everything is about identity and how do i feel opposed to necessarily about ideas and ideology, the language matters profoundly. that's what you see republicans pounding on. it's what you saw youngkin pound on. take little snippets and be able to say, look, this speaks to a party that's out of step with you. that resonates in virginia. i think democrats worry it could resonate in other swing districts. >> safe bet that not all democrats agree on what the definition of a normal democrat is. jim vandehei, thank you for this. we'll see you again in a few minutes on "morning joe." before we go, just want to note, as i spoke to press secretary for the white house, they received criticism for not selling the bill. the things in the reconciliation bill, infrastructure bill, popular with american people, but voters didn't know what was in there. the president is off to baltimore today to start the process. we'll certainly be covering that all day on msnbc and, of course, tomorrow here on "way too early." thank you all for getting up

early with us today. "morning joe" starts right now. this week in covid history, it's november 2020, and covid is having a moment. >> more than 144,000 new cases. that is the single highest total since the pandemic began. >> but news flash, the president has gone missing. >> pick up that scent. where is he? go get him! >> why haven't we heard from the president? >> trump, nowhere to be found. >> we haven't seen him in a week. we have not heard his voice since last thursday. >> and nobody is missing trump more than the american people. ♪ usa ♪ >> we haven't seen violence or the anger. might have something to do with the fact that there is a very, very pungent smell of marijuana here. >> why not celebrate with jazz cigarettes? this election is over. >> this election is not over. far from it.

>> i've had a microphone in my face all day. when is trump going to concede? they can go to hell. i've had it with these people, let's fight back. >> the old lady is right, bring in the caucasian calvary. the proud boys. >> stop the steal. >> who have muscle as well as brains. >> i'm kind of dumb. >> qanon, question everything. >> we're talking about a virus that is no more deadly than the flu. >> alive! >> don't squeeze the shaman. something tells me we'll be seeing him again. >> i don't think we're going to have an interrupted transition to whoever is the next administration. i think we ought to quit all the hand-wringing. >> so many nervous nellys. what say you, secretary of state? >> there will be a smooth transition. >> great. >> to a second trump

administration. >> oh well, every horror movie needs a sequel. this has been this week in covid history. >> funny but not funny. >> seriously. >> good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it's wednesday, november 10th. this morning, we have developments in a number of stories we're following this week, including the latest testimony in the trial of kyle rittenhouse in wisconsin, and in the trial of the men accused of killing ahmaud arbery in georgia. new video of the surging crowd at the travis scott concert in houston, where eight people died. we'll tell you where that investigation stands. and green bay packers quarterback aaron rodgers takes full responsibility for his misleading statements about his vaccination status. >> not really. >> well, we'll show you what he said. >> not really. >> and the new penalties levied on him and his team. first, willie, some news breaking late last night, pretty big news. >> yeah, this is a big deal. a former judge is rejecting

donald trump's request to block to release of documents to the select house committee investigating the january 6th capitol insurrection. in denying a preliminary injunction, the judge said, quote, the public interest lies in permitting, not in joining, the combined will of the legislative and executive branches to study the events that led to and occurred on january 6th. president biden already waived executive privilege. quote, the plaintiff does not acknowledge the deference owned to the incumbent president's judgment. presidents are not king, and plaintiff is not president. select committee chair bennie thompson issued his own statement. quote, this decision affirms the importance of the select committee's work to get answers for the american people, recommend changes to the law to strengthen our democracy, and help ensure nothing like the attack of january 6th ever happens again. trump's attorneys immediately filed a notice to appeal.

the national archives plans to turn over documents by friday, barring an order from the appellate court. joe, to underline what we're talking about here, some of these documents include any notes the president took, any documents from mark meadows, his chief of staff, anything from the press secretary, the people in the room with the presidents. notes they have, documents they might have, speeches they were perhaps preparing to make, that all now, barring a change here in the next two days, goes over to the january 6th committee, this select committee. they'll have access now and a window into what the president was doing that day. >> if you look at the law, if you look at richard nixon and his battle as president of the united states, you look at that unanimous decision against him, donald trump has no standing whatsoever, legally, in any of this. again, the takeaway line, you said it, presidents are not kings, and this plaintiff is not even president. >> meanwhile, the house select committee investigating the

january 6th attack on the capitol sent out another round of subpoenas. ten more former administration officials, including some of president trump's closest advisers who were in the white house the day of the insurrection, have been asked to provide testimony and documents to the committee. former white house press secretary kayleigh mcenany, senior adviser to president trump steven miller, and personnel director john mcentee. nicholas luna is among those to testified. >> chief at politico, jonathan lemire. jim vandehei of axios. and joyce vance. thank you all for being with us. jonathan, let's start with you. you obviously covered donald trump and the trump white house,

now the biden white house. are these documents, in fact, going to be turned over to the january 6th committee? >> it appears that way. those on the committee are hopeful at the very least. now that trump and his allies have a few legal recourses to go, and there will be appeals, but certainly the sort of -- the firmness of, let's say, the judge's decision last night has given hope to those on the committee that i've been talking to that they will, indeed, see those documents. now, they're expanding the reach with this wave of subpoenas. you read through the names there. it is a who's who of trump world, the second tier. kayleigh mcenany, the press secretary, served in office through january 6th. steven miller, of course, the architect of many of trump's more infamous policy proposals, including the family separation, the children separated from the parents at the border, he remained in the white house late, you know, all the way through inauguration day. johnny mcentee, not a name

perhaps many viewers know, but a real power source within the white house as well. briefly dismissed by chief kelly, then he was brought back. he was often the last man in the room on many of trump's conversations. remains to be seen whether they'll cooperate. there have been varying degrees of cooperation among trump aides. steve bannon refuses and may face criminal charges. this committee says, look, we're proceeding and taking this seriously. they're trying to do this quickly. they know this all goes away if the republicans capture the house again next year. >> joyce, we basically got all the bold-face names now from the trump administration having been subpoenaed. bannon, meadows, mcenany, flynn, eastman, the list goes on and on. you have an interesting piece on msnbc, "steve bannon's subpoena case is taking longer than we want it to. that's a good thing." we were talking about the

frustration with the justice department, about giving this some teeth, giving the subpoenas teeth and what it'd signal to people down the line if they didn't have to answer these subpoenas. why do you say it is a good thing? >> well, there's no doubt that merrick garland ultimately has to make the decision to indict steve bannon is congress is going to be able to enforce not just the subpoena against him but also compel this other -- this new batch of witnesses we're seeing now. what we don't want is to see doj jump prematurely on an indictment. a lot of people pointed to the indictment of the former epa administrator which took eight or nine days when she was referred by congress. the doj didn't convict, they lost the case against her. it is important for doj to take the time to put the evidence together, resolve legal issues that bannon may present, and to be fully, as we say among prosecutors, a term of art, loaded for bear before they bring this indictment. >> jim vandehei, it seems that

donald trump's position is getting weaker by the moment. the claims of executive privilege, a lot of these people weren't obviously even working with the president, working in the white house. so it seems tenuous at best. do we think, do you think we're going to get a fairly full accounting of exactly what went on inside the oval office on january the 6th while the capitol was being stormed and attacked? >> i think it is clear we will, and in some cases, we've got an lot of it from the reporting that has been done, the books written. it's never a top secret, what's happening around donald trump, what his people are doing. the end portrait is going to be what you think it is, devastating in terms of the -- in terms of his ability where he could have stepped in and tried to slow this down, not gotten people fired up. we know now he was watching tv. he was enjoying this. he was cheering it on. we'll find out how much there was actual movement by him and

people around him. they want to find out, what were other people doing? i don't think donald trump was in there writing a speech, and you're going to find something negative there. it's more like, what were his people doing because of the signals he was sending by his behavior in and around that time? listen, the end of the day, republicans will rally around him, do what they're doing with the committee, saying it is a bunch to do about nothing, try to expel members who speak out from their party, kick them out of committees, out of the apparatus of the republican party because there is no room for it. i think history demands this. democrats are going to demand it. the people should remember what happened on that day and should have a full accounting. i think we will get a pretty good accounting of it. these legal cases, the string of losing these, is bad news for him. yes, you can get the steve bannons who i think will get a lot out of making a stand, saying they're not going to cooperate, but once you get subpoenaed and once you're forced to testify, most people do. they're not just going to cover for the big guy.

i think that's -- >> yeah. so it leads to a lot of questions, joe. by the way, speaking of kicking people out of committees, that will already be happening for people just doing their job, which i'll get to in a moment. but, okay, so they come, if they testify because they've been subpoenaed, and as jim vandehei laid out, it is laid out for everyone to see. some of it is quite stunning. what then? like, when does something add up to accountability in terms of what happened, in terms of the attack on the capitol? it appears to me that there was some sort of criminal activity that caused such a violent attack that led to deaths and maimings and our process being stopped. and on the lower level, people are going to jail. but what about the upper level? what is the accountability? what's the process? >> well, first of all, let's talk about the important thing that we will get from this. we're going to get a

transparency about what happened inside the oval office on january the 6th. that's going to be very important for historians in the future. it's also going to be very important for voters, whether they decide to disregard it or not. but, joyce, as far as the justice department goes, what do they need to find to bring charges for people who may have been part of a conspiracy to commit sedition against the united states government? >> so this is always the gorilla in the room. we don't know what's going on at doj because, traditionally, as you know, joe, prosecutors like to keep their investigations private. in some cases, they're compelled to do that because of grand jury secrecy. but, honestly, people who have looked and tried to read the tea leaves have seen very little indication that doj is pursuing any sort of prosecutive work aimed at people in and around the oval office in regards no january 6th.

that's been a head scratcher, given the way we've seen the evidence unload in public. so there is a real value to the work the select committee is doing in the house that transcends the congressional mission. yes, it is important for them to create a record, and it is incredibly important for them to evaluate what legislation they might need to do to prevent a redo of january 6th. but, ultimately, their role in history here might be creating a record that can be used by people in the justice department to begin to work on this top tier of responsibility at doj. whether that's bringing charges around the insurrection, of course, we talked repeatedly about potential charges, creating sort of a setting in which this could occur and potential first amendment defenses. as the laundry gets aired over in the house side, i think, ultimately, it makes more compelling case for doj to act. >> all right.

moving on now. house republican leadership is reportedly preparing an attempt to strip committee assignments from 13 gop lawmakers who voted for the bipartisan infrastructure bill. punchbowl news reports many house republicans were angry the group voted to help democrats pass the package. the victory for biden could be a valuable campaign tool during the midterms. one lawmaker that republicans are targeting is congressman of new york, the ranking member of the homeland security committee. his vote on infrastructure is not the first time he's upset rank and file republicans. he also voted to impeach former president trump and supported a criminal condemn referral for steve bannon. congressman was the gop lawmaker who agreed to a bipartisan january 6th committee before it was denied by minority leader kevin mccarthy.

several supporters of former president trump criticized the lawmakers who voted for infrastructure. congresswoman marjorie taylor greene tweeted the names of members who voted for the bill. she later tweeted their phone numbers as well. congressman fred upton of michigan received threatening voicemails after his vote and pointed to greene's tweet as a catalyst. >> i have a colleague, as you know, that put out the phone numbers of the 13 of us that voted that way. be glad to defend that vote. we've been working really since last spring on a bipartisan bill. i'm concerned about my staff. they're taking these calls. >> yeah. >> there are threats to them. these are very disturbing adult language, to say the least, that truly is frightening. >> it is very disturbing. >> awful. >> this is a critical moment. first of all, an idiotic tweet saying that something was a communist takeover, an infrastructure bill that is

bipartisan, that mitch mcconnell is running around bragging about and other republicans are running around bragging about. that's communist? it's crazy. you know, in the wide world of news this morning, interesting -- well, not interesting, very just a challenging part of it, there is a madness and peril here beyond the normal freak show that american politics has become. these threats are being inspired in part by upton's own house colleagues. it's one thing for president trump and other critics of the bill to lie about what is in that measure. lies every bit as false as the ones about the 2020 election being stolen. it is another thing, in some ways just the same, for republicans to say it was wrong to vote the way the 13 did because it gave president biden a political win. can you imagine going on the national town square as republicans and leaders in red america have done, saying, in

effect, that members of congress should always vote against what they believe to be in the interest of their constituents and the nation just to deny a president a win. jim vandehei, my god, it's sad. first of all, this is a bipartisan piece of legislation. it's a piece of legislation that the minority leader, the republican mitch mcconnell, the senate side, has supported, that other republicans have supported. republicans in the house have supported. it's for roads. it's for bridges. it's for airports. it's for broadband. kevin mccarthy's republican party has gotten to a point now in the house of representatives where they caucus is putting out memes about killing other members of congress and getting

threas because people are voting for what is in the best interest of their constituents. >> yeah, and to understand how insane and nutty this is, you have to sort of look at congress over the last 20 years. yes, people used to demand party loyalty. if someone is routinely not on the team, there could be punishment. people have been kicked off committees before. this is absurd, right? you're talking about a bill that passed the senate with republicans, as you said, that mitch mcconnell supports, that, by the way, even republican members in the house, their people are going to benefit from it, right? a lot of the money is spread out, goes to rural america, goes to broadband, does other things. to do this after they did what they did to liz cheney is something we haven't seen before. the idea that it is thought police. you either have to be with us or get the hell out of the party. that's weird. and, by the way, it's dangerous. this idea that liz cheney says, "oh, i think that something that

happened happened," "get out of here." here's a bill i support, "get out of here." or i get threats. there's this notion now, this war-like dimension of politics, particularly among republicans in the house, those that are aligned with trump. this us against them that permeates everything. we've always had us versus them, but this idea that instantly you should be rejected or threatened, threatenedbecause you voted for a bill that will move money to your constituents, it is a new level of insanity. it's just going to narrow what republicans can appeal to, especially in the house. you're seeing a pretty big break now between the house and the senate, where mitch mcconnell obviously doesn't like trump, still does what he wants this -- him to do, but still does it his way. it is, yes, sir, this is what

you want. trumpers want this, this is what you get. even when he doesn't think it is the right thing to do. this is a dangerous precedent. people say, "this is just politics as usual." it's not. >> it's not just politics as usual, willie. this will be a long-term impact on the republican party. yes, they did well in virginia. glenn youngkin did well. and, yes, they're structurally set up to win in '22. we'll see if that actually happens in the house. but in the senate, republicans should take over the senate. that's getting harder by the day because of the lunatics in arizona, the lunatics in georgia, the lunatics that donald trump is supporting for statewide races there that are going to drive those suburban voters, which were driven to glenn youngkin in virginia, going to drive them back to democrats. because it is so absolutely crazy. how did we see this play out

yesterday? a popular republican governor in new hampshire who republicans expected to challenge, chris just said, "forget this." they asked why. he goes, "well, i can get things done here, or i can go down to the chaos in washington, d.c., where everything is a nasty, partisan fight, and go from 100 miles an hour to being stuck in the mud. no, thank you." he didn't even notify republican leadership, just as sort of the final poke, to say, "i want nothing to do with what you people are doing in washington, d.c." this has impact on the republican party, on republican candidates, on republican recruitment. you would expect kevin mccarthy to be a little smarter and to send a message out to potential candidates, that they can be effective businesspeople in their communities.

they can be effective community leaders, church leaders, you know, business leaders. and come to washington, d.c., without the fear of being called a communist and having threats leveled against them if they vote to provide new roads in their districts. they won't do it. this will be devastating for the party. >> yeah. imagine being a normal, competent person who serves the government from outside of washington, looking at what's happening in washington, and actually wanting to participate in that. no, thanks, say a lot of good people. republicans disappointed by that news out of new hampshire. maggie hassen breathing a sigh of relief. liz cheney was in new hampshire, continuing her criticism of president trump. she's one person who is not stepping away from this fight. jim is absolutely right. it's become effectively a rule among republicans right now. you step out of line, we're going to strip you of committee assignments. kevin mccarthy threatened that for any republican who joined the select committee to look into january 6th, we'll strip

you of committee assignments if you dare step out of line, if you dare help democrats in any way. joe mentioned senate minority leader mitch mcconnell calling the infrastructure bill a godsend for his state of kentucky. the american society of civil engineers rated the state's infrastructure a c-minus. while touring an indoor farming facility monday, mcconnell told local media this. quote, i'm surprised we even got a c. we have a lot of infrastructure needs, in rural areas and with big bridges. it is a godsend for kentucky. mcconnell is one of the 19 republican senators who voted for the bill in august. jonathan lemire, we have to remind people, 19 republicans voted for this piece of legislation. 13 voted in the house. now, they've been effectively blacklisted by leadership in the party over on the house side. >> yeah. there's so many twists and turns in the process to get that bipartisan bill through the house. we sort of forgot. all the republican energy it had

behind it in august, including from leader mcconnell. certainly, this is -- trump's grip on the party has only tightened since leaving office. it's become a litmus test among republicans, as to whether you believe joe biden was legitimately elected. and so many republicans are parroting the big lie, suggesting that biden was not, trump should be president, and are pledging their allegiance to the former president, who they hope will run again. it'll be interesting to see how this plays out in the house. we had jake sherman on in the last hour on "way to jntoo earl" he says leadership may want to tamp this down. there is an uprising in the house, marjorie taylor greene and others, who are upset that any republican would dare give joe biden a win. it depends on the appetite for that fight. does mccarthy want to move past this one rather than, say, january 6th, which is polarizing

for the whole party. some republicans think infrastructure is a good thing is and they voted for this deal. might have been mcconnell giving cover yesterday for the republicans who stepped out in favor of it, saying, "well, i did so as well," reminding people of the vote and what good it'll do for the people of kentucky. certainly, there are some republicans who feel like they're not interested in governing. they're not interested in legislating. they don't want to ever hand biden and democrats a win, putting politics first. >> yeah. we need to go to break. jim, i want to go back to you on this point because it is so important. trump plays the short game. he's always played the short game. now that he's out, you have kevin mccarthy playing the short game and other republicans playing the short game. you do see a split between the republican senate and the republican house in some ways, but you look at the republican house and you really do, there

is going to be a problem with long-term candidate recruitment, unless you just get lunatics to represent gerrymandered districts and just blindly follow. you'll lose -- just like democrats have lost -- or republicans have lost the suburbs of dallas, lost the suburbs of atlanta in key races over the past two or three cycles, you start losing that, and also, i'm starting to hear more and more from my friends in the republican fundraising community, the people that actually fund campaigns. i was so surprised by what happened after the election, that, basically, every business leader, every ceo in, well, places like phoenix, told the arizona republican party, "stop what you're doing. this is disturbing. stop talking about rigged elections. we're not going to support a party that does that."

you have the republicans doing these short-sighted things, calling people communists and leveling death threats against others, having memes about killing other members of congress. this drives off good candidates in the future. this drives off, of course, suburban voters. and this drives off -- i know for them, most importantly -- a lot of money. >> well, think about how dumb the timing is. you just won virginia. you have almost every publication writing about how democrats are on the ropes. you have a template from youngkin on how to win. it wasn't to tick people off committees if they do something offensive. it is, how do you try to broaden your appeal, not offend trump, not embrace trump, but try to move beyond trump quietly. they have a template. look at the polls. joe biden's favorably ratings

are way down. look at the generic polls in who you want to vote for next time around. a lot look pretty good for republicans. the environment, given history, how republicans do in mid-year elections, they should be looking at, how do you grow this party? why are you beating up your own people when you, and now you have some people in the media, helping you beat up on the other side? it's stupid. tactically, it is a stupid strategy. and i think republicans -- >> and -- >> -- and mccarthy would like to figure out how can they prodden -- broaden that. i don't think they can. they have big members who have big followings on social media and follow the tactics. they want the small dollar donors. >> jim vandehei, thank you very much. joyce vance, final thoughts, just hearing that sort of political description of what's going on from jim vandehei. you know, how does

accountability play into this? sometimes i feel like some of these trump republicans love what most would consider to be very bad news. >> well, to jim's point, there is an awful lot of tolerance inside of the republican party for behavior that i think people outside of the beltway look at and really scratch their heads and wonder why this is tolerated by the political parties and by the legal system. so in terms of the integrity of our system, in terms of people's confidence in government, there will have to be accountability. the republican party could make a good start at it, not by removing members of congress who voted for a bipartisan infrastructure bill, but, rather, by disciplining some of their members who displayed violent tendencies toward other members. also, though, accountability will need to ultimately come in the form of the work of the january 6th committee. finding out what the truth is is

powerful. we've lived through the era of alternate facts. now, it's time to come home and learn the truth, learn about people who thought it was worth interfering with a smooth transfer of power, to retain power for themselves. that's the work that we have ahead of us. it's sort of the ugly sausage making work of democracy, but it has to be done if we're going to strengthen our institutions. >> joyce vance, thank you very much. we'll be reading your piece for msnbc.com about steve bannon. ahead on "morning joe," the latest from two major court cases. the trial for the killing of ahmaud arbery in georgia. and out of wisconsin, prosecutors in the kyle rittenhouse trial have rested their case. plus, transportation secretary pete buttigieg will join the conversation as president biden gears up to promote the bipartisan infrastructure deal in baltimore today. first, let's go to bill

karins with a check on the forecast. a big congrats on running the marathon. >> bill's numbers, your numbers just keep getting better every year. >> very good. >> i've come a long ways since five years ago when the guy walking his golden retriever passed me. [ laughter ] >> and that's a true story, by the way. that was five years ago. i was 30 pounds heavier. i went for a 2-mile run, and i died on the way pack. it can be done, but it takes time and effort. it's not for everyone. so let's get to the forecast. we are watching another warm, beautiful day in the eastern half of the country. it'll come to an end with our coast-to-coast storm. this storm will bring rain, severe weather to the plains, snow to the northern plains, and eventually the rain will make it to the east coast. it won't be a huge storm. it won't cause a lot of damage. it'll briefly bring travel concerns thursday to the ohio valley. the northeast on friday morning. then it will be all gone by friday night. for today, dallas to oklahoma city, watch out.

severe weather possible late tonight. yes, a snow forecast for our friends in minnesota, wisconsin, northern iowa. overall, the trend is continuing to be a very warm november. enjoy lunch outdoors today from atlanta to tampa to d.c. to virginia all the way up to the northeast. what a beautiful november afternoon it is going to be. very similar to what you experienced yesterday. enjoy it. you're watching "morning joe." there is the big apple at sunrise. we'll be right back. i've lost count of how many asthma attacks i've had. but my nunormal with nucala?

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the prosecution has rested its case in the kyle rittenhouse trial, but not before attorneys

showed new video of the shooting. the defense now takes center stage in kenosha, wisconsin. nbc news correspondent gabe gutierrez has the report. >> reporter: this new high-definition drone video, zoomed in and slowed down by a forensic imaging specialist, shows kyle rittenhouse shooting josephrosenbaum at close range. >> he died from multiple gunshot wounds. >> reporter: jurors saw a demonstration of rittenhouse's ar-15 style rifle. the now 18-year-old killed two men and wounded a third during a night of unrest following the police shooting of jacob blake in august of 2020. prosecutors have tried to portray rittenhouse as an aggressor who was looking for trouble. at times, especially during cross-examination, the witnesses bolstered rittenhouse's claim of self-defense. >> it wasn't until you pointed your gun at him, advanced on

him, with your gun, not hands down, pointed at him, that he fired, right? >> correct. >> reporter: defense called as their first witness a man who went to the protest at the request of the owners of a car dealership to protect the building. he says he saw rittenhouse after the shootings. >> he repeats, "i just shot someone." over and over. i believe at some point, he did say he had to shoot someone. >> all right. nbc's gabe gutierrez with that report. the forensic pathologist also testified yesterday that one of the men fatally shot by rittenhouse was in a, quote, horizontal position, suggesting the victim wasn't a threat when he was gunned down. joining us now, msnbc legal analyst, ms. weinstein, who worked as a federal prosecutor in the obama justice department, and as general counsel at the brooklyn da's office.

i guess where to begin? what are your primary takeaways from watching this trial so far, in terms of the direction that the defense has taken? >> well, the defense has taken the direction that they said they would. you know, the basic facts of this trial were never in dispute. the shootings are caught on tape, and the question is whether those shootings were crimes. whether the people who died were murdered. that all turns on whether kyle rittenhouse's actions were justified under wisconsin state law. so now we really are getting to the heart of the case, which is the claim about self-defense. >> right. >> and, you know, it is interesting -- go ahead. >> well, that's exactly where i was going to go with my next question. it appears to be an effective claim when you have the, you know, survivor of the three who

were shot, i mean, that is one piece of the trial we're showing on television. clearly, there's much more context to explain, but they seem to be headed in that direction in a big way and have evidence to back it up. >> indeed. he's got some good facts on his side. we have the survivor who said that he did point his gun at rittenhouse, and there is some evidence that one of the deceased, rosenbaum ran toward him. rittenhouse is going to say he was running toward his gun, and they'll argue about that. wisconsin has a standard that is quite favorable to rittenhouse. it says that if somebody reasonably believed that they were in danger, of imminent harm, such that it was necessary to use deadly force, then the deadly force is justified. and so he'll have to make the case that his belief was sincere that he was in danger, and that was a reasonable belief.

interestingly, the very same standard exists in georgia law, where the prosecution is moving a little bit more slowly, but also arriving in the ahmaud arbery case, i think, at the moment where the defendants are going to make the same claim. we were threatened. we reasonably believed we were threatened, and so we had to shoot. >> tali, we'll talk about the arbery case in just a second. they have a more difficult case to make, that they were acting in self-defense. they were pursuing him as he jogged. but in the case of kyle rittenhouse, the defense said he was acting in self-defense. guy comes at him with a gun, and he was defending his own life. didn't know what the guy's intentions were. then as you point out, that witness said, "yes, i did unholster my concealed weapon. i had it in my hand when i confronted kyle rittenhouse." if you're the prosecutor sitting and listening to that testimony, does your case start to fall apart a little bit because of what he just said? >> well, first of all, he's

charged separately for each of the people that he shot at. >> right. >> so some of those cases may be stronger than others. but i do think that the prosecution has some real challenges here. because another thing about wisconsin law is that once a defendant has made a plausible claim, has set the table on self-defense, it is actually the prosecution's burden to disprove that it was self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. and so i do think that they are in a challenging spot. this is really -- it's a test, a stress test of whether these laws that justify taking really violent action when you feel threatened are supposed to work in this way. >> well, i mean, and in this case, you have someone with an ar-15 feeling like he is justified to use an ar-15 against somebody who is unarmed.

and in the case of rosenbaum, an unarmed man who is, quote, perpendicular -- wait, no. not perpendicular. let's see. yeah, he was falling or perpendicular. >> horizontal, right. >> horizontal, not perpendicular. he was horizontal when the fatal shots were fired. >> indeed. that is the worst fact, i think, for rittenhouse. because that's just a fancy way of saying that he was on his back when the fatal shot, the fourth shot, was fired. you know, look, justification, it's not uncommon, especially if you are caught on tape shooting somebody, it's an argument you're going to make, that the shooting was justified. i had to do it. i've seen many cases, you know, particularly involving police officers who shoot civilians unarmed, when if it does look like the person was shot in the

back, that really undercuts the idea that you just had to do it. you just had to use deadly force. >> all right. tali, now to the trial of the three white men accused of killing ahmaud arbery. the defendants say they were attempting to conduct a citizens arrest. but prosecutors are looking to pick apart that claim. the glen county georgia police officer who responded to the scene testified that greg mcmichael, one of the three men accused in the shooting, never said he was trying to make a citizens arrest at the scene. the officer also told jurors he interviewed mcmichael at the scene of the shooting, and he told the officer he believed arbery was responsible for break-ins in the neighborhood and got his own weapon before pursuing him because he didn't know if arbery was armed. "i don't take any chances," mcmichael said, according to a transcript of the officer's body camera video. asked if arbery had a gun,

mcmichael said, "no, i don't know. i mean, i couldn't tell if it's one on him or not." the case drew national attention last year after cell phone video emerged showing the three white defendants, greg mcmichael and his son travis, and their neighbor, william bryan, chasing arbery, a black man, as he jogged down a residential street, before one of them shot him with a shotgun. tali, what are your takeaways from this case in terms of where justice may lie? >> well, here we are again, a shooting on video of an unarmed person in a racially charged atmosphere, and, again, it is turning on this claim of self-defense. you know, this question of the citizens arrest is really the context that the defendants want to establish there. that would not justify the shooting, but they're trying to build up to the idea that they

had a duty to protect themselves. this is now a discredited and now defunked, as you know, georgia statute that, at the time, said that if you had a reasonable belief that somebody committed a felony and there were no police around, then you as a citizen could go ahead and arrest them. they are making now this claim after the fact that that's what they were doing. and, as i said, i think they're using that to lay the groundwork to say, "well, we had a duty to protect ourselves." kind of similar to what we heard in the rittenhouse trial. we had a duty to protect these streets. this idea of citizens enforcing the law and being the protecters on their own with guns in their hands, of course. >> we'll be following this, tali. thank you so much for being on with us this morning. coming up, pfizer asks the fda to expand the use of covid booster shots, while many

welcome the opportunity for an extra dose. the question remains, should the vaccine be mandated? sam stein joins us with new polling. plus, the new report from the texas health department, underscoring the risk of infection and death for the unvaccinated. "morning joe" is back in a moment. the best things america makes are the things america makes out here. the history she writes in her clear blue skies. the legends she births on hometown fields. and the future she promises. when we made grand wagoneer, proudly assembled in america, we knew no object would ever rank with the best things in this country. but we believed we could make something worthy of their spirit.

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52 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." pfizer is officially asking the fda for emergency use authorization for its covid-19

booster shot for all adults. the drug maker's latest request cites results from a phase 3 clinical trial with more than 10,000 participants, which found the third dose was safe and effective. meanwhile, a new report from the texas health department shows the majority of texans who have died from covid-19 since the beginning of the year were not vaccinated. researchers examined nearly 29,000 covid-linked deaths from january to october of this year. of those deaths, more than 85% were people who were not vaccinated. as the "washington post" reports, the figures highlight just how much more at-risk the unvaccinated population has been this year in all age groups. the state's unvaccinated were 40 times more likely to die than fully vaccinated people. >> you know, willie, that's the real tragedy of this. and i'm sure so many of us know people, have friends, family members who have been through

this. i know i have friends who have thought they were going to die, were in the hospital, weren't vaccinated, and they just talk about the extraordinary suffering that they go through. your heart just aches for them. >> for some, regret. >> yeah, so many regrets too. we just hope that for everybody, that they can do it, that they get the vaccination for their own good, so they don't have to go through that suffering. it's such a tragedy. >> it is. and there is just no great mystery to it. there never has been. the people who are vaccinated are much, much, much less likely to get sick. they're much, much, much less likely, obviously, to be put in the hospital. even people who have been vaccinated, we've heard of these cases, who get covid -- i know we know a few of them or many of them -- they just don't have the same effects. they feel sluggish for a couple days, and they bounce right back. let's bring into the conversation founding director of the boston university center

for emering infectious diseases policy and research, dr. bhadelia. and white house editor for "politico," sam stein. morning to you both. sam, let me start with you and "politico's" poll showing strong support for mandates has dropped. 35% of voters strongly support requiring all employers with 100 or more employees to mandate covid-19 vaccinations or weekly testing. that represents a drop, including a nine-point drop for democrats since september. overall, more than half of american voters support the mandates. sam, what do you read into that number? >> well, i mean, this is what happens when you have a sustained political and media campaign against mandates, right? if you tune into fox news on the nightly programming, you will see the elevation of people who are defiant of mandates. you'll see the spotlighting of

government officials who are introducing legislation, saying mandates are an unconstitutional breach. you'll see the elevation of stories about the legal chann -- challenges to the mandates. the american people picks up on that. you've seen drops of support across the board. not significant but steady drops in support across the board, in favor of mandates. still, if you check down the list, support for mandates for big business, supports for mandates for contractors, for health care workers, all in the majority, 55%. where you see the opposition mainly is on the republican side, though, if you look at just the republicans. right there. totals, you know, anywhere between 65% to 67% of republicans opposing mandates for companies with 100 employees or more. contractors and health care workers. in our polarized, partisan times, this is just another thing to throw into that stew.

>> you know, doctor, these polls are important, just to get a pulse on where the american public is. but as far as policymakers go, it should be largely irrelevant, especially since the majority of americans do support these vaccine mandates. you can look at the poll, 75% of americans wanted us to go to iraq the first time. 75% of americans wanted us to get out of afghanistan. policymakers make decisions based on what is best for the country. the end of the day, this isn't even a close call, is it, as far as what policymakers need to do to help us get beyond covid? >> yeah, it is not even a close call in terms of what we all need to do to get to the other side of this. the only thing that's keeping us is getting ourselves and the rest of the world vaccinated, to getting to a point where we are no longer in the moment of prolonged crisis.

in a world where the covid-19 vaccines hadn't been so politicized, maybe you would have had more uptick and may not have needed mandates. that's not the world we live in. we're in a once in a century pandemic. 60 million people unvaccinated going into the winter with holiday travels, with colder weather. that is our vulnerable. if we look to europe and other countries that are starting to see increased cases, the countries that have done the best have higher rates of vaccination where they've decoupled cases from hospitalizations and deaths. that's what we need. our vulnerability here are the communities that continue to not get vaccinated, partly because of the disinformation and misinformation that's out there. and it's so prevalent. kaiser had a survey that showed 8 out of 10 americans cannot tell you if a common covid-19 myth is accurate or not. >> that is stunning. at this point where we are, i

hope that we can get where we need to be to get this pandemic behind us. doctor, i want to point to your piece in the "washington post" about the united states losing ground against diseases that we've already defeated. does this have any connection with the mad rush to get a vaccine for covid? >> it is. mika, some we've talked about before, because the vaccine hen -- hesitancy was growing in this country, even before the pandemic. more people trying to get medical exemptions for routine childhood vaccinations. measles, for example, we've controlled it in 2000, and then the year before the covid-19 pandemic happened, we had over 1,200 cases in this country. all were happening in the setting of really aggressive anti-vax, you know, advocates, particular communities, decreasing population immunity

against the diseases. what's happening now is two-fold. one is the politicization around covid-19 vaccines themselves. it appears to erode support in childhood vaccinations, which is a scary thought. there was a ugov poll last week. among gop voters, there was a drop from 59% to 46% for routine childhood vaccination. you're seeing multiple states working on trying to increase ability of participants to get exemptions to routine childhood vaccinations. nebraska is working on a law. montana already passed one. all this is happening while, worldwide, we have disruption in trying to get kids vaccinated because of the pandemic. 23 million kids have not gotten their vaccines. we're walking into some dangerous waters with other infectious diseases which we thought we already defeated. >> all right. doctor, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. still ahead, a federal judge rejects former president trump's claim of executive privilege. ruling that presidents are not

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welcome back to "morning joe." it is wednesday, november 10th. sam stein and jonathan lemire are still with us. joining the conversation, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. and chief white house correspondent for "the new york times," peter baker is with us, as well. so a federal judge is rejecting former president donald trump's request to block the release of documents to the house select committee investigating the january 6th capitol insurrection. in denying a preliminary injunction, the judge said, quote, the public interest lies in permitting, not in joining, the combined will of the legislative and executive

branches, to study the events that led to and occurred on january 6th. she noted that president biden had already waived executive privilege. adding that the plaintiff does not acknowledge the deference owed to the incumbent president's judgment. quote, presidents are not kings. and plaintiff is not the president. the plaintiff being donald trump. select committee chair bennie thompson issued a statement that reads in part, this decision affirms the importance of the select committee's work to get answers for the american people, recommend changes to the law to strengthen our democracy, and help ensure that nothing like the attack of january 6th ever happens again. trump's attorneys immediately filed a notice to appeal. the national archives plans to turn the documents over to the committee by friday, barring an order from the appellate court.

>> peter, there is a buzz to the quote, presidents are not kings, and plaintiff is not president. while it reads good on paper, the impact of that actually is quite significant. even when nixon was president, he wasn't allowed to block access to documents if the court believed he may have been covering up a potential crime. it seems that the president is on even more tenuous ground today legally. tell us your take on it. >> yeah, i think that's exactly right. in fact, nixon, by the way, tried after leaving office to block a similar kind of release of documents. there is a precedent for former presidents having, you know, an interest in executive privilege claims, but it is not something that can't be overcome by a claim like the congress here, which has an interest in looking at these documents. this judge was very clear that president trump's, you know, judgment on his own power doesn't hold here.

that when you have,combined int the executive and legislative branch, the administration and this congressional committee seeking the documents, to look at it, it overcomes concern for executive privilege. the point of executive privilege is to protect a president's governing, you know, conduct, right? there's nothing about the january 6th attack that was about trump's governing. his conversations, documents, the people who have been subpoenaed as witnesses, they were all about a campaign. that wasn't the people's business. that was a private, you know, business of a candidate who wanted to win an election and wanted to overturn an election in this case. that doesn't usually fall under executive privilege. what you've seen so far is the courts haven't gone along with president trump's interpretation. >> this ruling from a federal judge as the house select committee continues its work investigating the january 6th attack on the capitol, sending

out another round of subpoenas. ten more former trump administration officials, including some of the former president's closest advisers who were in the white house the day of the insurrection have been asked now to provide testimony and documents to the committee. former white house press secretary kayleigh mcenany, senior adviser to president trump steven miller, former white house personnel director john mcentee, and president trump's personal assistant nicholas luna are among those summoned to testify. sam stein n this wave of subpoenas we've seen the last week or so, you've almost captured everybody in president trump's close orbit anyway, including steve bannon, giuliani, john eastman, and others, reported to have been gathered at the willard hotel, plotting what happened on january 6th and plotting to overturn the outcome of the election. what is the level of concern in trump world, and how closely are they watching the justice department to see if these subpoenas have teeth? >> heavy concern in trump world,

obviously, as, you know, basically everyone under the umbrella gets a subpoena. but you look at it -- the flip side of it is you wonder if the committee is doing this because it is a spray tactic, hoping one of these people will be willing to turn over documents which will compel others to match those documents or try to produce documents that refute this person's documents. the real game, you know, comes down to whether or not the justice department is going to enforce, you know, the subpoenas. whether they will go after trump world figures like steve bannon, who already said they will not comply with the subpoena. you know, in those instances, you need the force of the law to force someone to comply. until that happens, you could end up in a situation where this thing just drag on and on and on in courts. that's not where the january 6th committee wants to be. they made an early and

affirmative declaration that they wanted to move fast. they felt the mueller investigation, for instance, was too slow, too deferential, and they needed to move with haste. we're already almost a year, not quite, almost a year past january 6th. we have not seen documentation produced from the committee. we've seen a lot of subpoenas. this thing is going to drag, obviously, into 2022. the question is, you know, will they have teeth behind them? will they have the force of the justice department behind them to move faster? >> jonathan lemire, the judge's decision is incredible to read. it is based largely on legal precedent. my question to you is, there has been no precedent in this country for the plaintiff, donald trump, who continues to wage war against the constitution, against the rule of law, against one political party in particular, the democrats, and anything they want to do. what is the larger impact, the political impact of this within

the white house and within the members of the democratic party who you speak to, in both the house and the senate? >> well, first of all, i think that we may not have seen the last of these subpoenas. while we have correctly noted that most in the trump orbit have received them, there are a few notable exceptions, including those with the last name trump. not just the former president, but ivanka trump and jared kushner, who worked in the white house. donald trump, jr., who was at the rally in the ellipse in the moments before the election. i was speaking to someone the other day who suggested that will be a real pressure point, if those members of the president's -- former president's immediate family receive subpoenas, to see what happens next and what his reaction might be. certainly, mike, democrats are looking into this and feel there is a larger obligation even than just the matter of these legal proceedings. because they fear -- not only do they need to figure out what happened on january 6th and get to the bottom of it in the most

exhaustive fashion as they can, but do what they can to prevent this from happening again. that's the larger takeaway here. with trump looming large over all the proceedings, making it clear he is going to be a visible force in '22 and '24, and likely a candidate again in 2024, he has shattered the discourse so much, the civility, the norms around politics, there is a threat of violence. democrats i've spoken to say that's what they're worried about. they head into the midterms next year, and certainly the presidential, just the venom in the country right now. i traveled with president biden to michigan a few weeks ago, and we were greeted with huge, opposing crowds. not that new. but the level of anger, vitriol, the slogan that i'm not going to say on air that's become code for a swear against joe biden being everywhere. there's anger. the pandemic seems to have only further driven us apart, and that colors all of us. we're bracing ourselves, the democrats i've spoken to, and we as citizens should be bracing us

for a very ugly couple years ahead. in state of the terms of the party as a whole, to your point, jonathan lemire, with the 2022 midterms less than one year away, here's a look at the state of the republican party across the country. we'll start in new hampshire. governor sununu surprised some in his party by announcing that he would not run for the u.s. senate next year. sununu faced a full-court press from national republicans who tried to recruit him to challenge democratic senator maggie hassan, in hopes of shifting the balance of power in the senate. in idaho, former president donald trump endorsed lieutenant governor to rival brad little. they've been locked in a power struggle in recent months. "politico" reports on several occasions when little has left the state,cgeachin used her

authority on executive orders, often on pandemic-related mandates which she tried to ban. little has rescinded those orders. in pennsylvania, u.s. senate candidate parnell, who trump endorsed, denied his estranged wife's accusations of abuse at a custody hearing this week. parnell denied her allegations as, quote, complete fabrications. and down in georgia, former football star herschel walker is seen as a frontrunner thanks to trump's endorsement. even though the "associated press" citing court reports and documents reported accusations that walker threatened to kill his ex-wife. walker has denied the accusations in the past. and in arizona, former president trump is set to attend a fundraiser with arizona candidate blake masters. masters, the chief operating officer -- >> let's not show the ad.

>> okay. >> it says the election is a lie. >> yeah. >> it says the election is still a lie. these are people -- >> they're running on trump's lies. >> if you look, peter baker, donald trump is supporting extreme candidates. in arizona, it is causing a problem not just in the senate race. it is causing a problem in the governor's race. you know, you have to believe in bizarre conspiracy theories. you know, rank and file republicans, certainly the business community is getting more concerned. the pennsylvania guy delivered a lecture on masculinity. talked about how women like masculine, tough men. it goes back to the caves because, of course, men had to go out and defend women, their little ladies, from dinosaurs. >> ah! >> from dinosaurs. we don't want to match up those

eras. somebody probably needs to tell him they're a few years apart. but this is a real headache for mitch mcconnell, who wants to be majority leader, but who sees one crazy candidate after another going to the front of the field, all because donald trump has this litmus test. believe my conspiracy theories or i won't support you. >> yeah, it is remarkable. you know, you don't see a former president who lost a re-election exert so much influenceparty. not just influence, but a campaign of retribution in some cases, like with liz cheney and others who have defied him, and a campaign basically to, you know, impose, as you say, a litmus test on a party and to make it about personal loyalty to him. if you're not loyal to him and his false claims, somehow, you're not a republican in his view. he's managed to make that stick in a lot of cases. that's why republicans were excited about glenn youngkin.

that was an example in the opposite direction. youngkin didn't defer to trump in terms of the view of the 2020 election and said joe biden was legitimately elected. that was the path forward for a lot of republicans. to see this, i think, continuing influence by the former president is something that concerns mitch mcconnell a lot. it concerns a lot of party officials who worry this internal strife is going to doom a party that otherwise has a really good chance of winning next year. this is their time. history is on their side. the polls seem to be on their side. biden's troubles would seem to be contributing to their success. they're torn apart over this lie about last year's election. the white house yesterday announced a new action plan to tackle the ongoing supply chain issue that aims to expand the capacity of ports around the

country and help get things moving again. nbc news correspondent sam brock has the details. >> reporter: as our nation's ports slowly grind under the weight of supply chain challenges, the race is on to get things moving in time for the holidays. >> i don't have a strong holiday season, you know, that can spell trouble. >> reporter: kim mitchell owns boing toy store in boston. she stockpiled inventory in july but has to compete for a shrinking supply of goods with major corporations. >> they're making the choice between selling 24 to me or 2,400 to somebody else. >> reporter: even as ports across the country do record volume, there's still a bottleneck brought on by production strains, a shortage of warehouse workers, and some 80,000 truck drivers. >> it's the worst that i have ever seen. >> reporter: the biden administration announcing steps tuesday to fast-track $17 billion earmarked for ports in the infrastructure bill before it is even signed into law.

some of the highlights include modernizing ports and marine highways and deepening harbors for larger cargo ships. the administration letting ports redirect grant money saved from other projects to supply chain issues. in savannah, georgia, that means converting five inland facilities into pop-up container yards where cargo can be stored and loaded onto trucks. still, many of the fixes will take years. >> as we go forward, other presidents will be happy with how well the supply chains will work because of the work done today. >> reporter: some of the worst congestion is in california. staff producing at record levels will greatly benefit from fresh money for information sharing. >> being able to see further in this supply chain, to understand how much cargo is coming, what staffing we need and equipment on the ground. >> reporter: as for the 78 ships anchored off l.a.'s port, miami's mayor has a message. >> we are ready and open for

business. >> reporter: some ports like miami's has available capacity, but these days it is the exception, not the rule. >> mike barnicle, we have a dysfunctional economy right now. it has been dysfunctional, obviously, since the start of covid. we had supply chain problems, obviously, throughout 2020. terrible supply chain problems, empty shelves. we still do. we have the supply chain problems. we have the empty shelves. you've have a lot of kids that are not going to get certain presents for christmas, which i know may not seem like a huge deal for some people watching. it is a huge deal for parents. i guarantee you that. we have a worker shortage. more open jobs now than ever before. yesterday. we sat on the runway. actually, we sat at the gate at laguardia for over two hours because they didn't have enough workers to take fuel trucks

around and fuel up the planes. >> yeah. >> we're sitting at the gate for two hours, which means there are other planes that are coming in trying to get to the gate. they're sitting on the runway for two hours. >> it was more than two hours. >> okay. it was more than two hours. but you just sit there. this is not a functioning, i will say it, this is not a functioning capitalist society, where you can't hire people to drive fuel trucks and fuel planes so they can leave on time and let other planes get to the gate. it's a real problem here. >> joe, that's the bigbigamis-- big mystery. the economy is doing well at one level. the economy is healthy and promising in terms of the next year or so. but the fact you can't find people to drive a truck, that you can't find people to deliver goods to market, the fact you can't find people to drive skoog school buses in various cities

across the country is a deepening and real mystery. people have to get back to work. i don't know what they're doing. i don't know why that i turning down these jobs. >> mike, is it a mystery? >> they're good jobs. >> i'm sorry. is it really a mystery? we've pumped $7 trillion into the economy over the past year and a half. >> i know but -- >> we're up in maine. we go to working class neighborhood. we go into a diner. they can only be open for six hours a day. they're closed on weekends despite the fact that they have two months to make their money all year. i asked the family that runs the place, "why are you only open for six hours a day?" he said, "nobody will come work." >> right. >> they're taking the summer off. come on, mike. why is that happening? >> those federal paychecks ended in september. i mean, eventually, people are going to run out of money that they saved. people have an enormous amount of savings they never had before because of the federal government's sustaining them

during the covid thing, which was a good thing. but now, we've got to get america back to work. >> we do. willie, the thing is, people don't want to talk about this, i'll talk about this. you don't have to talk about it, willie. people go, "well, we really don't know why people aren't getting back to work." maybe it's covid. maybe it's babies. then there will be a story that will say, "john decides he doesn't want to work at such a job. he doesn't like the job. he's going to just sit around and wait for a better job to come along." i can tell you when i got out of college, i didn't sit around going, "well, gee, i wonder, i don't really feel like working for five years. i'm going to sit around until i get fulfilled." i'm sorry. you can't run an economy that way. i didn't have the luxury of sitting around and waiting for jobs to come open. i'm not a trust fund baby. i know a lot of people out there aren't trust fund babies. when they hear people talking about, "i don't feel like working, i'm not going to work," there is something wrong with

that economy. and if people are offended hearing that, talk to voters. talk to voters who are going to be voting in the off-year election next year. ask them if they think that's a normal way for an economy to run. it is not. >> to your point, it is persistent since the checks ran out, right? that was the defense. well, people aren't working -- or the explanation was because they're getting a check from the government. you still go into any restaurant, half the dining room is closed. we don't have the staff to run the place. gas station has one guy working inside. there is a help wanted sign everywhere you turn. so, clearly, there's something transformational going on in the society. it's unclear how long we can sustain this. let's bring in transportation secretary pete buttigieg. he is live from the climate summit in glasgow, scotland. mr. secretary, good to have you on. before we talk about solutions to this supply chain crisis, let's just have you, if you can, explain what exactly is going on

for people watching this show. why isn't there cars at the car dealership? why aren't there groceries on the shelves? what is going on exactly? how do you put it into the most basic terms for people? >> so i would think of it in terms of supply and demand. actually, it is three things, supply, demand, and covid. when it comes to demand, demand is off the charts. retail federation is forecasting an all-time record high in holiday sales this year. now, on one level, that reflects good news. americans have the income to be buying more things. but that's sitting up against the limitations of our supply. now, let me be clear, in many areas, there's more supply too, it's just not enough to keep up. for example, our ports, where we're seeing a lot of these issues of congestion, they're not moving less goods, they're moving more than they ever have. it's still not enough, especially as they work to move it across outdated infrastructure. that's why the infrastructure bill is so important. third point, the pandemic, right? we've had supply chain issues

since the beginning of the pandemic. last year, we saw so many of these images of empty shelves, fast food chains warning they'd run out of meat. the pandemic continues to poke holes in our ability to get goods to where they need to go. that's why at the end of the day, the only way to resolve a pandemic-driven supply shortage is to end the pandemic. >> okay. so there's that on the supply. mr. secretary pete, what then is the explanation for the labor shortage? why are people not going back to work? why are we seeing, i mean, countless businesses without employees that want to come to work? >> yeah, look, this issue is real. talk to, you know, certainly any small business owner, and we're seeing it a lot in the transportation sector. for example, when you see those ships that are at anchor in the port, some of those issues actually might have to do with

the availability of truckers 1,000 miles inland. there are a lot of things contributing to this. one of them is child care, of course, which is why the president's build back better vision is going to be good for the labor market. also, some of these professions, frankly, need to be a better job. transportation and warehousing compensation in real terms, it is way down from where it was a generation ago. that helps to explain why with trucking, for example, at the biggest employers, the annual turnover rate, think about this, annual turnover rate for truck drivers is 90%. that's the sign of real issues with the quality of the job. we've got to work on that too. >> okay. so you've brought the explanation down to one job, trucking, and the quality of the life, quality of that job. but we have companies across america that are offering people $15, $20 an hour. they're offering health care for the first time in businesses where they have 17-year-olds doing the job because they can't get adults to come to work.

so, you know, before covid, before biden, there was a problem where child care and people still went to work. we are in a very different place right now, and i needexplanatio. is it the checks that many argue that keep americans from wanting to go back to work? what exactly do you mean when you say people want a better job? because right now, anybody in america can go and try to get a service, and there will be a company or a business that doesn't have someone working there to help them. >> so, you know, a lot of people did blame the checks. as we saw, when the checks ended, this issue continued. so we know that it goes deeper than that. i do think it has to do with some of these other concerns. yes, the child care issue is not new, but it is a greater crunch than ever, even compared to a year or two ago. which is why it is so important for us to support child care. again, i think the

underappreciated dimension of the build back better agenda, what i call part two of the big deal, part one being the transportation and infrastructure bill we just passed, part of that is it is going to ease the labor market pressures. economists have pointed to the same effect and how it could help with inflation. look, we're clearly going through deep transformations and what it means to be a worker and what it means to be a customer in this country. those transformations can end up in a very good place for american workers, but we have to get through this period by making it easier for people to be able to return to the workforce. >> but, secretary pete buttigieg, i still don't understand the problem that's happening right now. i mean, if you're telling me that build back better will bring people back to work because of much-needed and long-needed issues like child care and pre-k, that still doesn't explain why people aren't coming to work today. especially when companies are trying to raise their salaries

as much as possible. we have the prices of goods going up. it's more expensive to live. why aren't people coming back to work right now? why are we in this crisis where, whether it is sitting on a plane for four hours to wait for a fuel truck driver, or walking into a store that has no workers in it, or going to a gas station that doesn't have someone to pump the gas? >> again, i would not ignore the issue of child care. i would not ignore the issue of safety. some people still concerned about returning during the course of the pandemic. i would definitely point to the fact that we've just seen a huge expansion in the economy, especially over the course of the last year. when you add 5, 6 million jobs back to the economy in less than a year, it is going to take a while for that to settle out in the labor market. i think we're seeing some of those effects right now. but i also think there is a bigger, deeper reckoning going on in this country. you know, we went for a long time where i think a lot of people just assumed that working

for poverty wages was the only way out. now we're seeing better wages, even in jobs like fast food, not known for generosity in pay or benefits. i do think it'll have an effect. i don't think it'll have an effect overnight. >> mr. secretary, jonathan lemire, let's turn to the infrastructure bill. the president hasn't signed it into law, but we anticipate that in the coming days. let's talk about speed. let's talk about real-world impact. when will we see work on the tunnel improvements? when will we see work on amtrak, at ports in bullet mother where -- in baltimore where the president is going today? >> you saw a 90-day window, standing up for the ports funds that are here. we have grant programs that exist right now. i'm going through a stack of

applications this week for a $1 billion program that just turned into a multiple of its former size. so we already have the mechanisms to get those dollars out. communities have already put together their projects and will be able to accelerate them. i do want to make one thing clear. it is not 2009, where it is about getting the dollars on the ground instantly to fight massive unemployment. we have a different set of problems and solutions in this moment. this is about our long-term competitiveness too. some of these things go into the ground right away. this isn't about a stimulus to get us through one tough economic season. this is building the foundations of american competitiveness for the rest of the century. in addition to growing the programs we've already got, my department is getting to work on standing up new programs that didn't even exist to support things like the electric vehicle chargers and new forms of support for our ports and reconnecting communities that were divided in the past. so the emphasis is going to be on shovel-worthy projects.

some of which are ready to go immediately. there's a lot of need when it comes to tunnels and railways. some of which will take some time. that's okay. this is designed to be a bill not for a moment, not for a year, but for a generation. >> all right. secretary pete buttigieg, i hear your babies are both doing well. congratulations to both of you on the joyful news. thank you for being on the show this morning. peter baker and sam stein, thank you both as well for your reporting this morning. >> oh, can i ask peter a ask? >> sure you can. >> i'll ask sam, too. >> do it. >> i don't want sam to ever feel left out. >> little sammy. >> so, peter, do you think the white house recognizes the problem that we have? because i don't know if they've been slow to it or not, but, obviously, supply chain is a critical issue. people just not going back to

work. i mean, it's really like we have more job openings than we ever have in the history of this country. for every person unemployed, the ratio to an unemployed worker to a job is better than it's ever been. wherever we go, we talk to small business owners, restaurant owners, and they say the same thing, "i'm trying to pay 17-year-olds, like, $18 an hour and give them health care." i can't get them in here. gas stations, driving around this summer, you know, were paying $20 an hour for you to work inside the convenient store. you go inside, no takers. you know, does the white house -- what's the white house's plan to getting people back to work? >> yeah, i think they recognize this is a problem, obviously. nobody wants to talk about a christmas without presents. that's never good for a president or any other

politician. i think it's interesting here. we have two sort of theories to the case. this is the lingering effects of a pandemic that is, at some point, going to basically shake itself out, or we're in a transformational moment when we're rethinking, you know, society and, you know, the income disparity and the wage, you know, depression that we've seen now for a generation. is that going to finally, you know, reorder, in effect, in this moment? the other question we haven't heard, and i'd be interested in hearing experts talk about it because i don't know the answer, is how much integration is a factor. one reason the chambers of commerce across the country have favored immigration is to get people to do a lot of jobs that americans born here might not be as willing to do for wages that they might not be willing to work for. has the, you know, focus on immigration the last few years changed the dynamic in the labor market? i'm not sure of the answer there. i think president biden is aware, his team is aware of the

risks politically as well as economically. they do have an economy, as mike barnicle put it, that overall, in a lot of ways, looks pretty good. but if people feel in a tangible way that they can walk into stores without being helped, walk into stores without getting the christmas presents they need, that's a tactile kind of problem for an administration that's trying to get this country back in shape. >> well, and, also, sam stein, they can go into a car shop and get a broken car that they desperately need to make their commute to go to work every morning, whether they can get that fixed. whether they can get plumbing fixed inside their house. if there is a problem, you know, with their electricity, you know, you go down the list of things. i'm just not sure exactly when people became, you know -- people just said, "oh, i'm not going to work. i'm just not going to work." when did this -- because i've read all the stories in "the new york times," "oh, people are

rethinking their relationship with work." well, awesome. but at what point in the development of mankind did workers become philosopher kings, and they just are sitting there, thinking, rubbing their chins. will it pay the rent? i ask this question because this is the question that is having a real world impact on millions and millions of americans. they're looking around going, "wait a sec, why is this happening?" why can't we not only get things on shelves, why does it look like pictures from an old soviet union grocery store, and why isn't anybody working?" >> as a philosopher king myself, it is a great line of work. people should pursue it. i don't really have -- i think peter hit all the main points, right? there's a huge number of factors coming into play right now. you can point to any one of them to confirm your theory of the case. i will just add this. as a political matter, whether

they're acutely aware of this, it seems there is a conference call on easing the supply chain problems almost every week at this juncture. but you notice that some of their arguments are not resonating with the public. so, for instance, they point to the fact that they did this extended child tax credit that gave $300 -- up to $300 per child in each family over the course of every month as evidence that they're giving people capital to spend. they're getting through this difficult economic time, and that should counteract the downsides of inflation, of the increase in prices of gasoline and the fact that you can't get cars or bacon is super expensive. when you talk to voters, two things are evident. one is that they notice the price of groceries more than they notice money in their checking account on some occasions. they go to the store and say, huh, milk is more expensive than it was a year ago. bacon is more expensive than a year ago. my car is more expensive than it

was a year ago. oftentimes, they don't credit joe biden for the fact the child tax credit is in their bank account. we did a poll. under 40% of the public said they did not believe biden -- that only 40% of the public said they believe biden was responsible for that. so, you know, it is evident at this juncture, eight, nine months into his presidency, that biden has done a fair bit of good to get the economy more stable from its pandemic-era instability, but he hasn't done enough to convince voters that lives are demonstratively better than a year ago. politically, it is a dangerous proposition. >> he's not going to do it if people go into grocery stores, they go into other stores, and the shelves are empty and they don't people working or enough people working. or if you run a small business, a family business, if you're an entrepreneur, if you can't get your product out to the market

because of problems with the supply chain. >> yeah. >> that's going to be, mika, a lingering problem. one other thing, too, okay? again, i'm not saying this for any idealogical reasons. i'm only saying this because i love democracy. and i love those who are fighting to hold up western style democracy. i don't want those people that are fighting against illiberal forces and who are fighting to hold up western democracy, i don't want them to get routed in 2022. i don't want them to get routed in 2024. because i do, this is my belief. you don't have to believe it. but i believe american democracy is on the line. that requires those who support american democracy, those who are going to fight for american democracy, they have to is have policies that help enough americans who will vote for them so they can uphold western style

democracy. it is still the economy, stupid. so, mika, democrats really have to think long and hard about this next bill they're talking about spending. we have, what, $6 trillion that has been flooded into this economy over the past year. more money than we spend in adjusted dollars for world war ii and the marshall plan. if you're flooding the zone with $1.75 trillion, with inflation skyrocketing, you better pay for every cent of it. this is not me being the right-wing conservative that a lot of you think i am. this is me just saying, i don't want champions of western democracy to get routed in 2022. so you have to pay for every cent you spend moving forward, or inflation will continue to skyrocket. by the way, you know, i think you do it by going after billionaires. they're paying about 6% in

taxes. the richest 400 households. for some reason, the democratic tax bill does not do that. does not do that. don't raise income taxes on small business owners. right? go after the billionaires. you've got to pay for whatever you spend moving forward because inflation is hot. you dump another $1.75 trillion into the economy, you may not like joe manchin, i don't know, maybe you do, maybe you don't. he's our friend. but manchin is right, the economy is hot. we've dumped between trump and now joe biden, we've dumped $6 trillion, $7 trillion into the economy. now another $1.75 trillion plus the $1.2 trillion. inflation is going to -- and, by the way, for those of you who are too young to remember what inflation was like, right? there are a lot of us, mike barnicle and myself, actually, probably the only ones, that remember when inflation took off and paul volker had to take

interest rates up to 21%. can you imagine that? anything you borrow for your house, your car, for anything, 21% interest rates. we don't want to get there. democrats have got to figure all this out. >> yeah. >> they have to figure out the inflation part of it. they have to figure out the supply chain part of it. they have to figure out the rising gas rises. they've got to figure out rising prices at the grocery store. and if they don't, they're getting wiped out. let me just say, right now, politically, there is no issue more important than that. getting people back to work. getting goods back on the shelf. holding inflation in check. three things. you don't get those three things right, nothing else that you do over the next year, democrats, is going to mean a damn bit of -- make a damn bit of difference to voters as they go to vote in 2022. >> keeping in mind that republicans are making this very difficult.

every step of the way. >> you don't even have to say that. >> i know, but i think it is a good point. >> it is a given. >> even on covid, they literally don't want this country to get over to the other end -- >> that's fine. >> --over covid. it helps them politically somehow. >> voters -- >> it is sick, the impact the insurrectionist party is having on the process. >> but you don't -- >> i hear what you're saying. i'm just saying, republicans, insurrectionists, are doing everything they can to slow down this process of getting america back on its feet. so biden can hold that responsibility. >> did you feel you needed to say that? >> i did. >> do you feel better? >> i do, yeah. >> okay. our audience knows that. >> i know. i felt good saying it, and i know they want to hear it. >> i know if they've watched this show for the last five years, they know that's how i feel as well. >> i know. but sometimes it seems like if you just kick on the administration for this, some might think that you don't, you know, validate what else is going on. >> do i always have to add a footnote? i don't need help. thank you. >> i'm here for that.

>> okay. maybe i do need your help. all the time, sweetie. thank you for helping me, honey. i do appreciate that. >> call me honey? >> i'll tell you who else needs help, democrats. it's the economy, stupid. >> get mandates. >> get people back to work. get goods back on the shelves, right? and whip inflation now. as gerald ford said in 1975, whip inflation out. you don't pass a bill if it is not paid for. by the way, here you go, here you go. if you're a progressive and you don't like me talking about the economy, here you go. how you do that, make billionaires who pay zero in taxes, make them pay their fair share. why do billionaires get away with it? don't go to the small business and say, we're going to raise your income tax two more years. we already have this raging

disparity between people who pay taxes on income and people who make billionaires on capital, tax the capital. this stupid argument, please, just laugh at people and say, well, if they don't sell their billions and billions in stocks, why, that's not even realized capital. really? you make $1 billion during the pandemic just on investments, and you don't realize the capital? your bank account goes up $1 billion. you have $1 billion more in leverage. you have a billion more dollars to make deals with people. you have a billion more dollars credit with your banks. that's not realized capital? please, stop insulting us. tax the rich. tax the multi-national corporations. i define rich here as the billionaires. don't go after income. go after capital. tax them. pay for any of your programs. >> child care, pre-k. >> pay for those programs to your heart's desire, then you

can debate that in 2022. but don't throw more gasoline on the fire that is inflation. >> okay. still ahead on "morning joe," a frightening -- >> thank you for helping me, sweetheart. i appreciate it. >> i'm always here for you. >> i know you are. >> a frightening look into the deadly crowd surge that claimed eight lives as the astroworld music festival over the weekend. it happened there. nbc's morgan chesky joins us with new video from the tragedy in houston. a lot of questions as to how the concert was not stopped. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. k. ing probl. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection-site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your doctor about nucala. find your nunormal with nucala.

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we are learning disturbing, new details about the deadly crowd surge at a houston musical festival that killed eight people. joining us now from houston, nbc news correspondent morgan chesky. morgan, what more can you tell us this morning? >> reporter: willie, good morning. we're learning more about a communication breakdown between festival organizers and the

houston fire department. the chief admitting that while this concert was going on, there was no communication between his department and the festival organizers. we're also hearing from paramedics, sharing one story after another of how they tried to help people survive. >> astroworld tragedy. this emt detailing how he tried to save an unconscious girl caught in the crowd as a sea of other fans begged for help. >> i did my absolute best to provide the best care i could. >> reporter: the music so loud, he says, radio calls for backup went unheard. the chief of the houston fire department admitting to cnn a glaring lack of communication with concert organizers during the event. >> no, we didn't have on scene direct communication with organizers, no. >> reporter: concert organizers did not respond to nbc's request for comment. the fire chief telling savannah travis scott bears some responsibility.

>> do you believe the performer, travis scott, should have called an end to the concert once he saw what was taking place in front of the stage? >> absolutely. look, we all have a responsibility. >> reporter: now, five days later, some victims still fighting to stay alive like 9-year-old ezra, who fell into the crowd when his dad passed out. >> he's now in a medically induced coma with severe brain damage, severe kidney damage and severe liver damage fighting for his little life. >> reporter: dareus williams hired as event staff quit before the show began because he says he felt they were under trained. >> so i don't feel like safety was really taken into consideration for the staff nor the attendees of the festival. >> reporter: scott has had problems at his concerts before. at a concert in new york city kyle green says he was pushed from a third floor balcony during scott's show leaving him partially paralyzed. he sued alleging scott incited

mayhem and chaos through his conduct. in court papers scott has denied the allegations. that lawsuit is still ongoing. this morning sources close to travis scott tell nbc news that after performing on stage at astroworld on friday, scott went to drake's after party at a dave and busters and was unaware of the tragedy that happened at the stadium at the time. nbc news is tracking more than 30 lawsuits against scott and live nation, the festival organizer, and we're hearing about a petition that is picking up more signatures by the day asking that scott be removed from the lineup for the popular coachella festival set for april. willie? >> meanwhile, that 9-year-old boy ezra fighting for his life in a coma. morgan, thanks so much. let's turn now to wisconsin where the prosecution has rested in the kyle rittenhouse trial, but not before showing new high-definition drone video of the deadly confrontation during

last summer's social justice protest in kenosha, wisconsin. joining us from outside the courthouse nbc news correspondent gabe gutierrez. gabe, be good morning. >> reporter: willie, good morning. the defense now taking center stage trying to convince the jury that rittenhouse only shot three people, killing two of them -- this morning the trial that has sparked intense debate over racial justice protests, the second amendment and vigilanteism is entering day seven of testimony. the prosecution playing new high-definition drone video zoomed in and slowed down by a forensic imaging specialist showing joseph rosenbaum following rittenhouse and rittenhouse shooting him at close raining. >> mr. rosenbaum died from multiple gunshot wounds. >> reporter: this forensic pathologist testified the final

two shots were at a downward angle, that rosenbaum was falling forward but the defense says he was lunging as he tried to attack. rittenhouse grimaced as graphic autopsy photos of the wounds were shown in court. jurors also saw a demonstration of rittenhouse's ar-15 style rifle. the now 18-year-old killed two men and wounded a third during a night of unrest following last year's police shooting of jacob blake in kenosha. prosecutors have tried to portray rittenhouse as an aggressor who was looking for trouble. at times their own witnesses bolster rittenhouse's claim of self-defense. the man he shot in the bicep admitted during cross-examination. >> it wasn't until you pointed your gun at him, advanced on him with your gun pointed at him, that he fired, right? >> correct. >> reporter: the defense calling as its first witness a man who said he went to the demonstrations to protect a car dealership. he says he saw rittenhouse

shortly after the gunfire. >> he repeats, i just shot someone over and over, and i believe at some point he did say he had to shoot someone. >> reporter: the judge dismissed one of the seven charges, a curfew violation. during opening statements the defense indicated that the jury would hear from rittenhouse himself, but the timing of that testimony is still unclear, willie. >> nbc's gabe gutierrez in kenosha, wisconsin. gabe, thanks so much. mika? all right. up next, as ted cruz battles big bird, he also toys with the idea of texas seceding from the union. an update from the very serious senator just ahead. plus, a group of former national security officials sound the alarm on the ongoing efforts to destabilize american elections. that's ahead on "morning joe."

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♪♪ it is the top of the hour, and look at that pretty shot of new york city as the sun is up. it's brilliant. beautiful skies. welcome back to "morning joe." it's wednesday, november 10th. jonathan lemire, mike barnicle still with us. and the house investigation into the january 6th capitol attack is intensifying with lawmakers issuing 16 subpoenas in the last two days. and after a new legal decision late last night, the first batch of trump white house documents from the national archives is now set to be turned over to the house committee by friday. >> guess what, mika. >> what? >> there's nothing he can do about it. >> he's not king. >> he's not king. he's not even president. >> well that's a problem. >> this whole executive

privilege thing is not working for him, is it? >> white house correspondent peter alexander has the latest. >> reporter: overnight a major setback for former president trump over a legal battle examining his role in the january 6 insurrection. he had been trying to avoid handing over 700 pages of documents to the committee investigating the riot. a federal judge ruling against that request. the former president attempting to claim executive privilege, but the judge writes presidents are not kings and the plaintiff is not president, adding that president biden is not constitutionally obliged to honor his predecessors' executive privilege assertion. >> if someone is hollering this hard and this loud, then i am to assume that undoubtedly you have something to hide. >> reporter: it comes as the house committee is focusing on ten former officials including senior advisers, that the committee says have knowledge of mr. trump's actions leading up to and during the violent

capital attack. among the latest, steven miller, who in the weeks after the election, spread false information about the vote looking to invalidate joe biden's victory remaining defiant. >> you're not going to be showing up to testify for this so-called select committee, are you? >> i don't even have the documents. >> reporter: also subpoenaed for testimony and documents one of mr. trump's personal assistants in the oval office when the president spoke by phone. mr. trump slammed the committee members as, quote, politically ambitious hacks. the u.s. is confronting a domestic threat it's never faced before. >> a former president threatening to unravel the constitutional republic aided by

political leaders that made themselves willing hostages to this dangerous and irrational man. >> all right. that was nbc's peter alexander with that report. it's really something. >> she's so right, isn't she? >> she's so right, and thank god for her. why aren't there more who can state the obvious? this is not hard. >> it's not. you have her, you have adam kinzinger and you have a lot of republicans who are just keeping quiet. their goal to cover this up. and that's been the goal all along. they don't want to talk about january 6th because it reflects on how rotten the core of that party has become especially in the house where you have kevin mccarthy who supposedly yelled at the president on january the 6th but then backed down. no leadership whatsoever, mika. it really is extraordinary and it does go back to what you were saying last hour about the

republican party, certainly kevin mccarthy. nobody will speak truth to power still even after an insurrection against the united states government. >> absolutely. no. and this is why we're here. by the way, that was -- i think that was a great conversation we had. it was a good one. i really appreciated participating. >> i'm very grateful to you every day for keeping me in check and keeping me in line. >> yeah, no, it's actually important to look at everything that's leading up to where we are here today, and while it's frustrating that we're dealing with the matters at hand, the republicans have such a big hand in this especially when they don't want to even confront the issues facing our basics of democracy. it's very frustrating. >> did i say i'm very grateful? >> yes you did. i think it's great when we go at it.

>> people don't like it. >> i'm fine. >> they get really upset. >> i'm fine. willie, what's next? all this conversation, of course, about january 6th, is rooted in voting in this false claim the election was stolen. senate republicans last week blocked debate on voting rights legislation for the second time in as many weeks calling into question whether democrats will be able to pass the legislation without a change to the filibuster rule. now a group of former high-ranking national security officials published an open letter urging democrats do whatever is necessary to enact new measures to protect american democracy saying that is far more important than politics. joining us now one of the people who signed that letter, olivia troy, counterterrorism adviser to then vice president mike pence. olivia, it's great to have you on the show. let's talk about what you mean in that letter when you say do whatever is necessary. does that mean to blow through the filibuster to get this voting rights legislation

through? >> well, i think we're a group of former national security officials that have served in both republican and democratic administrations representing decades of service. and we're very concerned about what we're seeing here in terms of effort to subvert our election process and i think we're calling upon congress to do whatever it takes to secure election equipment, whatever you have to do going forward because we are very concerned about the trends we are seeing in terms of what's happening across the country. and threats across-the-board what this means as we approach the midterms next year. >> olivia, we talk about changes that are happening at the state level, people put in place.

if it weren't for georgia, that state could have gone another way. so what are you seeing that concerns you so much specifically? >> we are seeing efforts across states to set the groundwork when they don't like the will of the people and the way people voted and those who certify elections. there was a case i think about a former marine in nevada who worked for the secretary of state there who actually got threats to his family. they threatened, numerous calls saying they wished his children would be molested. they said they wanted him tab attacked. threats to his life. this is not one scenario.

this is happening across the country to people. we are concerned. we want congress and the administration to take measures to protect officials and want action to be taken and acted upon in terms of this because we're seeing people retire, people decide they're walking away from these jobs. and that is significantly going to undermine our elections going forward. a nonpartisan way being threatened, families are threatened. 2016, the election interference was largely overseas from russia and other places and last time around and what we could be facing and the confluence,

disinformation that originals overseas but amplified at home. >> you are right to call that out. adversaries are looking to exploit these opportunities. things like the audit that happened in arizona when unvetted people have access to voting equipment, it provides other opportunities to exploit. it provides opportunities to use disinformation, to exploit americans on social media, to exploit these images like we've seen on january 6th, to undermine our global standing. this is the beacon of democracy. they are no longer the beacon of democracy. it beats narratives here domestically in terms of

domestic threats where they are actively spreading disinformation in terms of groups here domestically that could lead to the rise of political violence. now the issue here is that we have partisans who are also leaders, lawmakers who are also part of the disinformation campaign and we're calling on congress to stop. we all have a responsibility to put a stop to this. stop with the conspiracies and lies because you're playing into it. >> for sure. olivia troye, thank you for being on the show. now to republican senator ted cruz of texas, who recently told a group of students that his state should secede from the union. if democrats, quote, fundamental destroy the u.s. -- >> i'm sorry. democrats? >> fundamentally destroy the u.s. >> let's take note of that right there.

at texas a&m cruz responded to a question about how he felt about the texas secessionist movement saying i think texas has a respond to the country, and i'm not ready to give up on america. i love this country, he said. he emphasized the country isn't at the point where texas would secede and while he doesn't support the movement. we're not there yet. i think we take nasa, we take the military, we take the oil -- >> it doesn't work that way. >> oh, my god. >> mike barnicle, so what were the things that would, quote, fundamentally destroy the united states? i can't even -- i can't even say it with a straight face. changing senate procedural

rules. if they change senate procedural rules or if d.c. becomes a state that fundamentally destroys the united states, it's a very, very low standard, but i will say this -- and i've done some checking up on this. i guess once a politician, always a politician. there are five marine bases in texas. we would love them in pensacola, florida. there are six air force bases in texas. i can't tell you, eggland air force base and, baby, we have space in northwest florida. as trent lott said to me your entire district is nothing more than a giant aircraft carrier. bring them on in. if ted wants to secede, a lot of great air force bases in san antonio, shepherd air force base. two massive coast guard stations, panama city.

panama city couldn't relocate those places anywhere better. cape canaveral, let's just keep it all in the sunshine state. cape canaveral can take whatever they've got. houston, we do it up and down the coastline, coco beach, we've got room. we have smart people. if ted really wants to secede because they're going to change one or two procedures, we in the sunshine state would gladly take all those military jobs and all those nasa jobs. >> you know, joe, what ted cruz stands for, what he speaks to, what he symbolizes, is ludicrous at one level but really dangerous at another and very public level. and we see how dangerous it can be as we watch everything play out day by day here in the united states. we just spoke with a former national security adviser. and when you're in the national

security council, you look at threats posed to the republic. threats posed to our democracy. and usually they could be internal, white nationalists, they could be external from various countries around the globe and various insurgencies around the globe. i would submit the largest threat to our democracy today is domestic and is aligned with the republican party, a party that has completely lost its way and now poses a tremendous danger to the way we govern ourselves. the senate rules are archaic. that's the least of our problems when you have at least over 200 republicans in the house of representatives, and i don't know how many members of the senate, who are aligned and associated with and allied with a former president of the united states whose intent is to disrupt and destroy our

democracy. >> again, if they change some archaic procedures in the united states senate which, by the way, has been changed time and time again through the years. i mean, i know there are some great people in corpus christi, the naval air station there. i think they would just love northwest florida, the great northwest, pensacola. they could go over to destin and seaside. there's so much to see there. so, yeah, if ted wants -- if ted wants texas to leave the union, we'll take all their jobs in florida. >> it's important to remember ted cruz tells the people in front of them whatever they want to hear at all times, right? he's essentially a troll in a suit serving as a united states senator. he also said sometimes at some point you just have to walk away, talking about the possibility of seceding from the union. he, of course, doesn't mean that, but it got him some

applause, maybe a couple laughs in the room. he is who he is. >> all right. >> we want the jobs. bring them to florida. coming up, the nfl fines aaron rodgers for not following covid-19 protocols. we'll get an update on his situation along with new developments when it comes to vaccines for kids. plus, a california couple had a sneaking suspicion something was not right after bringing home their new baby. turns out the mom had been carrying someone else's child after a mix-up at a fertility clinic. those details are next. "morning joe" is back in a moment.

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welcome back to "morning joe." 8:20 in the morning with a live look at times square in new york. overnight the nfl fined green bay packers quarterback, aaron rodgers, and the team for violating the league's covid

protocols. nbc news correspondent stephanie gosk has details. >> reporter: overnight the nfl finding the green bay packers and star quarterback aaron rodgers hitting the franchise with a $300,000 penalty and docking rodgers and teammate lazard. the discipline stemming partly from this halloween party that both unvaccinated players attended. the league adding the team failed to enforce protocols in a few instances including rodgers not wearing a mask during press conferences. days after a polarizing appearance rodgers struck a different tone tuesday afternoon but it wasn't exactly an apologetic one. >> i misled some people about my status, but, in the end, i have to stay true to who i am. >> reporter: after testing positive rodgers' mandated

ten-day quarantine ends on saturday just in time for sunday's game. >> i'm an athlete not an activist. >> reporter: the packers' star said he was immunized. >> are you vaccinated and what's your stance? >> i'm immunized. >> reporter: after admitting he was unvaccinated rodgers still defended his answer. >> it wasn't some sort of ruse or lie, it was the truth. >> reporter: he said he followed an immunization plan that did not include vaccinations. they are emphatic there's no proven process against covid-19 other than surviving the virus itself or getting one of the approved vaccines. previa announced it was ending its sponsorship with the green bay packers star. state farm insurance said it would be sticking by him writing in part we don't support some of the statements he made but

respect his right to have his own personal point of view. rodgers expressed sympathy but laughed off the suggestion his nfl legacy has been tarnished. >> you're probably never going to win an mvp again. that's probably never going to happen, right? >> i think that's a legitimate statement. >> rodgers says his covid symptoms are gone and he hopes to be on the field sunday. our next guest says we're losing ground against diseases we already have defeated.

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bhadelia an msnbc medical contributor, and white house editor for politico, sam stein. good morning to you both. sam, let me start with you, 35% of voters strongly support requiring all employers with as soon or more to have weekly testing, a nine-point dip since september. more than half support the mandates, sam, what do you read into that number? >> this is what happens when you have a campaign against mandates. if you turn into fox news you will see the elevation of people defiant, see the spotlighting of government officials who are introducing legislation saying mandates are an unconstitutional

breach, will see the elevation of stories about the legal challenges to the mandates and i think the american public picks up on that. a steady drop in support in favor of mandates. if you check it down the list, support for mandates for big business, for contractors, for health care workers. where you see the opposition is on the republican side, though, if you look at just the republicans. we're talking about anywhere between 65% to 67% of republicans opposing mandates for companies with 100 or more, in our polarized times this is just another thing to throw into that stew. >> dr. bhadelia, these polls are

important. just to get a pulse on where the american public is. as far as policymakers go, it should be largely irrelevant since most support the mandates. 75% of americans wanted us to go into iraq the first time. 75% wanted us to get out of afghanistan. policymakers have to make decisions based on what's best for the country. this isn't even a close call to help get us beyond covid. >> it's not even a close call in terms of what we all need to do. the only thing that's keeping us is getting ourselves and the rest of the world vaccinated, we're no longer in the moment of prolonged crisis. in a world where the vaccines haven't been so politicized

maybe you would have had more uptick and may not have needed mandates. we're in a once in a century pandemic, 60 million people still unvaccinated going into the winter with holiday travel, with colder weather. that is our vulnerability. and if we look to euram and other countries and see an increase in cases, the countries that have done the best in the setting of those increases are those with higher rates of vaccination, decoupled cases from vaccinations and deaths, and that's what we need. our vulnerability here, those communities who continue to not get vaccinated because of the disinformation and misinformation out there. kaiser had a survey that showed eight out of ten cannot tell if you a covid myth is accurate or not. >> that is stunning at this point where we are and i hope that we can get where we need to be to get this pandemic behind us.

i want to point to your piece about the united states losing ground against diseases we've already defeated and how this, does this have any connection with the mad rush to get a vaccine for covid? >> mika, some of this we've talked about before because the vaccine hesitancy was growing in this country even before the covid-19 pandemic, more and more parents trying to get exemptions to the point where for measles, for example, we've controlled it in 2000 and the year before the covid-19 pandemic happened over 1,200 cases in the country. all are happening in the anti-vax advocates, decreasing populational immunity against those cases. one is the politicalization around the vaccines themselves.

it seems to be eroding support around routine vaccinations. there is a poll that showed among gop vote arias drop from 59% to 46% for routine childhood vaccination and multiple states working on trying to increase ability of parents. montana has already passed. all of this is happening while worldwide we have disruptions in trying to get kids vaccinated. 23 million kids have not gotten their vaccines. >> dr. nahid bhadelia, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. coming up, two sets of parents in california give birth around the same time after both undergoing in vitro fertilization, and it turns out each woman was carrying the other's baby without even

knowing it. after a mix-up at the clinic. we'll bring you the details on that incredible story straight ahead. what the world needs now... is people. people who see flight a little bit differently. so it takes less fuel to bring people together... ...and make faraway places feel a little closer... ...with engines that power planes more efficiently. because seeing a better-connected world isn't far in the future. we're building it... now. ge. building a world that works.

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37 past the hour. a california couple is suing a fertility clinic after their embryo was switched with another during ivf treatment. the lawyer for the other couple involved says they also plan to file suit soon, but the story is raising questions about what others can do to keep this from happening. nbc news has more. >> reporter: a nightmare situation for two couples in california now prompting new questions about the fertility industry and in vitro fertilization. >> i was robbed of the ability to carry my own child. >> reporter: they say they missed out on a part of their daughter's life after they say a fertility clinic implanted a

stranger's embryo into her and hers into another woman leaving them to give birth to each other's daughters and raise them for months. they also have an older daughter say a dna test confirmed the mix-up and revealed they were not related to their baby girl. >> losing the birth of a child you know for the genetic child that you don't even know yet, it's a truly impossible nightmare that inflicted trauma. it will affect my family for the rest of our lives. >> reporter: the couples later legally switched babies. the clinic and the doctor involved have not responded to requests for comment. in vitro fertilization is a series of procedures in which eggs are fertilized by sperm in a lab before they are implanted in a woman's uterus. according to preliminary data from the cdc, in 2019 more than 80,000 babies were born through ivf or other assisted

reproductive technologies. mix-ups like this are rare, but in 2019 another couple said a mix-up at a different california fertility clinic led to their embryo being planted in a new york woman. they were not able to meet their baby boy until he was 6 weeks old. >> nobody should meet their baby in the lobby of a hotel. >> reporter: and whim the industry continues to grow it remains largely unregulated. critics say more oversight is needed in the industry. >> no authority or agency tracks or polices embryo mix-ups and freezer meltdowns. >> our thanks to erin mclaughlin for that report. the emotional story of one girl's struggle to lift herself out of poverty even if it meant abandoning her family. plus, there's inflation and then there's meat-flation.

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many americans, beef, is going up, too. nbc news correspondent kerry sanders reports. >> reporter: if beef is what's for dinner for your family, get ready for some fred flintstone-sized sticker shock. >> that will be $3.55. >> $3.55? >> reporter: the wholesale price of high quality beef is up 34% since last year and the beef and veal category is weighing in with the largest price increase, one of the priciest, bacon. it will cost you 40% more than it did at the beginning of the pandemic. >> definitely seeing the price going up on meat. i would say 10% if not more. >> reporter: the reason? the meat industry is facing the same woes as many others, labor, packing and shipping supply shortages making it tougher to get the product to your plate. >> it's not a chain. it's a jumbled mess. everything needs to go smoothly

in order for a product to hit the shelf or the customer to buy. >> reporter: changing consumer habits and the approaching holidays. >> when everybody starts panic buying, if you will, or picking up extra, the supply change cannot recalibrate that fast. >> reporter: consumers are feeling the ripple effects of disrupted production from a cyber attack that shut down u.s. beef plants. the cost for a cut of meat is expected to continue to rise. beef buyers should expect seasonal increases, some projections say whole sale beef could go up as much as another 24% by year's end. jack turned a portion of his steak house into a butcher shop during the pandemic to stay afloat. many of his grocery customers used to be restaurant regular lars. >> we have found the customers have been buying different beef so we have put in less expensive items and we feature those. you know, ground beef is a big

seller. >> reporter: if you're not ready to give up your meat, the pros say the cost of new york strip and top round are up but aren't as expensive as some others. kebabs are more cost effective. you can swap your red meat for chicken and save even more with the bone in. meatflation impacting what's for dinner on your plate and your wallet. also a new illustration of the economic pressures at play u.s. consumer prices soared 6.2% over the past 12 months. that's the most since 1990. so that's where we stand right now. everything you are seeing and feeling is real. today president biden will speak at the port of baltimore, one of many american ports the administration says will see relief from backlogs. the president is likely to highlight how the recently

passed infrastructure bill will help and he continues his push for passage of the build back better bill. a couple days ago the poor people's campaign sponsored a forum about that social infrastructure plan. joining us one of the speakers, professor and director of the center for sustainable development, economist dr. jeffrey sax, and president of repairers of the breach, reverend william barber. first, on the number i just shared with our viewers, can you talk to us about exactly where we stand in terms of this economy? reasons for the labor shortage, reasons for the supply chain shortage? >> we're still in the midst of a pandemic and all the disruptions. this has been the biggest shock

economically worldwide since world war ii. and so last year lots of supplies were cut because demand plummeted. and then this year there's been a resurgence of demand, and some of those supply chain cuts, oil, for example, has not returned. prices are soaring, and that's what we're seeing. this jolt from the pandemic. the main rule is we have to get past this pandemic. some of the earlier stories of the hour about getting vaccinated, getting the world vaccinated, getting back to normal post pandemic is crucial for the economy. then we're going to have a lot of rebuilding to do because a lot of people are suffering badly in this country. that's why reverend barber and i went to west virginia because the suffering is incredible,

especially in poor people across the country. >> reverend, let's pick up on that point and talk about what you've seen through the poor people's campaign on the ground, not just in west virginia but around the country and why you and dr. sachs believe this piece of legislation, important. reverend, we're going to fix your audio and get back to you. i'll let you pick up on that point. you've been traveling with reverend barber through the poor people's campaign. what are you seeing on the ground? >> oh, my god, we're seeing people that cannot make ends meet right now. they need help. they need help with child care. they need help with the basic health services. they need help with this family allowance that can continue, so we heard a lot of suffering in west virginia. ironically, the senator of west virginia, senator manchin is protecting the corporate interests and the wealthiest

people in this country rather than his own constituency, which makes no sense. i went there to try to figure out what is going on. manchin's the one saying don't tax the richest people. you know, i checked this morning, willie. the richest six americans now have a trillion dollars of wealth. the richest 20 americans could pay for the whole package for ten years for the whole country. >> yeah. >> and manchin says don't tax them. it's so weird. that's why we went to west virginia. >> okay. so dr. sachs, i love all the concepts in build back better and hope they happen. at the same time, i must ask that you answered part of the question about the supply shortage, but the labor shortage, i'm still trying to understand like how you have beal's lobster pound in southwest maine offering $20 an hour and health care and only

getting a few 17-year-olds signing up to work. i mean, what is -- if prices are going up and things more -- life is more expensive, why aren't people going back to work? and i was told already today already once was i told it's child care. i get that, but people worked before this issue came up, and yes, it would be great if we had child care and pre-k but people used to go to work. >> it was amazing. we saw and heard a young woman really in agony in tears saying how she had to leave her job. college degree in west virginia working for the state could not pay for the basic child care, which was taking half her paycheck. she left work because of this. it's unbelievable, and this is happening all over the country. women cannot go back to the work force right now.

poor people are suffering right now, and they need some basic help, and when you have 20 americans with 2 trillion. >> thinks they should be taxed. he's also said publicly that big pharma should be checked. kyrsten sinema has, of course, in the past tried to give big pharma a pass, and in the past has also not wanted to tax the richest 400 families in america who only pay an average of 6% taxes. so i just want to correct you there. i understand manchin, people like to kick manchin around.

let's get that right, which leads to the next question for me, jeffrey. i don't understand. you know, you and i have disagreed with a lot of things. we agree on debt. why are the billionaires still getting a free pass in the house tax plan where they want to keep taxing income and leaving capital, the billions and billions of dollars of capital unchecked? >> the rich are richer than we could ever have imagined in the history of the world right now, and there's no answer to this except that our political system is in the hands of the billionaires. and so of course they should be taxed, and of course this is the basic answer. we should pay for these things, but we should pay for them by the people who can pay for them. and then one day, you know, it's right. manchin was the one who said don't raise the corporate tax rate back to 28% after an

unaffordable cut in 2017, so he was trying to protect the corporate side. then he did say a couple of weeks ago, i don't know about this billionaire's tax also, but if he comes out for it, that's great. i'm going to campaign with him. if he comes out for taxing the richest people and the richest companies because there's where the money is right now in this country. >> right. >> this is where the money is. it's at the very top. >> it's where the money is. he's also talked about reversing the trump tax cuts. it seems to me, reverend barber, that should be the easiest thing to reverse the trump tax cuts where donald trump, after he passes those tax cuts goes to mar-a-lago and tells his billionaire friends i just made all of you a lot richer today while the poor get poorer. >> you're exactly right, joe, and we've -- and listen, we've talked to people in west virginia and, it's not about beating up on manchin.

there are 350,000 people in west virginia that make less than a living wage. they are crying out to their own senator and to sinema and to others. this bbb plan should have been passed first because we are not -- and i'm going to disagree with you, we're not a center right country. we got folks in the center of poverty, 140 million people in this country before covid. so even if you get back to pre-covid, it's not as though you get back to some pristine situation. and the reality is when we -- when you hold up this plan, take for instance expanded income, that ronald reagan supported by the way, you're talking about 17 million low wage workers that could benefit, and then you break it down racially, you're talking about 10 million white workers, some 2.3 million black workers and latino workers. and what happens is these are the numbers we should have been talking about and who's really hurting whether or not it's 1

trillion or 3 trillion. that 1.7 is less than 1% of the total output of our country, and we're acting like it's going to break the bank. people are hurting and they've been hurting, and i've -- met with him. he told us he was -- republicans over, when has it ever happened? what would be wrong with $15 in a union. we had a economist just get the nobel peace prize a few weeks ago saying clearly that having a living wage is not going to hurt jobs. it would actually lift people out of poverty that would benefit society. we are having a shell game. we should not even be talking about less than the 3 trillion. this is where we are. this is where we are, and people are hurting, and they're in the center of pain. in addition to that, people die people die from poverty. talk to the people we talked about to yesterday. i would say we want you to bring

those people on the line, let you hear what they've heard from their senator. >> we're having trouble with dr. -- with reverend barber's -- we're having trouble with reverend barber's audio rite now. jeffrey sachs, you certainly got the point of what reverend barber said. the thing that rang true to me and i'm sure rings true to you, as you know, i'm a small government conservative. you are more progressive, but what he said that rings true to both of us is the fact that just getting back to this massive wealth disparity pre-covid is not enough. we tax small business owners. we tax working americans so much more than we tax the richest 400 households in america who pay about 6% tax on their income tax, if that.

and this scam of, oh, they haven't realized their capital gains when they've made a billion or $2 billion, and they get all the benefits that go along with that, it's a laughable joke, and the democrats have to get more aggressive. and again, i'm looking at the house right now and the tax bill that they've put out there. >> i couldn't agree with you more. the president should be out there every day on making sure that the rich pay their due. the american people are joef -- overwhelmingly in support of this. every opinion poll shows 65, 70% of americans say tax the corporations, tax the super rich, especially when this morning the richest 20 americans have $2 trillion of wealth. they could pay for entire ten years for the nation, 20 people, and they're not taxed. they got all those capital gains, not just a billion or two as you mentioned, joe, but 10,

20, 30, $50 billion in capital gains, none of it taxed, and this is what the american people want. they want basic justice and they want to be able to go to work and have their child in a safe place. in a pre-k or in a child care center, and it breaks your heart to hear the stories that we heard in west virginia. this is a need. >> for sure, jeffrey sachs and reverend william barber, thank you both. the conversation certainly will continue. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> hey there, i'm stephanie ruhle live at msnbc headquarters here in new york city. it is wednesday, november 10th, and we've got all the facts you need to know this hour. so let's get smarter. we got breaking news in the state of our economy