you can play everyone out. would hillary clinton have gotten into politics, is a good example. would john mccain -- by the way, al gore could not have run in 2004. >> there might have been a constitutional question about that. i'm up against a hard break. as a former network guy, you get this. it's a pleasure to partner with you on this, jeff greenfield. catch more of jeff and i's conversation about some of these what-it's on the chuck todd cast. that does it for me. msnbc's coverage continues with katy tur and current history being made right now. we'll forgive you for that, chuck. good to be with you, i'm katy tur. the jury has reached a decision in the trial of kim potter, the former minneapolis police officer on trial for manslaughter. you'll recall potter shot and killed daunte wright during a traffic stop when wright jumped back into his car and potter

mistook her gun for her taser. the court's website says there is an outcome in the case, which is somewhat vague, but all indications are that it is a verdict. and we'll bring it to you live as soon as it's read in the courtroom. first, though, on this christmas eve eve, millions of families are making last-minute decisions as the omicron variant explodes and for some it is a wrenching choice. get together and risk spreading the virus to elderly relatives or kids too young to get vaccinated, or spend another christmas apart. for some the choice is either when all of the adults getting together are vaccinated and boosted, or families in which some or all people are not vaccinated, though, it's not hyperbole to say that the gathering could end in severe illness or look. wherever you live, there's line

after line of people waiting to be tested, trying to be safe and be sure they test negative. but rapid tests can be unreliable and pcr results could take days to come back. the testing apparatus set up by cities and states and the federal government is buckling under the strain. that much is clear. president biden, while taking some responsibility, says it is not a failure. >> you're a year into the presidency. empty shelves and no test kits in some places three days before christmas when it's so important. is that good enough? >> no, nothing has been good enough. but look, here we are. last christmas we were in a situation where we had significantly fewer people vaccinated. emergency rooms were filled. you had serious backups in hospitals that were causing great difficulties. we're in a situation now where we have 200 million people fully

vaccinated. i don't think it's a failure. i think you could argue that we should have known a year ago, six months ago, two months ago, a month ago. i've ordered a half a billion of the pills, 500 million pills -- i mean, excuse me, 500 million test kits that are going to be available to be sent to every home in america if everybody wants them. >> if everybody wants them, but omicron is exploding now and those tests will not start rolling out until january. the fear is in the meantime hospitals will buckle next in ways we did not see even at the worst of the worst of the pandemic. that is because even though it appears that omicron cases are milder, just the sheer number of people it will infect will result in more hospitalizations and more preventible deaths, overwhelmingly among the vaccinated. and it is so easily spread, what happens when doctors and nurses themselves have to quarantine? will there be enough health

workers to deal with the surge? joining me now is nbc news correspondent kathy park in new york city. nbc's jacob ward from california. and msnbc medical contributor and rheumatologist at nyu langone center dr. natalie azar. natalie, i saw a couple of covid testing vans that had no lines to speak of. is it just a matter of where you are in the city, with all the lines we're seeing? >> right, because not too far from probably where you were when you saw no line, behind me the line has been holding steady in front of this med-right location. since 6:00 this morning people have been lining up to get a covid test. like i said, it hasn't gotten much shorter. this seems to be the theme we've been following for days now. people waiting hours in line to

get a covid test, waiting in the cold. a lot of these folks have told me they just want to be sure that they are covid-free before they meet up with family members this holiday weekend. some are showing symptoms, and that's why they're out here as well. some have been exposed. so you have a mixed bag of patients waiting to get that covid test. but we do have some good news, katy. help has arrived here in new york where covid infections are soaring. just yesterday alone we set another record, 28,000 infections. but we have different locations offering free covid tests, at-home covid tests, thousands of covid tests, in fact. mayor bill de blasio pledged by the end of this week they'll have 112 covid testing sites they'll allow folks to stop by at. the federal government as well stepping in. in queens there are six

different locations as well offering both tests and vaccinations. so people here in new york, we've obviously been following a lot of the headlines here. the infection continue to soar. they're getting a lot more testing options, but like i said, in the meantime, though, we're still seeing these lines throughout the city. it depends on where you go, there. there are other urgent care location dealing with staffing issues as well. so it's all kind of coming to a head right around the holiday season. and katy, i do want to mention, we've been kind of following whether or not new year's eve celebrations will be moving forward this year. and we just found out that it is still going on as planned. but it will be much more scaled back. we are told that typically it has about 58,000 people in attendance. that number is now going to be about 15,000 people. they will require full vaccinations for all of the

revellers who decide to come out, and the entry time will be much later in the afternoon so folks won't be allowed to enter the times square area until 3:00 if they plan on watching the ball drop. but obviously it's an iconic event, and the mayor did say yesterday that they wanted to move forward. >> good news that they're going to have it and good news that they're going to try to make it work. it's not getting canceled altogether like it was last year. jake, the testing is such a big issue and something the biden administration promised from the get-go. they were going to get testing up to speed and yet it hasn't been up to speed, maybe because vaccinations were ongoing. and it seems like the waves were under control. that being said, it's still not there. so what's going on with these at-home tests, why can you get them all over the world in bulk and you can't get them here? >> the distinction here, katy, is the difference between a

nationalized health care system and one based on the pursuit of profit. we have a system that was supposed to be built around market demand, right? as you mentioned, when we got focused on vaccinations, then suddenly testing capacity went down. but first, let me just show you the benchmark against which experts say we should be comparing ourselves. i'm going to show you a couple of numbers here. at the beginning of the pandemic, experts basically said we are going to need 20 million daily tests in order to remobilize the economy, that's about a sixth of the nation on a daily basis. but even at the very peak of testing, when we were flat out, a year ago, we only got to 2.2 million a day. right now we're looking at an average of about 1.5 million a day, just a small fraction of that benchmark number. and so how are we going to fill that gap? some people are hoping the 11 makers of at-home tests plus private providers of lab tests might be able to fill the gap. but they are also flat out right now. we spoke to the operations manager of one such company

yesterday. here is what he had to say about the flood they are seeing. >> two, three weeks ago across the board, we were collecting about 25, 30 covid tests per day. today we finished our day with 20,000 samples collected across the nation. we're seeing sampling increases of 300% in florida, texas seeing 400%, southern california seeing 350% increases from last week alone. so definitely seeing a big increase in sample volume. >> so what we're seeing here, katy, is definitely a sort of structural failure, right? if you have people lining up right now, that is market demand without the adequate supply to meet it. the free market, the invisible hand, is not going to take care of this. one public health expert said this should be compared to the kind of preparations one makes in a military setting. we spend a lot of money on the military here in this country, in part because we keep emergency stuff at the ready.

we fill hangars with equipment that we may hopefully never use in our lifetime and have people maintaining that, and having it ready at all times. it's that sort of thing we're looking at. remember that 20-million-person-a-day benchmark we were talking about? that costs $20 million a day. the market doesn't want to pay for that unless someone is going to pay them back. what we're talking about is the need for an ongoing capacity, not just for this crisis we're in right now but for the next variant, because not all americans are getting vaccinated, we'll keep seeing variants. we'll need that kind of capacity and it's clear it's not possible to make money off it in the way that will keep the supply the way we're used to. >> dr. natalie azar, when we look at what's going to be happening at hospitals, as just the sheer number of people are catching this variant, what are the hospitals going to have at hand to combat this? i know the white house is

sending extra military officials or military members to help staff these sites. but what about therapeutics and pills? the fda just approved two of them. >> i mean, between treatments and personnel, katy, there are going to be a lot of hospital systems that are really, really going to be struggling, you know, this season, in the next couple of weeks, not just because of covid infections but of course because of flu and other respiratory infections. the timing could not have been worse for this. like vaccination rates, it's about us a patchwork around the country in terms of how ready hospital systems are. as you can well imagine, certain hospitals in more urban environments have been preparing for the potential for surge and, you know, have a surge capacity, have a whole protocol for when that will happen. as the president pointed out in his address two days ago, you know, in terms of equipment and ppe and things like that, i think we're certainly better off

than we are in terms of testing. regarding therapeutics, it is a big, big deal. one of the medicine that is used in the hospital, it's a medicine that works similarly to dexamethasone. it treats the hyperinflammatory reaction in severe sick covid-19 patients. there's been a national shortage of that for months. with regard to the new antivirus, we'll see a real bottleneck, especially for the pfizer one that is by far the superior one, more of the gangbuster, appears to probably have a better sort of big picture safety profile and certainly has dramatically improved or better efficacy than the merck pill. but it's really just that the demand is going to far exceed supply, at least for the foreseeable months. so nobody out there should be relying on that. if you get infected, especially if you haven't been vaccinated. >> get vaccinated and then get boosted when you can.

what about how contagious this is? i know we're saying it's more contagious than the other strains. but does that mean it's more contagious in all settings? because when i walk outside now, and maybe partially this is because it's cold and the mask keeps your face warm, but outside i would say 80% of people that i'm coming across at rockefeller center are wearing masks. is it more contagious outside as well? >> no. i mean, it has the same degree of transmissibility no matter where it is. it's just that all variants are going to be less transmissible outside, because the air is going to suspend the particles, the little viral particles, and carry them away. indoors is the issue because the particles have nowhere to go and hang out in the room, which is the whole concept behind airborne transmission and why masking indoors is so important. if you're in a crowded area

outdoors, for example the new year's eve celebration as kathy was mentioning, i'm sure they're going to mandate masks, because if you're screaming loudly next to someone, you know, there's a higher likelihood you'll be infected. the variant doesn't necessarily get through -- travel through the air faster or get through a mask any more easily. it really is once it's in the airway that we think it replicates better and more efficiently and hence that's the reason for its increased transmissibility. >> so if you're outside, wearing a mask is not necessarily necessary. >> right. >> jake ward and kathy park, thank you guys very much and happy holidays to you. meantime, the supreme court says it will hear arguments in a challenge to president biden's vaccine mandates for private employers and health workers. i'm joined by nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. pete, remind us, if you will, about these mandates and how

this has played out in court so far. >> the first one was imposed by osha, saying that any employer with at least a hundred workers has to mandate masks or testing. the states and the businesses that oppose it asked the supreme court to take the case. and in the meantime to shut it down again while the court considers it. so the court did agree to hear this. but it did not agree to shut it down. so the osha requirement is still in effect. and the court will hear this on an extremely fast schedule, agreeing to hear it on january 7th, a friday, when they weren't even scheduled to be in the courtroom. they weren't scheduled to come back until the following week. so it's very, very fast work here, almost unprecedented, to move this fast on a case. the second one involves anyone who treats medicare or medicaid patients, they are required to be vaccinated. the federal government said it was important to keep the health care workers from spreading the vaccine to vulnerable

populations. and the results have been mixed. in half the states, it's blocked by an appeals court ruling, but it's in effect in the other half. so each applied to the supreme court to get those rulings overturned. again, the supreme court isn't disturbing those lower court holdings, so the enforcement status remains the same, and it too will be argued on january 7th. >> pete williams, pete, thank you very much. we're following breaking news out of minnesota this afternoon where the jury has reached what is being called a trial outcome in the case of former police officer kim potter. we're going to go there live to that courtroom when the decision, if it is a decision, is read. also ahead, ready for a rematch. what president biden says about running against donald trump again. and speaking of former president trump, he's now petitioning the supreme court to block congress from getting his records. will the court take the case? if you wanna look fresh, fresh. you gotta eat fresh. eat fresh. that's why subway bought time in my shampoo ad.

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will he or won't he? president biden gave abc news some insight into his 2024 thinking. >> i'm a great respecter of fate. fate has intervened in my life many, many times. if i'm in the health i'm in now, i'm in good health, then in fact i would run again. >> and if that means a rematch against donald trump? >> you're trying to tempt me

now. sure. why would i not run against donald trump if he were the nominee? that would increase the prospect of running. >> joining me now from the white house is nbc news correspondent josh lederman. so josh, he's going to run again, even wants to more if donald trump runs. >> reporter: yeah, that's exactly right. you know, the white house says that president biden has been fairly consistent on this, saying he always has planned to run again unless of course there was some reason not to. but it was particularly interesting there, katy, to hear him talk about how president trump running again would sort of goad biden into running again, which makes sense on one hand, he did defeat the former president in the election and a lot of democrats feel that joe biden is the only democrat who was running who could have actually defeated the former president, trump. but i think we all know who the elephant in the room here is in this conversation. it's vice president kamala harris. and all of these questions that have been swirling in recent

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we are following breaking news out of minnesota this afternoon where a verdict has

been reached in the trial of former police officer kim potter. at least we think it's a verdict. we expect that verdict, if it is a verdict, to be read in court at any moment. potter faces manslaughter charges in the fatal shooting of 20-year-old daunte wright during a traffic stop in brooklyn center in april. she testified that she meant to pull her taser but accidentally grabbed her gun instead. the jury has been sequestered during deliberations so all eyes were on that court for some sort of outcome ahead of the christmas holiday. joining me now is nbc news correspondent shaquille brewster, katie phang joins us as well as. shaq, can we take "outcome" to mean verdict? >> we believe it will be a verdict but the court is saying

it is an outcome. and this outcome has come as a result of 27 1/2 hours that the jury has been away deliberating since they first received the case on monday. remember, this has been, at least in the past day and a half, a pretty quiet jury. they have not released any questions yesterday. we do know that they were deliberating for about nine hours. but over the course of their entire deliberations, they did submit three questions. one of the questions signaled that they may have been struggling to reach a consensus. >> shaq, i'm so sorry, the judge has just walked into the courtroom and she's speaking. we'll listen.

shaq, i may have jumped the gun a bit, they're going to bring in the jury. i'm sorry, continue with what you were saying. >> no problem at all, and please feel free to stop me once the jury gets in. we do know over the course of the deliberations, three questions have been asked. one of the questions signaled they were struggling to come to some sort of consensus, asking the jury -- or excuse me, the judge, for context on how long they should go and what they should do if they cannot reach consensus. in another question at another time, they asked for more access to kim potter's firearm, something the prosecution asked them to do. this entire case boiled down to the differences between a gun and a firearm, arguing that kim potter, a 26-year veteran of the police force, should have known the difference and created a risk by not knowing the difference between those two

devices at the time she shot and killed daunte wright. the defense said daunte wright's death was his own fault, that he created the environment for his own risk. we'll see what the jury decided. >> we just saw kim potter and her attorney stand, which we presume means the jury has arrived. the judge is about to speak. >> will the deputy please retrieve the verdict forms and provide it to me for review. would ms. potter please rise. i'm now going to read your verdicts as it will appear in

the permanent court record of hennepin county. in the matter of state of minnesota versus kimberly potter court file number 27 cr 217490, we the jury on the charge of manslaughter in the first degree, while committing a misdemeanor on our about april 11, 2021, in hennepin county, state of minnesota, find the defendant guilty. and the verdict was agreed to at the hour of 11:40 a.m. and signed by the jury person on 12/23/21. the verdict on count 2 is, we the jury on the charge of manslaughter in the second degree, culpable negligence, on or about april 11, 2021, in

hennepin county, state of minnesota, find the defendant guilty. and that verdict was agreed to at 10:30 a.m. on 12/21/21. members of the jury, is this your true and correct verdict, so say you one and so say you all? >> yes. >> okay, you may be seated. i am now going to poll the jury. juror number 2, is this your true and correct verdict? >> it is. >> juror number 6, is this your true and correct verdict? >> yes, it is. >> juror number 7, is this your true and correct verdict? >> yes, it is. >> juror number 13, is this your true and correct verdict?

excuse me. juror 11. and juror 17, is this your true and correct verdict? >> yes. >> juror number 19, is this your true and correct verdict? >> yes. >> juror number 21, is this your true and correct verdict? >> yes. >> juror number 22, is this your true and correct verdict? >> yes. >> juror number 26, is this your true and correct verdict? >> yes. >> juror number 40, is this your true and correct verdict? >> yes. >> juror number 48, is this your true and correct verdict? >> yes. >> and juror number 55, is this your true and correct verdict? >> yes, it is. >> members of the jury, when you first came into the courtroom, i told you that jurors are the

heroes of our judicial system. well, the 12 of you are our heroes in this case. you might remember that there was a question on the questionnaire that asked whether you wanted to be on this jury. you were to check yes, no, or maybe. a number of you checked no or not sure. and a few of you checked all three. but when i asked each of you if you would be willing to serve if the parties selected you as a juror, you all said yes. you said yes even though we are in a pandemic with omicron spreading in our community. you said yes even though you had concerns about serving, given the nature of the case. you said yes even though you

knew you would be sequestered during deliberations and away from your loved ones. and you said yes even though there was a chance that this case could have lasted past christmas. you were willing to sacrifice much because you believed in our justice system. and then you went into deliberations and each of you brought with you your common sense, individual perceptions, and life experiences. and you came to an agreement on the verdicts. you did your duty. i am so proud of you. you should be proud of yourselves. without civic minded citizens like you, our system of justice could not function. thank you for your service.

thank you for your sacrifices. i wish you all a wonderful holiday season and may the peace and beauty of the season be yours throughout the year. at this time i would like you to go into your waiting courtroom and i'll be in in just a moment. i would like to thank you personally and to answer any questions that you have. okay? >> just to repeat what we saw there, breaking news, kim potter, the brooklyn center police officer who killed daunte wright during a traffic stop, was found guilty of both counts,

guilty of first degree manslaughter and guilty of second degree manslaughter. she was notably unemotional as the verdict was read. remember, there was talk about what she said in the moments after shooting daunte wright, "i'm going to prison, i'm going to prison." she knew this was an outcome possibility for her. and this is what happened. she did make the sign of the cross at one point. but again, notably not emotional as those verdicts were read. you know, i've spoken to a lot of on-air legal analysts about this, and one notable one said that he just did not think that she was going to be found guilty, that the prosecution did not prove their case. so this could be a bit of a surprise to some people out there. let's bring in kristen gibbons feden who is back with us. what did you think of this

outcome? >> you know, i thought the prosecution put on a good case. it was a tough case. it was a case where there was a mistake. there was no indication that officer potter intended to kill daunte wright. but it was a mistake that took a young man's life. and when you're talking about an officer who is on the force longer than mr. wright was alive, and then you look at her experience and her training, i do think this was a verdict that was commensurate with the facts. for the first degree charge, the jury needed to find that kim potter made a conscious or intentional act regarding the handling of her gun. and the prosecution put in a lot of evidence specifically through their experts that that conscious or intentional act was made. and i think what they did was, when they talked about when she put her hand on the weapon, which was on the opposite side,

the taser is on one side, the gun is on the other, one has a snap, one doesn't, the gun is twice as heavy as a taser. when you go through those elements individually, and then all together, that is the intent that is necessary for this particular charge. >> and listen, they did ask, the jury did ask the judge to hold the gun, to hold the gun, they wanted to see what the gun felt like versus what -- presumably, what the taser felt like. david, forgive me, i pseudo quoted you a minute ago, talking about how you did expect this to be the outcome because you didn't believe the prosecution had proven their case. what do you think of what you just saw? >> i think this is an earth-shattering verdict. in terms of what it's going to mean for cases involving police officers moving forward, this is absolutely a game changer. i stick by my original analysis. but keep this in mind.

juries fail to strictly follow the law all the time. the state spoke out of both sides of its mouth between derek chauvin's trial and this trial where the use of force experts they presented disagreed. however, and i'll cling to this, i was on the air with chuck todd i believe when kim potter testified. her testimony was so offensive and so ridiculous that i found myself thinking, despite what i know about the law, if i was on this jury, it would change my mind, what she had to say. the way their questions came back, i think that's part of what happened back there in that jury room because they went from saying they were deadlocked to finding her guilty on all counts. that's a major victory for those of us who care about police reform. >> it was very surprising. let's go back in the courtroom, they're talking about whether she'll be taken to jail while awaiting sentencing. >> other facts that didn't come to light during the trial that are important also about kim pot and her about this case. so i respectfully request that you release her on her $100,000

bail and that will make it easier to do the presentence report. we'll get people sending letters on her behalf. and i would ask for a sentencing sometime -- if you release her, sometime -- i start a trial january 20th, should be over by february 20th, i hope. sometime in late february. and i ask that she -- she's got a $100,000 bail, judge. she's not going to commit another crime. she's not going anywhere. thank you. >> thank you, mr. frank. >> your honor, we do request defendant be taken into custody. the convictions here are for manslaughter in the first degree, manslaughter in the second degree, based on the death of daunte wright, a young man. in other words, it's a case that involves a death.

they are very serious charges. it is customary for defendants to be taken into custody upon a guilty verdict at those level of crimes. we don't think this case should be different. your honor, we've also learned the defendant is not living in the state. i don't know if that was known and provided for in the original conditions of release. but it presents obviously an aggravating factor for allowing her to remain out of custody. so we are requesting that the state remand her into custody and withdraw any bail or conditions of release. your honor, we do have the blakely issue to resolve and we would ask for direction from the court on whether we should submit written arguments or proposed findings or how the court wants to address that. we could have those findings of course for the actual sentencing hearing. we would request a psi as well.

>> both of those crimes, there was no intent, no criminal intent. it's reckless and culpable negligence. many times, in my career, defendants convicted of culpable negligence, i don't think they had a reckless one, but it's an unintentional crime by somebody with a clear record. we have a strong basis for this departure. i ask the court to release her on bail. >> the presumptive sentences in this case are commenced, and i am going to require that she be taken into custody and held without bail. and i recognize your arguments, but i cannot treat this case any

differently than any other case. so i think we should probably set briefing deadlines. i know that the defense would like to make a written motion for a dispositional departure. and the state has the argument concerning aggravating blakely factors that we should be briefing. how much time does the defense need to put in their motion for dispositional departure? >> at least one month. we're backed up, both of us are backed up on trials right now. i start one on the 20th as well. >> okay. >> at least one month, the end of january preferably. >> okay. pick a date in january, and i'll give the state what they need to respond. >> how about january 31st?

>> that's a monday. >> okay. and how long would the state like to respond to the motion, the sentencing motion? >> could we have two weeks, your honor? >> you may, and that day would be, zack? >> february 14th. >> okay. and mr. frank, i think that the aggravating factors, we do the blakely on a unitary basis so no further evidence would be required, correct? >> that's correct, your honor. >> so could you submit your brief on the aggravating factors, how much time do you need on that? >> two weeks, your honor. >> okay. and the defense would need -- okay. and mr. kramer, could you tell them what the dates are.

>> we can do them all on the 31st. the submission for the defense. >> okay. do you want to do them simultaneously on the 31st? >> that's fine, your honor. >> okay. all right. so you want sentencing pushed back to february? because both of you -- late february. all right. let's pick a date. >> we could do any time in the morning on february 23rd. >> i know i'm in trial on the 20th too, all these cases, we're backed up. if we can make it the weekend,

that would be great. >> that would push us to the first week of march. how about 9:00 a.m. on march 1? >> what day of the week? >> that's a tuesday. >> your honor, the state's not available that week. >> okay. >> march 8th at 9:00 a.m.? >> i'm sorry. >> march 8th at 9:00 a.m.? >> we all have a state trial that week. we could move it up a week in february, would be better. >> so the first week of march, mr. frank? >> okay, again, just to repeat what we are seeing, kim potter has been found guilty on manslaughter in the first degree, manslaughter in the second degree. her lawyers were arguing that she should be released until she is sentenced, they said she has deep roots in the community, that she's a catholic, that this was a mistake, it was not

criminal, even though she was found guilty, that she's not a flight risk, she's going to stick around, $100,000 bail, and the judge said, hey, listen, we can't do that because i can't treat this any differently than any other case. she needs to be remanded into custody right now. that's what's happening. now they're arguing about when the next hearing will be, the sentencing hearing -- not arguing, they're discussing it. again, though, this is quite a surprising decision for some legal analysts who had been watching this case closely including our own david henderson who we were just speaking to a moment ago. i also want to bring in katie phang, another one of our legal analysts. katie, talk to me about when you saw here and the news that she was found guilty on both counts and also remanded into custody immediately. >> so katy, what we take away from this is, we can't really read the tea leaves from the questions that come from the

jurors. a couple of days ago, as shaq told us, one of the limited questions that came from the jury was, what happens if we cannot reach a consensus and a unanimous decision as is required in criminal cases? there were 12 jurors that we know they had to reach a unanimous verdict and clearly they eventually got there. but because that have question, there was a concern that perhaps this jury was not going to be able to reach a verdict and we were going to be looking at a hung jury which meant that officer potter could have been retried. but in light what have we've seen today and heard, she's been remanded into custody. she will be sentenced, it sounds like, at some point late february, maybe beginning of march, which means that in the meantime, she is looking at up to 15 years in state prison on count 1, up to ten years on count 2. the state has indicated they'll be seeking an aggravating factor sentencing, the fact that she, quote, abused a position of authority, the fact that she created danger to the people in

the public because she fired her weapon, daunte wright's vehicle went careening out of control and could have injured other people. obviously the defense will present mitigating factors to try to convince the court, katy, that that type of sentencing shouldn't imposed on kim potter. we do know in minnesota she's probably looking at anywhere between 7 to 9 years in prison. she obviously doesn't have a prior record. what was startling is for a that i am potter doesn't even live in minnesota anymore, which was news to the prosecution, a suggestion perhaps it was not known under bail conditions. when you are released on bail, i we're curies whether or not the prosecution had just found this out and let the defense know the bonds people and probation and parole that potter wasn't even

living in the jurisdiction as she's been going to trial. >> kristin, let's talk about the prosecution here in the state. this is a second big win for the state in a high-profile case such as this. second big win for one of the prosecutors she was the prosecutor owes in the derek chauvin trial. what does that mean for policing in the state of minnesota. i think the jury's verdict, as well as the keep in mind these cases were not generally charged initially. even in this particular case, remember only second-degree manslaughter was charged under the a.g. came in and add the the first-degree manslaughter

charge. we're seeing a tie for the gubernatorial office actually looking to police reform, but the jury's decision tells us that society is also looking for that type of police reform as well. what i think both of those things tell us is police reform is on the horizon. what about sentencing, david. no manslaughter in the sect drear it's a max of ten years in prison. she's found guilty for both. >> i think she's looking at the range of 7 to 9 years. what is difficult to predict here is how the judge will weigh the aggravating factors in terms of what we call an upwood sentencing departure, and in that regard, i think she's

likely to get a higher sentence, and she frankly has no one to blame than herself. she essentially testified that dew pointe wright was racially profile. she was a training officer. after she hot and killed daunte, not only did he put other people at risk, but she collapsed lamenting over the consequences for her, and she completely failed to render eight you just testified you've been an over for over 20 years, you wanted tore a first responder, and at a time when someone needed the help the most, you didn't even try. for all you knew, he might have been saved, and not monopolized the two officers' attention who turned their attention to you. when you put those things into

context, it's going to lead to an upward sentencing departure. >> i know she says she didn't remember saying these things and didn't know why she would, but the prosecution broad up what she said after the shooting that i'm going to prison, i'm going to prison, i'm going to prison. how heavily do you imagine that weighed on the jury? >> i think that the jury has to presume, when somebody in the throes of an emotional moment, we had this we call it a -- you can't have this calculated idea of not saying something true. for her to immediately blurt out, i'm going to prison, kind of like david said, it could be spun either way, she could be

looking out in a selfish way, she knew she would have this horrible thing happen to her, as we've seen with officers being convicted for their wrongful acts, but then if you're the defense, you could spin it and say, she knew and she lamented the fact this was mapping and she was immediately remorseful and regretting the fact that this had occurred. because she said it right then and there, it's exactly what she was feeling in the moment. >> this was also in the heat of protests against police officers. these in the moments after derek chauvin, which is a fraught and intense atmosphere at that time, katie. i mean, as you were saying, you could construe it both ways, this is her blurting out she knew she made a mistake in that moment as well.

both sides conceded it was an accident, but accidents can also be a crime. that's exactly what the jury eventually came to. the idea that even though it's an accident. if you meet the elements of the statutory crimes, you will be found guilty remember, this makeup of this jury, nine of them were white. to the idea there's police reform, a more progressive concept where people -- we can find people guilty even if they look like this, the two prosecutors in the kim pot are trial, they were also prosecutors in the derek chauvin trial.

>> aaron eldridge and mike franks, assistant district attorneys from minnesota. more reaction from minneapolis after a very quick break. don't go anywhere.

good afternoon, i'm katy tur back with you for another hour. moments ago, a jury found former police officer kim potter guilty of all charges in th