are going to need more duct tapes. travels are thrilled to be back. first time people cried at tears of joy in the sight of laguardia. new york city is expecting tens of thousands of tourists and they're all going to walk in front of you. >> all right, good morning, welcome to "morning joe," with us here in new york city -- we have the host of "way too early," jonathan lemire, former aide, elise jordan. richard haas and eugene robinson. >> willie and i were talking. he was asking me when i won my

bronze. >> you ran in the 30 rock. >> i don't remember. >> the game has changed a lot from 6:00 to 8:00. >> i think when you guys are training, it's more like machine and men and women. you all like the training regiment when you went through in '68, we could not dream of having that technology >> your water station is unfiltered camel and donut holes and you keep going. >> also, i ran with chuck taylor. we didn't know. we thought - eugene robinson, i hear you laughing there. you see pictures of basketball stars in the nba in the 1960s, they're wearing the converse

all-stars. i love them. it's canvas and this is assault right here. you wonder how they did not blow up their knees every night. >> exactly, you can't imagine how they did not do it. i guess they were pretty good athletes. >> it's how you run, joe. >> yeah. >> we used to run in marathon in -- >> exactly, jean and i. they kicked me out of the olympics and jean showed solidarity. >> yeah, exactly. mike compares me to -- >> i think he confused of the four hours. look at you willie.

>> four hours. i think roger banister was running something comparable to a chuck taylor. >> extraordinary. >> you did such a great job and you raised some good money. >> how are you feeling today? >> today i am feeling back to normal after 48 hours. >> same with me. >> everyone on this table let me talk about this show. we crossed $400,000. the goal was $100,000 but we raised $400,000 far parkinson's and that's what i am most proud of. >> and you got to carry stephanie ruhle. >> maybe i will jump into her arms. >> you need to get in early and i will get in between you two. >> just what you needed.

i will say first i didn't know what was going on but it did giver me light to see a familiar face of someone i love. i didn't expect her to jump into my arms and carry her. >> i am sure you were sweaty. >> oh. >> super cray-cray stalker steph. >> mika, talk about your mom last night and what happened? >> we were going to wait. we had a great event at the new york technology. thank you for coming, you were still awake. my mom and one of her incredible pieces in the window at the new york institute of technology on broadway right near the lincoln center, you can walk by and see it. it's a beautiful bench made out of a single cherry trunk, those were her tools. it was an exhibit of her body of work and her process.

there are a lot of columns that really fill in it is blanks of the different decades of her career. she was on zoom. she enjoyed it. she really, really enjoyed it. we did a big ribbon cutting for the gallery in memory of somebody in new york who they lost recently and the mayor was there and a lot of "morning joe" and friends and family were there and just a lot of supporters of the art world. that's bench. students can sit on it and take a moment to meditate and really get a sense of my mother's connection with nature. i thank very much. i thank you the new york institute of technology for embracing my mother's work. >> elise was there as well and

jonathan lemire was there. >> one of the things is so special was nobody is going to say the end game of covid. i got to say new york city was crazy. we'll be talking to mayor de blasio about this. you can tell foreign tourists were in town yesterday because the whole place exploded. it was very exciting to be in new york city and having actually taxi drivers complaining about the fact that traffic is worst now than it was before. >> the same with subway. >> and i am going all the way. >> i thought i bring this up for a reason. jean, everything i do is i do for a reason. talk about your lovely and beautiful talented wife, ava, i know she has an art exhibit that

was halted for a long time because of covid. when is that going to become available? >> now scheduled to be in april. >> fantastic. >> i will give i exact date in a while and make sure everybody is informed when that happens. it's very exciting and what is christmas in new york without the millions of foreign tourists flocking your way on the sidewalk? >> it's not christmas. what is new york if you can walk down fifth avenue and so it's back. >> any immortal words? pretend it's a city. just don't stop. do you see that her netflix special? >> it was hilarious where she keeps on talking about tourists where they stop and look up at

buildings. i don't care if you are in my city. have fun, pretend there is people that actually live here and work here and have to get to places. it was exploding yesterday. >> it was a lovely night. i don't mean this like -- i mean as in tourists are money sort of way. i love it. >> oh my gosh. >> it was great. >> yeah. >> it was great that people are flooding back into the city. >> the psa, if you are a family of four, you all four don't have to be across the sidewalk. talk about running a marathon, i was not sure what to expect because they would scale back this year. it was huge. the restaurants and weather was beautiful. from inside those police barriers, it really felt like new york was back.

>> oh, heartwarming. thank you for surprising me and coming up to new york and be at my mom's event. it was really nice. >> the house select committee investing the january 6th capitol issued six subpoenas, john eastman, bill stephen, jason miller, bern navy yard kirik and michael flynn and angela mccallum to testify and provide documents. all six took parts in discussions about challenging the results of the 2020 elections. eastman participated in a so-called war room meeting at the willard hotel.

eastman also penned a two-page memo for the trump's team where he claims mike pence had the legal authority to block the counting of votes. the january 6th committee issued subpoenas including steve bannon who the house voted to hold in contempt after he refused to testify. the decision whether to bring charges against bannon sits with attorney general with merrick garland. nbc news reached out to these six subpoenas yesterday for responses but nobody replied. >> this is certainly the trump's circle here. just to give viewers contacts of who's who here. we have stephen who was a campaign manager, he was in charge.

kirik working with rudy giuliani and we have of course we have the last one bernard kirik, these were people in the room at the willard. the question remains what happens next? there is no sense they're going to comply with the subpoenas to testify. there is a real concern of what happens to steve bannon? >> absolutely none. >> either congress has the power to subpoena or they don't. i am a little bit confused by exactly what merrick garland is doing when it comes to looking into previous administrations. i don't want them to be persecuted because of their views. if you are committing sedition, it's okay to actually enforce laws. that's what i don't understand. you look at these people

parading across these images and they're talking about, they have a war room to talk about how to subvert the united states constitution and throw out an election. this is belaruse. these guys look like thugs from belaruse trying to distort democracy. >> the stakes have gone up, the fact that bannon refused to comply and the six people are put under the microscope. it shows the organs of government, the organs of american democracy are not willing to enable to perform their constitutional responsibility. as bad as that was, if something does not happen. people are not compelled to cooperate or they have to pay the price then it actually makes a bad situation worse.

>> jason miller, the president's top aide. >> unbelievable. it seems like you can plot an insurrection and go through it and have people on the ground who are your foot soldiers and get escape on all accountability and not complying to subpoenas whatsoever. i know a lot of people are watching thinking can we get away and can we pull it off? can they enforce subpoenas? at least we got away with it. if you read the details, you can read it in costa and woodward's book of what was going on inside the willard hotel. it was truly a war room plotting to overturn the election. >> we are woied about '24. the odds go up. if people did this now do not pay a significant price. this is a message jean robinson,

people from both par the is in the future to a billionaire perhaps who was an independent in the future. there is a lack of a imagination here by right winger and republicans and some people who call themselves conservatives to just think this is democrats verses republicans. this is a democracy issue. it's a challenge to our democracy. it's a challenge of checks and balances. 10 or 15 years from now, if people get away with this now, we are going to see independent billionaires in between flying rocket ships to bars getting inside to take over this country and they're going the use these and against all of us. republicans and democrats and liberals and conservatives. >> 100%. >> this is not a close call. in my view i am not a lawyer. i don't think it should be a close call for merrick garland

and the justice department. they got to enforce these subpoenas or else what does the constitution really mean? what substance does it really have if congress can't compel the people who led an insurrection come before the congressional panel and testify. it's outrageous that they're trying to skirt this and to avoid this and simply thumbs their nose at the u.s. government which they try to overthrow. it can't be allowed to stand. >> so many reasons why this matters in our next story reflects this. twitter added a warning label but says it will not take down a video posted by a republican congressman which depicts him

killing democrat aoc which he does it in a cartoon form. the video was posted on twitter and instagram. the clip goes, her face can be seen super imposed over an an i can't believe this is something i have to report. >> blasted of the face of the president of the united states. >> i feel uncomfortable saying it. >> elise, here is the thing. this sounds so obvious. >> if anybody had done this, we

would have called to get them kicked off the committee possibly expel them from congress. i can't even imagine the reaction if the most conservative or the most liberal of liberals attacked somebody else in the chamber this way their career would be over. >> that's now nothing compares to this. what does kevin mccarthy say? what does steve scalise, a guy that got shot because of hatred, has he said anything? again, tweeting images of him killing other members of congress and attacking the president of the united states. >> this is insane and why are

they such wimp leadership? hey, it's not okay of posting killing of your colleagues. we are so broken. >> congress has become a collection of twitter trolls. that's what they do to own the lib. they'll post something online and they'll use the clip. look at this, the media got mad and it goes on. we have seen this before in other forms, donald trump deployed this a lot. there be no consequences. >> sometimes is stupid. ted cruz going after big bird and that's just stupid. this crosses overall sorts of line, it shows how discourse have change in courses and there are no rules anymore. marjorie taylor greene tweets stuff like this all the time. it's violent rhetoric.

we know that matters. >> yes, that adds up to an act like an insurrection to the capitol. >> yes, exact lit. helps fuel what we saw january 6th and had law enforcement worried of what can come next the next election and midterms and '24 of the idea of political violence. >> i am sorry -- ocasio-cortez has been confronted by fellow congressmen and women. people getting in her face and screaming at her. i think a lot of these leaders starting with donald trump don't appreciate the power of their words or the people who receive those words and how people file them will interpret those words possibly. >> i think they do appreciate the power of their words and they understand violence is a result of it and they cheer on that violence like donald trump

did. trump was sitting there cheering on people. >> if you know what you are doing and you cheer off the criticism of it. >> maybe this is why the sergeant at arms should haul up to people who don't want to come forward for subpoenas and have consequences because accountability. >> we saw what happened on january 6th and everyone is trying to rewrite history and it's still there in plain view and being recreated in slow form everyday. >> it's a break down of parties. each one of these individuals are their own press machines, they come and we deinstitutionallize -- not only

it gets penalized but it gets rewarded. these people are raising money over. this election increased their political standing. as long if that's the case, there is no incentive for them to be reigned in. >> and that's the biggest difference. if you had done this before of course you would be stunned by everybody and kicked off committees and you would not be able to raise money, your career is over. now somebody does something hateful like this then it's sent out and f fundraising. jean though, let's talk about the rank of hypocrisy of kevin mccarthy being quiet saying nothing and steve scalise being quiet saying nothing and republican leadership being quiet and can you imagine aoc, or congresswoman omar said

something about a republican, if they had done the same thing like i am going to kill a republican, can you imagine and guess what? democrats would be apologizing. >> democrats -- >> they would be apologizing and consider kicking people off committees and would be enraged. here from kevin mccarthy who this guy may be speaker of the house, he's saying nothing about threats against another member of congress and secret service, i don't know if this matters to you or not or maybe some of you like donald trump, i don't know. maybe you should reach out and ask a couple of questions, go ahead, what have omar had done this or aoc had done this? >> republicans would have trampled each other running to the microphone to denounce what had happened and democrats would be apologizing and punishing any

member who did something like that. we are now in a situation as richard and you pointed out where each member is such an independent contractor. each member is so independent party control and even at that though, one big factor here in this case is kevin mccarthy's deaf, dumb and blind ambition to become speaker and emphasi on the dumb. he's so desperately wants to become speaker of the house that he does not want to do anything that'll alienate the potentially the crazy people who would support paul gossart having done this outrageous things. he's going to go with it. there is going to be more of these things from gossart and

others like him. there will be more of the crickets from kevin mccarthy and steve scalise which is outrageous, he was shot as a result of this heighten violent atmosphere that his colleague gossart is help to intensify and worsen. so crickets from him and everybody else. maybe we'll hear from republicans or two but it will be cheney and adam kinzinger in full stop. >> the same thing happens, decades ago. after that happened, do you have network executives or cable news going around saying cooling. shut-up. this is getting out of control. nobody is doing that now.

i will say willie, glenn youngkin provides hope. yes, blah, blah, at the same time he ran a traditional campaign. a traditional campaign where he ran away from donald trump. he kept donald trump in a little locked box and stayed away. he ran 30 seconds ads where he said i am glenn youngkin and i wear a zres i am al nice guy and nothing's scary here. he plays to the political center this is of course if there is anybody in congress that actually wants to do more than shock jock in their life. youngkin provides them a high road approach. my god, other politicians have done that. they'll do it again.

>> you can win without trump or win without putting out cartoons of killing other members. >> exactly. >> you talk with them old line republicans. that's what it used to be. they did not love donald trump and during the primary with glenn youngkin. yeah, the argument that was made by terry mcauliffe failed. the voters of virginia did not believe that. i understand education and things -- that's all true. to voters he did not look like donald trump. >> and they still voted for him. >> he ran that mainstream republican campaign at least on tv to the suburbs, to the people he was trying to persuade. >> i never understood, if you

talk about high taxes or big spending or deficits or the need for strong military or a strong economy, entrepreneurships and all the things we talk about 25 years ago. you will still win in this district. you don't have to show yourself killing people in cartoons, you will still win by going less taxes and less spending and more freedom. >> he projected a sense of normalcy. >> remember where he was in virginia which was sort of bluish state. but, also what bubbled up just below the surface, he projected this. a lot of supporters, let's remember he was at an event he was not there. there was a pledge to allegiance to a flag on january 6th. an insurrection flag. the rank and file were swinging to the right.

>> they're crazy people everywhere. >> look around. >> they have been mainstreamed in a way. >> youngkin pushed them out of the mainstream. that's like people that are sitting there. you are spitting at your coffee. >> you arover focused on that. >> i am. here is one overfocusing on it. >> you have republican kands dates around age of trump one way or another they justify trump and they play ball with trump. it does not matter whether it's little or lot, they soil politically for the rest of their life. the world starts anew with glenn youngkin. if he decides to run in '24 and he asked all those questions by republican donors and suburban republicans went for biden, where were you when trump said

you know hey why don't we get dirt from the ukraines. youngkin says i am just making money. >> i am a private equity guy. >> youngkin did things that offended a lot of people, okay? >> not at trump's levels. >> the national, i feel like media pun class analysis really missed at the end of the day of education and not political race theory. that was one of the cry that the element of the campaign trying to gen up. >> and one candidate saying parents don't have a say in

their kids' school. yeah, i am sorry. that's going to lose any race for anybody anywhere. >> he never bothered to walk it back. parents should not have a role in school. are republicans now going to be able to take education as their issue and take it away from democrats? democrats are unwilling the take on the union and we want to get your kids back in school. we want to let you have some say over how your children are being educated. democrats have to be cognizant. >> they need to listen to teachers union less. >> i love everybody. >> okay. >> they got to listen to parents. it's the key. >> sorry. one last one. are republicans going to take

education? yes, i hope so. kevin mccarthy is already talking about it. they watched what happened in virginia and glenn youngkin, that's the way to the suburbs and that's the way to swing back those women who voted for joe biden. >> democrats, repeat after me, what were those five words trump said? >> camera, women, men -- >> i forget. >> write these five words down. are you ready? do you have your pencil? >> i do. >> parents, parents, parents, parents. you will be fine. a criminal investigation underway into the deadly crowd surge at the astro world music festival on friday night. we'll go to a live report and

how the concert kept ongoing. families reunited at airports across the country for the first time in nearly two years as international covid restrictions get lifted. >> we'll show you some of those emotional scenes. former president obama was back speaking on the world stage yesterday. and also mayor de blasio will join us here onset. >> on the reopening of new york city. we'll be right back. ening of ne city we'll be right back.

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okay. can you hear me t.j.? how are you? do we still have the cam? >> i don't know. >> t.j. comes twice a month but i can tell you those two days are two of the best most exciting days even the lights went on. >> the lights turned back on but we can't get the cam here. >> it's all right. >> you can't push a button. >> it's all right, honestly. >> this is why we don't have seven seconds delay here. >> the remote control is broken here.

>> there is t.j., how are you doing? >> that's probably good considering -- >> we are going to continue that, way beyond the pandemic. it's not a covid thing, it's a t.j. thing. there is a putting green there. >> yeah. >> that's where we golf. >> that's very nice. >> richard, first of all, we need a new york post and the daily news. >> we were on it. they would hide it from us. we are new york city, the big apple. >> china, some big things is happening this week. tell us about it. >> you have the meeting of the communist party, there is 90 million of people china. the meeting happens every other year or so. >> it's a lovely day. this is the one which xi jinping is going to build a political support so he can have a third term as president of china.

this is part of his policy of essentially becoming another mouth. and consolidate power to an extraordinary degree in his hands and this is what it's all about and this is china really -- less china's march than xi jinping's march. >> we are all obviously afraid of china. everybody is afraid of china just like we were afraid of japan and the soviet union. we don't stop long enough to see how detrimental this is to china. we have been hearing ten years that china is going catch up. i never believe it was going to happen. here you have xi stopping all of that. somebody says imagine the -- steve jobs, because he becomes successful making him

disappear which is what they have done with ma and that's what they're doing with all successful people. that offended the world of their foreign policies and entrepreneurs who are coming to america the first chance they get. can you explain why xi would take these advantages and give them up? nationalist and he's doing things like resting or silencing. it's all about political control. >>. >> what is he afraid of? >> he's worried if people have too many independence, they'll question the rule of the party. this is what authoritarian is all about. >> he knows economic growth is slowing down. it's never coming back to the levels it used to be. >> richard, five years ago, you

could not keep entrepreneurs into china. they want to get into the market and now i talk to people who are connected with some of the biggest business in china. when you are going back to china? we don't want to go back to china. they know we are in our computers and we know they're following us around and we know they're hostile. these are people who were some of the biggest u.s. interphases with the chinese economy. >> xi figures he can do well enough without them by massive government subsidies and select things. what you see is a whole revival of the state. those days are over. >> we have an ambassador over there yet? >> nick burns have been nominated but not over there yet. >> there is a specific leaders

summit that's going to be convened online this weekend. no hard plans yet for something in person despite u.s. really wanting to have this meeting. president xi has not left china in over two years. >> only seven nominees of this administration have confirmed as ambassadors. 190 countries in the world and dozens of organizations which the united states and ambassadors, seven have been confirmed. >> that's crazy. >> several republicans beginning with ted cruz put holds on individuals. 95% or 98% of the world of the country, this is another blow to american national security. where is the outrage over this? >> this is becoming a story of washington. this time in trump's term, he had 30 ambassadors in place and seven now for president biden. a couple of them put in last week and it's largely.

the white house is critical of this and they accused of ted cruz keeping hostages that he's trying to dictate american foreign policy by not allowing this. >> it's critical to have an ambassador and -- be more ready to act. and allies working for the u.s. government, we need to process our allies, we don't have anyone over there leading the charge. >> when are we going to break this stalemate? you don't have to love the other party but the fact that this goes back and forth and back and forth and i am not being and i am not talking about or saying it's equally divided but we had these problems for some time.

it just keeps getting worse and right now this is a threat to america's national security and there is not one person, republicans or democrats, ambassadors on post across the world is not a threat to america's national security. >> no, this is really awful. you know anybody who spent time reporting overseas knows how important it is to have an ambassador. it really empowered ambassadors on scene, especially in countries where critical stuff is going on, critical relationships, and china. our system depends on a certain amount of goodwill and it

depends on norms and it depends on every member of congress, not doing like the maximum they can do to gum up the works which is what ted cruz and a few others are doing in the senate on these ambassadorships. it's better for the country for us to be representatives in this way. people are not willing to go even there. >>. >> mitch mcconnell needs to go there and chuck schumer need to bulldoze everybody. hold everybody in place. this will be a great thing for mitch mcconnell and chuck

schumer to come together on. hey, let's do this for america's national security, right? >> yeah, absolutely. >> because it really is important and you know no matter which party is power or whether you like the president or dislike him. it's important for many reasons to have ambassadors confirmed and in place and able to represent the interests of the united states around the world. that's kind of basic. it has to happen. it's just sad and outrageous and dangerous. >> a quick test for you, a pop quiz. >> i am in trouble now. >> final jeopardy. >> i don't know the answers to. do we have an ambassador to china right now? >> well, what we have is -- >> i need a yes or no, answer.

>> no. we have interpreter officer, the person who joe biden wants to send is not yet confirmed. >> so the answer is no. >> i am going to ask you is denzel washington -- do we have an ambassador to russia? >> i believe not. >> do we have an ambassador to israel? >> as of two days ago, tom nye was confirmed. >> okay. >> do we have an ambassador to britain? >> i -- no. >> it's going to be jane hartley and she's not confirmed. the answer is no. >> this is stunning. >> do i dare ask for france, germany? >> the answer is no in all of these. >> france would have been

helpful. >> we have ambassadors appointed after donald trump. these tends to be the non major post. all the major post goes to non career to political appointees, robert emanuel nominated to go to japan. >> but he's not in japan yet. the major country of the world. >> for the democrats holding up rob emanuel, we need an ambassador in japan. >> chicago has a problem. seven of president biden's picks have been confirmed and probably hundreds of people. assistant secretaries and under secretaries.

a quarter of the biden's presidency is over and it's not close to being staffered. >> i need a yes or no answer for that. nick burns has not been approved. let's bring in the conversation to our associate professor, brian klaas. he's the author of the new book "corruptible." >> congratulations on the book, i want to talk about that in a few minutes. hop in our discussion here. you written so much about authoritarian in this country and what signals it may send to other countries since these

subpoenas are not in force what are you thinking in terms of how congress is handling january 6th. >> if we don't criticize or punish people behaving unsusceptible way, the pipeline is going to be much worse. when we see those videos around the country where people are getting death threats at the local level from extremists, you are thinking about you are a good decent person who wants political power in the united states and you see that. it's not worth it. so what it does is it creates these pipelines for extremists to go into these positions. that's one of the key take aways for my book. >> in some ways there was as hope that once donald trump was out of office, perhaps the pendulum would swing back.

it gotten worse, where are we as you think of authoritarianism in this country of that process unraveling of what happens over the last five years. >> it has gone very badly, we sent a message that this is acceptable in the united states. i think it broadens out lessons that i speak about in "corruptible," over the last several years, i started to realize that we have dictatorial model. >> we look at people in charge of us there are no good or decent people to be seen or very few of them. i started to think how can we resolve that puzzle? i went around the world and the

country and i spoke to more than 500 people who should not be in charge. i started to think about what can we learn from that and i combine those insights from those interviews with the latest research and evolution biology and neuro science and try to answer that subtitle to my book as to who gets power. right now is predominantly bad people behaving in authotarian way. >> conservatives have become obsessed of world bond and a guy openly mocks academic freedom

and openly mocks freedom of speech and runs people out of power that dare cross him. there is been more focus lately because there is a tv program that was done from over there. this has been an obsession for a year and a year and a half now. people that i used to consider good rock reagan republicans are now working hungry for an anti-democratic thug. >> that's why the term strong man is no accident. there is a lot of research. i talked about it in the book. a certain segment of society is obsessed of stonehenge of mentality. it's ridiculous. it actually documented --

>> i don't know. if you are going to turn to somebody, i am sorry -- >> go ahead brian. >>. >> the point is we select leaders for all irrational reasons. these kids were given computer simulation to pick who's going to be in charge of their imagination ships. they are shown two faces and one of them is the winner of the french election and the one is the runner up. the kids pick the winner. we have to think as society why we choose bad leaders as well as why bad leaders make it into power. >> the only reason i interrupted because richard started laughing and pointed at me.

>> the next is he has the most hair as president. >> this is absolutely fascinating. >> my question is how do we go forward from this if we had such rapid corruption on display and we have a lead in our own country who seemed not to care about consequences anymore, what is the path forward and especially in the united states had not seen a model of anticorruption for the rest of the world. >> it's a great question. i think we need to think about the system that we recruit people into power. it's not random. when you have a high school basketball team, you expect taller kids to draw out. the police reform, a lot of the things we talked about reform corruption or abuse are about how bad apples can behave. if you look at new zealand, for example, they design recruitment

schemes who are not drawn to the idea of power and guns and badges. and had less abuse results. i think we have to take as given that a certain kind of person for which power is magnetic is drawn to power and then we have to design our system to weed people out. we are not doing that. >> let's look at the european model now if you don't want tall, big and imposing guys in blue jackets. let's look at the european model. the answer is women. you look at women in europe, they are running right now, the eu women are running the most powerful country in continental europe right now. they have been running the european economy for years now. it seems for me women in europe had been a great answer to this. >> you are absolutely right about this. that's why we are focusing on

too much of what i call the tip of the iceberg. the people who are in power right now. it's disproportionately white and male. the ones who should be in power are minorities. we have design systems that make it harder for people to get above surface. i think we need to think less about what leaders do now and more of the kind of leaders we want to see in the future. that's why it's important to completely redesign from the way up. that's what i talked about in "corruptible." we have to redesign of how we look at your minnesota twins. >> i am sorry. >> the twins i mean -- >> it's going to be good this year. what happened? >> what happened? >> a long suffering thing to be a minnesota sport fan.

we lost the world series in 1991. it has been a long time. >> who get it is power and how it changes. brian klaas, thank you so much. >> always great to talk to him. ahead on "morning joe" -- >> richard is making faces throughout the whole segment. what are you saying? >> i am thinking the issue is not just gender and size of leaders. and either aung sang suu kyi when she got in power. >> there are some things about the way women lead that could help this situation. let's just leave it there.

we can discuss. >> oh my god. >> his reporting in the book has become a road map for the investigation into the january 6th attack capitol. robert costa joins us the table. plus, the story of a man who spends 28 days in a seattle icu with covid and who after finally recovering returns to the hospital with a message for the staff who nursed him back his health, i am sorry for not having been vaccinated. this is a great story, "morning joe," will be back in 90 seconds. joe," will be back in 90 seconds.

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at chevron, we're taking action. tying our executives' pay to lowering the carbon emissions intensity of our operations. it's tempting to see how far we've come. but it's only human... to know how far we have to go. look at him. >> if i can deal with this, i can deal with anything. >> i was right. >> it does happen. >>. >> it happens all the time. >> bob was asking if we were the best. >> that was probably in high school and we are doing two a day for football before he had

concerns about -- stuff like that. >> northwest florida when i was in high school, -- >> we would go downtown and drink all these coca-cola. >> you know what mine is? j.v. golf. >> i love that. >> cute. >> we did basketball in the gym without air-conditioning. i had to spend two days, i could not go back in. i was dehydrated. just didn't go. i could not move. >> no ac and the heat. that's a big thing. welcome back to "morning joe," elise jordan is very traumatized right now. >> eugene robinson is still with us and robert costa, the coauthor of the book "peril,"

it's good to have you on. >> richard engel was there. we had a good conversations. >> these are serious times. >> it can be depressing. it really can. >> unless you are an optimist believing we'll get through it. >> i am beating that out of you. i am coming close. you have to admit. >> you have tobelieve a place called america. >> we still have accountability. the house select committee investigating it issuing six new subpoenas, attorney john eastman, bill stephen, jason miller, bernie kirik and michael flynn and campaign executive

assistant angela mccallum. all six took part in discussions of challenging the 2020 election results according to "the washington post." eastman and kirik participated in the world room meeting. eastman also penned a two-page memo for the trump's team where he claims former vice president had the authority to stop the vote. steve bannon who the house voted to hold in contempt after he refused to testify. the decision over whether to bring charges against bannon now sits with attorney general merrick garland. nbc news reached out to the six individuals subpoenaed yesterday for responses but has heard back

yet. >> i don't think they will. >> bob, you and woodward both sketched this out beautifully and got a lot of people really focused on it. we have learned more since then and ins your reporting came out, there is been a flood of information coming out. what have we learned since your book about january 6th? >> we have learned a few things but we have so much more. when we were going around and knocking on doors, we have a note pad and pen in hands. what does congress have? they have subpoena power. if no one respects subpoenas and testify before the house, we reported that trump was calling into the willard war room of coordination of this campaign. we still have to learn more. what was the extent of trump's conversations with rudy giuliani and bannon and others. you also have john eastman, when we discovered his memo, we found two-page memo many are calling

it a blueprint. who directs him to do it? we know mike lee of utah, there are still unanswered questions. they're going to try to fight this all the way to the supreme court to avoid answering questions. >> bob, what about the question of executive privilege? we heard that around steve bannon. he was the host of the podcast, he was at the willard helping to lead that charge. how far do we think executive privilege extends if it does at all? >> i am skeptical of a reporter of claims of executive privilege in this circumstance. john eastman had been given interviews about his conduct. >> he was not in the white house. there is all a way to see if the supreme court weighs in and protects privilege.

that's why the doj matters here. is it going to be a criminal investigation of this insurrection in any way. the criminal investigation is what opens up watergate. it enables the supreme court to say we need to get the information, is that going to happen here? >> you live and work in the city where this event took place january 6th. what took place was a group of people, a small group of people at the beginning of it who have tried unsuccessfully to overthrow the existing government of the united states and the in coming government of the united states so my question to you is and you just referenced it. where is merrick garland and the department of justices? >> they're holding back. >> tla are process cuting the hundreds of people who stormed the capitol at a grass root levels. those who committed violence or caught on video tapes. the question i have is what object those at the top.

those who stoke these movements to happen who put a scenario in place. this is a real challenge. can the country move on if the answers are not fully there on an insurrection. this was not just about trying to steal the election. from day one of his presidency it had at least half the country, the republican party being told by people like rudy giuliani and steve bannon and trump that he's not the right president. until we have clear answers, clarity about an insurrection, it's hard to see president biden getting on the right footing. >> steve bannon was not working for the president, right? >> bernie kirik was not working for the president. >> and rudy giuliani. >> he was a lawyer outside a lawyer. >> executive privilege.

>> i keep thinking about u.s. verses nixon. they said during watergate, if there is a crime took place, there is no such thing as privilege. the president does not have the right to protect himself or his documents just because he's president of the united states. >> what's the holdup here when you have something that unfolded so violently before the eyes of millions of americans? i don't understand what the holdup of criminal charges or the investigation? >> what's the holdup the merrick garland? he should be moving here. >> the whole administration should be moving. i am an optimistic person, i don't like to dwell on the past. >> this is serious business and this is investigating the insurrection and attempt to

overthrow a free and fair election and remain in power by donald trump. it has to be investigated fully and it has to be done quickly and the whole administration and i will point the finger at attorney general garland just because he's in the hot seat. he's going of to force these subpoenas and do what's necessary there. the sense of urgency is not there. we are many months after the event and we are trying to get these first critical witnesses who were inside the room at the willard, into talk to the investigation panel. that should not be and this should be an all hands-on deck.

you got nixon as president and you just move and you move on it and told somebody, some federal judges or somebody that you can't. that's what i think the white house and congress and the justice department ought to be doing. this should be much further along now than it's before. it should not take him longer -- >> there is a scene in the biden administration in oliver stone, i did see the highlight. they're never going to like you.

they're never going to like you. basically telling him get on with your job and stop waiting for him to like you. i feel the same way with the biden administration. they're sitting there in the past, why should we do vaccine mandates, they're never going to like them. don't think about it and don't give a damn. do your job. willie, we can talk about nixon, they got that and also merrick garland has to look at all the trump's appointed judges and the supreme court, 63 or 64 federal judges and every one of them said there was no widespread voter fraud. there was nothing that impacted the overall election.

that was on the record when these goons were sitting there on january 6th, despite the fact donald trump's three justices said there was nothing there and despite the fact that rudy giuliani even said himself because he knew he was under the penalty of perjury to a federal judge in pennsylvania, oh no, no, no fraud is not an issue in this case. despite that fact, they tried to overturn the election. merrick garland as all the information he needs. doj has all the information. they need a move on it. >> what's frustrating to a lot ofl democrats is that they heard these argues that doj is worried about precedents. if there is another attempt to overturn an election back at the capitol, we can hand out subpoenas to that, too. whoever it's. i don't think a lot of people want to hear about it.

i want to ask you bob for anybody who does not know. as the whitewashing continues, oh the meeting at the willard hotel, it was a bunch of misfit, the president of the united states was calling into those meetings and people closest to him effectively plotting a coup, can you describe what was happening at the willard hotel. >> the night of january 5th , trump was pressuring pence. proud boys outside, oath keepers and bannon and rudy giuliani up in a suite and roger stone. what we have to do is find the truth, were there any cross lines between rudy giuliani and

bannon. i was outside the hotel. still my regret that i should have booked a room. i didn't know there was going to be an insurrection the next day. the electricity in the air of people yelling and screaming tomorrow is going to be the day that we'll take the election back. trump hears the music and keeps the door opened for hours. >> his new book "betrayal," jonathan carl describes the conversation former president donald trump had with the head of the rnc on his last day in office. according to carl, trump told rnc chairwoman mcdaniel that he was leaving the dnc and he diplomat care if the mood destroyed the republican party.

trump told this is what the republicans deserve if they are not sticking up for me. more significantly the rnc threatened to render his most valuable asset worthless and his campaign list of e-mail addresses for 40 million trump supporters. trump generated mumbai renting the list out to candidates at a steep cost. officials estimated it was worth about $100 million. five days after that conversation with mcdaniel, trump backed down. on the late show with steven colbert last night, jonathan

discussed photos he saw on january 6th. >> i got a hold of this photographer and i saw all the photographs. >> you saw? >> i saw all the photographs and it's wild to see that he was in a loading dock in an underground parking garage beneath the capitol complex, no place to sit and no desk or chairs. he was in this concrete for like parking garage with his family and this is the vice president of the united states and he's like holdup in a basement and i twoent the vice president if i can publish those photographs. i have a suspicion that the january 6th committee is going to want to see those photos. >> wow. >> it's so good, we'll hear it again. >> elise, here is a guy who's

trying to have it both ways, mike pence but on that day on january 6th, we heard chants of "hang mike pence," we saw the news and we saw them chased the family and we heard stories of pence who's not being sure who was around him and who he could not trust in uniform and being rushed downstairs with his family and donald trump actually whipping the crowds up even more while this is going on while he knew he was endangered by tweeting. >> i can't work out in my head and maybe you can explain it better than i could think about it. everyone was so upset. the whole country was riveted watching this insurrection happening. if you were inside where there is combat going on and that's

scary, you have ptsd afterwards. there was a threat to so many of these members and mike pence and afterwards it seems like republicans may finally use it as an excuse to get rid of donald trump once and for all and a guy who has the new reporting who does not want to be republicans anymore. why did they get scared and back away? >> when we sat down with sources for months, it was so clear that a lot of people on the republican trump's side did not process what happened on a constitutional level or even on a emotional or personal level. as much as they'll resign to how this all unfolded and disgusted in some ways privately, they remained in fear of trump and he has a political capitol. if they want a future in this party, they're not going to contest him in any major way. a refrain from pence had become another day in january. >> think for a moment of the sad

success of this event of january 6th. they taken a day of the government of the united states nearliover thrown. it was televised. they have moved that from the point of insurrection into bloodstream. for now it's a matter of whose side were you on, right or left? the republican party standing up and say january 6th was really a big deal. november 3rd was bigger. that's what trump said the other night. the election was illegal. the other question is and to you robert, you live in a town that needs on gossips. merrick garland is an honorable man. you hear any rumors or skuttles

whatever that some of the administration thinks he may be too much of a judge and not enough of a prosecutor. there are frustrations among democrats on capitol hill. >> there needs top some kind of a john dean stepping forward. no one is come forget ward, this is a criminal conspiracy to overthrow an election and commit fraud in the united states by collecting all these claims of voter fraud and presenting them into the public and into trump. there has not been a breakthrough at that kind of significant level. many democrats who i have spoken to said still, that's not enough of an excuse. because if garland does not do anything in their eyes then biden can't govern. i need my own presidency. he feels until the shadow of nixon going away, he could not

govern and for biden, the shadow of trump remains. >> by the way, richard haas from an undisclosed location, he's trying to get credit. he's quite right and i remember this now. there is a hold over in russia. biden asked u.s. ambassador to russia to stay over there. so, yea -- >> come on. former president obama was back on the world stage making an urgent call at the u.n. climate summit in scotland. >> the thing that we gotten for

us is humanity have done hard things before. i believe that we can do hard things again. yes, the process will be messy. i guarantee you every victory will be incomplete. we'll face more setbacks, sometimes we'll be force ds to settle for imperfect compromises because even if they don't achieve everything we want, at least they advance the cause and move the ball down the field. but, if we work hard enough for long enough, those partial victories add up. the united states, of course, some of our progress stalled

when my professor decided to unilaterally pull out of the paris climate. i was not happy about that, despite four years coming from the top. the american people need our commitment under the paris agreement. and not only that, the rest of the world stayed in the deal. and now with president biden and his administration rejoining the agreement, the u.s. government is once again engaged and prepared the take a leadership role. >> joining us now from the climate conference, epa administrator michael reagan. thank you very much for being on the show this morning. what is being accomplished at the climate conference?

what are some of the points on the board? >> a lot is being accomplished and the president came in last week and up the ante. there is a dozen of officials here talking about exactly what we are doing domestically to advance the goal, ranging from clean electricity to reducing methane solution and we are not only reducing climate -- >> what is one specific thing china needs to do on climate change? >> you know i think china needs to develop an aggressive goal to reduce carbon and stick with that. i think we are having conversations with china about how they determined of what goals they could meet that

aligns with the goal of the rest of the world is setting. china need to reduce their carbon from coal plant and curve their mission from methane, china needs to join the world in looking at how we reduce these pollutants. >> administrator, do thank you think it hurts the biden administration's stance coming into this summit that we had no clear deliverables from congress in our own work and progress to combat climate change? >> you know i think president biden came into glasgow delivering on all the bipartisan infrastructure deal and soon hopefully delivering on his build back better bill agenda. we are not waiting on congress. agencies like epa have taken aggressive action. we have proposed rules to reduce

hsc which are more potent. we proposed a mission standard for cars and we just proposed -- the president has a lot to be proud of domestically. that's what we are here talking about with the rest of the national community. we want congress to pass these bills. we need these bills to pass and resources but there are a lot of actions that cabinet agencies can take and we are leaning in. >> good morning mr. reagan, let's talk about the build back better bill and what's your point of view. the top line number is $1.5 trillion or $1.5 trillion. from people watching, what's inside these bills may change the trajectory of climate

change, not just in america but around the world. >> $550 billion invested in climb change mitigation. tax incentives and spurring economic development and technological entrepreneurship. it's game changing. we are creating new business models and we are putting technology to use that we never put to use. there is a huge opportunity to send the right signal to the market, don't stop, don slow up. keep going because this is going to be good for people but it's also going to be good for technology, america's igenuity and so we are very excited about that. we know we have crumbling infrastructure and we know our bridges need repairing so collectively, these are historic investment in america, making us

competitive in climate. >> all right, michael, thank you so much. >> we greatly appreciate you being with us. good luck. >> so, willie, you start ed here. >> oh. you know michael with the governor, right? he was once with the governor. that's from a friend in bosbost. >> good morning joe, if willie would like to run for the boston mayor -- are you going turn your back on it? i care about you and i don't care about you for the spring. >> willie, i will do it if you will do it.

>> mika, your knees, you can't even stand anymore. >> michael can do this. >> i want to do it. >> here is the deal. >> you will walk it. >> willie can run it. >> i am not going to make a promise. >> that's good. >> my girls. >> what about them? >> don't do it. >> joe, are you doing it? >> no. >> barnacle will go on scooters. >> right here. >> boston marathon for the fox foundation. >> i need to train. >> willie, by the way -- >> willie, first of all, ill love to do it. i am really scared but i think we should do it. for the record when you have to do your redo across the finish line, i did think the kiss with christina was really cute. >> that was a surprise when i crossed the finish line,

christina was standing there with the medal and a hug. >> beautiful. >> boston. >> will you wait for me at the finish line? >> well, it depends. can we watch the game and watch the marathon? >> yes. >> i will do it. >> you can watch the ball game, it starts at 11:00 a.m. you can come out of the red sox, the winner goes to the kenmore square. >> mike and i will be watching the game. i will give you a cigar, we'll smoke it right here. >> i will be there, sweetie. >> that timer, i ran at 3:58. that to reenact my finish. >> they had the list of all

candidates. >> 3:58. >> amazing. >> i would think one and done, this is a really hard marathon, you got to try london and chicago or berlin, you will shave half an hour off. >> nobody mentioned boston. >> maybe linda can get our passes and we'll be in our motor rised scooters taking pictures. >> we can go our scooters and go along with willie. >> or mika. >> i like it. >> looks like that's going to do it. >> we are strongly considering it. >> for the michael j. fox. >> and my mom. >>. >> bob costa. what are you looking at this week? >> everything. >> you got to pay attention. >> who else going to get us the

subpoena and what are they going to do to piece together of the campaign size of the insurrection. they're clearly going into the campaign in a new way and that's a fresh target for reporting. >> robert costa, thank you so much for your reporting. the book with bob woodward is "peril." >> it's great to have you onset, we are here everyday. come any time you want. >> still ahead on "morning joe." >> what we are learning of the event. i am glad we are covering this again. you can see it from many different angles. i don't understand why the concert did not stop. those are the big questions surrounding the deadly crowd surge over the weekend.

morgan chesky joins us with the latest from houston. the prosecution in the trial of rittenhouse is expected to rest its case as early as today following critical testimonies from one of the men he shot. >> nbc's gabe gutierrez takes us inside the kenosha courthouse and what america's founders learn from the greeks and romans and how that shaped our country. we'll dig into the nation's founding principles. and, oh my god, i am so excited. rachel ray will join us. i love her and she rescues animals. we'll be right back. you are watching "morning joe." .

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the fbi is joining the in investigation in the crowd surge in houston that left eight people dead and many injured. gabe gutierrez is joining us from houston. morgan, good morning, lay out for us all the questions surrounding what happened? >> reporter: good morning, there are a lot of moving parts in this investigation. the memorial for those eight victims grow and the scrutiny figuring out how this could have happened. police are calling this an criminal investigation and trying to find some concerts here as some concert goers fight to stay alive. >> reporter: this morning every

frame of astro's world fest concert painting a deadly crowd surge. and scrutiny on the response of the massive crowd. more than 500 officers and 750 security guards were on-site. it was not enough. police chief visiting scott personally before the show, expressing concerns regarding public safety. >> some where in this crushing sea of fans, eight victims who lost their lives. one of them, 21-year-old acosta, literally the weight of the crowd suffocaing him. >> his father is heartbroken. >> i love my son. it could have been you and you. >> the family joining a growing number of lawsuits. >> what was happening inside that crowd just a complete lost of control. even i am a big guy and i could

not control where i was going. >> not accused of doing so on friday, scott is no stranger to inciting crowds. >> the rapper encouraged the fans to rush the stage in chicago. in 2017 he pled guilty for disorderly conduct. >> after friday, he says he's devastated and he'll cover all funeral costs and provide all funeral aids. >> the crowd just started going crazy and chuck goes i can't breathe, i can't breathe. >> reporter: now, he's in a coma and his hopeful family is by his sigh. >> a lot of things could have prevented that. >> there is no excuse for it.

>> reporter: we are learning that travis scott will not be performing at a concert in vegas. he's too distraught to play. he's promising full refund who bought ticketsoncert. >> again, the question when you look at the different angles and you see performer continuing to sing as an injured or dying person being passed along the top of the crowd. people climbing on the stage begging saying, screaming and crying saying there's stop the concert. they refused to stop what they are doing to tell someone to stop the concert. it's unbelievable. i don't understand how this happened and a lot of people are sharing on twitter or instagram. other musicians who immediately when they see someone

endangered, stop. they're the ones who are in control. >> the person right there with the microphone is in control of that concert musicians are kno it. they stop to help the person. there is been viral video the past couple of days and especially adele's video and i saw one last night, a woman was getting pushed around and threw his guitar down. >> here they had people dancing on the ambulance. >> we have a performer here arrested for inciting crowds. looks like you had people that were being carried out. he continues to perform and people begging to stop time the and time again and it just

continued. >> yeah, by the way, it was warned beforehand that this situation may follow. >> the chief of houston police had a meeting, he said it was brief but respectful with head of security. this is a volatile situation, please keep an eye on it. i want to read the quote from the houston police chief. 9:30 p.m. that's when a few people started going down. our people stepped up and went to the producer saying hey, we got people going down. the show ended at 10:10 p.m. >> people were dying in the crowd. 40 long minutes until they actually stopped the show a little bit earlier. >> and also, you asked a question. why didn't the police stop the show? >> it's not like they have to talk to a performer on stage. >> if the performer bears different responsibility in this case, if the houston police had

concerns about this, why didn't they shut it down? >> i don't know. >> we'll find out. this is obviously reported and it's a criminal investigation. they have plenty of evidence and criminal malpractice took place here. two or three people up on stage screaming and begging to stop the show. we heard from morgan chesky, there were 500 officers on-site. i don't know if they were houston police or harris county police. 500 officers is what morgan chesky reported. what were they doing there and they were unable to stop the show themselves? >> i was trying to piece together at least different angles of this from all the cell phone videos that's being pass

ed around twitter. one of the problems was the music was so loud. it brings us back to the people who control the speakers and the person with the microphone. >> i get that. i get that. >> you know the loudness of the crowd. >> i get all of that. but you have eye sight. you are trained to observe what's going on. >> general admission is -- most people watching probably are too young to remember. mike, you and i remember late in 1970 in cincinnati, people rushed into get the best places. people were trampled and killed.

this was could have been predicted. >> i will tell you 15 or 17 years, my kids every time they said they wanted to go to a concert, i would say okay, you are not going general admission. >> and they're like dad, dad. >> the reason why is this has been happening for quite some time. >> i am sorry, arena acts need to stop having general admission. i am sorry if that's a buzz kill to you. you don't have to have seats in every space, you can have road off sections, a section or b section so there can't be a surge forward top crush people, to crush nine years old. >> travis scott has a record here. >> a 14-year-old going to see

his rapper. >> to go to a concert and lose your life, is terrible. >> i remember i was at a concert with my kids about a month ago at central park. great show. >> the cops first said there is lightning moving in and we have to stop the show. the acts and the crowd. it was not dangerous. finally the cops took over the pa system. so over. they shutdown the lights and his mic and got the crowd into it. it was a cool scene. >> the cops waited for five minutes and said show's over. >> i don't know what the deal it with houston county cops. >> i know in new york city if this was going on, it would have been shutdown. >> for the life of me, the performer bears to disproportion

way of his trok record. you have to look at the cops in. why didn't they stop in faster. >> they certainly have the authority to. let's return to the idea that the person who spike the music and the rice and there is a whole in the crowd, they would stop the show. there is someresponsibility-- >> there is the question on his mind. at one point someone there needed help and continued to perform and sees an ambulance going into the crowd and he kind of turns around and you can see him behind the camera's back view and he's going what the f is that?

i think he thought his show is being interrupted. clearly he does not stop when clearly people need help. how is that possible? >> i was at a youtube concert and a fight broke out right down in front of the started. >> bono not only stopped the concert, but walked to the end of the stage to where the fight occurred and went into a two or three-minute riff about how, you know, they weren't going to perform, weren't going to continue to perform that evening if this stuff continued because it didn't represent the whole of the crowd and certainly doesn't represent the values u2 espoused personally. you figure it out, get these two out of here and then we will continue to perform and that's exactly what happened. >> and that's what didn't happen here and that's why a lot of kids that went to a concert are dead. we'll be right back.

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welcome back to "morning joe." 54 past the hour. a few months ago we had veteran journalist and pulitzer-prize winning author tom ricks on for a weekend journey for his book "first principles: what america's founders learned from the greeks and romans and how that shaped our country." those discussions got amazing responses from viewers and tom is back with the paperback edition of the book. great to have you. >> it's great having you. we loved having you for our residency. we need you moved to a new room. that's very exciting for the paperback. but you talked about what the founders learned and how they learned. i'm curious what you've learned over the past year since you released the book and have been on this journey with the founders? >> that's a great question.

and from the point of view of this book, the biggest event in the last year and i think the biggest event of the american history of last year was in fact on the capitol january 6th. i mention this because people tend to forget the united states constitution was written in response to an insurrection. shea's rebellion in western massachusetts is one of the things that provoked the constitutional convention to come together in philadelphia. maybe mike barnicle can speak to the issue of the massachusetts people having an insurrection back then. the second thing that's happened is we had this contested election. this really made me appreciate the corners of the constitution we don't think about. one of those corners is that we face run elections for a federal office, which puzzling because why wouldn't the federal

government had done that? but had donald trump been in charge of the federal election, he simply could have said, i'm not going to certify it. i'm going to stay in office. in a couple of ways we've seen the brilliance of the constitution of the last year, resiliency of it and hidden corners of it can become very important very quickly. >> mike? >> tom, first of all, i had met daniel chase. i didn't really know him well. secondly, the revolution does continue in massachusetts. my question to you is off of your loyalty and your knowledge of what the founding fathers tried to establish and did establish somewhat successfully, i would think, the republic that we live in, what do you think the founding fathers would think today about the coverage of money in this country, where the stock market is like a daily story and money that doesn't reach down, that doesn't fall down, doesn't trickle down in

ordinary working people, just the coverage of money. >> i think they would think that the role that money plays in america's society today is not helping. i think specifically they would say that the role that money plays in american politics meets their precise definition of the word corrupt. the fact that corporations basically regulate politicians is the opposite of how they wanted this country designed. i think they would be appalled by that almost more than anything else in our current situation. they're used to seeing the mob. they knew the mob was out there. they wrote the constitution in part to deal with it. but they did not expect to have the financial world basically run congress rather than congress regulating the financial world. >> jonathan lemire. >> hey, tom, good morning. there was a lot of, of course, criticism right now about

congress and particularly some say the senate and it's not built to work in 2021. walk us through, isn't that sort of the point? wasn't madison and the other founders deeply suspicious of the people and will of the people and he tried to almost create this gridlock? talk about that. >> well, i love jimmy madison for this, little jimmy. he basically says let's disperse power broadly across the country between the states, between the states and the federal government, between three branches of the federal government, between two parts of the legislative branch. that said, i think they also wrote the constitution to be amended. back when they wrote the constitution, delaware was 1/12th of size of virginia, the largest state. now wyoming is 1/50th the size of california. so they would be open to

amendments. that's better, this system. one thing we need to think about is whether the larger states, texas, pennsylvania, florida, new york, illinois, should have three, four senators and smallest states have only one. >> todd, gene robinson. did you come away from this book with more or less respect for the founders as individuals, as thinkers? >> a lot more respect for washington, which surprised me. he was not known as a thinker but he learned well from experience. and a lot more respect for james madison, who really should be better appreciated. in retrospect i have to say for thomas jefferson, great words, great aspirations in the declaration of independence. but of all of the founders probably the biggest hypocrite and less respect for john adam

these people to life. i washington, i concur with you as far as just reading it, washington was somebody that seemed too distant, too remote, too cold. i couldn't -- i just -- because we grew up seeing pictures like this. and you just couldn't see the humanity in him. but it was extraordinary that you talk about the classical education that all of these founders got, that too often they were stumping over themselves but george washington, the father of our country, learned how on the frontier, learned fighting in battles with the british, learned in such a way that he was often looked down and mocked and ridiculed quietly by other founders for not being as

educated. what did you say, everybody at greek and roman philosophy and literature around? for washington he read books about surveying and i think you said hunting. >> and farming too. interestingly after his presidency he got interested into the question of ab solution of slavery and rest of the 1890s tried to figure out a way out of savory. which leads me to my next book, i think you will like more than this one, i'm writing a military perspective on the civil rights movement, looking at the civil rights movement as a series of campaigns like the civil war. and i'm seeing some parallels between martin luther jr. and george washington. >> it's interesting, one of the most fascinating interviews of the past year is when we were talking and i think gordon reed

was there and i said how do you balance thomas jefferson the hypocrite, the slave owner, with the person who wrote words that drafted a document that freed more people than anybody else in the history of the world? and she just sort of said, well, what else do you want from your leaders? and that was -- i felt that was so clarifying that we do look at what was done and you look at jefferson's words. like you said, perhaps the worst hypocrite among the entire group of founders and yet you look at everybody from frederick douglass to martin luther king, who used his words as a sword for freedom. you look at abraham lincoln, when he finally had enough trying to split the difference to keep the union together. what did he do? he took the declaration of

independence, he said i'm applying this to the constitution, the hell with the south and jefferson's words mean what jefferson's words say. and that was the emancipation followed. >> you're absolutely right. and also harvey milk invokes jefferson's words at the beginning of the gay liberation movement. and in the 19th century when the first wave of the women's movement in america also invokes those words. i think they are so crucial, the first part of the declaration of independence which says this is what this country should try to be. and we are still trying to be that. we're still trying to figure out who we are. and i think the bottom line is we are still an experiment. we can still blow this, and i think we've gotten pretty close to blowing this experiment in the last year, but the american experiment lives on. it's the responsibility of all of us to try to keep it alive. >> all right, the paperback

edition of "first principles" is out now and tom ricks, thank you so much for coming back on the show. we look forward to seeing you again and for the next book, which sounds fascinating. >> you're welcome. >> tom ricks, thank you. all right. so we have a lot to talk about, including the big issue of covid mandates. let's first get a report from nbc's miguel almaguer. >> reporter: the white house is trying to fight off a legal challenge threatening the nation's most aggressive vaccine mandate, responding to a federal appeals panel that temporarily halted the new rule, the justice department says it will vigorously defend osha's plan to require businesses with 100 or more employees to ensure workers are vaccinated or wear a mask and face weekly testing. >> the department of labor has a responsibility to keep workers safe and the legal authority to do so. >> reporter: with enforcement set for early next year, the

rule would impact roughly one in four americans. >> this is an incredible overreach by the executive branch in the government that we've never seen, it's unprecedented. >> reporter: the owner of ralph's market, a grocery chain in louisiana and mississippi that employs some 500 people, is a plaintiff in one of the lawsuits. >> this is not a lawsuit that is anti-vaccine. this is a lawsuit that is anti-mandate. >> reporter: with vaccine mandates quickly becoming a focal point for national divisiveness -- >> i know you don't offer it to just anyone, okay. >> reporter: -- state farm stood behind pitchman and quarterback aaron rodgers, who said he was immunized, later caught covid and then said the woke mob tried to cancel him after he chose not to get vaccinated. we don't support some of the statements that he has made, says state farm, but we respect his right to have his own personal point of view. meantime, in los angeles

restaurants, gyms and hair salons were told to start verifying vaccination status. the nation's second-largest city was some of the country's toughest rules. >> this is mandatory. i want to be protected. >> it is unfortunate in america we do not have a choice. >> reporter: the fight not just to vaccine but to mandate. >> joining us now, the mayor of new york city, bill de blasio. thank you so much for being on this morning. by the way, thank you for coming last night to my mother's event. it was absolutely lovely and your words were ever so kind. i could not have been more moved. and you and joe are like expert ribbon cutters, so you guys have done that before. >> it's a skill. it's a real kill. >> joe, your form was excellent. i just want to say. >> giant scissors are important. >> giant scissors are great. i followed the mayor, who said everybody stop, look at the camera. like you've done it before. >> look at that form. >> unbelievable. >> raised the scissors i --

>> in triumph. >> for the new york institute of technology, which we opened an exhibit in a new gallery there yesterday, student center, and my mother's huge cherry bench made out of one tree trunk is right on broadway in the lincoln center so you can walk by and see it and students enjoy it. we celebrated her body of work. our thanks to the new york institute of technology, suzanne mushio and dr. hank folly for having us and mr. mayor. >> when you told the stories of your folks sitting on the bench and bond they had -- how many years? >> 64 years. and they sat on that bench every evening, spring, summer and fall on our property in mclean, virginia and just look out and just be together. it was really nice. >> it's true. your family is amazing. what your family has done for this country in so many ways, now multiple generations, more to come.

>> and that includes you too. >> and i said he's pretty good too! >> from architects of the world to cable news host. it goes down. >> mr. mayor, as we were going to the event, i was struck, it was as if someone turned a light switch on, i was struck by how packed new york city was. when willie and i are on the subway or when we're in taxis, we're going around cabs and talking, everybody always says, well, it will fill up again new york city when the tourists come back from overseas. well, they came back and you can see it yesterday. just packed. >> it's unbelievable, joe. we had the marathon on sunday, which was a great comeback event. >> did you know willie ran that? >> i remember. i remember. >> he's going to run the boston marathon next. >> a triumph of the human spirit, truly. >> and not to just talk about the city for a minute, to see our city from that vantage

point, starting on the bridge and watch the neighborhoods and signs change from english to spanish to mandarin and to get that view of the city and think about the police and firefighters and organization that went in to pulling that off. it's the reason i finished, because of this city. it was beautiful. >> wow. >> and gives you the read of south boston. >> i love how you say that because it's how new york city came back from covid, the resiliency, compassion of the people of the city. now marathon sunday, international travelers come back monday, tens of thousands already. what we are seeing is this city has come back to life because we got vaccinated. i mean, remember why it was possible. >> what percentage of new yorkers were vaccinated?

>> this is amazing. adults were 87%. among employees, because we did a mandate, 93%. that made us the safest place to be. here's the breaking news, we now the highest level of books for the time between thanksgiving and new year's with both u.s. travelers and international travelers, number one destination, new york city, because it's the safe place to be and it's a magical time of year. >> and mandates work. >> mandates work. >> there's going to be noise and there's going to be conflict and you're going to have to hold your ground if you believe in a mandate. but, listen, we are seeing it in the proof. people respond to a decision, a clear, straightforward decision. and in the end folks went and got vaccinated. they got vaccinated, life went on, but it's allowed everything else to come back. offices are filling up again, restaurants filled, tourists are coming back. we couldn't have done it without the vaccine mandate. >> that's the thing, willie, people have been trying to turn this into something that it's not for a long time.

but when we were talking about acting responsibly a year ago, people would be screaming about oh, well these businesses are shut down. well, that's the whole thing, you want people to be able to go to the small businesses, the family restaurants, the hardware stores, all of the places in your hometown, you want them to be able to go back there and not have what we have seen in other parts of the country, stop/start, stop/start, stop/start. it seems so many people just didn't figure out this health care crisis was an economic crisis but the economic crisis would end when the health care crisis would end. look at new york city. >> we've been talking about this a year and a half, the complaints about violation of freedom with mask mandates and social distancing and schools being closed, we're totally upside down. we always thoughtloaded.

>> got a good meal. it's just buzzing. i don't have the numbers, if it's back to pre-covid the way it looked, but, man, it sure felt like it. >> it's getting really close. the missing link has been the international tourists. now, again, finding out we're the number one destination by the bookings, we have the facts that people want to be here and folks have been waiting years now to come back, i think that's going to supercharge this recovery. and i think what it says, your point about freedom is very powerful. what is freedom? freedom is the ability to go out and live your life, have your job, be with the people you love. we were deprived of that for most of two years. >> right. vaccination actually gave us back that freedom, and i think people are going to realize as they see these mandates work, wait a minute, that's actually the thing we wanted. >> yeah. >> speaking of those reunions, it's going to bring you memories of your favorite movie.

>> uh-huh. >> but tom costello has a look at some of the first travelers coming, finally, to see loved ones here in america. take a look. >> oh, my god! >> reporter: at airports nationwide, hugs, tears and laughter as americans reunited . a two-year wait for jill and mark chambers in london. >> now it's the christmas selection boxes that english people get. >> reporter: who spent the weekend packing to see her sister in connecticut. >> absolutely, the hardest thing i have ever done. i miss my sister so much and their children and son. it's been devastating. >> reporter: it was january 2020 when president trump shut down most flights from china to contain covid. the travel ban then quickly expanded. with vaccination rates rising, the white house reopened u.s. borders to nationals from 33 countries. but to travel to the u.s. most adult travelers must provide proof to the airlines that they're fully vaccinated and provide a negative covid test

taken within three days of departure. heavy traffic at both the canadian and mexican borders, vaccines required but no test. overseas, airlines reported mostly full flights to the u.s. >> we've seen surges in increase 340% for travel to the u.s., which is absolutely massive. >> reporter: hopper.com reports the most in-demand u.s. destination for foreigners, new york, miami, and los angeles. domestic airline ticket prices expected to move higher in the weeks and months ahead. at jfk airport, mark and jill chambers finally reunited with their american family. >> i couldn't wait to get on the plane because i knew i was going to see my sister. it's been absolutely overwhelming for weeks. >> i love you so much! >> reporter: happiness replacing heartache, as america reopens to the world. tom costello, nbc news, at denver international airport.

>> that was very moving. >> beautiful. >> you're right, jonathan lemire, reminded me of scenes from "old school." >> yes. >> and "wedding crashers." >> and "love actually" there. >> yeah. >> which is your favorite movie. >> no, it's not. it's a good movie. >> you've love that movie. how many times have you seen it? >> wait, it's not "you got mail" which i saw the other night and teared up again. i thought about our dear friend nora ephron. i miss her so much. so governor -- >> wait, wait, wait. >> here we go. >> wait a minute. >> governor, mr. mayor, might you -- >> might you? >> hold on for a second. >> what do people have to do to get here when they come from overseas, when they come from europe? >> look, it's simple. being vaccinated gets you on

that flight, gets you into our restaurants, gets you into broadway. broadway is full, it's beautiful. people are coming from all over back to go to the broadway shows that are unlike anything in the world. >> safely. >> safely. >> by the way, this is really important, the employees, all of the folks who work on broadway, actors, folks behind the scenes, they've been safe the whole way through and that has sustained broadway. mandates not only helped the folks coming to see the show but all of the folks who work on the show and keep the show going. >> on vaccines, mr. mayor, my children ages 10 and 7 vaccinated last night. >> congratulations. >> thank you. >> but there's ongoing discussions with some of the labor unions. give us an update where things stand, what public service workers are not vaccinated and your vaccination for the incoming mayor, who has not committed to keeping mandates on january 1st. >> i believe eric adams believes in a strong approach to vaccination. what we're all looking forward

to is the day we can end the covid era and start to normalize, and i think he spoke to that too, getting us to that point to his credit. but the bottom line is overwhelmingly the unions agreed this is happening, they've got to work with it. we have 23 unions who signed on to an approach to make sure vaccinations happen, that are fair to working people. it's been a huge step. 83% of the workforce and a lot more will come in. >> we saw an article that talked about -- talked about how children being vaccinated and guess the pfizer pill may -- may actually move us closer to an end game. >> that's right. that's right. vaccination is the thing we have now and we can still do a lot more to maximize it. we're out in schools today vaccinating kids in schools. we think parents will come in droves to get their kids to be safe. keep moving on those adults we haven't reached yet and then treatments are coming. that changes the whole ball

game. >> i do have one question, are teachers in new york city required to be vaccinated? >> yes, absolutely. >> that is a vaccine mandate for them. i know it was contentious, friends would have children going to school with unvaccinated teachers. >> it was so interesting, it was contentious until it wasn't. you put down the mandate -- and this is what i think will happen on the federal level as well and god bless president biden for what he's doing. mandate has people accept it, get safe and go on. parents needed to know their children were safe going back to school. after a year and a half, a lot of kids had not seen a classroom and were suffering for it. when americans knew all of the adults in the room were vaccinated, it encouraged them to bring their kids back. >> mr. mayor, big picture question for you. when you were elected there was a lot of talk about how you aspire to the job, you go in the oval and get your first daily brief and threat assessment and you go, whoa, i didn't realize

what was going on behind the curtain. what is your advice to the mayor-elect eric adams about the job of running new york city? >> expect the unexpected. it is exactly what you described. any one of us think we have a picture of it going in the door until you get there. and then challenge after challenge, crisis after crisis, no one in 1,000 years could have told me we would have had this kind of pandemic and everything that would have gone with it. if you had said that to me, willie, eight years ago when i was preparing to take office, i would say come on, that couldn't happen here. but it did. so many other unexpected things. what we are seeing with the climate crisis and extreme weather. a mayor, governor, president nowadays has to be ready for absolutely anything and be ready to make sudden adjustments. sometimes you take the game plan you started with, you have to put that aside real quick because the world changes quickly nowadays. >> all right, mayor bill de blasio, thank you for everything. >> thank you. congratulations, mika, and to your mom. >> yes, yeah, mom. >> come back soon.

>> we'll have much more on "know your value" about that. still to come -- a patient with coronavirus returned to the hospital with an apology to the staff members who saved his life. we'll explain why. plus, a look at some of the critical new testimony in the ongoing trial of kyle rittenhouse. we'll get the latest from kenosha, wisconsin. also ahead congressman ruben gallego joins us with his new memoir describing the eternal bonds of the marines, the hardest-hit unit of the iraq war. and celebrity cook rachael ray is going to be our guest this morning! we're watching "morning joe." we will be right back.

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welcome back to "morning joe." 25 past the hour. a recovered covid-19 returned to the hospital that saved his life and apologized to the staff for not being vaccinated. over the summer, 54-year-old richard solis tested positive for covid and later developed multiple blood clots on his lungs. doctors at harvard medical center in seattle feared the clots would travel to his heart or brain. solis spent 28 days in the icu and described his life as, quote, literally hanging on a thread. he eventually recovered and was discharged in september but couldn't stop thinking about the staff. telling "the washington post," quote, my goodness, they saved my life. in hindsight i felt bad and i knew in my heart, in my mind and

my consciousness that it all could have been avoided. late last month solis returned to the hospital as a visitor to apologize to the staff for not getting the vaccine, telling one doctor, quote, i deeply regret not making the decision to get vaccinated. solis told "the post" he opted against getting vaccinated because he was confused by conflicting information. he'd seen one thing in the news, he said, only to have it negated by something he saw on social media or heard in the grocery store checkout line. so there you go. as the january 6th house select committee attempts to gather more information about the insurrection, our next guest, who was among the combat veteran lawmakers hailed for taking charge that day and getting his colleagues to safety describes that day with optimism, calling it, quote, the last gasp of a dyeing attitude of hate and division. and the democratic member of the house armed services committee,

congressman ruben gallego of arizona joins us now. he's the author of the new book "they called us lucky: the life and after life of the iraq war's hardest-hit unit." and i can't wait to talk about that. but first, congressman, i want to ask about your comments about january 6th. because it could be seen as a last gasp but a lot of us who studied this closely fear the lack of accountability, long march toward perhaps someone being forced to take responsibility, perhaps maybe criminal investigation, the fact that republican lawmakers in office and on capitol hill in d.c. right now won't recognize it as an insurrection, won't even recognize biden's win out loud, i don't see it as a last gasp but perhaps you can provide for me some hope. >> well, the last gasp can last pretty long, but i do agree, at

least when i wrote this, i was hoping there would be accountability. i didn't think republicans in congress would have this much temerity and be afraid of donald trump so much or be so cavalier about their duties as americans to uphold the constitution and protect democracy. but, look, we've been through some horrible times in this country. i do think that we can overcome this. i'm the son of immigrants, and my family came to this country for many reasons, but the most important reason is we are a democracy. the best of america will beat out the worst of america. it will take time, it will be difficult but we will win in the end. >> the question i would like to push a little bit, you have a congressman from your state, paul kozar, and i'm not going to mention what he tweeted but you know what he tweeted. these things continue.

especially because of lack of accountability. what is your take on that? >> look, paul gosar is just an awful human being. he's not representative at all about congress -- >> okay. that's too nice to be . and that's why i'm here to talk about the book because it talks about the best of america, the men that i worked with, that i walked next to for all walks of life. many are trump supporters. i'm probably the only democrat they actually like. we worked together, fought and a lot of them died together. this book talks about the best things that happen, best men really that ever really walked this earth. and it's a book i think people will find inspiring at least some portion about america. >> good morning, congressman. we'll let those comments stand for themselves, about your fellow congressman from arizona. let's talk about the book "they call us lucky."

your story is incredible. son of immigrants, grew up poor around chicago. guess the year before 9/11 and sent to iraq a few years after 9/11. the lucky part comes when you're talking about the group of marines you served with, a bit of an ironic title. what did you learn in that time around the marines and during your time in iraq? >> look, what i learned is that war is awful, and that everything i learned about, watched, you just showed a picture of my best friend jonathan grand still hard. what we learned in tv, and going to war is all bull and what happens in wars, you're there to keep each other alive. the aftermath of war is something no one talks about. and these men really were the best men our country ever produced and i wanted the world to learn about them, to know

their sacrifice. we're 15 years from the war and yet for many of us, it just happened yesterday. the more i go on, the more every year moves on, the more our story needed to be told. this book is really a memoir about them, not about me. >> congressman, i see the emotion in your eyes and i hear it in your voice and i understand it because it was a familiar conversation i have had with so many veterans when they start talking about the men and women along whom they served when they're in iraq, afghanistan or anywhere else and what extraordinary people they were. the disconnect between the life you lived in the marines and what you hear in our politics when people are happy to wave the flag or talk about the troops or thank you for your service and then lose track of you when you come back home. what do we need to be we approa day here to take care of our vets? >> look, the v.a. is doing much better. the story -- at one point the

v.a. was not great, did not shed great light on us. but at some point if they have to go talk to therapists and get the community demystified and ptsd. a lot of us avoided help for many years because we felt if we spoke about our kind of moral injury, kind of talk about having this, you know, sunkenness in my heart, that it made us weaker when, in fact, you know what we did to survive, what we did to just live every day, keep sane every day, was really a defense mechanism because at the end of the day, that's all you have. my whole goal for six months was not to die and not to dishonor the marine corps. >> congressman, thank you for this honest portrait of war as hell and taking a stand against the glorification of it. so much of the media that we ingest, you spoke about veterans and aftermath for american veterans but what are we going

to do for all of the afghans who worked with us who are still stuck in limbo, awaiting special immigrant visas and they just aren't getting processed in a timely manner and their lives are a threat? that is also really traumatic for those of us who love our friends and want to do right by them. >> look, and we actually had an interpreter named neil that died in one of the amphibious track that got pulled up because the u.s. couldn't get us submarine vehicles fast enough. i feel sorry for them. what we need to do is cut the red tape yet. there are too many steps for us to actually bring these afghan interpreters and their families back. let's get them the visas, get them to the second stage of countries, do further background checks, and lastly the taliban want any type of support, any type of aid from any of our

allies, it needs to be conditioned on the fact you have to release these men and women and let them travel out. i helped a couple afghan interpreters leave the country, and their families, and it was difficult. it was difficult to get them out. we had to sneak them across pakistan. even then when they got into pakistan, i had to put a lot of weight on the state department to get them out of the statehouse there. this is not a situation we can't handle but it does require an actual focus on it. we talked to both the trump and biden administration -- talked to trump for years about this problem and we talked to the biden administration as soon as they got in, so they would recognize what was coming. >> congressman, you're there working this issue on the front lines. i have encountered the same things, i have friends who are stuck and cannot get processed. what is the holdup with the state department and is the biden administration just not acting with urgency on this? >> i think on special immigration visas, they have started -- they actually are acting. the problem is just getting the

visas does not solve the problem. you have the taliban that are not letting many of these men and women leave. many are still in hiding. we need to put full diplomatic pressure on the taliban to release these families but there is and was for many years a back log. i've got to tell you, i'm not making excuses for biden, but myself and a group of veterans were howling at trump and trump administration for years for not processing these visas. there were years we only accepted 100 or so applicants. it's sad. >> congressman, congratulations again. congrats on the books. i just want to shift your attention back home obviously on the work being done at capitol hill, resuming next week after recess here, the passing of the bipartisan infrastructure bill, it got done. you guys voted late last friday but there's a lot still to be done, the rest of the reconciliation package and biden agenda. and there's been a lot of

distrust between parts of the democratic party, progressives, moderates. tell us where you stand right now, how confident are you that a deal can get done? can these divides be bridged? >> look, i appreciate that after last week, it feels like a year ago, i made a public comment i had distrust among some of my colleagues and many of them called me up and explained their position, where they were out and gave me their assurances and caucus's assurances they're going to be there in the end. yes, i trust them. they want the best for america and things that are found in the build back better agenda, child tax credit, childcare assistance, prescription competition and pricing, all of these things they know will be good for america. and it's also for them very good in real action. so i have faith this is going to get done. we're going to continue pushing. at the end of the day because this helps all of america, it's

hard for me to see why democrats don't get behind this. >> all right. the book is "they called us lucky: the life and after life of the iraq war's hardest-hit," congressman gallego, thank you so much for being generous not just with your story but emotions around it. we really appreciate it. coming up, the trial of kyle rittenhouse is set to resume this morning.

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>> if convicted, he faces a potential life sentence. his attorneys questioning one of kenosha's lead detectives, insists rittenhouse acted in self-defense. >> the only people that he fired at were people that had either kicked him, hit him with something, or pulled a gun on him. >> i would agree with that statement. >> wow. nbc's gabe gutierrez reporting. we're going to be obviously following this story. and talking about -- >> i mean, mike, this is a kid who brought an ar-15 across state lines and was running around kenosha playing, you

know, paratrooper. >> listen, we're just dropping in on this trial, we're just dropping in on the testimony, but that clip you just showed of the kenosha police homicide detective, basically ruling out the charge of intentional homicide in answering that question, when he's asked, you know, would you agree that the people that he shot either shot at him or punched him or pushed him or whatever the question was. >> what about the first shooting? the first person he shot? >> i don't know that we know that he was armed. >> yeah. >> we'll follow it and -- go ahead. >> but if the defense is self-defense, he's got the video of the defendant was just on the stand raising his gun up on him. >> i would say, if you're on the jury, intentional homicide, you've got to drop down from that based on some of the testimony. and it's limited testimony. we have to point that out. but limited testimony, you have to drop down from intentional homicide. >> my dad was quite a gun collector and i grew up around so many guns, and the whole

state line business, i mean, you follow that. he just hammered into my head that you never -- you make sure you obey all laws, the laws are so strict, that there would be actual repercussions for traveling across a state line with a gun that was not allowed -- >> and that gun. >> yes. >> all right. but that's the thing. the majority of gun owners are that way. and you have jackasses who are picking up, you know, getting weapons and now over the past couple of years, and running around with them hanging in the middle of protests in the street at night, just asking for trouble. >> 17-year-olds. >> the same questions that we were asking, it's a completely different thing. but, you know, we asked about the "rust" set. >> oh, yeah. >> the things that happened there would never happen in a household. not in your household. you grew up around guns. you grew up around guns. we all, you know, in the south -- not we all, but a lot

of us did. you just -- this isn't the behavior of people who are raised by law-abiding gun owners. >> to answer your question, he shot three. one of them was unarmed. this man here, of course, was. and the third tried to disarm him. he reached for his gun when he fired. >> gosh. okay. up next, a change of pace for sure. celebrity cook and emmy award-winning talk show host rachael ray is standing by. i can't wait! she joins us straight ahead on "morning joe." she joins us straight ahead on "morning joe."

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*laughs* learn more about home security or get our self-monitored solution starting at just $10 per month. welcome back to "morning joe." it is 52 past the hour. after a devastating house fire destroyed decades of her life's work, celebrity cook rachael ray is back with a new book and new

perspective. the businesswoman and author joins us now. her new book is entitled "this must be the place: dispatches in food from the home front." is it the place? where are you? how are you? and tell us about the new perspective. >> well, i mean, joe must love the title of the book. congratulations on your podcast. and now the melody "this must be the place" is one of my favorite songs of all time. it was basically a project during this pandemic to relate to the world. you know, i'm 53 years old and it's the first time the whole world went through some sort of pivot, loss, or rethinking of what home means and how we feel about each other and, you know, who's essential in our community. so we went through all of these

things together, as a planet. and i just started writing about that, really. john and i have been making over 250 shows between all of the daytime shows and "30-minute meals" from home for 20 months now. the first thing we lost was our privacy, the second thing we loss was our dog of 15 1/2 years, and then we lost our home, it burned into the ground. and i wanted to share with everyone how we felt about that and what it was to think about what home means. home is not your stuff. it's a state of mind. and as is written so beautifully in the song, how do you find your wings? how do you find the wings that cover you. you know, that's what you have

when you lose everything. john lost decades of music charts. i lost decades of my journals, my mother's letters to me and she had very bad mackular degeneration and it's hard for her to write letters anymore. the stuff gone, but you lived it. and if you have cognitive thought and are blessed enough to open your eyes, that's home. and you're surrounded by people that you love or you have a sense of community. that's what home is. it's not what you lose, it's what you have. >> it's so interesting, rachael, because -- no, thank you so much for sharing. because i did -- i noticed sort of a change in what you were sharing, how you were sharing, in terms of yourself and your relationships in, you know, your social media posts and i just love following you, because i like you a lot.

but to be homebound because of the pandemic, and then to lose the home, that is new perspective, where you really do focus on human bonds, which is something we even were celebrating last night, being out for the first time and being with friends. >> congratulations to your mom! >> she's amazing. >> it's so exciting. >> yeah. >> you know, the only time i can't watch you is when i'm with you, and they've made it so i'm literally seeing all of us at the same time. so i'm not missing a minute, actually. >> and we're together. and we're together. >> we're together. >> which is so nice. it's just -- you know, everyone has pivoted, not only their businesses in my industry, but their lives. you know, how much time do i want to spend at work? let's analyze how our lives are only worth something on weekends

and vacations versus every day. and that's the discussion i think that everybody's living through now. and as we come back to the world and as everything opens up and it's great to be sitting together again, and able to travel here and there and the world opening up to our country, it is just so interesting that we've learned more value for ourselves. you know, i think, especially women. always put themselves last on the list in life. and i think that we've all learned the value of each of our lives and the worth of the end of our day, the middle of our day. and growing up in a multi-generation family with my grandpa being my primary caretaker when i was a kid, that's always been the core of everything i do. i only want what's best for the larger of the community, and no

matter what time of day it is, i want to have a connection with my family. the family i make or the family i was born to. and i think we've all come to that place. and that's a good thing. and that's what i wanted to discuss. >> that's perfect. >> hey, rachael, it's willie. it's so great to see you. >> oh, my god, willie! congratulations! >> that's a reception. >> we are such big fans of your dad, of you, of michael fox. >> you're the best. >> yes! keep going! let me get out of the way here! >> i'm serious! our family deals with als and alzheimer's, that's our family's connection to parkinson's. we've been huge supporters of team fox for so many years and we were huge supporters of you. we went on your page, we were with you, not for the miles, but

we were with you, brother! >> you are the best. you've always been a big supporter of the michael j. fox foundation. i've seen you at all the events. you guys are so great and thank you for contributing. you know we're over $400,000 now of money raised. the goal was $100,000. so thank you for being a big part of that. i want to ask you quickly, rachael, before we have to go, about your foundation and the incredible work you do at the rachael ray foundation and what's happening in congress right now that you say may help some of the work you guys do. >> triple "b," build back better. you know, i wish -- you guys talk about this all the time. it is not about the number of the act, it's about the numbers that affect the people and why do we not just discuss that. yes, okay, we all want a great number with the cbo score, terrific. but if we just got this done, for me, john and i don't have

children, so for us, our kids are the kids of our country. and if we got this done, child poverty is cut 40% again for just one more year, but another year, awesome. 9 million kids would have access to free school meals, which is the only level playing field to lower childhood obesity, diseases that force children to take adult drugs way too early in their lives and their only access to good food. and if we got that, you would have the community eligibility provision that would allow those same children to go from five states to 50 states to have access to food all year long, including the summer. their families would be given a provision to buy good food from the grocery store to give their kids great nutrition. it feeds their brain, it feeds our next generation. >> yeah.

>> i just wish we would talk more about the numbers that matter, the numbers that are attached to human beings, not the numbers that are attached to an act. >> right. exactly right. rachael ray! you're so awesome! >> rachael, you're the best! >> i love you guys so much! so much love! >> the new book -- so much love! mwah! the new book is "this must be the place:dispatches and food from the home front." >> thanks, rachael. >> i've got something we've got to take care of right now. please come to me. so we're concerned about willie getting out of the studio -- >> i got you, baby. >> so mika is going to stand between stephanie ruhle and willie geist, because we saw what happened during the marathon, willie. >> i was going to do it the other way this morning. jump into your arms. >> i think i pulled a hammy on sunday jumping over that barrier. there's no chance it's going to