ripped through boulder county is taking a turn. then, millions of kids head back to school tomorrow, amid an explosive omicron-fueled rise in covid cases nationally. what you protecting your family. plus, here's a fun sunday morning game. see if you can get which red state governor is multily suing the federal government over public measures designed to help with covid and pleading with that same government to help with his state's covid crisis. "velshi" starts now. good morning. it's sunday, january the 2nd. i'm andy husseiilling in for my friend, velshi. how do you cooperate with a federal investigation with officially investigating with a

federal investigation. well, do what bernie kerik is doing. back in january, the committee investigating the january 6th insurrection issued kerik a subpoena. at first, he said he would comply, but then he wanted an apology. fair enough. kerik has continued to place conditions on his cooperation with the investigation. this weekend, he handed over some documents while withholding others that his lawyer claims kerik is prohibited from disclosing. the documents he withheld are cataloged in a so-called privilege log, a spreadsheet that lists and describes the records he refuses to hand over because donald trump presumably claims to pertain executive privilege over them. one document is described as draft letter from potus to seize evidence in the interest of national security for the 2020 elections. yeah. totally normal stuff. i draft a letter like that at least once a day. in all seriousness, though, at the very least, that sounds like it would be relevant to an investigation into an attempt to

overthrow the results of a presidential election. one document that kerik did hand over is titled, strategic communications plan. giuliani presidential legal defense team. it's a 22-page action plan to pressure republicans to delay the certification of the 2020 presidential election, that includes many dubious and debunked claims about election fraud. look, this is just a small reminder of the time, the effort, the coordination that republicans devoted to trying to disrupt democracy. and one more thing about bernie kerik and his cooperative noncooperation. although he initially said that he would supply with the subpoena, he spent weeks negotiating for a voluntary interview or a public hearing, unlike others subpoenaed by the january 6th committee, it appears that kerik is trying to avoid sitting down for a deposition, during which he would have to answer questions under oath. this might be a good time to remind people that bernie kerik has a history of making false statements to federal government officials. in 2010, he served four years in

prison after pleading guilty to eight felony charges, including tax fraud and lying the white house officials. a decade later, his old pal from new york city, donald trump, granted him a full pardon for those crimes. this is the tangled web that donald trump and his associates have woven. kerik's cautious negotiations with the committee, however, might be a sign that fear is setting in as the investigation closes in on the trump inner circle. after all, the january 6th committee has shown it's not playing around. it's already referred former trump aide steve bannon and mark meadows to the justice department for criminal contempt over their failures to comply. and as the holiday break draws to a close and the investigation undoubtedly ramps up again, this new year might have some rude awakenings in store for donald trump and his cronies. i'm joined now to talk more about all of this by kyle cheney, legal affairs reporter for politico, who broke this news story. kyle, good morning, happy new year. one of your latest articles that we just discussed digs into

kerik's latest maneuvers in dealing with the 1/6 committee. what is this particular trump ally trying to accomplish with his, shall we call it, half-hearted cooperation with the committee. >> so my read of it, actually is, he -- it packages a lot of genuine cooperation, where he's actually provided, as you pointed out, this very substantiative document an their strategic communications plan in the ten-day blitz before january 6th, talked about which partners they were working with, put a lot of names in there. that's stuff the committee is going to find extremely useful. and even though this privilege log is not providing everything, the fact that he itemized what he was providing and gave you the titles, including that very intriguing document, the potus draft letter on seizing national security information, that's going to be a whole new set of paths for the committee to go down, potentially, and so while they may not be fully satisfied with everything he's doing, this is more than a lot of other trump allies have done. and so i think they'll take this

over the outright, you know, stonewalling by steve bannon, and in some cases, mark meadows, because i think this is going to give them a bunch of new trails to pursue. >> we've heard a lot about bannon and meadows. we've heard about members of congress, like scott perry and jim jordan. until relatively recently, nobody was really talking about bernie kerik, even though he's a very close ally of giuliani and trump. he clearly wants some kind of public hearing. what do you think he wants to do, and what do you think the committee wants out of him? >> we, he seems to be trying to walk a fine line of saying, i'm cooperating, don't hold me in contempt, i'm doing what i feed to do in response to your subpoena. but also, i'm still on team trump. i'm still a loyal figure. all the letters to the committee have been, you know, just absolutely packed with these claims that, you know, we found real evidence of fraud. we found it, so if you have me testify, i'm going to show you that the election really was

questionable. and so he's saying what he thinks trump may want to hear in the letters. but then the material he's providing is actually substantiative in a way that the committee is more interested in. >> kyle, do you feel like weed in media need to be a little reporting when reporting on the 1/6 committee, because there's a lot of expectation, we're talking about the new year and new hearings and new evidence. we know they've taken action against meadows and bannon, to be fair. but of course, we had the inquiry where a lot of democrats, a lot of liberals, a lot of people in the media every week thought, this is it! they're closing in. and the trump people basically walked away unscathed. >> well, you know, i think that's fair. i think, you know, expectations are setting is extremely important here. i think the committee has actually built up those expectations. talked about the absolute mountains of evidence they've been compiling and they've been so secretive, even more so in some ways than mueller was. there were little drips coming up of the mueller inquiry all throughout.

they've really kept a lid on almost everything they've obtained so far. and the biggest thing will be, what does the supreme court do in this lawsuit that trump has taken to try to politic his white house records from coming out. if the question gets its hands on those records, it's a whole different ball game. and they may have even more than what they've already claimed to have gotten. so expectations are high, because they set them there, and they could go even higher. >> one last question, kyle. i want to call attention to another great piece of reporting from you this weekend about, quote, efforts to trump-proof presidential election certification. catches up on congressional efforts to make sure what happened last year can't ever happen again. it centers around the electoral count act of, what was it, 1887? >> that's right. that's right. andion, this is a very -- when it got to the end of trump, what trump was trying to do when he realized that he wasn't going to be able to win in the courts, it became all about january 6th. that's why that date was in focus. that's when congress has to meet the certify the january 6th

committee. and that's governed by the electoral count act. and it sets out the process where the vice president resigns and how lawmakers can challenge some of the results. and so this has become a focus of the committee to try to reform that law to prevent these sort of ambiguities and sort of exploitation of loopholes to allow, you know, someone like mike pence, for example, to unilaterally try to overturn the election. pence didn't try to do that, but trump was pressuring him to do that. what i wrote about is how reforming that law might be harder than it seems, because it's built on this 134-year-old law that has some questions about the constitutionality. it's a little bit more complex than i think they would like it to be. >> once again, another part of american democracy in our political system that needs to be fixed asap. kyle cheney, thank you for your time this morning. thank you for your reporting. appreciate it. >> thanks. here with me now is the democratic congresswoman from michigan, debbie dengal.

let's talk 1/6. among the things that bernie kerik recently handed over is a document called strategic communications plan, that lace out a strategy to pressure elected republicans to delay certifying the 2020 election results. it also mentions the usual false claims of election fraud in swing states, including your home state of michigan. you're a member of congress. were you aware of the existence of strategy plans like this? and how significant do you think they were? >> good morning. happy new year to you and i hope it's going to be a happy, healthy, safe one for everybody. you know, michigan [ inaudible ] and a lot of people didn't believe me. so if you were paying attention, the second election around for donald trump, there was a lot of pressure being put on our state

legislators, if you recall. the president called into the white house and tried to put pressure on them to undermine people's confidence in the election. i want to praise the republican leaders of the state legislature, who would not let that happen. we had republican clerks who were having pressure put on them about what the outcome of their elections were. and they stood by the integrity of their election. i think there are so many different feelings that i have, both leading into 1/6, but the biggest is, and the work continues to undermine people's confidence in the outcome of elections. and i think this is very critical that we not allow people to believe that the outcome of their elections are not credible. that they're not full of integrity. because when people don't have that confidence, our democracy, the very foundations of our democracy are being threatened. it is very clear that that is what president trump was trying

to do. did i expect the kind of violence that we saw on january 6th? did i think that people were going to come to the capitol with the intent to kill? no. and i still to this day cannot believe that that happened in this country. but you look at these pictures, you're showing right now, it did happen and all of us, we're americans first, need to worry about what we've been witnessing this last year. >> congresswoman, you've dealt with your fair share of extremist republican craziness. back in september, you got into a heated argument with congresswoman marjorie taylor greene on the capitol steps. let's have a listen. >> to say that marjorie taylor greene doesn't say unhinged

things is an understatement. a lot of your congressional colleagues have felt threatened by her. she's now talking about a national divorce, aka, secession of civil war. i wonder, your colleague from new york, congressman jamal bowman and others, have called for her to be expelled from congress under section 3 of the 14th amendment that deals with elected members of congress who support insurrection or treason or et cetera. what do you think should be done about marjorie taylor greene. she's not your ordinary republican, even by ordinary, crazy, republican standards? >> you know, that day was a day that i -- she was trying to disrupt a press conference that nancy pelosi was trying to have. and i believe we treat each other with dignity and respect and her lack of civility on any given day is obviously very disturbing. what she said the week, if someone moves from one state to another and that state happens to have voted for a democratic president, they need to have a cooling off period and they shouldn't be allowed to vote,

hey, we are talking about the united states of america. we are talking about really paychecks freedoms that we are taught in school and we take for granted. and my call to everybody today is she is an example of why we can't take our freedoms for granted anymore. that basic, that right -- >> but what should be done about her congresswoman? >> -- the fundamental backbone of our democracy is freedom of speech, freedom of religion, it's all in danger with people like her. i choose to believe that the vast majority of americans are not like her, but don't understand what is happening. >> but would you support calls to have her expelled from congress? >> i don't know. i think that one of the things that i try to be very careful of, you talk about, i think it's very important we have the facts. that we not get out in front of the facts when we talk about the january 6th commission. i'm deeply disturbed by what she

does every day, but the grounds for expulsion need to be detailed, we need to have a very serious look at it. and i will always be cautious before i call for that kind of action. but i'm not afraid to be tough, either. and if she has done things that call for that, i would not be afraid to vote for her. >> congresswoman, one last quick question, i have to ask, we're a year out from january the 6th and the democrats have not passed a single voting rights bill, haven't had it signed by the president. i know the house has passed bills, but they have died in the senate. isn't that the scandal? >> i think that the senate has got to get a backbone here and figure out how they're going to get it passed. because what we are witnesses with republicans is trying to undermine democracy in this country and we need to protect every person's voting rights, by the way, every person's. in michigan, they're trying to attack seniors' voting rights and tell them that their vote

doesn't count if they're on an absentee ballot's list until you go into the clerk's office and show your voter i.d., which you did to get on that list to begin with. i hope we're going to do something about it early in this new year, because i believe we have to protect our democracy. >> i hope your colleagues -- i hope your colleagues in the senate are listening, congresswoman. we're out of time, but i hope your colleagues in the senate are listening to you this morning. congresswoman debbie dingell from michigan, thank you so much for your time. >> thank yo 2022 is beginning to look a lot more like 2020, with the record number of covid cases being reported, but not thankfully the same level of deaths so far. what's president biden's plan when it comes to testing them? we'll ask a former member of the biden/harris transition covid advisory board if the administration was prepared for omicron as it should have been. speaking of those who didn't do enough to stop the spread of coronavirus, take texas governor greg abbott.

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devastated colorado residents are still searching for answers this morning as authorities launch an investigation into the cause of a massive wildfire that ripped through multiple neighborhoods this week, destroying roughly a thousand homes. authorities in boulder county initially suggested that the blaze may have been sparked by power lines downed by wind, but utility line xl energy reports that none of his power lines in the area were impacted, throwing that explanation into question. authorities say they are pursuing multiple tips and have executed a search warrant at one specific location. joining me now is emilie ikeda in lewisville, colorado. what else do we know about the

investigation? >> reporter: hey, there, still a lot of unanswered questions at this point, perhaps no one waiting more so with bated breath than the families of the three people who are missing. and really just a sobering development, taking a turn this weekend. authorities say they believe these search missions will turn into recovery missions, announcing they're going to be releasing cadaver dogs at some point this morning. and you can imagine how complicated this process is. not only are authorities having to parse through rubble, now they're having to deal with hot spots. >> we currently have three reported missing people. two in the area of superior, and one in the marshall area. we unfortunately believe these are going to turn into recovery cases. we're calling in cadaver dogs and search teams to help us with

an effort tomorrow. the structures where these folks would be are completely destroyed and covered with about 8 inches of snow right now. so our ability to attempt to search and recover from those structures is very much impeded right now. >> reporter: the latest update, the fire is more than 60% contained, which is really quite significant. authorities crediting largely the snow for help tame the fire, but you can see these red and blue lights behind me. crews work around the clock as they continue to try to keep an eye and monitor on any hot spots or flare-ups. actually, despite the snow, we can still smell smoke. it's very poignant in the air. we're starting to see residents return to their homes, come face-to-face with the harsh reality that there's no home to come home to, following the holidays' nearly 1,000 homes, i should say, completely devastated. and another 127 damaged. just an immense told.

>> it is, indeed, an immense toll. emilie, thank you so much for your reporting and stay safe. as classes are set to resume tomorrow amid a record holiday covid surge, some holidays are pushing for a test-to-stay in-person policy. but the testing situation across the country right now is not where it should be. we'll find out what's being done and what isn't being done, next. e and what isn't being done, next. that was in these clothes... ugh. but the clothes washed in tide- so much cleaner. if it's got to be clean it's got to be tide hygienic clean. (vo) the more we do with our phones, the more network quality and reliability matter. and only verizon has been the most awarded for network

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putting a strain on testing capabilities, the long lines in public, it is a multi-faceted failure and there's plenty of blame to go around. a recent fda test required that a molecular test were causing false negative results in late december. the test was modified, but the damage had been done. there was a recent "new york times" report that revealed cdc tests were not only contaminated, but also poorly designed back in early 2020 at the start of the pandemic. and then there's reporting from "vanity fair" that back in the fall, the biden administration rejected a proposal to ramp up access to free testing ahead of the holidays, because the white house wanted to focus instead on vaccinations. look, i just cannot believe that almost two years into this pandemic and two administrations in, the richest nation in the history of the world still hasn't nailed down something as basic and as crucial as testing. joining us now is dr. celine gounder, epidemiologist and infectious disease analyst at

bellevue hospital, a former member of the biden/harris transition covid advisory board. celine, thank you so much for coming back on the show. as we just mentioned, you were a biden transition adviser. from your vantage point, what has gone wrong with the testing process on joe biden's watch, from the federal level and what continues to be the problem? >> i think the problem here, it's not a partisan issue. it's really an american trait where we want these biomedical quick fixes, these silver bullets. and i think vaccines have been seen as such, that they would bring an end to the pandemic very quickly. i think what was underestimated was that there would be a lot of resistance in certain quarters to getting vaccinated. we are still just over 60% fully vaccinated in this country. and until you reach much higher vaccination rates, you really do need to layer other interventions. just like in a forest fire, it's not just about spraying water. you also have to be clearing brush and so on that might be in the path of the fire.

similarly here in a pandemic, until you hit those high vaccination rates, you really need to layer things like masking, circulation, air filtration, and of course, testing. >> and do you think it was a mistake if this "vanity fair" reporting to be believed for the biden administration to treat it as something separate of their overall strategy. the fact that, we're focused on overall vaccinations. can't you walk and chew gum at the same time? can't you do vaccinations and testing? >> that's been the theme of the pandemic. can't you walk and chew gum at the same time. there are so many other things we need to be focused on, of course, vaccination is important. but we also need to be testing, in the meantime. we need a way of identifying who is infectious, who needs to be isolated, who should not be at school or at work, because they are a danger to others. many of us have been advocating really for over a year for massive ramp-up of testing. other countries have done this. part of the strategy in the uk, for example, was placing

large-volume orders, which creates stability and demand for manufacturers and also brings down the cost. and we should be employing similar approaches here. >> i was just in the uk over christmas and the number of family and friends who i saw, who have stockpiled free tests from the government that you can just get in the mail. apparently we can't do that here. on new year's day, the president was trying to offer up an inspirational message to americans. have a listen. >> we learned again this year what we've always known, there's no quit in america. no matter how tough the challenge, how high the obstacles, we always overcome. this virus has been tough, but we've been tougher. >> it's a nice line, celine, but have we been tougher? have we gone far enough? there's still no vaccine mandate for domestic air travel in the middle of the holidays, for example. >> i think there is some reconsideration of those kinds of roirms for domestic travel, at least in some quarters.

i would not say that is an administration opinion or policy by any means at this stage. but it is a much more complicated task than employer-related requirements, because you need a system to efficiently and with privacy protected, have a way of verifying people's vaccination status. and from the beginning of the pandemic, there was pushback against vaccine credentialing or verification systems, which some have called are vaccine passports, because they are not, because these are not alternative forms of identification. but without a system like that that allows quick assessment of if somebody is vaccinated or not, those tsa lines could get a lot longer. and i don't think anyone wants to see that. >> while i was in england, i met a friend of mine from australia which is called their vaccine card, or passport, i showed him

my weird little paper cdc card. very odd comparison. one last quick question. boosters, you and i were speaking many times on-air. and you were skeptical about the need for universal boosters. have you changed your mind about that given what we're learning about waning immunity from two must have shot vaccines, all the studies suggesting you knee tleed shots to fight off this new omicron variant. >> we do need an additional dose. there are different reasons we give boosters. you have waning immunity, which to be clear, we still have not seen real waning immunity against severe disease, hospitalization, and death, with the exception of very specific populations. the elderly, the immunocompromised, so i think it really also depend on how much the virus mutates and that's what we saw with omicron. >> we'll have to leave it there, dr. celine gounder, thank you as always for your analysis, appreciate it. next, texas governor greg abbott is fighting against measures to curb covid outbreaks

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testing sites in parts of his state and for new shipments of monoclonal antibody treatments. the entire country is dealing with a testing fiasco, so the need for more covid tests is expected, understandable, even. but it's kind of ironic for texas to be making the ask for help against covid, given the small detail that governor abbott is currently suing the biden administration in court to stop covid vaccine and mask requirements in his state. so let me get this straight, governor. you're taking the federal government to court with multiple lawsuits, mind you, to try to stop life-saving measures that would have reduced covid cases, hospitalizations, and the need for monoclonal antibody treatment in your state. and now you're surprised that there's an increase in covid cases, hospitalizations, and the need for monoclonal antibody treatment in your state. seriously? i wish i could say i'm surprised, but nothing is going to shock me 2022. certainly not in relation to the reckless, almost sociopathic

behavior of so many republican governors when it comes to covid. texas gop leadership in particular bungled their state's coronavirus response from the very beginning. and now texas is buckling under the weight of this omicron-fueled wave, just as badly if not worse than the rest of the country. remember, more texans died of covid in 2021 than in the first year of the pandemic, despite free vaccines being available to all adults since march. right now, just under 57% of the texan population is fully vaccinated, putting texas in the back half of the 50 states, when ranked by vaccination rates. governor abbott rarely goes out of his way to promote vaccinations, and has been virtually silent on the booster despite getting a booster himself quite early on. but now, now the great right-wing republican governor wants a federal government bailout. i would laugh, if it wasn't so

tragic. president biden will speak with the ukrainian president today after biden urged russian president vladimir putin to back off his military presence on ukraine's border. that is coming up next. we have a live update for you. p. into your multivitamin? at new chapter, its' innovation, organic ingredients, and fermentation. fermentation? yes. formulated to help you body really truly absorb the natural goodness. new chapter. wellness, well done.

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just hours from now, president biden is set to speak by phone by ukrainian president vladimir zelensky, reaffirming the country's support for the country's sovereignty. amid growing tensions with its border with russia. it comes on the heels of thursday's phone call with biden and vladimir putin. both leaders exchanged warnings over the crisis unfolding in ukraine, with biden urging putin to de-escalate tensions or face potential sanctions, should he proceed with an invasion. the kremlin insisting that putin used the call to issue a threat of his own, saying that any new

sanctions could result in a complete corruption of powers. russia has amassed nearly 100,000 troops along the ukrainian border, earlier this week, russia announced it would withdrawal 10,000 troops back to their regular barracks, but u.s. officials have suggested that move does not amount to a major de-escalation. let's go now to nbc's ali aruezi in london. what can we expect from today's phone call between biden and zelensky? >> happy new year. i think we can expect biden to give zelensky assurances that the united states, that nato, that european countries have ukraine's back and they're not going to let russia call the shots in an independent country. he's also going to brief him on the telephone call he had with president putin. he's going to tell him that he presented putin with two choices. two paths. and that is the first one is that if you invade ukraine,

there will be serious consequences. there will be very harsh economic sanctions on russia, targeting a broad sector of russia's economy. much harsher sanctions than the ones that were imposed in 2014 after the first invasion. he'll tell him that he will give ukraine weapons, aid, intelligence. anything they need to defend themselves, should russia attack them and he will tell him that he warned putin that nato will expand eastward and strengthen to create a buffer against russian intelligence. but he will also have told him that he presented putin with a second choice. that is, de-escalate. pull your troops back and a serious conversation can be had about russian security, about european security, and about putin's concerns. and i'm sure zelensky will be very happy to hear all of this, but he's probably not feeling entirely confident right now, because the fact of the matter is, nothing has changed. there are still 100,000 russian

troops on a very, very volatile flashpoint border. and somewhere in zelensky's mind has got to be the truth of the matter, if talks between the united states and russia break down on january the 10th and the united states decides to impose sanctions on russia and russia suddenly feels it has nothing to lose and decides it's going tiny to invade ukraine, the ukrainians will pretty much be on their own. because nato and the u.s. have said that they have no appetite to put troops on the ground and get involved in a war with russia. and it's going to be very hard for the ukrainians to defend themselves without the help of any other military force on the ground with them against the full might of the russian army. >> you mentioned european security. you're in london. what do the brits, the french, the germans make of biden's approach to putin and russia? do they think he's doing enough?

do they think he's doing too much? >> well, st a mixed bag of opinions on how biden approaches it. some people say this is the right approach. it's this dual track of deterrence and talk that he has with the russians is the only way right now, because a full-scale invasion of ukraine will be utterly disastrous for european security and the ramifications would be unfolding for years, if not decades to come. but others say that he's not doing enough. that there have been several points during these tensions, that he should have put sanctions on russia. and he didn't, and that would have sent a clear message to the russians. i mean, the russians know that very harsh economic sanctions are going to be very debilitating more their economy. and many here feel that that message hasn't been sent strongly enough. but the reality also is, mehdi, that a lot of countries here in europe done want to get into a

kinetic fight with russia. all of them are reaching out and trying to make relations a little better between the two. it's a very, very fine line that both sides have to walk. >> nbc's ali aruezi. we'll have to leave it there. thank you and happy new year to you. it's been almost a year since the january 6th attack on the capitol. so, question, is the biden justice department doing enough to hold the insurrectionists and their leaders accountable? and what should the doj be doing to support the congressional investigation, which could be upended if the republicans win back the house in this year's midterms? all of that is next, don't go away. midterms all of that is next, don't go away

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with xfinity xfi, it's all built in at no extra cost. we are four days away from the one-year anniversary of the january 6th insurrection, the now-notorious date in modern american history when a pro-trump mob invaded the capitol building and actively tried to overturn a democratic election. the department of justice has filed hundreds of charges against people involved in the attack, mostly rioters who actually breached the capitol. but the house january 6th committee has its sigts set on the bigger fish, people who may have played a role on enabling and inciting that insurrection, that includes perhaps members of congress, allies of the former failed president, and the former failed president himself. but as they zero in on trump and his inner circle, congressional investigators are running into allies of the disgraced former

president, who are refusing to cooperate. and they might need some help from the doj to help convince those folks to obey the law. last month, the house voted to refer former trump chief of staff mark meadows to the doj for criminal contempt charges, following their similar referral of steve bannon earlier, over meadows' refusal to also answer questions about january the 6th. so how hands-on is the doj willing to be when it comes to investigating january 6th all the way to the top? our tougher prosecutor, is attorney general merrick garland willing to be when it's a former president of the united states on the other side. joining me now is david road, executive editor of newyorker.com and an msnbc contributor. david, good morning. happy new year, the new doj seems to be purposefully distant on a lot of this january the 6th stuff, perhaps in the hopes of seeming perhaps more neutral, more apolitical in the wake of the overtly political trump

justice department. do you see things changing at the doj in the coming weeks? >> i don't see things changing. what you just mentioned, not being overtly political and being seen as neutral is the biggest goal of attorney general merrick garland. i think there is a way for the justice department to carry out this investigation. they have been very aggressive. the federal prosecutor's office in washington is carrying out the largest federal criminal investigation in u.s. history. hundreds of people involved in the attack on the capitol are under investigation or under prosecution and you're right, the big question is, is donald trump. and my sense from talking to people on the january 6th committee and also at the justice department is that it would take the proverbial smoking gun, an incredibly strong piece of evidence that directly involves president trump in obstructing congress from certifying, you know, the 2020 election for them to put him on trial, and just, the last thing here, what legal experts warn about is, what if you do

put trump on trial? what if, you know, this is an unprecedented -- you know, you can only imagine the amount of attention politically it will get in the news media, but what if he's put on trial and he's acquitted? and i think that's one of the concerns that garland is weighing. the other side is that he essentially gets away with trying to obstruct an election. >> it's a good point you make about potential acquittal and the impact of that. putting 1/6 to one side, because you are talking in the context of, can you try to sur role in the insurrection that merrick garland hasn't done enough to hold donald trump and his inner circle to account for numerous other alleged crimes, non1/6 related. for example, obstruction of justice during the mueller inquiry. ten examples in the mueller report. financial crimes. is that fair? is it fair to criticize garland for not going after trump for

other things. there's no special prosecutor or special counsel. is garland the right man, the right ag for this pretty historic moment? >> it depends on your view of what the justice department should do. i don't see merrick garland trying donald trump for other crimes, for financial crimes. you know, the mueller investigation, mueller famously no made decision on obstruction of justice. so i'll just be honest, i don't see that happening. i think this is the most important issue of merrick garland's tenure. he is an institutionalist. he believes that the justice department should prosecute people equally based on the facts. that might not apply in this political atmosphere. i talked to again to one of his aides and they said, you won't see merrick garland becoming a performtive attorney general. he doesn't give many speeches or go out there and talk much to the public. and the question is, does that work in this political era.

you have a false narrative being put out by a former president that the 2020 election was stolen and does the justice department need to confront him with his personal role in that? again, i just want to be frank, i don't see any chance of garland prosecuting trump for crimes that happened earlier than january 6th. and i would only see, you know, very clear, you know, evidence, for january 6th itself. >> i agree with you. i don't see that happening either, sadly. my question is, should it happen and why is it happening? i think there might be a contradiction between a doj that says it wants to treat everyone equally, but then saying, it's kind of hard to prosecute a former president. that's putting a former president above others. david, if your latest piece for the new yorker, you write, a congressional staffer who asked not to be named said that meadows' initial conversation with the investigation and he got buyer's remorse. he put himself in a difficult position. what does that mean for meadows

going forward. we know bannon is getting a trial this summer. what happens to meadows? >> this is where the justice department can act aggressively and garland can act aggressively. there can be a trial for meadows. these aren't very complicated questions. they were asked to cooperate, they're both refusing to do so. and the clock is ticking. clearly, the strategy is to run out the clock. the republicans hope to regain control of the house can dissolve this committee. where garland can act aggressively is to proceed with the criminal prosecution of meadows. you know, flynn is also fighting -- refusing to cooperate with the committee. so that would help produce the facts that the committee needs. and the biggest issue here is, there has to be election reform, just a separate point. kyrsten sinema has been hesitant on this, that the senate needs to pass new laws that would make it harder to steal an election. >> oh, yes, it does. that is -- that is something that i'll be talking about in the next hour, that we've been talking about nonstop on this show and elsewhere.

we'll have to leave it there. david road, thank you so much for your analysis and your reporting. appreciate it. stick around. we have much more to come in the second hour of "velshi," from how we landed in this covid testing debacle that we currently find ourselves in, to an escalation in extremism coming from republicans in congress. and the best stories you may not have heard about senator harry reid, a man who, yes, cared deeply and accomplished much, but also hung up on the president. another hour of "velshi" starts now. good morning. it's 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. i'm mehdi hussein in for "velshi." the omicron variant is fueling a relentless strike in new covid cases. on new year's day, there were just over 161,000 reported cases, likely down to the holidays, but