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democrats but it basically means tuesday was just a bag night as opposed to an outright disaster. the finger pointing, of course, has already started from the white house to congress to local officials. everybody trying to pin these losses on somebody else. but the more time democrats spend arguing about what went wrong on tuesday, the less time they actually spend on fixing it. i want to dig deeper and have the perfect team of guests to help me do that. nbc white house correspondent monica alba, former democratic senator from new jersey, bob, former white house press secretary under president obama, robert gibbs, and former republican new jersey governor and epa administrator christy todd whitman. senator, to you first. big picture. what went wrong for democrats this week? was it a lot of little things that were specific to virginia and new jersey, or is there a bigger problem here? >> well, i think -- >> it was both. >> obviously, it comes down to local politics and you can see that terry mcauliffe made some

big mistakes when he said things like parents shouldn't be part of their children's education or shouldn't tell teachers what to teach at a time when that critical race theory, even though it wasn't being taught in virginia or anywhere else that i can figure, that's what people were focused on, so he was a little bit tone deaf. he didn't reach out to his base in the way that he should. here in new jersey, what happened was that jack decided -- jack ciattarelli, the republican candidate, decided that he wanted to hone very close to the republican base, the more -- the very much more conservative base, and what that tells you as far as i'm concerned is while you want to, because youngkin accepted trump but wouldn't let him near him, what it tells you is the conservative values, the conservative message works but not if you link yourself to trump. republicans have to be very careful and democrats have to understand that they're in charge in washington in everybody's mind and they can't get anything done so mcauliffe,

in fairness, had nothing to point to say, look, i'm a democrat, look at the great things we've done in washington, when they haven't. it's a little bit of everything. local politics and the national scene. >> but senator, we keep hearing over and over, democrats say, if we had passed more, if we had passed the president's agenda, we would have had a clear win in new jersey, a win in virginia. is there an argument to be made, maybe people were voting against build back better, right? the more spending, the more people are concerned about inflation and the economy is the number one issue for all sorts of people. >> actually, if you look at the numbers this morning, we're starting to see, as she suggested, it's a complex picture. for one, the base of the democratic party did not come out. turnout was at a record low and specifically in inner cities and much of the base of the party. combined with what christy whitman is suggesting,

republicans did turn out. i think you have to look at what began with the collapse in afghanistan through the chaos on capitol hill and the debacle at the border. and there's been a general lack of confidence in the biden administration. and even though there are new jersey specific problems that led to this close election, that overlay, as in virginia, is unmistakable. >> mr. gibbs, in some strange way, could this end up being a positive for joe biden in that he was willing to sign the hard infrastructure bill over the summer and hasn't been able to get progressives to budge. this might change that. >> stephanie, i think you're absolutely right. look, i think this has to be a wake-up call for a huge part of, if not all of the democratic party. and i think every democrat that understands that it's a wake-up call and starts to change and do things differently will be the beneficiary of this. we don't have to have this same feeling of glumness and defeat a

year from now if we take and understand what's happened now and start to fix it. like, i think the national political environment right now is terrible and i don't think that's altogether surprising. senator torricelli talked about what happened in afghanistan. i think before that, the delta variant of covid changed what we had hoped was going back to normal in late july and early august. it's been three long kind of hard months, lots of bickering on capitol hill, not a lot of signs the democrats are capable of governing and understanding crisis. and we have rising gas and good prices, so i think there's just a lot right now that pulling against the party that's in power and in these races, that seemed like democrats. >> governor, you are part of this new renew america movement, trying to create sort of a republican party without donald trump. does glenn youngkin's win help you do that? >> i think so.

i very definitely think so. again, because what i said before, the fact that he -- while he accepted donald trump's endorsement, he didn't embrace it. and while he talked very conservatively in the more red parts of the state, the more rural parts of virginia, when he got to the suburbs and up by washington, d.c., he was far more moderate, and so again, i think that message is, all right, there are these issues about which conservatives care deeply, and we can agree on some of those, but don't go to the extremes that donald trump has done. and so, what we've been saying is if you're a republican and you have a far-right republican candidate versus a centrist democrat, vote for the democrat and democrats, if you have a far left candidate and a centrist republican, vote for the republican because this country does better when you have two centrist parties, center left and center right because as senator torricelli will tell you, that's the only way you get

things done, when you have both sides working together on these major issues. >> senator torricelli, to that point, we always hear, you said already, you got to fire up the base. firing up the base didn't get bernie sanders elected as a democratic president and firing up the base didn't get donald trump a second term. is firing up the base not the answer? and instead, waking up to where the majority of the country is and that's people who don't care about politics, don't like government, and just want to live their lives. they kind of live in the middle, quietly. >> yeah, but the threshold, the test, always with administration is simply, is competence and whether there's governance, and there simply has appeared in the last few months to be too much of a sense of chaos. i would -- i would suggest this goes to -- somewhat to robert's point at the moment. i was listening to the news this morning. i heard somebody suggest joe biden was not elected to be fdr.

he was elected for a very specific set of purposes, to give governance to the country and to end the chaos. i think that should be remembered as we go into this final stretch of the reconciliation bill. get something done, which the american people can understand and can afford. if you can do some modest family leave -- paid family leave, do it. by all means, do the preschool and do the climate change. get something done that is the core of that bill that shows real progress. then let's move on. you can come -- hopefully come back in future years. neither the base of the party understands everything you're trying to do, and the swing voters in the country, the broad electorate, it doesn't support it. they need to recalibrate. >> that was abigail spanberger who said that, and she certainly knows virginia voters. monica, understanding all of that, where does the white house go from here? it wasn't a surprise yesterday that they pushed back on congress saying, see, you should have passed my agenda, but maybe

we'll get a vote today. maybe not. >> yeah, there's a bit of a blame game mode at the white house and also on capitol hill, a circular firing squad, finger pointing, all of it happening this morning within the democratic party because they have to do some soul-searching here on the path forward. the president did argue his main takeaway was that voters were not happy with the inaction in terms of his economic agenda and that had something passed, maybe it would have made a difference. he said he didn't want to have to wednesday morning quarterback too much about that. he doesn't know whether that would have actually had an impact, but he does want to try to galvanize the momentum going forward, making that pitch. but just today, we're hearing from different democrats about their takeaways and some of them are saying the lesson may have actually been to slow down and get this right, to your point, maybe voters were actually rejecting what the president and this white house had put on the table. so there are different factions within the party now trying to

argue the process forward, which leaves us in a not very different place than where we were weeks ago on how this was perhaps going to move forward. so, the president, again, has nothing on his public schedule today. it's unclear whether we'll hear from him but there will be the first white house press briefing since those key results in virginia, in new jersey, across the nation, so we're going to get their messaging and spin on all of this and they are, i'm told, going to put extreme pressure on congress to try to act, to see if they can get these votes done, but we know from critical senators like joe manchin that not everybody is on board yet with that plan, steph, so the president has to decide, is he making another trip to capitol hill? is he calling lawmakers? we just don't know what kind of urgency now he has to try to get this done. >> i don't know. i would say the president making the big show last week on capitol hill, that was as extreme as pressure could be, and we still haven't seen a vote. mr. gibbs, i want to share a part of what kevin mccarthy said yesterday.

watch this. >> if they continue to push these policies, it could be one of the biggest election losses for democrats. if you're a democrat, the president biden won your seat by 16 points, you're in a competitive race next year. you are no longer safe. >> yeah, yeah, yeah, there's not too many democrats taking notes based on what kevin mccarthy is telling them but what do you think about that? >> well, i think that's what kevin mccarthy would like to think and believe, and i think somebody should tell kevin mccarthy that election day 2022 will not be last tuesday. so, look, i think this has to be, again, as i said earlier, a wake-up call. there's no doubt that, you know, we had a state in new jersey that joe biden won by 16 that became a toss-up state, a state in virginia that joe biden won by ten and democrats lost by two. there's no doubt the ground has shifted. >> okay, but then hold on.

how does a guy like kevin mccarthy -- how does a guy like kevin mccarthy, who bows at the altar of trump, make that argument? joe biden won new jersey by 16 and what did new jersey do? they almost voted for a republican. isn't the takeaway, they'll vote for anything but trump? >> well, look, i think trump's going to play an interesting role in this. i think democrats have to be careful not to assume that the only thing we have to do is mention that republicans equal trump and somehow we're going to win these races. i don't think that's the case. but look, that's not to say donald trump's going to go away. donald trump's going to think that last tuesday -- tuesday was a result of him and everything he's done. so, he's going to play a big role. i just don't want democrats to think all you have to do is roll out the boogeyman of donald trump and that's going to solve all our problems. we've proved that's not the case on tuesday. we proved that's not the case in virginia. we saw a huge increase in republican turnout so there's a lot of things democrats have to be focused on.

>> well, you all just made us smarter this morning. governor, senator, monica, robert, thank you so much. we're going to leave it there and i mentioned it before. the gridlock over president biden's agenda could actually be breaking up maybe today. a house vote on those two bills, possibly today, maybe tomorrow. it will be good to see. leigh ann caldwell joins us. eugene daniels also with us, the coauthor of politico play look. leigh ann, we've heard this before. is this groundhog day or is something actually happening? >> reporter: they've missed so many deadlines, eventually you have to visit hit one of them. now, in all seriousness, there is, i'm told, a growing frustration among all members that something just needs to get done, that they need to wrap this up. yet, in a closed door caucus meeting, speaker pelosi suggested to her members that

she would prefer a vote on the build back better $1.75 trillion bill before the bipartisan infrastructure bill. we don't know exactly what the reaction was other than multiple members telling me that the overwhelming feeling is that they just want to vote. they are sick and tired of talking about this and they just want to get this done. >> okay, but they just want to vote? they just want to vote, assuming the vote goes through. they don't just want to vote. >> reporter: well, there's a small minority, there are five members, who are waiting for an analysis from the congressional budget office or the joint committee on taxation to see how, in fact, this bill -- how much it will cost and if the pay fors are, in fact, real. we're told that that analysis is going to come out as early as today and hopefully that will be sufficient enough for them to hold this vote. and so, they do have to appease some members who want to slow it

down, like a couple moderates but they are an overwhelming minority in this party who believe that things just need to get done and they need to stop talking about it, steph. >> eugene, the president, i mentioned it, went to democrats a week ago and said he had a framework everyone could get behind and now we've got democrats adding things. they've put back paid leave, put the s.a.l.t. deduction in, immigration proposal, all of this is now back in the bill so why wasn't the president's framework the final word? >> yeah, i mean, he also said and the white house said over and over last week that this would get unanimous and had unanimous support from democrats and that they felt -- it seemed like they felt they had these assurances. that is obviously not the case. and the reason is because congress knows they have a lot of the power here. the president, despite being as powerful as he is and as much being the leader of his party, he is not the one that holds all the levers here. you have members of congress

with these very slim majorities. they can do what they want and gum up the works. we've seen that over and over again so the white house obviously, they're still involved, still having these conversations, but it all seems like there's a sense they have laid down what they wanted and now a lot of this is on the senate and even more specifically joe manchin, right? so the conversations they have about pulling out things, putting them in, especially with paid leave, is because some of the reaction and blowback they've received from voters. paid leave, especially, is one of those things that voters have said over and over they want to see happen in this country. on both sides of the aisle. and joe manchin has made it clear he doesn't want it in this bill because he doesn't think it should go through the reconciliation process but when you talk to other democrats, what they say is, okay, fine, joe manchin, if you don't want this in this bill, this reconciliation bill, and you think it should have to get 60 votes, then you have to figure out how to get us those 10 republican votes. he has already proven, they say, not to be able to do that with

the voting rights legislation that he also didn't want to see. >> but hold on. if that's the case, you had said a moment ago, people on both sides of the aisle back paid leave. wouldn't that mean republicans would vote for it? >> they might. that's the thing. but you also have to remember, and you know this, we all know this, there are things that republicans agree with to this day that they don't want to give democrats a win on. and so there's so much politics at play here, they don't want to give a win, even if they do agree with it, even if when donald trump was president, he talked about paid leave so much. >> here's a novel idea. you could focus on a win for your constituents. eugene, leigh ann, thank you both so much. i feel like leigh ann is at such a disadvantage there on capitol hill. eugene has the candle behind him, the cashmere turtleneck working today. he always comes to play. coming up, breaking news this morning, new vaccine requirements coming from the white house, but you need to

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as the death toll in the united states from covid-19 surpasses 750,000 americans, the biden administration is unveiling brand-new vaccine mandates. according to new osha guidelines just released, employers with 100 or more employees as well as workers at facilities participating in medicare and medicaid must be fully vaccinated by january 4th or face weekly testing. the administration also says that employers must provide paid time off for their workers to get their shots. one thing not being mentioned, any sort of religious exemption. this is very big. joining us now to discuss, physician and former obama white

house health policy director dr. kavita patel. kavita, break down these new rules for us because the religious exemption is what all sorts of people were trying to sort of hang on to. >> right. yeah, stephanie, this is pretty significant and i would argue probably further even than what i had anticipated and i think it's clear the biden administration is trying to lay down a pretty bright line. they do allow for what are considered contraindications which would likely mention medical exemptions but religious exemptions are not included. that is something that is true in states like new york and california, where those such exemptions, for example, in school children are not allowed so it's not unusual but as you mentioned, there are pretty strict requirements here and then for 21 states that actually have their own workplace enforcement laws, the federal government has said you have 30 days from today to deliver on something even stricter or equal to what osha put out today. >> we should note that just moments ago we learned that the

republican attorney general in the state of missouri is looking to sue to fight these new mandates. i also want to ask you, and other breaking medical news, the united kingdom just approved merck's oral antiviral drug t one that fights covid infections. i know the fda is scheduled to evaluate this pill later this month. to an unvaccinated person, somebody sitting at home seeing this news, why should they still get the vaccine if they're learning that safe, effective medications could soon be available? >> yeah, one reason and one reason alone. the medications don't work all the time. we know the vaccines prevent death and prevent severe hospitalizations all the time. so, those are pretty clear reasons to err on the side of vaccination. plus, stephanie, as you point out, the fda is obviously expediting this review but it's, like with other drugs, it's not something that you might get a diagnosis today of covid-19 and then be able to get tomorrow, just because there are supply

limitations and it requires you getting a prescription for it and that can all cause a delay during that precious time when you're diagnosed with covid-19 and we know that those hours can turn into days in an icu. so that's a reason to be vaccinated. but this is good news for people who are vaccinated, who are at high risk or have some of those breakthrough infections as we know that people might not get their boosters as they should six months after their second dose if they have high-risk conditions and for those people, this is an incredible tool on top of what we already have. and other countries don't have as highly effective vaccines, for example, many countries are relying on vaccines way below the efficacy of what we see in ours in the united states so this is a global solution that should -- but vaccines should be the first solution. >> we may be living with covid but we are getting more tools in our toolbox to fight it. dr. patel, always good to see you. you always make us safer and smarter. coming up, officials keep saying inflation is temporary, but here's the thing.

gas prices, grocery prices, higher and higher, making people worried about what's happening now. not in the future. we'll ask one lawmaker who says biden is dropping the ball and what should be done next. dpprod what should be done next [laughing and giggling] (woman) hey dad. miss us? (vo) reflect on the past, celebrate the future. season's greetings from audi.

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the markets will be opening any second now with futures flat after yesterday's major announcement from the federal reserve. the fed says they are pulling back on the emergency economic support that they started when

the pandemic hit. fed chair jay powell also said he thinks the inflation we're seeing the temporary but said it could still last into next year. i want to bring in cnbc's senior economics reporter, steve leaseman. explain this move from powell. what is the fed doing? >> they are gradually reducing the stimulus they put in place. they've been out there buying a lot of treasuries, trying to bring the interest rate down in addition to keeping rates at zero and now what they're going to do is instead of buying $120 billion of treasuries and mortgages every month, they're going to buy $105 billion and bring it down every month, a taper. and the reason is because the fed feels like the economy has come back at least most of the way from where it was in the pandemic. and it feels like it doesn't need quite as much support but it's a gradual withdrawal and it's not really set to raise interest rates until next year. >> steve liesman, thank you so much.

i want to bring in congressman kevin brady, a republican from the state of texas and the ranking member of the tax writing ways and means committee. congressman, always good to see you. when it comes to monetary policy, that is on the fed. i know you think the biden administration is dropping the ball, they need to pay attention to inflation. what does the fed need to do? >> yeah, so, i think one, stop making things worse. they've really been in denial. i get frustrated with the fed because i think they've been in big denial about the labor shortage for way too long, certainly about inflation. i think they're trying to sell this transitory but it doesn't feel that way. >> what do you want them to do? >> so, one, stop making it worse would be the first thing. i think this tapering is a little bit of a help but they're still pushing congress to go big on more stimulus spending and they're not addressing the labor shortage in any way. i get frustrated because covid isn't the problem with inflation or the labor shortage. that was already present in the

economy in a bad way before the delta variant showed up, but in this new spending package, for example, beyond over a trillion dollars of crippling tax hikes, including on small businesses, there are a couple programs that actually discourage americans from reconnecting to work. the new child tax credit will no longer be tied to earnings so it becomes a welfare program. >> why does that -- hold on a second. why does that discourage people from going to work? here's an example. i can afford -- hold on. i can afford child care. it's very, very expensive in the united states, because i can afford child care, i can go to work. with the expanded child tax credit, people will be able to pay for child care in this country so they, in fact, can go out and work. if i'm only making minimum wage -- >> actually, they're not. stephanie, they're not. two new studies, one that shows the child tax credit for covid was spent mainly on retirement

and savings, not a bad thing but not its intended purpose. secondly, it didn't reach nine of the ten poorest americans who didn't -- who don't work, who don't have tax records, who don't know how to interact with the treasury and the irs, and so it even missed its mark there. here's the challenge. >> hold on a second. it didn't -- hold on a second, sir. it didn't exclude those people. if those are people who don't currently file taxes, if they don't communicate with the irs, it hasn't reached them yet. it's going to take some time to get the process to work. it's not that they were excluded. >> perhaps. but right now, nine out of ten are not getting help. secondly, do we really, at a time we desperately need workers, are we smart to send about 1.5 million people exiting the workforce with the child tax credit no longer tied to earnings or work? this is not the time to be erecting barriers to reconnecting the jobless to a

job, just the opposite. >> well, one could argue it's always a good time to lift children out of poverty. i want to talk infrastructure. >> stephanie, it didn't. that's the point. it didn't lift it out of poverty. what did, though? the tax cuts and jobs act by republicans lifted millions out of poverty within a year of being put in place and drove wages up to pay for child care, for example, among hispanics, blacks, women, disabled, in a way we didn't see at all the last time joe biden was in the white house. >> let's talk about those republican tax cuts, because they got rid of the state and local tax deductions and -- >> they limited it. >> limited them. democrats are looking to bring those back. you argue that it is a giveaway to the wealthy. why shouldn't we help high tax states like new jersey where people are saying, i have to leave the state, i can't afford to live here? what they're doing is moving to cheaper states like yours, texas. >> one, that's their -- one,

these are great states, by the way. people love living there. but they just are brutally taxed. >> all states are great. >> that's why they're leaving. secondly, why should the building janitor who doesn't itemize subsidize the occupants of the penthouse who gets in under reviewing the tax cap, the majority goes to millionaire and billionaire households, why is that fair and why should low tax states subsidize high tax states? it is a giveaway to the wealthy and today, as we talk, it is the number one reason they're not moving forward on this big tax and spend bill. they can't figure out how to give this tax windfall to the wealthy. >> well, sir, on your next visit to new jersey, you're going to have to take know see all those penthouses because i know a lot of hard-working people there who are hoping this changes. congressman kevin brady. >> they need to change the governor. thank you, stephanie. >> maybe next election. didn't happen. coming up, education was a

top issue in tuesday's election. i'll speak with a former education secretary who's now running for governor of maryland about how his party may look to change their approach when it comes to kids and school. or at least his approach. he's the expert. ol or at least his approach he's the expert. still fresh unstopables in-wash scent booster downy unstopables >> tech: when you get a chip in your windshield... trust safelite. this couple was headed to the farmers market... when they got a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech: that's service the way you need it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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education is an issue that has traditionally been a plus for democrats, but it helped virginia's republican governor-elect, glenn youngkin, win in a big way on tuesday. according to nbc news, education was one of the top two issues for virginia voters. number one for nearly a quarter of them. among those voters, 53% voted for youngkin. clearly, the debate over critical race theory was a big part of it, despite the fact that critical race theory is not in any of the curriculum, but it's more than that. here's "new york times" jeremy peters. >> the youngkin campaign capitalized on anger and anxiety and frustrations over -- from

parents who are still dealing with the traumatic effects of trying to teach their kids at home and hold down their own jobs. >> on top of that, there is still a lot of frustration over how much damage has already been done to our kids' education. one analysis found that on average, the pandemic put kids five months behind in math and four months behind in reading in just the last year alone. so right now, i want to bring in john king, former education secretary under president obama. he spent the last several years running the education trust, which tries to close the achievement gap for students of color. he's currently running for governor of the state of maryland. first things first. critical race theory is not being taught to kids, but republicans are out there pumping these lies everywhere. should democrats be out there using those same social media channels to set the record straight? >> absolutely. we have to make clear that what

we're interested in is making sure we teach the truth of our history. i'm talking to you from silver spring, maryland, where i live, about 25 miles from where my great-grandfather was enslaved. that's real. that happened. that's part of our history. everyone agrees we should teach the truth of our history. what we have to address is this dog whistle around critical race theory that's really being used to send a false message about what's happening in our classroom. >> so, how much of this education debate, all these people who are saying, education is the top priority, how much of it is solely about critical race theory? and how much is it about parents' frustrations over covid restrictions in schools, learning loss, right, we saw parents saying, why are -- going to board meetings, not parents screaming and yelling, but saying, why is it that my kids' school is closed and down the block, there's a private school and it's open every day in-person? >> yeah, we have to acknowledge

that in the early days of covid, there was not adequate commitment from the trump administration to testing, to masking, to the things that were necessary to help schools reopen safely. we've gotten to a much better place. schools are operating safely. now, the key is to make up for the impact that covid has had on kids and families, parents, including me, we're rightly concerned. how do we make up for the unfinished learning that kids have? and also, how do we address the very real social and emotional needs for kids who missed that time with peers, with teachers, kids who suffered at home because their family lost income, lost homes, lost jobs, or even kids who have lost loved ones? we've got a lot to tackle. one of the things i've called for is a national tutoring corps. i think we should mobilize young recent college graduates, retired teachers, to provide intensive tutoring so we can help make up for some of that unfinished learning. >> then, given what happened in virginia, education is core to

your platform. is it causing you to recalibrate your own strategy or double down on it? >> it's really a matter of doubling down on the importance of education to the health of our economy and our democracy. i hope people will look at our plan at johnkingforgovernor.com. what they'll see is a commitment to universal child care. that's an education invest investment because of the research on early childhood development and how much it matters but it's also an economic strategy. if we want folks to be able to work, we have to make sure they can access affordable child care. we need to invest in k-12 if we want to have the workforce we need for 21st century jobs. we have thousands of open jobs in cybersecurity and in maryland and across the d.c. metro region, we can fill those jobs but folks need good training and that starts with quality high school career ed programs, quality programs at our community colleges, so education remains core to the democratic

message. we just have to make sure we're clear about how we're trying to make sure government is a force for good in people's lives. >> social and economic mobility start with a foundation of strong education. john, always good to see you. thank you for joining us. coming up, quarterback aaron rodgers said he was immunized but now he's got covid. we're digging into that story on the other side of the break. 'ren the other side of the break. ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ discover card i just got my cashback match is this for real? yup! we match all the cash back new card members earn at the end of their first year automatically

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with the u.s. still averaging more than 73,000 new coronavirus cases each day, the reigning most valuable player in the nfl joined that group this week. aaron rodgers, the quarterback for the green bay packers, sidelined for this weekend's game after testing positive for covid-19. in august, rodgers told reporters that he had been, quote, immunized. >> are you vaccinated and what's you status on the vaccinations? >> yeah, i'm immunized. there's guys on the team that haven't been vaccinated. i think it's a personal decision. i'm not going to judge those guys. >> joining us now is pro football talk's mike florie. michael, let's start with people who have been vaccinated can get covid-19 but that's not what this is about. he was clearly -- i should say, he certainly seems to be intentionally misleading when he answered that question. he nodded. they said, have you been vaxxed? he nodded, and i've been

immunized. other people haven't been vaxxed. so, has he been misleading his team and the nfl and what's the punishment going to be for that? >> well, stephanie, he hasn't been misleading his team or the nfl because they know who is and isn't vaccinated. because the players who aren't tested every single day. the players who are vaccinated are tested once per week. the league and the packers have known about this from the get-go. he tried to get an exemption based upon a homeopathic treatment he received that he believes increased his antibodies where the point it's the same as being vaccinated. the nfl denied that. they've known but the rest of us haven't. he lied not to the league or the packers, he lied to the rest of us answering the question the way he did and he's smart enough to know what the message was even though he used the word immunized the context made it clear he was saying he was vaccinated,'s not judging his teammates who aren't, because he was creating the impression that

he is every image on the syed loans, should have been wearing a mask, should have had a mask on because he wasn't in uniform, no mask. press conferences in the team facility, in season, should have had a mask on for those. that's one of the league's protocols. everything he's done has created the impression he's vaccinated and we find out yesterday that's not. >> okay then if the team knew and the league knew that he had to follow the protocols, since we clearly saw that he didn't, are there any consequences? >> well, that's something the league is taking up now. the packers have the front line responsibility to enforce the protocols, and it's a sear yes, sir of fines and it can become more aggressive. it in theory can result in a suspension. the league is now looking into whether what extend the packers enforced and a guy who thought about retiring in the offseason, a guy who wanted to be traded

and thought he was going to be traded to a new team so the packers may have been tiptoeing on egg shells around him when it comes to this. it's interesting to see whether he was fined at any point by the packers. >> hold on, i know we're out of time but if the league knew enthe team knew, you had to look up old images of press conferences where he wasn't wearing his mask, isn't the onus on them for not enforcing anything? >> the league will say it's on the packers. >> the packers will say? >> the packers, that's what we're going to find out. we don't know what the packers will say. we'll see how aggressive the league is in pushing this. the league would just as soon everyone move on and let's not make this a bigger issue than it already is. i don't think that effort is going to be successful. >> all right, michael, thank you so much for joining us. i appreciate it. coming up, it was the press conference seen across the nation. the nation, the world. now we have the inside story of how rudy giuliani ended up

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so you can emerge your best with emergen-c. do you remember this place? four seasons, total landscaping a local business in philly where rudy giuliani who was then

trump's lawyer called this infamous press conference to peddle election lies. he meant to book the four seasons hotel but that did not stop the landscaping company from poking fun this halloween dressing it self up as the hotel itself. now a brand new msnbc documentary takes a look behind the scenes at what in god's name happened there one year ago. >> i got a call from my son, anthony, this is bigger than we think and rudy's sitting at my desk and the plaque says "boss lady." i looked at my husband, i said "i think we better get over there." >> sure did. joining us now the documentary's director chris stout and producer glen zipper. help us understand what was it like for the little landscaping business to suddenly be on the world stage and what is it like for them now? they're famous. >> actually rocked their world,

something they never knew would happen to them and handled it with aplomb. it became an international if he nom phenomena. >> i walk down new york streets and see people wearing four seasons t-shirts and it's amazing. >> it is amazing. obviously we're here to solve the mystery, what really happened? we're excited to unveil that in this film. this was a small family-owned business and thrust into the national spotlight and turned their world upside down. this film tells it from their side of the story and really see what happened to them. >> is their business much bigger

today? >> they sold $1.5 million worth of t-shirts after that. they were able to donate to local charities, people were doing their christmas cards from front of the garage door. they created this community online that transcended into the world. >> here's what i want to know, glen. rudy haters love to wear the t-shirt and love the zoom background. has rudy talked to them? how have republicans handled this? >> they just sort of shut it down. they realized they became the butt end of the joke at that point, they saw that they really there was nothing they could do to fight this and hoped it would fade away and yet a year later there's a documentary on msnbc, so it's not going away any time soon. >> i know you can't give all the secrets way. what is something that you didn't know that was a big surprise that we're going to find out?

glen? >> well for me, it was just that the family themselves -- i had presumed that they were republicans who were big trump supporters and they weren't. nor where they biden supporters. they would have supported either if they reached out for a press conference and because they're running a small business they didn't want to get in the middle of a political argument. they wanted to stay down the middle and they got thrust into this situation and once the haters pointed their guns at them, figuratively speaking, they fired back. >> i have to ask, chris, the mom, "boss lady" she went down to four seasons total landscaping that day, watching the press conference, what was it like for them? like i want to go to their house for dinner that saturday night. >> she meat us meatball subs and roast pork sandwiches.

it was almost an out of body experience for her to see this business become this stage for this national press conference, right out of frame of lawnmowers. you know what i mean? >> now for anybody watching sunday night, now they have their menu, pork sandwiches, meatballs, philly cheesesteak a nice sunday plans. chris, glen, i'll be watching this "four seasons" sunday night on msnbc. that wraps up this hour. i'm stephanie ruehl. jose diaz-balart picks up breaking news coverage right now. minutes from now top white house health officials are set to testify on the future of the national response to the pandemic. it comes amid a major breakthrough in the fight against the virus with parents now able to get kids ages 5 to 11 vaccinated. also on capitol hill, house democrats are hopeful they can