pebble in a pond, it changes everyone's lives around that veteran. >> reporter: ptsd is why veterans are 60% more likely to separate or divorce than the average american. >> on this veterans day we thank all the veterans who served this country today and always. thank them every day. today especially. that wraps up this busy hour. i'm stephanie ruehl. thank you for watching. any anyone now the rittenhouse trial is set to resume in kenosha, wisconsin. we're keeping an eye on arlington national cemetery where president bide listen speak shortly on this veterans day. jose diaz-balart picks up news coverage right now. >> good morning. it's 10:00 a.m. eastern/7:00 a.m. pacific. i'm jose diaz-balart on this day at arlington national cemetery procession and fly-over to mark the 100th anniversary of the tomb of the unknown soldier. president biden will be speaking

next now. kyle rittenhouse got emotional testifying in his own defense. in washington the sharpest crisis in decades is complicated biden's efforts to sell his agenda. nearly 20 million people in california find themselves under a drought emergency, this as california and other western states are seeing a spike in covid cases. any moment now, kyle rittenhouse homicide trial gets back under way and the defense plans to call several more witnesses today and follows a dramatic day in the courtroom with rittenhouse taking the stand himself and becoming emotional. all eyes are on the judge who was considering a mistrial request from rittenhouse's attorneys over the prosecution's questioning. joining me from outside the courtroom is nbc news

correspondent gabe gutierrez, also joining me is nbc news legal analyst maya wily. thank you for being with me. gabe, the judge admonished the prosecutor yesterday. what's everyone watching for today? >> reporter: it was quite a sight. i've seen judges be stern with prosecutors or defense attorneys before. this was in front of all the cameras. out of the view of the jury, the jury was outside the room at the time but he lashed out at prosecutors, one prosecutor over his line of questioning and also a very emotional testimony from kyle rittenhouse. what we're looking at today the defense as you mentioned expected to call several more witnesses, they indicated they had at least three remaining, one use of force expert, also talk about the time line of events and other eyewitness on the ground at the shootings that night and an expert on shell casings to address some things the prosecution brought up

during its case. now, again, several more witnesses late yesterday the judge indicated we could expect closing arguments early next week but like the case wrapped up tuesday. jose, a remarkable day of testimony with kyle rittenhouse taking the stand insisting he act in self-defense saying that he did nothing wrong, that he did what he had to do to prevent the attackers from harming him. the prosecution though will see what we're looking for is how it will rebound today after a very, very difficult day yesterday. >> theish auto you that led to the request for mistrial was the line of questioning from the prosecution referenced evidence the judge previously ruled inadmissible. do you sey reason why the prosecution would do that? >> it was a little more gray than that, jose and i think that's part what's complicated

about what's going on here. there was a discussion about whether the prosecution could ask mr. rittenhouse questions about not speaking about his self-defense if it was self-defense at the time. the judge had indicated he wasn't sure he would like that line of questioning, but he didn't make a final decision. now mr. rittenhouse is in the jury box on the stand and the prosecution says "opening the door" what we call, to a line of questioning that goes to their credibility, because that's what the jury is, part of what the jury has to judge in this case is do we believe mr. rittenhouse or do we believe the forensic evidence, the video and what we're hearing from other witnesses? all trial lawyers do this, try to ask the questions that plant the seeds for the questions you want the jury to ask themselves. and so it's very hard for me to

see this as a mistrial with prejudice, meaning the prosecution can't come back and try again, but we'll see what happens. i have no idea what this judge will do. >> interesting, because you know, for civilians that don't normally get a chance to look at the inner workings of a court case, you know, it seems shocking but is there an impact, do you think, that the judge, having a conflict with prosecutors, could that in some way have an impact on the trial as it heads into closing arguments the next week? >> well, absolutely. the judge is essentially for the jury their guide in the trial, their neutral person they look to both for the rules of the road at the closing. the judge is going to tell the jury, if there's no mistrial, if the trial continues, he's going to tell the jury how they're supposed to hear the evidence, what they're allowed to take into account, what they're not allowed to take into account, and this judge, you know, from

the outside looking in, and i haven't been inside that courtroom, but certainly seems to be predisposed in some ways to the defense, and his level of anger and response and some instances allowing the defense to use words like "mobs" and "rioters are" when the prosecution cannot use words like "victims" for the people killed and harmed in this case. those are the things that it's not a balanced approach. usually you can all use those adjectives or none of you can. i think we're seeing a line of behavior that is signaling something to the jury not necessarily sure it's enough for the prosecution to amount an appeal. we'll see what happens as this trial plays out. very concerning it doesn't necessarily seem as bad as i would like it as a trial lawyer. >> even though the jury wasn't present in the most intense back-and-forth, and the judge and the prosecutioner, but there

is a tone the jury has been seeing. maya, when would or could the judge declare one way or another on the mistrial issue in a court case? >> well, the trial is either going on it's not, if it's a mistrial, it's a mistrial. the judge has up until the end of the trial to make that decision, but i suspect that he will make it today. >> thank you for being with me this morning. so appreciate your time. now to washington where rising prices for gas, food and other items continues to complicate president biden's efforts to sell his agenda. the white house says president bide listen sign the bill during a ceremony on monday. the announcement came as the president traveled to baltimore to push forward that legislation. he also acknowledged the toll rising prices are taking on people's wallets with inflation seeing its sharpest increase in

three decades. >> many people remain unsettled about the economy, and we all know why. they see higher prices. they go to the store, online, or they go to the store or online and can't find what they always want and when they want it, and we're tracking these issues, trying to figure out how to tackle them head on. >> with me now nbc news white house correspondent monica alba and stephanie ruehl, msnbc anchor and senior business correspondent. what is causing prices to rise as rapidly as they are, stephanie? >> it is all about the pandemic. we are not facing inflation in isolation and the government knew that. it's why we saw them create programs and put together so much support, knowing that the economic recovery which we are in was going to be unpredictable and rocky, why we saw three separate stimulus checks that extended unemployment benefits and even right now, remember we have that expanded child tax

credit on average giving the family of 60 million children about $430 a month. what about people on fixed incomes, they can't pay the prices. come 2022 social security benefits are justed up 5.9% to adjust for inflation. all of this is tied to the recovery, they're doing sam things. it's not enough. the number one thing on americans' minds at the gas pump and the grocery store. the president could likely do something around gas prices, release oil reserves in the coming weeks because people are worried. >> president biden said the infrastructure and spending bills will ease inflation. why does the white house believe the bills will do that? >> the president tried to make this indication yesterday at the port of baltimore. his infrastructure plan which will become law as soon as he signs it has $17 billion

reserved for ports to ease some of the congestion. all of this is tied together and intertwined. some of the goods and demand and supply and challenges are connected because of the pandemic and what we're seeing. the supply chain disruption contributes to the rising inflation numbers. the president came with a sympathetic tone, acknowledged americans pain, the families going through this action seeing this on the shelves and pocket books and saying i think this plan that will be a reality very soon will help in this regard. he tried to make the pitch for his second part of his economic agenda, the build back better plan because he's arguing that if people have help in things like child care and elder care, that that will also ease some of these worries. they're watching closely that will happen with the pandemic and the economic recovery has had its bumps. the white house is arguing these

things can help but it definitely clouded what was supposed to be a pretty pure victory lap yesterday, given that these numbers came out and the president is trying to tout this bipartisan win acknowledging the challenge that still remains and many people are seeing on a day-to-day basis impacting their bottom line. >> i'm wondering why they didn't sign it immediately, start the process moving and go out in the country and have every secretary tear of every department, the president, vice president out in our country explaining what this is, and how it's going to benefit the american people. is that not a plan going forward? >> and the president himself has said he wants to see shovels in the ground as soon as possible to get some of these infrastructure projects under way, but just as much of a priority for this white house is a little bit of the optics of bringing together republicans and democrats, not just in congress and those critical in getting this across the finish line but also inviting

republican mayors and governors to come here to the white house on monday to hold this massive event, to try to explain to people exactly what's in it and say he's going to argue when we put our minds to something like this and work and reach across the aisle, we can get something done. the real time impact of this, jose, americans will likely start to see the benefits from this $1.2 trillion package in the next two to three months. we're not talking about any immediate relief here and again, the other half of this, the $1.75 trillion so-called human infrastructure has an uphill climb on capitol hill. we'll see how that progresses next week when the house and senate are back in session. >> jose, issue in that argument, these shovels in the ground, who's going to be holding these shovels in we already have a labor shortage in this country, and the whole idea that these big infrastructure projects while we absolutely need them are going to create jobs, we don't have the people to fill those jobs and the president said they will be better, higher

paying jobs. this is one of the dirty secrets around inflation. people pushed to raise wages. we need americans in low wage jobs to make more. when wages go up, we're seeing all sorts of businesses now pass that cost on to consumers and we are paying for that. that's one of the contributing factors to inflation, and the other thing we should note, a really dirty little secret, one of the contributing factors is that the american people don't like paying more, but we have the money. household savings has hit a record high, we're expecting holiday retail sales to blow through records. so we don't like that we have to spend this kind of money and it's certainly risky for our most vulnerable americans but as far as how your average american and your wealthier american is doing, they're doing very well. they've got the money to spend on this, so if you run a business, you can charge a higher price. people are happy to pay it. >> stephanie ruehl here is another secret. i love that you make the complicated easy to understand and i thank you for doing that.

>> i thank you for giving me the opportunity. >> it's always great to see both of you. thank you for being with me this morning. time to take a look at the headlines outs west and houston, two concert goers are in critical condition after eight died this weekend. the state is taking steps to improve concert safety in the aftermath. emily, what is the latest on astroworld? >> reporter: houston police warning the complicated investigation will take months as authorities try to pin down who knew what when and a news conference the police chief said the ultimate authority to end a show is with the production and the entertainer and apparent jab at travis scott. his attorney speaking out yesterday telling nbc news some city officials have sent inconsistent messages and have backtracked from original statements and of course all of this back and forth as we learn more about the terrifying moments that led to eight deaths and numerous hospitalizations from the concertgoers.

listen here. >> i accepted the fact that i might have died. six or seven people were on top of me at one point. >> i thought i was going to lose her and scared me the most, honestly. >> reporter: this is not first time a live nation event has turned deadly. since 2006 the event production company has been connected to multiple deaths and hundreds of lawsuits. nbc's calls to live nation and the security companies involved have not been returned and jose, the terrible tragedy prompting governor abbott to form a task force on concert safety. >> emily, also new information about the fatal shooting on set of the movie "rust"? >> reporter: that's right. we're learning more in a new lawsuit filed this week by the chief lighting director, serge svetnoy, who teld held hutchins as thee died. he claimed baldwin never should have pointed the gun at anyone. he's not singling out any one

point adding corners were cut to save cash on the film. the armorer is saying this was sabotage. >> southern california facing a drought emergency. who is it affecting? >> reporter: certainly widespread, nearly half of california residents are under a regional drought emergency as record dry conditions continue to grip the state. april major water supplier calling for increased conservation ertz. the governor urged residents in july to cut water usage by 15%. residents only reduced usage by 5% in august. the state's last few years the driest two-year period on record for precipitation. jose? >> emily ikeda in los angeles, thank you. still ahead a business owner in maine about what he says is key to fixing the labor shortage

in his community, and in the country. plus we'll talk to a colorado doctor about why the state is seeing an uptick in covid cases again. and let's take a live look at the courtroom in kenosha, wisconsin, kyle hit rittenhouse's homicide trial is resuming. we're monitoring. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. t if your phone can help you track your pizza come on, cody. where are you, buddy? then your bank should help you track your spending. virtual wallet® is so much more than a checking account. its low cash mode feature gives you at least 24 hours of extra time to help you avoid an overdraft fee. okay, he's gotta be close. he's six blocks in the other direction. make a left, make a left, make a left! he made a right again. virtual wallet® with low cash mode from pnc bank. one way we're making a difference. as a dj, i know all about customization. low cash mode from pnc bank. that's why i love liberty mutual. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need.

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21 past the hour. the latest in the covid-19 pandemic. california's central valley, hospitalizations are once again climbing, as officials there are forced to postpone surgeries and transfer patients to other hospitals to make room for new covid patients. joining me from fresno, california, is steve patterson. steve, good morning. what more can you tell us about the situation on the ground there? >> reporter: look, jose, one of the most striking things you look up and see here are the

tents, the surge capacity never truly left this area, as the crisis never truly left this area, but health officials say things are starting to get far worse, many hospitals are reporting 120% to 130% capacity, about 19 icus left in the county, and 911 calls in some cases are being diverted away from emergency rooms. in some ways, this was expected in this region for some of the numbers that we have here, the vaccination rate woefully low, only about 50%, when you compare it to the rest of the state, but many other health officials are pointing to this area and saying this is the canary in the coal mine for the rest of the state. already across the state of california, the daily average case counts are about the same of what they were last year which points to another winter surge. i spoke to a doctor about that. here's what he told me. >> a few days to weeks ago we felt we were an exception because we saw the rest of the state's numbers going down while our numbers were plateauing.

it seems to be we're ahead of everybody in terms of the curve that's to come and that's very concerning because it really tells us that we may be at the tip of this winter surge that's going to hit the rest of the state and possibly the rest of the nation. >> reporter: officials say one of the big drivers could be the waning immunity in a woefully underenthusiasm for booster shots. 65 plus that are vaccinated only about a third of them have gotten a booster in california so far. jose? >> steve, california's had some strict vote kohls on the pandemic. is there any understanding of whys' going up now? clearly the delta variant is at play but why now? >> reporter: delta variant is raging ac ross the country, that is what's driving many of its cases that we're seeing. however, as you said, it's been pretty strict in california. health officials are pointing to a few things.

obvious he will it's colder. people are more packed tight in but also again, it is the boosters. it is the fact that immunity is waning so much, many of the people who were enthusiastic about getting their vaccine if that immunity is wearing off and people aren't getting their boosters, headed into a holiday or winter season, that could be a bad formula for what we see in the coming next few months. jose? >> steve waterson in fresno, thank you very much. joining me is dr. michelle baron, senior medical director of infection and prevention control at the university of colorado health. always a pleasure to see you, doctor. this week, colorado officials declared a crisis standard of care due to a staffing shortage at health care facilities. where do things stand at your hospital? >> they're really busy. unfortunately we're seeing what everybody else across colorado is seeing as well, that we have an influx of covid patients, a lot of them quite sick and then we have all the regular patients

that we normally take care of as well that are obviously entering the hospital. >> so doctor, what do you attribute this also wave increasing in colorado? we were just speaking with steve patterson about what happens in parts of california. what do you attribute this wave in colorado to? >> it's complicated obviously, there's probably not just one factor but certainly as was mentioned earlier, the waning immunity probably is playing some role in this, but primarily the biggest issue still is that the vast majority of our hospitalized patients with covid are unvaccinated, and if you look at the counties in colorado that are having the highest increases in terms of testing pass positivity and vaccinations it's the one with the least vaccinations. the analogy of canary in the coal mine is a good one.

>> communities behind as far as immunizations going to get the vaccines what, would you say to them? >> it's important for everybody to understand this virus is not done with us. so many people are tired, they just really want to be done, and not have to think about this, and unfortunately, it's still here. we do expect it to continue to rise just because as the winter months get koerld, people are indoors, the holidays, exposures will continue to happen and so getting out, getting your booster, getting your primary vaccine, vaccinating your children is so important in terms of being able to limit the spread of this. >> and doctor, the issue of the boosters, it's still kind of limited, the number of people that qualify to be getting a booster. should that be changing? >> that's a great question. i think it's always about weighing the risk/benefit ratio. as we continue to see surges in areas that have high vaccination rates from the get-go, i think

it's going to become more and more important to think about the role of waning immunity and it's something i think the state of colorado is recognizing is an important thing as well, and they have actually recommended that individuals get their booster because the rates are just so high right now. >> doctor, always a pleasure to see you. thank you for your time. >> thank you. still ahead, we'll talk to a business owner about the one thing he believes is critical to the economic recovery. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports." ♪ ♪

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31 past the hour. when we talk about immigration, many times you hear about issues of the border, but immigration is an issue with enormous implications across the country, and across our economy, and there are calls for republicans and democrats to come together and fix issues in america's immigration system, something that hasn't happened since 1986. one of the people calling for change is john stein, owner of the fog town brewing company in

maine. he recently wrote an op-ed for the "bangor daily news" calling for a path to citizenship for millions of undocumented immigrants to help eels the labor shortage facing businesses small and large. john stein joins me now. great to see you this morning. how much of an impact is the labor shortage havingfog town brewing company? >> huge. we're closing next week, which is a decision we made this morning after not being able to stock our bar with bartenders, taking a huge loss and hopefully be able to open again soon. >> john, you're having to shut down your source of income that is giving jobs to so many people because you simply can't find people? >> that's right. even this summer at the height of the tourist industry here in bar harbor, which is a huge industry, we weren't able to open all the days we wanted to. we couldn't stock our bar with

enough bartenders so we did take that loss. right now we can't stock enough people to make our pizza which brings people into our beer garden. bartenders don't have replacements, they're overworked and we're always looking for new people. >> jon, how would approving a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants help you and your fellow business owners? >> well, it's a little bit about fogtown and me but mostly about our fellow business owners and local people. even since publishing the op-ed in the "bangor daily news" i've had friends call and email me, dozens of people in support, so one friend owns a construction company and he can't build without a labor force, another friend is a director of the chamber of commerce in bar harbor, as i said, it's a huge town for the service industry and they can't find enough

workers. another does photo voltaic projects. >> jon, it's important to talk about the fact that it is across our economy. it is a thread that runs throughout our economy and throughout the entire country. there are daca recipients working the front lines of the health care industry to deal with the covid pandemic, saving lives, there are people throughout this country that could participate if they have the opportunity to do so. what is it that you are asking? >> i'm asking for a pathway to citizenship. as you say, the struggles for people even who are granted visas or asigh lem, i've watched friends, colleagues, employees struggle with the difficult visa paperwork, the bureaucratic

hurdles involved. for me it's an issue about whether or not i can open my brewery. but for them, it's if they go home to see their families, are they able to come back to the u.s., a place this they now call home or will they be able to find work and a place to live? these are often the most marginalized people. >> jon, look forward to having a beer with you up there soon. >> all right. >> when you reopen. thanks, jon. appreciate your time. >> take care. as we honor our nation's veterans today, we take a look at latinos in the military, and the struggles they face. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports." you need an ecolab scientific clean here. and here. which is why the scientific expertise that helps operating rooms stay clean now helps the places you go too. look for the ecolab science certified seal. at t-mobile for business, unconventional thinking means we see things differently, so you can focus on what matters most. whether it's ensuring food arrives as fresh as when

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- [announcer] meet the ninja foodi family, with pressure cookers that steam crisp, ovens that flip up and away, grills that bring outdoor flavors indoors, and blenders that spin up healthy eating. ninja foodi, be proud of what you make. live pictures of arlington national cemetery as we reflect on veterans day.

earlier a fly over and a procession was held to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the tomb of the unknown soldier. we're taking a look at latinos in the military and the struggle for many to rise through the ranks. tom llamas anchor of "top story on" on nbc news now has more. >> jose, for years thousands of latinos have enlisted across all branches of the military but few have risen through the ranks. in our series, those who serve, we asked a top pentagon official who is preventing so many latinos being promoted? ricardo can't forget the lows, setbacks that grounded his career. >> it's a dream of a life time. i fell in love with flying back when i was 7 years old. >> reporter: after serving the country for 15 years, that dream came to a screeching halt. >> i saw no more future in the active duty for me. >> reporter: he was no longer

rising in the ranks. he says he wasn't sure why until he looked in the mirror. do you think the opportunities to hit the right steppingstones in the military didn't come to you because you were hispanic? >> yes. the short answer is yes. >> reporter: why did you think it had to do with your ethnic isn't it >> i had no other reason to think it had to do with anything else. >> reporter: he served in the air force reserve, where he says he received the right training and mentoring to move up, becoming a brigadier general before retiring in 2007. latinos make up just over 17% of active duty members, but only 8% of the officer corps and 1% of general and flag officers. right now there's only one three-star general, no four-star general and there's never been a hispanic secretary of defense. >> we're being ignored. latinos in the military are not mentored by senior leadership and the reason is senior leadership that looks at

hispanic does not exist. >> reporter: one of the newest undersecretaries at the dod is gilbert cisneros. he experienced the dead end during his time in the navy. >> i can look at my own self. i was passed up at the 03 level for promotion. >> reporter: you experienced this? >> i have. here this is one of the reasons i wanted this job. >> reporter: what did you blame it on? >> you know -- hmm. you know, going back and reflecting on why i was passed over, you can kind of think like okay, was there bias or was there racism toward that? i can kind of asume that might have been part of it. >> reporter: now he's in a position to change that. so how do you do that? what is the biden administration doing to fix this problem? >> there's a lot of things that we're going to do, mentorship is one of the things but a number of things coming down from recruiting talent to retaining talent in order to grow those

individuals so that we can have latinos become, you know, flag and general officers. >> reporter: nonprofit organizations like esposas an militas, military family advisory network and others are tackling challenges when it comes to latinos in the military. >> anso has a lot of retired flag officers who offer their time up freely, mentoring young junior officers. we need allies and people who say we need to help the young men and women. >> reporter: these groups serving a new type of mission long overdue. as the owner's secretary told me you don't make general overnight. it takes decades. we reached out to every branch in the military, all mentioned targeted recruitment efforts and mentorship, including the u.s. army, who launched a new initiative to recruit new talent and broaden the access to senior

officer training. former president of south africa who shared the nobel peace prize with nelson mandela has died. his complicated life and legacy, next. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports." pnc bank believes that if a pair of goggles can help your backhand get better yeah! then your bank should help you budget even better. virtual wallet® is so much more than a checking account. its low cash mode℠ feature gives you at least 24 hours of extra time to help you avoid an overdraft fee. you see that? virtual wallet® with low cash mode℠ from pnc bank. one way we're making a difference.

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de klerk freed mandela and later shared the nobel peace prize with him for their role in ending apartheid. here is raph sanchez. de klerk had a lot of shadows and some light in his life. he represented apartheid that horrible system and yet had a role in ending it. >> reporter: jose that's exactly right. 'a complicated legacy, de klerk was from a family of pro-apartheid politicians. he made his career as a defender of apartheid but when he got into office, south africa's president in 1989, he came to realize that the system was effectively untenable and he went on to free mandela from prison to negotiate with him and to end the apartheid system. he actually served as mandela's vice president for a period in the 1990s, they shared the nobel peace prize but the personal relationship between them was always complicated and the mandela foundation released a

statement today, saying de klerk's legacy was a big one but uneven one. >> indeed. we've been closely matching the migrant crisis at the border between poland and belarus. what is the latest? >> there are 15,000 polish troops on the border trying to hold back the refugees and migrants coming from belarus. the european union is accusing belarus of what they say is hybrid warfare, effectively using these tess pratt people as a weapon. poland is even saying that the kremlin is behind this accusing vladimir putin of trying to use these people to destabilize europe. the kremlin denies that, but at the end of the day it is these families, men, women and children who were stuck there on the border, spending days and freezing nights and they seem to be pawns in some kind of bigger political game here. jose? >> what a horrible thing to use

suffering people as a weapon. raph, there's an incredible piece of art that make a journey from turkey to england. >> reporter: this puppet is called little amal, not actually that little, she's 12 feet tall, made the 5,000-mile journey frod she has made the 5,000 journey from turkey to the uk. the point of the art to remind people of the plight of refugees around the world. we paid a lot of attention to refugees back in 2015, 2016 during the refugee crisis. we don't talk about them so much anymore. there are still millions of people displaced across the middle east and across the world, and the message of this piece of art is don't forget about us. don't forget about these refugees. >> always very good reminder. thanks for being with me this morning. still ahead, a stunning report about who is taking americans hostage around the world. we're watching the kyle rittenhouse homicide trial in wisconsin right now. we'll bring you any developments

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(swords clashing) -had enough? -no... arthritis. here. new aspercreme arthritis. full prescription-strength? reduces inflammation? thank the gods. don't thank them too soon. kick pain in the aspercreme. the american journalist detained in myanmar since may could be facing life in prison after prosecutors there just filed two new charges against him. terrorism and seditious. it's unsure why he was detained and the u.s. state department called for his release. this comes as a startling new

washington post report looks at the dozens of americans currently held hostage abroad. finding, quote, foreign governments now surpass terrorists and militant groups as the predominant hostage takers of u.s. people around the globe. joining me is kate and jason who was held hostage by the iranian government for more than 500 days. thank you for being with me. kate, what did your reporting reveal about which governments are behind these detentions? >> well, the united states government is hesitant to acknowledge or identify which of the governments are actively taking because they want to make sure that they have some negotiating room and don't want an even chain. experts say venezuela, north korea, russia, and china in particular, are some of the most active states that are using americans as diplomatic

leverage. >> and jason, you were held by iran. it's 544 days. we talk about this in the abstract, but what does it mean for people like this to be held hostage? >> well, jose, thank you for shedding light on this subject. it is a destruction on an individual, on family, on entire communities to be thrown into prison essentially as bait for your home government. in this case, the united states. and it's a tool that governments are using more and more, but i have to tell you that every single day that i spend in prison and each one of these innocent americans is spending in prison right now takes a toll on you. and as the days and weeks, months mount up, it's really hard to reclaim your life once you come home. >> yeah. and you know, i so admire you. you're an extraordinary person.

we so muched a hire how you are and how you've been. kate, why did governments appear to be more bold with these detentions? >> i mean, i think it's a number of factors, and to be clear, this has been happening for a long time. jason is an example of that. i didn't mention iran, but there are four americans right now in iran right now that we are being held as state hostages. i think iran is actually incentivizing other countries. other countries are seeing iran has done that and gotten away with it to some degree. also u.s. standing in the world is slipping to some extent. i think that this is an indicator, one of many of a shifting paradigm which u.s. exceptionism is no longer a guarantee that you are safe to do business, travel, and live in other countries. our international system is creeky. russia is using interpoll, for example, to arrest its own

nationals. there's havana syndrome which is the -- the attack on americans and other westerners by an unknown country, for example. so we're in a situation now where governments are being more creative in their use of diplomatic tools that used to be no-go zones. so the u.s. is responding to this. but it is essentially -- it's not flat footed, but it doesn't know exactly how to navigate a situation where there are no rules anymore. >> right. jason, i'm wondering when you're in the depth of darkness, being held in a place by some group that owns all the power, right, where do you find rays of light? >> for me, in the first few weeks of my imprisonment, i was

in solitary confinement. there were very few rays of light. i was being sealed off from the world, and i had no idea, if anything was being done to save me. but as time went on, and i started to realize through the iranian propaganda media networks, the case they were building against me was a reaction to the public outcry and the rest of the world for my freedom. and i think this is something that i have counseled other families who are going through this to do, to raise the bar and raise the cases of their loved ones who are being held unjusty by foreign governments as widely as possible. >> jason, kate, thank you. thank you so much for your time. >> thank you. that wraps up the hour for me. i'm jose diazbalart.

thank you for the privilege of your time. and a good thursday morning to you from msnbc world head kwaerlts in new york city. on this veteran's day we start by honoring the men and women who have served our country. those of us who live in freedom will always be grateful to those who help preserve it. right now for that reason, we have our eyes on arlington national cemetery there in northern virginia. any moment president biden and first lady dr. jill biden will lay a wreath at the tomb of the unknown soldier. it's the first veteran's day we're marking since withdrawing from america's longest war in afghanistan just a few months ago. when the ceremony starts, we will take you there