to see what happened. did you? >> i did not, mr. albenzi was pointing down the road. he need to go that way, something happened and tried to ask him to see what was happening. what happened. >> something had happened? >> something has happened. >> all right, so at this point right here, where he's running, you're still yelling at him stop, i want to talk to you, stop. >> no, ma'am. once i watched him run and pull alongside again is when i engaged with him again. >> going all the way down burrford? >> no, ma'am, another 100 feet, maybe 200 feet. there's a wooded area right

where i spoke to him again. >> all right, so let's take a look at this. >> may i? >> which the exhibit number -- what we're looking at here is going to be state's exhibit 300. so taking a look at the blown up board of state's exhibit 300. i'm going to publish it up here so we can see it.

>> are you able to see that on your screen? >> yes, ma'am. >> so at the brian house, you said you went down here to maybe a wooded area. is it fair to say that that wooded area is right here? >> yes, it's right at the corner of that house or lot right there, the last open area. >> right here? >> no, ma'am, right there. >> here? >> yes. >> so you chased him down here, and at this point in time, you cut him off? >> no, ma'am, i'm alongside him and ask him to stop, i want to talk to him and after i asked, i want to talk to you, hey, hold on a second, is when he finally stopped and okay, we can talk. we can see what's going on. this time i said "the cops are

coming" after he didn't respond to me or talk to me. i said the police are coming, stay right here. that's when he turn and ran the other direction. >> you agree with me when i say that you never, ever told the glenn county police department or any written statement that you said to mr. arbery "the police are coming." >> i don't know if i did or not. if that's not on there, then i didn't say it, but i could have missed it, from everything that was happening, write it down two hours later, i might have missed it but the assumption they knew that, because i was still under the impression that my dad has called the police, so i wanted the person to know the cops are coming. >> so talking about that, i'm

going to have you take a look at page number nine again, that last paragraph. so in your statement to detective nohilly, only a couple hours after the homicide of ahmaud arbery, you basically say, he goes around the corner, comes back. something's not right here. i tell him to stop. tell him to stop, grabbed the gun out of the truck. i said hey, stop, stop, stop. he runs back. me and this we call, you call 911 yet? find my phone, call, give it to my dad, say call the cops, you know, let's get the cops. only after you grabbed your shotgun out of your truck you said let's call the cops and hand the phone to your dad to call the cops. >> that's when i found out he did not call the police, i realized he has not called the

police. >> also on page nine, you never indicated that mr. arbery actually stopped long enough for you to have a conversation with him, is that correct, at the top of page nine? >> yes, i do. i said he's running. he won't stop. i said that's him. stop right there, stop where you're at. all call the cops, you know. i told him that i called the cops. there he is. he starts acting funny, and then he takes off running, so he was stopped, if he takes off running, he was stopped at that

point. >> do you remember yesterday telling this jury that's what you said to your dad, call the cops, you know, there he is. do you remember telling the jury just yesterday that's what you said to your dad, call the cops, there he is. he starts acting funny, he takes off running. >> i believe i said had you called the cops yet and then on this here, where i mentioned to the police in the interview, and reading this and knowing how i was all over the place when i was giving that statement, this is what i was talking about. this is what i believe i was talking about. >> but you agree, nowhere in here do you say mr. arbery actually stopped. you said stop right there, stop where you're at, and he takes off running. >> he takes off running. >> um-hum, so nowhere do you indicate to the detective that he stopped long enough for to you say "the police are on their way" and that's yes took off running, nowhere in here and nowhere in your statement is

that indicated. >> in those terms, saying it in that verbatim, i did not, but looking at this, and how i was still under stress, still under the impact of what happened a couple hours after this, just two hours, after the shooting, seeing how i was talking, under stress, nervous, scared. i know what i was talking about here and that's what i was talking about. call the cops, you know. stop where you're at. call the cops. i'm probably choppy trying to talk to him being nervous and just saying that i was saying this to mr. arbery, and then he takes off running. if you're running, i'm not saying continue running. he takes off running. i think that's what i was talking about there. >> what were you nervous about, while giving this statement? >> i just killed a man. i had blood on me still. it was the most traumatic event of my life.

i was scared to death. i mean, it was the most dramatic event of my life. i don't know anybody who wouldn't be scared or stressed or terrified or anything. i mean, it was horrible. >> i'm talking about giving your statement two hours later at a police station. you were nervous because you thought you were going to jail, right? >> no. i was, i gave them my statement. >> you're telling you don't think you're going to jail? >> i was going through an investigation, following the investigation. >> so you saw officer duggins body cam. >> yes, ma'am. >> you were standing behind the officer while all that went on, right? >> i guess, yes, ma'am. >> so you just shot mr. arbery three times to a shotgun, correct? >> correct. >> he's dead on the scene, correct? >> correct. >> he's unarmed. correct? >> he was.

>> all right, and your father came up to you and grabbed you by the shoulders and went "you had no choice. you had no choice." you saw that? >> yes. >> all right. you're covered in mr. arbery's blood. you go down to the police station, correct? >> correct. >> let's keep going. >> okay. and at that point, you're in the safety of the police department giving your statement, correct? >> yes. >> you've got all the time in the world, correct? >> yes. >> and detective nohilly hasn't threatened you. >> no. >> hasn't forced to you make a statement. >> he did not. >> and didn't promise you

anything nor did he get to you make a statement. >> looking for the quote. >> he did not. >> but you're telling this jury that you're all confused and you can't get the facts straight as you're telling the police about why it was you shot and killed a man. >> i was trying with my best ability but like i said, under the circumstances of going through a traumatic event, this is the most traumatic event that i've ever been through in my life. i don't know how -- i've never been through a situation like that so the reaction, trying to be as factual and detailed as i could, and then look at the

transcript as scattered as it was, i tried as best i could. this is what you got. i tried and this is what happened. >> so fair to say you never told detective nohilly nor wrote down in your written statement that you told mr. arbery that the police are on their way. >> it seems that i attempted to say it in these words here. >> and at that point, mr. arbery turns around and runs back down burrford to get away from you, c correct? >> that's correct. >> at this point in time, he's running away from you. he has not threatened you? >> no. >> hasn't pulled out a gun? >> no, ma'am. >> hasn't pulled out a knife? >> he did not. >> still arms at his sides. >> that's correct. >> and he's trying to get away from you? >> and i was letting him run away, yes, ma'am. >> you were letting him run away?

>> that's correct. >> wasn't it your intention to go around the block and cut him off on the other side? >> to head him off and see where he's located, that was my intention, yes, ma'am. >> but you could have stopped right there and not done anything, right? >> yes, but immediately after is when i saw his interaction with the black truck, and realized that there is something to my suspicions here, and i would like to see where he is at, when the cops come, which i assume the police were on the way, that i would be able to tell him where he's at, if they haven't located him at that point. >> so you're telling the jury the whole intention was to follow mr. arbery, keep an eye on him and to just tell the cops there he is? >> at this point, yes, ma'am.

>> now, it's true that your father, while in the truck with you, going down burrford towards that end was yelling at you "cut him off, cut him off, cut him off," right? >> he was talking to me. i know he was saying "there he is, that's the guy." after that, i'm not exactly sure what he said. >> at this point you're still yelling at mr. arbery to stop? >> i was not yelling at him at burrford, no, ma'am. >> at the end of burrford you and your dad got out of the pickup truck. >> he ran down burrford, when he was away, when he was not a threat, if he wanted to be a threat, he was going past that. i got out of the truck, yes,

ma'am, he turn, running away is when i got out of the vehicle. >> why in the world would mr. arbery be a threat to you? >> because when i asked him what was going on and recognized that it was the guy that i saw and mr. albenzi pointing and everything going down and realizing it is him and how he reacted when i shined the lights on him at the 11th, he acted like he did not want to be -- he was obviously caught sneaking through the front yard. he was obviously where he wasn't supposed to be, where he had been several times and reaches into his pants, and he has a gun, and i took that as a threatening gesture, walked in the house. it's the same guy on the 23rd that i have just pulled up to that turned out my father was correct, people pointed down the road, same scene 12 days prior, yes there's a possibility that he may be armed with that gesture but he didn't show me

that and started running down the road. i was no longer under a threat, if there was to be one, so i got out of the vehicle after my father got out of the vehicle to see what was going on and watch him. >> so when you first pulled up to him, very first time, you confirmed it was him, right? >> yes, ma'am. >> all right. you testified under oath, "i'm not going to chase or investigate someone who is armed." right? >> that's correct. >> and yet you want this jury to believe now that he was a threat to you, and that you perceived him as a threat yet you continued to chase him down burrford. >> i didn't know if he was a threat or not. he never reached in his pockets and i wanted to see what was happening. i figured i could talk to him at this point or get up to him on the second point. >> but had he demonstrated not once, twice, but three times he did not want to talk to you?

>> which when -- when i stopped at burrford? >> right. you pulled up to him once. doesn't want to talk to you. you back up, doesn't want to talk to you. you pull down burrford, your dad is yelling "cut him off." he doesn't want to talk to you. that's three times he demonstrated he does not want to talk to you? >> correct. >> he also demonstrated he's no threat. he hasn't pulled out a gun. >> that's correct. >> he hasn't said one word to you. >> he has not. >> he's not threatened you in any way verbally or physically? >> no, ma'am. >> no knives? >> no knives. >> all right. he's not swearing at you, using profanity, is he? >> he didn't talk. >> so at this point, you get out of the truck, correct? >> that's correct. >> and you get out with your shotgun. >> no, i got out when my father got out in the back and my shotgun slipped and was in the floor board, where my feet were all over it, once i'm out of the vehicle, it was safe.

i'm not going to reach, wasn't going to grab it while mr. arbery was there, no reason for it. he's running off, i'm on the side of the truck. at that point i grab the shotgun out of the floor board and put it back on the seat. >> your dad gets out with his .357 magnum. correct? >> i didn't know he had it on him. i knew he had it, didn't see it but he didn't have it in i had his hand. >> he didn't have it in his hand when he ran down the road toward mr. arbery? >> he didn't run down the road to mr. arbery. >> so

>> you see mr. bryan turn up with his black truck to run mr. arbery off the road? >> after i put the shotgun back to the seat when it was on the floor board and watching dad or talking to dad or trying to figure out what was going on, i looked back down the road. i don't know mr. brian. i had seen him with the first encounter with mr. arbery. my assumption, from what i saw that he came from satilla, so the vehicle was write thought was the end of the road more than likely seen the video the other day where the tree was closest to burrford, towards the end almost on the road. i'm certain that's where i saw the encounter with them and it didn't look like he was running off the road.

it looked like arbery went to the left side and then to the right and went back to the left. looked like he was engaging with that vehicle. >> so you are all the way down there and they are all the way down here when you look at them? >> yes, ma'am. >> and you want this jury to believe you thought mr. arbery was the one engaging in this black vehicle, not that the black vehicle was trying to hit him or run him off the road? >> i want to object to the form of the question "you want this jury to believe." i think that's an improper form. you can ask him questions and answer but to insinuate he has some motive for the jury to

believe is improper. >> it's cross-examination. go ahead. >> thank you. so you want this jury to believe that it's mr. arbery who is the aggressor with the black truck, not that the black truck is the one trying to run him off the road to help you? >> i didn't see the truck trying to run him off the road, but i saw him come down there, a vehicle looked to be at a stop and mr. arbery was engaging the vehicle. >> and mr. arbery was able to get away from the black vehicle? >> he ran past the vehicle. >> your dad wanted to go down there to see what was happening? >> that's correct. >> you wanted to go around and cut him off? >> no, ma'am. i wanted to get around and see where he was at, not to cut him off. not the way you're saying cut him off. i wanted to see where he was at to let the police know he was coming.

>> i'll have you look at page 24, middle of the page. sorry, back up to page 23, please. take a look at page 23. so line 16. "so he turned and went back down this road. dad's like hey, go down there. i said i'm not going through that. i'm not going back to him, and this is about the time the black

truck that was at the scene, that's when he tried to stop it." >> yes. >> all right, so here you're telling the police the black truck at the scene was trying to stop mr. arbery. >> that's what i believe, yes. >> that was right here in this corner, just on burrford, probably a house past this intersection, so i turned and went this way. >> correct. >> all right. and then you came down, came around, came down holmes drive, he was right there. i said good. probably we'll have a chance to stop him now. correct? >> yes. >> all right. and then the black truck is right there. i was over here. hey, stop, stop. well, he's running up the road, and i seen him coming. do you remember that? >> yes, ma'am. >> all right. so you came around holmes and you were a few houses down when you encountered mr. arbery and yelled at him once again, stop,

stop. is that right? >> i think i had it wrong on here. like i said once i was bouncing back and forth trying to explain everything that happened that i misspoke on there. i don't know where i would say to stop, stop. where was it i said stop? came down, came around, came down holmes drive, he was right there. i said good, we'll probably have a chance to stop him now. the black truck's right there. i was over here. stop, stop, while he was running down the road, i seen him coming. that was at the end of holmes. >> you notice how it says the investigator says which way is he running? you said he's coming up this way and where are you at, at this time? i came around and turned off this road. i was about, i'm not really sure how far i was, i was a few houses down. so you're a few houses down, he's asking you specifically, when did you say hey, stop,

stop. i was a few houses down, correct? >> on here, that's correct. >> you also got out of your truck at that time a few houses down on holmes drive, correct? >> on here is whey said but i don't believe that's what happened. i don't believe -- i believe i misspoke or had it wrong, had it mixed up to when i stopped at the end of holmes. >> all right. but you also wrote it down in your written statement. take a look at your written statement. about two-thirds of the way down. >> on page? >> two. so i decided to continue down burrford toward ellwood and take on to holmes to see if he would

be there. is that right? >> you see that line? >> yes. >> and then it said, you wrote, i made it halfway down and seeing the individual turn, and run back the way he came, then turn back toward me when the black gmc chevy turned onto the road. >> that's at the end of setilla. >> you said i got out of my truck and told him to stop, which he didn't. i got back into my truck and stopped just short of the stop sign on holmes facing satilla. you had stopped, got out of your truck, told him to stop, he didn't, got back in your truck and pulled down to satilla and holmes. >> that looking back after everything cooled off where i stopped and i don't recall if i got out or not. i think i had this mixed when i finally pulled up, both times, i stopped and got out.

i was saying when i stopped and saw mr. arbery and the black truck coming at me. we're on holmes just short of where the shooting occurred. i yelled stop at him and when i pulled up a couple more feet and decided to stay where i was at. that's what i was thinking about here. >> isn't it true at this point in time when you're a few houses down, holmes, you stop, you get out, you yelled stop, stop, that's when your father yelled at him, stop or i'll blow your fucking head off? >> i don't think so, no. >> you heard your father say this, yes? >> i don't think so i heard him say that, no. >> but you know that's what he told the police he said. >> in here in court is when i

heard, yes, ma'am. >> so at this point, you're coming down holmes and you see mr. arbery coming toward you. >> he was in the middle of a turn. he was turning from, he was on the right side of the road turning left in that apex is when i saw him there. the first time i saw him on holmes he was in the middle of the turn, turning back toward satilla and holmes. >> is that when the video picks up? >> i don't think so. >> so you're saying that you're coming down this way and he's running toward your truck. he's returning around and he runs back this way. you don't see the black truck at this point? >> no ma'am. >> he's running back toward you and you see the black truck

behind him? >> no. i came around the dogleg the black truck and mr. arbery were together. the black truck came off satilla and headed me toward holmes toward ellwood. >> you've made it all the way down here? >> he was turning, he was on the right side of the road turning left. when i saw him he turned and was outside around that dogleg and i continue, once i got to the dogleg is when i saw him and mr. -- the black vehicle coming my way. >> at that point, he's pinned between the two vehicles. >> he was. >> we get down to the end of

here, having passed mr. arbery and the black truck? >> no, i was at a stop and they passed me. i let mr. arbery run by and i let the vehicle pass me. i was stopped in the correct lane and saw them coming, and that was when mr. arbery in the black truck were, mr. arbery was running alongside the truck grabbing at the mirror and the door and that's when they split, when they were coming into my lane, when they split. mr. arbery on the passenger side and the black vehicle turned, went back into his lane and then was following mr. arbery as they went around that dogleg. >> in order for you to get from here to here with them behind you, you had to have passed mr. arbery and the black pickup truck, correct? >> that's when they passed me was back there, was toward

satilla, yes, ma'am. >> we'll take a 15-minute recess and then continue with the evidence in the case. thank you. >> all rise for the jury. >> good morning, i'm jose diaz-balart and we've been watching the trial of the three white men accused of killing ahmaud arbery in georgia. i apologize to you for some of the language that we've been hearing on this trial. it is what it is, and that's how trials are carried out in this country, and that kind of language unfortunately is something that we can't control, but that's what's going on right now. apparently there is a quick

15-minute break in the trial. one of the defendants, travis mcmichael, who fired the fatal shot, was back on the stand. you see him being cross-examined by the prosecution. is he going to sit back down? let's listen in. >> quarter of. >> thank you. ron allen is in brunswick, georgia and with me in new york danny cavallos, criminal attorney. this defendant will continue testimony, right, ron? >> reporter: the lawyer for william bryant said he is not going to testify as of this moment. we don't know about greg mcmichael. we don't know where this is going. we suspect mr. mcmichael on the stand will be there all day.

the prosecution was basically trying to get the jury to understand their point of view that mr. arbery never threatened mr. mcmichael, he didn't have a weapon, he said a number of times there was no contact, there was no response when travis mcmichael says he asked arbery questions during that chase we've seen so many times on the videotape. the prosecution is trying to make the case arbery was innocent, he was just running and that the mcmichaels had no reason to suspect him of a crime or stop him and detain him. travis mcmichael was trying to convince the jury in his answers apparently he was trying to deet sclat the system, he was calm and measured and different points along the way when the fatal encounter happened, he claimed arbery was the aggressor and attacked him and had to fire in self-defense. the other thing, jose, outside the courthouse there was a huge

gathering of supporters of the arbery family. amongst the crowd are countless numbers of black pastors. you'll remember that the defense has raised the objections a number of times to the presence of black pastors in the courtroom, saying that they are here only to influence the jury, something that sparked outrage from arbery's family, who has invited pastors like reverend jesse jackson and al sharpton to be with them during this time of grief and difficult time when they're trying to listen to all this testimony and relive and see the death of their son played out again and again. this is a rally, a gathering for support of the family. there's a march later on this afternoon. they're here to make the point to support and the judge is not going to restrict access to the courtroom, it is an open place

and a small base because of covid restrictions, only a few members of the public are able to get in there. preference is given to arbery's family and the people they want in the courtroom as well. just see an endless line of black clergy arriving to support the family and to say essentially to the defense that we are here, despite the fact you don't want us here. that is also taking shape as we expected cross-examination of travis mcmichael to continue after this recess. >> danny, let's talk about what we've been seeing here on msnbc. first, is it unusual to have a shooter as your first witness, if you're the defense? >> it's not that unusual. it's a strategy decision. it may be that the defense wanted to get this right out first fing this their own case and ask the critical question. were you in fear for your life

when you pulled the tricker. give the jury that first impression they'll carry throughout the defense's case. they could have called him at the end. it's a strategic decision how you order your witnesses. i suspect this is why they called him first to get him out in front of the jury after he's been essentially pillared by the prosecution as is normal the case for the first half of the trial. >> this prosecutor has been systematic and point by point, showing the many times that this defendant could have just let things go and it's clear he wasn't armed. he was jogging. what is it they're trying to establish in this point by point. where were you? where was he? was the black vehicle cutting him off? were you cutting him off.

what is the tactic? >> cross-examination stakes a stacatto type tone. if you notice, she's not really asking questions. she's making statements that the defendant has to rubber tramp at the end with a yes or a no. that is the nature of cross-examination. really it is the attorney testifying and not the witness. cross-examination is such a devastating tool that it's not allowed except on cross-examination. what you see here is the prosecution is the benefit of these defendants having given a lot of statements. they talk to the police immediately afterwards, they gave detailed statements. she has them all. she studied them in detail and now she's confronting them with each of those statements that they made. she's also walking through step by step all the moments and this is effective, all the moments they could have turned away and stopped pursuing ahmaud arbery. you could have stopped them. i could have. could you have stopped a minute later.

yes i could have. you didn't have to follow him. could you have stopped there. >> you saw he wasn't armed, he wasn't a threat to you, that was over and over again the point she brought up. >> she's trying to demonstrate whatever he may have testified about what he believed in the moment that arbery approached him allegedly he went to the fight and he went to the fight with the firearm and the person who was killed had nothing. that is what she's trying to bring out for the jury to come back. the defendant testifying saying i feared for my life. >> i was very interested when the prosecutor said do you want the jury to believe the defense attorney got up and said we object to the fact that you're stating that this person is trying to convince the jury one way or another. she shouldn't be asking it that way. the judge said overruled. why is it in that

cross-examination you're given so much leeway? >> because you don't have home field advantage. it's not your witness. you'll notice in cross-examination those two are not aligned. the witness will do everything they can to defeat you. when you're on direct, the defense calls their own client, everyone is trying to help each other. that's why you cannot use cross-examination on direct, that would be too much of an advantage. the reason the prosecution asks an adverse witness leading questions like that is because it's considered evening it out, it's parroting. you know this witness is going to do everything they can to gum up your examination. therefore you can use cross-examination and leading questions to lead him or her down a path. that's what she's doing. you notice her questions are just statements, they're just statements of facts. she ends up doing the testifying. the defendant is forced to either say yes or no. >> seems to clear there were

opportunities after opportunities for this thing to just end. they didn't have to continue following him. he kept running. there was no indication even by the defendant's statement that he believed that he was armed. he thought he wasn't, even though ten days before he had made some movement, but even back then he couldn't establish that he was armed. so what does the defense do with a case that has so much information out there, including the defendants talking to police with all kinds of details. >> here's what the defense wants the jury to think about. they want them to ignore everything that led up to the actual moments of the shooting and focus only on the moments that arbery supposedly approached and tried to take the gun, and the actual, whether or not it was reasonable that the defendant believed he was in danger. they want the jury to ignore the driving after arbery and chasing him down and trying to cut him off at the pass, all of that stuff.

they also want the jury to think about what happened in the neighborhood leading up to that, that there were alleged burglaries or alleged thefts out of cars so that the defendants had a good reason to be in fear for their safety. the prosecution as you pointed out is going to take him through all the contextual facts. you came out with the firearm. you made the decision to chase him and continued chasing him. you had so many opportunities to turn away and stop chasing this person and go away from the danger. the defense is caught in a conundrum. they believe this person was dangerous, right or wrong. if they believed he was dangerous, why go to the danger? you have a citizens arrest statute, you're allowed to do that but at the end, the prosecution wants the jury to think about it doesn't make sense if you perceived this person as a danger, why did you take the law in your own hands? call the police even though they're allowed to under citizens arest. >> there were moments when the

defendant believed that mr. arbery was not dangerous. he was running. i did not fear for any danger, but isn't that kind of an important issue for the jury, like wait, he didn't feel danger but he kept going after him. >> the prosecution started developing this team days ago by calling the owner of the house to establish that yes, we know arbery was in the house. other people were in this house under construction. this was not an apparent burglary because that requires the breaking, the entering, in order to commit some felony inside. this is just trespass at most and the way they'd like to frame it for the jury, these defendants took at best an alleged believed trespass in their neighborhood and reacted with deadly force, and that is one of the keys to self-defense, is that the force that you use must be reasonable in light of the force applied to you.

the prosecution is stressing to the jury whatever they believed arbery was up to, it was apparently at worst a trespass and other people were doing it and by the way, by the way, it was going into a house under construction, which i guarantee you've done and i know i've done. i've been guilty of the same trespass. >> stay with me. we'll take a quick break on msnbc. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports. "much more to discuss. the trial is on a 15-minute break. we'll be right back. to severe c. then i realized something was missing... ...me. my symptoms were keeping me from being there for her. so, i talked to my doctor and learned humira is the #1 prescribed biologic for people with crohn's disease. humira helps people achieve remission that can last. and the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief in as little as 4 weeks. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems,

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45 past the hour. any moment the trial of the three men accused of killing ahmaud arbery is set to resume. they're back. there's the judge. let's listen in. >> present, a lot of people are standing. >> judge, we're noticing juror number 12 is continuing to nod off. we would at this point move to excuse here. we don't think it's appropriate for a jury to sleep through direct and cross-examinations and we're very concerned that she's missing some evidence and it's important to both sides she listen to everything so we'd move to excuse her and place an alternate in her place.

>> sorry, i was just trying to compare i knew exactly where we were. we would join in that, yes. i don't have as good a vantage point of where we're sitting to see the jury most of the time, based on what the court has reported and what our counsel has reported. >> obviously i probably had a poor vantage point, i'm not complaining but i would feel constrained in that motion, that's why we have alternates. >> state objects. i've been up here cross-examining mr. mcmichael and turning and looking at the jurors. i have not noticed any one of them not paying attention at all. they seem to be paying very close attention to this

testimony. >> i have been watching 12. i will say there are moments where she appears tired. she has not slept through the evidence that i have been able to notice. it was brought to my attention yesterday, yesterday afternoon, i'm going to keep an eye on her this morning and just get some idea of what if any consistency there is with what's happening, based on that, the court will make decisions whether to inquire whether she missed any evidence and move from there. at this point, i'm not going to take the step of striking her. the court will effectively take the matter under advisement. i'll continue to watch the juror. obviously if there is, if it goes beyond where it is now with

her, i'll take appropriate measures and if i need to follow up further at the end of this morning, i'll do so. >> we'd also like to note two things before we start back up. after this examination of the witness began, my understanding is that the reverend jesse jackson in court, i think he's back there in the dark, putting that on the record, not going to reargue anything. i would also note that there is or was an individual walking about in the foyer outside the courtroom earlier today with a black sweatshirt saying "i support black pastors." given the black pastors support the conviction of our client, we would object to those slogans being outside in the foyer,

where witnesses are safe. not just an issue with the jurors who may or may not see them as they come in and out of the courtroom but now we have witnesses exposed to all this. again it raises questions. i noted it for the record. the court can decide with it what it will. >> it's all noted for the record, then. i can't speak to whatever may be happening outside the courtroom. there are procedures that the court is aware of that are in place, and something brought to my attention that is deviating from those procedures, then i'll go ahead and address that. i'll note that rev rand jackson is in the courtroom. beyond that, anything from the state before we proceed with the witness? >> no, judge. >> travis mcmichael?

>> greg mcmichael. >> no, your honor. >> witnesses are under oath. let's go get the family. we were hoping for this begin. i just want your professional opinion is it odd for an opinion to fixate on what is or is not sitting in the area there? is it odd for him to bring up t shirts, hoodies saying i support black pastors? >> it's actually not. in fairness, a common motion i would make would be to exclude

police officers from wearing their uniforms and sitting behind the prosecution. i'm not seeking to exclude the officers themselves. but them wearing their uniforms. that's an example of an exclusion a court will make. one they will not make is excludeing black pastors from the courtroom. let me say this. i understand the sentiment in that i might have tried to -- and i know reverend al. i've done a show. i would try to exclude him because he's, number one, influential, and number two, people trust in their opinions? . >> what does that have to do with the trial itself? >> i'm not asking you. what would that have to do with the trial itself? >> it could be seen as a celebrity endorsement if he's there clearly supporting the prosecution. i would try to make that motion, but be advised, i'm sure i would lose it. because the judge got it right. this is a public trial. people are allowed to be there. the reverend al has every right to be there just like anybody

else. only if he was disrupting the trial, could i have a real argument to exclude him. >> all right. thank you, danny. let's go back to the trial. >> all rise for the jury. >> be seated.

>> welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. we are ready to proceed with the evidence from the state. >> thank you. so mr. mcmichael, you've seen this video numerous times in court. is that right? >> yes, ma'am. >> at this point in time you can see that mr. arbery is well out in front of mr. bryan who is video taping this? >> that's correct. >> you're telling this jury at this point in time, both your truck is behind mr. arbery and mr. bryan's truck is behind mr. arbery? >> that is correct. >> and so he turns around and runs back toward your truck and mr. bryan's truck? >> from the video, yes.

>> isn't it true that the reason he turned around is he saw your truck coming at him down holmes? >> from that video there, i don't believe so, no, ma'am. >> isn't it true that you're coming back down holmes, and he sees the front of your truck, so he turns around and that you pass him as he's passing mr. bryan? >> no, ma'am. >> so for absolutely no reason whatsoever, ahmaud arbery who could have kept running up holmes to get away from both of these pickup truck that had been chasing him, impoes back toward to go toward both pickup trucks? >> objection. speculation. >> the reason he turns is speculation, sir. >> she's asking who -- >> rephrase the question? >> okay. >> your honor, i'm asking for the court to either sustain or -- >> sustained. she can rephrase it. >> thank you, judge.

>> the court is permitting her to ask open-ended question just like the defense would be permitted and was permitted to ask open-ended questions on cross. >> thank you. so when you assert your truck is behind mr. arbery, and we know mr. bryan's truck is behind mr. arbery, mr. arbery has the opportunity now to run up holmes. is that correct? >> yes. >> and yet, on the video we see him turn around, is that correct? >> that's correct. >> to run back toward the black pickup truck that had already tried to hit him four times. is that correct? >> i didn't see who tried to run him over. >> did you hear mr. bryan's statements in open court while you were sitting here? >> i did.

>> all right. >> and you know he told the police that on four separate occasions he tried to hit mr. arbery. you know that? >> -- your honor. >> sustained. rephrase that. >> i'll rephrase that. did you hear the officers testify to what mr. bryan had said? >> i heard the officers testify today, yes. >> and you heard that mr. bryan told the police that mr. arbery tried to get into his truck or grab his hand or whatever that was, on berford? >> yes. >> all right. and so at this point you're telling this jury, i want to make sure that the turning around. you don't know why mr. arbery turned around? >> i don't know why. >> but when he turned around, you're contending he's now running back toward both your truck and mr. bryan's truck?

>> yes. >> all right. i'm going to ask you about this whole thing about on holmes, mr. arbery's trying to attack a truck is what you said yesterday? >> yes, ma'am. >> you never told anyone that in any of your statements, did you? >> i did not. >> all right. and that's something you've now told this jury for the very first time. correct? >> yesterday, yes. >> all right. you never mentioned that he was running alongside the black truck in any of your statements? >> in the statements, no. >> all right. you never mentioned you were worried about the person in the black truck because you saw the person trying to attack his truck? >> can i refer to the notes? >> sure.

>> sure.

>> i just say he's running back to that truck. i did not say that he was attacking that vehicle in the statement. >> all right. let's go ahead and go to when you're parked at holmes and sitella. >> yes, ma'am. >> at that point during what we see here, mr. bryan, going up and turning around, mr. arbery had actually run to your white truck? >> yes. yes. he is -- he has ran to my white truck once already at this