♪♪ well, this is it. this is where it all happened. imagine that, my garage door made history. this is where the big press conference took place.

i don't even know how to explain 2020. it was a crazy, crazy year. >> bad things happen in philadelphia. bad things. >> former vice president joe biden to become the 46th president of the united states. >> i had no idea what we would be in for. >> i thought it was a fake. i thought my friends were messing with me. >> a philadelphia landscaping company has been thrust into the national spotlight. >> the entire thing was supposed to be anonymous. >> just put me in shock to see my name on the president's twitter. we probably got thousands of calls. >> you have 950 new messages. >> we had a lot of haters. >> i remember asking, did we make a mistake? there were just way too many

trees. here's the other thing, and i think we'll discuss this with the board when we have the zoom. my name's marie siravo. i'm 65 and i'm the president of four seasons total landscaping in northeast philadelphia. we go grounds maintenance and irrigation, seeding, flowers, snow removal. it's kind of boring. >> shawn, ron's on the phone. >> i think the most challenging part of starting the business and being in business is being woman-owned. nobody took you serious. you're on the property. you have cameras. >> yeah. >> our maintenance men on other properties, they connect with us. we help them. they help us. if i had a dollar for every time i got asked, did i have a husband? i have a wonderful husband. he just had his business and i

had mine. this is my life. other than my family, this is my entire life. we want to make sure that if we do purchase this, it's meeting our needs and that we don't now also need another building. i have three boys. michael's the youngest. mike took on the general manager role. i had to let go a little bit, because i want my hands in everything. >> how many people get the chance to go to work every day with their mother? >> the first thing we do is fix everything with food. this is part of our italian culture. >> some days are, like, phenomenal. and then some days she can't figure out how to use the printer and it's frustrating. >> mike! i need some help. we have some days where our horns lock, and he forgets i'm still his boss, but i try not to use that card, because i need him to learn everything that's in my head. >> i started from the very bottom, being a laborer,

learning everything to basically working underneath the supervisor and shadowing him. so i pretty much worked from the ground up to where i am now. you get it? ground up? other than that, like, that's not scheduled work, so -- >> basically, mike and shawn, they run the daily operations. >> i really do depend on mike. we're partners with his mother in this business. >> shawn and i met when were we in college and he was an upper classman. i looked up to him. he was almost like a big brother to me. >> mike and i have been through a lot together, both personally and professionally. we're both in recovery, which is a big thing we have in common. >> if you can do it with somebody else who has the same goals as you do, to become a better person on a daily basis, it makes it easier. >> they're like two old souls. they work together so well. i know they both have the company's best interest at heart. sometimes it takes a little, you

know, i just got to let him be him and back off, and he comes around. so, is this what people want to hear about in this documentary? >> in addition to nevada, the race for the white house has not been called for pennsylvania. >> confusing pa spa going to be. >> president trump is still leading in that case by about 108,000 votes. >> the days after the election, there wasn't a clear winner and it just left everybody worried and stressed. >> philadelphia became kind of ground zero for the election. crowds were gathering outside. you had trump supporters and biden supporters facing off against each other. >> people were dressing up as the constitution, mailboxes, holding signs saying we the people. progressives, conservative americans, in one place, outside the philly convention center.

trump's legal team p shows up at the philadelphia convention center. pam goes to address the crowd, and the count every votes protest right across the street turns up the music really, really loud. so you cannot hear a word that pam says because it's complete overwhelmed by the sounds of beyonce. >> everybody was fighting at each other. every post and tweet and instagram you saw, people were arguing it just was very uneasy. and then the phone call. >> my phone rang around 8:45 a.m. i was in a men's bible study in doylestown, pennsylvania. >> hello. >> so i didn't answer. then my phone immediately rang again. so i excused myself and walked outside. and it was a trump staffer. they were asking if we would be

amenable to them having a conference at four seasons total landscaping. i just thought -- why not? >> by about 9:45, the deal was sealed. it's just insane. out of all places, it's here. >> we're a landscaping company. we're experts in irrigation, seeding, planting, not press conferences. with downy infusions, let the scent set the mood. feel the difference with downy. ♪ [text alert] ♪ son of a— —beth? if it's “i thought we said no gifts” season, it's walgreens season. at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner with access to financial advice, tools and a personalized plan

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i have dreamt at performing in redshore city since i was a little kid. here she is the star of our show. [ gasps ]

there's nothing rosita can't do. i can't do this. she's afraid. can i try? no, no, no, porsha wait! ♪ this girl is on fire ♪ this is probably for the best. but i wrote this part for you. time to show the world what you're really made of. ♪ she's walking on fire ♪ suddenly, this tweet comes through from donald trump. lawyers press conference at four seasons philadelphia, 11:00 a.m. i sprang into action, grabbed my stuff, made calls to the editor. >> i jump in my car and go down to the four seasons hotel in downtown philadelphia. >> i think i was at the door when the second tweet came through. four seasons landscaping, philadelphia. i think my initial reaction was just one of utter confusion. >> it's like, of course it's there, there's landscaping

there. oh, yeah, it's the four seasons hotel, the entrance area with the landscaping. >> my assumption was that he mushed the keypad somehow and accidentally typed the word landscaping. >> i got a phone call from the four seasons hotel. they said, are they coming to you or are they coming to me? >> a third tweet comes in, and it says big press conference this philadelphia, four seasons total landscaping. why would the president's lawyers hold a press conference at a landscaping company? >> this story starts with donald trump tweeting that there would be a press conference on saturday morning at the four seasons in philadelphia. no, not the hotel. but four seasons total landscaping. it remains unclear if the trump campaign booked the whole thing in error or not. >> why did you pick this place? it was just a head skravper. this is just the beginning of how surreal this event was. it's not prominent, why is it here?

i mean, you had more questions than you could possibly have answered. >> with trump, it was always difficult to get answers about the truth. sometimes it was because people didn't know the answers. often it was because they were lying. i spent weeks and weeks interviewing everybody i could and hitting dead end after dead end after dead end. nobody really knew how they ended up at a landscaping place in a part of town that, you know, normally is not where campaigns host these things. i set out to try and answer what i thought was a simple question. what the hell had happened? and the longer i dug into it, the crazier and crazier it was. >> mistake or not, they held the press conference at the loading dock of the landscaper. here's what it looked like. that's quite an image. projects power. >> obviously, they screwed up. they called the wrong place and thought, well, let's just go with it.

>> we at an industrial trip with a crematorium across the street and an adult video and bookstore up the street. >> there was a level of excitement among our staff that we would be hosting the president's campaign staff here. but that was quickly followed by dread. >> an obvious screwup in booking, but they all played along, pretended that was the master plan. >> there are two different theories, really, that i had and other people had as well. one, i thought that maybe they had, someone thought they could book the four seasons hotel. someone on the campaign made the president think that it was a possibility that it would be held there and that once he tweeted that, they googled around and found that the closest thing called four seasons to the four seasons philadelphia happened to be this landscaping place. the other theory that i have is it was just this perfect storm

of minor screwups from various people at various levels of the campaign, and somehow maybe through a connection or an accident, they ended up here. >> i met the campaign staff here at about 9:30. it was a pretty quick setup, obviously, you saw what was on tv. i'm pretty proud of the space that we were able to curate in such a small amount of time. i mean, it was a landscape construction yard. >> normally, you might have police outside on the perimeter, but it was just private security. and they asked us to put our news organization down on a clipboard, and then they would call us in. and they made us look like it might be exclusive, like we might not all get called in. every time they called a news organization, the six to eight trump supporters would boo. >> we'd request that the republican -- >> boo!

>> i think the biggest part for me was seeing giuliani pull up in two black suburbans. i thought it was dreaming. nobody famous has ever been here. and it was almost in slow motion, like, him walking into the office. >> i actually wasn't going to come here. and i got a phone call from my son anthony and he said, mom, this is bigger than we think. and he sends me a picture while thyme talking to him and rudy's sitting at my desk and the plaque in front of my desk says "boss lady." i looked at my husband we got to get over there. >> we demand a fair election. >> i demand you shut up! >> we demand a fair election! we demand a fair election! >> there was a crowd of people, both biden and trump supporters were there. they were going back and forth with each other. >> go home! >> and then the cops showed up and the entire front road was shut down.

and that's when it kind of got with very nerve-racking for me. >> it was just overwhelming, so i just looked around. i looked at everybody. i tried to figure out who everybody was. the press conference was about to start. i stood on top of a trailer so i could see, and i just watched. >> in the final weeks of the trump campaign, officials told me that keeping rudy busy became like a full-time job. they had to devise places to send him so he wasn't running wild, creating whack a mole problems for them. >> rudy giuliani is undermining confidence in the american election system and therefore undermining our national security. >> rudy giuliani was considered to be a great force of law and order. he was one of the heroes of 9/11. >> and i think that's part of why it was so disturbing to watch him unravel and watch him kind of debase himself in

support of this guy who they thought that he was better than. >> by the way, do you have any idea that the state department -- >> do you know the state department. >> shut up, moron. >> chris, chris. >> you don't know what you're talking about, idiot. >> he was kind of a mess. but he was always around and he was always loil and that was the only thing that really seemed to matter to the president. >> he is a great guy. he knows it's a witch hunt. that's what he knows. he's seen a lot of them. >> rudy followed his press coverage very closely and he was very aware of what the view of him was in mainstream circles. >> he was nothing but respectful to us when he was here. shook all of our hands, took pictures with us, greeted all the cops. but you know, i think going on tv, i don't know if, you know, something changes. >> he once told me my view of my legacy is, quote, eff it. >> wow, what a beautiful day.

thank you for coming. so, i'm here on behalf of the trump campaign as an attorney for the president, to describe to you the first part of a situation that is extremely, extremely troubling. >> so rudy giuliani comes out and launches into this speech about how the election was stolen, and how there are very grave allegations of fraud. he has witnesses behind him. >> people who have seen alleged fraud, people who will be testifying in lawsuits. he presents this guy, darrel brooksing, who we learn later he's exposed himself to children underage. >> it became clear really quickly there was nothing really there. he wasn't exposing some big fraud that took place in philadelphia. the election wasn't stolen. >> while rudy was speaking, i was off to the side with mike and marie. we just kind of looked at each other and were in awe of how

long this was going on. >> and i know -- i know you won't accept it because of your hateful bias, but let's see if you can try thinking logically. some of the ballots have been manufactured in between. wouldn't be the first time they did it. >> i didn't think anybody took this real serious. >> how can i possibly tell you there's fraud or no fraud. >> you just said there was. >> and somebody yells out, do you know they've called the election for biden? >> who was ill called by? >> all the networks? >> all the networks, oh, my goodness, wow! all the networks! >> all the networks. when have the networks decided the election? something to that effect. and we're all thinking -- all the time. networks call the elections all the time. >> you can see this ripple amount the crowd of journalists as they try to figure out what

to do. and i'm kind of standing there thinking the same thing, do i need to stand here listening to rudy giuliani or go back to philadelphia, where people are going to be celebrating the election? and then you see people start to pack up their staff. >> many of them had to leave. because the primary story wasn't that rudy giuliani was challenging the election results. the story was that biden had just won the presidency. if somebody asks me, where were you when they called the election for joe biden, i'd say, well, i was in the parking lot of four seasons total landscaping. >> thank you. >> the president's lawyer left as the news came in that joe biden had been declared the victor. perhaps this is why they chose the industrial estate. they wouldn't be heard or welcomed here in downtown philadelphia. a city in a state which delivered donald trump the white house four years ago, pennsylvania is now the state which pushed joe biden over the line.

>> i just thought, sure, we said yeah and it was going to be over. period. >> we would have done this for either political campaign. we just wanted to be helpful. >> and we just had no idea what we were in for. >> did you see my press conference today? it was at the four seasons, fancy. >> yeah, sounds fancy, but it was at a landscaping company called four seasons. was that a mistake? >> what? no! >> we heard from all different types of media outlets and people wanting to know more about what happened. >> i got calls from "the washington post." >> "chicago times." >> "the new york times". >> "usa today." >> yahoo! news. >> hulu. >> abc. >> nbc. >> cnn. >> the bbc. i kept seeing that this was going further and into europe. >> german newspapers, irish newspapers, you name it, they were all calling. >> my emails have not stopped.

are you getting emails? >> nonstop. >> it's insane. it was supposed to be anonymous. >> yeah, that's why i said yes. otherwise, if i thought it was turning into this -- i would have thought twice. on the day after the press conference, it was nothing but chaos. we couldn't even use the office phone for two weeks, because it just never stopped ringing. >> you couldn't even get a thought processed, let alone answer them. >> you have 1,010 new messages of which three are urgent. >> message one. >> hey, there, calling for four seasons total landscaping. i understood that there is a special on bull -- this week. >> message two. >> deleted. >> disgrace to the country of the united states. >> you're an effing traitor.

>> deleted. >> the things they're saying about us is like amazing. i can't even believe this. okay, guys, wait until you hear this one. there's a big conspiracy theory. we're burning ballots across the street at the crematory. people's minds, they're just delusional. >> that was one of the hardest parts for me. i never had to deal with that level of hate. i'm talking hundreds and hundreds of emails. i just got basically saying to go eff yourself, going to burn down your building. it created a lot of fear of what the future holds for four seasons total landscaping. >> it's frightening, because 28 years could go down the tubes. i remember asking my husband joe, are we going to survive this? are we going to get out of this in one piece? people don't get it that being this business is not a picnic. i remember them coming to take

my car in the middle of the night. bringing a generator home, because they shut my electric off, because i couldn't cash my checks. i had a tough time borrowing money when i bought this building. i had to put my house up for the bank to give me a mortgage. so, i had the shot of losing both places. >> do i want to see something that she built just disappear? or was i going to keep the legacy going? >> trying to operate a business through all of this, i don't even know what word to use to describe this. >> people were taunting us, laughing at us. mocking us. and we needed to figure out a way to let them all know that we were in on the joke and that we were laughing, too. >> oh, oh, the networks. >> when you surround yourself with good people, good things happen. i think it started to turn when michael and shawn started to run with this on instagram and facebook and they made a joke

out of everything, because it was funny to us after, that they picked us out of everybody in the world, they picked our place. >> if this whole thing blew up, i would recover from it, i would go and work somewhere else, but a family business that was 28 years in the making might not recover from something like this. and i felt responsible, because these people are my family. >> understanding the joke and being in on it, it was just like a waterfall of memes you could make. we got put into a corner and we used our humor to get out of it. we were making thousands of people laugh, not only over the entire nation, but the world. it went from being majority negative and getting hate to then be total opposite overnight. >> they ended up doing this in a rinky dink parking lot, no offense to the landscaping company. the real oner, though, wasn't the campaign, which got to use it for free, it was the total

landscaping company, which has come out of this on top, just owning social media over the last month. >> like true entrepreneurs, we wanted to capitalize on this international attention and sell tee shirts. we want from being a landscaper to selling merchandise. we just started filling orders day and night. we've done approximately 1.5 million does in sales revenue. that's a lot of t-shirts. we've been getting a lot of fan mail. people have been sending us christmas cards with our zoom background on them. >> can you believe somebody made this? they made us our own lego set. there was a diorama of our company in berlin. that amazed me. who would want this? >> somebody made a virtual reality four seasons. we had people showing up on our doorstep, knocking, asking for t-shirts. we even had one employee that was leaving and somebody offered them $50 for the stained, suity t-shirt off their back. we had hundreds of visitors coming in the first couple days,

following our social media revamp. suddenly, we had fans. it was surreal. >> would you look at all these people out here? it's like every day. this is insane. people have referred to us as a philly landmark. we've had so many families out front. >> we even had two sisters. one lived in bethlehem, pennsylvania. the other in new york city. they met here with a blanket and picnic basket and had their thanksgiving dinner together here. i really think that the four seasons hotel thing was a blessing for us. if our name had been marie's landscaping, none of this would have happened. >> well, the team at four seasons total landscaping appears to have taken this in stride. go online now and can you buy a range of make america rake again and lawn and order merchandise. >> my reporting concluded that nobody from the trump campaign or any campaign had reached out

to the four seasons hotel about hosting any kind of event. >> i love the narrative that it was a mistake and that they meant to book the four seasons hotel. >> there was no mistake. this is exactly where the press conference was supposed to be. >> they had surveyed some areas along the i-95 corridor, and our site was one of the ones that they determined would be secure with quick access on and off the highway. >> and it was free. that's another important thing. the trump campaign blew through $1.1 billion. they were near broke before the presidential election. they didn't have any money, and that's why it couldn't have been at the four seasons hotel. they would have charged them. >> that's why it was at four seasons total landscaping, there's your inside track. because they didn't want to do it anywhere else. >> this has given me something that i can't explain to you. it's worth more than money. because this was not about money, at all.

this was about our story. >> it's an american underdog story. i think we were able to turn something that appeared to be disastrous for a small business into something positive. >> before the press conference, four seasons total landscaping was struggling. almost like living paycheck to paycheck. going from being just a local city landscaping company to now being globally recognized. it's amazing. but we're just honored being able to give back, helping the next person out. we did a toy drive this christmas with toys for tots. me and shawn went in ourselves, delivered them to the hospital. >> thank you laies so much. we really appreciate it. for them to get that joy, that was the best part for me, you know? i'm very proud of myself for that. >> when we get on the zoom, i

want you to take over this. >> yeah, i got you. >> we're end of the line for me and my career. but i know when i hand those keys over to michael, he's got it. he's proved himself. michael has shown every day how much he's grown as an individual, as a father, as a husband, as a soon. >> she's a phenomenal mother. she's always there to support me. it's like always having somebody with their hand on your back pushing you to greatness. >> for him to step into my shoes and take over my role, i have so much faith in him. i know he can do anything. >> my distinguished guests, my fellow americans, this is america's day!

this is democracy's day. a day of history and hope. of renewal and resolve. through a crucible for the ages, america's been tested anew, and america has risen to the challenge. >> the most amazing thing in my life has happened. i'm in a super bowl commercial. looks good, guys. success. right place, right time. fiber gets that. from graphic design to web development. we're even a pr expert for things like, i don't know, booking a press conference. fiver has the freelancers to get you where you want to be. >> is this a lobby? >> this is not a hotel. we have a big show coming up for you. marie and michael sivaco of four

seasons total landscaping are here to tell us what life has been like since that infamous day. and we're going to take a deeper look into how the big lie metastasized from giuliani's press conference. that's all coming up next right here on msnbc. don't go anywhere. n't go anywhe. . so, we switched back to tide. one wash, stains are gone. [daughter] slurping don't pay for water. pay for clean. it's got to be tide. (vo) t-mobile for business helps small business owners prosper during their most important time of year. when you switch to t-mobile and bring your own device, we'll pay off your phone up to $1000. you can keep your phone. keep your number. and get your employees connected on the largest and fastest 5g network. plus, we give you $200 in facebook ads on us! so you can reach more customers, create more opportunities, and finish this year strong. visit your local t-mobile store today.

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we're a landscaping company. we're experts in ground maintenance, irrigation, seeding, planting, not press conferences. >> why would the president's lawyers hold a press conference at a landscaping company? >> it was a pretty quick setup. obviously, you saw what was on tv. it was a landscape construction yard. >> wow, what a beautiful day, thank you. >> we just hate no idea what we were in for. >> we demand a fair election. >> oh, my goodness, all the networks. >> i remember asking, did we make a mistake? >> we had a lot of haters. >> you have 1,010 new messages.

>> it created a lot of fear for what the future holds for four seasons total landscaping. >> we got put into a corner and we used or humor to get us out of it. >> oh, all the networks. >> they made a joke out of everything, because it was funny to us. >> it's an american underdog story. on the morning of november 7th, 2020, then president donald trump sent out a series of tweets announing that his campaign would be holding a press conference at the four seasons in philadelphia, not the four seasons hotel, but four seasons total landscaping, the family-owned business located in north philadelphia, industrial park just off of i-95. it became host to one of the most surreal moments of the 2020 election and the subject of the "four seasons total documentary." the director of that documentary, christopher stout, the owner, marie siravo and her son, director on of operations,

michael, join me now. it was an absolutely incredible documentary. i cried. i laughed. i felt sorry for you, i was rooting for you at theened and i'm so happy to have the opportunity to talk to you. marie, i want to ask you, how has this journey been for you? how is the business and family doing now? >> everybody's doing great, and i'll be honest with you. this was the ride of a lifetime. i'm at the end of my career and i -- i'm happy that i made the decision i made when we were in, you know, when we were initially called to, you know, to hold the press conference here. and i never could have imagined that it would have turned out like this, but it has been such a year for us, because we've had one thing after another has happened. people have -- they've embraced us around the country and around the world. messages we've gotten. i couldn't be happier. and then to, you know, to get to

a year and have a documentary is -- it's just amazing for us. we're thrilled. >> chris, let's talk about that documentary for a moment. how did you decide on doing a documentary about this? how did you connect with the family? and how did you manage to get through to them with all of the thousands of phone calls and messages that they were receiving on any given day? >> well, obviously, the whole world wanted to know the mystery, you know, why did the president's lawyer hold a press conference at a landscaping company? so, clearly, this was this big question, the million dollar question that needed to be solved. and yes, outlets from all over the world were reaching out to them. but i actually had sort of an inside track. as it turned out, a friend of mine was brothers with shawn middleton, the director of sales at four seasons, so, i actually was able to get on the phone with them before anyone else did. and when we got on the phone

together, i got the sense that every outlet wanted to know, you know, why did this happen, why was the press conference held there? and for me, i was a lot more interested in getting to to know them as people and seeing how their experience has been, just having their world turned upside down. i mean, they were such a fish out of water, and for me, the conflict just called to me as a filmmaker. what the hell happened? >> michael, i wanted to play for you this clip from the documentary, just after the press conference with rudy giuliani. watch this moment. >> that was one of the hardest parts for me. i never had to deal with that level of hate. i'm talking hundreds and hundreds of emails. i just got. bsically saying, go eff yourself, going to burn down your building. it created a lot of fear of what the future holds for four seasons total landscaping. >> so the future has played out

a little bit. are you still getting messages like that? how do you handle the messages now? >> complete opposite messages. they're filled with, like, love and appreciation for, you know, the way we spun this and making it almost comedic. basic -- you know, if anybody stops through here, we hand them stickers, t-shirts, whatever we can, because it's crazy to think that there's fans, you know? that's the hardest part, for me, it's just like, there's actual fans of a philadelphia-based landscaping company. it's hard -- it's still hard for me to grasp, but i always tell people, if you're in the area, stop through, we'll take pictures, we'll do what we can if we have time. yeah, i love it. >> christopher, you had such an intimate insight into making this documentary. what surprised you the most while you were making this film? >> i mean, i think to mike's

point, what surprised me the most was this outpouring of love that four seasons received after the press conference. i mean, they sold $1.5 million worth of t-shirts. i mean, that's just incredible. you can still buy those t-shirts now. people were making christmas cards featuring the garage doors as a zoom background. the two sisters that came to four seasons to have their thanksgiving there. clearly, this moment resonated with people. and it created such an outpouring of love. and suddenly, four seasons total landscaping sort of meant something to people. and it became this meme that people could actually share with together and it kind of created this online community. >> i'm going to go out on a limb and say there's probably going to be some wedding proposal there at some point. let me ask you really quickly, marie, let me ask you, though, because it's become such an icon location. has any other political party or

campaign reached out to you to hold a political event there? and if so, what would you say? >> unfortunately, no other political campaign has approached us. but we would have said yes, because, you know, knowing where it got us here and all the excitement that we've had, we'd do it again. we would do it again. the outpouring and the embracing that we've had, the way people have treated us, the end result was just -- it may not have been business-enhancing, but the treatment we got and truthfully everywhere we go somebody knows us. it's exciting. it's really exciting. you work your whole life and what a way to go out. i'm at the end of my career, and this is just amazing to me that people stop me and say you look like the girl, the lady from four seasons. i am the lady from four seasons, and it's just funny. it's just, you know, it's

amazing. >> michael, i know the future of this company is so important to you and your family. we heard christopher talk about how you turned this situation into a positive one with the merchandise. have you given any thought to the future of the company and what you plan to do about expanding beyond doing landscaping and now the merchandise, perhaps even become an event space one day? >> yeah, i think the main goal for me is to obviously create more jobs. keep growing to the next level. that was always my plan from prior to the conference. our niche is landscaping, it probably always will be. i'll do the same thing that i did the first time around. it's just take one day at a time. one week at a time and just kind of go from there. if something gets put in our opportunity to do something, yeah, i don't see why not. >> well, we're going to be rooting for you, for whatever you guys decide to do in the

future. christopher stout and michael and marie sirvano, thank you. absolutely brilliant and wonderful documentary. up next, how the election fraud narrative pushed by rudy giuliani at four seasons total landscaping became a defining belief among republican voters. the growth of the big lie, coming up next. g lie, coming up next 's extra dirt you can't see. watch this. that was in these clothes... ugh. but the clothes washed in tide- so much cleaner. if it's got to be clean it's got to be tide hygienic clean. no surprises in these clothes! couple more surprises. (kate) this holiday, verizon has the deal that gets better and better and better. get iphone 13 pro, on us, when you trade in your old or damaged phone. here, the phone everyone wants, on america's most reliable network. better? (guy) better. (kate) that's not all. the new iphone, and up to 7 entertainment subscriptions for your family.

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this is a gross miscarriage of the process that would assure that these ballots are not fraudulent. it is a fraud. >> i think it is a corrupt stolen election. >> i've never seen this amount of voter irregularity. >> the election is being stolen. the evidence is overwhelming. >> i'm not sure that every vote was counted, not in the right way. >> they say i lost. i didn't lose. the election was rigged. >> how does anybody trust the election results? >> so the election lies pushed by the trump campaign at four seasons total landscaping in

november 2020 have only kept growing ever since. and joining me here to talk about that one of the producers on four seasons total documentary, and the washington correspondent for new york magazine, along with our political analyst kimberly atkins. great to have you both with us. olivia, let's start with that moment when you look at that time that giuliani was standing there pedding the allegations of voter fraud just as the networks were calling the election for joe biden. it almost seems comical and you want to laugh at what you were seeing there. but given at how this has resonated among republicans, what does that moment in time mean for where we are as a country? >> i wouldn't say it was a break with really when people talk about the wheels being off of the trump white house, i would say there were wheels? and so four seasons was not a breaking point because things

had been insane, the election had been all about conspiracies for a long time. the administration has been about conspiracies. donald trump's entire political career was about conspiracies. but it was this kind of formal moment where they officially made conspiracies and insanity their strategy going forward. and what followed that was the insurrection. so even though this was this hilariously weird historic event at this landscaping company by mistake or foreplanning, still there is a kind of grimness to the whole thing knowing what came after. >> so kimberly, to that point when you look at where the polling is today on this, you know, some polls suggest as much as 68% of republicans believe

the election was stolen. they believe the big lie. it is even higher for people who use fox news as their main source of information or who trust it, i think it is like in the low 80s. how do you begin to even counter the big lie when you have that many people buying into it? >> it is difficult. and to be sure this was amplified by donald trump and his campaign. but it goes back so much farther. we have to remember that the idea of the big lie and why it was able to take hold is because decades lawmakers, particularly republicans, have used this, this idea of protecting against fraud, fraud that has never existed, that has never been proven, in order to make voting more difficult, to pass laws with everything from stripping voters' names from polls, from requiring i.d. requirements where we know that it is more difficult for black people, brown people, poor people to get them and they tend to vote democratic. that has been happening for a long time. you have the stripping of the voting rights act where it

happened even more. so it was sort of that was the kindling where donald trump's big lies was able to set afire and lead to this. and so that is why it is so much harder to fight back against now. >> and in the months leading up to this fateful day at four seasons total landscaping, trump is sort of throwing out different reasons why he would eventually lose. once it became clear to him, i remember talking to advisers in the white house, once he started to accept that it was a possibility which took a really long time given what the polls said and how things were going in the country with the coronavirus, he started to kind of amp things up with spitballing about things that were going wrong, who is taking the election from him, the fact that fraud was forthcoming basically, to give himself an excuse in the event that he did lose. >> and you talk about conspiracy theories. there was this one moment in the

documentary that i think is very foreshadowing. let me play it for you, it is when marie starts receiving phone calls and messages and one was a conspiracy theory. watch. >> the things they are saying about us is like amazing. i can't even believe this. >> okay, guys, wait until you hear this one. there is a big conspiracy theory, we're burning ballots across the street at the crematory. >> kimberly, that seems like a harbinger of the conspiracy theorys that we're now inundated with around this election because of moments like that. >> absolutely. when there is no uniform source of information, information sources are tie verse filed and when so much misinformation is fuel the, that is exactly what happens. people believe what they want to believe. and that is where you see that

thing run wild and we're still seeing that today, people are sort of dug into their corners and believing whatever supports their side. >> kimberly, olivia, thank you so much. and thank you at home for watching. we're keeping the conversation going online using the #fourseasonstotal. please join in. please join in ♪ ♪ ♪ downy's been taking you back, since way back. with freshness and softness you never forget. feel the difference with downy.

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