as we say here quite often, it would be a good time to start paying attention. that is our broadcast for this monday night as we start off a new week with our thanks for being here with us. on behalf of all our colleagues thanks to your home for joining us this hour. president biden gave his first state of the union address, in april this year. he could've done it in january or february which is pretty typical for one state of the union address tends to happen this days. but he decided to wait until almost the end of april, until he was 100 days into his ministration before he gave his state of the union. and, yes i know it's not technically called the state of a union address when a president delivers in his first, year but honestly talk to the hands. it's exactly what it is, there's no point and pretending otherwise, i'll also just say

for the record it does not matter if you call a group of attorney generals attorney generals, or attorneys general, it also doesn't matter if you say pled guilty versus pleaded guilty. it's all okay. we all have an amnesty and all of these things, i hereby declare. anyway. i'm going to call it a state of the union. in his first state of the union address as president. president biden ended his address on what's at the time was sort of a surprise note. during the course of his address he talked about covid, and covid relief legislation, and vaccines, he talks about china, he talked about afghanistan, the prospects for gun reform, immigration, voting rights. the whole gamut. state in the union addresses always have everything in them. but, of all the things that he talked about, this is where he chose to wind it up. this is where he ended. >>, as we gather here tonight,

image of a violent mob assaulting this capitol desecrating our democracy, remain pivotal and all of our minds. lives were put it, risk many of your lives, lives were lost, extraordinary courage was summoned. the insurrection was an existential crisis, a test, on whether our democracy could survive. and it did. but the struggle is far from over. the question whether democracy will long endure is both ancient and urgent. as old as our republic. still vital today. can our democracy deliver on its promise. that all created equal in the image of god have a chance to live in dignity, respect and possibility. can our democracy deliver the most pressing needs of our people? america's adversaries, the autocrats of the world. are betting we cannot. and i promise you, they are betting we cannot. they believe are too full of

angry division and rage. we look at the images of the mob on this salt of the capital is proof. that the sun is setting on american democracy. but they are wrong. you know, i know it. we have to prove them wrong. we have to prove democracy still works, in another era, where democracy is tested, franklin roosevelt reminded us, in america we do our part, we all do our part, that's all i'm asking. that we do our part. all of us. if we do that, we will meet the center challenge of the age by proving that democracy is doable and strong. on a crafts will not win the future. we will, america will. folks, as i told every world leader i've ever met over the years, it's never been a good bet to get against america, and it still isn't. we are the united states of

america. there's not a single thing, nothing beyond our capacity. we can do whatever we set our minds to do, if we do it together. so let's begin to get together. god bless you all, and may god protect our troops. >> and that's how it ended. the autocrats of the world are betting that democracy is over, that this is the sunsets of american democracy. we need to prove them wrong. by showing that our government, democracies, still works and can deliver for people. can make us not just competitive but can make us win the fights of our day. he made this case that we should want that, for ourselves, in terms of welfare is a country. but we should also on that to quote a phrase, the government of the people by the people in for the people share not perish from this earth.

president biden, from the very beginning, making this public case, that the autocrats of the, world not only believe they are committed to the contention that the united states of america cannot deliver real results. because of this unwieldy coffin us inefficient democratic system that we have. they're betting, on it they're committed to our failure. and so we have to show our success. we have to show that they're wrong. we have to prove that we can do it. that we can govern, we can deliver, we can address the challenges of our time. president biden has returned to this team again and again. in the course of his presidency. he often puts it in quite personal terms, in terms of which autocrats he's talking about. >> i've known she ping for a long time. we've spent hours an hours with him, alone with an interpreter. my interpreter and his. going into great detail, very

straightforward. doesn't have a democratic with a small d bone in his body. but he's a smart smart guy, he's one of the guys, like putin, who thinks that autocracy is the way of the future. democracy cannot function, in an ever complex world. i spent an awful lot of time with him. president of, china more than any other world leader has, and he's made a very clear, he doesn't think democracies can compete in the 21st century. guess what, i've just come back from a congress conference with putin, he thinks the same thing, i am news for them. a top receives will not succeed, if we do it we can do as a democracy, if you know this it's not a joke, that the rest of the world is hedging their bets. we will move toward a top russi, or stay with democracies.

>> this is a recurring theme as been pounding away out for the full year that he's been president. we need to, protect our democracy at home, from his domestic enemies. and we need to use our democratic system of government to do stuff. to take care of people. to fix problems that need fixing. so that we can continue to show the world that democracy is better than whenever strongman alternative might be, muscling in. well, he's been pounding away on that theme for a year, almost a year now, and today appears to have been the days been waiting for. because right now, as we speak, president biden is having would i believe is already an hours long teleconference summit meeting with president xi of china. it started after dinnertime. it's likely to be a late, night both leaders will be speaking through interpreters, both of them forgive me are famously verbose, the agenda for this summit is long. this is what president biden is

doing right now. it started about 7:45 eastern time tonight. and it's hard to believe that it's a coincidence, that this afternoon, right before he went into his summit, there he was, and a full blown crowded, multiple standing ovation, formal signing ceremony at the white house. celebrating the fact that he has just signed into law, a 1.2 trillion dollar investment, in american infrastructure. now, granted, 1.2 trillion dollars is like a rounding error, in terms of what china spends on infrastructure. both what they spend at home and also around the world. the chinese government building infrastructure projects in countries all over the, place to basically buy influence and pay foreign leaders to be pro chinese. they are way ahead of us in terms of infrastructure spending and in terms of building for the future, but hey. at least as of today, we're finally trying. at least as of today we finally

got points on the board. and 1.2 trillion dollars is a lot of freaking money. and it's going to be a big deal in terms of the impact that has an all 50 states. repairing, modernizing, expanding ports, and airports, and the electrical grid thank you. and water systems, and systems that support the widespread use of electric vehicles, and transit of all kinds. and rail, and roads, and bridges, and yes this thing was bipartisan. some of the 13 republican members of the house, and the 19 members of the senate who voted for this thing, were on hand today for the photo op with the president finally signed it. one republican senator, rob portman, who is not running for reelection, even dared to say a few words in support of what this moment means. >> i've heard president biden say that this infrastructure bill will be signed today, is going to have a positive impact on every single american, and

that's true, this is true today, it will be true for decades to come. and i want to congratulate everyone gathered here today, for the role you played. in making this possible. this is what can happen, when republicans and democrats decide to work together. to get something done. we've got a major bridge in my hometown, that's also a major bottleneck. desperately need of replacing. we've been trying to do it for 25 years. but we haven't been able to pull together the funding and figure out how to do it. this new law gives us the tools we need to fix that bridge. in the same is true for major projects all around the country. that's why you see some of my colleagues here, from every region of the country, because they know this is going to help, to create more economic efficiency, more productivity, and maybe less -- this long term investment in our nation's capital assets,

will grow the economy, because of that efficiency and productivity, it will create hundreds of thousands of new jobs, it will make us more competitive. against countries like china, who are investing heavily in infrastructure, much more than we have been. >> republican senator rob portman. and then president biden went from that ceremony, we are even a sitting republican senator, praised how much our system is delivering now for our people in a practical bipartisan way, so that among other things we can be more competitive against china. china he went from that ceremony, where this action was praised by a member of the opposite party, he went from that ceremony to go pound his chest a little bit on a zoom call with president xi of china. hey man how is your? day i spent mind signing off on 1.2 chilean dollars worth of fixing things up around here. sore economy can kick your butt. and so i can show off to you and everyone, what democracy looks like. a free country, of diverse

people, with a diverse aim, and healthy political opposition morales. using representational government. to deliver something that helps us all. weird right? it's amazing what democracy can do. if you're wondering why things seems a little frenetic in the trump week of american politics, it may be that because this achievement by biden, particularly because it's bipartisan, it's hitting some people right in the buttons. at trump's inaugural address, you might remember, that he made all sorts of promises. on infrastructure. he said america's infrastructure has fallen into disrepair and decay. we will build new roads, and highways, and bridges, and airports, and tunnels, and railways. all across our wonderful nation. he didn't do any of that. none of that happened. even though the trump administration kept declaring infrastructure week over and over again, until it became a laugh out loud joke. today, one of the men who wrote

that inaugural speech for trump, one time trump white house advisor steve bannon, he was back in federal court, today on his latest round of criminal charges. today president trump is raging from the sidelines, threatening any republican who voted for the infrastructure bill. but lots of them did. and the legislation is very popular with the american people. biden got it done, with bipartisan support, in his first year in office. trump had four years to do, including two years with complete republican control of government, and he never even made a realistic triad. let alone got anything at all done. this is a day, that joe biden has been waiting for for a long time, both in terms of the practical impacts of what it means, also because of the political win that this represents, also because of his larger vision, for the purpose of his presidency, for the purpose of american governance, in this time in world history.

whereas he said, there's a lot of countries in the world trying to decide if they'll stick with democracy, or whether they're shift over to the autocratic very efficient way of doing things. how is that argument holding up overall? in president biden's own, terms the reason to get stuff like this done is because it's good for the country, good for the economy, good for our quality of life, good for our quality of work, it's all good. but he has also in fantasy and repeatedly argued that this is about showing off for the world, what we can do. that we need to put winds on the board for team democracy. to show that democracy is a better form of government than the rushes and china's of the world are offering, how are we doing on this front? is he right on that argument? that governing winds strike a blow? 14 d? for the democracies of the world? today an apple bomb rides at the atlantic, with admirable

but somewhat dispiriting bluntness and revenues, the headline there. the bad guys are winning. quote, if the 20th century was the story of slow uneven progress toward the victory of liberal democracy over other ideologies, communism, fashion -ism, the 21st century, so far a story of the reverse. she writes about how the anti-democratic attack receives in the world increasingly like to work together, now she says quote, the corrupt state controlled companies in dictatorship do business with the corrupt state controlled companies in another. the police in one can arm equip and train the police in another, the propagandists, share resources. the troll farms that promote one dictators propaganda, can be used to promote the propaganda of another. they also share themes, the propagandist. pounding home the same message about the weakness of democracy, and the evil of america. the sensuality of democracy to

american foreign policy has been declining for many years, and about the same, pace as the decline of respect for democracy in america itself. the trump presidency she writes, was a four-year display of contempt, not just really american political process, but for america's historical democratic allies, who he singled out for abuse. the president described the british german leaders, as losers, the canadian prime minister is dishonest and weak. willie cozied up to the audio crowds who he felt more comfortable. the turkish president, the russian president, the saudi ruling family. the north korean dictator among them. no wonder we felt more comfortable among, them he shares their ethos nose questions asked for many years. 2008, the russian oligarch dimitri -- page from $95 million more than trace what trump had paid for years earlier for a house in palm beach that no one seemed to, in 2012 trump put his name on a building and azerbaijan, owned by a company with a parent links to ivan's

revolutionary guard. he feels perfectly at home and intimacy ink, and he accelerated the erosion of the rules and norms that is allowed him to take root in america. which is probably the right time in that argument, for me to note, that as president biden was citing into law the bipartisan more than a trillion dollar infrastructure bill, that trump campaigned on in every man tried to get. as that was happening today, not only was steve bannon showing up in federal court, for refusing to testify to congress about his role in the effort to overturn the election. former president trump himself today apparently moved towards sale of his trumpet telling washington d.c.. the hotel through which he was paid quite a lot of money by foreign governments and other seeking favors from his administration, while he was president, now that he's no longer president, it's presumably no longer as convenient as a defective, it's apparently on the market. the head of career, the government ethics watchdog today said it makes sense that former president trump would be

selling the hotel now, quote now that he's out of office, and the grift has dried up. corruption and our top receiver, corruption and authoritarianism. they always go together. and if you think about, it it makes sense. what do you need in order to benefit corruptly, from the spoils of government power? you need strength, and power itself, to prevail over the rule of law. you need, favoritism. and impunity. for those in control. it's about impunity and taking things by force. the government's power, used to enrich and benefit those who run, it instead of benefiting the country and its people. through representational democracy that actually mean something. but moving away, from a pro attack received dictator coddling flagrantly corrupt,

anti rule of law administration towards something else, that's not the same as beating back rising authoritarianism in autocracy in the world. it does mean resisting the pull of it here at home, but how do we achieve this sort of vision that president biden has been talking about? how do we use the power of our democracy, the power of our example as a democracy, to win larger scale battles. and what really does seem a rising tide in a seemingly invincible tide of authoritarianism and autocracy, around the world. and on every continent. if biden is committed to this, how does he use days like today accomplishments like this, to show off democracy? and thereby pushback, here's an applebaum's conclusion today at the atlantic. she says, quote nature pours a vacuum, so it is geopolitics. if america uses the promotion

of democracy from its foreign policy, if it sees churches and just -- and democratic movements, then autocracy's will quickly take our place, as sources of influence, sources of funding, sources of ideas, if americans failed to fight the habits and practices of autocracy abroad, we will encounter them a home. indeed they are already here. joining us now is an apple bomb. she's a stop writer at the atlantic. she's most released and leave the twilight of democracy, the seductive were evolve territory it is a. miss applebaum it's real pleasure to have this time. with you thanks for having me. >> so, in this fight what, do you think of president biden's contention, in the fight that you have done so much to document and have argued for so elegantly, in terms of rising authoritarianism, the poll of authoritarianism, the poll of autocracy as you describe it. is president biden right in your estimation, that it

matters how we govern here at home? that the power of our example, the ability of democracy to deliver, makes a difference? >> he's absolutely right. i wrote a piece about autocracy, i wrote about foreign country, so i wrote about china, iran, venezuela, belarus. but really, one of the points of the article was that one of the main things that we can do to push back against these autocracies is to heal our system at home. it's actually the same battle, so making a martyr american democracy work, means that we make american democracy work better for our allies. we said a better example. eradicating cryptography at home, so making it harder for example, for people to buy anonymous companies, to buy apartments interim buildings, so that they're effectively paying bribes to the president while he's president. eliminating the kind of laws that make that possible. that's fighting against anti-democratic action at home,

and it's also fighting against that broad because many of those anonymous companies represent foreign leaders, foreign cryptic reps. the same is true with finding ways to deal with and push back against waves of disinformation. you know, there isn't really a difference anymore between attacked his system russians used, and the tactics that would be authoritarian to use here in america. so, understanding what the problem is here at home is going to help us fight it abroad, but also defining it abroad will help us at home. i think this is really one story. and it's really important that biden understands that, it's also important that he takes the next steps to make that really, put it really at the mirror center a foreign policy. >> we're in this unusual moment right now, where the former presidents campaign manager, who was a white house senior adviser, was back in court on yet more criminal charges today. in this case it's related to

resistance to testifying to congress about the role in the january 6th attack on the capitol. we've also got the former president himself facing multiple criminal inquiries, in georgia, in new york, and potentially other jurisdictions as well. this is a very unusual thing for us as a country, and i feel like a lot of fair minded people, including people who appreciate your type of analysis about these dynamics with i think worry about us moving into this new place. where in former officials, former politicians, do have to face potential criminal accountability for what they have done. i don't think people are concerned about that because they don't think of people like pennant and trump committed crimes but they're worried that if we become a country that the prosecutes former political figures and leaders, that's a different type of slide towards the way that other countries that are not democracies have tribe handled transfers of power.

i want to get your reflections on that. >> look, the french president has recently been indicted. a brazilian president went to jail. this is not something that i actually all that unusual in other democracies, even in other healthy democracies. former officials even former high leaders have been put forth -- and sentenced. and actually you made a point in your monologue, that i think is really really important, which is the, profound link between autocracy and corruption. because one of the things that autocrats do is they push back against and a buddy who can hold them accountable, whether that's the media, whether that's the courts, sometimes whether it's prosecutor, inspector generals, whichever institutions it is in the civil service or in the legal system, they push back, they mocked them, they make fun of them, they take away their power. precisely because they would like to get away with breaking the law themselves. and, there are simultaneously

undermining democracy and they're also simultaneously undermining the rule of law, and it's not an accident that those two things go together and pushing back against those practices, for saying even the highest leaders, even our presidents, even our former senators, even former members of cabinets, forcing them to face the consequences just like other people's part of what it means to be a democracy. >> as president biden speaks tonight with the chinese president, one of the things you look forward to in your piece today, the atlantic, is the fact that president biden is planning to convene a sort of summit of democracy's early next month. we don't exactly know what that means but he's talked about the idea that democracies of the world should work together towards protecting democratic, towards protecting democracy's, protecting dramatic democratic ideals, and the things that make took mockery possible all

over the world. it was hard for me to sort of read between the lines in the way you wrote about -- cynical about that or optimistic about it. it strikes me at least a new idea for an american president to be convening that as an american democratic summit, and asking other countries to join with us. >> no, i'm not cynical. i don't think it's the wrong idea. i worry that it won't go far enough in fast enough, and one of the other problems that we have now, and you've also got hinted to that, is that where is once upon a time the dissidents of venezuela were just up against their own dictator. or the dissidents of belarus, we're just fighting one man and one system. now, the autocracies of the world really are interlinked. they do help one another, they come to one another's aide, you know, the president of belarus who's a really vicious tyrant is kept in power by the

president of russia, china, by the friendship with the cubans who speak out his to behalf of the un. this is now a network group of people interestingly, totally nonideological, so they're bureaucrats and communists and nationalists, who all work together now in very -- in very common ways. partly because they all share the same interest which is staying in power and getting rich. to fight back against this, we may very well need new kinds of democratic institutions. you know, some of the old inches to shuns are not fit for purpose anymore. our way of reacting in a kind of surprise when rules are broken once again, when the russians murder somebody in london, or whether the bill or russians hijack a plane out of the sky. we have this kind of niger reaction and we call for sanctions. you know, it's really time to stop doing that and to have a much more systematic way of

thinking about these kinds of trends national crimes. thinking about how we're gonna react as a group of allies. so i'm really glad they're having the summit. i worry about it a little bit because it's an online summit, you know, there's been a lot of arguments about who should come, and what should be done there. i worry that it hasn't been thought through and that it could wind up being just a kind of announcement of principles and niceness, and how we all like each other. and really, we're past the moment for that. we're now at the moment where we need real changes for -- >> an apple bomb, staff writer at the atlantic, the author of twilight of democracy the seductive lure of the authoritarianism. a really important piece today in the atlantic about rising authoritarianism, -- given president biden's commitment to the idea of government -- against the rise of authoritarianism,. and apple bottom thank you so much for your time tonight.

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borders. while refusing to defend our own. and spent, trillions, and trillions of dollars overseas while america's infrastructure has fallen into disrepair and decay. we will build new roads and highways and bridges and airports and tunnels and railways all across our wonderful nation. yeah how the? how that go? that was the speech when he finished, this was his inaugural address, when he finished, former president george w. bush he reportedly leaned over to someone next to him and said and i quote, that

was some weird bleep. that weird bleep, the american carnage speech, was written by trump's two steeds, stephen miller and steve bannon. this was the speech about american carnage, he used the word carnage, that's nice. but i had that one practical substitute part about infrastructure. he promised he would be the president who is going to do a big infrastructure plan. that was going to be his signature policy. as you may have noticed, he never did, it never did anything at all about the subjects. it became a running joke during his presidency. that the trump white house was constantly declaring that it was infrastructure week. but they never actually did anything on the subjects at, all today president biden actually did, he signed into law the biggest investment decades and roads and bridges and other infrastructure. meanwhile, one of the authors of the trump inaugural speech, steve bannon, was at courts and a turning himself in on criminal charges. he'll be a raid thursday morning on two counts of criminal contempt of congress, for failing to respond to a

subpoena and a deposition order for the january 6th investigation. someone helpfully showed up for bandits appearance today with a sinus said, coup plotter. just in case you need some quick cliffsnotes on why steve bannon is of interest to the january six investigation. coop water. from legal representation in this matter steve bannon has chosen, this lawyer. his name is david showroom. if he looks familiar, you might recognize him from recent history, this is him representing donald trump, and trump's second impeachment trial. trump was inevitably acquitted by the republican, senate thanks mitch mcconnell, but a majority of, senators including seven republicans did vote to convict. tim trump's defense lawyers got him the most bipartisan senate vote to convict a president in american history. david show and also represented trump ally roger stone, stone was charged with seven felony counts, of lying to congress,

obstruction, witness tampering in the witness and -- he was convicted on all seven of those felony counts, that did not work out great. even if the lid did later get a trump parted. david was also taking on the case of convicted child sex trafficker jeffrey abstain, until epstein killed himself in prison. steve bannon's new lawyer has quite the track record, it's one thing to know as this case goes forward, the other thing to watch, though is how aggressive it appears steve bannon is planning to be in this manner. he told reporters today he's going on offense. against the january six investigation, and he's going to take down the biden regime. i'm in easy to say that on day one, it does raise interesting questions, in terms of how the january six investigation is going to handle not just this witness, one willing to defy subpoenas and all the rest, of it but one who morales has decided he's going to declare war on the investigation from the courthouse steps today. biden, bannon trying to string

this out and delay it as much as possible, him also being super aggressive about fighting back against this thing. what is that mean for the january six investigation? part of the issue about prosecuting bannon's to get him to comply with the committee's subpoena, as what's the phrase, coup plotter. but the other part of it, is to demonstrate to other people who might be considering defying subpoenas, resisting the investigative tools of the investigation, that they ought to go along with it because they might get prosecuted like bannon. if bannon does everything in his power to turn this into a circus and to declare his own personal war on the investigation, does that pose a threat to the investigation and its goals. i have just the person to ask. stay with us. e person to ask. stay with us

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bannon, surrendered her itself to federal authorities. he did so after being indicted on two counts of contempt of

congress for refusing to answer questions or produce documents to the january 6th investigation. now as usual mr. bannon did his best to make a circus scene outside the courthouse, inside he and his lawyers seem focused on dragging the legal fight out as long as possible. but, here's the other thing going on in the background, the same day by an indictment was announced on friday, we learned at the same time the trump white house chief of staff mark meadows was also a no-show for his subpoenaed appearance before the january six investigation. presumably, the host the hope of those investigating the -- would encourage mark meadows and anybody else to rethink any decision to defy those subpoenas from the investigation. if that doesn't work though, if that desired effect is not achieved, congressman adam shift predicted over the weekend that the committee would quote move quickly, to also hold trump white house chief of staff mark meadows in contempt of congress. should we expect that more indictments are coming. joining us now is california

congressman adam shift, he's chairman of the intelligence committee he's also serving on the investigation into the january 6th attack. thanks very much for joining us, it's nice to see you. >> good to see you. i >> it was not much of a surprise given what we know about his turn through public life, that mr. bannon was very pugnacious outside the courtroom today, say that he was going to take down the biden regime. that's what he works on every day, basically declared war on the january 6th investigation. that sort of bluster from him, again, not surprising, it does appear strategically though, that hideous counselor going to try to do everything in their power to slow down the proceedings against him and drag them out. is that what you and your fellow members of congress on this committee, that's conducting the investigation, is that what you are expecting? i >> yes. in the sense that when steve bannon decided he was going to essentially ignore the law, ignore the committee's subpoena, that he wanted to make a political issue out of this, he wanted to delay and drag it out

as long as possible. once again prove his loyalty to for the former president. but look, he at four years here in which he was given the impression, apparently, that he was above the law. he was brought into the congress before our committee, when it was chaired by republican, refused to answer questions during the russian investigation. republicans refused to hold him accountable and then later he was indicted for scaling money from trump supporters to build a wall of mel of that mexico was supposed to pay for, and of course didn't. and trump pardon him. so no wonder he feels like he's above the law. but that's run straight into a justice department who no longer under bill barr, but one that is devoted to equal application of the law. and, i'm glad to see that that is the view of the justice department, it is so important. >> and terms of mr. meadows and whether or not he is going to fight himself ultimately to be in the same predict own demand as mr. bannon. are there differences in the

circumstances for these two witnesses? have they handled the request from the committee differently? is bannon defying the committees authority, the investigations authority, in a way that's more serious than what's happening with mr. meadows? or, are they essentially taking the same strategy and therefore mr. maddow show to expect the same kind of treatment. even potentially by the justice department. >> well, they've taken the most significant step in identical fashion, that is, they refused to even show up. and there are broad crowded glorious of questions for both of these men that don't go for example, to any communications between them and donald trump. there were communications between, for example, steve bannon and members of congress. between steve bannon and the planners of the january 6th rally on the wall. none of that is even conceivably covered by any kind of privilege. so, in that sense, both men have the same fundamental position, weak position that is, they simply fail to show. up and there's no right to do so. there are differences in the

sense that, meadows was a current white house staff member, steve bannon hadn't been in the white house in years. so there are differences, but ultimately those differences don't affect the fact that there is no immunity to simply say, i ain't showing up. and that's probably the most significant factor when the committee decides what's step is next. >> let me also ask you about a recent wrote revelation about what happened on and leading up to january six, that has been published in abc news reporter jonathan quarrels new book, which has yet to come out, but is apparently a jackpot of news. even before it gets formally published. the latest revelation for mr. carles reporting is that there was yet another memo, i guess we would call it, another legal issue, argument, put to the vice president pence and his staff, essentially directing him to overturn the election results, to keep president trump in power even though he had lost the election. we know about one of those from

john eastman, who's been subpoenaed by the committee, we know of another by mr. mcentee, who is working in the white house, who made that sort of argument to mr. pence. but now, a trump campaign lawyer, jen ellis, apparently also made this sort of argument, put this sort of pressure on vice president pence, telling him, giving him an instruction manual to overturn the election results and keep trump in power. were you and the other members of the committee previously aware of that? or is that news to you, the way it was news to all of us when mr. carl wrote his book? >> you know, i can't go into specifics about we we knew and when we knew it, but i can say that we have learned a lot from very good investigative journalism. and that is supplemented what we know. and it's helpless for many of our questions -- and a good choice of witnesses. so these kind of reports that are being republish now can be really useful to us and our investigators. and it just shows how much

there is too exposed to the public, for those that say don't we know everything already, the answer is no. there's so much we don't know about what went into the pressure, campaign of the price president, to try to con him -- ignore his constitutional duty. no, we want to know what kind of internal communication and discussions there were about the bogus nature of these legal arguments, to show the woefulness of this efforts in a unconstitutional and corrupt way to overturn our elections. if we're gonna protect the country, going forward, all of this has to be exposed to the light of day. i >> congressman adam shift, chairman of the intelligence committee, member of the january 6th investigation, congressman thank you so much for your time tonight, it's good to have you here. >> thank you. >> all right, we'll be right back, stay with us. >> all right, we'll be right back, stay with us

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on your radar and recognizing that this might become a new big deal very quickly. this was the head of the national guard and oklahoma, last month, doing that kind of thing that leaders are supposed to do in a pandemic. it's a major general mark thompson, get it very publicly getting vaccinated, using his position and his influence to show how easy it is. he says in this post, happy to get the booster shot, five minute process, well done. that was just last month, now he has been fired, just last week he was very suddenly canned by oklahoma's republican governor. the general says he only found that out, found out through social media that he had been replaced. oklahoma republican governor interesting lee, last year was the first governor in the country to contract covid. last week, he gave the head of the oklahoma national guard of the boot with no explanation as to why. with now, we've got a strong hint as to what was going on there.

because on the new guy's first day, the person who the oklahoma governor has newly appointed to head up the oklahoma national guard after a full deal guy, on his first day on the job, he made his first act on the job to send out of meadow saying that member of the oklahoma national guard don't have to get vaccinated. quote, i hereby order that no oklahoma guardsman be required to take the covid-19 vaccine, notwithstanding any other federal requirement. now, the word notwithstanding is doing a lot of work in that sentence. president biden's commander in chief of the united states military, he has ordered that all members of the united states military need to be vaccinated for covid-19, just as they need to be vaccinated for all sorts of things. the members of the oklahoma national guard, national guard and all the states, their members of the u.s. military, so that applies to them. saying, while we're in oklahoma, so we don't believe it applies to us. that doesn't work in federal

law and civilian life, it really doesn't work in the united states military. well today, the department of defense did not mince words about how the -- vaccination status of the whole oklahoma national guardsman is not the states call, pentagon spokesman saying quote, the secretary of defense has the authority to require these vaccines for all members of the force, including the national guard. quote it is a lawful order. so, again, i want to put this on your radar because this may become a big deal and a worrying deal very quickly. how does this get resolved? both sides are armed, right? if both the oklahoma national guard and the defense department refused to back down on this, how does this result? and what happens after that? especially when all the other republican governors around the country decide they are going to do this, and defy lawful u.s. military orders. how does that resolve? do we have any has a history with that in this country? watch this space, this is going to get messy. s goin to get messy to get messy

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tonight. today the prosecution and defense both gave their closing arguments, in the trial of kyle rittenhouse. who's accused of murdering two men and winning another. during the protests over the police shooting of an unarmed black man, named jacob blake, in kenosha wisconsin last year. the jury deliberation in that case, now the closing arguments of happened, jerry deliberation in the case starts tomorrow morning at 9 am central 10 am eastern. ahead of a potential verdict in

that, cases would consist governor is already put several hundred wisconsin national guard troops on standby. to respond to any potential community unrest that could result from the verdict. we do not know how long the jury is expected to deliberate, let alone what they are going to ultimately conclude. be aware, we could have a verdict in that case as soon as tomorrow. that's going to do it for us for now. see you again tomorrow night. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening lawrence. , >> hydrogen will be joined by white house chief of staff in a moment. we're also be joined later in the hour by pramila jayapal. and we now know that when congresswoman jayapal appears on the rachel maddow show, joe biden watches. he watches, and he calls her. and tells her how great she was, talking to rachel. that has now been reported, that's one of the phone calls she has gotten from president biden. >>