us and my gratitude that america remains tonight a democracy, imperfect though it is. on behalf pof all of my colleagues at the networks of nbc news, good night. ♪♪ thanks for joining, us this hour. the chief federal judge in the district court in washington d.c., made a ruling, tonight. concerning one of the defendants who is facing felony criminal charges in his alleged role and the january 6th attack, on the u.s. capitol, a year ago today. the judge handed down her ruling, tonight, in the formal was calling mid-order, which means it's short. in this case, a short like poetry is short. it's short like, i think i might commit this to memory, and saying to myself in the shower, one day.

minute order. as to defendant, anthony robert williams, de nine defense motion to travel. defendant, while on patrol release and facial charges including serious felony, offense stemming from his alleged rapunzel january six 2021, which is to leave the michigan winter to spend ten days in the warmer climbs of jamaica, to meet the family of a woman with whom the defendant has been in a committed relationship for, quote, more than a year. footnote in the mid order indicates that more than a year has a quote from what he said about himself in the motion where he asked for permission to travel to jamaica. more than a year. the judge continues, quote, although such a meeting might be an important step in the defendants personal relationship, defended surrendered his entitlement to unfettered international travel when also more than a year ago he in --

2021 he follow-through, by joining a mob at the capitol, that in his words, took that building. an event he allegedly viewed as the powders day of his life. this court will not commemorate the one year anniversary of this attack on the capitol by granting defendants request for nonessential foreign travel, while he is awaiting judgment for his actions on that day. in other words, no you cannot go to the jamaica, signed the chief judge of federal district court in washington d.c.. so, no, that particular genesis defendant who is facing at least one felony charge that could get him 28 years in prison, there he is, for his role in the trump supporters mob on the capitol, know the court is not giving him special permission to spend ten days in jamaica. although, i'm sure it's lovely there, this time of year.

that is the very brief, very memorable order handed down tonight, in federal district court, in washington d.c.. you know, i used to have this sort of pat answer i would give when people asked me about times that were particularly bleak, for our country, in terms of politics. when something unusually bad would happen, when politics would sing to some new low -- if anybody asked me about how bad things had become, for a long time, i regret this now, i had this go to, glib response, or i'd say, some version of, hey, listen we, always think it's the worst it's been, members of congress aren't necessarily beating themselves with chains on the floor of the senate adding more, it's been worse. i used to say that all the time. the point of that, i believe, it's still the sand. however bad we think things are.

we are a country that has civil war, where we, americans, masses opposing armies and killed hundreds and thousands of each other. we're a country that spent hundreds of years enslaving people,. we have been through the bottom lines, absolutely. and, no, as bad as things get in washington, as badly as they degrade, even in congress, we are not seeing these days, -- with a cane on the senate floor. that happened on may 22nd, 1856. senator charles, he was a radical republican, radically opposed to slavery, leader of the abolition voices of the senate. senator was sitting at his desk in the senate chamber, alone. he was writing, the chamber was almost empty, nobody in the gallery. and three southern pro slavery

congressman came into the chamber, looking for him. two of them were to keep any observers from being able to help out or interfering. the other one, without warning, just artist smashing senator summer over the head with the heavy, metal end of his cain. it was to south carolina congressman, and one virginia congressman. one of the to south carolina congressman, who actually wilted the cane, he kept up that beating for so long, so relentlessly, again, with this friend stopping people from intervening -- he used a weapon against unarmed senator, to the point where he very nearly beat the senator to death. senator sumner did survive, but barely. it took three years before he was able to come back to the united states senate. that was something serious and

terrible enough, even more than 160 years later, that it is nothing to be short about. even to make another was valid point. today, one of the things that happened at the capitol, to commemorate the january 6th attack last year, is that the house hosted the library of congress, you see on your left, and two very famous historians. to talk about the history of what happened on january 6th. how to make sure history gets preserved, how to make sure that attack it's told, for the purpose of history. how to make sure gets told accurately, for history. -- she brought up the canning of cane-ing of senator shelley moore, and the man who very nearly killed. and she brought it up in a way that surprised me.

she brought it up, because of the unique resonance of that violence, that famous back to violence, having happened inside the capitol. that happened inside congress. the way the violence happened inside congress, on january 6th. we have had a lot of violence, in this country, a lot of political violence. but, inside the congress, inside the capitol? that resonates in a different way, in this country. just watch this. watch what goodwin says. >> -- i think the chilling thing about 1850s, when i think about the attack on senator sumner, anti slavery says -- the south carolinian congressman. it happened in the senate, and because of that it touched, as one historian, said it was the heart and minds of the american people, it hit home. there was a sense in which, for

a while, more people join the republican party -- abraham lincoln jointed after that. moderates and conservatives realize they had to lead the party structure behind, the weak party collapsed. i thought that was going to happen that -- align had been drawn, january 6th. that way sometimes, events just touch you, and there's a fundamental sense on the part of the people that something had to change. and we've got abraham lincoln out of that. the sad, scary part of the 1850s, preston brooks became a hero, in the south. the government presented him with a silver goblet. people running around with canes, wanting to get other members of the anti slavery movement next. it was part that partisanship of the 1850s, where you had alternative realities. indeed, one historian said, when you saw that event, who sought to alternative narratives, that's when you knew that something was happening to the country. there is a sense that there was a partisan press, in the 1850s.

when lincoln would be in his debates with stephen douglas, and the republican paper would be reporting on the very same debate, that the democratic party would be reporting on, when they report on the lincoln part of it, they say he was so triumphant he, was carrying doubt on this arms of his supporters. on the republican paper, it was that it was embarrassing -- we have some of those pearls are from the 1850s, the only hope is -- you're right it ended badly, obviously it ended badly with the seven war -- but out of that came would had to be done, which was to undo that original sin of slavery. those people fought for that. we had a leader in abraham, linking who carried us through that. we have to remember, some of these fights have to be fought, but hopefully, it doesn't have to end up that way. we know the mistakes we made in the 1850s. >> will know the mistakes we made -- doris currents goodwin speaking today, at the capitol.

she, and john meacham, fellow esteemed historian, and librarian of congress, lead this is garden, for members of congress, on how to get the history right, on what happened on january 6th. talking about the attack on charles sumner, back in the 1850s. it happened inside congress, on the floor of the senate. talking about how that fact of it grabbed americans by the proverbial throat, it was a galvanizing thing. it was hoarding. the barbarity of that attack, inside the congress drove americans to take a clearer side against that, than they were previously ready to take. in that sense, it is, it is part of the story of how we get the leadership of abraham lincoln, and ultimately the emancipation of slavery. that act of violence, that horrific act of violence, in congress, in the capital,

galvanizes the country, starts turning history into what ultimately and slavery. because, it's so horrifying. and, but, also, on earth to, also here in america, the pro slavery guy gets treated as such a hero, they literally bought a new canes. and then send them to him, to replace the one that he shattered on the scale of that senator. the pieces of the broken came that he used to beat senator sumner, was treated like a religious relic. people wore pieces of it. , as talismans. the newspapers in the south, deal fired him, for nearly murdering the senator that day, they openly wished that senator summiteer would've been further hurt. the job could've been finished. that was also the reaction in america. that was 1856. by 1861, america was formally divided into two armed factions,

and we started killing each other by the hundreds of thousands. tonight, there was a prayer vigil on the steps of the u.s. capitol. my camera all prayer vigil, four senators and members of the house. dozens of senators and members of the house gave four speeches today, about the attack and about the need to preserve our democracy, in the face of the movement that was behind the attack, that would undo our democracy, by force. the right wing movement that precipitated the attack on january six the year ago, still hoard sway in the republican party, and is our lucky working on the undoing of the next election. members of congress and senators, today, all day today, invade against that. president biden gave a fierce, intense speech today, in which he said the capitol attack a year ago, was a dagger at the throat, of democracy. it was also a bit of a

collective shudder across the country, when politico.com was the first to report, that at the time, the comparable, pipe bomb was found just outside democratic party headquarters last year. vice president elect, kamala harris, was inside the building. they found the bomb there. that is something that the we did not know before today. and ways, good and bad, and uplifting, and somber, and prayerful, and angry, and scared. all these ways today, there was kind of a unified earth one response. you know, boy what happened a year ago today was terrible, how do we make sure we don't do that again? but then, also today, there is hills ill county michigan, where today, the hills dill county republican party, is hosting a fund-raiser. calling it the insurrection

anniversary fund-raiser. explanation point included. the insurrection -- will be provided. that she spoke with the hills though michigan republican party, tonight. they said they have had to change their plans for this event a little bit, they were planning on have one of the january 6th rioters zoom in to participate in the event. have him join, presumably to give everybody a bit of a lift. unfortunately, he is facing criminal charges, due to his participation, at the last minute, they said he decided that he shouldn't be the guest of honor at this republican party fund-raiser. not at least until he's been sentenced, just got to wait until the sentence. but, maybe they'll have another insurrection anniversary, celebratory fund-raiser next year. and he'll be available then. it does seem prudent for him to wait, and find out on his prison time. that was today, too. this was the state capital, in the great state of missouri

today. kind of a big crowd there. this is under the rotunda, you see all the chairs set up in rose. also,, as i mention this is also at the missouri state capital, under the rotunda, you can see's presentation of their -- can we see with the presentation is about -- how the 2020 election was stolen,, under the rotunda, at the, missouri state -- this event, today, at the missouri state, under the rotunda, was attendant by -- was formally introduced by republicans anniversary today by both the floor and the house and the floor of the senate. that was the commemoration today on the january 6th attack

by the state capital. that's how they commemorated it at the missouri state capital. missouri republicans convening underneath the rotunda to give the presentation on how the election was stolen. after the violent at the capitol just one year ago data. depending on where you look, it's feels like a unified response. but we are different than what we were in 1856. like an 1856 we were an earth one where was galvanizing wake up call against the horror. we also have an earth to. where were not all that horrified by what happened to senator charles. we are happy that president brooks gave him that beating. today on capitol hill, the only republicans who took part in the house commemoration of the january 6th attack where the two uc, spot shadowed in the front row on the republican side of the aisle, there's two of them. only one of them is a member of congress. that is republican

congresswoman liz cheney. and the other republican in the room, in the house chamber today, is her dad who she brought with her. former vice president dick cheney. those were the only two republicans who showed up today to commemorate the attack in the house. the only house republican event related to the january 6th attack today was a press conference held by two pro trump republicans where they tried to propagate the block from the u2 commence conspiracy theory that there was no real attack on the capitol a year ago. it is all a hoax that was faked by the fbi. you know, just like 9/11 was an inside job and covid is a hoax to. incidently nbc news or to reporting tonight that according to a top u.s. intelligence official, they have been monitoring false flags by operations to amplify that january six was a false flag. it was really secretly the government that did it. just so they could blame it on trump supporters. hostile foreign powers have been amplifying that. presumably because they would love to run the skin of our democracy over that particular

cheese grater. they just have to tune into house republican press conferences to do it. even on this day of all these. and you know it's all happening at once. it is never just one thing at a time. i mean, also today, i looked at some of the press coverage and some of the photojournalism we've got in today from senator charles sumner's home state of massachusetts. this was north up the city hall steps today. across that turned out today on the anniversary of the january 6th attack to support democracy. to stand against political violence. this woman turned out in western massachusetts, in central massachusetts. she put the sign on the back of a rubber made been. but on her parka and her winter gloves and scarf, one 6:21. never forget. never going. it is never all just one thing.

and honestly that ruling from the d.c. district court tonight, dude you cannot go to jamaica, not today sir. that ruling from the chief judge in d.c. district court that was also something today. something, again, like i said, perhaps learned by hardening yourself. these things all happen at once. but the divide between the two sides of them feels, not just gaping but scary. i mean, doris kearns goodwin had a lot to say about violence and going insulation and radicalization. she had that to say today about heading up the possibility of a civil war. she meant it as a good news story, i know. that history is here to help. and we can and should learn from it. i know. but honestly looking at how this unfolded over the course of today, i am ready to hear from somebody who understands these things. how this ends well.

joining us now is presidential historian, pulitzer prize-winning author, doris kearns goodwin. her latest book is called leadership in turbulent time. miss goodwin, it's really great that you made time to be with us here tonight. thank you for making this time on this weekday. >> very glad to be with you rachel. >> let me ask if i misconstrued the point that you were making today. i tried to play it without interruption. without any internal ended so people get here at the way that you presented it. because it sort of knock me off my share a little bit. let me just ask if i interpreted that long or read it wrong. >> no, absolutely. i think what you saw in the 1850s and what you are seeing right now are alternative realities. right? one side in the north to seeing it as you said. what happened to some was a terrible event. they are seeing it as a glorious event. what we are seeing right now is an election that presumably they are claiming on one side was not that one was stolen,

and the truth is on the other side that it was won by biden. you've got alternative realities now about what the insurrection was. was it an interaction? i was it simply a bust of tourists running around. but i think that the most important thing to understand if we tried to pick out where can we go from here, which is i think what you wanted to talk about is when lincoln gets in an 1861. he said the central idea of the struggle they were fighting, the civil war had already started, was whether or not if a minority, and by that he meant to minority who lost an election, did not accept that they had lost an election and to decide that they are going to break from the union as they did to succeed from the union and democracy is an absurdity. it can't work. and what are we seeing right now but the minority that lost the election is claiming it wasn't lost. they are having state legislators now with the possibility to overturn the will of the people. they are having partisan people counting the votes instead of the non partisan volunteers. i think if lincoln were here,

now, he would say if that is true that democracy is an absurdity. so, what do we do? we go for voting rights. we have to protect it. it's the most important thing. as long as i've lived. it's the fight that i think it's the most important fight in my life. when i was involved as a young girl in the march on washington when i sat and listen to lyndon johnson's join congress of session speech. when he said bolton is not a partisan issue. it is not a northern issue, it's not a southern issue. let's just get the voting rights act of 65. it is not even a moral challenge because it is undeniably wrong to deny your fellow americans the right to vote. that is what's happening right now. and that is the fight we have to fight. that is the only answer to understanding these divisions that we have right now. >> doris, i was struck today when you said what you thought would happen after january six is that there would be a realignment. that there would be a recognition, such a widespread recognition about things having gone so wrong on one side of our politics that there would be a real alignment.

an ideological realignment of the parties, something, collapsing of the wing party and the rest of the republican. some analogy of. that at least there would be some other sort of change along those lines. and obviously, we haven't seen that but we have seen the right get weird. in terms of its devotion to its fellow presidential candidate who was not able to win a second term. the driving out of the public people who have a message about integrity and the unity to the constitution that would have a widespread appeal. there is a sort of schematic thing happening inside the right that doesn't look like a party realignment. but it does look like a structural change of some kind. i wondered if you see it that way and if that is something that you expect to continue to evolve? >> i think it's possible. i think what happened in january six was that it was enough of an emotional reaction that you heard mcconnell say that this was an attack that was provoked by the president.

you heard mccarthy say it was an undemocratic assault on the constitution. and you heard republicans who were breaking away at that point. and somehow, that image and that emotion was lost. and we have so many breaking news. and that's what happens today. things are lost. that is the hope of what january six and the commemoration today, i think, and the select committee can do. and if they could bring that story back so that there is a fundamental sense on the part of more people, i think they're out there the people who know was wrong. the people who know it happened. if they could fall on the dots of that story and stories are what produce a reaction. lincoln told so many stories. people used to say, why do you tell so many stories? he said because stories have a beginning middle an end. they have more of an emotional appeal than facts. so if that committee can produce a story now and bring it back to the american people in even greater detail than what we knew on january six, then you have to hope that that will affect more people. and maybe that gets them in the

republican party. and will begin to sims new formation. i guess has been a story and having lived through all of this you just have to hope that there is some hope from what happened. and we have seen it in the long run over and over again in american history. >> i think that that is a really, really important point. about the committee specifically. i think a lot of americans, particularly people who were horrified by what happened on january six. they are looking at the committee and connected to the justice department, is there going to be accountability? are people going to go to jail? are people going to get in trouble? are people going to repent? but as you point out the other part of it is not about the perpetrators and the way that they are treated. it is about correctly securing and telling the story of that day in a way that makes it clear to the american people so that we understand ourselves in a true well informed way. i can make good decisions about these kinds of problems in this kind of crisis moving forward. >> i mean, think about the isolation that we were facing

in the 1939 and 1940. and before pearl harbor, fdr was able to tell a story to the american people about why was important to support england that was standing alone against nazis in western europe. and he talks about -- lynn lays, he makes it even a metaphor in neighbor's house is on fire. you're gonna let them a host to save their house which will then save yours. so somehow, that is what a story does. i mean, our best leaders understood how to tell stories. and i think if this committee can tell in a compelling way they have the evidence, they have to just put it together so that the fair minded people, all you need is five or 10%. to change where they are now, that will make the other people say this is where the country is going. already a majority that believes that this was adventure action. there's a majority that believes the insurrection was one. but it's got to affect the party structure. and that is what i think where the hope is. that people will be influenced by something that is very untrue. you can't just repeal over and

over again. you can also repeat the truth over and over again and a compelling way. and then maybe that will battle the life that is out there. >> so sharp and so important. presidential historian and author, doris kearns goodwin. doris, as i said, it's a real pleasure to have you here. i know it's been a long a busy day here for you. thank you for being here tonight. >> i'm very glad, thank you for having me. >> much more ahead here tonight, stay with us. t, stay with us a cold is not just a cold. unlike other cold medicines, coricidin provides powerful cold relief without raising your blood pressure be there for life's best moments with coricidin. now in sugar free liquid. manhood looks different from guy to guy. but when yours bends in a different direction, you might feel bothered by it. so talk to a urologist. because a bend in your erection might be peyronie's disease or pd. it's a condition that involves a buildup of scar tissue. but, it's treatable. xiaflex is the only fda- approved nonsurgical treatment for appropriate adult men with peyronie's disease. along with daily penile stretching

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officer shouted, run, run, run. scrambled across the entire length of the gallery, crouching down, ducking down, under the railings. >> i am the woman in the red jacket, lying on the house floor -- the gallery floor. on my back, with my hands to my chest. that's my 15 minutes of fame. not the one i would've chosen for myself.

>> the fact that we can see those barricading the doors -- hoping that those doors would not yield. >> when i remember most is walking back onto the floor, into the chamber, that morning to complete our work. the morning when democracy prevailed. remember, reflect, recommit. >> members of the house of the representative speaking today, we're counting the moment, a year ago today, when the violent mob of trump supporters which the capitals. dozens of members of congress and senators spoke about that moment, today. it's also worth remembering -- those moments, those first moments, that those senators and members of congress we're talking about today, we're also documented by journalist in the room. that's part of why it's such a vivid part of our nation's history. speaking in the united states senate, today, new jersey

senator, cory booker. >> all allowing our retreat, and that ignominious moment. we saw officers injured. eventually walked, and worked my way to my office. i will be the rookie of this bulb it, as long as i live. i feel, not just my own pain, but i thought immediately of my dad. i felt the pain of my ancestors. when i turned on that screen, the very first thing i saw, was the confederate flag. that flag, in so many communities in this country, carried by clansmen. carried by those who took democratically elected officials, black's, in southern states, ripped them from their offices. drag judges into the streets, beat them, lynch them, that was their flag.

that is not about a day, this was not one day, it was not one moment. it's a part of our story. >> joining us now, new jersey senator, cory booker. booker, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you, rachel. good to be on with. you >> let me ask you, i feel like i turn to you often senator, and moments of -- where we need moral focus. what conversation do you hope we will be able to have, a year from now? on the second anniversary of the year attack, that we cannot have now. was sort of progress can we make is a country in the year ahead, given what's happened? >> let me first just really push the point, if we just see this it is like an isolated

incident -- forgetting that is the stream of our nation's history, were violent forces seeking to stop democracy, with authoritarians events are along part of our country's history. every step we shots take forward, has been met with violence. remember, the suffragettes, they were beaten, they were tortured. we talk about the efforts for voting rights. john lewis, the number of people who were beaten. those early elected officials, the first senator in the united states and it's that was black, was during reconstruction. that was met with violence. even now, since january 6th, the threats on -- the violent threats on officials of our country. for federal judges gone up threefold. for members of congress, it's kind of twofold. for election officials, independent election officials, reuters is documented hundreds and hundreds of violent threats.

you take a guy like al schmidt, republican from pennsylvania, who dare to say that the election was just unfair, threatened. they singled out his children, threatened to murder them. we have to understand that we are actually a unique an amazing country, but we see across the planet, from europe to south america, authoritarian forces pushing back on democracy. undermining democracy. democracy is on his retreat, from hungry to turkey. you see the forces of -- the demographic forces we saw pushing on democracy. the positive, rachel, is clear. every dark chapter of our history was an ignition point. can call to violence. he said what, we have to repent for is not the vitriolic words, it's the bad people -- the appalling silence and inaction of good people.

the hope i have, the story i have, as this threat continues and, you see it in so voter suppression, people trying to undermine fair and free democracy. what i hope now, this is a ignition point. that more people understand it's not just about pointing fingers of contempt at otherizing others, this is not about finding blame. this is about us, as americans, taking this moment, taking this day, not just commemorating, but recognizing it and accepting responsibility, that we have to make the change. >> in terms of the political nature of the violence that the country faced a year ago, i have found myself, struggling with whether or not that violence is political, or if it's the end of politics. you've talked about authoritarian movements, you see the portrait of gandhi

behind you, i know about your commitment to your -- spiritual commitment of nonviolence. when president biden, today, talked about a dagger being held to the throne of america, he was talking about people trying to achieve power, through force, rather than through politics. i find myself struggling with the kind of history that you've talked about. where our politics has often blood into violence. we are commitments to nonviolence have often been met with more violence. finding a way out of this does mean running from history, but also being able to name the moment we're in. whether this is not just about changing our form of government, but abandoning politics for something that's non political, and just about force. >> yeah, i think you're right. we need to name what's going on, right now. it's not over. last year, an event where they left the capitol -- it wasn't the end. there is a strong movement in

this country to undermine our democracy. it's perilous. whether it's taking away independent elect -- which electors you sent to state, away from non partisan individuals, like georgia. putting it back in partisan legislator. so, when the president causes ply, and independent election official, and tries to pressure them, we see how many of my colleagues and others have been fold into that pressure. that's about undermining our democracy. the racial moves or clear. how can we have a nation, i really had a naivete as a child, listen to the stories of my parents about the fear and the violence around trying to vote -- about the two different voting to systems. we now live in a country were productive minutely black -- the way to vote -- in predominantly black communities is documented by reuters and rain is about

almost 50 minutes. for a white voter, it's six minutes. think about that for a second. you have -- the we want to live in a country where a black person has to wait seven eight times longer to vote. there are some areas in america, like texas, where in minority communities, they have to wait seven or eight hours. that's a days work. are we seeing people are going to taller -- we're going to tolerate a country where people have to give up hours a work, or taking care of the children. that's america today. if you don't think our democracy is in peril, with all these threats on voting officials, all these voter suppression laws that are creating such distinctly different experiences in voting in america. if you're passive in sitting on the sidelines, at this moment, not taking some responsibility to say, i have to do something different, like generations before. then you are part of the problem. one of the best things about

that dark day, for me, was seeing how many ordinary people rose to the occasion. whether it was staffers, making sure we protect those boxes. whether it was people like eugene goodman who, i tell you, if he did not lead the mob away from the senate, somebody would've been killed. most likely would've been the people in the mob -- because there were people with guns around. one of my favorite people, mr. rogers says, look for the helpers. i'm hoping that people look to themselves and say, i need to be a helper. january 6th may of last and it last year, but the crisis of violence are persisting. we are not immune to what is happening around this planet, and other areas where democracies are being worn down or eroding, with democratic

principles. -- who leaders who have authoritarians names. >> senator cory booker, from the great state of new jersey. thanks for being with us. i know it's been an intense day, an emotional day, it means a lot that you're here. >> thank you very much, rachel. >> we'll be right back, stay with us.

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if you're feeling anxious about the future, you're not alone. calhope offers free covid-19 emotional support. call 833-317-4673, or live chat at calhope.org today. a year ago, tomorrow, the day after the january 6th attack as we were all trying to understand one of just up in. i had a guest on the show who you will recognize. you know professor and author timothy snyder, has helped us multiple times over the last few years. he is under stand authoritarian tendencies both here and abroad. a year ago tomorrow, that thursday. our first full day of the country living in the reality of the generous six attack where we are all trying to digest what we just gone through and what it meant. professor snyder, joins us live

that night from vienna. at 3:30 in the morning, his time. this was the first question i had for him that day after the attack of the capital. watch what he said. >> so, you have been warning us for a long time not to underestimate where trump's election lies could go. one of the things i want to ask you about today was the president telling his followers, remember this day forever. he said that yesterday as one of the tweets that was ultimately deleted after he was taken off of all social media. how do we make sense of them gloating about this, remembering it forever, celebrating it and also trying to say it wasn't us it was our enemies? >> none of this happens without a concerted effort to keep this big like going from the beginning. and then finally, i think it's very clear that how this story is recalled in the future is going to matter a great deal for our republicans. mr. trump was quite clever about these things understands that. that's why he's using the word forever. >> how this story has recalled

in the future is going to matter great deal for our republic. that was one year ago. joining us now is timothy snyder, professor of history at yale university. bestselling offer among other books, on tyranny, 20 lessons from the 20th century. professor snyder, thank you for being here tonight. i'm really glad you could make time to be here. >> of course. >> when you said how this story has recalled in the future is going to matter great deal for our republic. how do you assess one year on how we are doing in terms of how we are telling the story? how we are recalling this history? >> well, on the one hand things look pretty bad. the big lie, which mr. trump formulated way back in november, the big lie that he actually won the election, the democrats cheated, has taken stronghold despite all the evidence. and despite all the contradictions inside that story. the big lie has become a kind of alternative reality. or a dream that people live

inside. it justifies having lost. it takes away the stain of having lost. it takes away the need to confront having lost. it blames the other side. it creates justification for taking revenge on the other side for something they never did in the first place. it becomes a way to purge the party. it becomes a way to turn right-wing media into one giant safe space which has happened. so on the one side they got all of that. on the other side, we have the generous six commission. we have the humble attempt by journalists and historians and others to try and put this story together the way it actually happened. which is how doris kearns goodwin said. it will build around to come into its account about what actually happened. and as a common sense account will bring enough much people that we can keep the republic going. >> when you talk about the big lie, the lies about the election being perpetrated,

excuse me, perpetuated for all of those regions that you described, the one that sticks to me viscerally is that it serves to provide justification for revenge on trump's behalf. to the extent that they keep propagating this idea that the election was not just a fraud or not just a shonda. but it was stolen. it was stolen. and the victim of that theft is trump. and as you said, it creates the justification for revenge on that part. today you but about the expectation that his followers will want to see him, not necessarily elected president but installed as president. with their without any fig leaf of democratic process in order to sort of effectuate that revenge. that is a very chilling prospect. i wondered if you could explain that a little bit in terms of why you think that risk is real. >> sure. let me first just spell of the thought that you had which are very much agree with. a couple of things from the

history of authoritarianism. one is that lies lead to violence. and violence leads to more lives. we're caught in that cycle right now. once trump told ally it was inevitable that founders would have to happen to make it seem true. and now that the violence has taken place, people have to lie about it in terms. another thing we note from the big history of the big lie is that it's about just what you said. the big lie is about flipping the victim and the perpetrator. it's about turning the perpetrator into the victim. in fact, it was much as trump will conspired to overturn our democratic procedures. but the big lie allows him to flip victimhood and demand revenge in effect for something that he did himself. as for the installation, i think that that is not the dominant scenario. i think that is why people are really thinking about. the voter suppression is meant to keep things as close as possible. the loss would to low voter subversion. audits to run off the clock. state legislators allocating electors by themselves. republicans in the house of representatives then voting ineffectively and installing a

president who has lost. that is right now unfortunately the mainstream scenario. and if it happens, i'm afraid that it will be welcomed by everyone who is telling the big lie. because the ultimate purpose of the big lie is to create this alternative reality that you live in up to the moment where you take power again. and then you imagine that when you take power that your guy has taken power will make it all true. will correct the pass we will sort everything out for you. that is a dream. i don't think that it will work, i think it will work to get in close to the oval office. i think that republicans would think this will not aren't taking into account that it's unlikely to work as a way to making a legitimate president. because these methods of getting somebody into the oval office will be unacceptable to a large swath of the american people and institutions. >> right, which says one thing about whether he'll be viewed as a legitimate president. it says something else entirely about whether or not we continue to exist as a coherent

country. timothy snyder is the author of onto or near. he's a professor at yale university. professor snyder, thank you for your time this evening. thank you to letting us turn to you on big nights. it's invaluable to have your council. thanks. >> thanks for doing what you do. thank you rachel. >> we'll be right back, stay with us. with us. as a professional bull-rider i'm used to taking chances. but when it comes to my insurance i don't. i use liberty mutual, they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. wooo, yeaa, woooooo and, by switching you could even save 665 dollars. hey tex, can someone else get a turn? yeah, hang on, i'm about to break my own record. yeah. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. ♪

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story we just told you to watch out for earlier this week. on friday, last friday new year's eve. a big fire ripped through a planned parenthood clinic. a really big fire. nine fire units responded to it. the building was declared a total loss. the reason i said earlier this week to keep eyes on the fire investigation is because that same clinic in knoxville was hit with a different kind of devastation less than a year ago. it was only last january when somebody took a shotgun and opened fire into that same planned parenthood location. and no arrests was ever made in that shooting. but it was because of the history that we thought it might be worth keeping an eye on that story when we learned about the fire at the same

location. well today, local and federal investigators announced that the fire at the planned parenthood in knoxville tennessee is being viewed as a criminal act investigative believed that it was intentionally set. knoxville's fire department is asking the community for help. they're offering a large cash reward for information that leads to the prosecution of anyone involved in the suspected arson. again, this is knoxville tennessee. we will continue to follow it. watch this space. watch this space along with your statin medication. the brand i trust is qunol.

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with us. anniversaries like this one are always tough. it was good to have you here. we'll see you tomorrow night. now it's time for the last word with, lawrence o'donnell. >> thank you, rachel. there's been some breaking news from liz cheney who, said that the committee is looking possibilities that donald trump's conduct was criminal, on january 6th. she said, they're not sure whether constitutes a crime or -- which is not criminal but they are death we focus on the