new from the white house as we come on the air. the sales pitch blitz on that $1.2 billion infrastructure bill president biden plans to sign into law sometime soon. the plan now out to have the president and his cabinet secretaries get out across the country to promote the bill that would fix our roads, bridges, so on, and now the house is trying to figure out how to get that bigger climate and social spending bill across the finish line with the house speaker targeting a vote on that for next week, but it doesn't look like tootly smooth sailing ahead. we'll break that down all as the white house gets set to respond to a court order an its new vaccine mandate. plus a new arrest in a key ransomware hacker and what that says about the doj's hope to get these under attack and we'll

hear more on the deadly astroworld stampede later in the hour. i'm hallie jackson in the nation capitol along with mike memory at the white house, leanne caldwell on capitol hill and we're also joined by tony robb, congressional economic policy reporter for "the washington post" and an msnbc contributor. mike, let me start with you here, because, boy, long road for this infrastructure to get this infrastructure deal done and passed, and there's a fairly long road ahead of them to try to get out there and sell it to make sure that americans know what's in this bill and importantly what they get out of it. >> that's right, hallie. when biden was the vice president in the obama administration he sort of lost the fight within that administration. after they passed the recovery act he said we need to take a victory lap and go out there and talk about what we've done for the american people. president obama didn't want to take that victory lap which was a credit to obama because they had so much work to get done. biden is the president and he's calling the shots and what we're hearing from the white house is

very much a victory lap in the making and a white house official laying out the cabinet taking the lead. we'll see pete buttigieg, the transportation secretary that will focus on the road and bridges and rails and deb holland, the interior secretary talking about the climate provisions. gina raimondo the commerce secretary talking about the expansion of broadband access and the epa straighter michael regan talking about climate divisions and pete buttigieg at the lead in the white house briefing room also today to kick off that sales pitch. let's listen to how he previewed what's to come here. >> what all of these investments have in common is that they will create jobs. pipe fitters to replace the pipes, electricians to recharge the ev channelling stations and you had ao builders to plug in the cars, mechanics to maintain the vehicles, driving operating them and construction rebuilding those roads and bridges. >> hallie, you've heard the president a time or two call this an infliction point for the country. well, for this white house it's very much an infliction point. it was a year ago yesterday that pb was declared the president-elect.

what was key to his elect victory in his view, the infrastructure and build back better plans that he put in front of the american people. we're now a year away and the white house feels if they are not out selling this on a daily basis showing up in districts, rural, urban, blue, red, they won't have a chance in the mid-term elections so this is key to the strategy for the victory next year but still a long way to go to get both of these components done. >> of course, there's the other piece of the president's agenda here as it relates to that broader climate and social spending plan, leanne and that's not across the finish line. the showers back next week to tackle that. how do you see that playing out? >> yeah, that's a real problem. while the president and white house is wanting to tout the bipartisan infrastructure bill there's also going to be a lot of sausage-making and wrangling up in congress on the other part of president biden's agenda that threatens to drown out the success of the bipartisan bill, so they have some messaging challenges ahead, and they have real challenges of passing the

build back better plan, the 1.75 trillion bill. of course, the house is coming in next week. they hope to pass it then. they also have to hope that they are going to get this score from the congressional budget office to say how much this actually costs and if it's actually paid for and not in the way of appeasing the five moderates who developed their score because the score was not yet there, so there's still a lot of tbd. in addition, the congress still has a lot to do before the end of the year, in addition to passing the president's agenda. they also have to fund the government by december 3rd. sometime in december they might have to once again increase or suspend the debt limit, and then they also want to pass this annual defense spending bill, defense authorization act, something that congress has done for more than 50 years and a tradition they have no interest in breaking, so the last two months of this year are going to be extremely busy for democrats

while they are also simultaneously trying to tout accomplishments of the bipartisan infrastructure bill. hallie. >> tony, you've been following all the twists and turns, too, and you're writing the rest of the year democrats will have to wade through what's described as treacherous political terrain which centrists and liberals, still not trust falling into each other's arms at this point. >> right. >> i mean, we had a big deal between centrists and liberals that allowed the infrastructure package to move forward just a few days ago and that's essentially what gave us this november 15th deadline of sorts which house speaker nancy pelosi has pledged to start considering the rest of the democrats' spending ambitions. that being said, there's a lot of concern among liberals that moderates still want to cut back the $1.75 trillion package and there's a lot of concern about moderates that that package isn't simply paid for and that's on top of a whole host of unresolved policy challenges

around immigration and drug reform and tax policy that's got to get hammered out, not just in the house and in the senate, where we still hear that senator joe manchin and other centrists aren't super sold on this package, so there's a lot that has to be done to get this across the finish line, and if even if we see a vote in the house very, very swiftly, there's still a lot that has to be done in the senate as well. >> tony, mike and leanne, thank you all so much for your reporting and staying on top of all of this. i know we'll be talking about this in the days to come. appreciate it. developing news out of the justice department. remember earlier this year it seemed like we were seeing one huge ransomware attack after another and now the doj has arrested a man accused of thousands of attacks, of millions of dollars each or total. the justice department says the ukranian national was arrested as he tried to travel over to poland. he's accused of targeting a miami-based company that sells software to small businesses. the attack on that company let the akers access the system of

1,500 other businesses. i want to bring in msnbc news justice correspondent. pete, talk us through this. more than what we heard from the department of justice than just that arrest. they are trying to slow down the ransomwear attacks but how? >> the arrest is a pretty big deal because how soon they got on to him. he's a 22-year-old man arrested last month ant the request of the u.s. government and now the u.s. is seeking his extradition. he's accused of conducting around 2,500 ransomware attacks that brought in $2.3 million in payments to unlock infected computer systems. the prosecutors say he actually helped to write and refine a specific kind of ransomware known at revil and that he was behind the tack on the miami-based cap kaseya that helps small businesses with their computer networks. that's the one that affected businesses over the july 4th weekend and demanded $15 million

for the key to unlock the computers. the u.s. actually charged him just six weeks after that attack in july but the charges were filed under seal and then in a separate case the justice department revealed that it seized $6 million in ransomware payments from another russian national accused of carrying out more than 3,000 ransomware attacks that targeted american companies. but in terms of going beyond the arrests, the treasury department also is evoking its authority to freeze the u.s. assets of the two men and it's taking similar action against a virtual currency, change called chat-x that ransomware cyber criminals use in their transactions. >> pete, as for the guy who was arrested here, how big of a fish was he in this whole scheme? >> arrested in poland coming -- coming in from ukraine. a big fish in the sense that he's one of the authors of this software that has widely been used. it's thought to have originated

by him and some others in russia, and it's become very popular. it's kind of an off-the-shelf thing that you can plug and play to use ransomware attacks and for that reap it's a big deal. it's also a big deal to attribute these attacks to specific people and to do it relatively quickly. >> pete williams breaking it down for us here in our d.c. newsroom. pete, thank you. a lot more coming up for you this afternoon including live this hour, we expect it to begin not too long now, a new conference on the astroworld music festival tragedy. potential new legal action being announced any minute by a victim's family as more and more lawsuits come in related to that deadly concert. but first, the white house expected to respond really any minute to a flurry of lawsuits targeting the president's vaccine mandate for big businesses. an later the gop's new target this afternoon, he's tall and yellow and lives on sesame street. and lives on sesame street do you struggle with occasional nerve aches in your hands or feet? try nervivenerve relief from the world's #1 selling nerve care company.

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we got a lot of news developing this afternoon in the fight against the pandemic. the biden administration is facing a deadline later today to respond to a whole bunch of lawsuits targeting the white house's vaccine mandate for big businesses. remember, that order by the president was suspended by a federal appeals court. then overseas you've got hugs and tears at airports across the world as vaccinated travelers from more than 30 countries are finally being allowed to return to the united states. european countries make up most of that green-lit list. even with more and more cases of covid popping up in europe. let's talk about both of those things with nbc correspondent sam brock in miami and matt bradley in london. sam, let me start with you because you're in one of the many states challenging president biden's vaccine mandate here. talk through that and what we expect to see today. >> reporter: yeah. there's been considerable backlash here, hallie, not surprisingly given the ongoing feud between the governor here ron desantis and president joe

biden. which ear expecting to see a few things happen over the next couple of weeks, one of them a special session held in tallahassee to provide protections for floridians who have lost their jobs because of vaccine mandates. that's one thing. the state legislature is also considering leaving oshia an creating its own enforcement arm for workplace safety. a couple of things on the plate here in florida to look forward to. now there's been 26 states total, hallie, that have been party to some four of lawsuit in four different appellate courts for florida. it's the 11th circuit court of appeals. florida joins georgia and alabama in that lawsuit and the arguments be made by the attorney general here very similar to the ones made in the fifth circuit where that temporary state was put into place and osha is using workplace as an avenue to advance health care policy and that that's a transgression of constitutional boundaries. we'll see how that plays out. as you mentioned, the biden administration is expected to respond with its briefing at some point today. 5:00 is the deadline for that, but it's also important to note that we're talking about a

vaccine mandate but it's not really a mandate, just policy from the presidential administration requires people to have a vaccination or to submit weekly covid tests indicating that they are negative and wear a mask. it doesn't say that every employee has to get vaccinated. nonetheless, hallie, the business community is extremely split on this, and that includes the u.s. chamber of commerce, the national retail fed rampingt i spoke with a plaintiff on one of the very first lawsuits filed. he owns a series of grocery store chains in louisiana and mississippi. some 500 employees just underneath that and is worried that people will be quitting because of this, that he's going to be facing all sorts of violations of their personal freedoms on his account, and this is what he told us. >> i feel that it's wrong for the federal government and an arm of the federal government to step in between me and my team members and my employees and tell them that they have to go get a vaccination which is a personal medical issue or i have to terminate them, and -- and that's just kind of where i said enough is enough, and we have to stand up for what's right and

that's our personal liberties. >> reporter: hallie, there's an important point to be made here which is that employers do not have to terminate employees who aren't vaccinated or who don't produce those weekly negative covid tests. they can, however, be subjected to a fine and it's a hefty fine of $14,000 per violation which certainly you could see adding up very quickly. on december the 5th the first phase of this really takes effect when unvaccinated workers of companies of 100 or more people, which is roughly 80 million people in the united states and the private sector have to be wearing a mask and then it's january 4th after the holidays when the next phase takes effect with weekly covid tests. hallie. >> sam. we're watching what happens in the next less than two hours here as far as the white house response to that court battle. if you will. matt, you're in land op, right, because it's another significant day in this process with travel now made easier, especially people coming in from europe. i have to tell you i'm visualizing it as like the closing scene of like "love actually" with all the reunions.

people hugging and crying and seeing each other. has that materialized yet? have you seen that, or is it more of a slow start? >> hallie, you stole my line. i was just going to say "love actually." i would call it the opening sequence of "love actually" but, yeah, it was actually quite emotional, actually quite emotional and, you know, there were people who were embracing. there were actually people who were working for the airlines who are dressed in like uncle sam type attire and dressed all in bunting and waving american flags. >> wow. >> this is a big deal and not just for the passengers. it's a big deal for the airlines but we did speak with a couple of passengers and like i said emotional. we spoke with one couple whose daughter had been engaged over the past two years. been exactly 602 since everybody was able to travel and been engaged. they hadn't met the lucky guy, and so they were going over for the first time. she's the first one in our little montage here, but i'll let you hear what they all have to say.

>> i could cry. i'm so joyful i could cry. >> yeah. >> i've only had dreams of this moment. >> 678 days i've waited. we're been able to do the video chats and things like that so we've not been together for that long. >> excited. it's been a long time so i think mostly -- mostly relieved that we have a concrete date so very happy. >> reporter: so, yeah. i hope that matched your cinematic dreams, hallie, but, you know, again, sort of a corporate and economic side to all of this. >> for sure. >> reporter: they were b.a., british airways, for viroj inatlantic, a big, big deal. there's some 2,700 flights between the u.s. and uk that are now scheduled for just this month. that's 20% more than last month but important to note. it's still half of what it was two years ago, november of 2019, before this whole pandemic got going. >> yeah. >> this is the story we kept hearing throughout the lifting of the restrictions.

it's going to take a little time for everything to get back online and this is the same thing we're seeing at heathrow and all the other important airports in britain. >> the only thing that would make my cinematic dreams come true truly is re-enact the singing of "all i want for christmas is you" live on television. >> reporter: i'll do it. >> ilwon't ask for you to do that. we'll cut away from you quickly. next up, other news happening around the country and including something we expect in the next ten minutes or so, an update on the horrific astroworld music festival incident. we'll hear from the family of a 21-year-old victim and the lawyers now representing them. that's after the break. don't go anywhere. them. that a'sfter the break don't go anywhere. introducing the biggest advancement in the history of small business bookkeeping.

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so just in from the houston police department. as we follow that investigation into the chaos at the astroworld festival, the statement from the houston police chief talking about sharing concerns about travis scott and his head of security about public safety before the main event started. it comes as they are awaiting the first public comments from family members. you see the microphone set up at the lectern there flapping to sue over the death of one of

their relatives over what happened at astroworld. we're talking about the family of axel acosta who is 21. they are expected to take some questions after their attorney provide the basis of that lawsuit, and it's not the only one, right? at least a dozen so far have been filed as of today with this concert now among the deadliest ever in u.s. history. eight people were killed. many more hurt. i want to bring in nbc's jay gray who is live for news hueston. jay, we're waiting for this news conference to begin. you can see danny ceballos is joining us and the statement from the houston police chief, how does that fit into the timeline of what we're learning happened that night? >> reporter: look, think it's fascinating because he said he spoke not only with travis scott but with his director of security just before the show went on stage and made it clear that he was very concerned about public safety saying in part and i'll read this just to make sure i get this right.

>> yeah. >> reporter: that he's never seen in his 31 years of law enforcement any bigger challenge as far as citizens of all ages to include a global pandemic and social tension throughout the nation, so he asked travis scott and his team to be cautious of what they put online, what they post to social media and how they handle the crowd here. we know that there were more than 500 houston police officers and another 755 or so private security guards here, but there was a crowd of 50,000, so you can understand the numbers there just don't work if things get out of control. i think it will be very telling to hear what this family has to say. we've heard from others who say that they want justice as well and a lot of them pointing to scott's previous history with law enforcement. you know, in 2015 at lal palooza in chicago, he pled guilty to

inciting violence there after he urged fans to rush past security and the same thing happened two years later in arkansas at a concert where he told them to bypass security, to crush the stage and a police officer there, security guard and several fans were injured and there was an arrest following that concert so this is nothing new. for travis scott's part, what we've heard from him is very apologetic and spoke to something online asking his fans to continue praying for those that were injured and he's offered apparently to pay for the funerals of those lost. >> let me ask you this, jay, because i think that's one of the big questions that people have as more and more mourners come out about the timeline. how is it possible when you look at the video that travis scott could continue performing for minutes nearly an hour after all of this began happening. people began calling for help, et cetera. what's interesting is kylie jenner has now come out and said in part and i want to read her part, quote, travis and i are broken and devastated and show says this. i want to make it clear we were not aware of any fatalities

about the news came out of the show and no world would continue performing. listen, we've always talked about himself saying he's been working closely with different officials, the fire department, the police, et cetera, to try to get to the bottom of it. >> it's stunning and it raises some real questions especially when you see people climbing on to a camera riser at the concert begging them to stop the show saying that people are dying in the crowd. you've got people dancing on the tops of ambulances trying to get to victims in the crowd. what scott has said is he didn't realize the magnitude of the situation. there was a lot of warning there. there were a lot of people trying to let him know that that was going on. >> can you tell us more about what we mow about the victims here, what we're learning about mr. acosta whose family will be at the news conference set to begin really any minute here. you're seeing the images, the names of the victims on screen what, we know about the people

still in the hospital, too, jay. >> reporter: yeah. 14 to 27, the ages of those that were killed. mr. acosta 21 years old and out just enjoying a music festival that he assumed when chaos broke free. those hospitalized, 25 taken to area hospitals. more than ten remain in the hospital right now. the youngest of those so years old in critical condition and then i'm told by medics that were on the ground here as many as 300 people were treated for injuries here so it was complete chaos. you had a lot of people struggling to try and get away. we've seen some coming back to reclaim items that they left behind. it's a mess and i don't think it's going to get any clearer any time soon. when you talk to houston police investigators they say this is going to be a slow, meticulous investigation. >> sure. >> or one that's going to take some time. >> jay gray, thank you for that. i know you're planning to stay

close to your camera as you wait for the news conference begins. danny, let me turn to this. you're obviously going to hear about another lawsuit here. there's been a number of them, more than a dozen that have been filed already. can you give us your police perspective as they relate to concert organizers and perhaps even to travis scott themselves. >> there's been a lot more crowd-type crush of cases as you might expect going back as far as the great white concert from decades ago now where similar things happened and courts treat them differently. at their core they are all negligence cases. the plaintiffs will argue that they breached a duty, the concert promoters and organizers, breached a duty to keep these folks safe and more specifically because they are what they called invitees, because they paid cash money to get into this concert, they are afforded the highest level of protection under the law in premises liability, so that is the theory of liability, but

within the spectrum of defendants you have all different levels of culpability. the primary defendants are going to be the event organizers, the venue, anyone in charge of security. i would suggest that maybe on the lower end of the spectrum is the performer, in this case travis scott, unless, and it's a big unless, evidence emerges that he somehow induced or incited this crowd surge. >> so can i ask about that, because i don't know if you heard jay just talk through the news statement from the sheriff's office there who said they talked about -- he raised concerns, the sheriff said, to the security folks prior to the actual concert happening on friday night. does that change the equation in your view as it relates to liability knowing that that head's up or discussion according to the sheriff happened. >> i read the sheriff's tweet statement, there it is and he met with travis scott. look, he met with the performer but, again, where is the performer on the continuum of

responsibility for security at a specific event. let's say travis scott and his head of security went to the event people and said the chief of police or the sheriff met with me. he's concerned about security. that's all about all he may be able to do. the difference here is that if he somehow search ratley from his responsibilities to the people incited a riot or encouraged people to come forward, as he allegedly did on at least two other occasions, then that could be a separate basis for liability, and that would make it a much stronger case against travis scott. i would just say as a plaintiff's attorney myself the smart thing to do at this stage is name travis scott, name all the defendants who could be responsible, sort it out in discovery. >> put the other hat on, plaintiff's attorney versus let's say you're one of the defense attorneys for perhaps the concert organizers here. what argument are you making, right? how are you trying to say, you know what happened because presumably there's got to be an acknowledgement that what happened was horrific. people's lives were lost, people

who loved them are forever changed, right? how do you mount a defense to in. >> reporter: this is the defense. likely it's going to be this. any time you have a big crowd of people in one place there's always a possibility that there's going to be a stampede, and there are hundreds if not thousands of outdoor events every year and people are not stampeded. this is the kind of thing that defendants will argue that came up out of the blue. they had no prior notice and that's the key. they are going to argue they had no idea that this was going to happen. they had no means of preventing it and perhaps most importantly when they realized something bad was happening they responded appropriately, and it's that last part. at least based on the videos that are coming out and the images that we're seeing that may be a little difficult for these defendants, but we have to wait until even more evidence emerge and that's where it happens nowadays. more cell phone videos come out and we get an even better perspective as to what happened. >> danny, thanks so much for

your legal perspective on this. appreciate it. we'll keep our eye on the news conference set to begin any minute when we do expect to hear from the family members of one of the victims of that incident. we'll bring it to you live when it starts. coming up, more news on two high-profile trials happening right now, including emotional testimony today from the only survivor who was shot while protesting police brutality in wisconsin last summer. >> what was going through your mind at this particular moment? >> that i was going to die. ment >> that i wagos ing to die ray loves vacations. but his diabetes never seemed to take one. everything felt like a 'no'. everything. but then ray went from no to know. with freestyle libre 2, now he knows his glucose levels when he needs to. and... when he wants to. so ray... can be ray. take the mystery out of your glucose levels, and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free. visit freestylelibre.us

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the trump campaign and names like jason miller, longtime senior adviser to former president donald trump. he has now been subpoenaed by the select committee. john eastman who has been in the news quite a bit over the last month or so reportedly after having created essentially the blueprint that he presented to then vice president pence and others on how exactly the white house at the time could attempt to try to subvert the legitimate election results. michael flynn is among these names, too. former national security adviser, current conspiracy theory advocate who is reportedly in a meeting in december of 2020 in which participants talked about, according to the january 6th select committee talking about seizing voting machines and invoking certain national security emergency powers, et cetera. i want to bring in nbc's leanne caldwell who is on capitol hill. leanne, we had known, right, because chairman bennie thompson had talked about they had subpoenas ready to go. we didn't know against who or what they were looking for. now we have a better sense.

i just named four of the people. i think of the six, right, that they have issued these subpoenas against. talk us through the rest of the names and the significance of this right now. >> reporter: yeah, hallie. we did know that there were subpoenas signed as recently as last week, but they haven't sent them out yet. bennie thompson confirmed that the subpoenas were ready to go and now they have been sent out. i'm sorry, i'm looking at my notes because we just got this in the past few minutes. >> of course, yeah. >> reporter: and we knew that john eastman would be among them, that they had planned john eastman to be subpoenaed very soon. john eastman is the one who wrote the memo outlining how vice president mike pence could overturn the election on january 6th when it was just a simple electoral college count of the congress. of course, that is not how the constitution works, and he was unable to do it, but john eastman is a conservative lawyer who is close with the president and outlined an entire plan for

mike pence pence to do it. we know that mike pence didn't go ahead and do it. in addition, there's angela mccullum, an executive assistant to the former president. she reportedly participated in efforts to spread false information about alleged voter fraud in the election and to encourage state legislators to alter the outcome of the election as well. the other person who did not mention was bernard kerik. >> right. >> reporter: someone who participated at a meeting at the willard hotel which was the command center for all of these etempts to overturn the election at the willard hotel which is right across the street from the white house in washington, and he paid for rooms and suites in the hotel and he played an instrumental role working with rudy giuliani at the time, and so in the scheme of things we know that the january 6th select committee has been working interviewing more than 150 people already, not just in washington but around the country as well.

we know that they are moving very swiftly in their investigation. they interviewed last week former trump department of justice administration officials who -- jeffrey clark who was not cooperative, the committee says, but this latest batch of subpoenas is really significant. these are people who work extremely close with the former president and perhaps have a lot to say. what we don't know is if they are going to respond to these subpoenas. >> that's right. >> reporter: and cooperate, and as these subpoenas have just gone out, that's definitely something and the next thing we'll be watching. >> leanne, stand by for one we beened. i want to bring in lesley warren swan, national reporter for politico and we brought back dani ceballos for the legal perspective. betsy, let me go to you here. because i really want to bring home a point that leanne manage. these are not like tangential tertiary players to donald trump's scene, right, in january

and december -- december and january of this past year? i mean, jason miller very close, very inner circle for donald trump. bill stepien ran the campaign, john eastman, michael flynn, involved intimately reportedly in the conversations that were happening right around the time of the riots. talk about the significance of these slate of names as you see it. >> reporter: no question. this is a group of people who are both very close to what the trump operation was that day, but also who don't likely have any of the executive privilege protections that some of these former trump world folks have about able to claim. >> good pint. >> reporter: jason miller a campaign official and bill stepien a campaign official and angela mccullum, a name new to a lot of folks but a really interesting person on this list. these are people who are very unlikely to be able to say that their relationship with the president by any stretch of the legal theory here shields them from having to testify. bernie kerik is a really interesting character here, a

long-time rudy giuliani ally. he's been convicted of crimes and he was the head of the new york city police department and now in the weeks and days leading up to january 6th and on that day he materializes as somebody who was very much on board and enthusiastic supporter of all of the efforts the president was engaged in to try to overturn the election results. in fact he was on news max on the day of january 6th, according to a clip that media matters distributed in making comments that appeared to downplay the severity of what was going on at the capitol that day. all these folks have detailed insider knowledge of how trump and his closest allies were trying to reverse the election results. each one of them is absolutely key to what the committee is looking for. a conspicuous name missing from the list, of course, is rudy giuliani. he was close to what all these folks were doing. but how it appears right now is

that the select committee is essentially working its way up the ladder, working inward to people closer and closer to trump just to get a detail picture of what happened and why it happened. >> two follow-ups on this, bets, one quickly here. just because giuliani isn't part of this batch we don't know whether for sure he's not part of any batches of subpoenas or not or whether this might be come down the road from the select committee. we have no guidance reporting on that. >> of course. there's no reason whatsoever to believe that this is a final batch of subpoenas. >> almost certainly not. >> more likely to come in the final weeks. >> you made a point and, danny, i want you to jump in on this point. these are folks not serving in the white house on january 6th meaning that executive privilege claim could become harder for them to make. however, betsy, as you know, steve bannon was also not serving in the white house on january 6th and he through his attorney has tried to make the claim that because former president trump wants to cite executive privilege, that's why he's not cooperating is the argument that his attorney is

making. is there reason to believe that you may see some of the folks on this list follow in those footsteps? >> it's certainly possible that any of the people on this list could pull the same card that bannon is pulling in which case that just heightens the level of scrutiny on the justice department as far as whether or not they move to enforce the subpoena, but, look, bannon at this point, bannon and jeff clark are kind of two outliers. even mark meadows, trump's former chief of staff. >> yeah. >> who would have arguably one of the stronger cases of make on privileged. he's engaged with the committee and so is kash patel, a senior dod official in the trump administration. the committee has said he's engaged with them, so just because bannon and jeffrey clark are using these real head-scratchers of legal theories to try not to cooperate doesn't mean that the folks in this batch are going to move in the direction of bannon and clark. it's just as likely that they will follow the lead that meadows and patel have laid out by engaging with the committee. we'll have to see. >> danny, your perspective from

the legal front on this. i know you've talked about it as it relates to other, that the january 6th has subpoenaed. >> reporter: apair of cases dating back to the '80s nixon one and two teach us there's something as executive privilege and even possibly that a former president can assert that executive privilege but today we're not left really knowing the full contours of that privilege, so we can expect litigation even when you see someone like a steve bannon, who was not part of the administration, can claim that executive privilege prevents him from appearing or prevents him from turning over documents and that will at least get him in the door to a courthouse and allow someone, any subpoenaed witness it seems, to at least try to assert that, each if the court ultimately strikes it down. you're absolutely right in that these subpoenas appear to target folks who have a very weaker crime of privilege because they may not have ever been part of any privileged communications or part of the administration.

jason miller very interesting because if you read some of the accounts of january 6th he was there, boots on the ground, close to the president throughout the day so a very strategic subpoenaed witness there because he's going to have a lot of information about what happened that day and arguably one of the weaker claims of executive privilege or attorney-client privilege, and i would just add that maybe one of the reasons we aren't seeing rudy giuliani yet is that if speena he would create a huge battle over both attorney-client privilege and executive privilege, and it may be that the committee is hoping that they can get to the information they need without the rudy giuliani piece. >> although to that point and i want to bring in our msnbc political editor, and there's been reporting, leanne, for sure that there are dozens and dozens of people, names that we don't even know yet, right, that the january 6th committee is seeking or could potentially subpoena

and there's still a lot of question marks who is on that list, no? >> reporter: yeah, there are. the people they are subpoenaing are people that they think they might not get cooperation from. there are dozens and dozens of people who are cooperating with the select committee. >> without needing a subpoena. >> reporter: and those interviews and discussions and document requests have already happened and are happening and will continue to happen so we're hearing -- we're not hearing about those because those people are cooperating. we're hearing about the subpoenas because this is a step that the committee is taking whether either they tried previously to contact these people with no success or they just are skipping that step of the back and forth waiting game and just moving straight for the subpoena. >> of course, the subpoenas are issued to the people who tend to be closest to the president, and most loyal to the former president, and there's a lot else happening behind the scenes that we don't quite know yet. hallie. >> i think that ben has been able to join us now. there he is. hi, pep. thanks for being with us. listen, i know you are somebody,

just to pull back the curtain a little bit, you know, ben is one of the reporters that we talk to all the time as far as behind the scenes, outreach to, for example, former members of the trump universe, et cetera. amplee trump universe, et cetera. members of the trump universe, et cetera, and then help us set this into a political context, right? thinking back to what it was like at the end of december, beginning of january, 2021. just to remind people, there was real concern about the way -- clear concern about the way that then president trump was initially refusing to accept the results of the election, continuing to accept those results, this discussion wrong republicans on capitol hill and elsewhere, would he ever do so? obviously we know how that cookie crumbles. andie the culmination of januar 5th and the january th in what happened at the capitol. put this into context. every person on this list reallh is -- you know s involved, had conversations at least i accordg to the selectsa committee, abou this. >> yeah new york, i think it is

importantw the think back at tt context. january 6t th was a horrible da for just about everyone in the city, everyone in theon country. you saw the rhetoric at that time that met that moment for a lot of republicanst that were extremely -- were angers, frustrated scared as to the events on january 6asth. the attack on the capitol. and went as far, many republican leaders pointed and blamed trump for those attacks, for the violence that spurred from the baseless claims about the election. when we see subpoenas for folks who the committee doesn't seem to think were cooperating in the behind the scenes negotiations. there are others cooperating who we don'tng know who are working through it. i think it is important to remember that a lot of republicans who were speaking out against january 6th who said this was my final straw with

then president trump. to wonder who those people are, what information they have, and what are they giving, i think that's going to be an important part to imthis, too. >> our team has put together a screen, a graphic, so you can see it of the people who have been deposited from the most recent round from the january 6 select committee. there is a name on hear, angela mccallum. not a household name. fair to say. but she is interesting. here.yoerenced i want you to tease that out more, why you find that intriguing. >> that's right. she is definitely the lowe's low profile person. >> i think so, yeah. >> in this latest batch of subpoenas. she is interesting because there was reporting before the january 6th attack happened after trump lost the election and the networks called it for biden there is a report that angela mccallum was reaching out the lawmakers in michigan one of those key states that biden won

and thatde trump lost and she w urging state lawmakers to somehow try to invalidate the nv outcome of the election and try to appoint a different slate of electors who instead of voting for biden as the voters of michigan wanted them to would have voted for trump. this was really really interesting because it was someone who was not working publicly in terms of messaging or organizing. it's somebody who was working quietly, andwo behind the scene to actually, according to the reporting that's out there, to actually try to pressure these state lawmakers to overturn the results of the election. because she was involved at that level, according to these reports she would have understanding notsh just perhap of sort of what we know publicly and overtly about the way trump tried to subvert the election results, but also what was going on at a lower level, kind of a parallel last public efforts to seriously lobby these elected officials to try to overturn the outcome of elections. she's really, really interesting.

i will be keeping a close eye on the degree to which she does or does not cooperate with the ra subpoena. >> that's right. also alsotesu john eastman, lea who we touched on a moment ago but i thinkmo is worth coming bk to. i think for a lot of observers this was truly a matter of time, right, before he was going to get called to the carpet in adjacent of the january 6th select committee given the reporting that is out there. explain that. >>n that's absolutely right. it's because he's thought to be kind the mastermind of how to convince former vice president mike pence to overturn the election results and the congressional actions on january 6th. remember, congress's role is just toer come and to officiall count the electoral college votes. yes, they are able to object and challenge. but it is not up to the vice president to overturn the election results.el john eastman had a six-step plan, a six-step memo that he put in writing and that was discussed. why john eastman is

so interesting and so important to the committee. because they say that it has to do with pressure, the pressure campaign from the white house to not only the vice president, but also involving the department of justice as well. and so they look at it in that bucket in addition to pressuring election officials and t just t public statement that there was a real campaign involving the department of justice to overturn the election results, hallie. >> in the 30 or 40 seconds we have left, betsy, give you the final question on this. the open question now, as you all alluded to, who cooperates? who plays ball? how much do they talk? and how d resistant are they to talking? that's where this story goes next. >> one thingy people should kn about the way congressional subpoenas worke is that there a wide variety of different types of responses people can have. some people stiff arm the probes and can't nothing to do with them. but there is a weird category of people who actually kind of want

what is often referred to colloquially as friendly subpoenas. people interested in coming forward and sharing the information they have but they feel they need some cover from congress to demand they come in so if they get pushback from friends, allies, former future employers they can say i didn't have a choice. i had a subpoena, i had to go in. g we saw that with a number of former d.o.j. officials and we might see that with folks on this list. >> thank you so much for rolling with this breaking news just in thisng hour. you though we are going to talk more about it coming up later here on msnbc. for now, i so appreciate you watching this hour of hallie jackson reports. we will have the latest reporting on twitter. "deadline: white house" starts right after the break. " starts right after the break. maybe it's a jump or eating something green. or taking mom to get that vaccine. ♪ healthier means bringing stuff to the folks ♪ ♪ that really need it. ♪ ♪ like help at 2 am or care that's right at home. ♪

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but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ hi there, everyone it's 4:00 in new york. there are developments on multiple fronts in the war against the big lie and the disinformation that threatens our democracy, chief among them the work of the january 6th select committee which is locked right now in a fight with the disgracedess expresident and his allies of information that could give a full accounting of everything that went on before and after and during the insurrection. but there is breaking news this afternoon. the panel has issued subpoenaed