have breaking news just this morning. a fast-moving development out of washington. nbc news confirms reporting from "the washington post" that president biden will announce a new social spending framework

today that the white house expects to win support of all democrats. still, we have not yet heard directly from progressive members of the party who had insisted on seeing the language of the legislation before signing on. the president will travel to capitol hill this morning and then address the nation at 11:30 a.m. eastern time from the east room about the path forward for his economic agenda and the next steps to getting it done in the words of the white house. joining us now nbc news white house correspondent monica alba. monica, good morning. so this is a big announcement from the white house about this framework. we talked to congressman jeffries. we're going to listen to the president at 9:00 in the morning and then we'll let you know if we all support it. >> reporter: exactly, willie. that's the major question this hour, what exactly is in this new framework the president is going to unveil. the white house says he expects to win the full support of the

democratic party when he does go through what's in and what's out later this morning, but that is a key word there, expected to. it's very unclear in terms of some of the main pillars that many progressives and moderates had said they wanted in this bill, what actually is going to still be there. what we understand from sources familiar with the discussions it is going to be in the top line range of $1.75 trillion to $1.9 trillion, so well below, of course, what the white house and the president had initially wanted to get for this human infrastructure package. the other big question and really what's notable about what the president is doing this is a bit of a last different effort. he's saying i'm getting on a plane, i'm going to europe. i've delayed my departure by a couple hours to meet with democrats and speak to the american people and his message to his own party is please get onboard with this. i expect to you get onboard with this. this may be a real last opportunity or shot to get

everybody together and to get something done not just on what they're still negotiating when it comes to these social spending programs but also to get his already bipartisan infrastructure deal across the finish line. originally the white house hoped there had been major progress on this by the time he was going to leave for europe, but significant is yesterday the tea leaves were indicating he was going to push his departure back which is exactly what he's doing. he will go to capitol hill. but, remember, we've seen this movie once before at the end of september when the president went to meet with these same house democrats in order to try to see if he could get something accomplished, some agreement. remember, they decided they didn't have the votes and our own team is reporting right now that progressives are skeptical of the white house essentially saying, hey, we have a new framework. we're going to unveil it. until they see legislative texts and what made the cut, they're not prepared to say, okay, we'll give you the green light. this will be a real test for the president and this white house in the next few hours

domestically before he has a very high stakes trip internationally over the next couple of days, willie. >> again, monica, the president will be in the air 4 1/2 hours from now on his way to rome, a tight window to make that presentation on capitol hill. is it your reporting or your sense that he's been talking late last night and this morning to some of those progressives? because, you're right, from the ones i'm hearing from, listen, we're open to this, but they resent the assumption they have been told publicly they have to be onboard with this. again, they want to hear the details. >> reporter: absolutely. we do know he did spend a good amount of time with senator bernie sanders who was invited for an oval office meeting. other progressive members had been meeting for many hours with top white house officials who honestly have been spending more time at the other end of pennsylvania avenue and in their own offices on the white house complex. but the president did meet with progressives in the last few

weeks. he did bring them to the white house and he had these conversations. and some of them even on our air yesterday, look, i haven't spoken to the president personally in the last couple of days. i'm hopeful that he will present a framework that we can agree with because they do, in the end, of course, want to see something done and want to get both votes accomplished, but it has been the progressive party over the last few weeks, those democrats, who have said, but we're not ready to sign off on the bipartisan infrastructure bill until you really get our priorities in place. so we do know the president was working the phones over the last couple of days. he had senators manchin and sinema here and that's the other question, willie, are they onboard with whatever this new framework contains? have they already given some sort of a thumbs up because that was the other major question all day yesterday not what stays and goes but how to pay for it. the revenue question was still very much unresolved as of last night and they, of course, have been two very significant holdout votes and we just don't know yet this morning whether

they have told the white house, yes, we're good with whatever you're going to lay out or if this is a major strategy, the biggest gamble to essentially dare them to get onboard to see if this can proceed. >> monica, i heard a few minutes ago from one democratic member of congress who said here failure is not an option, and because of that he expects progressives to get onboard with whatever they hear coming up in under an hour now on capitol hill. nbc's monica alba reporting for us from the white house. monica, thanks so much. let's turn to new details on what happened on the movie set where alec baldwin accidentally shot and kill the film's cinema photographer and wounded the director. national correspondent miguel almaguer has the latest. >> reporter: on the set of "rust," investigators confirm alec baldwin fired a single live bullet that traveled through the body of cinematographer halyna hutchins and became lodged in the shoulder of director joel souza while reversing a scene

similar to this one. baldwin was handed a colt .45 revolver he was told was safe to use before squeezing the trigger. >> we believe that we have in our possession the firearm that was fired by mr. baldwin. we also believe that we have the spent shell casing from the bullet that was fired from the gun. >> reporter: according to a search warrant, the revolver was put into baldwin's hands by assistant director dave halls. he says the colt .45 came from someone who said no live ammo is ever kept on set. hall says hannah showed him the firearm, but he could only remember seeing three rounds. he advised he should have checked all of them but didn't and couldn't recall if she spun the drum. the two people who handled the weapon in the case, whose job it was to ensure safety, obviously made some serious missteps. shouldn't they face criminal charges? >> we just can't say that at this point.

>> reporter: how come? >> because the investigation is not complete. we know that mistakes happened. we're not exactly sure who did it, when they did it, how they did it. >> reporter: at the scene investigators questioned 16 cast and crew members inside the church where hutchins, a cinematographer on the rise, was killed. 600 items of evidence were recovered including three guns and 500 rounds of ammunition, both blanks and suspected live rounds. with authorities now investigating reports "rust" staff may have been taking live target practice while not filming, any potential criminal charges could be weeks, even months, away. this morning the investigation still unfolding in a tragedy that should have never happened. >> let's bring in veteran film and television armorer, clay, thank you for being with us. i don't know where to start.

let me start with an overarching question, can you talk about all the safety protocols that were blown through, that were ignored, pushed aside in this case? >> it sounds like all of them. rule number one, no live ammo should be on set for a film like this. there's limited cases where that's allowed, and this was not one of them. the armorer is supposed to check the weapon every time they pick it up, confirm that it's cold. when they did through the a.d., the first stop on the way onto the set, the a.d. is to check the weapon, confirm it's cold as well, announce that to the entire cast and crew over radio and verbally. then the weapon is taken by the armorer, not the a.d., the talent confirms it's cold. then the weapon is handed over to the talent. there's no other course of events that should have happened from the armorer to the talent. nobody else should have been touching the weapon from that point.

>> so, clay, i ask this question, not out of -- this is not a leading question about alec baldwin, because i just don't know what happens on set. i'm curious if actors have a responsibility when they have a weapon, especially a .45, that's capable of shooting live rounds, do the actors that you deal with, even if they're told it's not loaded, do they check the rounds themselves? and i only ask that as a gun owner who compulsively, when i pick up a gun, compulsively, time and again, check the chamber or check the rounds, compulsively make sure that the gun is not live. do actors that you work with do the same? >> i do the same, for sure. i can't blame an actor in this case because every time a gun comes on set i make darned sure

that actor has been shown and has confirmed themselves that weapon is cold. it's not something i want an actor doing after the fact. i don't want them fiddling with the weapon after the fact. if they see anything they need to see the armorer but it shun be a case they have to ask. anytime a weapon is passed off to an actor they should know because the armorer has shown them what the condition of the weapon is whether it's hot, whether it's cold, whether there's dummy rounds in it. >> and let's talk, also, about actors. like, for instance, in alec baldwin's case, i don't know if he regularly handled guns. i have seen people who have been around guns before that haven't regularly handled it. they don't really know naturally what they're supposed to do when they pick up that gun any more than i would know how to drive a tractor. so i'm wondering for you, do you take into account whether the

actor that you're dealing with has experience with guns or not, or do you just say, listen, it's not the actor's responsibility. that's why i'm hired. i have to make sure when i hand it to this person, it doesn't matter if they've grown up with guns or never picked up a gun before, that everyone on set is safe. >> my assumption and all of my colleagues' assumption, it's the first time they've ever seen a weapon so we talk them through the basics making sure they understand what we're showing them and why. if i show an empty chamber, an empty cylinder and they give me a blank look, they don't know why i'm showing them. so i explain everything, what a dummy round is, how you know it's safe, how you know a chamber is empty, a magazine is empty. >> a lot of times the actors are appreciaive of that.

i know you know this but i'm saying this so i've said this and everybody is on the same page, so there's no communication errors and everybody knows exactly what the condition of those weapons are and that the actors are completely clear on what they're being handed. >> and let's talk about pointing the gun at other people on set. obviously that's the first rule -- again, someone not experienced, you'll guide their hand away, never point it at anybody. i'm curious, though, on set, is there always an assumption that if somebody is making a sweeping movement across that entire area has nobody there in front of the area the gun is being pointed, or do you have guns that are

cold on set pointed at a camera, pointed in the direction of other people if it's cold, or do you just not even do that under any circumstances? >> certainly in the case of firing a blank, we'll never have a human being in the line of fire. that's rule number one. we'll rehearse as long as we need to making sure there's no one in the fire. if there's gear, that's one thing. that's replaceable. people aren't. sometimes there is a case if an actor has to put a gun to his head in a scene or point a gun at somebody else in a very close close-up. that's why the protocols we've established are in place. the armorer, every time they pick up a weapon will clear the gun, the a.d., the actor, anyone the gun is being pointed at our near clears the gun. everybody gets a chance to see that and confirm it is a completely cold weapon and

there's nothing that can come out of it. >> clay, good morning. it's willie geist. i was speaking to a veteran actor a couple days ago who echoed what you are saying, i hate to give away movie secrets, but we don't point the gun at the person even if they're standing straight across, we might turn to the side and even with camera angles we can make it look like it. he praised people like you and said you would not believe the protocols, how rigorous to the point we're standing there for five minutes showing me every chamber, reminding me everything, and there was the claim made by the armorer on rust that we don't have live ammunition on our set. on the "today" show the santa fe, new mexico, county sheriff said that is not an accurate statement, talking about this case. is there ever a scenario there is live ammunition on a movie or tv set? and if so, why would it be

there? >> safety bullets, number two, attached to every call sheet where there would be live rounds, i must separate live rounds are live, lethal rounds not blanks. there are very, very few cases where that's allowed, and that would be a very specific situation where they would need to see a bullet traveling through the air at super slow motion or some other special effects shot but those are incredibly rare, as rare as .001%. in the 18 years i've been working in this business i have seen it one time on a scripted set. there are other shows, educational shows, sometimes competition shows, where there will be live ammunition, but that's a completely separate situation from a scripted film like this show. >> claire mccaskill has a question for you. claire? >> sure. >> clay, i'm curious about this live ammo. there is absolutely -- i think

it's bizarre live ammo was on the scene. and i'm trying -- i think the prosecutor in me wants to not rule out the possibility that somebody did this, that somebody put live ammo in that gun knowing that something terrible could happen, for whatever deranged reason. has that entered your mind, and do you have any kind of rationale you could verbalize as to why anybody would bring live ammo on a movie set? >> i can't think of a reason why somebody would do that because it's taboo on a scripted show like this. it does not happen. it's rule number one in the armorer's background, you do not mix live ammo and blanks. it does not happen. now the idea there's any malice or anything like that, i'm not going to speak to that. i will say that had the proper safety protocols been followed, it wouldn't have mattered. had somebody inserted live ammo,

it shouldn't have mattered because the armorer checks, the a.d. checks, the talent checks, the crew checks. there's multiple players and it's foolproof, it's impossible for this accident to happen if those safety protocols happened which it's clear they were not. >> clay van sickle with nearly two decades of experience, thank you for being here. it's really important to get your expert view on all of this. still ahead here on "morning joe" there is a legal battle playing out in new york city over police officers and covid-19 vaccine mandates. a similar fight now taking place in chicago. we will talk to mayor lori lightfoot of chicago about that next on "morning joe." bogeys on your six, limu. they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter.

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welcome back to "morning joe." 8:26 with a look at times square. a judge in new york has denied a police union request to temporarily block the city's new vaccine mandate which is set to take effect tomorrow for its municipal workforce. the policy requires police officers, firefighters and other municipal workers to get at least one dose of the covid-19 vaccine by 5:00 p.m. or to be placed on unpaid leave. more than 130 city employees in chicago including police officers and firefighters have filed a lawsuit in response to that city's vaccine mandate. they are asking for a temp rather restraining order to halt the requirement. about 70% of its officers have complied with the mandate. at least 23 officers have been placed on no paid status for not complying. the mayor of chicago, lori lightfoot. mayor lightfoot, it's great to have you on the show this morning. what is your response to this

lawsuit from 130 police officers, firefighters, other workers who say they will not get the vaccine? >> well, it's important to note that the union, the firefighters local here, does not support the lawsuit, so it's about 130 fire personnel, a couple folks from the water department and one or two from another department. so this is not supported by the fire union. fundamentally this is about safety. and i'm happy to report that the vast majority of city employees, 30,000 strong, are complying with the requirement to register their vaccine status. we have 34 departments, 19 are at 100% compliance, another nine are at 99%, another four at 92% or higher. so the outliers are police and fire. as you said our police are at 71% and our fire department is over 80% as of this morning. the vast majority of police and

fire are vaccinated. 84% plus are vaccinated. this is not about the vaccine, but i'm determined to make sure we maximize our opportunity to have a safe work place. and the only way is to get people vaccinated. >> so here in new york city, mayor lightfoot, firefighters, police officers may stop showing up for work if they have to be forced to get this shot. obviously your crime has spiked again this year. you can't afford to lose police officers. are you prepared to do that over this, though? >> we're really not seeing that. we've got over 12,000 employees in the police department. there's 21 that have refused orders to register. i don't expect us to see any significant reduction in the number of members that are ready, willing and able to work. they've sworn an oath and our residents expect them to abide

by their oath and not act like they are above the law. we're giving them the responsibility to enforce the law. they need to make sure they are accountable themselves. and the vast majority are. as i said, this really isn't about the vaccine mandate. this is about a failed attempt by union leader to be relevant and members are not following his lead. >> do you have any fear of losing police officers? >> you know, look, i think what i'm most concerned about is we're focused by keeping our cities safe and secure. having this strife with the police union is not helpful. it certainly isn't. it doesn't help public perception of the police. police have a really difficult job. they literally put their lives on the line every single day for us, and having this kind of uproar by a union for reasons that don't make any sense other than politics, delegitimizes the police in the eyes of the vast

majority of our residents at a time we need to rally. we have two common enemies in our city. one is the pandemic, the other are guns and gangs. those are our enemies. we should be united in fighting them not each other. >> mayor, obviously crime in chicago, murders in chicago, it's been an ongoing crisis for years, do you feel like you're making any progress in that area? obviously the numbers have exploded since last year. what is the hope for chicago residents? what's the hope for residents in cities across america? what needs to be done to drive down homicide rates? >> well, we are making progress in chicago. we have a homicide clearance rate that's about 45%. certainly below what we expect, but better than we've been in about five or six years. we cleared more murders this year than we have in the last

ten years. so we're seeing progress being made, but there's no question that the covid-related impact on the public safety system in chicago, in new york, in l.a., d.c., and other cities across the country, is real. and what we have to continue to do is make sure that we're demanding of our courts and our prosecutors that they hold violent people accountable and keep them off our streets. it's a huge issue for us in chicago and we have to continue fighting that fight and then we have to play the long game at getting at the root causes of the violence which is poverty, lack of investment, lack of jobs and lack of hope. we have to disrupt the pipeline of young souls that are going to the streets and subject to the predatory tactics of the gangs by giving them hope in a future that isn't minding somebody's corner spot. >> mayor lightfoot, i'm sure you're aware of the massive amount of publicity given by the

media to a single murder in the desert outside of santa fe, new mexico, on a movie set featuring alec baldwin. how does it strike you when you see such massive publicity given to this story when every day in chicago the combination of gangs, guns, and young people dying is an every day occurrence, sadly, given very little note? >> what i'd like to see more of is recognizing the human toll taken with the guns and violence we're experiencing in chicago and in cities across the country. the victims are forgotten. we can't forget them. i'd like to see the media tell those stories. it is disheartening. i meet with victims groups on a regular basis on the heartache that they experience, the

devastation and losing a loved one and being injured themselves, i would like to see more of those stories told because they're real and the trauma is real. >> mayor, thanks so much for being with us this morning. we appreciate it. does president biden really have a deal on the social spending agenda. we will ask senator amy klobuchar what she knows about the fast-moving developments. we'll be right back. ight back. with relapsing forms of ms... there's a lot to deal with. not just unpredictable relapses. all these other things too.

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so much to talk to you about. terry is in a league of his own. he is an interesting guy, a hard campaigner. tell me what you saw in virginia and on the ground and how you think that race is going. >> i think terry will pull this off as he always has. he's a true leader. right now when you look at where we are, we see the white house on the horizon with the pandemic getting better and better. it's time to put someone in there. this is what terry is about, about the economy, bringing in jobs. and that's my basic pitch for the people of virginia. i personally think he has this incredible energy. i think that's what's on a lot of people's minds as well as the health care safety net and not

putting an extreme governor in. and we've seen what just happened in texas. >> senator, we will get to the deal that may be coming together this morning. first, breaking news that the economy has slowed down last quarter to 2%. in part because of the delta variant but also shortages. the supply chain shortages is causing scenes in american stores that i've never seen in my 58 years of life. you walk in to pick up something and it looks like what we called the old soviet safeway in washington, d.c., that had half the shelves completely cleared. how do we fix the supply chain and get this economy going again? >> getting control on the delta variant because it's not just in our country, it's all over the

world and you're seeing these problems. you have a factory shut down here and employment issues. number one, we have to make sure we get the vaccines out not just in our country but all over the world. number two, workforce issues and that means training and that's one of the reasons i'm so in favor of the build back better agenda. it means to me immigration reform in areas like in my state if you have shortages, doing something about a path to citizenship and getting this done would be a major game changer. the next thing i would do is something the president is focused on getting the infrastructure, the ports going again. that we have the people to do the work, to bring products into our stores.

i've had the same experience ordering online or going into the local grocery store, but i think americans understand why we got here and the key is we need the steady leadership to get through. and that's a lot about what we're debating now, joe, as difficult as it is to watch all of these negotiations back and forth and to be in the middle of it, my personal obsession is prescription drugs, why we're paying more than any other country in the world is completely outrageous and getting those negotiations through, why we want to get this done. i look forward hearing from the president today. >> good morning, senator. it's willie geist. the white house is saying this morning and telling nbc news it expects full democratic support for this massive spending plan that he will pitch in just a few minutes where you are. all democrats in the senate

support this bill? >> we want to see what the framework is. i'm only smiling because you know all the negotiations going on in the senate right now. clearly there's been progress made. i think everyone knows, already proposed. what's important to the people of america is what's in this. so key with broad band and bridges and with transitioning to electric cars and the like. this bill is about child care and what i hope will be a paid family leave proposal of some type. the women of this country finally getting some help with paid family leave.

that's the debate. senator manchin signaled just yesterday that he might be open to some paid family leave. we've got to have a vigorous negotiation provision in there and do something to bring down the prices. aarp is on our side. this is not a liberal moderate issue. you have a bunch of people in the democratic party who wants to do something about prescription drugs. this is about one senator and a few members of the house, and i am hopeful with president biden's leadership we can come to some kind of agreement. it won't be everything i want but to do something about prescription drugs. >> let me go back to paid family leave. you've been an advocate.

can you live with a bill that does not include a plan. >> there's a reason for that because there are so many moving parts of the negotiation. i don't like this idea one guy would stand in the way of doing it. senator gillibrand has been leading the way. she doesn't give up fights and see if we can get this done. i'm looking forward to hearing from the president we are getting closer and closer to an agreement. big things take a while to get done. throughout history we know that and things have taken a long time that are meaningful like the affordable care act, civil

rights legislation, maybe the difference now is there's a tweet every day and a tweet every minute and we have all these archaic rules of the senate that i wish we could change that are constraining us. but there is a good faith leadership from senator schumer and speaker pelosi to get this done. >> amy, good morning. >> hey, claire. >> as i think people realize you and i have a lot in common, both former prosecutors, both people who appreciate a good sense of humor. we both had a lifesaving mammogram that disclosed breast cancer very early. and both of us were able to address breast cancer in a timely way that it was not life threatening. i know last year was a terrible year because of the pandemic. i know you are working on a bipartisan basis to address this.

why don't you explain what you think you can do in the senate and in congress to really save lives for women across this country to help them, encourage them to get the mammograms that saved our lives. >> thanks, claire. you were an inspiration to me how you kept going throughout this. when i found out i had it, everyone has that moment of terror when you get that call. and then, what did claire do? i went in and my chances are about like anyone else out there. that's because i got that mammogram. i delayed it during the pandemic. we have 20% less women getting mammograms in 2020 and 2019. the vaccine is out there and how safe it is and it's time to get the preventative care. this bill with susan collins is

about getting that message out there right now. getting mammograms to people who might not be able to get them because the sooner you can save lives. i learned every day is a gift and the gratitude i have for the doctors and nurses i want to turn that back into action and that means joining with my colleagues, getting treated to get the word out there. and don't use the pandemic as an excuse anymore. >> i know the inbox for the white house, the inbox for the senate has been pretty extraordinary this past year. you wrote a book that we've talked about both on and off the show about antitrust law, about

monopolies, it seems that over the past several weeks with the leaked documents, facebook has been front and center in the news in that time. the question remains will this administration, will the united states senate hold monopolies like facebook to account? >> answer, we must. people have been listening to the lobbyists when they say just trust us. i think the whistle-blower punctured that balloon when she started talking that day because hundreds of pages i've written, highly recommended by me, or the hearings that i've had on app stores and the like, when you start talking about how the tech companies have messed around with people's kids, how it makes

it harder and harder for parents to try to raise their children when they're up against the head winds of getting directed to bad accounts and bad sites when it comes to eating disorders like i am perfect or starve or starve real hard for parents to do their job. so the answer is one of federal privacy law, the answer is making sure that we've got our laws updated when it comes to kids on the internet. the answer is my stuff on competition, major bipartisan bill, praised by "the washington post" editorial page just last weekend, which says you can't start self-preferencing your products and exclude other things. you have got to have a fair marketplace on the internet. and then finally, doing something about algorithms and transparency. one mom said to hakeem jeffries and myself yesterday, she said i

feel like every day the sink is filling with water as i'm trying to raise my kids and trying to protect them with filters and the like and it's overflowing and i'm sitting out there with a mop trying to protect them. and that image is one i'm going to keep using. that's from a mom out there trying to do her job as a parent. i think you're going to see, finally, push back on the tech companies. >> a mom who understands all the challenges presented these days. senators thank you so much for being with us. it's always great talking to you. >> okay. let's watch for this deal. i'm looking forward to getting it done. thank you, everyone. >> thank you and good luck. and now more from those thousands of internal documents from facebook that were released to congress. the documents reveal the company's employees confirm that far right politicians in poland say something that they already knew, that the site amplifies hateful content. and the new report from "the

washington post," most of poland's political leaders expressed concerns with what they describe as a social civil war. but those in the country's far right party admit they lean into the, quote, hate algorithm and tell the post, i think we are good with emotional messages. and in internal documents discussing the site's formula, one facebook employee compared the promotion of hateful content to eating fast food. we can choose to be idle and keep feeding users fast food but that only works for so long. many have already caught on to the fact that fast food is linked to obesity and therefore its short term value is not worth the long term cost and that cost is felt here in america and places like poland and across the world. >> let's bring in foreign reporter john pomfret. the that are of the book "from

warsaw with love". john, thank you so much for being with us. what an absolutely fascinating book, story. you have a polish government who had not elected a democratic government since the 1930s, suddenly they're being asked to help the united states. in a really harrowing mission in iraq. tell us about it. >> so this was a 1990 when we had six american intelligence officers stuck in baghdad. and we looked around for many countries to help us out and the polls basically volunteered. and the cia from the '70s and '80s, from the cold war when they battled poland, knew the spies were good. so they tasked this eastern european officer, 6'5", mustache, blue eyes, to go to

iraq, save the americans, exfiltrate them out of iraq to safety. >> and he, of course, had been working against the united states for most of his life as a cold war spy, obviously on the soviet side. >> exactly. so suddenly with the cia's outreach to the polish intelligence with the fall of the berlin wall he finds himself working on the other side of the cold war and helping the united states. that creates this blood bond between the two services and polish operatives begin working for the united states around the world. >> one thing that a reader of your book will find interesting that we may not know just by reading the newspaper, it reminds me during the middle of the gulf war the -- well, the iraq war, the second iraq war when i was being harshly critical of the french who were

pushing back so hard and, working against us in the united nations. i had an intel friend call me up and go, hey, joe, be quiet. the french are our allies on so many fronts. some of the best intel agents in the world. they're our allies. i said, good to know. i'll file that one away. but the same can be said of pols, extraordinarily effective in spying and their intel community, great allies to have. >> exactly. that's a great point, joe. it's interesting in 2001, the cia director called the intelligence relationship we had with poland the second best intelligence relationship the united states has had in its history. so it's been under the radar, who knew that they had been operating on our behalf for decades. >> jon, this is obviously not your first rodeo investigating things like this. and our intelligence

relationship with poland developed to the point where black sites were located in poland and members of al qaeda were shipped in for interrogation, that's in quotes. what's the relationship as it continues? what's the relationship between the intelligence community in poland and the united states today? stronger? better? loser? >> part of the problem is the pols felt burned by the black sites issue. they claimed they had no idea what was going on in this interrogation site, they weren't allowed into the sites when the interrogations, as you call them, happened. and the other problem is they assumed the cia wouldn't leak on it. >> when the cia leaked on it, they were left holding the bag. after the sites shut, they continued to spy on our behalf, specifically iran where we didn't have access to. but the relationship has cooled over time since countries have

identified poland as a staunch ally of america. so it's natural the relationship cools down. >> a great line in the book from an old polish hand. talk about, for us, why the polls think being a close ally with america is like being married to a hippo. >> the hippo story. well, you know, as you said, in the beginning being married to a hippo, it's warm and cuddly. then the hippo turns and crushes you and doesn't even notice. >> the new book is "from warsaw with love, polish spies, the cia and the forging of an unlikely alliance". an extraordinary book, get it, you'll love it. that does it for us this morning. stephanie rhule picks up the coverage right after a final quick break. k break.

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