prepare it to take in something quite new, something 180 degrees different from what we normally show you this time of night. because coming up next right here msnbc is about to bring you the world premier of an award winning movie, a documentary called "paper and glue." this is definitely not your normal friday night news coverage, but trust me it's amazing. you're going to be glad you checked it out, and it starts right now.

♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

>> thank you for having me.

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

--

♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

--

♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ --

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

[ muted ]

♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪

[ muted ]

♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

[ muted ]

♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ [ muted ]

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

[ muted ] ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

welcome to msnbc. i'm ayman mohyeldin. jr's latest documentary is all about "paper and glue" literally makes us see people who were often marginalized and unseen. and i'm joined now by the man behind it all, photographer, director and artist jr. what an incredible movie. congratulations to you and your team. i remember watching this and i cried, i laughed, i was provoked, and it made me think about what you're going through as you come up with your art. talk to us a little bit about the process. how do you decide where do you go next to tell a story and see the unseen? >> well, you know, the process

is the art. and actually one of the inmates -- i think it's david who says it and got it like right in the moment -- like the art and the picture doesn't matter. it's the process we'll remember forever. one of the thing said i love is i don't know what's next. you know when people ask you what's next, and you're like oh, i don't know what's next. later i realize it opens all the possibilities because you're going to be surprised. a lot of this project i didn't even know the week before i was about to do them. but of course it means staying alert, staying curious. and that's what i do all the time. and i usually go to projects that have more risk of failure than success. >> one of the themes in the movie at least for me i was just saying was it's about the unseen. you find a way to see people who were unseen, and you started out with a powerful story inside a

super max prison. and that's not something most people would think of wanting to even see. talk to us a little bit why you decided to go there, what were you trying to see when you went to that prison? >> look, i've always been curious about the prisons and the prison project. maybe because when i was a kid i almost got into prison by following the wrong people, and it was something even when i travel in those countries legally, i always face prison. i got arrested and sometimes they keep me overnight. in some countries i got evicted. so it's not easy work in all the places i go to. but this one i haven't realized how much walking in a place which is a maximum security even a super max prison, how art would impact people who were between walls. and it's like a micro-society where suddenly the impact of the art would be like 100 time

bigger because they have no access to art whatsoever. i never saw that coming, so the change was, like, literally within days and beak weeks and months. and now it's been two years, but the impact was huge in there. the inmates would tell you, the guards would tell you. i never saw that coming. if you look at those you see in the film all of them have been moved to a lower security prison. actually he's good behavior, he should be out by now, why is he not out? and you realize, wow, sometimes you need the excuse of the art to create conversation in the prison between the guards and inmates, and suddenly the system look at them in a whole different way. it doesn't mean they didn't need to pay for what they've done, but at some point how long are you going to keep those guys? forever? there's really this thing are we

willing to forgive? and that's a deeper question we can all think of, and i don't have the answer for that. but that really challenged me when i was there. who would you give a second chance? >> so much of your work as you mentioned is about process, and it's transitory because it doesn't last forever. as an artist how do you feel about the fact your art doesn't last forever when you see art ests are trying to create things with a sense of permanence. >> that's why i document it. that's why i have all those archives because i can keep them. later i realize the power. first of all you don't impose something on someone forever. even if it was just there for a moment, you never forget it. you see this kid looking over the wall. he's not there anymore, but now when you saw him, you'll think of him each time you see the wall. i don't need him to be all over

the world at every place. you just reminded each place you go. i think art has that power to get in your mind. and you don't at which point it will actually impact you or how it will change your per sepgds about a place. and changing your perception about a place might be a way of changing the way you see the world and can lead to change the world. >> there's no doubt you changed the perception of people about the favelas in rio. i think that was a very powerful moment in the movie, and you connect people with the art. what's it like when you're able to take a place like the favelas that are there in a visible sight of a lot of people in rio and the rest of the country, but they don't have a connection to it. >> what happens is simple. the people who live on the hill they look like we should never go there, and suddenly on the media people got killed and all

those people, don't go there. a majority of the people 80%, 90% are people who live there because they don't have a choice. they go to work and come back every day, and then there's 10%, 15% of the people who might be drugs and violent. when suddenly you put the eyes of the women all over the hill and people from the city look at that and are like who are those women? and at that time i didn't do any interview. and the helicopter flew over and asked who are those people, we don't have any information. and people from the favela say it's us, it's us. and when i watched those interviews on television in brazil of the women explaining what it meant for them, how they wanted to change the narrative of how they were seen, then i understand this is the power. because they suddenly took over

their own narrative, and suddenly the media had another chance than violence to talk about this place. >> you try to shy away from politics, and certainly you don't see the presence of politics. you see the consequences of politics in the work you do and where you go, but is that by design? do you not want to weigh in on political situations that are unfolding especially when you're looking at something like a border wall between the u.s. and mexico, or, you know, the rise of the right in france with the areas you've done art projects that have been vilified by politicians and the right wing? >> yes, it's a great question. i think there's a few things there. one, i'm an artist, so i should stamp my position. i raise questions, i don't bring answers. who am i to say that the wall should be bigger or smaller. i wasn't born here. i can raise questions around the world, put a little kid and you can think about it. but it's not my place to speak for the people here who live by this wall in this country, but i

can at least bring in another perspective on the wall. so when it comes to my country in france and what's happening there, yes, of course, i'm trying to say, okay, what can i do? and a lot of my work sometimes goes into the social impact. and sometimes then it's not even my work anymore. it's just the consequences of my work. in paris we've opened a restaurant for homeless and refugees. we even started a school to train the new political leaders of tomorrow by taking people on the ground who are already doing amazing work on the ground but would never think about going into politics. we train them if they want to jump, but we let them choose which side of politic they want to get into. i want to stay in my place, and i think the energy and impact my work creates, creates enough how do you say implication of communities for them after to see what is the best for them. but i'm not here to basically infringe them in any way to say this is what you should do. >> i've got to ask you about a

project you recently did in my country of birth, egypt. we have a picture thereof the pyramids. tell us what that was. >> during the pandemic we actually flew there and we scouted. i was excited because finally we could do it that month and that piece that stayed up for one month, and even became an nft. so people own a little section of it. it's exciting because, first of all, the head of the pyramid and ministry of antiquities said we can do this art project, but the truth is there were another seven, eigh artists, but the truth is there's no need for attention for the pyramid. it's the pyramid. >> it sounds very egyptian. >> what was very interesting after that actually it had bring so much more people to the pyramid, people who needed

another excuse to go and that was another occasion to come by and boast. and all the people who came there were like they never worked so much their whole life than during this period of the exhibition. with artists you don't suspect the power of it. you're like yeah, whatever, we're doing an exhibition, and whoa, is that really what it creates? >> it leads me to my final question for you at least before we take a quick break, which is when you started out on the streets of paris, did you ever think that your art would take you to such a global scale? >> i never because i didn't even know there was such a global scale, you know? i was so naive. i didn't even know there were galleries where you could show and hang your work. i think i started so naive about this whole thing because i was never brought up to learn about art or know about art. i didn't even suspected it, and, you know, i started with graffiti to really say, hey, i exist. don't forget about me.

i wrote my name here. if you look at graffiti all the way to the egyptians, you know, 5,000 years ago they were already writing never to be forgotten. and when you go there and visit the site it's like, wow, that's a trace of i was there. graffiti is the exact same feeling. i think we have it how are we going to be remembered. and so i switched that to say how are they going to be remembered. >> do you know where it takes you next? >> i never know. >> i do want to bring in some of the other people you introduced us to, like kevin, the inmate you met in the maximum security prison. right after this quick break. im prison right after this quick break ins designed to help you keep more of what you earn. this is the planning effect. at intra-cellular therapies, we're inspired by our circle. a circle that includes our researchers, driven by our award-winning science, who uncover new medicines to treat mental illness.

it includes the compassionate healthcare professionals, the dedicated social workers, and the supportive peer counselors we work with to help improve - and even change - people's lives. moving from mental illness to mental wellness starts in our circle. this is intra-cellular therapies. c'mon caleb, you got this! and if you don't, there are other options! umpire: ball! good eye! good eye! eyes are good for lots of things. like reading! be the best, caleb! statistically impossible, caleb. umpire: strike three, you're out! you'll get 'em next time! or you won't, probably won't. and it won't impact your future whatsoever! talk to us about college planning today. feel comfortable about tomorrow. massmutual.

feel comfortable about tomorrow. ♪ ♪ ♪ massmutual. ♪ ♪ ♪ with chase security features, guidance and convenience, banking feels good. chase. make more of what's yours.

this is elodia. she's a recording artist. 1 of 10 million people that comcast has connected to affordable internet in the last 10 years. and this is emmanuel, a future recording artist, and one of the millions of students we're connecting throughout the next 10. through projectup, comcast is committing $1 billion so millions more students, past... and present, can continue to get the tools they need to build a future of unlimited possibilities. small businesses like yours make gift-giving possible. now, comcast business has an exclusive gift for you. introducing the gift of savings sale. for a limited time, ask how to get

a great deal for your business. and get up to a $500 prepaid card with select bundles when you switch to the network that can deliver gig speeds to the most businesses. or get started with internet and voice for $64.99 per month with a 2-year price guarantee. give your business the gift of savings today. comcast business. powering possibilities. we are back with jr talking about his new documentary "paper and glue." and jr, as you made clear in the film it's not actually only about the art for you, it's about the people you meet. i want to bring in one of those people you introduced us to in the documentary when he was serving time at the maximum prison. and he's now out of prison and

tattoo-free, we should note. thank you for being here. we saw you making that pact to get that tattoo removed. how did you get that tattoo removed? >> thanks for having me. i got out like middle of november, and like the second day we were out we went down. and we did some tattoo removal. it's not covered up completely, but i was blessed to have this amazing woman named shawn show me how to apply somep make-up and give me the cosmetics to do so. >> tell me about the experience and making that phenomenal art piece with him. how did it change the course of your life, and do you attribute that art to changing the course of your life? >> i think it shined a spotlight on things we were already doing. for a while we had been learning to internalize thing we were

picking up in these self-help groups. for me i had this board coming up, andiest trying to come home in the least amount of time possible after years of destruction. and inside i think words are kind of meaningless. actions have to speak louder than your words and everything, right? and we really started to do this. when these guys came in it shined a spotlight on all these little things because sometimes it's hard to get away from the past. everyone is going to have these perceptions of you. especially with me having the tattoo. so it really shined a light for people to start breaking down these walls and start approaching us. >> it seems this chance meeting you had with kevin had a profound impact on his life when you look at where he is now and what he's doing. talk to us for a second. how do you not judge a person seeing a swastika tat to and

saying i want to avoid this person? >> yeah. when i met kevin that was my first question to him. i said what's your tattoo, sir. and almost like not that he forgot about it, but no one was looking at him this way in the prison anymore. they all knew he had gone behind this tattoo. it's just that in there you can't remove this tattoo. you would ask anyone from different ethnicity in there like kevin is a great guy, of course he's a loving person. but i would tell him, look, how can you be with this on your face? and he was like, no, no, you don't understand. i would remove it in a heartbeat. i'm just stuck with it in here. it seems like the right thing to do for someone with a swastika on his face. he came out like two weeks now and the first thing he came out was go and remove that tattoo. and it was done actually by a woman who at the end of the session told him who better than me than a jewish doctor to do it

to you? you can see on the videos on my instagram page and it just needs one person that says flag this post because it has a swastika in it. and nobody flagged the post. everyone was touched by his story and like you know what, i believe this man. >> how has it changed? and what are you planning on doing? >> i've been taking it slow with family, taking care of things i need to integrate with society. i got things done like the dmv, all my documentation, my bank account, all these cool things normal people have. and now i can breathe. >> kevin first thing that's all he have in mind like he said is to give back and help. and he already doing volunteer work all around him, and it's just been two weeks. but we talk, we face time every other day and we stayed in touch

with all my team. and i know there's a lot we're going to do together. my team, we're like a lot of people that have met around the world -- >> it seems like a movement and not a team. kevin, and just want to say really quickly, thank you so much for your time. we appreciate what you're doing and best of luck to you as you go forward. >> thank you very much. you have a good day. all right, jr. >> see you, brother. >> i guess my question to you is what's next? where do you go from here? >> it's, you know, i love not knowing what's next. and i think those projects like the prison project where two days before i would jump in and all those other projects i literally just saw like we should do this now, you remember i self-finance my work because i don't take any money from corporations or brands or sponsors. so it only comes from the sales of my artworks so my prints. so thousands of people who go online and say let me buy a

print from jr. so the money goes back into it. that's something i try to protect. it's been 20 years like that. so it leads me to total freedom as an artist. >> i can safely say i'll follow you anywhere you go, and i'm sure millions of other people who follow your art will do the same. congratulations. incredible documentary. thank you at home for joining us. and that does it for us here in studio 3a at rockefeller center. i'm ayman mohyeldin. good night. psoriatic arthritis. but we are so much more. we're team players and artists. designers and do-it-yourselfers. parents and friends. if joint pain is getting in the way of who you are, it's time to talk to your doctor about enbrel. enbrel helps relieve joint pain, and helps stop permanent joint damage. plus enbrel helps skin get clearer in psoriatic arthritis. ask your doctor about enbrel, so you can get back to your true self. play ball!

enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, nervous system and blood disorders and allergic reactions have occurred. tell your doctor if you've been someplace where fungal infections are common. or if you're prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure, or if you have persistent fever, bruising, bleeding or paleness. don't start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. visit enbrel.com to see how your joint damage could progress. enbrel. eligible patients may pay as little as $5 per month. ♪ ♪ no two dreams are the same. but there is one van equipped to handle them all.

for over 120 years, mercedes-benz vans have been built, upfitted and ready to go. because we believe dreams - should never stay that way. with relapsing forms of ms... there's a lot to deal with. not just unpredictable relapses. all these other things too. it can all add up. kesimpta is a once-monthly at-home injection... that may help you put these rms challenges in their place. kesimpta was proven superior at reducing the rate of relapses, active lesions, and slowing disability progression vs aubagio. don't take kesimpta if you have hepatitis b, and tell your doctor if you have had it, as it could come back. kesimpta can cause serious side effects, including infections. while no cases of pml were reported in rms clinical trials, it could happen. tell your doctor if you had or plan to have vaccines, or if you are or plan to become pregnant. kesimpta may cause a decrease in some types of antibodies.

the most common side effects are upper respiratory tract infection, headache, and injection reactions. ready for an at-home treatment with dramatic results? it's time to ask your doctor about kesimpta.

thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. happy to have you here on a friday night. we'll start tonight with a story we first brought you last week and today took a new sort of baffling turn. if you saw our coverage of the story last week, you'll remember it, because it starts with a really unsettling 911 call. this was just over a year ago, december 6th last year, just before 10:00 p.m. on december 6th and a woman named ruby freeman in cop county, georgia, the suburbs of georgia called 911. it was not the first time