hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. it is a phenomenon that is unheard of in modern american life, a disgraced one-term expresident solidifying his grip on one of the country's two major political parties. new developments, and a wave of fresh reporting highlight how the expresident and his allies have seized near full control of the american right. the "washington post" reports that a so-called maga squad of trump loyalists folks like congressman matt gaetz what is ensnared in an alleged child sex trafficking investigation and marjorie taylor green seized the spotlight within the house gop and are leading a push to purge their party of lawmakers who dare to try to get things done for their constituents by working with democrats on things that used to be uncontroversial, things like infrastructure, or those who acknowledge the truth, the reality of january 6th that the expresident and his allies

used the big lie that the election was stolen to insight a deadly insurrection, from that reporting quote this maga squad has rocketed to fame especially on the political right with massive social media followings, frequent appearances on pro-trump media and growing fund-raising networks that get a boost with every provocative tv hit. most of all, the president, who praises them at rallies and echos their incendiary rhetoric. they gained strong with gop leaders who back their position or remain silent when others in the party raise objections to their approach. none of this, none of it, would be happening without right wing media whose biggest stars are fully committed to feeding millions of americans a steady diet of pro-trump garbage and disinformation a. series by tucker carlson that suggests

contrary to all evidence available -- led to the rei go nation of two prominent conservatives from fox news in protest. steven hayes and jenna goldberg quote find themselves in a group of americans who think that the threat that trump poses to americas's democratic system outweighs many other political differences. hayes said he was particularly concerned about the fox lending support to the idea that quote there was a domestic war on terror and it is coming for the rest of the country. that is not true. in dispatch, they call out fox news for years of pelsing disinformation in service of donald trump. adding that the tucker carlson special painting an alternate reality of the capitol attack is quote a collection of incoherent conspiracy mongering riddled with factual inaccuracies, half

truths, deceptive imagery and damning omissions and its message is clear, the u.s. government is targeting patriotic americans in the some manner with the same tools it used to target al qaeda. this is not happening and we think it's dangerous to pretend it is. if a person with such a platform shares such misinformation loud enough and long enough there are americans who will believe and act upon it. this is not theoretical. this is what actually happened on january 6th, 2021. the releaptless trumpification of the right is where we begin. jackie alemany, steve sha submit, jason johnson, and claire mccaskill. jackie, this is your reporting. i want to ask you to take me inside of it.

>> thanks for having me on to talk about it. we sort of touched on it on friday, although from that perspective, we were looking more at minority leader kevin mccarthy's bid to cement his speakership for next year in the case the house gop does take back the majority. but, you know n the meantime this, maga squad, which is the far right corner of the house freedom caucus, people like congresswoman marjorie taylor green, paul gosar, matt gates -- the biggest and louders voices in the house gop conference. they are the people who amplify a lot of trump's disinformation. they amplify disinformation of their own, along with anti-semetic and racist memes and conspiracy theories. they have at least in the past. two of them have been successfully censured by

democrats and kicked off of their committees. instead of these members being disowned by the party they have been actually embraced and celebrated by the de facto leader of the republican party him selves, former president trump, and thusly, they have been supported and continue to be supported by minority leader kevin mccarthy. that number 218 is on his mind which is that he wants as much support as possible in the case that the minority does become the majority so that he can ultimately become speaker. in the meantime, though, if he continues the not be able to appease some of these more extremist right wingers, you are going to continue to see blowback, like you did last week, marjorie taylor green -- again, while she may not be representative of the house gop conference she is one of the loudest voices and she was not happy with minuterity leader and criticized him for declining to punish the 13 republicans who voted in favor of the bipartisan infrastructure package.

>> this is unbelievable. steve schmidt, you tweeted, a tide of extreme has risen from the ashes of a failed american coup. what strikes me is how much more extreme our broken politics has gotten since the trump coup and there is an absolute black hole of nothingness. where there should be focus and a passion around defending american democracy and the birth right of freedom that should be the envy of people all around the world. >> good afternoon. everything jackie just said there is startling to hear, of course. but we know it already. this has been so for a long time. these people that she mention, from paul gosar, who has raised money from a holocaust denier, who has aligned himself with white nationalists and white supremacists. no hyperbole at all involved.

he ideaated about the murder of a congresswoman, matt gaetz, all the rest of they are, they are listeny, crazy. bow geert, six or seven different arrests. these political extremists are in charge of the republican party. we have known that. we are -- we are seeing a republican party continue to metastasize. the autocratic moment is evolving. the threat is deepening. and they are poised to take power in the midterms in 2022. kevin mccarthy, i think, will have a real hard time being speaker. he failed at it before. but the people you just mention ready going to drive the message of the republican party. it's an opportunity for democrats to run against, to campaign against. and when we talk about all of this, we are just reminded by this winston churchill quote trying to explain the second world war. what he said was the malice of

the wicked was aided by the weakness of the virvirtuous. and you have this collection of people that have pretended this isn't happening, turned away from it, continued to pretend it is not happening. but all the while, the temperature rises in america with regard to this moment of extremism. >> and one of the most alarming aspects of this is attempts to launder what they all know is b.s. steve, i want to show you ted cruz's performance. because that's what it was. performative punditry on cbs. >> i had many conversations with him leading up to january 6th. i talked to the president sometimes as often as once a week or once a day. but my point is simple. under the constitution, congress has a role and has a

responsibility when it comes to certifying votes. you look at 1876 and the election of 1876, there was a contested election. there were serious allegations of election fraud. what congress did in 1876, it appointed an electoral commission, five members of the senate, five members of the house, five supreme court justices. >> you know your laying out an intellectualized argument is not what people gathered and chanting things like hang mike pence were chanting about. you know that. >> i think the violence that happened on that day was horrific. democrats and the president decided to engage in incendiary rhetoric rather than engage that voter fraud is a problem and the allegations of voter fraud needed to be examine on the merits. >> senator, there is no evidence of fraud that would have really drawn the outcome of the

election to within doubt. you know that. >> this there were allegations of election fraud. no, there went. billware was the attorney general for christ's sake, and rudy giuliani took his allegations of fraud to dozens of courts. and there wasn't any. why is this person, ted cruz, still on tv saying that? >> this is a historically despicable person. he ranks up there with joe mccarthy. he's a demagogue. he's a liar. he's as irresponsible united states senator as there has ever been in the history of the united states. he arrived in the senate and has been a vandal towards our institutions and towards the idea of the truth and delivering it to the american people. so, again, it's owl nonsense that he is spouting out of his mouth. again, we have a real-life autocratic movement in this

country. two elements in order to sustain one, are the cynicism of its elites. men like ted cruz, who have had every advantage, every opportunity, graduate of the most elite institutions in the country, like harvard law school, who believe they can ride the trump tiger, that they can play its supporters for fools, that they can that they can accrete power to themselves. when you look at somebody like ted cruz, you know he's lying. everybody knows he's lying. ted cruz knows he's lying. but extraordinary cynicism coupled with the type of propaganda that comes out of fox news and the right wing can turn that nonsense into reality. so ted cruz helped incite the january 6th attacks with his lying, with hisins gagss. he was of course revving up the crowd there that morning. and he has sought to whitewash it with more lying for many many months. he is a truly despicable figure

at a moment of real crisis. history will judge him very, very harshly should american democracy prevail in the years of fight that lie ahead between this extremist movement that is gaining strength, not decreasing in strength? claire, i want to turn to the reporting in the "new york times" about the resignation of two -- i mean, for all of my time and steve schmidt's time in american politics, these two gentlemen were important and influential. and it's good that they left, it is good to have a line. i want to show what you didn't cross the line for them. >> america's most dangerous insurrectionists aren't the goofy qanon people in if you are and face pant. okay? the real threat to our future is biden, and the well healed powerful force who is want us to lose sight of what made america great in the first place.

>> no reasonable person thinks that what happens on january 6th was as biden said the worst attack on the capitol since the civil war. >> the ring leaders of the riots go free, especially if they are working for the fbi, but the people who defend jebd's friends, they are in jail. >> it's a curious line to draw, i guess. there was a lot of really dangerous, really bad disinformation, even before that heinous tucker carlson docku drama. >> what has really changed is there has always been a degree of dishonesty in order for people to get the power they want. for fox news, it's to try to get viewers. for ted cruz, it's to try to get power. and, really, they are so much worse, the tucker carlsons, and

the ted cruzs of the world, as steve just said, they are so much worse than the qanon lady. i think this qanon lady might really believe this stuff. i think she may be -- you know, may be a little dim and actually think this stuff is true. but tucker carlson knows it's not true. as steve said, ted cruz knows none of this is true. let's take a walk down memory lane. let's look at how bold this irresponsibility is. does anybody what ted cruz was doing at the end of the republican primaries in 2016? i remember. he was calling out donald trump. >> uh-huh. >> and he even went so far as to take it all the way to the conversion, when he was met with a rain of boos, and the brilliant politician ted cruz decided this was the moment for him to take his stand against donald trump. and now he is a shrivelled up

mere shadow of the guy who was on that podium at the republican national convention. he is so desperate to be relevant, he will sacrifice everything, everything to do it. and by the way, kevin mccarthy is the same way. and mitch mcconnell is the same way. and so are another host of republican leaders that have not just allowed the marjorie taylor greens and the bow berts, and crazy gosars to take over. they have given them their power willingly. it is astounding. >> astounding and dangerous. we have had this conversation going back to the earliest days of the biden administration about why this matters. and at a time when the department of homeland security and law enforcement agencies have issued bulletin after bulletin after bulletin explaining to local police

departments and the public that the gravest threat to the homeland is domestic violent extremism and that the biggest bucket within that threat is white supremacy and its grievances, about covid and about the election. why this matters, because the beating heart of the republican party, the american right is right in line with greatest terror threat to the homeland. >> yeah. and here's the thing. remember, part of this sort of collection of zany crazy people as we refer to them, remember, they were fighting over each other on twitter last friday to offer internships to kyle rittenhouse. that's where we are, right? they are not just sort of offering lip service and red meat to terrorists. they are actually going after people who just slipped by after shooting three folks and saying you would make a great intern. that's the issue.

here's the larger thing. none of this is new. these people were always this way. ted cruz has always been a grown up edition of stacey flick. jim jordan can always find conspiracy theories everywhere except apparently in his own locker room. marjorie taylor green, all of them. the question is not whether they are terrible people. the question is what does the administration who see this is behavior, what does nancy pelosi, merrick garland -- what do they do? i have been pointing out, congress is now a hostile workplace a hostile workplace like wouldn't be accepted at any of our jobs. you can't have people going into the building threatening other people who work there. these are the kinds of things that nancy pelosi should be talking to department of justice about, hey, can we bring in rules here? we had one issue with masks but these guys are threatening each other on line that are working

in the sam building. we need to do something about that, we need to go further with the department of justice investigations because you can't tell me none of these people or their staffs were involved in january 6th. somebody here is guilty. we know it. if there was an actual effort to arena down consequences on some of this behavior we might be seeing them backing off. those in a position to hold those that are terrible accountable have not done so. it allows the next character to come out of the woodwork to do something more extreme and get themselves into a jerry mannedered office in the mid terms. >> what was steve scalise's posture around the dissemination of a video depicting violence towards another member, having been a member of political violence himself? >> i asked him that after you asked me on -- i'm sorry -- i

hadn't yet had the opportunity to ask him that. but i actually want to get back to a point that claire made about -- when you suggested, claire, that some of these people might be dim for buying into some of these conspiracy theories and the fraudulent lies. look, i'm not a defender of the insurrectionists but i think there is a responsibility to call out the perpetrators of these laws, kayleigh mcenany to ted cruz, people who graduated from elite institutions in the united states who have been amplifying and repeating all of this disinformation, all of these conspiracy theories, for the purpose of political expediency. the lawyer for jacob chansley, the guy who was sentenced last week who was known as the qanon shai man, his lawyer had a message. he said that the message here was for his client who actually end up being fairly repentant for some of his acts, said that

donald trump needed to take care of the jack asses that he effed up on jik. i think this is an important message that we all need to repeat over and over again. yes, maybe some of these people might be dim. but they are also being spoon-fed these lies by people who are supposed to respect and trust the leaders of their party, a major political party, who have all the platforms in the world to perpetuate these lies. and i just -- i just don't think we -- you know, yes, obviously, it is incumbent on the perpetrators who ultimately breached the capitol. but we do need to call out the root and the rot of the problem here. >> that might be -- that's the most important point. that is why fox news matters. that's why we cover it here. claire, i want to give you a chance to respond. i am sure you are saying something more along the same lines as one another than

divergent. but this is the whole point. of course kayleigh mcenany and ted cruz know if there were brought bill barr would have found it. bill barr repelled career prosecutors in the office with his meddling in trump's campaign crew. bill barr i think busted norms before the election by saying he would investigate fraud. bill barr sort of platformed donald trump's conspiracy theories about election fraud on cnn ahead of the election. that guy couldn't find any, had to give an interview to a.p. in order to get it out there in hopes that the guy at the white house would hear it or see it. chris krebs, life long republicans, couldn't find any fraud, because there wasn't any. claire, to jackie's point about kayleigh mcenany, who is very well educate asked ted cruz, and these others, and that really vir leapt strain of disinformation echo and amplification on fox news, how

do democrats counter that? >> first of all, i gee -- agree totally. marjorie taylor green and the other dim wits are not really the truly bad guys here. the bad guys here with the people who know better and who, in an effort -- as i said, ted cruz n an evidence just to get power, just to be at the center of attention. whether it is lindsey graham or ted cruz or the people that have high education at fox news that are doing this -- and where is bill barr? i mean, what kind of hell is he living in right now? you know, why isn't he speaking out? why has he been allowed to go radio silent after he quit because he saw what was coming. he saw what was coming. he resigned because he realized that trump was going to do the unthinkable. he was going to try to estate the election. and so he quit. but he just put his tail between

his legs and shrinked off somewhere, never to be seen or heard from again. what kind of legacy is that? for a man who had served honorably in government -- you know, when i say honorably, i disagreed with him but he was around a long time. those of us on the hill thought he was, quote, unquote, normal. we didn't realize there was a new normal. we didn't realize that normal was gone, that mitch mcconnell and all of them, whether it is josh hawley, mitch mcconnell, steve scalise, they all are in the tank for lies in the name of getting and holding power. >> i hope bill barr saw that message. jackie, thank you for your reporting and starting us off talking about it. when we come back, an update from local officials on the scene of the tragedy in wisconsin yesterday. we learned the names of the five victims and the identity of the driver who rammed his suv into a

holiday parade full of children and families. we will bring you the latest. plus, how to stay safe this thanksgiving. we will talk to an expert. later in the program a new report on democracy. it is not exactly good news here at home. but before the break, a bit of comic relief from our friends at "snl," where contestants played a game of something they are calling republican or not. >> start the clock. >> on twitter, my pin tweet is my body, my choice. >> okay, that's a trick. she's talking about vaccines, right? >> oh, if we only knew. another hint, lacy. >> i support caitlyn jenner. >> in what way? politically? >> y'all are doing great. just great. ♪ ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark.

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you need to know that waukesha takes pride in its identity and has a wonderful spirit. it can be described as a norman rockwell christmas parade. it became the scene of a horrific tragedy. last night that parade became a nightmare. we have so much healing that needs to occur. we will not be defined by the horrific events of last night. we will work together to promote healing. >> the mayor championing his

city's strength after an suv plowed into a christmas parade late afternoon yesterday. at least five people have been killed and more than 48 injured. police identified the victims as virginia sorenson, lee anna owen, tamara burant, jane cool itch and well helm hostile. darrell brooks is now facing five counts of first-degree intentional homicide. police have not ruled out additional charges for him. he's scheduled to appear in court tomorrow. efforts out on bail in a separate case at the time of the incident. police are still investigating his motivation but they have debunked several rumors relating to the case. they have said there no connection to terrorism and that they do not believe there is any relationship between last night's incident and the not guilty verdict in the rittenhouse trial, nor was he being pursued by police at the time. this was the 58th christmas parade for waukesha after last year's parade was canceled due

to the pandemic. the theme of this year's event was comfort and and joy. a vigil for the victims will be held tonight at 6:30. joining us, clint watts. i watched this press conference. this is a community, obviously, dealing with something no community wants to deal with. but another tragedy in the national spotlight. >> yeah, nicole, one of the strangest ones i think i have seen in quite some time. still, a day later it is not quite clear why this person decided to drive through a parade, what the motive exactly was for these killings. each when you watch the video it was apparent for anyone who has seen a terrorists video of a vehicle homicide case, sometimes speeding up like you see there, sometimes deliberately running

over people, then deliberately dodging people. the entire scene is shocking. it is hard to get your head around why there is senseless violence like this. we would note we have had several cases over the last couple years where it is not clear what the motive is. ities really frightening for the country. you might think back to the nashville bombing last christmas. very similar, where to this day we don't know why they chose to do what they did. >> clint, take us inside where you imagine the investigation to be. what are they looking a of the in the what sorts of questions would they have? >> yeah, this individual has a long criminal record. tom winter was reporting on it earlier today. you have got the look at, okay, what was involved in this? one, there are the sort of suggestions that it might have been related to a different domestic disturbance which put him out onto the road where he started drivings. then the unanswered question of

why drive through the parade, especially if he was not being pursued. it doesn't make sense. the other thing they want to look for is the questions around bail. this individual can be out on bail in recent weeks. it seems like the amount of bail was quite low. and is this a pattern or a string of other things that have been picked up by law enforcement? did the system somewhat fail in the sense that we have a repeat offender who maybe was involved in another vehicle sort of incident? could this have been prevented in i think there is going to be a lot of rewinding and trying to look at what started this? and why didn't we pick up on it earlier if there was a pattern? >> let me show what you the fire chief had to say about what the first responders witnessed on the scene. >> it was just -- i guess for lack of a better -- just carnage. likening it to a war zone. i guess what stands out in my mind from our conversations is we do have people who have military backgrounds and likened it to a war zone.

>> just a haunting echo to the first responders. newtown, and the first responders dealing with anything like this, the most innocent collection of the kinds of victims. there are children who are hospitalized. the victims were seniors. these were families. what is sort of the process and the impact on law enforcement and first responders, clint? >> it's going to be quite traumatic for them. the other part of it was this was not like we oftentimes see in terrorist attacks a soft target. it was hard in the sense that law enforcement were there and tried to stop with barricades and tried to enter dikt this. for them they have to deal with the consequences of having to observe this, also having to respond to it and also having to watch it come right into them at the same point. some of the first videos where the barricades were at are sad

and frightening. you feel for the law enforcement there. they detected it. saw it coming, sent warnings, did all the right thing. but it didn't stop the loss of life. it will be tough for them to process it. it is a local community, a local police force. everyone did the right thing. you could see in the videos people immediately responding. it was remarkable how well they did as a town to respond to that event across the entire emergency services of law inferencement. hats off to them. i think we should be in urn mooing for those that died and those that had to respond is watch their friends and family be murdered senselessly for what is apparently no reason at all. >> let me show you president biden's response to the tragedy. >> we know this morning that five families in waukesha are facing fresh grief of life without a loved one. at least 40 americans are

suffering from injuries. some of them in critical conditions. and an entire community is struggling, struggling to cope with the horrific act of violence. last night, the people of waukesha were gathered to celebrate the start of a season of hope and togetherness and thanksgiving. this morning, jill and i and the entire biden family and i'm sure all of us pray that that same spirit is going to embrace and lift up all the victims of this tragedy, bringing comfort to those recovering from the injuries, and wrapping the families of those who died in support of their community. >> we will stay on it. clint watts thank you so much for spending some time with us. president biden this afternoon renominated the fed chairman to another term in part, he says, because he was able to stand up to interference from the last president. the white house aiming for for stability today. we will be right back with everyone on our panel at that talk about that. talk about that.

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we need stability and independence at the federal reserve. jay's proven the independence that i value in a federal chair -- in the fed chair. in the last administration, he stood up to unprecedented political interference, in doing so, successfully maintained the integrity and credibility of this institution. i believe having fed leadership with a broad bipartisan support

is important, especially now, in such a politically divided nation. >> president biden this afternoon announcing his nomination of jerome powell for a second term as federal reserve chair for a largely bipartisan pick but against pressure from progressives within his own party to not keep the republican trump appointee. biden stressing how powell's steady and decisive leadership has led to economic recovery over the last ten months, that continuity in the role will serve economy and keep inflation and prices low 12k3 stable, tasks that carry all the more weight ahead of next year's mid terms. we are back with our panel. claire, what do you think? >> i think it was a good move. i think it shows he's more worried about stability, continuity, keeping the firm hand on economic growth, and not just playing to the political winds that may be blowing hard in terms of people who wanted a

more liberal pick. but this -- he knows -- i think the president knows that this inflation could ruin everything that he wants to get done. and by the way, that list includes many of the things that the progressive wing of the democratic party wants very, very badly. >> yeah. >> i think this was a good move, init was a smart and strong move. >> steve, i of course watch these things and i am always thinking about the right's attempt to caricature this president. there is a constant attempt to care kature him as a hostage of the far left and he continues to blow up attempts to fit him into any mold of that sort. >> look, we were talking earlier about the efficiency of the right wing propaganda network. so, what's dominating that is the louis vuitton smash and grab in san francisco, images of lawlessness that are sent down

the stream and people then pass it alone on their social media feeds, and they are imprisoned into this distopian alternate reality by facebook, spewed forth from fox news and a thousand other little mini foxes. so on all of these things, the caricature is an alternate reality. we saw a messy sausage making process over the pieces of legislation where over the course of it there was a failure in my stings to communicate effectively about what the effective threat is. the president is talking about stability. but we can't have stability in a country where you have 400 pieces of legislation in the states that are attempting to roll back voting rights. or you can have stability if nothing is done to prevent

abuses from acting deputy secretary whoever it is running around loose in the defense department or in the internal security agencies of the country. and so from ethics to all of those issues, we have not seen a lot of action over the course of the last year. all the while, the republican party has gotten more extreme. in inaction to deal with the previous level of extremism, which was unprecedented, just hasn't measured up. so i think that it's fine, right? the fed chairman is competent ten and able. we shouldn't have a politicized fed chair. but in the end if we are going to focus on stability, then the president should focus on stability, take the threat seriously, and do whatever can be done over the course of the next year, while there is democratic control of the congress to harden the infrastructure of democracy in the country. >> yeah, we keep coming back to

that, jason, and it is true. and i -- i wonder your thoughts on the pick. and i wonder your thoughts on this idea that biden's sort of dna is about this memory of bipartisanship. there aren't a lot of opportunities to make that a reality. in fact, the republicans that cooperated with him on infrastructure are being targeted with threats of violence. that is the reality. bipartisanship as a sort of practical matter is a now potentially life threatening endeavor for republicans. what do you make in that context of the pick? and if you have any reaction to steve's point about hardening the infrastructure of our democracy? >> i think the pick is fine because i don't think there is anybody in america who is going to vote next year who cares about the fed pick. like at a practical level we are facing an existential crisis in this country. so when biden make these sorts

of moves, bipartisan here, bipartisan there, fine, but that's fundamentally changing anything. and i think what has concerned me about what steve has said and what i think sort of going forward is i think joe biden has been just -- his mindset is trapped in amber from the '90s where you could play squash or racket ball and work these issues out. we are not there anymore. i don't know -- for everybody on the panel, who travelled around the country, up in the midwest, up north -- wherever we go, i haven't met one voter who says i think we need more bipartisanship in washington. no one says that. what people say is they want things to get done. they are tired of gridlock. they don't care if you get things done if you steam roll the other side if they agree with what you are talking about. the issue i have with biden, the piece of his running again and things like, that you can't as a democratic party one in 2020

saying they could be the last election we have, we have got to protect voting rights, the attack on january 6th is the worst thing in the world and then you get into office and you don't make those a priority. let's pass infrastructure first. but you just told us that the last election is the most important thing that ever happened. why aren't you working on voting rights? you told us january 6th is the worst event in the world. why aren't people doing person walks. the urgency that you ran on is in and out coming out policy wise. fed picks, this appointment here and there, wonderful and beautiful, but if you can't get dak to the urgency, you are not going to win votes next year. >> claire, your name was invoked, as was the midwest. your thoughts. >> here's the reality on it. jason and i talked about this many times together. the reality is that in the elections that will decide

control of congress, they run through places that are not red or blue. and so the people who really care about the things that jason is talking about are the ones that frankly are -- sometimes they are on one end or the other. and pennsylvania and wisconsin and ohio -- it is going to be the suburbs ask. voters who voted for joe biden and voted for donald trump. he's right about this. if joe biden doesn't keep inflation under control f gases are still very high. if you still can't find a place for your child to be safe while you are at work, for child care, joe biden is in a lot of trouble next year. that's why even though they may not vote on fed chair f the fed chair can control inflation, it will bode well for the democrats in the mid terms. >> we will stay on to it. meanwhile, the coronavirus pandemic continues to defy all

predicts. case numbers are growing again. as the thanksgiving holiday approaches, many americans are sticking with their plans. we will ask our experts if that's the right idea. next. next

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bye mom. my helpers abound, i'll need you today. our sleigh is now ready, let's get on our way. a mountain of toys to fulfill many wishes. must be carried across all roads and all bridges. and when everyone is smiling and having their fun i can turn my sleigh north because my job here is done. it's not magic that makes more holiday deliveries to homes in the us than anyone else, it's the hardworking people of the united states postal service. there's no reason why we can't enjoy the holiday with our families, particularly now that so many people are vaccinated. for the unvaccinated, i say, please, you know, there are 60 million people or so who are

eligible to be vaccinated who are not vaccinated. those are the ones that are significantly more vulnerable. >> let's bring into our conversation msnbc medical contributor dr. vin gupta, pulmonologist and global health policy expert. so, there's a story that just moved on the "new york times" website, dr. olsterholm is quoted as saying, this thing is throwing curve balls at us. it has repeatedly defied predictions and continues to do so. let me just show our viewers where things are right now. cases are up 29% in the last two weeks. hospitalizations are up 6%. in the last two weeks. death are down 9%, still coming down from the delta surge, but i want to understand your recommendations for the holidays. the "times" article says that despite cases ticking up and in some places being higher than they've been since the spring, everyone is going back to

normal. is that what we should be doing? >> good afternoon, nicole. great to see you. absolutely. i think it's okay -- if you are 18 and older, you've gotten your two-shot series, getting a booster if you haven't already, you can get near immediate benefits from that, nicole, within, say, 48 hours. that's when that booster starts to take effect. 50 and older, vital you get that booster as soon as possible. the point is, if that's you and you've gotten boosted, it is absolutely safe to travel. an airplane cabin is one of the safest places you can be around other people fully masked. air exchanges of the entire air circulation every two minutes, 100% of that air, so traveling by airplane to your destination, making sure everybody's boosted and they took proper precautions, absolutely safe to gather indoors, unmasked, with others that are doing the same thing. lastly, just say, for everybody out there, since people want actionable advice here, know your body.

know your body. know your symptom profile. if you're developing a head cold, if you have a sore throat, get tested, get tested before you travel. i'd like -- i tell all my patients and anybody that asks, if you haven't already in the last 20 months, get an oximeter, and speak to your provider if you have any of those symptoms because we're going to soon have oral antivirals so really nobody should die from this pandemic, because we have great tools, both vaccines and therapeutics. >> that's the 2021 stocking stuffer, that little thing. i want to ask if there's any size that's too big. because i think people feel that there are mixed messages. so there's no limit to the size of a gathering, maskless and indoors, for thanksgiving. why aren't we all back in the office? >> well, you know, that's a great point here, and you can congregate back in the office. we're seeing some companies actually do that, nicole. apple is going to do it in february. i disagree with it because i think psychologically, we're going to be seeing 10,000 weekly

deaths, week over week, well into the beginning of march. we're going to have cold and flu season. so there's some unpredictability here. >> is there anyone that shouldn't gather? i mean, because of when the kids' vaccine was approved, most kids between 5 and 11 have probably only had one. are they safe? >> i do believe kids are safe, less than 12 years of age, especially if they're still in the process of getting their initial series. that's where it's just going to come down to individual risk tolerance. as parents -- i'll say, as a parent myself with a 4-year-old, assuming that we're gathering in a place where everybody that's vaccinated is otherwise vaccinated and we're in a place that doesn't have out of control covid around us, go to covidactnow.org if you're watching this. type in your city or county. you'll get a sense if you're in a red or green type of zone. if you're in a place that has covid relatively under control, hospitals aren't surging, that's

a place where you can gather with kids unmasked as they're waiting to get vaccinated. >> so when dr. olsterholm talks about curve balls, what's he worried about? >> at this point, i think there's some agreement with dr. osterholm because everything we're seeing right now, we're expecting. we expected this to occur. we have been long forecasting here at the institute for health metrics that we're going to see 10,000 weekly deaths well into cold and flu season because of cold or dry air. i don't think this is as much a curve ball as something that's anticipated. it's preventable is the key point. >> dr. gupta, very reassuring news. steve schmidt, claire mccaskill, jason johnson it was a treat. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after a quick break. r of "deadline white house" starts after a quick break. lowering your a1c with once-weekly ozempic® can help you get back in it. oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! my zone... lowering my a1c, cv risk,

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♪♪ following the january 6th attacks, my family had to get security for our safety. i never imagined having to drop my kindergartener off at school with security in toe. >> a political activist attempted to run me over with his car. >> i had one person say, this is the gun i'm going to use, put three bullets until the back of his head, and you find yourself uncomfortable sitting by a window in your home. that's not something i thought i would ever have to think in this country. >> a previously unthinkable reality now sadly familiar for many members of congress in both parties as threats against their lives and safety have ratcheted up following the horrors of

january 6th. instead of deadly insurrection becoming some sort of wake-up call for those on the right to rebuke the violence carried out by supporters of donald trump, instead, grievances have become fueled and attempts to terrorize elected officials have escalated. nbc news is reporting today that the capitol police expect to log more than 9,000 threats against lawmakers this year. to give you a sense of how massive that increase is, in 2017, in the first year of trump's term, only 3,900 threats were reported. nbc goes on to detail several previously unreported threats against elected officials. congressman tom rice of south carolina, one of the ten republicans who voted to impeach donald trump in january, received a menacing voicemail a few weeks later. congressman ted lieu was threatened with a citizens' arrest several days after january 6th and although the report of the incident said there was no articulatable threat, police have received

patrol requests for the congressman. senator collins had at least 77 property checks at her home and local office between january 6th and september 1st. and following the impeachment vote in february, a suspicious letter was mailed to impeachment manager congressman joe ngusa's home which revealed a picture of him with an unknown substance suspected to be feces marking an "x" over the photo. disturbing incidents that signal an alarming trend where one of the two major political parties in this country has become increasingly tolerant of violence and images of violence, and in some cases, are the ones promoting it. first off, we cannot divorce what we're seeing now with the rhetoric that was spread by the ex-president. >> i could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot somebody and i wouldn't lose any voters, okay? when you see these thugs being thrown into the back of a paddy wagon, just see them thrown in, rough. i said, please don't be too nice. any guy that can do a body slam, he's my kind.

but how do you stop these people? you can't. there's no -- that's only in the panhandle you can get away with that statement. if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. >> and he might be old news but just last week, the republican party was forced to go on the record about a member in their own ranks now who posted an animated video of himself killing another member of congress. the gop with the teensiest number of exceptions, two, stood behind the inciter of violence, paul gosar, and even indicated there would be a reward for that behavior. kevin mccarthy, the house republican leader, told reporters he would return gosar and marjorie taylor greene, the georgia republican whom democrats also booted off committees for violent comments, to their panel assignments if republicans take back the majority in 2023. the escalation of violent threats to members of congress is where we start this hour with

some of our favorite reporters and friends. joining us for the hour, former republican congressman david jolly is here. national chairman of the serve america movement. and caddy kay, co-author of the book, "the confidence code." david jolly, i start with you because you served in this body. i was shocked when congressman jim himes on this show said, someone's going to get shot and i was so shocked, i didn't even follow up, and then he said it again. and i said, do you really think so? i mean, this is where we are, and it used to be, you had a lot of trepidation in these jobs to put that out there. but this is the threat environment, and these are the kinds of things that members who serve in that body are saying out loud and in public. >> yeah, nicole, the escalation of threats against members of congress and at times our staff is certainly measurable. i, prior to serving in congress as a member, spent roughly 20 years working with the institution, and there would be times, maybe once or twice a

year, where there was a particular phone call that was disturbing and you would notify authorities, but that was really it. now, there are the very personal threats against members of congress that are well articulated and apparently now more grounded in political grievance, and i think the important thing about this data that's coming out about the acceleration of threats against members of congress is it aligns almost perfectly, nicole, with the dhs report and reports from our domestic intelligence units that the rise of largely white nationalist affiliated, white identity political extremism and violence is the great threat to our homeland now. those two cannot really be separated. we know the contributions of the former president to inciting essentially culture wars and turning our politics into matters of culture wars, and i think that's what we're seeing reflected in this acceleration of threats now against elected officials. >> you know, and i started with

the comments from the ex-president because 78% of all republicans still think he's the true president. they think he actually won. we know he didn't. if he had won, bill barr, who is the attorney general, would have made sure to find where all that fraud was. we know that if he had won, rudy giuliani might have prevailed in one of the dozens of cases he brought in courts all across this country from coast to coast. there was no fraud. donald trump lost fair and square. ron johnson was caught on camera admitting such, saying he simply got fewer votes than other republicans on the ballot, and yet, believing that the election was stolen goes hand-in-hand, as david jolly is saying, with this threat of domestic violent extremism. >> yeah. i mean, we've had christopher wray up on capitol hill testify to what david was saying, white supremacy is now the biggest source of violence in the united states, and violence in american

political history is not unique. the country has many incidents, even in recent history, we're marking today, the anniversary of the shooting of jfk. i think what's different now is that it seems to be a form of violence that is being given tacit approval, even fairly openly, from people in the top of american political life. and that is different, because when the message filters down, as those clips that you have played from donald trump, and i'm absolutely convinced that the former president would say that he was just joking and why can't liberals take a joke and, you know, they should be able to laugh this off, but when you have that kind of language repeated from the top, it stirs something up in the bottom, and when you have a certain amount of grievance amongst white supremacists already in the country, it's very easy to stoke those flames and end up with the kind of threats we're having now. you mentioned the congressman who's on your program saying somebody's going to get shot. it really feels like we're in a moment where somebody's going to get shot in this country because

the tension is so high, the level of violence is so high and there's kind of tacit cover being given from america's political leadership and the republican party. >> it's such a chilling reality, but it is where we find ourselves. eddie glaude, this whole braid of -- and katty is right. i mean, christopher wray has been testifying to this in public, openly, since september of the last year of the trump presidency. it is one of the things that drove a wedge between the two men, and there were a lot of concerns among people close to christopher wray that donald trump would fire him because he refused to say that antifa was as grave of a threat as domestic violent extremism fueled by white supremacy. i wonder whether you think we're in greater danger now without -- trump sort of seemed to be like a single avatar for that permission structure. but now you've got the entire republican leadership. you've got kevin mccarthy

saying, paul gosar can stay, liz cheney must go. you've now got the whole structure green lighting this extremism. >> right. i mean, i think the illiberal forces that have now been a matter of american political life are now in full view. i think they have overrun the republican party, and we always kind of exceptionalized donald trump. i'm always thinking about joan didion's work about political fictions, the way in which american politics tends to be me melodramatic. we want our villains, but the rot goes all the way down. what we're seeing are elements of the republican party that you are pretty much familiar with, overrun the party. and i think we need to understand it for what it is, and so it poses a threat to the republic, but it's something that is -- that has always been a part of the republic. it is, at the core of this

existential threat that some feel that the country is no longer the country that they possess, so in short, i agree with you. but i think we need to understand trump as a kind of catalyst to activate what was always there. >> yeah, i mean, eddie, i'm thinking of some of your most powerful moments over the last four years and they have been around this point of, like, this is who we are. this is who we are absent donald trump. and it seems that that is all the more apparent to all of us now. >> right. i mean, oftentimes, what we want to do is displace our sins on to the scapegoat. that this is not us. this is them. whenever we feel a sense of discomfort, that we have lost our footing, that the ground beneath our feet has turned into quick sand, we reach for something. we blame it on someone else. and it's easy for us to kind of

exceptionalize donald trump. to think of him as the, you know, the bad guy, the embodiment of all that is wrong with the country. when, in fact, again, he's just like the surface of the boil. the sickness is in the skin. it's actually in the body. and part of this has to do with, i think, nicole, that us, you and me, americans, having to confront the fact that we don't want to be responsible for the society that we've built. this is what we've been dealing with ever since we refused to try to imagine ourselves as a multiracial democracy since the 1960s. and think about the violence that defined the '60s. this is not the same. but it's an echo of the conflicts that have been at the heart of our democracy since then and before. so, absolutely. >> and tolerance for violence is becoming a hallmark of all republicans. not all republicans are violent, but david jolly, many republicans, including the most popular republican in the country, have thrown their

weight behind republican candidates with a history of violence. david, i want to read you some reporting from politico about pennsylvania republican sean parnell, who's suspending his campaign for senate. parnell, who was endorsed by former president donald trump, lost a fight for custody of his children to his estranged wife. parnell called trump to inform him of the decision to suspend his campaign. it used to be that you couldn't get an endorsement from the standard bearer of any party with a -- an allegation of violence. and this has been adjudicated by a court. he maintains his innocence, but this is what a court has found. and he's not the only one. where does this embrace of violence come from, and where does it end, david? >> it comes from the top, and this is where leadership matters, and leadership influences, particularly

political leadership, and i accept eddie's point, and i agree with him that this is also who we are as a culture, but who we are as a culture also is a culture that tries to teach ourselves away from the bad dispositions and from the dark chapters in history. that try to create for our kids a better, more inclusive lifestyle. we do have that within us as a culture. but when political leadership steps in and taps into that basic human instinct of fear, then we're willing to accept violence, and this is the most critical point that republicans have leaned into, nicole, really, in the last five to ten years. it used to be the political debate among the major parties and major candidates was around that fairness implications of policy from taxes to education to immigration. what's fair? who are the winners and lsers? in society? but what's happened in the last five years based on these culture wars based on race and

demographics is that donald trump and leadership on the right is saying, your vote was taken from you. democracy was taken from you. critical race theory is that your place in society, your privilege is being taken from you. giving civil rights and justice to the lgbt community suggests that your personal convictions and religious convictions are being taken from you and the reason that narrative is so powerful is because now it's not about fairness of policy. now it's about protecting what is yours. if something is being taken from you, then any action to save that is now justifiable, including violence. and that is what donald trump and republican leaders are flirting with. it is why it is so critical. it's an inflection point right you that if we don't get ourselves back from it, now violence will become the norm and something we have to protect against in every election cycle. >> at this point, katty, rooting it out is almost an uphill

battle. almost a third of republicans agree with this statement. true american patriots may have to resort to violence in order to save our country. 17% of independents agree with that statement. 11% of democrats. >> yeah, we've come a long way since even 2019, right, when the whole of the republican caucus voted to strip former congressman steve king of his committee posts because of the things that he had said that sounded like he was cozying up to white supremacy. that was only three years ago. this is moving really rapidly, the degree to which we have more violence in the country and more violent language in the country, and some of it's donald trump, but some of it predates that, and i think what david jolly is saying is right. when groups feel power is shifting away from them, whether it's from white people to people of color, whether it's from men to women, the people who feel they're losing power that they

had as a birthright and by and large that's largely white men, it would be interesting to know the gender split of the poll that you just read there, they feel defensive. they feel power is a zero sum game, and if somebody else is gaining it, they are losing it, and they start fighting to protect it and i think that's the moment we're in now. everybody watching the demographics of america, the whole country knows that by 2044, america becomes a minority white country, and that is having big ripple effects in terms of the country's politics and society, and some of that is playing out in the kind of violent language we're seeing at the moment. but it's condoned by people in the top of the party, and that's what makes it so alarming. >> and i want to read some reporting and eddie, i welcome your thoughts on what katty is saying but i want to introduce this as well. this is from nbc's reporting of what it's like, the reality of being a capitol hill intern now. the congressional management foundation, a nonprofit group that helps members run their offices and engage constituents has advised that in-person

forums, security risk. bradford fitch, the nonprofit's president and ceo sated he also urges staffers to send unknown calls straight to voicemail to spare young aides the verbal abuse. quote, i will give you an anecdote that was very chilling that happened to me recently when i was doing a training for some new interns coming to capitol hill, fitch said. normally, the question you get is, hey, where are the receptions with the free food? instead, the question i got was, i just did my training for answering the phones, and my chief of staff wants me, in cases where we get death threats, to try to get the person calling to give us their name. you got any advice? you have any advice on how i do that? that is a reality of being an intern on capitol hill, eddie. >> right. i mean, look, we have to describe the elements within our country for what they are, right? and what we're seeing here is not only the exploitation of fear. we're seeing that fear mobilized to menace others, to beat them

into submission. to threaten them into submission. this is the drum beat of fascism, and i'm not being hyperbolic here. the illiberal elements of american life have always danced with, right, this ugly underbelly, this ugly underside of the modern west where those who believe that their vision of the world must obtain and they're willing to do anything to make it so. and they're defying not only -- that violence, nicole, that menace is not only directed toward others that look like me or who have a different sexual orientation, who are women, who are immigrants or the like, but it's also directed at those who would dare to ally themselves with the possibility of this new world. and here we are. right? in the middle of the battle. >> in the middle of the battle is a good segue. we have some breaking news. eddie, katty, and david, i'm going to ask you to stay with us. we'll talk this through together. the january 6th select committee investigating the capitol

insurrection has issued a brand-new batch of subpoenas. there are five in total. to keep players involved in the planning of the rallies that took place before the insurrection on january 5th and january 6th. notably, they include trump confidante and advisor roger stone, who spoke at a rally in washington, d.c., on the 5th and was reportedly seen with members of the oath keepers. the oath keepers, of course, a right-wing militia group that federal prosecutors allege methodically planned and organized an attack on the capitol. also subpoenaed this afternoon, right-wing media personality alex jones. alex jones peddled the big lie in the months and weeks leading up to the january 6th insurrection. the committee also ties jones to the money, to the financing of the rally that ultimately led to the march on the capitol that day. david jolly, i want to read a little bit from the roger stone letter. roger stone was reportedly in washington on january 5th and 6th, spoke at rallies on january 5th and was slated to speak at

the january 6th rally at the ellipse that directly preceded the violent attack on the capitol. before traveling to washington, stone promoted his attendance at the rallies and solicited support to pay for security through the website stopthesteal.org. while in washington, stone reportedly used members of the oath keepers as personal security guards, at least one of whom has been indicted for his involvement in the attack on the capitol. stone has made remarks that he was planning to, quote, lead a march on the capitol from the ellipse rally. roger stone, of course, was -- well, he was pardoned by donald trump. he has been in the middle of all of donald trump's high jinks and efforts to corrupt the office of the presidency. your reaction to his subpoena today, david jolly? >> so, as a matter of procedure, i think this group of subpoenas, much like the most recent one,

kayleigh mcenany, steven miller, and others, they will try to forestall their appearances or cooperation pending the steve bannon litigation in federal court. we'll see if the committee is generous enough to do that. i doubt they will be. but i think what it indicates for the january 6th commission right now is they are firmly trying to establish who were the organizers, the actual organizers, right, to pull off an event like this, there has to be an organizational structure. there has to be financing. who was paying the bills? and at what point did any of this touch official trump world? roger stone says, oh, i wasn't part of official trump world, but once they get the network established of who helped organize this event, to finance it, to put it on, to create the infrastructure behind it, then to what level of the white house did it reach? they will then begin to examine the communications between this network to determine which political actors may have been involved personally in the event, to include the president of the united states, and then ultimately, the third level of examination, nicole, is this.

what did you intend to do by organizing this event? this was not simply a grievance rally. this was not a kickoff for 2024. what was your intent of organizing this event and calling people to washington? because what the world saw leads to only one conclusion, which was the violent interruption of the peaceful transfer of power, and at that point, we will have established who orchestrated this event? how far did the communications go? did they touch the white house or not? what was the intent? was it to topple our democracy? >> i want to just bring our viewers up to date. we have just received breaking news, a new batch of subpoenas from the january 6th select committee investigating the insurrection. the new subpoenas are for dustin stockman, who reportedly assisted in organizing the rallies, the events that brought the insurrectionists to washington. jennifer lawrence, who along with her fiance, mr. stockton, reportedly was involved in

organizing rallies following the november 2020 election, included the ellipse rally in washington, d.c., on january 6th that immediately preceded the violent attack on the capitol. taylor, who reportedly solicited a 501(c)(4) organization to conduct a social media and radio advertising campaign encouraging attendance at the january 6th event on the ellipse and advancing unsupported claims about the result of the election. roger stone, as we've been reporting, who was reportedly in washington on the 5th and 6th, and alex jones, as we've also been reporting, for his role in organizing the rally at the ellipse on january 6th that preceded the attack on the capitol, including by facilitating a donation to provide what he described as, quote, 80% of the funding. jones spoke at the january 5th rally in freedom plaza that was sponsored by the 80% coalition. i want to bring into our breaking news coverage, congresswoman madeleine dean of

maryland. congresswoman, i remember so much of the case that was presented was about following the money. i want to read to you from the subpoena for jill lawrence. the select committee's investigation and public reports have revealed credible evidence of your involvement in and knowledge of the events within the scope of the select committee's inquiry. according to documents provided to the select committee, press reports, and your public statements, you and your fiance, dustin stockman, assisted women for america first in organizing a series of rallies held after the november 2020 election in support of then president trump and his allegations of election fraud up through and including the rally held on the ellipse in washington, d.c., on january 6, 2021, on the same day that women for america first submitted the original permit application for the january 6th rally on behalf of wfaf, women for america

first, trump tweeted, quote, big protest in d.c. on january 6th. be there. will be wild. trump spoke at that rally shortly before the attack on the capitol, urging the crowd to, quote, fight much harder and to, quote, stop the steal. a stop the steal website promoting the rally mirrored this message and directed attendees to march to the capitol. fight to stop the steal, and it goes on with all the directions. it would appear, congresswoman, that the committee is already in possession of, quote, credible evidence of the involvement of the groups that financed the events ahead of the insurrection. is that your understanding from this batch of subpoenas today? >> i'm pleased with the batch of subpoenas, so thank you for having me on, nicole. this couldn't be more important information to be following, and i'm very pleased with the power of this committee and the diligence with which they take their commitment to it.

you know, when we were preparing as impeachment managers for impeachment two, under the leadership of jamie raskin, each day, we would talk about, follow the money. we know that these things do not happen out of thin air. we know that there was deep organization around the invitation to come to washington on january 6th, not just any day, but january 6th. the day for the certification of the election where all branches of government would be there. so, it is important that we follow the money, because the money also follows the players, which will connect to the other central question, which is, what did the president know, and when did he know it? >> and i imagine, congresswoman, and i want to, for our viewers, i'm just getting this now, i look like carrie mathis with my different pages. but it appears they have been subpoenaed for their role in the women for america first rally,

which was the official event at which donald trump spoke. it would appear that mr. buddiwich has been subpoenaed for running some of the media, furthering the lie. let me read from his subpoena letter. the select committee's investigation of public reports have revealed credible evidence of your involvement in and knowledge of the events within the scope of the select committee's inquiry. according to information provided to the select committee in press reports, you solicited a 501(c)(4) organization to conduct a social media and radio advertising campaign to encourage people to attend the rally held on the ellipse on january 6th in support of trump and his allegations of fraud. the select committee has reasons to believe your efforts included directing to the 501(c)(4) organization $200,000 from a source or sources that was not disclosed to the organization to pay for the advertising campaign. if these are alleged campaign finance violations, i understand

this is a congressional inquiry, but do you feel that this financial investigation, which appears to be driven by documents already in their possession, may be key to this sort of next stage of what they're trying to do on the 1/6 committee? >> nicole, i've actually thought that all long, that what might take place here is that we'll follow the money and that will be more revealing and more powerful a message to the american public. that this thing was not instantaneous or spontaneous, that this was planned for. that it was funded with hundreds of thousands of dollars, actually, i think we're going to find it's even more than that. so, i've thought all along, early on, pre-insurrection, that if we follow the money, we will find the corruption, we will weed out the wrongdoers and it's incredibly important. i'm preparing tonight for my

first in-person town hall after a very long stretch with covid and impeachment and insurrection and everything else that i can't even begin to catalog, and so my desks look a lot like yours, to be very honest. but i do know that my constituents here in pennsylvania, in the fourth congressional district, suburban philadelphia, would like to get to the bottom of what happened on january 6th because they feel the fear, the preciousness of our democracy and the risk that our democracy is at if we do not get to the bottom of this. take a look at the pieces that are coming together and the days before january 6th. what was going on? the meetings, the plannings, the dollars, the communications. in and around the white house with the chief of staff, with others, with bannon, with, we'll see, roger stone and others. we're going to put this -- sadly, this mosaic together, a mosaic of corruption and indecency and anti-democratic

work, and the truth will be told. >> congresswoman, because it's something you and i have talked about on this program, i have to ask you about something in mr. stone's subpoena that stands out in light of what we've come to learn and understand about the threat posed by self-styled militia groups with ties to white supremacy. the letter to roger stone says this. specifically, you've reportedly spoke on january 5th at rallies at the u.s. supreme court held by a group affiliated with the three percenters and freedom plaza held by the 80% coalition and were originally scheduled to speak at the january 6th rally at the ellipse held by women for america first before traveling to washington, you promoted your upcoming appearance at a january 6th stop the steal event and solicited donations for supporters to pay for security by directing them to stop the steal. while in washington, you've reportedly used members of the oath keepers as personal security guards.

several of whom were reportedly involved in the attack on the capitol and at least one of whom has been indicted. you have stated that you were invited to lead a march to the capitol from the ellipse rally on january 6th but did not end up going -- doing so or going to the ellipse rally at the capitol that day. the committee seeks documents and a deposition regarding these and other matters. what is the committee sort of zeroing in on here? >> i don't know. i'm not on the committee. i don't know the background on that, so i don't want to speculate, except to say one very serious thing. there's zeroing in on the truth. you are listing so many of the tentacles of what was going on, who are these bit players, these corrupt bit players who were in and out, whether it was the willard hotel or some talking in the white house oval office trying to convince, for example, vice president pence in a two-page memo that maybe he really had the authority to undo

an election, the will of the people. so, i know that the committee is extraordinarily ably staffed and obviously ably formed to get at the truth. interesting, what the role will be revealed of the women for america first. remember what's going on here. all of this is based on a tarmac of lies. an awful lot of these people believed what they were told, and so their anger festers from these lies, and of course we know players like roger stone and bannon and others have fomented those lies. we need to break the fever of these lies, and that is what i think the january 6th commission is getting after. >> congresswoman, i want to bring in former member of that body on this point that you're making about breaking the fever.

david jolly, alex jones was most recently in the news for losing a defamation case from the families of sandy hook for lies that he furthered about that heinous tragedy. but he's back in the news today. he's been subpoenaed by the 1/6 committee and this gets at the heart of, i think, one of the questions outsiders may have had about what their investigation looked like behind the scenes. i want to read this. it's lengthy, but i think it's important. "the investigation and public reports have revealed credible evidence of your involvement" this is alex jones's involvement --" within the scope of the select committee's inquiry. according to press reports and statements by you, you worked with cindy chaffian and caroline wren to help organize the january 6th, 2021, women for america rally held on the ellipse in washington, d.c., including by facilitating a donor now known to be julie to provide you what you characterized as 80% of the funding. president trump spoke at the

rally shortly before the attack on the capitol, urging the crowd to, quote, fight much harder and to, quote, stop the steal. you were reportedly denied a speaking slot at the wfaf, that's women for america first, event but at the request of president trump, you were offered a venue to and did, in fact, speak at the january 5, 2021, rally on freedom plaza sponsored by ms. chaffian's 80% coalition." by hair went back on the back of my neck when i read this part. "at the request of trump." they know what trump wanted these events on january 5th and january 6th to look like, including the speakers. >> yeah. no, that's exactly right, nicole. first of all, these are bad people. alex jones, roger stone. these are bad people. roger stone was headed to jail. alex jones, we know the grief he's caused families related to the sandy hook shooting. these are really bad people that donald trump involved in this rally. i think to the question of, what

is the committee seeking with this moment? and i agree with congresswoman dean, you know, we're not on the committee. there's no way to actually know, but there is an important question here, and it is this. what was the coordination that would move this event from a rally on the 6th to the march on the capitol? the march on the capitol must have been pre-planned. it was not instantaneous. it was not just, we're going to have this rally on the 6th and people can go peacefully petition their members of congress in the senate. clearly, there was a group of people, and this may be where roger stone and alex jones and others come in, because they're shameless individuals. clearly, there was a group of people that participated in the coordination of moving this from the event stage to the march, and exciting that march and igniting that march to one that turned violent, and i think, as the committee puts together the pieces of funding, of infrastructure, of organization, how wide did this net cast, who were the players, then the question is asked, and at what

point was there coordination to march to the capitol with the idea that this could inevitably lead to the violent overthrow of the 2020 election? >> katty kay, i want to continue reading from alex jones's subpoena because there are more clues about what they know already about white house involvement. this is to alex jones from the 1/6 committee. though you did not speak at the ellipse rally, you were there. as you have stated, the white house told you on or about january 3, 2021, that after the ellipse rally ended on january 6th, you were to lead a march to the capitol where president trump would meet the group. you did, in fact, march from the ellipse rally to the capitol, accompanied by ali alexander, also known as alley abdul razak akbar and others. when you arrived at the capitol, you were recorded telling people not to be violent and to gather on the east side of the capitol to hear president trump speak. that location coincided with a

site for which mr. alexander's stop the steal has organized and obtained a permit for a rally that day, though using the name, one nation under god. president trump, however, did not leave the white house to come to the capitol. so, the 1/6 committee is aware of communications between the white house and alex jones that happened on the day of january 3, 2021, where they were specifically planning for alex jones to lead a group of trump supporters from the rally on the ellipse to the capitol. that is a remarkable new piece of evidence of how much information they have about what the white house was telling the rally organizers, katty. >> yeah, i mean, these subpoenas are really interesting because they give us some sense of what information the committee is already in possession of and that communication between the white house and alex jones, we didn't know of before. i mean, remember, during that speech on the ellipse, i

remember listening to it, donald trump did say he was going to meet them all at capitol hill. he openly said that. and then, of course, he didn't actually go down there and we know what happened. i think you have to go perhaps even one step beyond what david jolly is talking about. it's not so much the movement from the ellipse to the march on the capitol that is critical for the committee to establish. it's the intent. it's what we were talking about earlier. was there an -- was it intended to go beyond a march to the capitol and the -- and then attack the capitol? and that must be what the committee is laser focused on, either through chasing the money or through chasing these communications. we know that donald trump was stoking fury. he did it quite openly. we all know that. we know that all of these people were planning a march. we know that they were planning even to march towards the capitol, the president himself said that when he was standing on the stage in the ellipse. what we don't know is whether there was a premeditation to attack congress. and that's what the committee's

all about. that seems to me the bottom line of this committee. they have to show that there was premeditation to attack congress. we don't know what else the committee has at the moment, and maybe these subpoenas will reveal that, but that's the question of intent. >> and i think, to that, the letter goes the farthest that we have seen so far, eddie glaude, in helping us understand the net they're casting around intentional incitement. the letter goes on to focus on alex jones's role in terms of what he whipped up through his, i don't know what it is, a webcast or a podcast, infowars? it says this. in the lead-up to the events of january 6th, you and others on infowars repeatedly promoted trump's allegations of election fraud and urged people to come to washington, d.c., for the january 6th ellipse rally and made statements implying that you had knowledge about the plans of president trump with respect to the rally. indeed, after trump tweeted on saturday, december 19th, quote, big protest in d.c. on january

6th, be there, will be wild, you went on infowars the same day and called the tweet, quote, one of the most historic events in american history. you continued. finally, trump has done the right thing. he's now calling on we the people to take action and to show our numbers. this is the most important call to action on domestic soil since paul revere and his ride in 1776. the time for games is over. the time for action is now. where were you when history called? where were you when you and your children's destiny and future was on the line? i have been on the air 27 years, and i have never reported on anything that comes as close to being this huge. this is seismic. it goes on. eddie, your thoughts to this incredible body of conduct of alex jones being clearly and now publicly under scrutiny by the

1/6 committee. >> well, it gives us a sense of the scope of the investigation. it makes concrete what many of us saw and intuited. it shows us that the 1/6 committee is trying to hold people accountable. i'm actually kind of blown away by this, because it gives, again, it gives us some detail of the level of coordination. it goes to katty's point still holds in terms of intent and the like. what the level of premeditation, but you know what i'm thinking here, nicole? as the 1/6 committee continues to do its work, i'm wondering about what happens in the interim to our democracy? to link the conversations. this news, which is so important, the work that the 1/6 committee is doing, which is so critical, and they have to do it methodically and transparently as best they can, but what is happening in the interim, the very forces that were behind the

1/6 insurrection are in the process, as the committee is doing its work, of unraveling our democracy as we try to expose what they did on january 6th. in attacking the capitol. it's a really mind-boggling moment, it seems to me. >> well, david jolly, what is clear is that they have combed over all of donald trump's allies and all the people tied to the event at the ellipse who had a speaking role and they have gone back and examined what their role was in drawing people to washington, d.c., that day. and to katty's point and to the congresswoman's point, they're examining incitement and intent to incite. i want to read more from what is in this letter or this subpoena for alex jones. they say that, you said this on your show. if you allow this multinational consortium to steal our election, you have committed not just us but yourselves to a living hell. trump is trying to do a lot of good things and he was president and he was re-elected. if you feel like you're being robbed and you've seen the

evidence of that and you're upset and you have that bad sinking feeling we've all got, stand up and speak out and promote this massive event coming up in d.c. on january 6th where a sitting u.s. president for the first time in my lifetime is calling on americans to march on d.c. to save our country from a foreign takeover. this is so real, this is so epic, this is so historic, this is so incredibly dangerous, if we don't take action, i know you will, and i know we're going to see ten million people in washington, d.c., on january 6th, and i'm going to be there. now, if you choose to accept this mission, take this video at band.video and share it with everyone you know, because if you don't take action, we'll be defeated, and if you do take action, we will win. god bless and good luck. the 1/6 committee adds this in their subpoena for alex jones. on december 31, 2020, matt baracken stood in for you as a guest host on the alex jones show. mr. bracken stated during the broadcast while images of qanon-related tattoos were

displayed, two with the acronym, wwg1ga, meaning, where we go one, we go all, quote, we're not going to be saved by anybody above us. we're going to only be saved by millions of americans moving to washington, occupying the entire area. if necessary, storming right into the capitol. we know the rules of engagement. if you have enough people, you can push down any kind of fence or a wall. but if not enough patriots show up, then we're just going to watch our freedom go down the drain. the select committee seeks documents in a deposition regarding these and other matters. they have alex jones's program, broadcasting, an occupation of the united states capitol. they clearly want to know. >> wow, wow. >> who called in those orders. david jolly? >> they do, because on its face, that's an incitement to commit violence. there will be constitutional protections around those communications, but that's exactly what it is. it was a suggestion that if need be, we have to stop the

certification of the election by mass force. nicole, as we're covering this, this round of subpoenas actually sheds right on a conversation i recently had with someone who attended the january 6th rally and marched to the capitol. i found myself in a conversation with someone. i was a little surprised when they said, oh, yeah, i was there. but their version of the story was fascinating. they responded to the big lie, to the grievance, to show up on january 6th. they marched to the capitol, and he said to me, he said, but you know what was interesting? we marched to the capitol, and we took the stairs, but there was this group of people ten feet away that were scaling walls and letting off, you know, smoke grenades or whatever it might be, and where we entered the capitol peacefully, there were people shattering windows, and he said we looked at them like they were crazy. we didn't know what they were doing. now, notwithstanding the judgment of this individual, what it says to me, this round of subpoenas, is clearly there was coordination to get certain people at the january 6th event

to lead in the violent insurrection. and the question is, who coordinated getting those people there? we know the appeal you can make to the mass constituency that feels aggrieved politically to come to a rally. that can be done for good purposes or bad, in any chapter in political history. but i think what these subpoenas indicate is they now know that there was a network at work that was largely intending to violently take the capitol that day, and were going to do so within this broad mass of people who thought they were attending a grievance rally related to the 2020 election. >> just to underscore, we know the 1/6 committee knows this. that when it comes to alex jones, the 1/6 committee says this, you were reportedly denied a speaking slot but at the request of donald trump, you were offered a venue to and did, in fact, speak at the january 5, 2021, rally on freedom plaza. sponsored by the 80% coalition. we're going to have much more on

this breaking news, this new batch of five subpoenas that seems to focus in on the organizers. the house select committee investigating january 6th has subpoenaed roger stone, alex jones, two of the organizers of the event on the ellipse. we're going to turn to our legal friends for some analysis of what we're seeing. we'll be right back after a short break. e're seeing. we'll be right back after a short break.

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breaking news that the january 6th select committee investigating the deadly insurrection has issued five new subpoenas this afternoon. they include two household names, if you've covered the trump story, roger stone and alex jones. perhaps more notable is this one. this one is a subpoena for dustin stockman. it says this, according to press reports, you and others working for and with wfaf, the organizers for the january 6th rally collectively communicated with perez. white house officials including chief of staff mark meadows plan to coincide -- you reportedly were concerned about plans by the stop the steal movement to organize an unpermitted martha would reach the steps of the capitol as congress certified the election results, so much so that amy kromer, chair, felt they needed to urgtdly worn the

white house of the possible danger. you reportedly were of the view that quote, a last minute march without -- felt unsafe. i'm going to bring into our conversation, my colleague ligh ann caldwell. two revelatory things in this letter. one, we know that the organizers were concerned about violence. they thought it would be unsafe and we know that they know that the white house chief of staff was warned of that. >> reporter: that's right, nicolle. also an interesting thing is the mention of amy cremer. she's someone who has been subpoenaed before several weeks ago. she's in an earlier batch of subpoenas. we've gotten no indication she's not cooperating. based on what this letter says, we could assume that perhaps she is talking to the committee, and this most recent batch of subpoenas, this is focused on people who did organize the

rallies on the 5th and the 6th, but also who financed them. we have been hearing from these committee members for weeks and months now that one of the things they are more interested in is who financed this movement to stop the steal. and with alex jones and roger stone, it looks like they're going to attempt to get at it. the committee is releasing these subpoenas in batches. they all are related to each other like today as we just mentioned, people who organized the rally and also perhaps funded it. before there was a batch of subpoenas including mark meadows of the former president's closest advisers. then there was a batch of people who were in very close proximity to the former president on the morning of january 6th and even on january 5th. a lot of those people, they have a subpoena deadline coming up tomorrow. that includes jason miller,

kayleigh mcenany, bill stepien, the former trump campaign manager, people who had spoken to the president during that time and who were in close proximity to him. the subpoena deadline for tomorrow is for them to reveal documents, to turn over some documents. we'll see if they comply. also, today is another subpoena deadline. that's for john eastman, the conservative writer who wrote that six-page memo outlining how vice president pence could overturn the election. he still has a few hours left. the committee hasn't commented on the he has complied or not. that's a deadline we're also watching. >> congresswoman dean, i want to ask you about this point my colleague is making. we don't know who is complying because the folks who make headlines are the ones that defy the committee and, therefore, face referrals, steve bannon and

mark meadows has indicated he doesn't plan to cooperate. what's your sense of the potential impact on that referral on the rest of the witnesses that this committee is seeking testimony and documents from? >> well, i think it was a very good day for the rule of law and send a signal that you can't ignore a congressional subpoena. i'm delighted with that. i've had a chance to talk with jamie raskin on and off the floor in terms of what they're doing and how they're moving forward, the cooperation they're getting from many people, the information they're gathering for many people. something i wanted to emphasize is what you all spoke about, which is to what end did they have this rally? why the coordination? why the funding? why on that day? and when did the rally go from rally to march to riot to insurrection? to what end? you know anybody involved in the planning of this, and it's pretty clear the president had some involvement in setting up a

b list stage for the likes of alex jones, who happened to have said that echo, the president in his own remarks that day said, and i'll be right there with you. i'll be going up pennsylvania avenue with you. alex jones saying the president will be meeting us here. nobody goes through that level of planning, coordination and funding without an end goal. guys, what are we doing this for? what they were doing it for is obviously what happened, an attempted coup, an attempt to overthrow and interview with the peaceful transfer of power that our country is so known for. sadly, this has not ended, and you and i have talked about this many, many times. we are at risk of this happening again in the next election cycle when somebody loses again. and instead of accepting the loss says i don't accept it, so we have to resort to violence. >> it wasn't our plan for today,

but we're really grateful that we had you lined up to be here for the breaking news. thank you so much for being part of our coverage. >> my pleasure being with you. >> let me add to our conversation and coverage harry lippman, former u.s. attorney. i have read from all of these letters now, and there are more references to what donald trump said and did and knew than in any other batch of subpoenas. what is your sense of how much they know about donald trump's conduct in and around january 6th? >> a lot. this is the harvest, nicolle of the 150 or so people who are cooperating. they're not shooting in the dark, the committee here. these are at a minimum thought through supposition. the people that took it from a peaceful rally to a conflagration and brought the

horns and the weapons. it screams out that these are the people in communication with trump and his circle including meadows. this looks to be -- you can't say for sure, but it looks to be a kind of leapfrog move, among other things, to really communicate with the people who have to deliver subpoenas today and tomorrow, but to trump himself. this is an intermediary move to getting at that people who, if anyone did, were actually planning with the former president from who's on the stage to "i will be there with you." his actual role in not the rally but the conflagration is now front and center for the committee. that's who these five people are. >> harry, we appreciate you pulling over and being part of our coverage to help us understand this. i want to read something else that jumped out at me and calls for context. this is the subpoena for mr.

budawich. it focuses on the money that flowed into and out of a 501(c)(3) corporation, encouraging people to attend the rally held on the ellipse on january 6th in support of then president trump. they cite the money going in, donald trump bragging about raising $3 million. it would appear that campaign finance allegations of potentially running afoul of campaign finance laws might have proven effective at bringing michael cohen around to cooperating. is that perhaps your view of one of the messages in these letters? >> possibly. that don't need a crime to be investigating. we want to know what happened. they want to know what happened. i think there's supposition from the start. you can see this, that the actual assault on the capitol didn't happen spontaneously. it's very unlikely that it would. you do need money.

you do need planning. you do need coordination. so that's something that's completely front and center for them to understand whether or not they can pin a campaign finance violation on it or not. yes, there are different crimes. up to and including conspiracy to commit insurrection. but really their ear looking at what the hell happened here and a very critical part of it, what did the president know and when did he know it? i think that's when they're zeroing in independent of any specific other crime. >> a perfect place to leave it for us. harry litman, leigh ann caldwell, eddie glaude, david jolly, katty kay, thank you for being part of what wasn't our plan, but the breaking coverage of the hour. "the beat with ari melber" starts right now. >> hi, nicolle. welcome to "the beat." we're tracking the breaking news nicolle just referenced. the new