looking forward to seeing you then. in the meantime, you can catch me on nbc news now, our streaming network, weekdays at 3:00 p.m. eastern. my colleague joe picks up the coverage right now. welcome to msnbc reports. it's 1:00 p.m. here in new york, 10:00 a.m. out west. this hour, covid clarifications. the white house covid task force aims to clear up confusion about testing, transmissibility and quarantines for those who test positive for the virus. plus, breaking news. nbc news has just learned president biden will speak with vladimir putin tomorrow as tensions continue to mount over russia's aggressive actions for ukraine. and remembering harry reid. a look back at the life and legacy of the former senate majority leader. but we begin with the pandemic. the seven-day average of new

cases has topped 262,000, surpassing the record that was set last january. short time ago, cdc director walensky defended her agency's decision to cut in half the recommended isolation time for people who test positive but are asymptomatic. she said the move was driven by the science not pressure from the business community. and dr. fauci acknowledged that more children are being infected with covid and that it's still not known how severe the virus, omicron in particular, is in children. unanswered questions as schools nationwide map out their plans for students to return after winter break next week. joining me now is nbc news white house correspondent mike memoli, dr. william shaffner. mike, let's start with you. the white house task force briefed a little more than an

hour ago. how did they defend the cdc's new quarantine and isolation guidelines? >> reporter: yeah, joe, this was an important opportunity for the country to hear from the president's top advisers on dealing with the pandemic. so many questions about a number of issues. we heard from dr. fauci, new data, which indicates that this particular strain, the omicron strain, while it is much more highly transmissible, does appear to be less severe. that's certainly some good news, even if the transmissibility is a problem leading to those record case counts. we also got a little bit of an update on the announcement the president made last week, 500 million testing kits made available to americans. indicating a contract will be finalized within the next week. still on that january timeline to deliver those tests. obviously, the big question and the real defense coming from this team, specifically from cdc director walensky, around that shrinking quarantine and isolation period. a lot of questions about what

led to this decision. we heard walensky really reiterating this is a decision that represents something of a balancing test. yes, of the need to keep america running as close to normal as possible in a pandemic but also clearly based on the science. let's listen to part of her response. >> let me make clear that we are standing on the shoulders of two years of science, two years of understanding transmissibility and a lot of information that we have gleaned from the wildtype virus as well as the alpha and delta variants, and more that we continue to learn every single day about omicron. >> reporter: we also heard walensky explain, as she did in a number of interviews this morning, something that's really important as it relates to testing for individuals who are known already to have been infected by the virus. there's been some questions about whether you should get a test after that five-day period of isolation in order to return to the workplace, to return to schools. certainly a lot of schools and workplaces are actually requesting this. they even requested this at the

white house, if you're a reporter. a staff who has been testing positive. walensky has been stressing, no, they are not recommending you get a test after that isolation period, once you're no longer showing symptoms for two reasons. one, those more sensitive pcr tests may show you're positive for as long as a period of 12 weeks after the original infection and those more rapid antigen tests may not show if you're transmitting the disease. that's adding to the confusion given the requirements that so many workplaces require that you show a negative test to return to the workplace. >> i'm going to ask you to hang tight to talk about other breaking news. shaq, let's bring you in. you're in illinois, breaking case records. it's a handful of states driving an increase in pediatric hospitalizations. what do we know about those hospitalizations in kids? what are cities like chicago doing to prepare for school which starts back up again next week? >> reporter: yeah, the return to school is the main focus for so

many people. before we get there, we did just get an update from city leaders here in chicago, just underscoring the rapid spread that they're seeing. they said the positivity rate here in chicago is 16.2%. joe, last week it was 8%. the week before that it was 4%. so, you see how quickly this is all accelerating. they're saying this is a direct result of the omicron variant, where it's resulting in cases. more cases than they have ever seen before. they said by a significant amount. so, that is the context. that is the backdrop you hear this concern about the return to the classrooms coming up next week. especially in the context of the study, a new nbc study showing kids are getting hospitalized at a faster rate than the adult population. that's being led in states like new york, new jersey, ohio and florida and right here in illinois. that's why you hear leaders emphasizing the importance of testing. even the chicago public school district sending out more than 150,000 tests to homes, telling

parents to test their kids, send those back, that way they can assure fewer kids are positive in the classroom. you're hearing that concern because the spread is at this point uncontrollable, joe. >> doctor, we've got a lot of questions right now. let's start with this one. the fda put out an update that said early data suggests that antigen tests do detect the omicron variant but may have reduced sensitivity. explain for us, what does that mean for kids going back to school, for adults testing before seeing loved ones, how much can we rely on these at-home tests? >> well, joe, the at-home tests are useful but every test has its limitations, as well as its advantages. and i think what the fda is saying is that sometimes a positive test may not be actually indicative of what's going on. also on the negative side, there

are times when the test reads negative. that's something we've known for some time, that it should be positive. so, the tests are useful, but they're not the final answer. but, nonetheless, as we use them generally, they will help reduce the risk of transmission in the population. >> they are a tool. to make it clear to our viewers, when should you use one of those rapid at-home tests and when should you be seeking out a pcr, which means leaving your home? >> well, we're using the pcr tests in hospitalized patients. that's when we want an absolutely precise diagnosis. for example, when people come visiting our house, where we have someone living with us with a high-risk condition, they're using the at-home test. that's good enough for us. it gives us a good sense that they're negative and they can

come visit with reasonable safety. it's not as good as the pcr but it's good on a day-to-day basis. >> doctor, i also want to ask you what you make of the cdc's revised estimates of just how prevalent omicron is. it dropped from more than 70% to 22% of cases during the week of december 18th. that was the week leading up to christmas. so, what is this revision? what does it telt us about omicron? is it not spreading as fast as we first thought? >> it's spreading -- your lead-in segments indicate it's spreading very widely, getting into the pediatric population also. in different parts of the country there may be different proportions of omicron and delta still out there. it looks as though omicron is outrunning delta in most parts of the united states. i dare say by the first of the year, certainly within the first couple of weeks of 2022, omicron

will be far and away the most dominant virus. >> doctor, we'll see if you can help clarify these new cdc guidelines. this was my question from the moment the new guidance was put out. do you have to be asymptomatic the entire time after you test positive in order to leave isolation on day five, or do you have to be asymptomatic by day five? >> asymptomatic by day five. certainly without fever. if you have a few other symptoms, still having some cough, as long as they're -- that cut on is diminishing, you're okay. >> all right. thank you. appreciate everything that you're helping us understand here. later this hour, we'll talk to a mayor about how her city's hospitals and schools are navigating this coronavirus spike. but let's turn back to mike. i want to ask about some other breaking news we mentioned at the top of the hour. the white house confirmed just

in the last hour, president biden will be speaking with russian president vladimir putin and he's going to do it tomorrow. what more do we know, mike? >> reporter: joe, it certainly speaks to the heightened tensions dealing with ukraine, that it was six months between that in-person meeting between presidents biden and putin in geneva to the virtual conference that took place three weeks ago, and now within the span of that three weeks, they'll be speaking again. we just learned more about this from a white house official who briefed reporters in the last few minutes. the white house saying that this call was actually at the request of president putin. we heard something similar when the russian president held his sort of marathon annual news conference in which he indicated he did hope to speak to president biden again soon. now, typically, it's not something you necessarily want to reward president putin for, this white house official saying president biden certainly believes there is great value in leader-to-leader conversation, especially in a situation like

this. yesterday the white house announced there will be other talks happening between u.s. and russian officials. we just learned those will also be taking place in geneva on january 10th. but this call between the two leaders tomorrow seemed to indicate that president biden himself, president putin, would not be indicating on those talks on the 10th. that's what the white house is saying. but it's important to note that when we heard from the conversation several weeks ago between the two presidents, the white house insisted moving forward, that any conversations about the future of ukraine would only occur with ukraine at the table. we know secretary of state tony blinken spoke to the ukrainian president today. white house official telling me we would certainly expect to see some follow-up conversations between those two presidents, president biden and president zelensky in the days following this call. shaping up to be a very busy week here, even on a holiday week for president biden with a high-stakes diplomatic engagement tomorrow, joe. >> mike, busy week for you as well, pulling double duty.

appreciate it. first coming up, remembering harry reid. congressional leaders reflect on the life and legacy of the former senate majority leader as democrats plot a course for next year's legislative agenda. later, uncovering relics of the past. what historians found when they opened a box believed to be from 1887. you're watching "msnbc reports." " 't healthcare company. building a future where cancers can be cured. strokes can be reversed. joints can be 3-d printed. and there isn't one definition of what well feels like. there are millions. we're using our world to make your world a world of well.

welcome back. harry reid, one of the most powerful and transformative senate leaders in u.s. history died last night. he was 82 years old. born in poverty in the small town of search light, nevada, he became the state's lieutenant governor at the age of 31 after stints as the head of the state's gaming commission and in the house, he was elected to the senate in 1986. that's where he would remain for 30 years. he led the senate democratic caucus for 12 years and was instrumental in wrangling roets

for economic recovery bills during the great recession and affordable care act. 2013 he led the effort to lower the threshold for presidential appointments to 50 votes to break' stalemate on then-president obama's nominees. president obama shared a letter he wrote to reid saying, i wouldn't have been president had it not been for your encouragement and support, and i wouldn't have got most of what i got done without your skill and determination. president biden said in a statement, if harry said he would do something, he did it. if he gave you his word, you could bank on it. that's how he got things done for the good of the country for decades. joining me now is msnbc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali and long-time journalist john l. smith. we have seen the tributes pouring in. what do they tell us about how big of a figure harry reid was. >> yes, a towering figure in the

senate, especially as we consider his tenure as a democratic leader in comparison to the moment that majority leader chuck schumer faces today. schumer, one of those people who served in reid's leadership operation, who called him a mentor. and who certainly must be thinking of him amid the debates on policy that schumer himself is facing now. what's clear, though, in all of these commemoration of reid's life and service on capitol hill is a man remembered as much for his toughness in the name of the political game as he is for his reverence and dedication to the senate as an institution. you mentioned some of the policies he he helped herald through in the legislation process, both from the economic side of it after the great recession, but also through the affordable care act. someone else who's covered him for a long time in nevada state politics, john ralston, even making the joke that it could be called reidcare or harrycare as much as it could be called obamacare because of the role that reid played in actually getting that legislation passed.

but the other side of it, too, is especially at a time when washington and the senate is considering the role of the filibuster, you have to consider what harry reid did there as well. going nuclear in 2013, even with three democrats. joe manchin among them, opposing that filibuster change to nominations, effectively allowing a simple majority for all nominations, except for the supreme court. that was the first dom on notice to fall in terms of filibuster reform. reid triggering that in 2013. and then several years later, when mcconnell held the gavel in control of that chamber, he did it as well to ease that simple majority confirmation process for supreme court nominees, paving the way for the trump supreme court nominations and justices that currently sit there. a polarizing figure in washington who certainly left his mark on the senate institution. >> i want to note just a moment ago the white house announced flags will be lowered to half-staff across the country on

the day harry reid is buried. john, you covered harry reid for a long time. how do you sum up his career and what's the mark he left on your state, the state of nevada? >> well, it's absolutely an indelible mark on nevada, first of all. in nevada, everyone has an opinion about harry reid. and it was divided just about evenly by the end of his career. here is a guy who was capable, was so capable with the politics, with not just getting things through in washington, but escaping some real tight situations in campaigns in nevada. as time went on, he was, i think, notable for being able to change with the times. like a lot of western democrats, he was quite conservative when he started out in his career. and yet by the end of his career, the laurels were coming from environmentalists and folks on the left. so, you know, you've got a

fellow who's not only is his biography a remarkable success story, but he overcame a lot of controversies to survive and thrive in nevada e even at times when he wasn't the most popular guy on the ticket. >> john, as ali noted, some might argue the affordable care act was as much harry reid's achievement as it was president obama's. how did he get these major bills over the finish line? what was his style? >> you know, this is what's so interesting about reid's story. this is a guy who in most of the time his manner was really understated. he was really mild-mannered. not a great speaker in public. and prone to, of course, malaprops and incendiary comments about the opposition. that was one reid. the other reid was a guy who, as it was stated, really knew policy. he knew how to get work behind the scenes. he knew how to get things done. and in today's politics, of

course, we seem to have a lot of folks who have forgotten that. reid never forgot that. despite his other, you know, quirks of character, he was able to get things done. and i think that's -- you know, the affordable care act is a great example of that. >> yeah, talking about getting things done, ali, reid was able to wrangle 60 democratic votes for the affordable care act at a time when moderate democrats were considered more conservative than they are today. how does that contrast, or maybe some would argue, how could it align with the current struggle democrats are having with the build back better plan? >> well, look, the biggest contrast is, i don't know that any of us who cover politics in washington today could imagine anyone having 60 votes at one time among democrats. i mean, the margins are just so much tighter right now that chuck schumer is dealing with than what harry reid dealt with. at the same time, there is that struggle that schumer saw. their styles are just so different. they both came up in a similar

political era, but at the same time, the way they have tackled politics is different. schumer has taken the approach recently of unity among democrats being the top talking point. the way he has dealt with senator joe manchin has been markedly different. harry reid and joe manchin which, especially up until the end, in 2016, after the election, manchin went after harry reid for something negative he said about then-president-elect donald trump. the tone and tenor of those relationships are so starkly different, but it's also -- you look at the way the affordable care act was pushed through, it's a conversation that is still being had on the hill. when you talk about tough legislative fights. it's hard for dells, i think, not to wonder at this point how harry reid type figure would handle this legislative moment in comparison to chuck schumer. we'll see what the road ahead looks like on build back better, whether it becomes a more scaled-down package, what

manchin has wanted all along, whether they try to negotiate a larger package that encompasses more policy items. all of that remains to be seen. when you consider the legacy of harry reid, being able to push through so many legislative triumphs, i mean, when you look at the role the senate has played as a body that moves so slowly and so deliberately, it's a striking legacy. >> john, we're tight on time here, but quickly help us understand how big of a kingmaker was harry reid? >> harry reid was certainly a kingmaker for democrats in nevada, number one. number two, his creation of what they call around herele reid machine, it played an integral role in the democrats not just in holding power, but to grow, to meet the demographics of the new nevada. you see a female majority legislature in our state. you see a lot of things different from the politics reid

grew up in. he understood that. and i think that is also part of his legacy. >> jon l. smith, ali vitali, thank you for this look back. appreciate it. coming up, control of the senate hangs in the balance next year, but the battle lines are being drawn right now. we'll break it all down with one of the best analysts in the business after the break. you're watching "msnbc reports request the ". watching "msnbc s quest the ". ♪ limu emu... & doug ♪ ♪ superpowers from a spider bite? i could use some help showing the world how liberty mutual customizes their car insurance so they only pay for what they need. (gasps) ♪ did it work? only pay for what you need ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ spider-man no way home in theaters december 17th if you wanna look fresh, fresh. you gotta eat fresh. eat fresh. that's why subway bought time in my shampoo ad.

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welcome back. 2022 is just around the corner and that means midterm season is about to really ramp up. taking a look at the senate map, 34 seats are up for grabs next year. democrats are looking to hold or expand upon their ultranarrow 50-50 edge while republicans are hoping to win back control. nbc's henry gomez have identified these 11 contests as the races to watch next year. several of them will play out in battleground states. it will also be very important in the 2024 presidential election. we're going to spend a lot of time looking at these races over the next year. let's get -- dig in now for our first look. joining me is an expert on the midterms, senate and governor's editor, jessica taylor. help us understand, how much is the national climate impact going to be on these statewide senate races from biden's popularity to getting covid and inflation under control, what role is all of that going to play for democrats in these

close races? >> well, what we've seen increasingly over the past few cycles is these senate races have become so increasingly nationalized. that wasn't the case, you know, 20, 30 years ago. but they typically go very closely to the presidential results. now, in midterm elections, those can deviate some. the good news for democrats, in a way, is that it matters which states are up. so, they are defending more 20 seats to 14, democrats are defending 14 to 20 for republicans. but a president's first midterm election, they typically lose seats in congress. now, worse outcome for the house, which i think is much more perilous, especially when you add in redistricting. it's a 50-50 margin. literally, every seat matters. when we look at where president biden's approval numbers have been in the low 40s, and you look at all of these things with omicron surge, certainly, and inflation, as you mentioned,

that's not -- it's not a good environment for democrats right now. but what we're going to look at going into 2022, it comes down to climate versus candidates for me. as we look at a lot of these primaries that are going to start happening in the spring, there's a lot of mine fields for republicans, problematic candidates that could be nominated. if it's a bad enough political environment, you can see b, c type candidates that could still win. back in 2010 when it was a republican wave and republicans took back the house and won 63 seats, they fell short in really critical senate races in nevada and colorado and delaware because of weak candidates. >> what is it you're watching for, especially primaries, especially in places like ohio and missouri. could we see republicans nominate candidates that might be too far outside the mainstream to win the whole

state? >> i think we're talking ohio and missouri. for instance in missouri, the former governor had to step down amidst a sex scandal as nominee is problematic. missouri is such a red state, he would still be the favorite. same thing with ohio, former nominee who ran and lost in 2012, josh mandell. republicans -- ohio has been trending red. i'm going to be looking at what type of candidates they nominate in a place like arizona. it was a very close election. mark kelly outpaced biden. he's going to need to do that again. that's a very late primary in august. i'm going to be looking at pennsylvania, what type of candidate they nominate there, which is a seat the republicans are defending. it should be a democrat's best pickup opportunity. they have a primary on their side, primarily between lieutenant governor john

fedorman, more of a progressiveman, versus conor lamb, more of a moderate and other candidates in there as well. you now have dr. oz running on the republican side. could that put that race more in play, or if the environment is this bad, it's not going to matter. i'm looking at primaries there in north carolina as well to see what happens. >> in alaska, i'm intrigued by that, former president trump is backing a republican rival challenging the sitting senate, lisa murkowski,. what do you think of trump's crusade? we're tight on time. >> this is the only senate incumbent he's endorsed against. murkowski is the only one that voted for impeachment up for re-election. she lost a primary in 2010, won as a write-in candidate and alaska has changed their laws this cycle. it's an all-party primary with

top four party will advance to the general election. from there it's a ranked choice voting system. murkowski has support from independents and democrats. this is not a traditional primary where she could lose. >> all right. jessica taylor, thanks so much for your perspective and expertise. we always appreciate it. ahead, with pediatric hospitalizations on the rise, cities and school districts have to make tough choices about what to do as winter break ends. you're watching "msnbc reports." i'm greg, i'm 68 years old. i do motivational speaking

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the holidays are wrapping up and covid is surging with travelers returning home, at least trying to. students heading back to class, cities across the country are once again bracing for another wave. that includes madison, wisconsin, where residents woke up to these headlines on the front page of the wisconsin state journal, warning the area's hospitals are already, quote, dangerously close to crisis and testing is in short

supply. joining me now is madison mayor conway. good to have you with us. thanks so much. i know madison short on hospital beds, short on tests. what are you doing right now to tackle this? what is it your city needs right now? >> thank you for having us on to talk about what's going on in mad sob, in wisconsin. we are concerned, we are currently experiencing a high number of covid cases. as you said, and hospitalizations. we also have pretty high testing, which is a good thing. honestly, we need more tests, we need more testing capacity. we need people to be able to test at home if they have an exposure so that we can really understand who's been exposed, who's got covid and who needs to be isolating or to get care. honestly, we're doing pretty well in terms of vaccination here in madison. we're very proud of that.

and, of course, we need everybody to get vaccinated or boosted if they haven't already. >> what are you able to do to try to meet the testing demand? pharmacies, we know, are strained. are you able to reopen any community testing sites that you had earlier during previous surges? what's the solution here? >> we have had great success in madison with community-based testing. we do have a testing site at our convention center in partnership with the county and we are continuing to roll out more testing and to actually go into different neighborhood to make testing available. so, i really do feel like our public health department is doing everything they can. honestly, it's about getting tests and we think we need the federal government's help for that. >> let's talk about schools, which is such a big topic right now, winter break coming to an end soon. how do you plan to handle the

return to school for kids in your area? >> so, in madison, as in many cities, the school district is a support governmental agency. we'll be working to support them in their planning and accommodating as much as we can, helping them out. i know they have been very strapped in terms of their nurses and their health care options within the school building. but we stand ready to help support them as much as we possibly can as kids potentially go back into school buildings. you know, we do see good vaccination rates here in madison amongst our young people. i've been very, very thankful for that. we are the last county in wisconsin to have an indoor mask order. so, we do expect kids to be masking up in school to help keep each other and their families safe. >> as mayor, what would you like to see? do you think kids should go back

into the classroom right now? >> you know, that's something i think we really have to balance with our school district. it's been really, really hard, i know, for a lot of young people to not be in the classroom. and we see the impacts on mental health very clearly. so, i think it's important for us to balance the risk from covid with the risk of other things. and i think that there are things the school district can do to keep kids safe in schools, but i do think we need to be prepared. not just for the impact on kids, but for the impact on staff and what we're seeing, i think, really across the country is that omicron is just really making it very hard for folks to come to work when they get an exposure, that time period of needing to isolate and test, really impacts the workforce a lot. so, i think our schools need to be prepared for that.

>> madison mayor rhodes-conway, thank you for your time. we appreciate it. up next, days of deliberations without a verdict in a pair of closely watched criminal cases. what it could mean in the elizabeth holmes fraud trial and ghislaine maxwell sex trafficking case. ghislaine maxw trafficking case ♪♪ go long! oh god, they'll never let us back in here. i'm james corden and i'm here to tell people that ww is getting even more personal. the new ww personalpoints program is particular to you. you can eat pizza. you can even eat this.. if you want to. and these... in the same, i mean not at the same time, i wouldn't do them at the same time. no two plans are the same. when can i start?! start the new year with three months free!

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trials as the year draws to a close. juries continue to deliberate today in the cases of elizabeth holmes and jeffrey epstein associate ghislaine maxwell. holmes is charged with is 11 counts of fraud. she pleaded not guilty. in new york a jury is deliberating for a fifth day on charges against maxwell. she's accused of sex trafficking young girls for epstein. maxwell also pleaded not guilty to those charges. scott cohen and joined by chuck rosenberg, former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst. scott, let's start with you. the holmes jury back for another day of deliberations. what's the latest? any news at all? >> reporter: very little, joe. we're day six into deliberations. important to keep this in

perspective. this was roughly a three-month trial with 32 witnesses and hundreds of pieces of evidence. six days is not to the point where anybody is getting nervous. we've only heard from this jury twice over the course of the six days. once they asked if they could take the jury instructions home with them. they were denied that because that constitutes deliberations that can only happen in the jury room. and then on thursday, just before christmas, they wanted to hear a key piece of audio. this was elizabeth holmes speaking to perspective investors on a conference call, talking about the company's supposed contracts with the military, which it did not have, as well as associations with pharmaceutical companies. it was key to the prosecution's case, saying that she lied to investors, whereas the defense says that those were innocent statements, simply the things that entrepreneurs do in raising money and she had no intent to defraud. the other thing that we're trying to get some information about is that there was a closed

hearing about 20 minutes yesterday with the prosecution and defense team and the judge. no word on what that was about. the transcript has been sealed. could be any number of things, but it's one more thing to keep us guessing as we wait for a verdict. >> lots of guessing right now. let's go to the other side of the country and, ron, any clue what's happening with the jury in the maxwell trial, ron? >> reporter: they've been asking a lot of questions and asking for a lot of transcripts. 15 questions so far. and we're somewhere near 37 hours of deliberations over these five days. so, they're in the thick of it. and, again, there's really no indication of how much longer this might go. yesterday there were no questions. and they were saying that they made progress. they were making progress. they said that in a note to the judge. but today they've asked for more transcripts and more questions. so, they don't seem to be near the end of it, if you will. there's also a lot of concern

about the schedule going forward because the covid outbreak happening here in the city. the judge has said that it's her inclination to have the jurors deliberate tomorrow, friday and into the weekend and the new year holiday, if need be. she's concerned about them going back and forth because they're not sequestered. she's concerned about the spike in cases here in new york city and the fact that a juror or court official or attorney or someone involved in the trial might become infected or might be near someone who is infected, might have to quarantine and all of that could potentially cause a mistrial if, in fact, that happened. she's trying to move the jury along. there was also the suggestion of trying to deliberate longer today, until 6:00 p.m., not 5:00 p.m. unclear if that will happen or not. again, another step by the judge to try to move things along without pressuring the jury too much. you can imagine how much pressure they must be feeling, given the covid problem here,

given the high-profile nature of this case, given they're backing up to yet another holiday. they had several days off during the christmas holiday last weekend, which is why, again, this has been a very, very unusual deliberation that continues. again, we're at 37 hours or so and counting. joe? >> chuck, what are your thoughts on these deliberations? should we be reading much into this or are these simply complicated cases that are going to take a while to figure out? >> i think the latter, joe. these are complicated cases that are going to take a while to figure out. look, i've tried numerous cases in federal court as a prosecutor. sometimes my complex cases were resolved quickly by a jury. sometimes my simple cases took the jury a very long time. if either jury was deadlocked, if they were hopelessly deadlocked, they could write a note to the judge and tell him that. we haven't heard that yet.

they're asking for transcripts, points of clarification that arose during the trial. i wouldn't read anything into it. >> some people might think, these are long deliberations. we're looking at the potential for a hung jury. to those who think that, what would you say to them? >> it's the right question to ask. what a lot of people don't appreciate is that in order to convict or acquit, a jury has to be unanimous. 12-0 to acquit. 12-0 to convict. and so jurors, after long or complex trials, work through the evidence. they do it, i think, the right way, slowly, carefully, deliberately. if they can't reach a verdict, and that's possible, they will indicate to the judge that they are hopelessly deadlocked. that would result in a hung jury. if you can't resolve either 12-0 for conviction or 12-0 for acquittal, it would be a hung jury. under that circumstance, joe, and this is an exception to the

fist amendment's protection against double jeopardy, the government could re-try the cases. it would be a mistrial, declared by the judge. but they could retry the cases. we're not there yet. there's no indication that the juries are hopelessly deadlocked. neither jury has told the judge that. so my guess is they're still working through it. >> chuck, we know the judges have given their instructions already. is there anything else the judges can do to help the juries along? >> that's also an interesting question. if a jury indicates to a judge, by note, because that's how they communicate now, that they're deliberating, if a jury indicates by note that they're really having difficulty resolving the counts in the indictment, the judge can give them another instruction, sometimes referred to as an allen charge or a dynamite charge. you have to be really careful when you do this.

the judge doesn't want to strong-arm a jury either way, for conviction or acquittal. the judge can say, ladies and gentlemen, there's no reason to think another jury would be any better at this than you, so keep an open mind, please continue to deliberate, listen to one another, debate with one another, review the evidence, and if you can come to some sort of conclusion, that's preferable to having to try this over again. it's a fine line for a judge to walk. again, joe, you don't want to strong-arm or push a jury into resolving a case it's not ready to resolve. >> and chuck, if, if either case does end in a hung jury, then what happens next? >> right, so i had alluded to that earlier, but probably didn't explain it very well, joe. a hung jury means the government can retry the case. the fifth amendment of the constitution says that you can't be put in jeopardy twice for the same offense. but a hung jury is an exception to this double jeopardy

prohibition. now, it would be really interesting, as a prosecutor, to know how the jury hung. if they hung 11-1 for conviction, it's probably a case you want to retry. if they hung 11-1 for acquittal, you would have to think long and hard about whether or not you would try that case again. so they could retry a case if the jury hangs. but it would matter to a prosecutor what that numerical breakdown is, if they are able to obtain it. that would help them make such a decision, joe. >> chuck, thanks so much for explaining all of this to you. thank you to you, scott, and ron for your reporting. up next, you saw it live yesterday, that civil war era time capsule being opened for the first time in over a century. we'll show you what was inside, next. was indesi, next johnson & johnson is the world's largest healthcare company. building a future where cancers can be cured. strokes can be reversed.

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welcome back. an update now to a story we brought you live as it was unfolding yesterday. the opening of that time capsule, or as experts like to call it, a cornerstone box, because it wasn't slated to be opened at a specific time. it was buried beneath the robert e. lee statue in richrichmond. historians believe it was from 1887. >> reporter: historians are thrilled to discover relics of the past in richmond, virginia, at the base of where the infamous confederate statue of robert e. lee once stood.

when teams cut through the granite pedestal -- >> the capstone slid off and there it is. >> reporter: -- they found a 36-pound box, what experts are calling a cornerstone box, mads copper. the bomb squad examined x-rays for active gunpowder. then virginia archeologists got inside, 144 years after it was sealed. inside, confederate money. bullets and buttons. a hand carved confederate flag. an old newspaper. a bible. coins. and letters. historian dale brumfield says it gives us a firsthand look at the mindset of the confederacy. >> it's not just what's inside the box that's important, it was also what's left out. there was nothing in that box that represented the african american community. >> reporter: conservationists had opened another box found in

the statue's pedestal, that much smaller box believed to be placed by the people who constructed the monument in 1887. the robert e. lee statue, completed in 1890 in richmond, had been the most prominent reminder of that era to come back. communities have been removing confederate tributes across the country as they come to terms with the dark past associated with the statues. the vast majority of these statues were installed decades after the civil war had already ended. >> in 1987 they were more interested in preserving the past than in looking forward to a more diverse and inclusive virginia. >> reporter: historians had been hoping to find a photo of abraham lincoln but so far no sign of the photo. >> we were treating them as artifacts. we're trying to stabilize them. then we'll be able to go back and figure out what we have. >> it will still be days and more likely weeks or months

before historians have a complete understanding of everything they found inside the box. after this finding, some virginia leaders have decided to create a 2021 time capsule with new items including the first lady of virginia's covid mask. we'll see what they think of that in 130 years. that does it for me this hour. catch me weekdays 7:00 a.m. eastern on our streaming network, nbc news now. msnbc coverage with katy tur continues right now. i don't want that covid mask as a reminder. good to be with you. i'm katy tur. the white house covid response team is out with new details on the severity of the new omicron variant after the u.s. hit major milestones in the nearly two-year battle with the coronavirus. dr. anthony fauci says cases in the united states have more than doubled over the past two weeks, up 126%. but folks, we have got to couple that with hospitalizations, they are up by a much smaller percentage, just 11%.