♪♪ hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. we are watching dawson springs, kentucky, devastated over weekend by those deadly tornados. president biden spent the morning surveying the damage and visiting survivors in kentucky. we will bring you his remarks when they start. we begin today in uncharted territory in terms of the places the depths into which the twice impeached expresident is leading us. the slow assault on democracy doesn't come into view often enough to sustain the public's attention and drive a national conversation but there are clear signs that that's about to change. right now in no small part due the republican liz cheney's commitment to row vealing the trump led gop and trump himself

as culpable, they are hearing modern day versions of the nixon tapes. donald trump could turn the insurrection off with a light switch. cheney's outage of access of information that fueled the insurrection leaving trump's inner circle sweating, culminating in a late night vote last night to hold mark meadows in contempt of congress, a body in which he once serve. cheney one of two republicans, along with adam kinzinger to vote to hold meadows accountable for stonewalling the january 6th investigation. last night she put her party on notice for its moral failings in response to the insurrection. >> all of my colleague, all of them, knew that what happened on january 6th was an assault on your constitution. they knew it at the time. yet now they are defending the indefensible. whether we tell the truth, get to the truth, and defend ourselves against it ever

happening again is the moral test of our time. how we address january 6th is our moral test of our generation. >> moral test of our generation. wow. cheney's acknowledgment of this, this inflection point in our history comes as new evidence continues to come the light about efforts to overturn the 2020 election result. and mark meadows' role as a driving force behind those efforts. here's congressman adam schiff on a text to meadows about the efforts to install a trump loyalist at d.o.j. to help invalidate the electoral vote count. >> one of the texts to met owes on january 3rd came from an unknown caller and referred to efforts to replace the leadership of the department of justice and said the following "i heard jeff clark is getting put in on monday. that's amazing. it will make a lot of patriots happy. and i'm personally so proud that you are at the tip of the spear. and i can call you a friend". >> the mounting question's about

donald trump's potential criminal exposure is where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. "washington post" congressional correspondent jaky al meany is here. pete strzok is here, and joyce vance joins us. i want to warn everybody and apologize in advance. if the president starts speaking in that tornado-ravaged part of kentucky, we will interrupt this conversation and listen to him. jackie, you have been on this story. liz cheney elevating both the evidence and the calling that she's obviously heard to out the republican party and try to purge it of all of this. >> yeah. nicolle, it's really been a blockbuster week, and pretty remarkable to see liz cheney read these texts in real time, which was clearly a deliberate effort to reveal these texts for the very first time.

i think what made it especially powerful is a lot of these texts are for the first time in their own words, in the words of a lot of the people who were involved in the efforts to overturn the results of the election or delay the electoral certification. and i think the range we've seen of some panic from people who have now down played january 6th to some people actually being disappointed at the results because it meant that ultimately they failed in their quest to fulfill the efforts of people like mark meadows and the former president in actually achieving that. but i think what this week has also illuminated is just how close to the former president and the one degree of separation there was between a lot of these fringe conspiracy theories and the oval office and trump and that mark meadows was a key person in being the liaison and the conduit for it. he has certainly come into prominent view this week as lawmakers have tried to make the case that he should be held in

criminal contempt. and then jeffrey clark has also been a name that has cropped up a lot, and his relationship and what the triangle was between meadows, jeffrey clark, a former d.o.j. official who was willing to do trump's bid asking take some of this false information and try use official resources to continue to sniff it out, and trump. and it is just the start of the committee trying to paint a public story, and a compelling story that worry going to be following close attention to see in vivid detail next year. >> a new phase, and the evidence is doing the talking. you caught my attention for your characterization of this dynamic. this is from the "new york times" reporting. the panel said it has questions about meadows' use of a personal cell phone, a signal account, and two personal gmail accounts for government business. whether he had properly turned

over those records to the national archives. you talk about the use of directing someone to signal, pete, and i want to read this -- organized criminals, drug cartels, terrorists and pedophiles, to avoid law enforcement. what questions, pete, do you have about mark meadows sort of -- the traffic that you are seeing? what leads would you believe investigators on the committee are pursuing? >> well, nicolle, i think the things that we are seeing are pointings to just how much we don't know at this point. for your viewers, signal signal is an application that allows you to send messages back and forth in an encrypted environment. now, i have no objection to signal as an application, but i have every objection to the use of signal to conduct the clandestine coordination behind a coup attempt to unseat the incoming president of the united states. and when you are using things like signal, this is something that intelligence officers do, this is something that terrorists do, this is something that pedophiles do, this is

something that criminals use to avoid detection by law enforcement, to avoid law enforcement prosecutors to understand what's going on and to prevent them from being a case -- or building a case. >> let me interrupt for one second. >> sure. >> president biden is speaking rhett now in kentucky. let's listen to that. >> she is about to graduate from uk on friday. on friday. and i just want you to meet him. i'm sorry to keep you all waiting but i got a chance to hang out with the whole extended family down there. i want you to meet a soon to be graduate who wants to go on to graduate school. come up here, hon. >> we are proud of you. we are proud of you. >> what's your first name? >> abbey. >> abbey is here. and we are going to figure something special for her graduation day. but imagine that. this friday she graduates from uk. i would kid and say the best

thing to come out of kentucky was my sister-in-law. she's all blue. she went to uk, then she went to duke law school. and she married my brother. we are all thankful to her for marrying my brother. anyway, you have got to remember me when you are president, okay. >> okay. >> thank you, i just want you to meet the folks i was just hanging with. >> thank you. >> your forbearance is commendable. this has to be an emotional moment, for you, the family, for the congressman -- congressman, thanks for the passport into your district. i appreciate it. and the -- i want to also thank everyone here that took the time to be here. and, you know one of the things -- back in the 1900s, dawson springs was a place where people came to be healed because

of the mineral waters. literally was a place you came to heal. now it's our turn to help the entire town to heal. you know, i granted the request for the first emergency declaration and major disaster declaration the moment i received it because i got to know the governor's father, and i knew nothing would come that wasn't real. i mean it, for real. and yesterday i also approved an emergency declaration for the state of illinois and tennessee. and i intend to do whatever it takes, as long as it takes, as long as it takes, to support your state, your local leaders, as you recover and rebuild. because you will recover, and you will rebuild. the scope and scale this destruction is almost beyond belief. when you look around here, it's just bm beyond belief. these tornadoes devoured everything in their path. and, you know, as i flew over

here in a helicopter, you can look down and you see a house. 20 yards away from a house that's devastated a house is in good shape. tornadoes are such devastating storms. back where i am from we are used to hurricanes, and floods, and high water. but these tornados are just something totally different. it devoured everything in its path, your homes, your business, your houses of worship, your dreams, your lives. the governor confirmed or i think you said 74 fatalities so far, governor, in kentucky making these the deadliest tornados to ever strike this state. 14 are confirmed dead in other states, and dozens are still -- we are fearful for where they are. i met one couple on the way up what said they are still looking for four of their friends. they don't know where they are. those who have lost someone,

there is no words for the pain of losing someone. a lot of us know it. a lot of us understand it. especially around the holidays, when everything is supposed to be happy and joyful. it was a long time ago i got a phone call around the holidays and found out that my -- i was in washington as a young senator, not sworn in yet, about to be hiring staff, and i got a call saying -- from a first responder, that there had been an accident. a tractor trailer broadsided my wife with a christmas tree on top, my wife and kids inside and my wire and daughter were dead. something good has to happen out of this. it can't be all bad. we have got to make it better. those who lost someone know how tough it is. you know how tough it is. mayfield, just hours before the storm -- we just came from mayfield, the gibson pharmacy

was full of children waiting to meet santa. now it is completely gone. so many businesses violate to the community have been damaged or destroyed. in your town as well. there is a saying in small towns, people know about it when you are born, and they care about it when you die. they know about it when you are born, and they care about it when you die. well, in so many places, destruction was met with compassion. neighbors and first responders racing to help and save each other's lives and support. i mean, i asked -- i am not joking. i asked when i got to mayfield what the first thing my first responders -- my first responders, fema -- what they heard. they said they were amazed. all they heard was about people just going out and helping one another. everybody. everybody. just stepping up. it's incredible. it is incredible how you all step up. folks, the fact is i am going to make sure the federal government

steps up and make sure we do every single thing. for years and years as u.s. senate, and then as vice president -- i come from delaware. we have a lot of serious storms. hurricanes, oceans rising, a whole range of things. but you know what? it always took a long time. there is no reason why it should sake any time. we have the wherewithall to get it done. and we are going to get every single thing you need. and i am going the make sure the federal government does what's needed. at the state's request, four fema search and rescue teams are working here in kentucky right now. for those without power, fema has provided 61 generators. the army corps of engineers has temporary power install teams ready to assist if needed and we have provided critical supplies thus far. a lot more to come. 144,000 liters of drinking water, 24,000 meals. i guess 74,000.

look, thousands of cots and blankets. they are seven, seven shelters open in kentucky which are now taking care of 300 occupants. but a lot more is going to occur. of course housing is a key. because of covid we want to make sure people are out of those shelters as quickly as we can, because of covid. and we also want to provide some certainty for people. i have been involved in responding to a lot of disasters. you can see it in people's faces, what they are really looking for -- look around, i say to the press. what they are looking for is just to be able to put their head down on a pillow, be able to close their eyes, take a deep breath, go to sleep and make sure the kids are okay. that's what people are looking for right now. but a lot of hard work is going to happen in the next two or three months to bring it all the way back. goch gov, i want to provide you certain as well. i just approved the request that i -- i wasn't sure i had the authority, but turns out i do. the government is going to cover 100% of the costs, 100% of the

costs for the first 30 days for all the emergency work, clearing everything to -- every single cost, the federal government is going to take care of. that includes debris removal, cost of overtime of law enforcement, emergency service personnel, and shelter. >> thank you. >> and that will get you through. and by the way, i want to thank your wife. she started a toy drive for this part of the state to make sure how many -- come here. i am taking credit for something i have nothing to do with. tell them what you have got so far. >> as of this morning, we think we have about 20,000 gifts donated and we have got three more days to go. >> 20,000 gifts. so no kid is going to get to sleep wherever they get to sleep tonight without a gift. god love you, like, we also need to recognize that people suffered memg and emotional injuries. the costs of this sometimes are unseen and unknown. you know, people talk about

post-traumatic stress on the battlefields. i traveled through afghanistan and iraq. guess what. there is a lot of post-traumatic stress that comes from lying in your house and all of a sudden the roof goes blowing off and you wonder whether your kids are around. i really mean it. the shosk losing a home, and a business, the grief of losing someone, it is happening right before the holidays, i said, and we are going to make sure that you have all the help you need including the kinds of mental help that's needed to help people through difficult times. folks, you know, the fema has opened mobile disaster recovery centers in mayfield and in dawson springs, and it has disaster survivor assistance teams on the grounds here in kentucky to help people register for assistance. as i said when i talked to the governor, not only are we going to get you what you need, we are going to make sure everything is available. you don't always know all that is available. that's what we are going to to. folks, you know, if you live in

an affected area, which all of you are standing here watching me do, you visit disaster assistance dot gov or call 1-800-621-fema. that's 1-8 hundred-4 -- -- that's 18 hundred-6213362. when i come back, one young lady and her promised me meal. she's one hell of a cook. i am coming back for the meal. thank you, thank you, thank you, here. to all the families here, keep the faith. we are going to get this done. i promise you, the governor is not walking away, the judge is not walking away. your congressman is walking away. no one is walking away.

we are in this for the long haul. thank you for your patience. >> do you need more money from congress and -- >> not now. we don't need it yet. you know, there has been, because of weather disasters, just this year, over $99 billion in losses. $99 billion in losses. and as i flew over, i was telling folks here, as i was out with the governor of california and idaho and other states, as you fly over those territories for the better part of an hour looking down, every single solitary thing is leveled because of the fires. nothing there. the forest, the homes, the businesses. and guess what. so much area has burned this year because of weather and climate changes, that it is larger than the entire state of new jersey, the entire state of new jersey. that's how much land has been

burned to the ground. so we have got a lot to do. a lot to do. but the american people are ready to do it. this is the united states of america, there is not a darn thing we can't do. thank you. >> president biden there carrying out one of the most amazing duties of a president, comforting people who are suffering, in this case, the residents of dawson springs, kentucky, particularly hart hid by those devastating tornadoes last weekend. let's bring into our coverage, mike memberly, who is traveling with the president today in dawson springs, and politico white house reporter and coauthor of "politico" playbook, you mean daniels. mike memberly, tell me about the president's day. >> nicolle, these are such important moments for a president who obviously has a legislative agenda he's trying to get through but who really feels his most important obligations are to try to unify the country and show republicans

that government did still deliver for them. he is announcing the federal government will reimburse the state fully for all the costs that they incur on the recovery efforts for the next 30 days. but these are also really difficult moments for a president who is obviously so steeped in loss and has been so, throughout his career, somebody who has drawn from that well of empathy. you know, as i was talking with a white house official who is traveling with the president today, they said how emotionally draining this was, even more than they were expecting in part because of the time of year. they said the thing that really got most of the officials as they were traveling was seeing the holiday direct ragss, seeing presents that were strewn about among the damage. the president referred to it. you heard it in his remarks that on saturday he is going to return to saturday as he does every year to mark the 49th anniversary saturday of the loss of his wife and daughter in that

accident that changed the course of his political career. that's part of what the president was here to do today. not just to speak, the to show that we are going to do as much as it takes as long as it takes in terms of delivering a government response. but offering a personal consolation at a difficult time for them, obvious she. >> you mean, as mike is presenting his reporting and his understanding of what makes president biden tick, in the years in which george w. bush was president, there were a lot of difficult years. but when disasters hit, thinking of katrina, the people are suffering unimaginable losses, they are suddenly thrust into a national story about tragedy. and this president seems

particularly well suited for these moments, and probably for all of the difficulty in being on the ground, there is something pure about offering any help that a government can offer to people in this situation. >> absolutely. because grief doesn't know any borders, it doesn't know red or blue states. it doesn't understand any of that, right? so what joe biden understands is that up with job that he has, that he, i think is well suited for in compared to most presidents that we had because of his own experience that mike laid out so beautifully there, is that when you go to these places people want the know that you are going to be to help them and that they are not going to think about who you voted for. i went to new jersey with the president 24 year. he walked around and talked to me. every time you see him do this, he talked to republicans and democrats.

i think most agree, this is something he has done before, he does it well, and this is where he's at. and after four years of donald trump kind of sometimes not -- promising not to do things for democratic states because they didn't vote for him, he zmtd like their governors. i think there are a lot of people in the political order when terrible things happened seeing the president doing the duty of going and talking to people, you can see him right there, what his aides tell us he follows up with these folks. he promised he would come the that head's house and have dinner with here because he's a hell of a cook. i believe he is going to do that, because he has called people, given his personal cell phone out before he was president. >> these are people who need a whole lot of help. certainly it's a moment here in kentucky that is well beyond any of our political debates. mike memberly and eugene daniels thank you for jumping on. the president went earlier than we have come to expect.

joe biden, to keep to his schedule. we appreciate your flexibility. now we will sneak in a quick break. when we come back we will return to our top story, the brand-new evidence against one time chief of staff, one time member of congress, mark meadows, donald trump, and what's really interesting today, untold numbers of republican members of congress revealed in last night's historic contempt vote on the house floor. plus the fox news hosts who were so worried about what they saw on january 6th and have spent every day since january 6th very publicly night after night after night whitewashing the insurrection and shaming anyone who wasn't willing to white wash it with them. they are not happy that their private fears of that day were turned over to the committee and read out loud by liz cheney reading everyone's text. the march to protect democracy marches on even as one

party remains determined and steadfast to stands in the way. all those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. a quick break. don'got anywhere. feel stuck and need a loan? move to sofi and feel what it's like to get your money right. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ move to a sofi personal loan. earn $10 just for viewing your rate — and get your money right. ♪ just getting by. and get your money right. it's an ongoing struggle. that's why president biden and democrats in congress have a plan to lower costs for america's working families. lower costs of health care premiums. and the price of prescription drugs. pay less for electric bills by moving to clean energy. we do it all by making the ultra-wealthy

pay their fair share of taxes. it'd be a win for the everyday american family. right when they could really use one. congress, let's get this done. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ - san francisco can have criminal justice reform and public safety. but district attorney chesa boudin is failing on both. - the safety of san francisco is dependent upon chesa being recalled as soon as possible. - i didn't support the newsom recall but this is different. - chesa takes a very radical perspective and approach

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we are back now with our friends from the top of the hour to discuss that new evidence against donald trump's exwhite house chief of staff mark meadows revealed in yesterday's contempt proceeding. "washington post's" jackie alemany is here along with pete struck and joyce vance. i want to hear liz cheney in her

own words. >> mr. meadows' testimony will bear on another key question before this committee, did donald trump, through action or inaction, corruptly seek to obstruct or impede congress's appreciate proceedings to count electoral votes? we know that for 187 minutes president trump refused to act. and he refused to act when his action was required, it was essential, and it was compelled by his duty, compelled by his oath of office. indeed, a be in of members of the press, a number of members of this body, a member of the president's own family all urge the president to take action because they understood that the president of the united states had a responsibility to call off

the mob. hours passed despite this without any action by the president. >> joyce vance, i want to bring you in. i want to read the analysis of the specific language liz cheney is using. quote a casual observer might have missed it but what cheney was doing here was pointing to a specific criminal statute, a felony. 18 u.s. code 1512, she suggests donald trump might have violated. cheney's comment matches the language of the statute. it sats, whoever object trukts influences or impedes any official proceeding should be fined or imprisoned. that official proceeding is including a proceeding before the congress. your thoughts? >> liz cheney went straight to the heart of the matter. it was, i think, a little bit surprising, nicolle. it sort of took my breath away

because she sent not a message. she simply signalled that she expects that the january 6th committee will send a criminal referral on the former president of the united states to the justice department at the end of these proceedings. right now, we are talking about contempt charges with witnesses who are refusing to testify. liz cheney indicated she believes they will have evidence to make this referral asking d.o.j. to prosecute the former president. 1512 is an obstruction statute. charlottely, the evidence she is talking about might be suggestive of a conspiracy to interfere with the vote count, a conspiracy to interfere with the functioning of government. it looks like this committee is going to do the opposite of bob mueller did. you will remember that mueller, in his report, infamously said he was restricted, he couldn't bring charges against a sitting president. so he was writing a road map for congress. sounds like congress is going to

return the favor and refer charn s to -- charges to the justice department at some point next year. >> pete truck, your thoughts? >> i think joyce is exactly right. what i think we are seeing is we are beginning to get an appreciation that despite all the evidence we have seen, there is still a tremendous amount of information that we don't know. they are all indications that this hidden information is particularly damning. that's what is most concerning to me about the allegations the use of signal. it was clear that meadows' texting capability was working just fine. but a member of congress said i don't know to put whatever it is i have to say to you in plain text g. to signal. why that is important, the first is this is the kind of things that spies and criminals and terrorists use to hide activities from law enforcement and from prosecutors. it demonstrates, one arc state of mine that the people understood whatever it was they

wanted to say was potentially so bad that they wanted to hide it. the second thing is they were coordinating this activity. they set up signal accounts in advance, knew each other's accounts in advance. it wasn't a spur of the moment action. this was a group of people who sat down and engaged in hidden communications all in the context of seeking to overthrow the certification of a lawfully elected president. >> pete, i -- i'm trying to square two things in my head. hillary clinton turned over to the benghazi committee emails that revealed she used a personal email account. that was investigated wholesomely. people have their opinions. they are what they are. mark meadows is the acting chief of staff on the day his boss, president trump was trying to overthrow the will of the people -- why isn't he under criminal investigation by the fbi?

>> that's a great question. i don't know that he isn't. there is certainly a question here whether the preksz records act which applies not only to the president but to president's immediate staff, whether mark meadows is in violation of that. if all of these signal and other texts he had if he turned those over to the archivist of the united states as the law requires. but it is rich in irony that mark meadows who sat on the house judiciary committee, who led the charge whether or not hillary clinton was in compliance with the law what she was doing with her emails, mind you that she turned over to the state was affirmatively taking actions to hide his communications, in the conduct of potentially the most egregious affront to our constitutional governance that i think any of us can imagine. i wouldn't -- i am not convinced the fbi is not investigating mark meadows but i think this is still in the beginning and not

the end of what mark meadows may be facing from an investigative standpoint. >> joyce, do you have thoughts, separate and apart from the krifl refer for stir and obstructing a congressional proceeding, shouldn't he be under investigation for things as sensitive of the president. george terwilliger is a real lawyer. if he had turned over all of his signal communications to the national archives, i have a feeling woold know that. >> these are all really good questions, nicolle. you just made a brilliant case for why the january 6th committee is entitled the hear testimony from mark meadows. there are a lot of unanswered questions. meadows is the best and perhaps the only place to go to for answers. that's one of the important factors that d.o.j. will look at as they assess his cooperation. and so that takes to us the clear issue that the committee

is referring over to justice when they ask for contempt proceedings. they are saying, meadows has already conceded as he has to, that these are matters that are outside of the scope of the executive branch's work. not only is plotting a coup not part the work of the presidency. meadows didn't treat it like it was. he has private communications. he went to signal. the great irony there. increasingly, there should be pressure on the justice department to deal with this as a case that has serious prosecutive merit. but the best outcome here would be for meadows to change his mind a second time, cooperate, provide the answer has the committee and the american people are entitled to. >> jackie alemany, there is a history of liz cheney not shielding her disdain for jacketless jim jordan. jim jordan and liz cheney both thrust into the headlines in the

same news cycle again. this is reported in the "new york times" about cheney's work on the committee. she is known to draft her own remarks and does her own preparation work poring over the documents the committee obtained. she also pressed to assemble a team of former intelligence analysts on the staff some of them republicans a move that bolstered the committee's bipartisan bona fides. dan riggel son one of those, he appeared on this show a number of times. that's where she mined the text that she decided to read in her time this week on the committee, and the rules committee hearings. jim jordan just confirmed that he's on the receiving end or the forwarding end of one of those communications with mark meadows. he's saying something about it being forwarded. i don't know what the point of that is, but what is the

significant of sort of the outing that liz cheney did this week now resulting in some professional conduct from the likes of jim jordan? >> well, i think there is two things here, nicolle. one, it does team that it is more powerful coming from a fellow republican, liz cheney, reading these text messages out loud, and putting a bunch of her colleagues on notice. but secondly, it also shows how much progress the committee has made. and that's only what we publicly know. they know so much more that they have already collected from their 300 interviews and people who have cooperated with these subpoenas or who have voluntarily come in. but i think in the next year some of the questions we have all been looking for answers to are going to be made clear. we are going to find out what other lawmakers were involved with meadows' efforts to overturn the results of the election, who the lawmakers were

that were the conduits to meadows and the white house in terms of spreading and propagating some of this dismotion from things like that 38-page power point that outlined various proposals to delay certification or overturn the results. to italygate which was another sort of cringy conspiracy theory that ran various republican congressman trying to disseminate and help gain traction and get the d.o.j. to investigate as well. as we had discovered from the senate judiciary report. but what it also -- what she is text messages also show is the extent to which republicans were aware of the efforts and in communications with the white house. and that is getting the committee closer to answering perhaps the most important question, which is what was the president doing on january 6th? who was he communicating with? and what was his response as the violence was under way? >> that's the whole ball game. jackie alemany, pete truck, i

wanted to talk to all three you since i stayed up last night and watched this. thank you to all three of you for sticking around and navigating the president's event. fox news hosts slammed the january 6th committee for releasing their texts. but there was one host last night who confronted the host for his words since january 7th. we will show that to you and talk about fox news's response. stay with us. se stay with us w. make your nights anything but silent. and ride in a sleigh that really slays. because in a cadillac, tradition is yours to define. so visit a cadillac showroom, and start celebrating today. ♪ ♪ ♪♪ all the gifts you really, really, really,

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quote, mark, the president needs to tell people in the capitol to go home. this is hurting all of us. he is destroying his legacy. laura ingram wrote. please get him on tv, destroying everything you have accomplished, brian kill immediate texted. quote, can he make a statement, ask people to leave the capitol, sean hannity urged. >> that was liz cheney revealing bombshell text messages from the aforementioned fox news hosts urging the president to call off the attack on the capitol while he was happening. it is a stunning revelation in a lot of ways but especially given that all three of those hosts began to down play donald trump's role of having anything to do with or having any power

over the insurrection, and spout baseless conspiracies about antifa being there hours after it happened. >> we always knew bad actors would infiltrate large crowds. >> 99% of them were peaceful. but because of a small contingent of loons these patriots have been unfairly maligned. >> these patriots? last night fox news hosts some of the same ones lashed out at liz cheney and the january 6th committee for releasing their private texts. boo hao, their attacks of the insurrection went off the rails a little bit, which is remarkable for fox news. here's what happened on hannity's hour. >> i beg you, sean, to remember the frame of mind you were in on january 6th when you wrote that

laura did, that don jr., and remember the concern you had, remember the frustration you had at our beloved 45th president. >> yeah, because i wanted a riot to end. >> why does he continue doing this? why deny he say something. >> the point is, he did. >> saw unfolding before. >> he did. >> unfolding very of before your eyes on attack on democracy. >> let me give to it dan. >> he did not call for that. he said peace -- >> joining our conversation, ben smith, steve schmidt. i don't know who the guy on the right was but one looked like he was going to have a stroke and other looked like he was going to cry. they had knowledge of trump's singular power on january 6th, 1/6/21 to flip a switch and end

it. >> i think the fish line is that they stand with donald trump and they are going to find -- >> which one, though? which one, ben? the one that could have flipped a switch? but which -- what liz cheney has done is she had made them pick a donald trump. which one? the one that don jr. wanted to stop the jurks? or which trump are they standing with. >> you know, this honestly reminds me a bit of the things where reporters used to go out to diners and ask trump supporters after each outrage, do you still support him? i don't think you are going to catch fox news hosts allowing fact or memories to kind of change their political stances right now. >> steve, what's amazing is you can imagine another era michael fanone being a guest on all three of those problems, on with brian kill immediate, with laura and her foe seriousness, leaning in, can you believe that the spoetders of fill in the blank

democrat attacked you in a medieval way? you know, all you have to do is sort of change the actor. and there is no other actor other than donald trump who insided an insurrection, so it is a perfect analogy. michael dunn, and -- these are the sort of fox regulars on whom the tables have been turned. what do you make of the hypocrisy, the rank lying, and the near certain case that nothing will change, like ben said. well, we've known this for a long time. there is nothing particularly revealer to about this except it offers proof of the disdain and contempt all of these fox news hosts have for their audience. the no-holds-barred lying to them. it has had two major effects in the country. the first is you have a couple hundred thousand people that are

dead from a disease that shouldn't have killed them but did, but for the lying about a vaccine that can control it. that's one. rubbing these people's lives away who trusted fox news hosts to tell them the truth. and the second is the wholesale poisoning of faith and belief in democracy, and the spreading of the big lie. we know for sure that they knew who was responsible for inciting the mob that was doing violence in the capitol. they reached out to the chief of staff, who they had an ezra-- an easy rapport with, with whom they were very familiar. this was obviously not the first time they had been in contact. and we will soon find out who was the first to actually reach trump and to have the conversation. and we will find out over the course of the next week as they all got in line behind the

conspiracy theories and behind those seditionists, behind the apeople who attacked the capitol. this is a propaganda network. it makes billions of dollars a year peddling hate in this country, conspiracy theories a year peddling hate in this country. white replacement theory in the case of tucker carlson and the 8:00 hour. it has something that has done profound damage to the fabric of the country in this moment in time at this hour of great division that's reached a crisis in america. >> ben, chris wallace announced his departure from fox news last week and i know a lot of the analysis is oh, the right wingers have solidified their hold on fox. that largely went on during sort of the megyn kelly, dana perino

years while trump was a candidate. jonah goldberg has been live tweeting liz cheney's stewartship. he tweeted to me, the relevance of the text shows all of those people have been shamefully schilling for trump, broadly speaking, their position is that the riot was evil and terrible if conducted by antifa and the false flag operation to make trump support ers look bad, but no big deal if it was perpetrated by trump support ers. how many people appreciate what folks like goldberg are doing but don't have the power and the structure to say so? >> i mean, i think there's a diminishing minority at fox who are appalled by what they're seeing on air.

if you work at fox and try to get a job somewhere else, it's a black mark on your resume. it's interesting what steve was saying about how they see their audience. what you hear when you talk to people there is that well, we know some of this is crazy, but we have to respect our audience and the way they view them is telling them whatever they want to hear. to some degree, the reality is it's donald trump's audience. not fox news' audience and they saw a glimpse of it after january 6th and the election. they diverged from trump a little and saw their audience migrate and that freaked them out and they got back in line. >> all the way to the ventilators. mitch mcconnell talked to reporters yesterday after cheney revealed not just the fox texts, but some of those unnamed republican lawmakers who sent texts to meadows on the day of the insurrection. >> were you personally in contact with mark meadows that day and other white house officials to urge trump to do more? >> i was not. but i do think we're all

watching as you are what is unfolding on the house side. and it will be interesting to reveal all the participants involved. >> really? that sounds like the mitch mcconnell, who after voting to acquit donald trump, basically referred him for criminal prosecution. who on 1/6 knew there was no voter fraud and knew who was responsible. which one are you looking for these days? >> i was really intrigued by that answer for all the reasons you lay out as a student of mitch mcconnell and the way he talks to the press. that answer was so interesting to me for a bunch of reasons. to the first part of his answer, he hasn't spoken to trump now in about a year in any capacity so it's not surprising he didn't speak to him on january 6th. here's what you need to know about mcconnell and how he answers questions from

reporters. first of all, there is no politician in either party who is as comfortable saying nothing or refusing to acknowledge your question or say something like i've said all i have to say about that subject on a question he doesn't want to answer. so the fact he engaged on that question is noteworthy to me. and when he's faced with questions about trump, he says he's looking forward, focused on fighting the current president, joe biden. the fact he's engaged in anything backward looking and pointing to the work of the january 6 committee in any way is fascinating to me. only wish i could better explain why he was doing it. whether it might be something as someone like a mo brooks house member who's running for a senate seat in alabama. a trump ally, who could very well be one of the authors of one of these text messages that we could find out. maybe getting someone like him off mcconnell's plate would be good news for him. but i think big picture, mcconnell wants a republican party that looks forward past trump. he's not well positioned to get

it and he's not willing to stick his neck out very far to achieve it. but i think you saw a little glimpse of that in that very short answer. >> steve, i think liz cheney will reveal not just everyone that was involved in the conspiracy to overthrow the counting of the electoral votes for joe biden, she will reveal the cowardess of men like mcconnell. what separates cheney and mcconnell isn't their world view. it isn't even a view of donald trump or a certainty he incited the insurrection. it's fear. >> we have this terrible moment of politics where there is no principle that you can find out there. we see all of these people, the josh hollys, the ted cruzes. the people that have

to this moment. who have lied thousands of times to the american people. it's all about the profit and the power. so here you see liz cheney, somebody who's putting it all on the line. putting her career on the line. has earned a primary challenge. has been rebuked by the wyoming state republican party. has earned the em anity of donald trump for what? to say we shouldn't have a dictator in the united states. that the person who wins the election is the person who ought to be the president. i think in the months ahead, we're going to see this clinic in patriotism, in principle, but liz cheney, but also by jamie raskin, chairman thompson and the others. this committee as it's functioning in its early days is

going to get to the bottom and lay this out for the american people and liz cheney is just someone who cannot be bought off. obviously cannot be dissuaded from her mission and i agree with her 110% when she defines this as the moral issue of our time. just goes to the heart of the american republic being able to survive as a democracy passed its 250th birthday, which is just a short five years away. >> steve, ben, garrett, thank you so much for being part of this hour. the next hour starts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. we are just getting started. k b. don't go anywhere. we are just getting started. the guest bedroom slash music studio. the daybed slash dog bed. the living room slash yoga shanti slash regional office slash classroom. and this is the basement slash panic room.

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we're also continuing to hold conversations on the urgent work in advancing the freedom to vote act and jon lewis act. there is universal view that we need to pass legislation to protect our democracy. what the republican legislatures are doing on a purely partisan basis is undermining, destroying our democracy. we believe that we can restore the senate to work the way it's supposed to and at the same time, deal with voting rights and that's what we're aiming to do. >> hi, again, everyone. it's 5:00 in new york. a glimmer of hope. chuck schumer confirming that discussions on federal voting rights legislation are taking

place. passing those bills would be a direct counter to the months long republican assault on free and fair elections in this country. multiple sources now tell nbc news that schumer is hoping to take action on voting rights before the end of the year. adding that a group of four moderate dems including joe manchin, have been meeting on ways to change the senate rules. it's not the only meeting taking place though. earlier today, naacp president met virtually with a group of senate democrats who the organization believes have not done enough to fight and protect voting rights. he released this statement -- our constitutional right to vote has been slashed. we cannot allow 2021 to end without voting rights protections. it would be unconscionable. our crippling democracy is not waiting around for the senate to act. now, it pains me to say this,

but crippling democracy may at this point be an understatement. sewing doubt about the 2020 election has become the gateway drug. it has ushered in casual voter nullification. the 2020 election fraud conspiracy, they're winning. trump allies continue their steady march to seize control of elections everywhere. take this new reporting in "the washington post," quote. a retired army colonel who worked with then president trump's outside legal team to claim that the 2020 election results were rigged was an invited speaker tuesday. at a state commission charged with shaping louisiana's voting system. phil waldrun's 90-minute talk in louisiana came just days after revelations that he had briefed members of congress on powerpoint presentation that urged then vp mike pence on january 6th to reject electoral votes from quote, states where fraud occurred. replace them with republican

electors or delay counting electoral votes until ballots could be seized and recounted with the help of national guard troops. so much crazy. don't have time to fact check it all. while his now infamous powerpoint in his efforts to overturn biden's victory just didn't come up at this meeting. the post adds this, quote, the invitation and applause that those in the audience gave him tuesday shows how proponents of election fraud falsehoods are cementing a place about the future of voting in america. particularly in red states where political leaders often respond to a republican base that is outrarjed. the fight to protect our democracy from a political party determined to dismantle it is where we start this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. sam stein is here. also joining us, civil rights attorney, maya wily, former fbi special agent and current research fellow, clint watts is

here. all of them msnbc contributors. i want to start with the fight to protect democracy and what the fight in this really crowded agenda in washington looks like. this is senator warnock on my friend's program last night. >> we make a terrible error of judgment if we behave as if these are ordinary times. these are no ordinary times and if we don't do something to protect our democracy, here's my theory, rachel. i fear we may well have crossed a rubicon that will make it difficult for us to get back what we thought as a democracy. democracies don't die all at once. anybody who's paying attention now ought to be concerned. the good news is we have the power to act.

we can do something about it. we proved it last week because why? if we didn't act, the economy would be in crisis. and i thought seriously about voting against raising the debt ceiling, but i was thinking about the people back home. i was especially thinking about the most vulnerable members of our community who were not resilient. who would suffer loss that perhaps is unimaginable if we didn't do the responsible thing. well, i shutter to think what will happen to our democracy if we don't defend it. >> he's been sounding the alarms and saying much of the same thing he said last night for months, but maya, it feels like this is everyone's focus now and there's been so much. when you are reduced to one of the two major political parties in america trying to protect something that the other one is tearing down, you get wrapped

around. i think this is where the democrats had been, i think a month's long debate about the filibuster. and so few have kept it on the fundamentals. i wonder if you see that changing or what you think the prospects are on doing something meaningful for voting rights before the end of the year. >> well, it's impossible to say without a crystal ball what will happen, but i think it's incredibly important that both the leadership of the senate, but also some centrist members of the senate like joe manchin are thinking about a way to carve out an exception that allows the voting rights act. and legislation has really be two separate pieces of legislation. we need both of them. but the reason it's so important is for exactly the reasons that you already teed up. when you've got a fox trying to guard a hen house, you're just going to get a massacre. and that's really what's happening in local, in elections in counties around the country based on the false fears that

somehow it is we the people who are the problems for our election system. what these acts represent is both an ability to make it easier for people lawfully voting to do so rather than what we're seeing too much of in the republican party unfortunately, which is making it more difficult for people to vote who they believe will not vote for them. this is like texas where the department of justice has just intervened to try to make sure that blacks and latinos in the system of carving out districts aren't disenfranchised, but it's also about how much power the federal government has to go after states and counties that are doing things that are discriminating at the polls and fundamentally, what democracy in our electoral system is about is about how we come together to decide who should help us solve the problems we have. if people who are block, if people who are latino, if people who are asian or native american

don't have a fair say in who has a grip on the problems that we need to solve, we are not solving the problems we all share and that's why it matters so much. >> you know, sam, my colleague, rachel maddow, has been making the point not just for nights, but for months, that we carve out of the filibuster urgent things like the debt ceiling and the problem hasn't been a tactical one. we have a tactic for putting aside the filibuster to do important stuff. it's been a matter of will. and until this moment, the will has not been there to reform the filibuster, to pass voting rights. i want to just introduce our viewers to two new developments on this. this is the vice president on voting rights on sirius xm with my colleague from earlier today. let's listen to this. >> i had convened and met with countless world leaders,

presidents, prime ministers and it's a real conversation and they're looking to the united states to check and make sure that democracies can prevail. where we uphold essential values like free and fair elections while we also uphold what we must do to take care of our people. and so when you talk about it from that context, when you talk about it from the context which is that there are intentional, purposeful attempts by states around our country, at least a dozen, that are trying to take away people's rights to vote, make it more difficult for people to vote so that they won't vote. >> and then, sam, in the last hour, i believe, president biden upon departure from kentucky said this about voting rights. get it done. they should do it. quote, there's nothing more important domestically than voting rights. it's the single biggest thing. is the will to do something different to get this through

there now in a way that it wasn't a month, two months, six months ago? >> there's clearly more attention and will than we've seen at any point in this presidency. i think part of that is because the administration, democrats recognize that the window is perilously close to closing. the further you get into election season, the harder this is to do. but there's also the element of are they emphasizing this now because they want the base to not get worried about the lack of action on other initiatives like build back better. i still think the same obstacle is present as a couple of months ago, which is can you get all 50 members of the senate democratic caucus to agree to a carve out on the filibuster. we have not yet seen they can do that. i know there's been talks of

manchin recently. he seems to be, not necessarily the only one holding out on this. the question is, can they convince him to say yes? manchin's whole idea that he wants to have a bipartisan buy-in on any election reform. the reason is you need to have the trust of everyone in the rules if you want to keep democracy started. and i understand the sort of, the idea behind it. i think the counterpoint though is equally prevailing, which is that these laws that are happening in a dozen plus states around the country are being written on a republican-only basis. that's going to undermine democracy both from a logistical standpoint and from a trust in the process standpoint. so if the feds cannot intervene, you're just having the situation that manchin wants. >> i mean, the '90s are calling and they want their republican party back. i mean, what's the republican

party of today showcase someone who in normal times would be under incredible scrutiny, lawyering up. phil waldrun wrote a powerpoint that circulated among republicans and somehow it ended up in the documents produced by mark meadows to the january 6 select committee about how to overthrow the results. there's not two sides of this. there's one party that has its eye on the crisis to its existence. and that's republicans. republicans know they don't exist. if everyone can vote. republicans know that they have to keep their base cooked in the lie, cooked in the juice of fraud, of which there was none. and there are usually people who go to trump fraudulently or dead.

what do you make of the information and messaging asymmetry? >> nicolle, i think you've heard that statement before. nothing more dangerous than an army officer with powerpoint slides. it is no longer a joke. it is the most dangerous threat to our democracy. this is straight authoritarian overthrow. trying to find every single way to thwart democracy at a national and state level essentially when you look at this document. what we've seen consistently is when republicans can't win at the ballot box, it comes to breaking the rules or changing them and ultimately trying to destroy the system. i think that's what sam was alluding tres we've got a big problem coming in 2022. if you look at how the election officials are being treated at a local level for intimidation through tracking and docking, a lot of them are leaving. we are going to struggle to find enough people to actually be able to hold the actual election. that doesn't even talk about voting rights.

just who will even be able to vote when it comes time for the election and so imagine this time next year, you know, we're coming out of an election cycle in 2022 where this is the new norm. where people are being blocked a t the polling places or being intimidated at their house or potentially at a polling place and don't have enough election workers to show up and operate the polls. that could be our new democracy in 2022 and even if the vote goes and doesn't do goh the way those so-called in charge of the voting, we could actually have an election that is just brute force overturned at a local level. that's my biggest fear. 2022 will be a warm up and when it comes 2024, all this is enabled by the electoral college because we don't base our president on the popular vote. we have a system right now that can be rigged, that can be gamed. it can have voter rights suppressed. so i am really concerned not

just about 2022, but 2024 i think will be the deciding election in many ways about what direction our democracy goes. if it's going to continue to exist. >> all of the reporting on voting rights puts the people who are if r doing the kinds of things that protect our democracy, not in a vacuum, but from full out assault by republicans. it's predicated on a lie that that was fraud. there wasn't fraud. "the new york times" who covers the laws in the states says those are some of the most secure ways to vote because you have to show your driver's license. so they're eliminating some of what were the most secure ways to vote during the pandemic all in the name of fictional voter fraud. why did this get relegated to democratic activist issue? why isn't it an all america issue? >> well, it is an all america

issue. we have to go backwards a bit because the truth is this onslagt began before donald trump. it began back in 2010 in response to barack obama's win 2008 that said we got to do something. we got this surge of voters. they're not voting for us and we even had republicans, some of whom said publicly, state republican chair and board for example, we got to make it hard for these people to vote and they used the narrative of election fraud to do it. donald trump didn't invent it. he perfected ilt. what we have to understand now is that wow, trump is the one that's been able to popularize it. the reality is it's always been about the changing demographics of the country. and rather than saying we have so many shared problems across

communities, across race, across religion, across all kinds of the layers of diversity that we have in this country, that we need to solve together and rather than come together and try to figure out that together, which is what democracy calls us to, you know, unfortunately, we've seen a party saying rather than try to contest for those votes, we're just going to try to block the ballot as clinton said. but the reality is none of this is inevitable in terms of where we'll be in 2024. if we continue to do what people are organized to do right now, which is protect poll workers. there's a legal network organizing right now to do just that, which is the kind of poll watching people are being trained to do in order to protect the vote and what the civil rights community, which remember is not just black people, it's not just latinos, it's not just asians, it's people who are jewish. it's people who are union

workers. it's people who are people living with disabilities. it is women of all races who all are trying to contest for an inclusive society. are coming together and demanding these pieces of legislation pass and what i think we hope to see from the biden administration as a little lyndon johnson who worked on getting back in the voting rights act passed in 1965 by becoming his own lobbiest and by going directly to the american people as well as directly to congress and saying we're going to get this done. >> that's exactly what our friend and colleague has called for. that the president publicly push manchin and sinema on a carve out of the filibuster and or use his bully pulpit to bill support for that. when we come back, three

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nearly a year after election fraud conspiracies by the ex-president and his allies led to a deadly insurrection, the big lie persists. poll after poll shows a majority of republican voters still believe that the election was stolen from donald trump by joe biden. as we've known all along, voter fraud is rare. a thorough review by the associated press of election results in six battleground states found fewer than 475 cases of potential voter fraud. a number that does not come remotely close to changing the outcome of the election, even if all those cases were counted, which they were not, and even if all those votes were for joe biden and supposed to be for trump, which they were not, the search led to the arrest of three supporters. we don't know who they voted for, but we know they publicly

supported donald trump. "the washington post" writes quote, three central florida residents who have expressed support for former president trump were recently arrested following reports they cast more than one vote during the 2020 election. john rider cast ballots in florida and elsewhere. although details weren't clear at the time of his arrest. joan hall stead voted in person in florida in addition to casting an absentee ballot in new york. joy ketsic voted in florida and absentee in michigan, prosecutors say. sam, maya and clint are back. as i said, sam, we don't know who they voted for, but they were publicly supportive of trump. what's amazing in this ap reporting is the margins. it's probably a good thing we're looking closely at voter fraud and we're getting these numbers out there to anyone still existing in the fact driven

world. 198 votes were bribed, biden won there by 10,457. needless to say if all 198 were investigated or fraudulent and were supposed to be for trump and not biden, any of this investigation takes, obviously doesn't come close to changing the result. georgia flagged a suspicious 64. margin was 11,779. michigan, 56 votes flagged as suspicious. in nevada, 98 votes were flagged as suspicious. suspiciously cast. pennsylvania, these appearances. 26 votes. 26 votes in pennsylvania flagged

as suspicious. president biden won that state by 80,555. the margin there, 20,000. sam, it isn't even, you can kind of see why bill barr took a walk. isn't a thing. >> yes, and it's not anything. people that looked into issues of so-called election fraud in past elections only to discover the actual percentage of cases of fraud are inskul. from a data perspective, these laws that are being pursued are solutions in searches of problems and you know, the number of voters who are actually restricted over these laws would vastly exceed the possibility of fraud. we're talking about tens of thousands of voters who may be deprived of the polls because of stricter id laws for instance, when in fact the cases of fraud

are much smaller. so you know, statistically, this has never been a huge problem, but the republican party has always, recently, i should say, they want to make the case of these restricted laws. >> it's not really even a vote fraud story. it's a disinformation story. because the delta between reality and the political energy in this country is on the right and it's on voter restriction, nullification and changes to the way elections are administered. what do you fight against when the truth is so distant from the sentiment? >> the biggest challenge is the demand for this disinformation. when you look across the board, if you're watching these ecosystems, what you tend to find is there's no evidence you can offer to any of these individuals to make them believe anything other than what they want to believe.

that's at least half of the group there. two-thirds still believe in this. the separate part of this is ultimately, this ultimately hurts them. whether it's conspiracies around -- which they don't take, which increases the likelihood of their own death. it's voter fraud allegations, which are a giant waste of time. lawsuits that have tied up the courts when we need to move past the pandemic. when you look across the board, it will be people that probably supported president trump that will be prosecuted under some of these new laws around voter fraud. the investigation will be turned up on them. the last point is i think we probably did the best election we've ever done in this country and there's probably less fraud because there was so much scrutiny. we saw a warm up in 2016. we definitely spent more time and discussion of it just here on your show. i've been on dozens of times talking about this topic. chris krebs, you know, we

kraepted this new organization to help all the states because we knew this was coming and i think going into 2022 and 2024, again you're going to have the most eyeballs on elections. so ultimately, the idea of election fraud or voter fraud on a wide scale tip of election just seemed preposterous. not really conceivable, but it's what we should be focused on as a country. especially when we have such bigger problems to be focused on. >> if you sort of try to roll the thread back, you can also go back to 2016 when in one of the ways we weren't in normal times, in normal times, a russian attack on an american election would have united both parties. a normal republican would have said i want to win fair and square. the mueller report volume one reveals there were very much in a united mission. they wanted the same things and so they were fine with what

russia did in the four years of the trump presidency bore that out. the evolution, i don't know that anyone could have predicted, it would have been donald trump calling on people to commit voter fraud in north carolina before election say saying vote twice. that's a crime. that's a felony. what do we do about again, one of the two parties that plays fast and loose with their language about fraud? not just to do harm in voter suppression and nullification, but to change the sort of posture and the faith in the integrity of our elections? >> it's such an important question and there's not one answer. i wanted to go straight to the heart of why we have to answer the question. we know that you know, donald trump has had tremendous ability to tap something that was already there. and it was a deepening insecurity for far too many americans who are white, about

the changing demographics of the country. about a feeling of ways in which they couldn't control the future of the country and where they fit in. it's part of why disinformation was so effective at amplifying and manipulating those fears. it's also why we have had the great danger of what trumpism has become, which is the sucker and support and nurturing of white supremacy and neonazi groups and whitewash mainstream. we know when we've had some of our most devastating episodes, it is those groups that have been part of the core organizing behind it and that's started to become true when we've looked at what's happening at state and local level even at utah with folks going around and knocking on doors. turned out to be a militia group that organized that. but what that means is if we're not willing to go and confront what is racial anxiety, what is

actually fear that by becoming a more diverse country, that we will allow ourselves to fall into greater hate. so i will say that a major part of this in addition to passing voting rights legislation, it helps the federal government do what it does at protecting state and local level. because that's where elections happen. is also the work that we have to do in investing in dismantling right wing extremism that really becomes the core organizing unit that engage people who become susceptible to the disinformation. that underground of chat rooms that we're starting to see that are being visible to us because of the january 6th committee. because of the charlottesville trial and some folks who are signing up through those to do some of the work that you talked about at the top of the hour. so i think we have to understand the very rigorous role that hate is playing here and that even

for some folks who don't believe in hate and would say they're not white supremacists or neo nazi, may not see and understand how those tr organizers who may be organizing them to undermine the very democracy they depend on. >> right. and they certainly do enjoy their first amendment protections, as we all should. great points. maya, sam, clint, thank you so much for spending time with us today. investigators in new york are zeroing in on whether the disgraced ex-president inflated the value of his properties to mislead his lenders. two key figures are now shedding light. that reporting coming up after a quick break. ght. that reporting coming up after a quick break. ide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. whoo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, now introducing ensure complete! with 30 grams of protein. at intra-cellular therapies,

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the news last week that new york attorney general was dropping out of the governor's race to run for re-election had some of us wondering why. did the ag want to finish her case to the twice impeached ex-president? a case where there have been very few updates, very few public facing developments. last night provided us where what is potentially a big one. the fraud inquiry into donald trump being led by a manhatta ag is now honing in again on his assets. especially his financial statements, financial statement that is the trump organization used when they went out to woo

lenders with one of his long time accountants used to prepare these documents testifying in recent weeks before a grand jury. prosecutors have also interviewed a former managing director who arranged hundreds of millions of dollars in loans to donald trump. giving us a second line of inquiry, new questions. as investigators zero in on these documents, the main question emerging is whether the former president inflated the value of his assets to defraud the people lending him money. let's bring in chuck roseenberg. i read all this and you and i traded messages as i tried to understand this. i thought we already knew this. i thought michael cohen under threat of lying to congress already answered these questions in a line of questioning. he made clear that yes, donald

trump inflated his assets to get loans. what is happening in this case to corroborate that or prove it again? >> we did know that. you're exactly right. but heard it from michael cohen, but if you're a prosecutor, you've got prove it and you wouldn't base your entire case based on his testimony. he's a convicted felon and has changed his story a bunch of times. so you need to corroborate it. you need to talk to other people. so who best to talk to than accountants and bankers who dealt with mr. trump and his finances? those are exactly the people you expect to see in the grand jury and i imagine they're being asked precisely what did mr. trump say to you? what did he indicate to you? who is responsible for the numbers that are on these financial statements or these tax documents? because it's not enough, nicolle, as you and i have discussed, simply to show that a document that trump submitted is

false. you also have to show that it's intentionally false and if you want to prosecute trump for it, you have to show it's intentionally false because of trump. and so the people who receive that stuff, who handled that stuff, the intermediaries, are absolutely critical in a case like this. >> i want to ask you about immunity and why that would be part of this conversation if they weren't doing what you just articulated, telling the truth about trump's role. this is from "the washington post." the appearances by donald bender and rosemary browbick suggest prosecutors are seeking information about trump's finance from a small circle of outside partners who handled details of trump's taxes and real estate deals. both were never trump's employees but they knew more about his company's inner workings than many employees did. when browbeck met with one of his staff, they asked her about

trump's personal role in dealing with the bank. even his brief appearance before the grand jury had legal significance. under new york law, witnesses before a grand jury are automatically granted immunity from prosecution. meaning that bender could not be charged for his work. for trump. why is that important? >> yeah, well it's a quirk of new york state law that if you're called before a grand jury and i have to add this because it's important. and you testify truthfully, then you're immune from prosecution. so prosecutors must have made a decision that folks like the accountant or the banker either don't have any criminal liability, they didn't break the law, or if they had some, it's much more important to trade with them information for immunity. and so this is not that unusual in federal prosecutions. you don't automatically get immunity for testifying in the grand jury, but often we will

immunize a witness to obtain her evidence, her testimony. what they're doing here, and we don't have many peeks in this investigation, is we're seeing how prosecutors are thinking about the case. who do they need to make, to bridge that gap between the document, which is reportedly false and trump, who benefitted from the falsity? think of it this way. if i file a false tax return and i only use one person to help me prepare the return, that's pretty easy. right. you go talk to the accountant, put her in the grand jury. she says i got all that information from chuck. if the numbers are false, it's because of him, not me. relatively simple case. here, you have a whole bunch of people, dozens, perhaps, between the false argument and mr. trump. so you need to talk to them. >> we'll stay on it. thank you for spending some time with us today. when we come back, a spike

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then we're on the practice field. >> with the playoffs in sight, the nfl and really more broadly, the entire sports world, finds itself in the middle of what we'll call a situation. that was cleveland browns coach yesterday. after eight of his players tested positive for covid. well, there's a development. today we learned that he is now covid positive along with his team's quarterback, baker mayfield, and the numbers keep ticking up. 75 player positives league wide in the nfl monday and tuesday. according to espn. more today. seven teams currently under those covid protocols that the coach described there. that's just one league. just the nfl. the nba had to postpone games amid its own surge of covid cases affecting many of the league's superstars. other teams are playing shorthanded nd the lead up to the league's marquee christmas day showcase. with so much money at stake,

what are these leagues going to do? what can they do and why is this happening? joining us is the director of -- let's start with the last question first. why is this happening? >> well, nicolle, news flash. we are not done with covid-19 by a long stretch. this is the reality. we're still in the middle of it. we're going to see in many people's opinion, a surge upcoming through the winter and beyond and you know, we have the omicron variant and there's things to be concerned about. on the other hand, nicolle, it is very important that we emphasize you know like we talked about before, when we're living in two americas now. for the people who are vaccinated with the booster shot, you as opposed to the people who were in the

unvaccinated country of america, will be relatively quite protected. three shots will protect you from getting hospitalized or dying from covid. and that's what we need to do. that and a little bit and a little common sense around our christmas gatherings. i think we're just going to have to struggle through this with lots of issues like what's happening in professional sports, that things are going to pop up that we're going to have to deal with. >> i think the question -- i don't know that i can put it perfectly, but i think the question people have is, first of all, preventing the tragic and at this point unnecessary loss of life and extreme disease, but the second is, if a vaccinated and boosted sports league with millions of dollars on the line can't keep its players safe, what's going to happen to the school term after holiday travel? what's going the happen to any

idea, any notion we can ever be in a work space again publicly? i think the other thing people worry about, is this omicron, another contagious variant or is this another wave of delta? what are your thoughts on any of those questions? >> let me take the last point first. if you get tested for covid-19, rapid test or pcr, that will not tell you whether you have the variant or not. you need special genetic sequencing as people have heard about at this point to tell you which variant you have. whatever variant you have, if you're positive but you have been vaccinated, especially as i say fully vaccinated with the three shots, the chances of you needing to go in the hospital or not surviving this are very, very slim. that said, what if people are positive, can they go to work, can they play on a sports team? probably they won't be able to now for the foreseeable future

because we don't want to have infected people, even if they're protected with vaccines in terms of their own health and safety, we don't want positive people carrying mild forms of the disease to infect other people. it's definitely complicated, but hopefully that will help us understand where this is all going right now. >> what is your sense on only krone? do you want to know what all the positives are, or do you think we know enough about the patterns? >> i don't think there's any question anymore that this is a rapidly spreading virus variant. it's going very quickly in some states more than others. eventually we're going have a very large preponderance of covid-19 will be the omicron variant. i think that's something that we'll be tracking. but at the end of the day, it

doesn't matter really for people, and those of your listeners who i'm sure are mostly protected with the three doses really can feel pretty confident that they're not going to be spending any time soon in the hospital or not survive this. they are likely to survive, and that's good news for those who have done the right thing here. >> doctor, thanks for spending time with us. quick break for us. we'll be right back. only from discover. why hide your skin if dupixent has your moderate-to-severe eczema,

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thanks for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we're grateful. "the beat with ari melber" starts right now. >> welcome to "the beat." i am ari melber. we begin with donald trump and republican allies in congress exposed. this house investigation has explosive, intense and important new evidence as some discuss the mounting case for a crime by the former president. the january 6th committee released these text messages, and they really show something that many people may have thought, there was a difference between thinking, drawing inferences and having the evidence. it's the swirl around for