take to get everybody rescreened? are we talking hours, minutes? it seems to me like it's going to be hours. >> the rescreening process and the determination by airport security that things can begin to move is going to take time. the faa's lifting of the ground stop probably -- may not have been coordinated. they're saying that as far as an air traffic control standpoint, they can move traffic in and out of atlanta. that does not mean that the airlines are going to be cleared to start boarding passengers and putting them on flights. that's going to take the approval of the airport authorities in atlanta. so, if they end up having to rescreen everybody, and i suspect they will, that's going to take hours because you're talking about thousands of people that are in the terminals and then once they're screened,

then which flights are still at the gate? where are they going to go? have they been canceled? where do they need the airplanes the most? that's what's going to determine what flights are flown, and obviously, they're going to do everything they can to move people out and be able to get things back to normal, but we're looking at probably through the weekend at an absolute minimum before atlanta's functioning at 100%. >> okay. john cox and jay blackman, guys, i'm handing things off right now. our coverage to yasmin vossoughian. she's in the chair so she's going to take it from here. thank you, everyone. alex, appreciate it. obviously we're covering a developing situation at atlanta hartsfield airport in atlanta, georgia, there as a gun discharge went off in atlanta. let's reset things for folks as you're just joining me at the top of the hour. welcome, everybody. i'm yasmin vossoughian. we are following breaking news out of atlanta. a frightening few moments for passengers there at the

hartsfield jackson international airport just a short time ago. a gunshot was actually heard inside the building there, which caused a heck of a lot of panic, to say the least. travelers scrambling for safety, the faa stopping all planes from coming in or out. an investigation is currently under way. the airport was quick to tweet, of course, the incident was just an accidental discharge. no one was actually in danger. but nonetheless, this is certainly having a ripple effect not only in the atlanta area but across the country, and really globally. you think about atlanta hartsfield international airport, you got airlines coming in from overseas along with connecting flights as well. it is a delta hub. and of course, a major travel weekend ahead of the thanksgiving holiday, so it seems as if there is going to be somewhat of a domino effect of events happening here as we're continuing to cover this breaking news situation from atlanta hartsfield international airport. with that, i want to bring in security expert jim cavanaugh

who was on the phone with my colleague, alex, a little bit earlier. i want to bring him back into the conversation, jim, and as we learn more details about what is taking place in the airport there, i just kind of want to walk through, first and foremost, what we expect happened there on the ground there. we are learning from a producer that alex just interviewed that this was actually a passenger's gun. his bag was being searched at a tsa, from my understanding, what we learned from this producer and we're going to be getting that producer back on, and when they learned this gun was actually in the bag, it seems as if the passenger reached for the gun, which obviously was loaded, and it was an accidental discharge. correct me, jim, but you can't be walking through as a regular old passenger a loaded gun in your carryon. >> right. you're not allowed to carry a loaded gun into the cabin of an aircraft unless you're a, you know, federal agent or sky marshal or police officer who's authorized. and that's always done with a

special circumstance we have where your identity is screened and you go back with tsa and that's a very formalized process. so citizens cannot carry loaded guns on to the cabin of an aircraft. it sounds like the citizen, when they opened the bag, there was the gun. you know, we don't know, though, the motive of what happened then. >> no. >> was it an accident -- was it an accident, he forgot, he left the gun in there and spontaneously reached for it? i can tell you that the gun discharged because the trigger was pulled because that's what happens with guns. when the trigger is pulled, they discharge. and if you mishandle or accidentally pull the trigger or, you know, manipulate it so that the hammer fires, it will shoot. and now, that's only one possibility. it's also a possibility that there was some criminal activity afoot and someone was going to grab the gun and do something. we don't know any other facts past that -- past that a bag was

opened, a gun was inside, and the citizen with the bag reached for the gun. that's what we know. >> yeah. it seems we have no confirmation, as you mentioned, on the motive of what actually took place and we want to get that producer back on the phone to get more clarity as to what happened here. nonetheless, jim, you think about atlanta hartsfield international airport. i used to live in atlanta. i've flown through that airport thousands of times, literally, at this point in my life. you've got a lot of different terminals. you have a lot of people moving through those terminals and we are receiving video and watching it right now, you think about the panic that ensued subsequently after either hearing these gunshots or hearing to take cover. how do you handle a security situation like this? when you're in an airport? >> well, first officers on the ground, they've got to get control. they've got to get to the source of the shot. stop that. if it's just an accident, it's quickly stopped. make your announcements, get

other officers there, make sure no one was hurt when they were rushing away. somebody get trampled or knocked down. but you know, it's strange to say, yasmin, but it's a good sign that people are reacting to a gunshot by getting away. quickly. they're not standing around to be curious. you know, it really is bad to be curious when you hear a shot. or an explosion. go away. you know, i dealt with bombs my whole life and guns. i used to say to the agents, you know, take cover, there could be another. and don't think that that's the only one. so, i think the citizens here acted appropriately. i see the barriers knocked down. i actually see that as a good sign. i mean, they're trying to get away. they're not letting a, you know, a little piece of cloth stop them. they want to get away. and that's good. now, how you get away, you shouldn't be in a panic if you can control yourself, you have a much better chance. move rapidly but with

intelligence. get away. seek cover, which is behind something strong, a barricade, the ticket counter, another room. distance is good. cement barriers. and you know, move with purpose. fast walk. get small. get away. that's the smart money, and these things, you know, even if it was a shooter, they only last a couple or three minutes until the police can stop them. in this case, thankfully, it sounded like just one shot, and maybe an accident. >> jim, stand by for me. i want to bring in jay blackman, our nbc news producer who covers aviation for us who has more information on what took place. jay, i know you're on the phone with alex a little bit earlier but walk us through what we're learning at this hour per the details of what actually took place and any motives we may know at this point. >> sure. good afternoon, yasmin. from what persons are telling me, a passenger went through the checkpoint in atlanta, had a weapon, whether it was a

mistakenly or on purpose in their bag, they don't know yet. and it was taken out. they saw the gun. when they opened the person's bag, which happened to me just a couple weeks ago, not that i had a gun, but they saw something in the bag, they take it over to the table and unzip the bag and try to resolve what is in your bag. apparently, when they resolved what was in his bag, it was a gun. the passenger reached for the gun and it accidentally discharged. >> okay, i know that you had some audio issues with alex a little bit earlier and it seems like those audio issues are still persisting so control room, if we could work on that, i would appreciate it because i think jay as a lot of good information that we need to deduce from what took place but i'm going to try to walk folks through this and i want you to correct me if i'm wrong from what i just heard. there was a passenger, an individual going through a checkpoint. his bag was subsequently to be searched. he sat down, this passenger, for

this bag to be searched. the bag was then subsequently opened where the gun was discovered inside the bag. now, my assumption is from what i heard this was a carry-on bag. the passenger then reached for the gun, jay, is that accurate? >> it sounds like the passenger grabbed the weapon and the weapon went off. >> the passenger -- so, do we know why, jay, the passenger grabbed the weapon? are we learning anything about that? >> i just now received a statement. it sounds like there was an accidental discharge, passengers evacuated out through the public areas. the law enforcement has locked down the main gates and they are not allowing anyone in or out. the law enforcement officials have a photograph of the passenger and are actively searching for that passenger. >> got it. okay, so, this is a new development, jay, and if you could actually forward that

statement to our control room, i would appreciate it so we could get that up as well. because that's good information here. so, understand, for folks, what we're hearing from this statement is that, in fact, this passenger has not been apprehended. this passenger has now fled and is in the airport and being searched for? is that your understanding from this statement, jay? >> that is my understanding. they have -- it sounds like they have a surveillance video and they have a photo of what the passenger looks like and they're actively searching for him -- for them. >> so, i'm wondering how the airport would be so assured 30 minutes after this discharge, because we saw the emails starting to come in around 1:30, that's when it took place, around 2:08, we saw the tweet from atlanta hartsfield international airport saying it was an accidental discharge. how could they be so sure this was an accidental discharge when in fact they're now actively pursuing, looking for this passenger? that doesn't add up to me. >> well, having a gun in an

airport is considered a federal crime, so that would be why they were looking for him. >> got it. >> it's not clear to me whether the -- where the passenger exited. what's clear is that once it was discovered that he had -- that he or she had a gun, that they either exited -- they likely exited the airport, but again, that's not clear. as jim can tell you, earlier reports are early reports and you have to do an investigation to get more. >> got it. jay, stand by for me. if you can, control room, let's work on jay's audio because i want to make sure we're hearing him more clearly because at this point we're not. stand by for me, jay. jim, let's bring you back into the conversation. so, what we learned from jay, from this statement that he literally just got in his inbox, and then of course what he said took place, try and add that kind of math equation up that i set up there which is perplexing to me right now in that you have

a passenger with an accidental discharge whose bag was being searched as he sat there and then the passenger subsequently fled. and yet, the airport is assured, putting out a tweet that this is an accidental discharge and this passenger is not in their custody at the very moment. >> yes, that's right, yasmin, and my question also would be, where's the gun? is the passenger gone and the gun was left at the checkpoint? it sounds like that must be the case. because otherwise, i think there would be much more security posture going on here if the person was loose in the terminal with a gun. and it does beg the question, why, if you had an accidental discharge, would you not stay there with the security tsa agent and, you know, rectify it? say, i'm sorry. why would you run away? now, person could have been ushered out with the crowd, you know, everybody get out or something. i guess it's possible.

or maybe they wanted to flee. sometimes people have guns illegally. they don't know you're going to discover it, and they can't otherwise legally possess a gun, like a convicted felon, for example. and if you -- you know, as a cop and an agent my whole life, it's often happens when you discover contraband, guns, narcotics, victims, and the people know you just discovered it, that's the time they want to flee or fight because they know you know. and so, sometimes -- i'm not saying that's what happened here. it could be just a citizen that had an accidental discharge. airport police said, everybody clear out and he cleared out too. that might not have been the best decision for him or he might have should have stayed there, but he might have got scared, he might have cleared out with the other passengers. >> isn't it the tsa's responsibility -- isn't it the security professionals' responsibility, the folks that are searching that bag, isn't that -- isn't this what they're trained for, to make sure this

individual stays in custody until there is more clarity on the situation, whether this was accidental or not? >> yeah, agree. >> it seems to me a ball was dropped at this point. >> i agree, it seems very unusual. and i can't think of a case in an airport like this where there was an accidental discharge and the person was not, you know, held right there and interviewed and not necessarily arrested because it might just be an accident. but you know, i didn't know the gun was in there. doesn't have a criminal record and is interviewed and released. but you know, to not know where the person is -- now, maybe the person went to a nearby police officer and said, hey, i'm the guy who had the accidental discharge and i got out of the terminal but i came to the police. we don't know where he is right now. but that's sort of a mess. what we want to know and what certainly the police want to know and what we want to know and the traveling public wants to know is, everything right of boom. what happened right of boom?

what happened when the gun fired? what did the guy say? what did he do? what did tsa say? what did they do? that would bring some clarity. where is the gun? where is the guy? and you know, what is the rest of the facts that make up this event? >> i mean, listen, the guy's lucky he didn't kill someone in that airport. >> that could have happened. >> and as are the people that are -- that were surrounding this individual. as that bag was being searched. but as jay mentioned, this is still a federal crime, firing a gun in an airport. >> well, yeah. i mean, that could be a -- that part could be accidental. if it's not on purpose, it certainly is. but if it's accidental -- you can't bring a gun on an aircraft. you have to go through the security checkpoint but there's scores and scores of guns every year that come through those checkpoints that tsa agents find. they then confiscate the gun. they interview the passenger.

a decision is made on what's really going on here. they're not always arrested, and the united states attorney does not always want to charge them because they're people who might not even have a criminal record. they just forgot. you know, they're good citizens. they owned a gun legally. they might have a permit. and they just forgot. and you know, you really don't want to prosecute people because they just forgot. so, they may be -- they could be given a fine or they could be just released. so, the circumstances matter. you know, prosecution is not designed and police don't want to arrest people to be vindictive. it's not about being vindictive. it's about protecting people and no matter how many laws we have, sometimes people are going to forget and that's just the way it is. we've had these laws in place for many, many years and yet you get hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of guns because we're a nation of 320 million-plus guns. and people have guns everywhere.

all in their house, they're in their lives, they're around everywhere and they rush in their business and their busy lives and they forget. and that sometimes happens. let's hope that this -- that is what this is and that the discharged round, no one was struck and that the citizen, it was simply an accident, and you know, then we learn the lessons from here. tsa can tighten up their procedure if the person was not kept at the checkpoint, and you know, the process of the citizens running or getting away can be re-evaluated. citizens need to be always reminded of security issues. airports do a pretty good job about that but they should always be talking to their passengers about security issues over their intercoms and their public information feeds so people know what to do. and when you're in a big crowd, always know what would happen, what would you do, where would you go?

how would you act? and that can help you. that can save you. that can keep you out of a lot of trouble. >> jim, stand by for me. i want to bring in john cox, aviation expert and former pilot. john, good to have you. thanks for jumping on for us. as always, we appreciate it. listen, i'm sure you've flown through atlanta hartsfield. it's a massive airport. lots of connecting flights there. delta hub as well. this is a weekend before thanksgiving. one of the busiest travel times of the year, especially post-pandemic when folks want to get out of where they are and see family. that being said, what do you make of what we're hearing from our producer, jay, john, that this was seemingly a passenger whose bag was being searched, reached for a gun that was discovered in his bag, accidentally fired it and now is missing? and authorities are searching for them. >> it's clearly a security breach that is being taken very

seriously, as it should be. for someone to bring a firearm to the airport, unfortunately, it does happen. but for the actions of reaching for that gun, particularly in resulting with a discharge, and then disappearing, that elevates it to a new level, and this is going to take some time to sort through. it does indicate that tsa had located the gun. they knew that it was there and were in the process of confiscating it, so the tsa portion of the security system worked. but the actions from that point on, i think, will be studied and investigated in great depth but this is going to take a while to sort out. >> what does it take for an airport to go on lockdown, john, and how can airport officials, authorities, be so certain so

quickly this was accidental when you have this person who fired the firearm now missing? >> they're going to interview the tsa agents that interacted with that passenger. and the actions that were took -- that he undertook after the discovery of the weapon is going to be a large part of what the investigators and the police are looking at. so, this is much more likely the actions of someone that forgot that that firearm was in their bag. sadly, we see a number of those every year. this year has been particularly high. so, that is one of the things they're going to be able to determine pretty quickly, that it was not an active terrorist threat or anything like that, but it's going to be the interaction between law enforcement and the people, the agents with tsa that interacted

with the -- with that passenger. why that passenger would leave and where they've gone, that's going to become a central area of focus as they try to get the airport put back together so that it can function. >> let me ask you, john, has there been a worry that there would be lapses in security at airports like atlanta hartsfield, especially when we are in the midst of this pandemic, we've heard of obviously mandates going through when it comes to vaccines, folks not wanting to necessarily get vaccinated, leaving their jobs subsequently. we've seen it across many industries. i know the tsa is also being required to receive those vaccinations. their deadline, i believe, is next week. is there a worry that there will be a lapse in security at airports like atlanta hartsfield ahead of holiday travel, especially when you see something like this go down? >> there is always an ongoing effort to keep security at the highest levels.

the -- there is always a concern and training that goes on to try to avoid complacency, to try to avoid any lapses in the security net, which security has multiple layers and so we're not dependent on any single layer to provide security. it's multiple layers and a lot of training, a lot of assets go into those multiple layers, so it's -- there's always concern. the management -- the management teams for the security agencies, they never stop worrying. so, i don't think that this event today is in any way unique to atlanta. atlanta just happens to carry -- have so many more passengers through it than most other airports. the exposure's up, but their

systems of security are also some of the best in the world. so, they'll learn from it, absolutely. and it will be the subject of hours of discussion going forward to try to get the lessons learned. >> all right, john, jim, stand by for me. i want to reset for everybody about 23 minutes after the hour. as we are following breaking news out of atlanta hartsfield international airport. you got a frightening couple of moments there for passengers at the airport just a short time ago, a gunshot going off inside the building, causing a lot of panic. you're watching the video of that, of what took place after, the consequences of that panic, scrambling for safety, travelers wanting to get behind barriers, protecting themselves. the faa stopping all planes from coming in or out. we do know an investigation is currently under way. they're also currently seeking out, it seems, the person who accidentally fired that gun. the airport did tweet that out subsequently after about 30 minutes after this event took

place. with that, i want to bring in, once again, jay blackman, nbc news producer who's been following this for us and hopefully we have better audio with you, jay, this time around but as i'm resetting this situation for passengers -- not for passengers, for viewers, talk us through what we know right now. >> we know that a passenger -- that a gun was found in a passenger's bag at a checkpoint while they were trying to resolve that, the passenger allegedly grabbed the weapon. it accidentally, i believe, went off. the passenger then left, from what i'm being told now, left the airport. the tsa has video of the checkpoint. they have a picture of this person and law enforcement is looking for them. just to clarify one thing, it's the tsa's job to make sure a gun or any type of weapon does not get from the public side of the airport to the secure side of

the airport. once a passenger runs away with a gun, that becomes a law enforcement issue, not a tsa issue. they are not law enforcement officers. >> got it. >> one other thing to consider, yasmin, is that you may know this from living in atlanta, georgia is an open carry state, which means people are allowed to walk around with -- if they have permits, with weapons. and this is something that jim cavanaugh can probably weigh in on better than i can, but there are a number of states around the country where you're allowed to -- you're legally allowed to carry a weapon. now, the tsa this year has found a record number of guns. most of the time it's unintentional. it was in a bag. they didn't realize it. they bring it to the checkpoint and in states like georgia, they are detained briefly and then they're told to take the gun and put it back in their car or to take it home. also, i'm hearing from sources

at delta airlines that they are about to put out a statement. they are going to allow for waivers so passengers can get on their way. clearly, it's going to be a difficult reset in atlanta for all the airlines, delta especially, because of the number of flights that they have out of there. but they are going to -- they are suggesting the passengers that are at hartsfield now, were coming to hartsfield, check their website. there should be something up there quite soon. >> are they going to be releasing a photograph of this individual? publicly? >> that, i do not know. >> got it. so, what we just learned was, jay, and i'm just going to walk folks through this. it seems as if the passenger was going through the tsa checkpoint. there was a conversation being had over a firearm that was found in a bag that was going through security. the passengers then reached for that gun. the gun accidentally went off. the passenger then fled to the non-secure side of the airport,

i.e., into atlanta, and so from my understanding of, jay, what you're telling us is that is not the responsibility of the tsa then to apprehend that passenger. that then falls to the jurisdiction of the law enforcement. jim cavanaugh, if you're still with me, could you weigh in on that? >> you know, jay's exactly right. the tsa agents are not armed. they are not there to arrest you. their job is to stop and prevent contraband that's harmful, explosives, poison gas materials, firearms, knives, nunchuks from getting through the security area bound for the aircraft. so in this case, the tsa did their job. they found the contraband firearm that was being tried to put through the security. and they stopped it from getting toward the aircraft. that is their job. now, nevertheless, what happens is we've learned from jay that the citizen grabbed the gun and left. >> and ran, yeah. >> he grabbed the gun and ran

away. i don't know if he ran or walked but he grabbed the gun and he left. >> yeah. >> so, you know, this would be a case that the united states attorney's going to have to look at closely and say, well, wait a minute, you know, when people cooperate with us, when they move a gun through our secured perimeter, the magnetometer and we find a gun and they cooperate and they say, oh, i'm sorry, i didn't know, i forgot. okay, mr. johnson, let's talk to you back here. you know, you check them out and you decide it's okay, you know, don't worry. either we'll keep the gun and you go on your way or whatever, or they could even arrest you. usually it's a small fine. but the prosecutor may decide that, no, this behavior caused a problem because the person ran out into the public area, and now law enforcement, the airport police, and federal agents have to go in and find out the identity of the passenger, which they're going to probably find his identity. he's not going to be an international man of mystery. i mean, he's going to be someone who had a ticket.

>> he just went through security. he had just gone through security. >> yeah, i mean, he's not -- exactly. so, i mean, they're going to know who he is. and they're going to go, you know, interview him. and they could decide that, you know, they're going to prosecute him for attempting to bring that firearm on board the aircraft. he already passed through the secure area. >> jim, jim -- sorry, i don't mean to interrupt you, jim, because everything you have to say is important for us to hear but i want to tell folks we're getting a statement from the atlanta airport once again. officials have given an all clear for the atlanta airport and normal operations are beginning. information for passengers and employees will be provided on atl's social media feeds and in the airport's public address system, so as of now, they've been given an all clear but nonetheless it seems as if that airport essentially has been on lockdown for the last hour or so on one of the biggest travel weekends of the year ahead of the thanksgiving holiday. i want all my guests to stand by. jay, stay where you are because you've got the best reception

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welcome back, everybody. we're still following the breaking news story out of the atlanta area airport. atlanta hartsfield international airport where a gunshot went off about an hour ago at this point. of course, chaos ensuing, passengers running for safety, seeking shelter, not knowing where that gunshot came from. subsequently, atlanta airport tweeting out just 30 minutes or so after that, that it was an accidental discharge, we were learning from our producer earlier what happened, walking us through some of what happened at the tsa checkpoint. the airport is now been given the all clear. just about two minutes or so ago, so over the last hour, that airport's been on lockdown on one of the biggest travel weekends of the year. kathy park is following the story from laguardia up in new york city. i know you've been following what's taking place in atlanta. we know millions of folks

traveling across this country right now, atlanta is a hub. a lot of people connecting through atlanta, not only domestically but internationally. that airport for the last hour or so has been on lockdown and now we're learning the details of exactly what took place. walk us through what you know and kind of the trickle effect that you're seeing up here. >> reporter: yeah, yasmin, obviously, it was certainly a chaotic scene when people heard a gun ring out at the airport. we have learned that a passenger who was going through a main security checkpoint had a firearm, and during this process, just a short amount of time, was trying to reach the weapon and then that is when the gun went off and we have also learned from sources that the passenger who has still not been identified is still on the loose, and right now, authorities are trying to apprehend this individual, but you see the images right now on your screen.

it was just a lot of panic, a lot of chaos, people ducking for cover, scrambling. there were long lines outside the airport. and it seems like the airport is still feeling the impacts of this incident. right now, authorities are saying that there are no injuries, but obviously, this is still an ongoing investigation. and as you mentioned earlier, yasmin, this is one of the busiest travel times of the year, more than 53 million people will be traveling during the thanksgiving holiday. that's a 13% increase from last year. but we're here at laguardia right now, and obviously, a much different scene. things have definitely started picking up ever since yesterday when people started to get a jump start on the thanksgiving holiday. but once again, this situation in atlanta, we have been notified that we -- the airport has been given the all clear, but still, they are feeling the impacts of this incident, and they are still seeing delays as a result.

yasmin? >> what type of delays are you seeing, if any, at this point, kathy, up here at laguardia as we talk about this kind of trickle effect? anything yet? >> reporter: well, the -- you know what? i honestly haven't had the chance to see the impact it's having here at laguardia but at last check, it looks like there are about a dozen or so -- at least a dozen or so delays at atlanta itself. >> got it. all right, want to bring back jay blackman. that you know, kathy, by the way. want to bring back jay blackman to talk more about this. and you were just walking us through the details of what we're learning at this hour, and we now know atl airport has given the all clear. flights can get up and going. passengers can return to what they were doing earlier. of course, i'm sure there's a sense of still a little bit of kind of nervousness for passengers to return to the airport, despite the fact that they know this was an accidental discharge. that being said, anything more

we're learning from authorities there as this thing develops in the search for the person who discharged the firearm? >> they are poring over the security video. they are -- as jim said earlier, they will be talking to the tsos and one point to make is they will absolutely be able to figure out what this passenger is, because they would have had to scan their ticket and show their i.d. to get to the point where their bag was being searched. one thing to clarify, yasmin. the tsa does have a vaccine mandate of monday or deadline -- vaccine deadline of monday. but that will not cause any type of shortage of transportation security officers over the holiday season. even if the tsos are unvaccinated, they can still work. they will be wearing a mask. there is a government mask mandate in effect for transportation at airports until the middle of january. and while this process will take a long time to play out, and tsa

officials tell me that they believe that they will be fully staffed through the holidays. they don't expect any delays due to their staffing, so that's not something to be overly concerned about. >> got it. >> one thing to know. the tsa, every single day, tweets out things that people bring to checkpoints that are illegal, whether it's guns, knives, martial arts weapons, whether it's guns, every single day. people bring things to airports that shouldn't be brought to airports and shouldn't be brought on to planes. this is something that's common. it happens extremely often. most of the time, the people are either -- the item is seized or in states where carrying guns is legal, they can sometimes be sent out just to take the gun out of the airport.

it is not supposed to happen, as you know, but it happens fairly frequently. >> a loaded gun, though, jay? i mean, how often they finding loaded guns in carry-ons? >> it's pretty often. pretty often. if you're on the tsa's twitter account, they tweet out every day, they will tweet out pictures of the guns. they will tweet out pictures of ammunition. most people, jim cavanaugh, will tell you, if they're carrying a gun, they're carrying a gun that's loaded. so i think it's a fairly common occurrence. obviously, after 9/11, after the tsa was stood up and that was, i believe, 20 years ago on friday, they had their anniversary. they were put in place because airport security before 9/11 wasn't deemed to be good enough. so, the tsa was brought in to make sure that things like this don't happen.

in this situation, the system worked. the screeners saw the gun on x-ray. it was sent to a secondary check. and they found it. >> do they check for licensing when they find a firearm in a gun? they check to see -- >> again, it's not the tsa. that becomes the purview of the airport police authority, whether it's the airport police or it's the local police. once the gun is found, that case and the weapon are then turned over to law enforcement. again, as i said -- >> so, literally -- >> go ahead. >> so, literally, the tsa's job then, from what i'm understanding from you, and i just want to be clear here, is that if they were to find a gun in someone's suitcase, they would take the gun and say, listen, you can either go home and put this thing -- leave this thing at home and return back to the airport or give it to someone to take away but it's not their job to check whether you have a license to carry this

gun, none of that is under the purview of the tsa? >> that is correct. it's dependent on the laws of the given state. georgia has a open and a concealed carry law. so in that case, if the person is legal to carry a gun and has a license to carry that gun, they can be told to take it away. in a state like new york, that person would be arrested because that is not legal. i'm just getting a text from a tsa official who tells me that 80% of the guns that they find at checkpoints are loaded. >> wow. wow. that's huge. i think a lot of people would be shocked to hear that number. these folks that don't necessarily carry guns would be shocked that 80% of the guns are loaded. >> in a situation -- in the situation that, when they do find a gun, they report it to the airport police immediately, and then it's up to them to deal with it. as you said, the tsa's job is to

discover the gun, to make sure it doesn't get to the secure side, doesn't get on an aircraft. and then, in a case where they find a gun, immediately law enforcement is called in. i've traveled four times already this week. there's almost always a law enforcement official near a checkpoint. >> yeah. jay blackman, thank you. thank you for getting to an area in which your reception was better, first of all. thank you for providing us with all this information as this news was developing. thankfully, the atlanta airport has given the all-clear. flights are resuming. passengers returning to where they were going. of course, after panic ensued at that airport just about an hour and 15 minutes ago when a shot rang out. it was subsequently noted as an accidental discharge although they are still searching for the individual that brought that loaded gun to that airport. we're going to continue to follow this story, so i want to thank my guests, jay, jim, john, and kathy as well, as this thing develops, as we get more, we'll

bring it to you, but with that, we want to move on to other things that have been developing throughout the week. the kyle rittenhouse verdict. we're going to be talking a lot about that. verdict. we're going to be talking a lot about that it made me feel like i was trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of people living with bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place... ...and be hard to manage. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. latuda is not for everyone. call your doctor about unusual mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens, and young adults. elderly dementia patients on latuda have an increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about fever, stiff muscles, and confusion, as these may be life threatening... ...or uncontrollable muscle movements, as these may be permanent. these are not all the serious side effects. now i'm back where i belong.

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welcome back. so, we're going to begin with much of the country still coming to terms with the acquittal in kyle rittenhouse's murder trial and once again this is another story exposing a deep political divide in this country. liz mclaughlin is in kenosha, wisconsin. liz, thanks for being there with us and sticking through some of

that breaking news that we were just following. of course, you had a night of peaceful protests last night, hundreds of national guard troops lining the streets. what are the reactions you're hearing there today? >> reporter: here in kenosha, it's pretty quiet right now. we saw some groups of protesters swoop through briefly, but right now, in chicago, about 60 miles south, demonstrators are filling the streets there in a protest organized by black lives matter against what they call the injustice system and they're chanting "the people's verdict, guilty." the families of those victims, the two that were killed by kyle rittenhouse, those families still reeling today, john huber, the father of anthony huber who was killed, saying he's still in shock. yasmin? >> what about any kind of civil suits in the future for kyle rittenhouse? is that even a possibility at this point? any talk of that? >> reporter: he may have escaped jail time but it is likely that

the families would sue rittenhouse for wrongful death. and here, the burden is much lower than it was in the criminal case. so, the kenosha prosecutors had to meet a beyond a reasonable doubt, but in civil trials, it's a preponderance of the evidence. so, essentially, what the jury deems a reasonable action, that the average person would do, did he do that? so, if he says, i didn't mean to kill anyone, but i got scared and it happened, the jury might deem that as not reasonable. it's closer to negligence here, and the jury can look at a broader swath of evidence. so instead of the narrow moments that were analyzed in this criminal case, they could be looking at why was he there in the first place? yasmin? >> we're going to be talking more about this in the next hour, so stick with us on that. liz mclaughlin, for now, thank you. appreciate it. we're going to schoolgirl circle back to atlanta because as you can imagine, it was quite terrifying to be inside that

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welcome back, everybody. so, we are following the breaking news from atlanta hartsfield international airport, shots ringing out or a shot ringing out around 1:30 this afternoon. we were being told around 2:00 by atlanta airport that it was an accident accidental discharge. an individual brought a loaded firearm in their carry-on to the airport. that carry-on subsequently was being searched by tsa where they discovered the firearm. the individual reached for the firearm and that's when the shot rang out. that individual then fled the airport and they are still searching for them. the airport then given an all-clear about 25 minutes or so ago. but you imagine how terrifying it must have been in those moments. and i want to bring in damian escobar, who experienced it and

has called in to us now. damian, great to talk to you. thanks for taking a moment to speak with us. what happened? >> absolutely. i mean, first off, i want to say, you know, thank god that everyone's okay. my team is okay. it was absolutely terrifying. we got into the airport. we -- business as usual, grabbing our bags. we hear a tsa official scream, you know, he has a gun. and then everyone just starts running. everywhere. we just start running and we saw a little kid get trampled. tsa takes the little kid and put him on his shoulder and started running. we heard a shot ripping out. the tsa officer said, follow me, took us to a staircase and they were just gone so we were stuck in this staircase with a few other people and it was literally pitch black. we had no idea what was going on. we didn't know where to go. and literally, we had no idea if

we'd come from out the staircase, if we were going to get shot. this was literally nervewracking, as you can imagine, and finally, another tsa agent came and escorted us outside but then we got outside and then folks were saying, the shooter's outside, so they told us to rush back inside. and it was just absolute chaos. you see things like this happen on tv and you hear things like this happening, but being right in the middle of it and involved in it is one of the most terrifying experiences of my life. >> what do you make of 30 minutes later, the airport sending out a statement saying it was an accidental discharge? >> that makes no sense to me. >> why? >> absolutely no sense to me. i have no idea how it can accidentally discharge. i know how that happens at an airport. i don't know. i think it's just poor narrative. i think it's, you know, it's absolutely not true from my perspective and any others that were there. i don't know how they got that, and they really need to clear that up and tell people the

truth, because that could have not been an accidental discharge, you know, especially when you have an agent yelling that he has a gun. how does -- i don't know. all i know, it was terrifying. i thank god that everyone that was there is okay. >> yeah, we're thankful that everybody obviously is okay as well. and it seems as if the situation at this point has been resolved at the airport, and that they have said it's all clear and they're going to resume flights. but nonetheless, damian, where were you standing when this actually took place? where were you standing and where did you hear "he's got a gun" coming from? how far away was it from you? >> it was pretty far from us. it was pretty far from us. the exact place where i was standing, i can only tell you, we were far enough to -- it being in the distance but literally, when we heard it, we were like, you know, what is that? we didn't think that we heard what we thought we heard until we saw people running. and then the next thing you know, we hear the gunshot, and then we just start booking it. we start running right down the

steps to get away from everything, and oh my goodness. literally one of the most -- i'm still shaking now. one of the most frightening experiences i've ever been through in my life. >> i was going to say, i feel like you're still reeling from all it, the adrenaline pumping, dealing with something like that, going through something like that. >> absolute disbelief. absolutely. you hear about it. and you read about it. but just being in the middle of it, it's something that i thought i would never experience in my lifetime. >> and you saw a girl being trampled, a little girl? >> yeah, young girl being trampled. a tsa agent ran right over her and thankfully another agent picked her up, put her right on his shoulder and kept running and i hope she's okay. >> did she seem okay at that point, the little girl when they picked her up? >> she did. she did. >> so, how are you feeling walking back into that airport now to get on your flight to go wherever it is you're going? >> i'm nervous beyond belief. we have to travel back tomorrow,

so nervous without a doubt. >> who were you traveling with, damian? >> my band. we came in town for a concert this evening and you just come to a city to play some music. and you never expect something like this happening. >> what do you make of the fact that this guy had a gun, this individual had a gun in their carry-on that was loaded? >> that's the thing. and i don't -- i mean, unbelievable. unbelievable. unbelievable. that's why -- how can that be an accidental discharge? absolutely unbelievable. beyond negligent. and it just kind of lends itself to just the disparities when it comes to weapons in this country as a whole, you know? it's something that shouldn't happen, and it happens far too often here in america. you know? like, things like this should not happen, and personally, i'm just tired of it happening, especially being in the middle of it now, it really impacts me

on a completely different level. >> yeah. it's frightening. damian, before i let you go, i know you got a flight to catch, you need to recover. maybe get yourself a cocktail at one point, i don't know. >> oh, yeah. yeah. >> but did you have any communication from the airport while you were going through this? >> no. we -- no one had any idea what was going on. we were relying on passengers to let us know what was happening. no one had any idea what was going on. tsa had no idea. i mean -- and that's the thing that was frightening as well. there was no protocol. you know, there was no emergency protocol. there was nothing. there was no one to follow. tsa just ran out of the airport, and i totally get that, but i just feel like there has to be better protocol put in place for when things like this happen because no one knew anything and it was just pure chaos. >> how did you feel at that point that it was safe to come back in? >> i did not come back in. we didn't come b