this is one of these conspiracy theories being popularized in the right wing networks including fox news. people like tucker carlson talking about this in regards to january 6th. but the committee going, that's not true. >> thank you so much for jumping in front of the camera for that breaking news. we'll have more tomorrow, but for now, nicolle wallace and deadline white house begin right now. it's 4:00 in new york. in just a few minutes, president biden is expected to give a speech many of his supporters have been waiting for since republicans first made their cynical and anti-democratic plans clear. namely that they would use the lie about election fraud in the 2020 election to roll bacak success to the polls in nearly every state in the union. president biden moments from now will deliver a major speech on voting rights, an issue that is now a legacy defining priority for him and his administration

in the wake of the other insurrection, the slow motion one that did not culminate on january 6, but rather commenced with it. to date, 19 states have passed voting restrictions. all of them disguised as election integrity measures. despite the fact that trump's ag, bill barr, found no evidence of fraud. even worthy of investigating and his lawyer, rudy giuliani, struck out in every legal challenge. that did not slow gop efforts or shame gop leaders. all of this creates the backdrop for today's speech. president biden and vice president harris traveling to georgia. the battle was kicked off with a passage of a sweeping voter suppression bill there in april. that bill so objectionable that at the time, major league baseball moved the league's all-star game out of georgia to colorado. since then, at least 12 bills have passed.

the president's speech today is about urgent action needed right now, but it's steeped in civil rights history and and acknowledgment of past battles over voting rights. the president began with a wreath laying followed by a stop at a the ebenezer baptist church where king preached and rafael warnock is at the forefront. advocates for voting rights across this country have been urging for months now for democrats in washington, including this president, to do something. anything. to put a stop or to slow the voter restrictions being led by republican state houses across the country. now "the new york times" is reporting that quote, several leading civil rights groups are skipping the speech. protesting what they denounced as months of frustrating inaction by the white house

which they say showed mr. biden did not view republican attacks on voting rights with sufficient urgency. with what is seen as a last ditch effort to get voting rights passed, the president is expected to issue a full throated endorsement of reforming the filibuster. using his bully pulpit to pressure democrats joe manchin and kirsten sinema to support changes to the one thing that stands in the way of bills passing. president biden jumping into the fray in the battle over voting rights is where we start. nick is here. also joining us, msnbc political analyst, claire mccaskill and michael steel. today, i had the privilege of welcoming simone sanders.

she'll be hosting a show on msnbc and on peacock. welcome to the family. first, i want to hear all about this move. i made a similar transition and it's weird in the earliest days, first, tell me about the speech. it feels like many, many weeks and months in the making. >> many, many weeks and months in the making. it's no coincidence i would argue that the president and vice president are traveling to atlanta to the late congressman jon lewis' district to give this speech today or this pair of speeches and i have been watching coverage on the network today, reading local news and much has been made about the activists and organizations who are skipping out on the president and vice president's remarks and i would note that president of the naacp has an interesting twitter thread folks should look at. and this speech, as you noted, this day isn't really about the

activists who have decided not to attend for various reasons. this is more so a culmination if you will of the legacy of the president and vice president. you know, as a senator, president biden presided over the longest extension of the voting rights reauthorization that was again interrupted by shelby b. holder. then attorney general harris filed with briefs with holder. so there's a lot of history here and i think this moment, history is a broken continuity and that is what this moment is. >> i want to do something and that is warn you ahead of time that i'll have to interrupt you. we're getting ready to hear from the vice president and when she starts talking, actually, i think she may have just been introduced. >> vice president, kamala harris. ♪♪

good afternoon, atlanta. good afternoon. thank you for that beautiful introduction and for your leadership. i can't wait to see what you do next. thank you. so last week, please do sit. last week, one year after a

violent mob breached the united states capitol, the president of the united states and i spoke from its hallowed halls and we made clear we swore to preserve, protect, and defend the constitution of the united states. and we will. we will fight. we will fight to safeguard our democracy. we will fight to secure our most fundamental freedom, the freedom to vote. and that is why we have come to atlanta today. to the cradle of the civil rights movement. to the district that was represented by the great congressman, jon lewis.

on the eve of the birthday of reverend dr. martin luther king jr. more than 55 years ago, men, women, and children marched from selma to montgomery to demand the ballot and when they arrived at the state capital in alabama, dr. king decried what he called normalcy. the normalcy. the complacency that was denying people the freedom to vote. the only normalcy anyone should accept, dr. king said, is the normalcy of justice. and his words resonate today. over the past few year, we have seen so many anti-voter laws that there is a danger of

becoming accustomed to these laws. a danger of adjusting to these laws as though they are normal. a danger of being complacent, complicit. anti-voter laws are not new in our nation, but we must not be deceived into thinking they are normal. we must not be deceived into thinking a law that makes it more difficult for students to vote is normal. we must not be deceived. into thinking a law that makes it illegal to help a voter with a disability vote by mail is normal. there's nothing normal about a law that makes it illegal to pass out water or food to people standing in long voting lines.

and i have met with voters in georgia. i have heard your outrage about the anti-voter law here and how many voters will likely be kept from voting. and georgia is not alone. across our nation, anti-voter laws could make it more difficult for as many as 55 million americans to vote. that is one out of six people in our country. and the proponents of these laws are not only putting in place obstacles to the ballot box, they are also working to interfere with our elections. to get the outcomes they want and to discredit those that they don't. that is not how a democracy should work. my fellow americans, do not

succumb to those who would dismiss this assault on voting rights as an unfounded threat. who would wave this off as a partisan game. the assault on our freedom to vote will be felt by every american in every community in every political party. and if we stand idly by, our entire nation will pay the price for generations to come. as dr. king said, the battle is in our hands. and today, the battle is in the hands of the leaders of the american people, those in particular, that the american people sent to the united states senate. two landmark bills sit before the united states senate. the jon lewis voting rights

advancement act and the freedom to vote act. and these two bills represent the first real opportunity to secure the freedom to vote since the united states supreme court gutted the voting rights act nearly a decade ago. we do not know when we will have this opportunity again. senate republicans have exploited arcane rules to block these bills. and let us be clear. the constitution of the united states gives the congress the power to pass legislation and nowhere, nowhere does the constitution give a minority the right to unilaterally block legislation. the american people have waited long enough. the senate must act.

and the bottom line is this. years from now, our children and our grandchildren, they will ask us about this moment. they will look back on this time and they will ask us not about how we felt. they will ask us what did we do. we cannot tell them that we let a senate rule stand in the way of our most fundamental freedom. instead, let us tell them that we stood together as people of conscious and courage. let us tell them we acted with the urgency that this moment demands. and let us tell them we secured the freedom to vote that we ensured free and fair elections

and we safeguarded our democracy for them and their children. and now, my fellow americans, it is my honor to introduce a leader who is unwaivering in his commitment to defend our democracy and ensure the ballot prevails. the president of the united states of america, joe biden. >> in our lives, the lives, the life of our nation, there are moments so stark that they

divide all that came before and everything that followed. they stop time. they rip away the trivial from the essential. and they force us to confront hard truths about ourselves, about our institutions, and about our democracy. in the words of scripture remind us to hate evil, love good, and establish justice in the gate. last week, president harris and i stood in the united states capitol to observe one of those before and after moments in american history. january 6th insurrection on the citadel of our democracy. today, we come to atlanta, the cradle of civil rights, to make

clear what must come after that dreadful day on a dagger that's literally held at the throat of american democracy. we stand on the grounds that connect clark atlanta, atlanta university, morehouse college, near spelman college, a generation of activists, educators and preachers. young people. just like the students here who have done so much to build a better america. we visited the sacred ebenezer church and paused to pray, dr. and mrs. king and spent time with their family. and here in the district as was pointed out, represented and reflected on the life of a beloved friend, jon lewis. in their lifetimes, time stopped

when a bomb blew up the 16th street baptist church in birmingham and murdered four little girls. they stopped when jon and many others seeking justice were beaten and bloodied while crossing the bridge at selma named after the grand dragon of the ku klux klan. they stopped, time stopped. they forced the country to confront the hard truths and to act. to act to keep the promise of america alive. the promise that holds that we're all created equal. but more importantly, deserve to be treated equally. and from those moments of darkness and despair came light and hope. democrats, republics and independents worked to fashion the historic civil rights act and the voting rights

legislation and each successive generation continued that ongoing work. but then the violent mob of january 6th, 2021, empower and encouraged by a defeated former president sought to win through violence what he had lost at the ballot box. to impose the will of the mob. to overturn free and fair election and for the first time, the first time in american history, to stop the peaceful transfer of power. they failed. they failed. but democracies, but democracies victory was not certain, nor is democracies future. that's why we're here today to stand against the forces in america that value power over principle. forces that attempted a coup.

a coup against the will of the american people by sewing doubt, defunding charges of fraud, seeking to steal the 2020 election from the people. they want chaos to reign. we want to people to rule. let me be clear. this is not about me or vice president harris or the party. it's about all of us. it's about the people of america. hear me plainly. the battle for the soul of america is not over. we must stand strong and stand together to make sure january 6th marks not the end of democracy, but the beginning of a renaissance of our democracy. you know, with the right to vote and have that vote counted is democracy's threshold liberty. without it, nothing is possible. but with it, anything is

possible. the denial of free and fair elections is undemocratic, it is not unprecedented. black americans were denied full citizenship voting rights until 1965. women were denied the right to vote until just 100 years ago. the united states supreme court in recent years has weakened the voting rights act and now the defeated former president and his supporters used the big lie about the 2020 election to fuel torment and anti-voting laws. new laws designed to suppress your vote to subvert our elections. here in georgia, for years, you've done the hard work of democracy. registering voters. educating voters. getting voters to the polls. you build a broad coalition of voters. black, white, latino, asian

american. urban, suburban, rural. working class and middle class. and it's worked. you've changed the state. by bringing more people, legally, to the polls. that's how you win historic elections. senator warnock and ossoff. you did it the right way. the democratic way. and what's been the reaction of republicans in georgia? choose the wrong way. the undemocratic way. to them, too many people voting in a democracy is a problem. so they're putting up obstacles. for example, voting by mail is a safe and convenient way to get people to vote to they're making it harder for you to vote by mail. the same way i might add in 2020

election, president trump voted from behind the desk in the white house in florida. dropping your ballots off to secure drop boxes. it's safe. it's convenient. and you get more people to vote. so they're limiting the number of drop boxes and hours you can use them. taking away the actions. that's a predictable effect. longer lines at the polls. lines that can last for hours. you've seen them with your own eyes. people get tired. they get hungry. the bible teaches us to feed the hungry and give water to the thirsty, the new georgia law actually makes it illegal. think of this. 2020. and now '22 going into the election. it makes it illegal to bring your neighbors, your fellow

voters, food or water while they wait in line to vote. what in the hell, heck, are we talking about. i mean, think about it. that's not america. that's what it looks like when they suppress the right to vote. and here's how they plan to subvert the election. the georgia republican party, the state legislature has now given itself the power to make it easier for partisan actors. their cronies, to remove local election officials. think about that. what happened the last election? the former president and allies pursued, threatened, and intimidated state and local election officials. election workers. ordinary citizens. were subject to death threats. menacing phone calls. people stalking them in their homes. remember what the defeated

former president said to the highest ranking election official, a republican in this state? he said, quote, i just want to find 11,780 votes. pray god. he didn't say that part. he didn't say count the votes. he said find votes. that he needed to win. he failed because of the officials, democrats, republicans, who did their duty and upheld the law, but with this new law in georgia, his loyalists will be placed in charge of state elections. what is that going to mean? well, the chances for chaos and subversion are even greater as partisans seek the results they want no matter what the results have said. no matter what the count.

votes of nearly 5 million georgians will be up for grabs if that law holds. it's not just here in georgia. last year alone, 19 states, not proposed, but enacted, 34 laws attacking voting rights. there were nearly 400 additional bills republican members of state legislatures tried to pass and now, republican legislatures in several states have announced plans to escalate the onslaught this year. their end game, to turn the will of the voters into a mere suggestion. something states can respect or ignore. jim crow, 2.0, is about two insidious things. voter suppression and election subversion. it's no longer about who gets to vote. it's about making it harder to vote.

it's about who gets to count the vote. and whether your vote counts at all. it's not hyperbole. this is a fact. look, this matters to all of us. the goal of the former president and his allies is to disenfranchise anyone who votes against them. simple as that. the facts won't matter. your vote won't matter. they'll just decide what they want and then do it. that's the kind of power you see in totalitarian states. not in democracies. we must be vigilant and the world is watching. i know the majority of the world leaders. the good and the bad ones. adversaries and allies alike. they're watching american democracy and seeing whether we can meet in moment. that's not hyperbole. when i showed up at the g-7 with

seven other world leaders, there were a total of nine present. vice president harris and i have spent our careers doing this work. i said america's back. and the response was, for how long? for how long? someone who's worked in foreign policy my whole life, i never thought i would ever hear our allies say something like that. over the past year, we directed federal agencies to promote access to voting. led by the vice president. we've appointed top civil rights advocates to help the u.s. department of justice, which is double its voting rights enforcement staff. today, we call on congress to get done what history will judge. pass the freedom to vote act! pass it now!

which will prevent voter suppression. here in georgia, there's full acts as to voting by mail. there are enough drop boxes during enough hours so that you can bring food and water as well. to people waiting in line. the freedom to vote act takes on election subversion to protect non-partisan electors. officials who during their job from intimidation and interference. it would get dark money out of politics. create fair district maps and ending partisan gerrymandering. look, it's also time to pass the jon lewis voting rights advancement act. i've been having these quiet conversations with members of congress for the last two

months. i'm tired of being quiet! folks, it will restore the strength of the voting rights act to 65. the one president johnson signed after jon lewis was beaten, nearly killed, on bloody sunday. only to have the supreme court over the past decade. restoring the voting rights act would mean that justice department can stop discriminatory laws before they go into effect. before they go into effect. the vice president and i have supported voting rights bills since day one of this administration, but each and every time, senate republicans have blocked the way. republicans oppose even debating the issue. hear me? i've been around the senate a long time. i was vice president for eight

years. i've never seen a circumstance where not one single republican has a voice that's ready to speak for justice now. when i was a senator, including when i headed up the judiciary committee, i helped reauthorize. we held hearings, we debated, we voted. was able to extend the voting rights act for 25 years. in 2006, the voting right act passed 390-33 in the house of representatives and 98-0 in the senate. with 16 current sitting republicans in this united states senate. 16 of them. voted to extend it. the last year i was chairman, some of my friends sitting down here will tell you. strom thurmond voted to extend the voting rights act.

strom thurmond. you can say that again. wow. you have no idea how damn, darn hard i worked on that one. but folks, then it was signed into law the last time by president george w. bush. you know, when we get voting rights extended to 1980, i said even thurmond supported it. think about that. the man who led the, one of the longest filibusters in history, united states senate, 1957 against the voting rights act. the man who led and sided with all southern bulls in the united states senate to perpetuate segregation in this nation. even strom thurmond came to support voting rights. republics in the day can't and won't. not a single republican has displayed the courage to stand

up to a defeated president to protect america's right to vote. not one. not one. we have 50/50 in the united states senate. that means we have 51 presidents. you all think i'm kidding. i've been pretty good at working with senators my career, but man, when you've got 51 presidents, it gets harder. any one can change the outcome. sadly, the united states senate designed to be the world's greatest dlibtive body, has been rendered a shell of its former self. gives me no satisfaction in saying that as an institutionalist, as a man who was honored to serve in the senate. but as an institutionalist, i believe the threat to our democracy is so grave that we must find a way to pass these

voting rights bills. let the majority prevail and if that bare minimum is blocked, we have no option but to change the senate rules including getting rid of the filibuster for this. you know, last year, if i'm not mistaken, the filibuster was used 154 times. filibuster has been used to generate compromise in the past. promote some bipartisan, but was also used to obstruct, including especially obstruct civil rights and voting rights and when it was used, senate traditionally used to have to stand and speak at their desk for however long it took and sometimes it took hours and when they sat down, if no one immediately stood up,

anyone could call for a vote. but the debate ended. but that doesn't happen today. senators no longer have to speak one word. filibuster's not used to keep it together. but to pull it apart. filibusters weaponize and abuse. all you need in your house and senate is a pure majority. united states senate, it takes a super majority 60 votes. even to get a vote. instead of 50. to protect the right to vote. state legislators can pass anti-voting laws to simple majorities. if they can do that, then the united states senate should be able to check voting rights by a simple majority. today, i'm making it clear, protect our democracy, i support

changing the senate rules. whichever way they need to be changed to prevent a minority of senators from blocking action on voting rights. when it comes to protecting majority rule in america, the majority should rule in the united states senate. i make this announcement with careful deliberation, recognizing the fundamental right to vote is a right from which all other rights flow and i make it with an appeal to my republican colleagues. to those republicans who believe in the rule of law, restore the bipartisan tradition of voting rights. people who restored it in the past were nixon, gerald ford, reagan, george h.w. bush, george w. bush. they all supported the voting rights act.

don't let the republican party morph into something else. restore the institution of the senate the way it was designed to be. senate rules were just changed to raise the debt ceiling so we wouldn't renege on our debt for the first time in history. prevent an economic crisis. that was done by a simple majority. as senator warnock said in a power speech, if we change the rules to protect the full faith and credit of the united states, we should be able to change the rules to protect the hard and soul of our democracy. he was right. the days that followed jon lewis' death, there was praise across the political spectrum, but as we stand here today, isn't enough just to praise his memory. we must translate eulogy into action.

we need to follow jon lewis' footsteps. we need to support the bill in his name. just a few days ago, we talked about, up in the congress and the white house, the event coming up shortly to celebrate dr. king's birthday. and americans of all stripes will praise him for the content of his character, but as dr. king's family said before, it's not enough to praise their father. they even said on this holiday, don't celebrate his birthday unless you're willing to support what he lived for and what he died for. the next few days when these bills come to a vote will mark a turning point in this nation's history. we will choose. the issue is, will we choose democracy over autocracy?

light over shadows? justice over injustice? i know where i stand. i will not yield. i will not flinch. i will defend the right to vote. our democracy against all enemies. foreign, and yes, domestic. the question is where will the institution of the united states senate stand? every senator, democrat, republican, and independent, want to declare where they stand. not just for the moment but for the ages. will you stand against voter suppression? yes or not? that's the question they'll answer. will you stand against election subversion? yes or no? will you stand for democracy? yes or no? here's one thing every senator, every american should remember. history has never been kind to those who have sided with voter

suppression over voter's rights. and less kind for those who side with election subversion. so i ask every elected official in america, how do you want to be remembered? consequential moments in history that present a choice. do you want to be on the side of dr. king or george wallace? do you want to be on the side of jon lewis or bull connor? do you want to be on the side of abraham lincoln or jefferson davis? this is the moment to decide to defend our elections, to defend our democracy. and if you do that, you will not be alone. that's because the struggle to protect voting rights has never been born by one group alone. we saw freedom riders of every race. leaders of every faith marching

arm in arm and yes, democrats, republicans in congress of the united states and in the presidency. i did not live the struggles of douglas, tubman, king, lewis, goodman, cheney. countless others, known and unknown. i did not walk in the shoes of generations of students who walked these grounds, but i walked other grounds because i'm so damn old, i was there as well. they think i'm kidding, man. seems like yesterday the first time i got arrested, anyway. but there are struggles here. they're the ones that opened my eyes as a high school student in the late '50s and early '60s. they got me more engaged in the

work of my life and what we're talking about today is rooted in the very idea of america. the idea that nell ponder who graduated from clark atlanta captured in a single word. she was a teacher and a librarian. also an unyielding champion of voting rights. in 1963, when i was just starting college university after registering voters in mississippi, she was pulled off a bus, arrested and jailed where she was brutally beaten. in a cell next to her was fannie lou hammer. who described the beating this way, and i quote, i can hear the sounds of the licks and the horrible screams. they beat her. i don't know for how long. and after a while, she began to

pray and ask god to have mercy on those people. and nell ponder's friends visited her the next day. her face was badly swollen. she could hardly talk. but she managed to whisper one word. freedom. freedom. the only word she whispered. after nearly 250 years since our founding, that singular idea still echoes, but it's up to all of us to make sure it never fades. especially the students here. your generation. that just started voting. as there are those who are trying to take away that vote you just started to be able to exercise. but the giants we honor today who were your age when they made clear who we must be as a

nation. not a joke. think about it. in the early '60s, they were sitting where you're sitting. they were you. and like them, you give me much hope for the future. before and after in our lives and the life of this nation, democracy is who we are. who we must be. now and forever. so let's stand in this brief together. let's love good establish justice in the game. and remember as i said, this is one of those defining moments in american history. each of those who vote will be remembered. by class after class in the '50s and '60s. the 2050s and '60s.

each one of the members of the senate is going to be judged by history on where they stood before the vote and where they stood after the vote. there's no escape. so let's get back to work. as my grandfather used to say every time i walked out the door in scranton, he'd say, joey, keep the faith. then he'd say, no, joey, spread it. let's spread the faith and get this done! may god bless you all and may god protect the sacred right to vote. thank you, i mean it. let's go get this done! thank you. ♪♪ >> a fiery president biden delivering a speech that a lot of his supporters have been

waiting a long time to hear. he set out to deliver on those expectations today. the president and vice president set out to kill the filibuster once and for all. if those calls are heeded in the senate. we will bring that breaking news to you. i want to start with you, claire mccaskill, and this framing of the speech. this president made clear, he said this, i support changing the senate rules in whatever way they need to be changed to protect the majority rule. do you know how many people out there watching in the public support that? 57% of democratic voters support majority rule and 15 percentage points more on the republican side support majority rule. this president, this white house, has the public behind him. has the base of his party behind him. has the coalition that sent him and the vice president behind them. is this really a manchin conversation at this point?

>> i thought that's what was really important about this speech. by the way, let me not go any further before i say welcome, simone. i look forward to many great conversations with you. she was pointing out before the speech began and i think it's really important to underline this. i get really tired and i don't mean any disrespect to the great journalists on the panel, really tired of the coverage over the inparty fighting. i mean, so there were a couple of groups that didn't show up to the speech today. what biden did today was say this is about the 16 republicans that voted to extend the voting rights bill in 2006. that are still in the is that the. what happened to them? where did their spines go? where did their care and concern about our democracy and the ability to vote go? what is their excuse for refusing to allow debate on a bill that is as fundamental as this. so let's forget about for a

minute as joe biden said, what groups didn't show up today or who's mad at who within the democratic party and let's focus the attention where it belongs. on the 16 republicans that are hiding under their desk and allowing democracy to crumble around them. >> we're going to have their names. the one great journalist on this panel though was the one reporter who has the destruction of democracy at the hands of a lie and fraud as his beat. nick doesn't need me to defend him, but let me just point out that the democrats who have been upset with president biden are the ones who sent him there and a lot of them show up on this show and they're thot reporters. they're important parts of his base. they include al sharpton, who was in the audience. i wonder, nick, what you heard in the speech that sort of takes some of the air out of the balloon. that pent you have angst for lack of a better word, for the president to show this fire on this issue? >> well two things that really stood out the to me was the

first and what we expected. he was done dancing around the issue of whether he supported a carveout for the filibuster or not. he said we need to change the senate rules in order to pass federal voting rights legislation. it wasn't a clear cut we need to get rid of the filibuster completely. just about voting rights and i think that clear, undeniable stance by the president was one thing in particular that a lot of voting rights activists and a lot of civil rights leaders have been just waiting to hear and i think part of the reason that some didn't show up was because they hadn't heard it yet. it had been, you know, over a year since january 6th assault on the capitol. it had been almost ten months since georgia republicans passed their sweeping voting law so that was part of the reason some of the good will soured among key parts of his base. i think the second thing the president said that will really appease some of those frustrated groups was a direct call, maybe not by name, but to some of democratic holdouts about changing the filibuster. particularly senator manchin.

senator sinema. he made those comparisons to 51 presidents and how difficult it can be, but then later when he said whose side are you on? president lincoln and civil rights leaders or bull conner. that i think is really going to play well with some of these voting rights groups who have been looking for the president to use his bully pulpit against members of his own party who have been holding out on this. >> michael, to claire's point, he really called bs on the republicans. i was in the white house in 2006 when president george w. bush signed the extension. these are the 16 republicans who voted and i believe showed up. senator mcconnell. grassley. shelby. crepo. not sure how to say that one. collins. graham, thune, cornyn, blackburn, blunt. boseman, caputo, moran, all

voted for the 2006 reauthorization. the president invoked former republican presidents. reagan and george w. bush. what is the sort of prospect of maybe moving manchin by showings version of the republican party is? >> well, i don't know about that. i think everybody knows how extreme and radicalized this version of the republican party is. it's no secret at this stage. manchin works with him every day. he's had the private conversations with them that, you know, he knows that they're not going to go but an inch away from mcconnell, and no further. so this fight has always been, from the very beginning, of this administration, about what this administration would do with the politics, and today, starting probably last week with his speech on january 6th occasion,

the president decided to engage politically and decided to actually call out the b.s. and call the bluffs of his not only the -- his political opponents on the right but also within his own party. i understand, you know, the politics of not wanting to show up. you think you're going to embarrass the president. but guess what? he's got the bully pulpit and he used it to knock some heads today and god bless him. it's about time. i've been wondering, when are you going to do the politics? it's about the politics. and mcconnell knows, i got the corner on politics right now because the democrats won't or don't know how to use it against me. so, we'll see. there were a couple of things, real quick, that stopped -- that jumped out to me in the speech that are important. >> please. >> one, at the beginning, confront hard truths about ourselves. that message is important to drive home, because what's at

stake here is us. we talk about it in terms of voting. we talk about it in terms of rights and all of that and the constitution, but at the end of the day, it's us. so, the president now saying, folks, i'm going to take the mirror and hold it up to you. and i'm going to let you see yourselves, because that's what this is about. us. the second part of it was, you know, the fact that he talked about the defeated president and i love that term. it's going to drive trump nuts, referring to him, not as the former president but as the defeated president. i think that's good. but i think he, you know, he needs to connect all of this, and i think he's beginning to do that, nicole, with the country. and to claire's point about, you know, how, you know, this group or that group doesn't participate or not there and how the press covers that, don't get distracted by that. have them come to your space,

because you're defining the conversation. and i think the president is finally beginning his -- beginning to get his sea legs on that in this moment, and let me just give a quick shoutout to my girl, simone. welcome. it's good to have you in the family. >> simone, i'm coming to you. this was an incredible speech by the president, showing the fire on the issue where a lot of the fire is. in his coalition. i hate when people talk about this as just a base issue. this is the coalition that sent him there, that cared about democracy, that may or may not have been a democrat but saw donald trump as undemocratic so i think the coalition has been waiting a long time for this speech but this was a fiery speech by the vice president and i want to read some of the lines that i think people will be talking about for a long time from her. this is what nick captures in his reporting, how normal it's become for state after state after state to pass voting restrictions. i've heard some of the things

that were banned are the most secure ways people voted in 2020. the vice president called out the normalcy and complacency of denying people the right to vote. how long has she been wanting to give a speech like that? >> i think the president and vice president have been ready to say what they have been, frankly, saying to senators and members of congress and the activist community for months. people who have met with the vice president, people who have met with the president and that includes all the legacy civil rights groups, a number of the activists on the ground across the country, the vice president and her travels from ohio to georgia to detroit to chicago to california, she has met with voting rights advocates and activists across the country, and their message has been consistent and clear. as the president said a couple months ago, look, we have to get some of these infrastructure bills done and passed, but we stand staunchly in agreement on voting rights.

i think the important part of what the president and vice president did today is, yes, they're fiery, passionate, but they called folks to the carpet and they applied pressure and that is what is needed going into this weekend where it is expected that a vote is going to happen. i've texted with senators, i've asked, what is going on? are we going to get a vote? they have told me a vote is coming and people, united states senators, need to go on the record. the question really is, in my opinion, nicole, what happens after monday? what happens after the question has been called, people are on the record, and let's just say the vote doesn't pass. what are activists and advocates and organizations looking for from the president and vice president? what kind of pressure will be applied there? not just on democrats but on republicans, because this isn't an issue. our democracy isn't a partisan issue. it's an american issue. it's just crazy to me that this has become a partisan game. >> well, but here we are, this is who we are, and i mean,

claire, you called out the republicans. the truth is the republicans stand for voter suppression in the name and in the disguise of election integrity because their base believes it. bill barr couldn't find any, couldn't find anybody to investigate and prosecute. chris krebs said it was the more secure election in our country's history. but that doesn't matter in the fact-immune republican base. and i wonder if you can pick up on what symone is talking about, is there a plan b, and maybe the most biden line of the whole speech was to say, i've been having quiet talks, the likes of which symone's been talking about, president and vice president have been meeting with stakeholders. president got, i think, the loudest response when he said, i'm done being quiet. >> yeah, i think this is kind of him putting a flag in the ground and saying, this is where i'm going to fight. i think it's a smart fight to make. you know, there is no one in america who thinks there's something insidious about giving

people that are in line to vote water. you know? i mean, that's the kind of stuff they do in, like, weird countries that nobody's ever heard of. you know, we don't do that in america. we don't punish people for providing water to people in line. that's the kind of stuff that we need to be front and center talking about as we go into 2022, and i do think that if the vote fails, this is going to have to be a moment where everyone does a gut check and rallies and doesn't go home and say, we're not going to participate because they couldn't get it done. it just means we have to elect more democrats. we have to keep working this. we have to keep registering voters as michelle obama announced over the weekend, that she plans on working to register another million voters next year. so we can't give up. but they have done a good job, nicole. they just did a poll in my state over the weekend in a new congressional district in southwest missouri of republican primary voters.

64% of the people polled said donald trump won the election. >> yeah. i mean, if the lies are what they're feeding, that's what the republicans are eating. nick, claire mccaskill, michael steele, symone sanders, a huge welcome from all of us to the msnbc family. we're so glad you're here. thank you all for starting us off and spending time with us this hour. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after a short break. don't go anywhere. house" starts after a short break. don't go anywhere. one of my vorite supplements is qunol turmeric. turmeric helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. unlike regular turmeric supplements qunol's superior absorption helps me get the full benefits of turmeric. the brand i trust is qunol. a must in your medicine cabinet! less sick days! cold coming on? zicam is the #1 cold shortening brand!

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the battle for the soul of america is not over. i support changing the senate rules. whichever way they need to be changed to prevent a minority of senators from blocking action on voting rights. when it comes to protecting majority rule in america, the majority should rule in the united states senate. and make this announcement with

careful deliberation, recognizing the fundamental right to vote is a right from which all other rights flow. >> hi there again, everybody, it's 5:00 in new york as well as in atlanta where president biden in the last hour delivered a stirring speech about the urgent need to protect voting rights in this country, putting his full support for the first time behind a carveout of the filibuster. it is the biggest step on the biggest stage that he has taken so far to pressure the senate in which he once serves to pass voting rights legislation and to combat the republican party's aggressive assault on american democracy and elections. while president biden's speech had the passion that voting rights advocates have been calling for, for many of them, it was too little, too late today. some voting rights and civil rights groups did not attend the president's speech. president biden call on the senate to pass two federal voting rights bills, which among other things stem the harmful effects of the new republican laws that suppress voting access

and allow for more partisan control over our elections. but both bills face tall odds of getting passed. democrats are still not in agreement over getting rid of the filibuster, and without that unity on that question, most hope of passage is fruitless. one of the democrats not on board, of course, senator joe manchin of west virginia. he has said he does not want to alter the senate rules without bipartisan agreement. but his president biden underscored in his speech today, there is no compromise to be made with the political party that is actively waging war on free and fair elections. the choice before senators, in his view, is black and white. >> will you stand against voter suppression, yes or no? that's the question they'll answer. will you stand election subversion, yes or no? will you stand for democracy? yes or no. there is one thing every senator and every american should

remember. history has never been kind to those who have sided with voter suppression over voters' rights and it will be less kind for those who side with election subversion. >> the 34 voter suppression laws already passed by republican legislatures and signed into law across 19 states, that number will only grow as the gop has made clear they're out in the open about this. it is continuing these efforts in this new year, which means right now is do or die for democrats in washington. ari berman writes in "mother jones," this, quote, the stakes couldn't be higher. if democrats don't pass these voting rights bills and soon, the 2022 election will take place under voting restrictions designed to suppress turnout among democratic-leaning constituencies. gerrymandered maps that roll back representation for communities of color and election subversion laws giving stop the steal candidates unprecedented power over election administration and how votes are counted.

collectively, these anti-democratic measures could cost democrats control of congress and crucial state offices in 2022, making it much easier for republicans to rig the 2024 election. democrats' last ditch effort to protect our democracy is where we begin the hour with some of our most favorite reporters and friends. marc elias is here, voting rights attorney and founder of the democracy docket. also joining us, dnc chairman j.b. harrison, msnbc contributor and former congresswoman donna wards is here and the aforementioned ari berman. it's an embarrassment of riches. you're four people we have called on since the earliest days after the november election and marc elias, this is all of our fight but you're one of the first people suited up and on the battlefield and i wonder your reaction to the president and vice president's speeches this afternoon. >> i thought the speeches were excellent, and i think they met the moment where we are. which is, not looking past this

week. we need to pass the freedom to vote act. we need to pass the john lewis voting rights advancement act and we need to pass them now, and the senate is going to have an opportunity to take an up and down vote on the passage of those important bills, and every senator, democrat and republican, are going to have to look at themselves in the mirror and look at the american people and decide whether or not they are going to let the senate rules be the murder weapon for our democracy. and what you heard the president and the vice president say loudly and clearly today is that they stand on the side of protecting voting rights and protecting democracy. and this is that moment, and i thought they did an excellent job. >> marc, i thought i heard them maybe looking for a republican vote. joe manchin seems inexplicably locked in, in his fealty the filibuster over the protection of our elections. he's got this sort of jigsaw puzzle of wanting to stem a

wildly partisan push predicate on the a wildly partisan fringe-y lie with a bipartisan solution, but i wonder if sort of name checking the 16 republican senators who previously voted for reauthorizations of the voting rights act was an effort to, you know, maybe throw caution to the wind and look for a republican vote. >> yeah, i think it is. and i think it was also laying down a marker that every politician has the first line of their obituary, and the first line of the obituary of the people who sided with donald trump in the insurrection to try to overturn free and fair elections on january 6th will be about that. i'm here to say that if you are a senator who, you know, has had a long and distinguished career where you have been on, in your view, the right side of history, and voted for the reauthorization of the voting rights act in 2006, that bought

you nothing for that first line of your obituary. what history will remember you for is whether, when democracy was at stake, when we faced a choice between protecting free and fair elections or giving up on them, whether you voted with the forces of trump to undermine our future or in favor of democracy and for our children and our grandchildren to have a democracy. >> marc, we sometimes get to the point of asking, you know, wwrd? what would republicans do? i think we both agree mitch mcconnell would be 12 months in to governing sans filibuster, right? what is it in this moment that you think could change that democratic dna and make them govern like republicans, using the power that voters have given them? >> i think that what democrats need to understand is that the old rules don't apply. and in many respects, i thought it was very powerful to hear president biden today talk about

the filibuster because he had lived through the old rule. he lived through the era of bipartisanship in the senate. of speaking filibusters, of the revised filibuster rules, and what every democrat needs to realize right now, whether you're a senator or you're sitting at home and you are an activist, is that the old rules by which we can assume good faith on the part of republicans, those days are over. hopefully they'll come back, but that isn't the moment we're in right now. and you can't ask a firefighter to cooperate and make peace with an arsonist. and right now, we are not going to get republicans to act in a reasonable way, and democrats need to understand that unfortunately, the burden of history is on their shoulders to pass these bills and save our democracy for another generation. >> marc elias, thank you so much for jumping on and starting us off this hour. it's great to see you. >> thank you. jamie harrison, i'm coming

to you. i want to know what you think of the president calling out these 16 republicans. i'll read their names here. it was senator mcconnell, grassley, shelby, crapo, collins, burr, imhoff, grant, boseman-capito, moran and wicker who in 2006 put their name and put their vote behind the reauthorization of the voting rights act. what has changed? >> well, listen, nicole, not only did all of these folks -- and i was a young staffer on the hill when the voting rights act was reauthorized under a republican president with the republican house and a republican senate. and this bill, the john lewis bill, is not very different from the one bill that they voted for. and i guess if you research these people and you look back on next month is black history month, look at their tweets during that month. look at the tweets that they will have and the releases that they will put out on the martin

luther king holiday or when john lewis passed away, all claiming the greatness of these individuals and how america's so much better because they were here. well, the thing that those folks fought for was to make sure that every american, regardless of your background, your sex, your gender identity, sexual orientation, your ethnicity, who you prayed to, that you got the opportunity to live the american dream and exercise your right. it is the height of hypocrisy to see mitch mcconnell with his crocodile tears talk about taking away the rights of millions of folks when this man stood in the well of the united states senate and took away the presidential -- the constitutional right of president obama to appoint a nominee to the court. he didn't even consider it. and so, you know, i think marc was spot on, nicole. democrats have to understand that our politics in this country have evolved and we have to also evolve with it and this

is not about the times where you sit with lunch and you fly in the codals with members of congress on the other side and you say, they're such a good person. this is about the fundamental building block to our democracy, and we got to stand up and protect it. choose your side, folks. it's about choosing your side, and history is going to record you in terms of how you choose. >> you know, jamie, one thing that marc has said previously is that the rolling back of access to the polls and the rigging of who does the counting, the more insidious piece of a lot of these bills, the georgia law, a lot of them have this as a feature, not a bug, be is the one thing that united states all republicans, that for all of her heroics on the 1/6 committee, liz cheney has not come out against the statewide voter suppression laws, and i wonder how you deal with a republican party that is united on a policy push predicated on b.s. they're all predicated on -- they're all backed as election

integrity measures. there was no damage to the integrity of the elections. there was no fraud. bill barr couldn't find anything to investigate. rudy giuliani didn't rack up a single victory in court. so it's not a debate between the democrats and the republicans. it's one side adhering to the facts and the other passing law after law after law, 19 in total, almost 500 introduced so far in 48 states, based a lie. how do you fight that? >> well, we are -- at the dnc are trying to do everything that we can in terms of fighting back. and it's from the courthouses, and marc is also one of our attorneys, and he does such a damn good job of pushing back and fighting back against these republican attempts. from the courthouses to our state houses to the houses of congress, but we're also going to have to take this fight to the streets as well, and i hear some of my friends in the activist and civil rights groups, you know, we can't organize our way out of this. but we can't also sit back and

not try to do something to mitigate the impact that these laws are going to have on the people in this country, because the fear is real. you know, my grandparents did not always have the right to vote, and my grandfather often told me stories about how hard it was for him, and so many folks in south carolina, and the intimidation that they had, that they were risking their life and limb just to exercise their right on who they wanted to represent. and you know, nicole, we can't go back. and i tell you, i will do everything in my power to make sure that my son don't have to live through the same things that my grandparents went through, and this has to be the fight that we all -- democrats, republicans, and independents, that we all have to stand up for, and we can't allow these republicans to just, because they want power, to take away the fundamental thing that defines who we are as a nation. >> jamie, stay with us. i want to bring donna edwards into the conversation.

senior white house official said to me about the president, he will bend and twist arms, argue publicly. in the end, he can not make a senator vote with him, but it will not be for a lack of trying. what is your sense of how optimistic the white house is that they can get one of these two bills passed and signed into law? >> well, i think the hope has to be that when senators have to, you know, go and vote, that it will be upon them to demonstrate to the rest of america that they are willing to stand on one side or the other of a very bright line, and i think today, vice president harris and the president really drew a very bright line. are you standing on the side of the constitutional protections of the right to vote or not? and let's look at what these senators who would vote against it and the 16 republicans who already supported the voting

rights act, they're opposed to things like same-day voting, voter -- improved voter registration, absentee voting, mail-in voting, these are really simple voting rights protections, and then of course, the john lewis voting rights advancement act that shores up the constitutional protections that allow the department of justice, really, to take a deep dive and look at voting rights protections, and so i'm asking myself, what is it that even democratic senators are opposed to? and they're going to have to put their name on a line. they're going to have to turn their card in, and either they stand on the side of a constitutional protection for voting rights or they don't. and i think this speech today was really important because it laid down that gauntlet, and it wasn't just about passion. it was saying, you are going to have to cast a vote.

will you be on the right side, or will you be on the wrong side of that bright line? >> and that -- that sort of setting this in stark terms. some of that fell to the vice president and her remarks. i want to play something those for you, ari. >> there is a danger of becoming accustomed to these laws, a danger of adjusting to these laws as though they are normal, a danger of being complacent, complicit. anti-voter laws are not new in our nation. but we must not be deceived into thinking they are normal. we must not be deceived into thinking a law that makes it more difficult for students to vote is normal. we must not be deceived into thinking a law that makes it

illegal to help a voter with a disability vote by mail is normal. there is nothing normal about a law that makes it illegal to pass out water or food to people standing in long voting lines. >> so, ari, for all the important things that were said about the filibuster, i think to the country at large, this was one of the most important things that people needed to hear. it is not normal for one of the two political parties to have spent every minute of the last 12 months passing voter suppression laws predicated on a lie that there was fraud. there was no fraud. and when there is fraud, places where you're worried about fraud, there are laws to investigate and prosecute the fraud and the places where the trump people went and looked for it, they didn't find any and where they did find it it was usually dead people voting for trump, so ari, how do we sort of apply the vice president's message there about not normalizing what the right is

doing? >> that's absolutely right, nicole. the republican party has had a single minded focus over the last year of instituting an insurrection through other means, and people understand the insurrection on january 6th. what they don't understand as well is how the voter suppression, how the gerrymandering, how the election subversion is a continuation of the insurrection, to try to achieve the goals in 2021 and 2022 they couldn't achieve in 2020, and that's why it's so important that voter suppression not become the new normal and that it really is now or never to protect voting rights, because if the senate doesn't pass voting rights legislation and soon, then the elections are going to take place under voter suppression laws. they are going to take place under gerrymandered maps. they are going to take place under election subversion laws and that will become the new normal, and countless numbers of voters will be disenfranchised and the republicans will use that power as a spring board to

outright steal the election in 2024, and i thought one of the most important things the president said was that there's two sets of rules here that the republican party at the state level is passing all these anti-democracy bills through simple majority party line votes, but it requires a bipartisan super majority in the senate to protect voting rights, and he said, we have to have majority rule in america. we have to have majority rule in the u.s. senate and that is the most important takeaway from this speech today. >> jamie, what is the sort of public relations effort that comes off this speech look like? i mean, you've got -- this is what, as an ex-republican, this is what astounds me about the democrats. you've got public opinion on your side, 57% of all democrats support majority rule, 15% more of republicans support it. 60% of all americans support making it easier to vote, not harder to vote, and nobody -- i don't even know the number, but no one is for partisan cronies being in charge of anyone's

election because each side recognizes that's not good for anyone so what is the plan to sort of capitalize on public opinion, take these fresh and fiery comments, and try to get something through? >> well, we on the dnc side will have a number of folks calling into the united states senate, encouraging members to do the right thing, to be on the right side of history and to vote for this legislation. i know that there are also a number of calls. chuck schumer has been burning up the phones for the past few weeks, having conversations with members, having a number of folks also that are talking to some of the members that are still not there yet in terms of supporting this legislation, and we're going to have to continue with that full court press. and folks, just to understand it, the weight of voting rights should not have to fall on the democratic party, but the reality of the situation is that it is. the republican party is now a

fascist party that is built on fascism and fear, and they don't want everybody to vote in this country. but if democrats believe in american democracy, if we actually want this thing, this experiment to continue to work, then that means we have to step into the gap and protect that right, right now. and so, i hope, i pray, and i'm going to work my butt off to make sure that we get all of our democrats to stand in that gap and to vote on this legislation because america's future depends on it. >> jamie, if joe manchin stands in the way, is he on the side of the side that you're calling fascist? >> well, i mean, joe manchin -- joe manchin and all of the united states senators, they're going to have to look in the mirror. they're going to have to look in the mirror and really say, you know, listen, i know senator manchin. he believes that he -- he wants the senate to work. we all want the senate to work. well, you know what? one of the things that made congress work better, get rid of

political gerrymandering and guess what? the legislation that he helped to draft actually does just that. well, that's one of the single things you can do to change the demeanor of the people that you send to washington, d.c. you get rid of political gerrymandering. all of that can happen by changing the rules and allowing this vote to actually take place. if you want to get america back to where it needs to be, then pass this legislation. because this is not about democrats winning or republicans winning. this is about making sure that this thing, that our vote, which is the great equalizer, you know, jeff bezos, who's a billionaire, has the same vote as the guy who sweeps up one of his warehouses. that is the great equalizer. that's what makes america so special. and that's what we have to make sure that we defend in this nation. >> jamie harrison, ari berman, thank you both so much for starting us off. donna sticks around.

when we come back, how far the january 6th committee can go in holding the twice-impeached disgraced ex-president accountable. increasingly seems to come down to the potential cooperation of former vice president mike pence. we have brand-new reporting to tell you about on the growing tension between the pence camp and the committee. and there's some brand-new subpoenas from the january 6th committee to tell you about as well. plus, the can't-miss, must-watch moment from dr. fauci's testimony on capitol hill today when he confronted rand paul for his monstrous ways. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. ways "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. [bacon sizzles] [bacon sizzles] ♪ [electronic music plays] ♪

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there's some breaking news in the last hour to tell you about on the investigation into the january 6th insurrection. the house select committee announced a brand-new round of subpoenas for three more people involved in the planning of the rally that preceded the attack. we'll tell you about that. the committee is demanding records and testimony from andy sirabian and arthur schwartz. both of them are strategists and advisor to donald trump jr. who spoke with him and others about the rally. the third is ross worthington, the fourth white house official who allegedly helped draft the ex-president's now infamous speech delivered at the rally at the ellipse before the looins. "the new york times" has details on what sound like growing tensions behind its effort to get former vice president mike pence on the record. he appears undecided at this point about whether to cooperate with the investigation. we learned late last week that the committee plans to ask pence this month to appear

voluntarily, seeking testimony about the pressure he faced from trump to block the certification of president joe biden's win. even as the crowd chanted for his hanging, that could add to the committee's growing consideration to make a criminal referral of trump to the justice department. from that "times" report, quote, in recent weeks, pence is said by people familiar with his thinking to have grown increasingly disillusioned with the idea of voluntary cooperation. he has told aides that the committee has taken a sharp partisan turn but openly considering the possibility for criminal referrals to the justice department about trump and others. on top of that, this, quote, pence, they said, has grown annoyed that the committee is publicly signaling that it has secured a greater degree of cooperation from his top aides than it actually has. something he sees as part of a pattern of democrats trying to turn his team against trump. joining us now is "new york times" washington correspondent mike schmidt whose reporting we just read from and betsy

woodruff swan, national correspondent for politico, both msnbc contributors. mike, tell us about the state of conversations or negotiations or however you would characterize it between the former vice president and the 1/6 committee. >> so, dating back to this summer, pence's long-time lawyer, richard cohen, engaged with the committee, and they had these informal discussions in which they talked about this, and cohen made clear that pence was sort of undecided, uncommitted, and what has happened is that, look, mike pence is most concerned about his political viability coming into 2024. he knows that a year after the insurrection, he, you know, donald trump is still more popular than he is, and he does not want to get crosswise with trump, and because of that, he is now telling, you know, people that he's less inclined to go along with cooperating voluntarily with the committee

because he thinks that the committee is trying to use the issue of criminal referrals the way that it is aggressively talked about the criminal code and talked about, you know, different crimes that the justice department should prosecute as a concerning development to him and it's something that, you know -- a lot of politics, accusations all around. what this will set up is the question of whether the committee will subpoena pence. if pence says, formally, no, i'm not going to voluntarily cooperate, will the committee subpoena him and what would that subpoena fight look like? and how much could that draw out the investigation? >> mike schmidt, how much of this is sort of pence on one shoulder, you know, the guy that had to call dan quayle to say, do i overthrow the will of the american people or don't i, former vice president, and how much of this is, you know, i finally found something to hide behind. liz cheney and bennie thompson

keep talking about a criminal referral. did he really want to cooperate and now he has an excuse or is he kind of always being pulled into doing the right thing because he really wants to be president? >> i don't know. i do think that mike pence really wants to be president. and really wants to run. you know, regardless of what donald trump may do. at the same time, i think he has his finger quite on the base of the republican party and understands what the consequences for him politically would be if he is seen as cooperating against trump. i think that, you know, as we reported, pence was irritated by the fact that there have been stories out there and, you know, individuals on the committee talking about this unprecedented or some, you know, high level of cooperation from pence folks when the key witness, marc short, was subpoenaed by the committee, and still hasn't spoken with the committee, and in reporting for our story, we found a clip of marc short in

december on fox news saying pretty, pretty harsh things about the committee, about how he didn't trust the committee, going after bennie thompson and adam schiff in ways that were pretty hostile. >> when in rome. betsy, i want to show you what alice ferris said on cnn about pence world. >> if there's something you should know about pence world, it is that they are by the book, kind of institutionalists by nature. so, i think if he were to receive a subpoena, he would absolutely comply. were he to go in, in a voluntary capacity, i think it could be perceived as he was trying to help the committee, whereas i think he wants to, you know, do what he's obligated to under the constitution, contribute to the oversight role, but i think they're more likely to get information from him with the subpoena. >> so, i talked to another sort of long-time pence watcher last night, betsy, who said there's

so much posturing going on, and i remember this with john bolton in the first impeachment, that there was this dance with, you know, i won't go in and testify against him, but if i'm subpoenaed and if the subpoena fight goes all the way to court and congress wins, then i'll go. i mean, how much of this is posturing, and how much of this is, you know, over his dead body which could have come to pass if the trump supporters had had their way and hung mike pence? will pence testify before the 1/6 committee? >> i think it certainly depends on whether or not there's a subpoena. it's hard to imagine, as alyssa farah said that pence would go in voluntarily and share information with this committee so that very much means that the ball is in the committee's court. this question of whether or not to issue a subpoena and force a former vice president to testify is something that's going to be sensitive, even to a committee that's shown a really high level of comfort with using muscular tools to secure the testimony of

senior former white house officials. the question for folks like liz cheney and bennie thompson, those two top members of the committee, is, do they want to take -- to establish a norm of issuing a subpoena of someone who was a former vice president? they may very well decide that they're comfortable establishing that norm and that what happened on january 6th was so appalling and so awful that it justifies taking that step. but i can guarantee you, it's not a decision that they're going to be able to make in a quick or a knee jerk way. it is going to be one of the more complicated and thought-out deliberative decisions that this committee faces. >> betsy, there are some new subpoenas. i saw in your twitter feed, there's already some pushback to them. first tell us who these folks are and what some of the feedback is. >> yeah, that's right. there are three new people who have now had subpoenas issued to them. arthur schwartz, andy and ross worthington. the third person in that group was a white house speech writer

who, according to the committee's documents, helped put together the speech that trump delivered at the ellipse on january 6th. it's a no brainer as to why the committee would want to talk to him about that. very historic speech that the then-president delivered. sirabian and schwartz, meanwhile, are two very close, long-time allies and advisors to donald trump jr. they're about as close as it gets to the president's oldest son and the fact that they have now been subpoenaed signals that the committee appears to be homing in on don junior himself. now, sirabian's lawyer has already issued a statement saying he plans to cooperate with the committee within reason, at least to some extent. him immediately saying that within minutes of the subpoena being issued is something that the committee is going to see certainly as heartening, but in the same breath, his lawyer said they're puzzled as to why the committee would issue this subpoena of him, because, according to the lawyer, he just

wasn't involved in the plans for january 6th. additionally, caroline wren, a name that's probably familiar to your viewers, also somebody that's been subpoenaed by the committee, a republican fund-raiser who helped raise money for the rally at the ellipse on january 6th. caroline wren gave me a statement saying that sirabian and schwartz just weren't involved in the planning for the january 6th rally. of course, it's always possible that the select committee knows something these folks don't know so we'll be keeping a close eye on any further information or detail that they share about those two folks but the pushback regarding these subpoenas was instant in a way that it hasn't been in the past. that said, one thing that was really interesting in these letters that went with the subpoenas to them is that they suggested -- the committee suggested, first, that there was tension regarding some of the people who may have wanted to speak at the rally, tension regarding alex jones's connection and second, it suggested that some of the people who spoke at the rally got paid to do so or might have

gotten paid, a really interesting new detail. >> mike, you both sort of have this body of reporting that sits at the potential for the doj investigation to at some point maybe intersect with the committee and i want to ask you about a bit of reporting in this pence story that caught our attention, mike. you guys write this. in plea negotiations, federal prosecutors recently began asking defense lawyers for some of those charged in january 6th cases whether their clients would admit in sworn statements that they stormed the capitol, believing that trump wanted them to stop pence from certifying the election. in theory, such statements could help connect the violence at the capitol directly to trump's demands that pence help stave off his defeat. what does that sort of line of reporting lead to, or what does that point to, or what more questions do you have about that, mike? >> so, given the fact that the justice department has said so little in terms of, you know, outside of court, about the

investigations into january 6th, you have to look to the court documents for clues. and if you look at them, what you see is an emerging pattern of sorts. a couple of examples where individuals who are pleading are saying, as part of their plea agreements, the facts that they are attesting to, among them is that they were going into the building to stop mike pence and doing so after being told, you know, by donald trump or thinking that donald trump wanted them to do that. it is at the most basic rudimentary level of these investigations. these are rioters who are being prosecuted. but what you see and you know, if we can play federal prosecutor for a second, is a building of a fact pattern if you were trying to get to the issue of obstruction of congress. so, if they were going to look at the issue of obstruction of congress, looking at the criminality of that would

individuals who went into the capitol, saying they did that to stop mike pence after hearing donald trump tell them to do that, you know, if you were getting to the obstruction of congress, having those individuals would be key to trying to prove that case. so, why is it that the justice department asks these defense lawyers to include it in the plea deals? is it because these are being aggressive prosecutors? or is there something larger going on? we don't know. >> and it's so interesting as the pressure is sort of at highest levels for merrick garland. it's just a really interesting piece in the reporting. mike schmidt, betsy woodruff swan, thank you so much for spending time with us today. when we come back, dr. fauci's warning to rand paul to stop with the attacks. fauci says they have kindled the crazies who have threatened his life. that's next. who have threatened life that's next.nsitiv ity & gum gives us the dual action effect

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senate hearing on the federal government's response to the omicron surge took a sharp turn into the realm of personal spears and disinformation and potential violence today when, guess who, senator rand paul took over the questioning of dr. anthony fauci. rand paul started in with his attacks on fauci over the origins of the coronavirus, all much like the scenes that have played out at covid hearing after covid hearing. disinformation and distraction from rand paul, pushback from dr. fauci, who says he is there to focus on science, not play political games with rand paul.

only this time, fauci had the receipts and a sobering warning about the consequences of rand paul's extremism and lies. >> what happens when he gets out and accuses me of things that are completely untrue is that all of a sudden that kindles the crazies out there, and i have threats upon my life, harassment of my family, and my children with obscene phone calls because people are lying about me. now, i guess you could say, that's the way it goes, i can take the hit. well, it makes a difference, because as some of you may know, just about three or four weeks ago, on december 21st, a person was arrested who was on their way from sacramento to washington, d.c., at a speed stop in iowa. and they asked the -- the police asked him where he was going,

and he was going to washington, d.c., to kill dr. fauci, and they found, in his car, an ar-15 and multiple magazines of ammunition. because he thinks that maybe i'm killing people. so, i ask myself, why would senator want to do this? so, go to rand paul's website, and you see, fire dr. fauci, with a little box that says, contribute here. you can do $5, $10, $20, $100, so you are making a catastrophic epidemic for your political gain. >> this is where we are. donna edwards is back with us, and joining our conversation is clint watts, former consultant to the fbi's counterterrorism division and now a distinguished research fellow at the foreign policy research institute and an msnbc national security analyst. this threat is terrifying, and

the targeting of dr. fauci and our scientists has real-world consequences, clint. >> that's right, nicole. any time someone with an outsized voice like a political leader or what we would say, 15 years ago, a terrorist leader who constantly dehumanizes or makes threats where you're actually targeting someone, sure, you can say, he's not saying, go do this. but what happens is, there is somebody out there that has a propensity to violence that now knows where to point their angst and if they're upset about vaccines or the pandemic or just fans of the person that's voicing these dehumanizing remarks, well, they start to be undertaken, and they start to pursue violence. that's exactly the scenario dr. fauci was talking about. especially when those attacks are sustained for months and now years, and i think that's where we see this danger of violence. we saw it on january 6th. we saw it with governor gretchen whitmer in the lead-up to election 2020. and so, this is a consistent thing where we have political

leaders in this country who want to dehumanize targets but not just targets, government workers, appointed officials that are trying to work in the best interests of the country and are being put at risk by the thousands of people out there that hear that message, some, a very small minority out there, want to undertake violence and it's almost impossible to predict or prevent, creating an enormous law enforcement challenge, so i just don't know where this ends without someone being hurt or a major loss to this country in terms of human life. >> you know, donna, it's so chilling, listening to clint talk and then to remind myself he's talking about dr. anthony fauci. dr. fauci was on the job when i worked in the government. he's someone who probably never thought he'd brush up against the most sort of extreme elements in this version of the most extreme version of the republican party in my lifetime, but -- and i felt this way watching officers dunn and fanone and gonell get batted around like a political pinata

after their testimony. there is something different about attacks against sort of partisans who are in politics and attacks against people who are sort of deep inside our state health agencies trying to get out the guidance and the evolving science during a pandemic. how do you try to re-erect guardrails that have just been demolished by this republican party? >> yeah, i don't know. i mean, it's hard to know how you put that genie back in the bottle. i think that clint is right in saying that the potential and the opportunity for actual violence, for actual harm is right there. and clearly, we saw that on january 6th. but in the case of dr. fauci, he's been a career public servant. he's in his 80s. he has done nothing but serve and protect the public health of americans and people around the world. and telling the truth about this

pandemic and what we need to do, and so it really is so disheartening, and you could actually hear the emotion in dr. fauci's voice when he talked about the threats to not just himself but to his family and all to raise money on a website promoting lies and conspiracies. rand paul doesn't deserve to serve in the united states senate, and he certainly doesn't deserve to be given a free hand to attack dr. fauci. >> we have to sneak in a quick break, but on the other side of dr. fauci and morons and hot mics. don't go anywhere. we'll show it to you. hot mics don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere. we'll show it to you highly recommend it! zifans love zicam's unique zinc formula. it shortens colds! zicam. zinc that cold!

we're back with donna everetts and clint watts. attacking dr. fauci is contagious. here he is dealing with questions about his financial disclosures. >> what are you talking about? my financial disclosures are public knowledge and have been so. you are getting amazingly wrong information. >> i cannot find, our office cannot find them. where would they be if they're public knowledge? where? >> it is totally accessible to you if you want it. >> for the public, is it accessible? >> to the public.

you're totally incorrect. >> senator marshall, dr. fauci has answered you, it is public information, and he's happy to give it to you if you would ask. >> what a moron. jesus christ. >> that's dr. fauci at the end of questioning about his -- i guess financial disclosures, which anyone that works in the government has to turn in every year, and it wasn't a thing during the obama years. it is a thing, i'm sure, for dr. fauci every year. so hear him acting human there, what a moron, at the end, it's just this exasperation. we have the highest surge of covid, yet those questions seem like fair game, what are we doing about omicron, what is the five-day isolation as opposed to ten based on. but, no, they're on bizarre political tangents that seems to be fueling the disinformation sphere more than the pandemic information sphere now.

>> that's absolutely right. nicolle, the questions bring on scrutiny that is unwarranted, and also completely available publicly. the problem is for the audience that receives that information, they don't go through and actually evaluate that. it's just a conspiracy that's being advanced, the most recent version of hillary clinton's emails or whatever it might be. all of these sorts of things, in the hashtag universe this is just a conspiracy. all the audience sees are questions from that senator. that senator, i would hope, knows that in some sense, i hope he knows that that is total available information, he's just using it for political gain. if not, he's just wildly income tent and so is his staff. it erodes trust in elected officials at a time when omicron has taken over and hospitalizations are at a peak as of today. we've got cases at all-time highs and we're trying to manage

through this pandemic. none often it is helpful for that senator's constituents, none of it is good for the country, and it cripples our ability to respond to the next pandemic. why do it? it's only for personal political gain. >> i think we're past the point of needing my more evidence to show how disinterested in governing the republican party is, but today was another example of just that. >> well, this senator knows full well because he files financial disclosures, as do all senior officials file financial disclosures. anybody can google and find them. and i agree with dr. fauci, there are no truer words, what a moron. >> we'll have to leave it there. thank you so much for spending time with us today. quick break for us. we'll be right back. r us we'll be right back.

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these truly extraordinary times. we're grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. >> welcome to "the beat." i am ari melber. tonight we're tracking a new headache for rudy giuliani and a new special report on one of the most pressing issues facing america. it's something we've all been working on here on "the beat" to bring you. one of our most detailed reports tonight. so that is coming up. we begin right here, with the president making news tonight by pushing a solution that he has long held back on, for which he says is now crucial for our democracy itself. joe biden, the defender of so many senate traditions, saying the anti-majority obstruction against voting