thanks for all of you for getting up way too early today. "morning joe" starts right now. it's 6:00 on the east coast. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it's thursday, december 16th, we have with us reverend al sharpton. good to have you, rev. you got some plans. >> yes, we do. >> i am so on it. you are not going to forget it, are you? >> oh, you will be coming. okay, msnbc's contributor and best selling author, katty kay is with us and jonathan lemire.

i watched "way too early" in the beginning, i am loving it. i like your open a lot. >> thank you. we deliver as much news you can, we try to have a little bit of fun with it, too. >> you know what they're calling him out of a variety? >> the mac jones of "way too early." you are brady. little mac jones is strappy. >> that's really good. he's having a good first season. >> the rookie. >> the playoffs to the promise land in the tall shadow of tom brady but still with bill belichick on his side. certainly in the nfl right now there is at least some scenario of a patriot/buccaneers, a brady verses matt jones. brady, you and i have to have a head to head at some point.

>> get the paper bag. you are having a good first season but i will tell you who's not having a good season, willie. urban myers. >> oh, nice swing. >> fired yesterday. >> urban meyer. there has never been a worst 13 games stretch for a coach. he got fired yesterday by the jaguars. he had a lot of success in college and ohio state in particular. >> when alabama beat him, remember he had a heart attack? >> i don't know that, i don't want to question his health. >> kicking players and screaming at coaches. >> it was that he was 2-11, having a terrible season. he was alleged to be abusive to many of the players and you had

the former kicker came out that said urban meyer kicked me in the leg. nfl players are not going to standby and take that as he tries to be the rawr rawr coach. >> katty, what are we going to do? >> i had a horrible feel that you are going to ask me about it. >> what are we going to do with britain? your friends are spreading this omicron thing all over the place and you are going to bring it to our country. >> that's true. >> what's wrong? >> the spirit of charity and goodwill, joe. >> none at all. >> you can't stay away, you are infected. you poor thing, i am so sorry.

>> good luck with that engineering. the history of this pandemic i am afraid has been what happens in the u.k. happens here. it happens every single time. we thought we are out of it in the summer of '20. we won and there is another surge here and another surge in the u.k. this is what's happening. it's all omicron. three people who were double vaccinated and boosted within bubble wrapped. they go to a party and get covid. it's a little sore throat but it's a pain because you then have to quarantine. >> guys, if you don't want to quarantine over christmas and now you got the prime minister who does not want to lock anything down. choose what you do socially because you can't do all of it.

>> that's where we have to be here too. people know how to take care of themselves and how to stop getting sick at some point. it's getting so bad that the french told the british to stay away. >> surprising. >> we had a little thing going on for a while. >> 1940s. >> hundred years more. >> stay away. >> katty said something important that her friends had mild symptoms. the question is are we shutting down when symptoms appear to be mild and people manage it well and it's like a flu. >> the disruption of people's life spending ten days in quarantine. and ahead of the holidays. i am praying that she gets a

negative covid test otherwise she can't get on a plane to come home for the holidays. that's the kind of -- it's disruptive whether or not ru very sick. it's not easy to live with. >> it could end up that the symptoms are so mild as the flu and the flu also kills people. we learn to sort of, i think masks help a lot but then again -- >> you are talking about your daughter, i went to a meeting at the white house this week and every time you have to get tested, you don't know and that anxiety is as bad as the results could be. teach you how to pray, joe. >> rev, keep this going. >> okay, on yesterday's show, this was some of the discussions that joe and rev were having about the democrats priorities.

take a look. >> i keep on hearing democrats talking about being big. it's not going to pass this year, manchin says that. the white house needs to focus on voting rights. we'll get back to focusing on the economy and securing american democracy. >> they are changing election laws while we speak in these things. we need this now because the other side, they're acting now. this is where you hit the button and you stop everything. why is there more urgency and why are they going to the hall and talk about bbb? it's so tone deaf. >> after our show yesterday sources told nbc news that schumer will delay his self-imposed deadline to pass the president's build back better bill for the end of the

year. talks of joe manchin have stalled. schumer is hoping to take action on voting rights before the end of the year. a group of four moderate democrats including manchin have been discussing ways to change the senate rule to allow voting rights to pass with a simple majority while touring the storm's damage in kentucky. president biden was asked about the pivot of build back better bill to voting rights. >> should democrats move onto voting rights legislation and push back your build back better bill? >> if we can get congressional vote rights, we should do it -- >> that's very important for the

president to say. there is nothing more important about voting rights domestically. i am sure this is already in motion. they are really focusing in on that now. >> no question about it. i think that the frustration i expressed yesterday and many expressed, we want to hear the president say that. he's going to south carolina and meetings with those of us in the civil rights leadership, there were some yesterday. we only want what he should be able to expect and that's to be able to vote without changing and who'll count the votes of these nullifications in georgia. that's the joe biden we come to know and he said what we want to

have said. words are good. >> jonathan, obviously there is going to be road bumps. you got to get into this. you got to start talking about this everyday and protecting voting rights, voting the next election so there is going to be bumps on the road. it was quite a pivot yesterday. >> his reaction to a real ground swell unhappy is frankly from a lot of democrats and activists of civil rights group, some believe that should have been the first job of this administration, the moment he took office in battling the pandemic. the president has not done that much yet. his hands are tied. there is going to be need around the filibuster.

it may not happen by year's end. some activists targeted mlk day. but, we also should take a step back to look at the break down of the build back better bill. joe manchin have said all along i don't think this is going to get done by year's end. the only person that thought it might is schumer. he's acknowledging the reality here when it comes to the moment of talks have really hit a snag where the president of the white house grown frustrated of where things were. the white house are fine with this moving onto january. they want to make sure it does get done. >> we'll talk about something schumer did announce yesterday which is great news for america and anybody that actually thinks we need to have representatives around the world as ambassadors look like he's going to get tough, we'll talk about that in a little bit.

i think ralph warnock going on the floor and saying wait a second you can just brush aside this filibuster, his holding up the pillars of american democracy when you want to raise the debt but you can't do it to protect voting rights? that's just an argument too compelling to ignore. >> it was a moving speech from a pastor who talked about a crisis in front of us of the foundation of democracy in the build back better bill. >> to stand and deliver? >> amen. >> comes in the tradition of john lewis presiding over john lewis and did what john lewis

wanted to do. let's remember we had to fight to get the right to vote and now we have to fight to keep it? i think what we saw yesterday was the children of those that got us there and stand up and speak. i was glad to see the president respond. i give him credit. he said the right thing. >> let's bring into conversation, jake sherman, also an msnbc's political contributor. good morning, good to see you. the bill was not finish and chuck schumer did not have the votes to pass it. they're not there, maybe they'll somehow find a way next year. is this not an acknowledgment that they need more time on this and they can turn their attention to voting rights which by the way is no legislative

lay-up either. >> voting rights is not going to happen this year, it may not happen at all. here is the reason why. kirsten sinema is still supported. she's still supported of the 60 votes thresholds. yes, there are ways to get around it. manchin told me yesterday he's not going to change the senate rule on the filibuster without bipartisan cooperation, he'll not get his vote to change the senate rules unless republicans agree to it. he told me two days ago, he knows he'll be in the minority some day and he does not want to change the rules about it. at this point, i am not passing judgment whether this is right, at this point, voting rights about the same place as the bbb which is not going to get done right now. i would have a difficult time.

biden is fully there. the people that needs pressuring if you are democrats are joe manchin and sinema. they are supporters of the filibuster. there are ways to reform the filibuster which have been talked about throughout time. manchin have said i am not changing the senate rules unless republicans agree. >> katty, manchin has been saying for six months now, maybe we move it to 55 or make people stand up. so we have that part. of course kirsten sinema just had to get in the mix yesterday because that's what she has to do and talk about oh, i am not going to support, blah,

blah -- that's fine. we can just do a legislative hand like they did with raising the debt ceiling. does sinema say oh, we can't -- she's okay doing it raising the debt ceiling making it a simple majority. there is a million and one way for smart legislatures to get together to figure out how to move that 60 requirements. you know how i know that? they just did. they can do it for democracy but they can do it. >> it's good to get reverend warnock and sinema in a room together for a little bit to see if they can have that conversation. >> they have been dreading the battle because they see the two senators standing in the way of this. well, it's great, we'll get out of build back better bill and what happens? we'll get straight into voting rights and it's not going to be easy. there is no illusion in the white house that this is going to be something that happens quickly even though president

biden himself is diagnostic of the filibuster. he does not cling to it particularly. they know it's going to be difficult and jake, to joe's point if you have a conversation with sinema about the idea of something that is not as clear as getting rid of the filibuster but as one of the other work arounds and you raise the debt limit as a possible example on how to do that, is it something she will be open to do here or sitting down a red line here? >> if you talk about some of the workarounds is the frequent filibuster. it's the most common work around for this. not lowering the threshold which joe's right. the talking filibuster is what

people talk about. if we dig in with manchin and sinema, okay, what do you mean about the talking filibuster and how do you get out of it and how do you end it besides someone relenting the floor, and sinema saying okay 60 votes. it will prolong and still to cut it off, we need 60 votes. i don't know how you work with these two senators who are not where the party is. manchin and it's difficult to explain how frustrating this is for democratic leadership and the white house. let's just for a quick example not to get too far. manchin says he'll support a $1.7 trillion bill yesterday. yesterday were december 15th yet, well, i want to extend the child tax credit for 10 years.

that's $1.4 trillion or $1.3 trillion. you basically say you want the build back better bill to be the child's tax credit. it's not easy. joe manchin has a right as any senator does and has a sway at 50/50 senate to do whatever he wants. you can't under estimate how difficult this is for senate democratic leadership and the white house. >> barack obama had to deal with jello being pinned to the wall for ten months everyday. people constantly moving and somebody cutting a deal with big pharmas and big hospitals,

trying to bring it all in and trying to get the deal done. this is called legislating. see what happens with inflation for dumping a couple trillion dollars more into the economy. but, at the end of the day you do it talking filibuster, make them get on the floor and make them talk. they keep talking and when they collapse, you sweep them off the floor and you take the vote. >> i think what we miss in the discussions and we brought it up with a zoom call yesterday with the senator, if you do it as a talking filibuster or by lowering the numbers of votes is still the filibuster. so when sinema says i am not for changing the filibuster, the

filibuster didn't start as 60 votes. but, if you are saying filibuster, it's still a filibuster how you filibuster. if we can change it getting voting rights through, and i think we'll be hearing from manchin is negotiation. that's what they call it. sure, he says this and he says that. he's negotiating. that's what they do in the senate. surprise, surprise. >> we are saying in middle of the negotiation, how ever you do it. bipartisan or single, does not matter. you must protect people's rights to vote because they are changing state laws as we speak. >> and jake, manchin has done this longer than most. he's done it as a governor, he's done it as a senator, he understands how legislation works. he knows how to negotiate. he was getting kicked around a couple of months ago, he came down and said hey, i am fine

with zero. you want to keep doing this and i can go back to west virginia with a zero and get reelected. suddenly he's meeting with joe biden and shaking hands at 3 .5. this is how it's done. they negotiate and sometimes they're tough when they negotiate, they get what's best for their people. exactly. there is no deadline for this legislation. of course you want to finish it in 2021 instead of 2022 because

it's more difficult. manchin, everything he does is for his home state politics, right? i think he'll vote for this bill, it will take time and the white house says schumer created this deadline so the next dead line matters. there is an argument where you have to set it to miss it than to miss the next one. manchin is going to be able to go home, listen, i turn this into the bill that was the green new deal that was super aggressive and i got a bill for you in west virginia, a state where i have represented and been elected officials for decades. remember west virginia went 40 points for donald trump. this is the kind of politics he has to play to get elected for democrats in west virginia. it's reality. remember if you don't have a democrat and if you don't haves manchin, mitch mcconnell is

majority leader. i always tell people on capitol hill when you get angry, you have to govern with the congress you have or you don't have. that's legislative politics. >> katty, if you look at sinema's number. progressive activists may be angry that sinema is the united states senate and people in the media cheering for the democrats and maybe upset about it. look at her numbers compaing to mark kelly's numbers. she's doing really well and does well with democrats. she has solid numbers out there. whatever that's confusing to us is working for the people of arizona. they think she's keeping the progressive caucus in line and by the way, upsets people in new

york and washington and l.a. and san francisco, they're pretty good with that in maricopa county. >> yeah, blue states and red states and purpose states and arizona is definitely in the purple state bracket. we just had a lesson from virginia which is if you try to nominate somebody they don't like feeling too far from the left. they feel it's acceptable. they're going to vote for them and the same is true in arizona. i think democrats know that the background of joe manchin it's what it's. it's frustration they can't get them over the line. it's beginning a creeping frustration. >> there is a thing. it's a legislative process. again, we have not legislated well over a decade.

it has not happened. you have two leaders in the house and three leaders in the senate, they get together and negotiate these massive bills and vote on this. this is a real give/take and this is what happens. jake sherman, a skunk at the party, i think he's in his pajamas, too. >> oh. >> how do we get that, jake? >> okay. i will sleep in it. >> just what we want for our christmas present. >> willie, i know you are a bodybuilder, i don't know if we have your size. >> i would like some. >> do you have 4 xl? i am asking for a friend. >> okay, thank you, jake very much for being on this morning. we had a big day yesterday. a big announcement. another huge step in women knowing their values around the world. this coming march i will be sharing a summit that brings together generations of women

and abu dabi marks international women's day in 2022. 30 under 30 and 50 under 50 list where we highlight the remarkable women and the work they have done in all stages of their careers and who better to help me roll out that news than the first lady of the united states, dr. jill biden. we sat down together at the event celebrating the first u.s. list for a wide ranging conversation which you will see straight ahead right here on "morning joe." dr. biden, a lifelong educator is issuing a bold call to action for women over 50 to help the course. we spoke yesterday and shattering misconceptions about age and gender in the work force when merged with leaders under

30s. these two communities are activating a worldwide movement of meaningful change that benefits women everywhere. and again, that event takes place in march in abu dhabi, we'll be ringing the bell at the stock exchange. you can hear more about the issue at the forefront of this movement on my new podcast "mika straight up," the first episode launches today and you can listen where ever you get your podcast. lots ahead. >> it's exciting. >> and still ahead on "morning joe" we'll be joined by senator jon tester of montana, one of the senators advocating a work around to the filibuster in order to pass the voting rights legislation. starting in the new year, new york city is about to get its

first female police commissioner, keehant sewell is joining us. >> also jim clyburn is ahead. you are watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. joe," we'll be right back. biden: this is the challenge of our collective lifetime. and every day we delay, the cost of inaction increases. we have the ability to invest in ourselves and build an equitable, clean energy future, and in the process, create millions of good-paying jobs and opportunities around the world. there's no more time to hang back or sit on the fence or argue amongst ourselves. so let this be the moment

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never allow to get in the name game. that's stopping today. amazing, that was in coming new york city mayor eric adams announcing the historic pick of his nypd commissioner. keechant sewell is making history to be the first woman to serve in new york city. adam promised he would hire a woman position. he came through. the chief of detectives in the nassau police department, nypd commissioner joins us now. welcome to the show.

congratulations. >> congratulations. . >> congratulations on so many levels. >> condolences. how wonderful, you destroyed the glass ceiling. it's exciting but now the tough parts begin. >> absolutely. i apologize my voice is a little off this morning. this is a tremendous opportunity that the mayor has provided for me and i don't take it lightly any way. >> you are coming in really at difficult times. one of the most difficult times for 1993. we saw the mayor of san francisco, enough is enough. we are going to be more aggressive in our policing out here and stop the crime wave. crime wave across the country obviously for new yorkers is what matters to them most. how do you strike that balance that mayor has been talking

about, obviously reform policing but also letting police officers to do their job without worrying and there is going to be no matter what they do, they're going to be attacked. >> the first thing we have to do is get hands-on the violence. we'll be laser-focus on that. we'll support officers to step up to do their job and we want to go to the communities for their ideas to support and how they can start on the initiatives and get a handle on this. >> a lot of cops have been back on their heels and afraid to go in and do things where they can put their lives on the line but also where they can put their careers on the line. how do you let them know, we are going to hold you accountable if you go over the line and do

things that are just out of line. but, you do your job but we got your back. >> we'll support the officers 100% and give them the tools and training they need. you have to have that support. we can't do anything about the community. when they support the police officers, we are going to be a given service they need. >> one of the great frustrations as you know and the current commissioner has pointed time and time again of this idea of revoling door of criminals. you arrest somebody on gun charge and somebody on the street and literally oftentimes officers are arrested in the same day. what's your position on cash bail and whether judges can have discretion about who they can hold. >> judges should have a discretion to decide who's a danger and whether or not they should release.

they have to strike a balance. we have to strike a balance? >> what would you like to see from law enforcement? >> someone that's a danger to the society or a danger to society should not be back out to commit more crimes. >> what about the police units that mayor de blasio take them off the street and mayor-elect says we may put them back to the street. will we see them back on the street. >> you will see the right police officers with the right amount of training and support. we have to make sure they have justifiable stops and we are putting the right people in the position who are sensitive to the community and positions we give them to enforce. >> commissioner sewell, first of

all congratulations. >> thank you. >> what you just mentioned in terms of the street crime units, how are you going to make sure that we do not go back to the days of stopping frisk, where the overwhelming majority of the people stop and frisk were people of color who had ended up doing no wrong. i think that we do not want to see crime down and don't want to see police. the last class of law enforcement of policemen with the majority were people of color. we fought to get police in the police department. now we want them to do their job but their jobs not to discriminate. how do we get the balance that say yes we need to deal with crimes but we do not need to commit crimes.

>> public safety and public accountability are not mutually exclusive. we have to have measurable results and make sure what we are doing is just and not over policing in communities who are under served of police. >> so during the course of the last year of the pandemic, shootings increase twofold in new york city but gun arrests are only 14%. how are you going to narrow that down. how are you going to make sure gun arrests are up with the number of shootings. that's way up. >> we clearly had a controversial program in the city stop and frisk. we can't go back to those days and at the same time there is in interesting tension between making sure that cops don't over shoot the runway and turn into bad cops but also able to keep the streets safe.

>> agree. >> it comes back to the initiative that we'll employ for our gun violence. you have to look at what nypd are doing now. sometimes it comes back to the neighborhood officers, the people who are there in the community that can help us give information. we have a program that we want to put together but it's going to take time to be able to assess. >> merrick garland ran, he won brooklyn and queens and staten island. >> they're thinking somehow

they're being so woke, i just kind of laugh and go wait a second, you live on the upper east side. you don't live in the toughest parts of the broncs. is it tough for you? they're not on the upper east side. there are truly a disadvantage who are fighting just to get by in the broncs. >> public safety, people want to feel safe no matter where they live. >> good luck, when do you start? >> beginning of january 1st. i am not in aggressive meetings to be able to hit the ground and

running. >> in coming commissioner sewell. >> and good luck with your voice. >> and maybe i will get some sleep. >> you are not going to get that for about four years. >> thank you so much. >> thank you. coming up, republicans have criticized the covid relief money are now spending it in their states. no problem at all. i will have the new reporting. plus, chuck schumer sets up a marathon series of votes to get president biden's ambassador nominees passed. "morning joe" is back in a moment. passed. "morning joe" is back in a moment

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city leaders say have fuelled a surge and gun violence and fentanyl overdoses. the sfpd tenderloin shared, here is what mayor breed had to say yesterday. >> we have to be more aggressive with law enforcement and the changes of our policies and less tolerance of all the bulls that destroyed our city. >> she's speaking for the people of the city. we talk about crimes in san francisco and portland and across the west coast. and people light up my twitter feed, san francisco is the safest city of the history of human kind. it ranks 248.

no, it's not. it's a dangerous city. it's a great city. i love san francisco. but, we have been hearing about this for a couple of years up and down the west coast. target and other stores having to shutdown at 5:00 or 6:00 because people go in and loot. >> absolutely. one of this things that's good of that is seeing people like mayor breed and eric adams. they are showing the majority of the african-americans and down latinos and asian community who have always said we want police reform but we want policing to be fair. some have been on the fringe and not the victim of police brutality of all crimes. they're able to take the stage

and now we are seeing people coming from the leadership and speak to the real issue. we do not want to see crime and we do not want to see police. we don't want to be beaten by the cops or the robbers. i am very happy to see. a lot of the people that who had nothing to do but proper police reform movement that just sits around on blogs on their way to their lattes and sipping it while we are having our homes robbed. they just look forward to the next blog. >> 100. >> you do keep saying people are talking about us that never come to see us and never come to visit us. it's very easy for somebody and

parts of brooklyn to tweet that you got to defund the police where four miles from there or two miles from there, single moms who are scared to death everyday, her son or daughter walks to school. we see from council people saying this. we don't want less cops in our neighborhood, we want more on the street and more in schools. we need our children to be safe. >> two weeks after i did the urology at george floyd's funeral. i did a urology for a young kid that was killed in brooklyn new york. gunpoint to be able to talk to the family of floyd's of policing but i have to talk to the mother and father of the one-year-old kid. how do i explain to them that we

don't want proper policing? i am going to the center of the problem. the problem is we need to fight criminals whether they are in blue jeans or uniform and you can write whatever blog you want. >> there is been a huge debate, willie, most law enforcement people -- we stop putting up with the little crimes which fed in stopping more series of crimes. right now people can just walk into stores and steal food and drugs and steal whatever they want it in new york city. that would have been

unimaginable even three years ago. unimaginable. >> i was just saying to katty, i was in a deli and this guy walked in and took a bunch of things on shelf. there is a sense of impunity and i think that's what the upcoming commissioner was talking about. it's social justice to tell people you can steal as much as you want in san francisco as long as it's under value of $950 and put that in the same category over police and doing all the things that have to be done in this country to keep us safe and protect people who have not been protected for too long is insanity. go steal what you want.

>> who owns that deli? it may well be an immigrant family or a black or brown family. they're the ones that are suffering from that incident of crime. they feel powerless because as you say who knows whether the guy has a gun. in this country, you don't know whether a gun is going to get pulled over you. >> or what about people working at the 5:00 or 6:00 walgreens that had to close in san francisco? >> there is been elections over the past several years of very progressive das and we have talked about it on west coast. very progressive das that don't want to prosecute -- that have a really skewed view of how to run their departments and it's just like all the criminal justice reform bills that were passed

when crimes at a 50-year low. that's the wrong time to pass them. >> pass those bills when crimes are at a 50-year high. see what the system can absorb, see how you can improve the system even when it's under stressed. everybody has a false sense of security. because of the false sense of security, the bell reform. all these das they get elected were going to be touchy and feely with crimes. it's blown up in everybody's faces. the latest of the recovery effort of kentucky following ing president's visit, the storm ravaged the states yesterday. we'll have that, "morning joe" is coming right back. that, "mo" is coming right back i'll categorize expenses, reconcile accounts, and close your books. cool. yep. know where your business stands.

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the top of the hour on the east coast, welcome back to "morning joe," it's thursday, december 16th. jonathan lemire and reverend al sharpton is still with us. joining us, john helman, good to have you. >> sure. >> i promise, i would not say it if i didn't mean it. >> an author of the "winners take all," alan is here with us. good to see you. >> good to see you. >> that seems more genuine to me. >> a lot of warmth, oh, you look

great. please to have helman here. >> so john, before we get on, we are talking about what we were talking about yesterday, you have this past year, you have judges and election officials and you have judges of all strikes appointed by trump and appointed by obama. you name it who literally saved american democracy since it was in its most precarious state in 1885. time magazine -- >> i am not going to try to argue for us because that's a

fool's error. "time" magazine said for a long time, i believe hitler was on the cover as he was. they said many times this was not the most valued person or most positive and who's the most consequential. i agree. i think that's the first piece of context. second piece of context, the magazine business is in a lot of trouble and i know there is commercial pressure to sell magazines. who can you put on the cover that can help us survive. i am trying to stipulate. he's really -- he probably exemplifies all the elements of capital and more scathing than i

do. so there is a case for a big story of elon musk. he's super irritating to a lot of people. >> super irritating. >> it's not a lot of magazines that's going to sell. this is not a magazine that is going to fly off the stand. again, there are so many people -- >> test not about elon. >> i agree. >> it's about comparing an office that saved the life of the president of the united states. >> that was able to make a vaccine that stops a pandemic. >> yeah, john. >> i understand but i am not trying to argue for that. >> i am trying to put my head because i think it's a misfired and i know you said yesterday they did have a cure in the

issue and there is a cure of the year that they try to give credits to some of the other people. if it were me, he would not have been my pick. >> we are jumping up and down on elon musk. it could have been any business person. again, people that saved democracy is not an over statement. people who saved democracy, it would have seen may without merritt a cover. >> they're kind of up against a troll army and an anti-government troll. i was walking along in brooklyn which is what we do in brooklyn. the art and this very older

woman joins the tour. it's like what do you do? i write a book. "winners' error." what do you have in mind? do you think they're changing the world? no, they're grabbing more power. >> very rich. >> the conversation quiets down a little bit and she moves on. my friend said "is it so cool that elon musk is in the studio"? >> i would not have put him on the cover. >> even for his mom. >> i would put his mom on the cover. >> it's just okay, let's stop. >> one other thing, too. >> okay? >> if you were to put elon musk on the cover. >> they can do what they want

but -- >> it seems the me the story coming out of the pandemic this year is the fact that we have a system that allows people like elon musk to make tens of billions of dollars. there are entrepreneurs that i greatly admire -- they make billions and billions of dollars and they're not paying taxes. they're just not paying taxes. amazon hardly pays taxes. and pro-republica where they look at tens of millions of people that pays like 6% of income taxes. this idea of elon musk and jeff bezos can invest billions of dollars and the stock market can

go up 50% and they can make twice as much and so they're worth 20 billion more dollars. that's a system that we have right now. it's a system that's got to change. by the way, that's something that i think most republicans and democrats, outside of washington would look at that and go this does not make sense. we had one of the greatest transfers of wealth to these small groups of people in the past year and a half and he's on the cover? i mean -- >> those covers have consequences. not a lot of people may read the articles, kids form their idea of who are my heroes and what kind of life do i want to pursue if i have great mind and talent, how do i want to invest in it?

the last generation we spent too much energy in people like that when the kind of people who get no love everyone when they stand in defense of democracy. >> not just the cover but person of the year. that's what i am raising and comparing to the doctors who did the vaccines and officers who did the right thing to save the capitol and save the lives. as a person of the year compares to the other people, that's what i want to talk about. >> i want to talk about what you have been looking at and study for some time. i do think we are coming to a point. we really didn't understand what was going on in technology, before the crash of 2008 and trying to figure out what those were and finally end up going, i

got the sports section. they're sports, they got to know what's going on. that's our attitude towards these tech giants. i am talking about a 2:30 meeting needing to be changed and stripped so these people can be sued like anybody else. i voted for the reform in '96 to create that. cops can serve and didn't want to be sued for the 12 people that put comments at the bottom. sort of made sense in 1996, i guess. it does not make sense now. congress has maintained that laisse-fare approach. >> i don't know anybody since john rockefeller has had his

unfeathered power as zuckerberg has right now where no one stands up to him in the company and no one stands up to him in congress and at the white house. no one really stands up to him in the media. he is a robber barron. elon musk is a robber barron. these people are robber barrons and we have seen the greatest transfer of wealth? which republicans ought to say oh, we don't like redistributing income? oh really? the tax policies i have supported through the '80s and '90s and continued to be supported have created the greatest income redistribution in the history of this planet from middle class americans to the elon musk of the world. it's grotesque.

>> the trends are so bad that you and i are now sounding the same talking about these issues. >> how many people, brother? come on. i bet you most republicans outside of washington. >> regular people republicans. 55% of immigrants -- regular people, not people in congress. >> you are absolutely right, we all know those of us that do this work, there is nothing more powerful in life than the stories. in the 1990s around the time you are voting for 230. there was a story that told by the tech people that the world is hierarchal and unstratified. >> what happens is a consolidation beyond our wildest dreams. more companies mattered in the 1990s than there are now.

we are looking at five companies essentially dominating everything now. >> can i just really quickly jump in? one of the greatest stories i used to tell is a bunch of hippies from berkeley, they go to bill gates garage and they create microsoft and i would only say only in america microsoft is a monopoly, it's one of those powerful companies in the world because of a monopoly. it's crushing, by the way, it's not microsoft's fault. microsoft has the law on their side. they are crushing a thousand new microsof every single day because congress protects them and won't break them into a billion pieces and won't break facebook and won't do what we did for the bell company. when we broke them in a thousand

pieces. this is a result. we would never got this from our bell. it revolutionized the world. >> monopoly is like a democracy. when you have very few companies ta own everything, own all technology and everything now is technology. every time someone has a dream that could change the world. it's a large chance that will be gobbled up and killed because of these monopolies. mark zuckerberg is not just on a park with john rockefeller. the coal and oil and steel of that era did not have pipes and they did not have the power to make our teenage daughters hate themselves every single day. this is it is same level of economic power. it's a level of cognitive over people's lives and brains.

>> they go home and keep making their money and run their big company. what is reasonable to expect from the government and society to change the dynamic you are talking about. >> in this particular conversation there are two eras, i have little kids, they ride in car seats, there is like a lot of techs about all the regulations that car seats are subjected to. you can't make a car seat without going through a number of laws that make them safe. it's remarkable that facebook can essentially be the portal of electoral democracy and not be subjected to anything. we need tech regulations. these guys are a broader group of people, hijacked democracy

and yanking their profits higher. we need to tax them, tax the capital gains and look at wealth taxation and make sure they pay the taxes they already owe under the existing code as you said. >> suggesting a lawsuit as everyone elelses. >> yes, accountability. >> we have a democratic house and democratic senate and a democratic president. out of the house came a tax bill that completely left, the elon musk, completely left the zuckerberg. untouched. we are going to go. we are going to go after income. we are going to tax them. small business owners, we are going to tax them. we are not going to tax capitals. we'll let the billionaire

getting richer and richer. we'll just raise taxes on who work. >> i think you know and i cover microsoft for a long time. the biggest problem with regulating tech and industry. the government is totally clueless. by the time they decide to do something, the industry is so far ahead of them that they don't know. instagram and we talked about it on the show all the time. you get senator blumenthal with all due respect of the one exchange and facebook, have you guys cancelled finster. it's the thing that their kids have their private account. it's not a policy or a feature. senator blumenthal was

well-intentioned, he was demonstrating a problem. people who are focusing on this in congress had no idea what they're talking about. their best effort in regulating the industry almost fail. the problem is the nature of capitalism. this is a conversation that no one wants to engage in because capitalism won. we are all capitalists around the table and we sit here and go, i like capitalism and i like the fact that i can buy the stuff i buy. consumer capitalism, there is competition around us for basically the last 200 years. >> i don't want anymore. >> capitalism has been regulated. >> it has been. as capitalism became the system that we all basically said that's the winning system.

it's the system gives us innovation and democracy and wiped out all the competitors and it's a run away train. >> capitalism is a free market of ideas. it's companies fighting each other. i always said in congress, you want lawyers to be able to go out and sue the hell out of companies. we can't figure out how to fix instagram's problems but i can tell you who can. the lawyers for instagram after they get crushed by class action lawsuits from parents of girls who have died or suffered emotional distressed because of them and suddenly, the lawyers come to -- hey, mark, listen, you are going to keep on losing money in market values until it's not worth it.

it has in the past in different ways. my point the thing is, the capture of congress by the donor class is so complete that no one has these conversations in the congress and the country. well, a lot of people are like let's have structural reform. in congress has been wholly captured by this system of capital. we don't have conversations like this anymore. wait a minute, hold on, this thing has run a workshop over everything and have the conversation you want to have. no one has that. >> it's not capitalism.

the income disparity isgrowing at such a rate. it has killed competition. >> i agree with those. >> i agree it's capitalism on steroids. the definition of capitalism is fundable. the capitalism we have is the capitalism we got. how do we try to have a conversation about what the proper constraints are? no one wants to have this conversation. >> it's not even a question whether it used to be better or not. back in the 1960s or the '70s. the difference between ceos and the people who worked for them is min minuscule. >> it does not speak to people's

experience. let's speak practically, if you are a real person living in this system because by the way france has capitalism and germany and denmark and they all have different outcomes. we have a lot of choice. it's not all or nothing. the question becomes practical if you are a new mother today with a business idea that could become a $30 million business but you can't get child care to get it off the ground in the first few years because this country like any others does not afford you that. is that capitalism? if you a person working at ibm because you have a business idea but you can't quit ibm -- is that capitalism? if you are an immigrant in seattle in the shadow of microsoft who has a cool

calendar product but you can't get it off the ground because microsoft is going to murder your company, is that capitalism? >> the third one that you mentioned, i am not saying the first two are not problems but capitalism has thrived to spikes those challenges and limitations. it's the third one that you bring up. if you are innovative if you are smart and smart and if you have a good product than microsoft or amazon, you name the monopoly, they'll murder your company in the crib. by the way, instead of having that $300 million that's going to employ 300 people, they'll keep crushing you and then they'll say i will tell you what, instead of us destroying you, we'll pay you a million dollars and we'll take your company over. they'll do that and then it's all over. >> yes. >> and so i think we have to decide and get beneath the big

words and realize we can actually have nice things in america. we can have the same thing that people have in other rich countries that we want. that's a choice. a lot of country have less money than ours that frankly have less amazing innovations and entrepreneurship, people don't liver in fear for their retirement and people don't worry that their kids don't get into charter school lottery. in many, many rich countries. i have been to those countries and reported on those countries. the anxiety that are consuming the people that are watching this right now do not consume people. people think about other stuff all day long. you all travel to these places, too. it's a real choice we have. we have to kind of stand up and realize that this capture of power by this --

>> i will say to this and to your point, you said back in the ''70s, evil geniuses, the more intrusive was dismantled by your party, then most of the established democratic party decided that was the way we want to go, too. this is kind of the issue. the issue is that version that you are appealing to of what the economy looks like, the better

version is capitalism. i agree with it. that got trampled by a bipartisan consensus adopted a set of policies around -- >> it was a reaction to 40 years of the growth of the welfare states. it was a reaction that americans are ready for that and i say after 40 years of going in one direction where republicans, we all think of the federal level but even on the local level of the stupid decisions that's made on the local level completely stripped government services from americans. that's going to blow up in their face politically at some point and i believe there is going to

be reaction to it and there needs to be a reaction to it. here is a great example, medicaid. we are going to cut medicaid. you know medicaid helps the most? rural hospitals. we are already suffering and already dying on the vines and you slash -- did i say medicare? i am sorry, medicaid. it's poor people sharing insurance. we have a moral responsibility to take care of but it's also rural hospitals and that senior facilities and rev, it's a lot of different things. again, i think the republican party if they want to survive with meteor falls to the sky and nobody wants to hear me talk

about it, if they want to survivor over the next 10 or 15 years, they have to understand that just like the 40-year arc of the new deal come to an end of reaganism, we have to figure out what's next and i don't think republicans want plutocrates running america next. >> you raise the question well. you talk about there are countries that are doing well and have a better form of capitalism, well, if the plutocrates are controlling what we are reading and watching, we don't know about those countries. yes, those around the table have been there but the average person that's dealing with these screens that are being

programmed by people that don't want you to know about that. >> correct. >> that's the point that you are making joe, i remember talking to people five or six years ago that says to me, i am talking about rural neighborhoods. i don't want that obamacare. they were programmed by some republicans to be against obamacare but they wanted affordable care act when that was obamacare. we are being programmed by people who are making profits of making us dumb down in terms of what social policies and about. >> most of us agree that in america if you have a great idea and if you have a google guy in the garage with successful idea, i can click a button and getting whatever i want, you deserve the reward of that. and you think of spanx. >> it's amazing.

>> is there a man spanx? >> you know the answer to that question. >> we agree that you should have the rewards of that idea. you brought something that's popular and people enjoy and it helps. the guardrails need to be there. again just to go back to the original point, this does not seem to be any compulsion of congress and not just from republicans and yes, democrats. yes, bernie sanders and elizabeth warren. they don't take the opportunity. >> i think that's right. and i think if you look at joe

biden, this kind of however long blocks and i think we are at a cusp of potentially another one and we see that in joe biden. joe biden comes into office 1981, votes for the reagan government cuts and tax cuts that kind of where the seabed of this era. >> it's 40 years later, he spent more money than president obama and president clinton and kind of doing so less apologetically. i think joe biden lives in the conversation we are having now and joe biden has liver long enough to see the plutocracy capture.

. i think this conversation reflects it and people watching this needs to actually educate themselves about the choices we face. either it's a plutocracy or a democracy can't have both. >> a great conversation. again, we have got commercial free. this commercial free of "morning joe" has brought to you by tesla. >> and spanx. >> for sure! >> thank you willie. >> keeping it tight. >> feeling good. >> still ahead on "morning joe," democrats launched a new effort to break the gop blockade on president biden's key diplomatic picks. plus, jim clyburn joins us in a report that democrats will pick on the president's social spending program to voting rights. next hour, my conversation with

the first lady dr. jill biden who celebrated the inaugural 50 over 50 list in the united states. we announced yesterday 50 over 50 is going global this march during international women's day, i will be cheer sharing a ground breaking global event in abu dhabi for the forbes' 30/50 summit. the list. this morning i will be ringing in the opening bell at the nasdaq to celebrate the forbes' know your value announcement. we'll be right back. e announcemt we'll be right back. as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i love liberty mutual. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪

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for just $30 per line per month when you get four lines or mix and match data options. available now for comcast business internet customers with no line-activation fees or term contract required. see if you can save by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities. chuck, you can get this done in a week. >> this is like the easy part.

>> do what a republican would do and start monday morning at 9:00 a.m. and work them through thanksgiving. ted will get the message. you will make this hard? okay, we'll go two hours for the ambassador. we'll have you working around the clock through thanksgiving. we'll have some canned turkey brought in for you guys. >> that'll move them. yesterday we learned -- >> that's what i like about canned turkey, you can eat it cold with a spoon. >> delicious. >> yesterday we learned senate majority leader schumer is taking steps to push through many of the white house's nominees after almost a year of republican obstruction. axios reports schumer teed up votes on more than 20 nominees looking to buck efforts led by

senaor ted cruz to block president biden's picks. this sets up a marathon process that could keep lawmakers in washington until the middle of next week. >> in words of team wilder and willie wonka. >> jonathan lemire is still with us. >> don't do that. that'll make it terrible for them to stay there. >> do your jobs. >> all right, you want to make us do this every two hour? all right, buckle up.

looks like he's moving that direction. >> joe, the clip you just played and we are sitting here and still doing that. this is a different and aggressive new strategy here. we heard from the white house yesterday and deputy karine jean-pierre, it's time to do this and schumer threatening more for next week and marco rubio who's been holding up one of the ambassador china's pick. that's good news. his predecessor in the first year, donald trump had 73% and george w. bush had 90%.

this white house is not wrong although they are being unfairly targeted here by republican senators blocking their ambassadorships. i think we should expect more of these ambassadors to get through the next few days ahead of the holiday. you have republicans who are just concerned about this. we need ambassadors across the world to represent america. this makes us weaker, that's a republican telling other republicans, we have to get this. again, chuck schumer runs the

senate. >> how many? >> 10. >> they want get home from christmas. >> is it sometimes near the end of december? >> the problem with my math is i don't know what today is. nine days. >> i think december 25th? >> i think again it's not like those days move around like thanksgiving. chuck, just start it up. we'll start now. >> as you know better than this table, not gets people moving and not getting back for christmas and holiday. my question is to what ends to ted cruz? what are they holding this up

over? >> tom cotton held up u.s. attorneys for ag months and on the explicit argument that he was mad with dick durbin for interrupting him in a hearing for eight months. >> are you kidding me? >> this is not a controversy. >> tom cotton said for eight months -- >> he says i am not going to go forward until the gentleman from illinois for interrupting me. until after eight months, i am sorry about that. i think sometimes there is a point and ted cruz, he's not the united states senator.

>> they said they want to get tony blinken and jake sullivan fired. >> one, we have ted cruz who was concerned about something that a hell a lot of americans and allies are concerned about. and then you ever masculinity. he's the one that wants to fire. he's going to open people up until they fire people which is just insanity. it's reckless. it's not going to happen. >> they're trying to own the libs, that's all. >> this is all performative politics. these obstructionist tactics are about how do i get more followers or how do i get more

of the credit from the right-wing noise machine? this is not serious policymaking or argumentation. it's just winning the game on right-wing social media. what ted cruz did at the beginning, that's normal washington fair. what will happen is after a couple of weeks of wrangling and going to the administration and they strike a deal, i understand the administration is trying to strike a deal with senator cruz on this, that's one thing. it's quite another to say you have to fight your national security adviser or i am not going to get you there. that's sheer recklessness from a guy with -- >> okay, stop. coming up, major news --

>> hold on, jonathan. >> i will ignore the bird's hands. there is a difference between a principle objection about something because somebody you care about and trying to institute your own foreign policy when you are a senator and not the president. that's what we have seen from a number of these republicans who were trying to suggest, no, this is how the united states should treat the world as opposed to the person who elect by the voters of the country to do so. the biden team admitted, they inherited. it's 90% done. they feel like it's nothing they can do. some of these ambassador holdups that are right now in the midst of global hot spots. ukraine. russia and of course the issue of china. these are matters right now. we have global implications that

they're going to shape. the world itself, there are troops at the border of ukraine. that's why this is different and the white house has really up their rhetoric in recent weeks. this is not acceptable. we need to get or ambassadors in place. >> it's good news to hear finally that you have nick burns going to be able to go to china. we desperately need an ambassador in china. and tom knight, he's going there. he has really good contacts of capitol hill. he was able to get out early. we need -- we need robert emanuel in tokyo. >> for sure. >> i am a little worried about the japanese. anyway we need a u.s. ambassador in japan because that's another

key ally in a region that's super hot at the moment. >> and macarthur was there 5-49. >> she knows how polite and diplomatic the japanese are. >> definitely. >> yes, we do. >> we talk a lot on this program about american foreign policy. one of the things that throw allies that when they do not have the presidents here in their country. it makes them feel they are not particularly respected and no one to turn to and unimportant to washington's eyes. to some extent diplomacies today, there are something symbolic about washington sending somebody the president

values and respects and will listen to your capital. >> there is something you have to say in person across the table that you can't say on zoom. >> if you are a republican who cares about america and even if you disagree with joe biden's foreign policy, the country is serving better by having a ambassador in these countries and the most important countries of the world. the country is served better even if you disagree with their policies than having a post stamp-it for a year. >> especially we have the crisis in ukraine and putin may be invading in ukraine and the crisis in taiwan right now. >> iran. >> the crisis we have in iran. we need our ambassadors on the ground. >> that's insane that we have to say it out loud. so self-evidence that people

have to make that case. >> by the way, john was not exaggerating about john cotton. >> you thought i was making it up? >> durbin finally said okay, and cotton voted to confirm. >> i fact-checked that and you thought i was exaggerating. >> can you imagine being that childish? if i said that in a committee, by the time i get out of the room into the cloak room, my chief of staff and three other people would have said to me, get the blank back into that room and clean it up and stop acting like a child. >> they would have not let me back into my office and my mom

would call me and said joe, you made a jackass of yourself today, we did not raise you to act like a five-year-old. where are the people's saying senator -- america's i'm dumb founded by this. as we would say in the south, where were they raised? in a barn? come on. >> this is what we've been discussing all morning. i think a lot of times we make it left wing/right wing when it's immature men and women. some have nothing to do with what side you're on politically. >> it's adults versus toddlers. >> taking care of serious business here. we're in the middle of a

pandemic and need to deal with things like a global pandemic all the way to trade issues, all the way to possible invasion of ukraine, and you're worried about somebody didn't say something to you or interrupted you? i mean, this is childish. this is not right wing. this is childish. >> yeah. >> joe, i'm still waiting for an apology. you interrupted me on a show back in march and i haven't heard a word from you. >> i think that was march of 2011. >> i was just going to say early in this segment that if nobody would work here if i interrupted them -- >> oh, we'd have no show. >> it would have been shut down. >> this is what it would look like. okay, coming up -- >> so newt gingrich is here -- >> back when i was in congress. >> this is why women walk into a room saying, sorry, sorry, sorry. >> not apologizing. you're zipping it. coming up, major news from

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♪ merry christmas baby ♪ that is the jesus christ all american s.e.c. football tree, anchored down, roll tide tree. don't even look at it wrong or else you hate all of those things. we've learned from the fox all-american tree. that's branding, willie. we do this comcast commerce tree, no, no, no. i like our new tree. >> you have to name it after chick-fil-a or something so the sandwiches come in. >> i've got it.

the whataburger tree. >> let's aim higher, brought to you by tesla. >> no, no, i want a chick-fil-a -- >> that's christmas music from bruce springsteen who will have a very merry christmas. he sold his publishing catalog to sony for a reported half a billion dollars. billboards reports his masters go to sony music and publishing to sony music publishing in a combined deal. the catalog includes his 15 times platinum qush born in the usa" album. "the new york times" reports the deal is likely the largest transaction for an artist's body of work. bob dillon sold more than 600 songs to universal just over a year ago for a reported $300 million. >> so, john, it is pretty extraordinary that artists

continue to live on, continue to get richer. that was the golden day of music and these people -- it started with bowie, i think, and they continue selling catalogs for outrageous amounts. >> you can't be in the world of music, which is all fractionalized. nobody is bruce springsteen anymore, nobody makes songs, or even u2, that are that big anymore. the market is too fragmented. these people who made songs that actually played out of people's car windows in the summertime, the country knows them in a way no one knows bands of this era that were pervasive. they had incredible market power and it says something about the longevity and just the way in which so much of his music is soaked in that he's able to capitalize in this way. more power to him. >> and, rev, you know a lot about the music business.

instead of spotify and james brown having to compete with 10,000 artists releasing new stuff every day, you have one radio station in macon, georgia, everybody is hearing james brown. atlanta, georgia, jacksonville, you have one or two stations playing the same 15, 20 hits, and the whole country knows the music, knows the star, knows the catalog. >> in the era i grew up looking up to james brown, you can identify those artists, and those artists today -- james brown's estate sold for $90 million last week which is unheard of. today my kids would not be able to identify an artist we would know.

i was telling my daughter this, dominique, the difference between artists today when i was in my teens and 20s is james brown, my mother knew, my grandmother knew, and my daughter knew. today my daughter may know an artist that i don't know, her grandparents don't know. you don't have that kind of continuity in terms of a generation which also brings down their value, the market value. >> even within a generation, a lot of kids in college, the hip-hop fans nope the hip-hop music but don't know the dance band or groups or the alt rock groups. it's so much more silent and segmented. >> i was able to keep up until about 2007-2008, when brooklyn exploded. you could -- there were six, seven, eight, nine awesome bands in brooklyn. it's fractured to such a degree i've given up. you're right about james brown.

my aunt, who is 92 right now, for some reason we are talking about michael jackson back when he hit and went really big. and she looked at him, he's copying james brown. >> james brown said the same thing. >> you know, willie, this was so unifying, this world that we used to live in where you'd have these radio stations. a great example of how i'm so connected to it and i know you are, too. willie, you are too young for this. once upon a time in hollywood for me what made that so extraordinary brad pitt being unbelievable, they had those old recordings of the l.a. deejays, people going down the 405 introducing these and it just took me back to that time where we were all united. we were all listening to the

same radio stations and when you traveled into new cities listening to who is the deejay here and it was exciting. what do you think about once upon a time in hollywood? oh, it's okay. >> i will say, i have a 14-year-old and a 12-year-old there is a collection of songs you hear over and over. if you're in the car there's ed sheeran and olivia rodrigo, juice wrld and all these people. also to your point, you pass back what you grew up on, zeppelin and the stones. my son george is 12. he's the drummer in a led zeppelin cover band. >> no way! >> led zeppelin, he's 12 years old. he knows all their songs front to back. >> are you trying to say little george geist? >> he said i won't drink 42

shots in one night or whatever happened. the fun stuff to teach each other. >> the movie "abba," the kids all listen to it. there is still some stuff they listen to. it is just past the top of the hour, 8:03. with the delta variant still wreaking havoc and the omicron variant spreading fast, hospitals are bracing for what could be a looming crisis. the latest on that plus president biden tours the devastation from the weekend's deadly tornadoes. we'll see how survivors are coping and democrats set to shift their focus from the president's build back better agenda to voting rights. but there is a hurdle in the way. house majority whip jim clyburn and senator john tester join us to talk about that and much

more. the third-ranking democrat in the house. >> jim, how important -- it's great to see you as always, buddy. >> always. >> how important is it hr-4, john lewis' voting rights bill, gets passed? >> thank you for having me. it is very, very important. the voting rights act deal doing things before they are put in place. and that will be what we need to do regarding these bills that are being passed by georgia and over in texas. these things will allow nullification to take place. years to undo it have been done.

the voting rights advancement act is very, very important to this process. >> congressman, good morning. it's willie geist. we talk sort of in short hand about the john lewis bill here, but can you lay out a little bit of the particulars that are in there that you think make it so crucial and also on the back end of what happens counting the votes? >> you may remember when the supreme court got the voting rights act of 1965, it played to congress. we went back and did that. and that is what is in the john r. lewis voting rights act. dealing with the history of

voting and that formula would allow us to preemptively look in the law that's passed. you look at the georgia law and you say before it's ever implemented there is a problem here. we need to clean this up. that means declare the law before it is used. that is what's important about john r. lewis and the same thing should apply for redistricting. the supreme court said, yes, you can do -- you will have redistricting but you cannot do racial considerations, and we do know that some of what is taking place now especially in texas and georgia deals with the issue of race.

>> you and i and martin luther king met and the end of august, you kept telling us watch nullification. we've seen what you're talking about because they've removed local election boards and are deciding who counts the vote. that's one. the president is coming to south carolina and you, more than anyone, despite some people in the civil rights community going with other candidates said, no, i'm going with biden. the whole thing switched on you. you know i will criticize him when i feel he's done wrong, but he said voting rights are

important. we need him to address the filibuster. will you be talking to the president about the filibuster that people like senator tester and others have said we have to find a way around it? will you be dealing with that when he comes to south carolina tomorrow? >> thank you so much for holding your fire back then. what we have to do here is find a way to preserve the filibuster because that's what the president wants to do but at the same time be able to deal with voting rights. you may recall about six months ago, and i know you recall, clyburn, what i said at the time constitutional issues like voting and budget issues like what we've just done with

raising the debt ceiling. we can do this and not disrupt the filibuster. i agree we have to do the voting rights act, and we don't have to destroy the filibuster. i know what i can use, i know the history of it. we ought to get rid of it and just remember the moment they get the chance, republicans will get rid of a filibuster no matter what they may tell you to the contrary. >> congressman clyburn, we're going to talk to senator tester in just a moment, but rev mentioned that president biden is coming to south carolina, the first time back since his primary win there -- >> for a good reason. >> on your shoulders -- yes. and he will be speaking at your alma mater. tell us what that means to you. >> it means a great deal to me.

graduated from 60 years ago today this month, almost to the day. but back then they would not allow but one per year. i finished my work in december, i have to go back the next year to march. they sent my diploma in the mail. i didn't feel compelled to go back. so i never marched. the president of the school knew the story and invited me to come and march on my 60th anniversary, and he said to me, we would leak you to do the commencement address. well, i just decided that they would much rather hear from the president of the united states than me. i asked the president to do the commencement address. he agreed to do it and i said to him i would feel honored to be able to get my diploma from you 60 years later. >> i love it.

beautiful. >> so 60 years later you're going to walk the stage and get the diploma from the president. >> i love it. >> congratulations, jim. it sounds like such an extraordinarily important weekend. congratulations. we're so proud. >> thank you so much and i'm inviting you and all your alabama fans to come to atlanta on saturday for the celebration. >> wow. >> i have this big event going on, jackson state, where he went, south carolina state, where i went, bennie thompson and i will have a barbecue. >> okay! >> i'll be there. >> that's the invitation of a lifetime. house majority whip jim clyburn, thank you very much for being on this morning. we turn now to democratic senator john tester of montana. >> senator, your ears must have been burning because people kept talking about you. >> he's sitting right there. >> so, first of all, let's talk about the idea that it is put

off while the legislation is being written, all the things joe has been talking three to four months gets done and we move to voting rights. does that sound like a good idea to you? good plan? >> i think it is a good plan. i've said in bdb the plan isn't as important as what's in it and i think doing it right is a smart move and then, look, on your previous segments you talked about the fact we need to get the agencies staffed up and get these folks confirmed. i think that really is job one. and that's what we will be focused on to get our agency staffed up. the threats are real. we need to have a functioning government here. >> getting voting rights moving forward. you can't get that done with the votes you have right now which is maybe not even quite 50 but 50 at best with democrats.

talking about can congressman clyburn. so where are you on the filibuster? i know you've supported it, you believe it's important. senator sinema agrees with you on that. what's the way forward? >> i still believe in the filibuster. i think it helps bring people together. what this is about is making the senate work again and restoring it back to the good old days. there are things we can do to adjust the filibuster, to protect minority rights and not have it weaponized where one person can have veto power over the united states senate. this isn't about abolishing the filibuster this is about modifying it so that it works, protecting minority rights, being able to do serious legislation moving forward. >> what do you say to senator sinema and others who say i

don't want to mess with the filibuster even in this case? >> i think, like i said, you have to take a look at the senate to see what's happened in the past and are you happy with the way the senate is working? i don't know anybody who is happy with the way the senate is working. i think it's important just to have the conversation, bring people onboard. it's not just about senator sinema or senator manchin or any other senator, myself or anybody, it's about doing what's right for the country, restoring our democracy, and making sure that the senate truly is a functioning body because it's not right now. >> senator tester, in this cause, in the cause of trying to reform the filibuster and the way you're talking about and to get to voting rights and other things, what exactly would you like to see? the president's intercession in

moving the infrastructure bill and build back better through the house often requires a president to get personally involved. what would those things be? >> well, look, joe is a creature of the united states senate and he's a great president and he was a great senator, and i think that moving forward he just needs to influence everybody he can influence on both sides of the aisle on this because he does have friends in the united states senate on both sides of the aisle. and being able to talk about why we need to get things done, look, you talked about china, you talked about russia and about the challenges we have here, the rescue plan and all that. the truth is there's so much more to do. he needs to talk to his friends on both sides of the aisle. >> senator, katty kay, it does seem that on the build back better bill talks between

president biden and senator joe manchin went pretty badly during the course of this week. do you get a sense senator manchin is trying to back out of a deal with the white house? i think the assumption has been we would get there. maybe some time next year. do you think there's any scenario in which it doesn't get passed, at least not at 1.75 as it is at the moment? >> i think there's folks that are concerned about some of the aspects of build back better, and i think nobody is locked in including joe or anybody else. fixing through negotiations and i think that's what it will take to get everybody onboard, not just joe but everybody. i talked to a lot of members in the senate, and there are certain sections, not the whole thing, but certain sections, that they would like to see modified and that's part of the

process and i think it's all doable, a matter of sitting down at the table and pounding it out. >> senator, al sharpton. as you've taken, i think, a strong stand around getting voting rights forward, do you think your colleagues understand that while they are deliberating that states are actually passing laws that undermine even the right to count the vote they're putting in their own local election boards? i heard the vice president say the other day we're talking about autocracy as opposed to democracy. do you think while we're discussing how you modify the filibuster i may be opposed to it but you've taken a stand of modifying, which i think is a courageous stand for you. do you think the gravity of what we're looking at is understood by your colleagues that seem to be tempered in some cases on this issue? >> i don't know that everybody

fully understands the voter suppression that's going on. and anytime you have folks that are denied the right to vote, that is not what this country is based upon, and so we need to continue to educate people, to continue to tell folks what's gone on in georgia, montana and 16 other states in this country to suppress voting and certain people from going to the polls. much more robust conversation, by the way, and i think we get the bill passed. >> senator jon tester of montana, thank you so much for joining us this morning. >> thanks, senator. >> really appreciate it. >> my pleasure. president biden visited hard-hit kentucky to visit the damage from the weekend's devastating tornadoes. this as we are hearing more stories from survivors. nbc news national correspondent gabe gutierrez has the latest.

>> reporter: president biden face-to-face with towns nearly wiped off the map. >> the scale is almost beyond belief. when you look around here it's almost beyond belief. >> reporter: touring devastated communities in kentucky, victims of last week's historic tornadoes. >> the government will cover 100% of the cost for the first 30 days for all the emergency work. >> reporter: in hard-hit mayfield the national guard is on the ground cleaning up and buckling down for a massive recovery effort under way. the cost of the damage staggering. >> i wouldn't be surprised if we see numbers in the millions. >> reporter: the sheer power can be tough to comprehend but these twisters were especially remarkable. some of the debris was blown 130 miles away. people on social media now reuniting owners with personal belongings. this treasured family photo from kentucky was just found on a car windshield in indiana. >> in hours it was all gone.

>> reporter: for people like luis, the losses are crushing. on this street he lost three small businesses, a car dealership, a detail shop and a soccer training facility for children seen here before and after the storm. he has barely any insurance. how overwhelming does this all feel right now? >> we can't sleep, wake up at night and my wife is crying. the kids are sad because that was our place every day. >> reporter: for many the trauma runs deep. donna was driving home from out of state with her daughter called to tell her a tornado was barreling toward their kentucky house. >> all i could hear was her screaming for me and, mom, i don't know what to do and, mom, i'm so scared. i didn't know what to say. >> reporter: a helplessness no parent wants to feel. brianna survived. they tried to salvage what they could. how grateful are you to be

standing right here now? >> super grateful. i definitely thought i wasn't going to make it. >> it's hard to know she went through it by herself and all i could do was listen. >> reporter: you made it and she made it. >> mayfield will be okay. it's just going to be a long time. >> nbc's gabe gutierrez reporting for us from kentucky, really incredible accounts, the devastation is unimaginable. still ahead on "morning joe," the cdc issues a new covid warning just ahead of the holidays with cases and hospitalizations expected to skyrocket in the days leading up to christmas. what health officials are saying straight ahead. plus, experts sound the alarm about the impact of new 5g technology on passenger planes and what could lead to widespread cancellations and delays when it goes live next month. we'll have that reporting and my conversation with first lady dr. jill biden.

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welcome back to "morning joe." we turn now to the pandemic and the exploding number of new covid cases impacting everything from schools to the economy to sports and entertainment. nbc news correspondent sam brock has more on that. but first, here's nbc news national correspondent miguel almaguer. >> reporter: as medical centers already face a crushing wave of delta patients, new predictions for omicron are ominous. by the end of christmas week, the cdc now predicts the variants will fuel a massive spike in new infections, up to a 55% increase. 1.3 million cases in just seven days. the grimmest prediction the death toll could shoot up 71%.

the cdc says well over 15,000 lives could be lost in a single week. in philadelphia the health commissioner making this holiday plea. >> do not get together with other households for christmas, or if you do, keep those gatherings small. >> reporter: this morning our future looking more like our past as lines grow and vaccination sites are set to reopen. more schools are turning to remote learning. apple stores in three cities now shuttered because of a rise in infections. with more employers considering booster mandates, experts say omicron cases could double every two days here in the u.s. even though existing vaccines may offer less protection than they did against earlier strains, they still appear to fend off serious illness. >> if we didn't have these

tools, i would be telling you to really, really be worried, but we have tools, so get vaccinated, get boosted. >> reporter: but with tens of millions still unvaccinated and many past due for boosters, the most dangerous surge is still likely weeks away. this morning a somber reality as our country faces the prospect of another dark winter ahead. the nfl tackling covid safety again after a deluge of positive tests. washington and cleveland alone have 18 players on covid reserve with the browns losing their starting quarterback baker mayfield and head coach kevin stefanski who was vaccinated and boosted. >> it's not ideal, obviously. the hope is to get a full speed practice in tomorrow if we can, and we'll deal with tomorrow tomorrow. >> reporter: the league's chief medical officer explaining some of the new cases are linked to the omicron variant. >> we have a lot of people in

the nfl who have fairly low levels of antibodies, people we would consider vaccinated or protected. >> reporter: focusing on booster shots though any new rules would have to be approved by the league and the players association. >> i think it calls for modifications to our protocols in general, and we're working with the players association on that. >> reporter: the nflpa pushing back saying they decided to take away a critical weapon in our fight against the transmission of covid-19 despite our union's call for daily testing. >> they were begging the league back in september to go to daily testing for vaccinated players, just like they do for unvaccinated players. the nfl wanted to create strong incentives to get players to get vaccinated. >> reporter: now some changes under consideration, ramped up testing for vaccinated players, more education on booster shots, and returning asymptomatic players back to the field sooner. the covid surge also snaring the

nba. with superstars giannis sidelined and the brooklyn nets almost couldn't take the court after losing seven players to protocols. >> it's weird not having them in the locker room. >> reporter: so far playing defense to an unbeatable rival. and coming up, is there a new safety risk emerging for the airlines that has to do with 5g wireless services? something coming to the skies next year. >> i saw this on "the simpsons." >> officials are looking into whether it could cause a serious problem for pilots. those details are next on "morning joe."

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welcome back. airline passengers would surely welcome high-speed connections for phones and computers while in the skies. some pilots, not so much. as kerry sanders explains, there are concerns it could impact the controls in the cockpit. >> is that bad? >> reporter: allowing data to move faster than ever before, but just weeks before at&t and verizon's towers go live this morning a warning with crucial technology specifically altimeters, an instrument used in almost every laning and tells the plane's distance from the ground. imperative landing in low visibility or bad weather. the federal aviation administration with an airworthiness directive that reads altimeters cannot be relied upon if they experience

interference from wireless broad band operations. airline executives on capitol hill wednesday. >> i think if you were to ask us what our number one concern is here in the near terp it is the deployment of 5g. >> reporter: they warn flights could be canceled or forced to divert to airports without 5g interference, impacting thousands of flights a day and millions of passengers especially at big airports nationwide. the airline industry is urging cooperation to resolve the issue. >> we could absolutely solve this and live in a world where there is 5g available. >> reporter: they say 5g is already rolled out in 40 countries around the world without impacting aviation. at&t and verizon are committing to reduced 5g power levels near airports. does it make sense one hand of the government, the faa, and the other hand of the government, the fcc, didn't figure this out

in advance? >> they have not been able to get in the same room and reach consensus to this point. >> reporter: troubling to you? >> it's causing a degradation in airline safety, it is very troubling to me. coming up -- i'm wondering what was it that had that gut feeling when we called you and i asked, can you be on the list, can you support it, and you were so immediate. >> of course. of course, that's what mentoring is, supporting other women, right? so of course i would support you. >> know your value, rolling out a major new project with a little help from the first lady. my conversation with dr. jill biden next on "morning joe." as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i love liberty mutual. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪

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mentoring and helping women in all stages of their careers. on that front, this coming march i'll be chairing a summit that brings together generations of women for a forum in abu dhabi to mark international women's day 2022. the global event links the 30 under 30 and 50 over 50 lists where we highlight the we markable work of women rewriting the rules for success. the first lady talked about mentoring and offered her advice for women on paying it forward. dr. biden traveled to wisconsin. and i asked her about her work in getting to get more kids vaccinated. >> i've been traveling to as many states as i can get to into clinics and children's hospitals to get our little ones 5 and up

vaccinated. that was important to joe and me. we are all americans and when joe was elected, he said i will be a president for all americans and i said and i will be a first lady for all americans. when someone is sick or huring and i feel that right now our nation is hurting and in need of healing, that's one of the things i feel that i'm doing and look at joe in kentucky in mayfield and i'm headed to meet with the families who have lost someone in that tragic accident

in waukesha and those who need healing. i see that as part of my role. it doesn't matter to me whether they're republicans or democrats or whether they voted for joe or not. if someone is sick, you don't ask whether they're republican or democrat, you help, right? >> you've been exposed to politics for decades. a lot of people leave washington and they go, i'm never going back there again. it's hard. and i tombactually have to say s moved when your husband was running and you were -- i think we met up in iowa for an inview and i thought, my god, they're trying to go back. thank you. thank you for wanting to go back and wanting to serve. >> thank you. >> and i just wonder, i noticed recently you said being first lady is a little harder than you

expected the first year. can you explain what the challenges have been? is it just everything that's been going on with covid and the pandemic? >> well, actually -- first of all, let me say it has been my honor -- the honor of a lifetime to be your first lady. [ applause ] thank you. and it is 24/7. like i said, there's a lot of work to be done, i have loved every moment just visiting americans across this country hearing their challenges, hear what they need, what they want, and then take it back to the white house. i do feel as though i am a messenger from the white house, and so that's why it's a little bit harder. it is constant but i'm not dmrang. i'm saying it's just every day.

>> yeah. constant. it is 24/7. and just from my tiny perspective watching my dad serve when i was a little girl as national security -- >> you saw it. >> for four years out at 5:00 a.m. back at 11:00 p.m. that's when he wasn't traveling. yeah, it's -- but what i love about dr. jill and what a lot of us here who have read about her know she's a community college professor. and when she was serving as second lady, even for eight years as second lady, she taught. she taught community college and often could be incognito. the students wouldn't even know who she was. she was their teacher because that's a participate of her identity, which i respect so much. i think everybody in this room can really connect with that having your own identity, perhaps wife, mother, but also something else that you're passionate about. you were able to be incognito as the second lady. how is it going as first lady?

>> well, you know, i think, really, the beauty of being where i teach, you know, my students, the first day that we went in, of course, they had to go through security. that was new. >> that was a little awkward but okay. >> so my dean came in and said dr. biden's been teaching here since 2009, teaching english, teaching this course, and she also happens to be first lady but while she's here at nova, she is your english teacher. and i promise you that no one has said to me, except for the last day, said the words white house or first lady. >> really? >> and i love that they saw me as their english teacher. that's how they treated me, and i felt that was a gift that they gave to me. >> that is so cool.

you, i guess for a while, you were teaching virtually, correct? >> i did. last spring i taught virtually. >> how did that go? it must have been hard. >> it was hard. i had to go through training. i had to learn how to do it. and if any of you in here are teachers, you know one of the first things that you do is try to create community within your classroom. i mean, it's so important especially as a writing instructor. people are pouring out their hearts and souls on the page. i feel that i accomplished that and i loved my classes. i had one class of young boys who were fun and funny and then i had another class of women, mostly women, who were moms going back to school trying to get their degrees and so, of course, during the time that we were on zoom there would be these kids running across, or they were pushing them down so they wouldn't be on the screen.

it worked but this semester i wanted to be in the classroom. my students are developmental learners, so i teach that class. i think they need that hands-on help. they need that one-on-one. >> you are part of a mentoring program where you work as well as a community college professor. >> that's right. >> so you have, like, a million things you could be doing and yet you've chosen that. tell us why it was so important to you. >> when i started at nova in 2009, one thing they did not have was a women's mentoring program, so we first started it for women who were over 30 who were coming back to school who probably didn't know how to use technology. maybe they didn't know -- they didn't want to take math class. >> understood. completely. >> so we were trying to help them to graduation, to get that degree. but then so many women came to me and said, dr. b., you know, the younger women need it, too.

and so then i opened it up to everybody. so now we have a waiting list of people, women, who want to be mentored. thank god my faculty, our faculty, stepped up and i think we have 50 women who mentor other women. i love that. >> that's really, really cool. and 50 over 50, the list, which has become a list in the united states of america, we're going global. we have a lot to tell you today. submissions are open because women, we have so much to offer the next generation, and i think this list is a gift, as we pointed out, to the next generation of women and our grandchildren as well. and i'm wondering what was it that had that gut feeling when we called you and i asked, could you be on the list? can you support it? and you were so immediate. >> of course! of course! that's what mentoring is, supporting other women, be

right? so of course i would support you. [ applause ] >> i love the message that you have such a long runway. i don't know about you, but i was always in a rush, and i think it caused some problems for me in my life, being in a rush. you're always kind of stressed. and i do think this says to younger women and your sister in law val -- i interviewed her for one of the lists -- and she said life interrupts work, work interrupts life, let it happen, you have time. i thought, i never knew that. i did not know i had time, and i did not know things could interrupt each other. i did not know that. i thought you are supposed to do everything. it's almost like profound, really, for younger women. >> it is. and we do have time. i mean, look -- look around the room. we do have time. but i know that feeling because i think all my life, i mean,

gosh, i married joe, i continued grad school. i was raising children, i was working full time and god knows how many campaigns were in there every other couple years. but i think we figure it out. we have to. we have to, right? we have to make it work. and it's different for each one of us. we do it. i mean, we do it. >> you have a call to action for this group because this is a very special group. these women, they've made it, they've hung in there, they've come back, and they are reaching great success at incredible times in their lives over 50, over 60, over 70, and it's an incredible message. what is your call to action for us, the inaugural 50 over 50 list? >> i know you're going to think i'm going to say, just sit back, take it easy, balance your life, do exercise, but i'm not. i have a list. i have a list of things that i want you to do.

>> oh, boy. >> so if you're in education, even if you're not in your work place, i want to you offer scholarships for women to go back to school or continue their education. [ applause ] >> i love it. >> i want you all to work on child care. i mean, we are working on that in the federal government. it is necessary. it's not just a women's issue. it is a family issue. so that's another thing i would love to see you do. we need to create more diversity in the work place. so if you can work on that, we need to lift up women of color. [ applause ] i wish someone had helped me with financial literacy when i was a younger woman so that i knew how to plan for the future and knew what to do and what different things meant. and, lastly, and i know i always say that i'm not political, but i have to say this.

we have to teach younger women how important it is to be involved in public service because, you know, we have to get more women elected to congress. we need more women on the supreme court. >> yes! [ applause ] >> so look at where everything is going. we've got to work harder. we can't just sit back and think -- because i think so many women take it for granted, and i said this on the campaign trail, you cannot take it for granted that things aren't going to change. you have to continue to work as hard as you can. i know you're doing a million things. but, my god, this is so worthwhile to just if you look at where we're going for our girls, our daughters, our granddaughters, our sons and our grandsons. i want to thank you all. i want to thank you for what

you're doing and how hard you're working and that you will continue to mentor, because it's so important that we reach back and bring another woman along. and in just a few minutes we'll be ringing the opening bell at the nasdaq to mark the "forbes" know your value announcement. you can hear more on my new limited series podcast me kra straight up. the first episode launches today and you can listen wherever you get your podcasts. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage after a final break.

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hi there. i'm stephanie ruhle live at

msnbc headquarters here in new york city. it's thursday, december 16th, and we have all the facts you need to know this hour, so let's get smarter. after months of back and forth, calls with the president and closed door meetings, the build back better bill is getting put on the back burner, and voting rights now center stage. plus, what speaker pelosi said about lawmakers trading stocks that is turning heads this morning, and people who don't normally care about politics care a lot about this. and as residents down in the state of kentucky are picking up the pieces, more severe weather overnight throughout the midwest. thousands of people waking up this morning without power after tornadoes and hurricane-force winds. but we have got to start this morning with some very good news in the battle against the coronavirus. dr. anthony fauci saying covid boosters are enough to fight the fast-spreading omicron variant, and there is no need for a variant-specific booster. a new warning is highlighting how