warren got very close to this yesterday, as well, starting to say that they have no problem supporting senators manchin and sinema's primary challenges if they continue to block what democrats are trying to do. very interesting. definitely a shift in the narrative from some of these members who normally stay together, particularly when you're trying to pass tough legislation. >> yeah. it speaks, certainly, to the rising tensions within the democratic party. thank you. thanks to all of you. thank you for getting up "way too early." "morning joe" starts now. the mob was fed lies. they were provoked by the president and other powerful people. and they tried to use fear and violence to stop a specific proceeding of the first branch of the federal government, which they did not like. but we pressed on. we stood together and said an

angry mob would not get veto power over the rule of law in our nation, not even for one night. >> another flashback to exactly one year ago today, as mitch mcconnell took the senate floor ahead of donald trump's second impeachment trial. just a day before joe biden would be sworn in as the 46th president, joe. >> yeah. it was high drama. >> yeah. >> hard to believe, again, how much has happened over the past year. i will say, willie, that we -- we'll show kevin mccarthy, lindsey graham, those who have changed their positions, and mitch mcconnell has stayed the same. he still condemns it. we've seen mike rounds, senator from south dakota, come out over the past week, saying, "come on, folks. come on. he's lying. this was a fair election. joe biden is president."

thune, several other people, have done that. it is important to underline that, that 93 senators called out donald trump and his lies. you have more and more people doing it every day. i understand there's this crazy underworld in the -- online, as well as leading the house of representatives on the republican side. but it is important to remember that donald trump even -- and you look at the ron desantis fight. a lot of things coming at donald trump right now. i'm not so sure that he is going to be able to run again with a unified republican party. >> well, yeah. donald trump, as of two days ago, was attacking mitch mcconnell in public. lets you know how he feels on mcconnell's stance on january 6th and the claims that the 2020 election was stolen. this was a moment in time, january 19th, one year ago

today. we were on the eve of this inauguration with a city shut down because, two weeks prior, there had been an attack on the united states capitol. it was ringed in national guardsmen. the sitting president of the united states, donald trump, did not show up, of course, at the inauguration. extraordinary circumstances. you're right, there have been some, and we do say some, a handful of republicans who have made clear from that day that what happened on the insurrection, on the 6th, was wrong, that donald trump continues today to say the election was stolen is wrong, but the overwhelming majority in congress, media, and online stand by that lie and go along with the ride with donald trump. >> yeah. so many in the media who actually were horrified by what happened on january 6th, who knows he is lying, they're still going along for the ride just because of viewers. same thing with people online. a lot of podcasters who will say offline they know he is lying.

they'll spew those lies to their audience members. of course, it creates a situation where 35%, 40% of republicans -- or 40% of the country still believe the lie, mika. i want to keep underlining this pause we need to focus where the focus needs to be, that the united states senate, among republicans, you have most republicans who call out this lie. you have the insurrectionist caucus. a couple of people i'm surprised haven't actually been investigated for their responsibility in stirring up the insurrection. and you have ron johnson, who, at times, i think doesn't even know what area code he's in. >> right. >> so i'm not sure there's any -- what you can attach to him. but the biggest problem really does lie in the house, among house republicans, and among a lot of really horrible people online and in the media who know they're lying about this, and they keep doing it anyway. >> yeah, i agree with you. but there is no doubt donald

trump has put this country in a bad position as we plow through all these different questions remaining from his presidency. along with joe, willie, and me, we have white house correspondent for "politico," and co-author of "the playbook," eugene daniels. senior political correspondent for the "washington examiner," david drucker joins us. congressional correspondent for the "washington post," jackie alemany is here. and the host of "way too early" and white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire joins us. so the new york state attorney general's office is seeking to take legal action to force donald trump and two of his children to comply with the civil investigation into the financial dealings of the former president's company. in a series of tweets posted late last night, attorney general letitia james wrote, no one in this country can pick and choose if and how the law applies to them. we have uncovered significant evidence indicating that the trump organization used

fraudulent and misleading asset valuations on multiple properties to obtain economic benefits, including loans, insurance coverage, and tax deductions for years. donald trump, donald trump jr., and ivanka trump have all been closely involved in the transactions in question, so we won't tolerate their attempts to evade testifying in this investigation. the ag's office saying it is focusing on the monetary values of six trump properties, in particular, and the trump brand as a whole. in total, the organization is accused of inflating its assets on those properties by more than $1 billion. her office added that it has not yet reached a final decision regarding whether this evidence merits legal action. attorneys for the trump organization and the trumps did not immediately respond to requests for comments overnight.

last month, james' office issued subpoenas for the three trumps after another of the president's sons, eric, testified for the probe back in 2020. after those subpoenas were issued, trump family lawyers filed a federal lawsuit to halt the civil investigation, claiming it was politically motivated. this investigation is separate, but it is running parallel to a criminal investigation into the trump organization, being led by the manhattan district attorney's office. in that case, the company and its long time chief financial officer, weisselberg, were charged and pled not guilty. a lot seeming to close in on some potential members of the trump family and, of course, donald trump himself. >> well, and, jonathan lemire, this is no surprise at all.

anybody that's ever known donald trump or spent more than five minutes with him know, if you're out golfing with him, he'll give you a cup of water and say, "see that cup of water? you know, my picture is on it. it is worth $10,000." he exaggerating everything. he is constantly overinflating the value of things. getting in fights with "forbes" on how high he should be on the list. it's really actually just bee another thing donald trump does in the light of day. will the attorney general, the district da, be able to apply any charges, any penalties for donald trump, doing what he has been doing now for 50 years. >> yeah, this is what he's always done. certainly, as a political candidate, you'd have a rally, and he'd say, "not only was there a crowd there, but there were 20,000 people outside." the reporter would be outside and go, "no, there isn't." he exaggerates.

everything is the biggest, the best, the most expensive, and the most valuable. it is part of why his branding is so important. he tried to make this sell as a successful businessman, which was his original pitch in the 2015/2016 campaign. but this predates politics. that's what we're getting at here. one of my -- one of the more noteworthy trump exaggerations is trump tower on 5th avenue where he lived a long time. he exaggerated the height by ten stories. he said it was a 68-story building, though it was 58 stories. >> just because. >> the attorney general notes, and switching to a more serious matter, his penthouse in trump tower, he claims it is 30,000 square feet. it is actually about 11,000 square feet. he tripled. he exaggerated by a factor of three. those things, seemingly, are harmless enough, except they're not in this case. when you inflate evaluations of property, of your businesses,

whether it's for investors or tax purposes, that's a serious matter. it hasn't come to criminal charges just yet, but, certainly, that's why attorney general letitia james is trying to use this moment to force testimony from not just the former president but two of his three adult children. >> willie, we've heard from legal scholars. of course, donald trump exaggerating the value of things actually, at times, can be harmless, but there are legal ramifications, also, obviously, if you're doing it to get bank loans or if you're doing it and then undervaluing your assets to the irs. obviously, a lot of implications here. as we're talking about him exaggerating the size of his building, it takes us back to 9/11, where as the buildings were falling and the rest of new york and the world was mourning the loss, it was donald trump that got on a telephone and said, "now, i have the largest building, the tallest building

down at world trade center." of course, that wasn't even true. >> i think he called into "larry king" to make that declaration on september 11th. by the way, you're kidding with the water with his face on it. >> no, i'm not. >> anyone who has been at the rink in central park, each kindergartener is given a bottle of trump ice with his face on it. a nice take home for the kids. but he builds into what he says is his brand into the value of the company. if it is a $20 million property, he says because it is his, it is $100 million. that's part of what letitia james is combing through here. that's one piece of the civil trouble for donald trump. meanwhile, the january 6th select committee yesterday issued subpoenas for former trump attorneys. rudy giuliani, sidney powell, jenna ellis, and boris epshteyn, all who reportedly filed challenges to overturn the results of the 2020 election. documents and testimony on their claims of election fraud and attempts to delay certification

of the election results. the committee believes giuliani and epshteyn were in contact with then president trump on january 6th about delaying the certification of president biden's election. giuliani also was reportedly at the so-called war room at the willard hotel in washington the day before. that panel also seeking information from sydney powell on efforts to have then president trump direct the also, there was claims the vice president had the authority to reject electoral votes. in a statement, the attorney for rudy giuliani called it a, quote, grandstand thatrical political play, since the four are prevented from providing information. they must submit by february 4th and be deposed by february the

8th. so, jackie, the select committee continues to do its work. we've seen bold-faced names, but these attorneys, led by rudy giuliani, were the ones making the arguments in court, not very well, and then backing away from them, by the way, when a judge would confront them, in pennsylvania, for example. they were making the arguments, though, that there was fraud in this election and that donald trump should have won. >> that's exactly right, willie. these four lawyers were perhaps the biggest proponents and disseminators of these theories and lawsuits that propagated the false claims of election fraud. they worked very hard from mid-november up until january 6th, and even after january 6th, to implement these various plans to overturn the results of the 2020 election. everything sort of seems to be coming back full circle to the willard hotel, where there was a command center that trump's outside legal team was working

out of a block down from the white house. now, you see lawmakers who are on this committee, piecing together all of the information they know and trying to connect it back to former president trump. you saw in some of the subpoenas that were -- some of the letters that transmitted the subpoenas to these lawyers yesterday that lawmakers want more information on the evidence that these lawyers were making to use the claims. specifically in the letter to sidney powell, one of the lawyers who advocated that president trump get the voting machines. they asked for information on various calls and meetings that giuliani, epstein, and ellis had with the former president directly. >> it is going to be so interesting, jackie, because trump world actually blames giuliani for everything. maybe not donald trump himself, but those around donald trump say, this would have never happened but for rudy giuliani. donald trump, you know -- donald

trump should actually stay as far away from giuliani as possible. the senate should have a bust of giuliani up because he is the only man in american history responsible for two impeachments. first, of course, ukraine, and then these lies leading up to january 6th. of course, the burden falls on donald trump's shoulders solely here. but it was giuliani, the enabler, who kept feeding him these crack pot mr. pillow conspiracy theories that did really push him along. >> yeah, that is true, joe, but at the end of the day, you know, there were so many other people in trump world that enabled and executed a lot of this behavior. the people like chief of staff mark meadows who allowed sidney powell and rudy giuliani and mike lindell and patrick burn, all of these fringe figures, to come into the oval office and meet with the president repeatedly after the november election. the trump campaign that ultimately paid the fees for

these people who were working out of the willard hotel. they paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for months long stays at the willard. so it was definitely a joint collaboration, although rudy giuliani is a very key part of this investigation that the committee is now honing in on. >> it'll be fascinating. it'll be fascinating to see. you know, it is interesting, eugene daniels. these people that we name are all facing their own challenges now. one of the things that i'm sure you hear, i hear all the time, is that people can just lie. they just go out there, everybody in trump world gets away scot-free. not the case here, if you look at giuliani, powell, and others. they're facing a flurry of massive lawsuits from dominion. there have been disbarment. there have been other charges talked about against them. i mean, this is a group of people under siege for the lies

they spread. >> for sure. there's been for months and months before, even before the election, there were all these lies that were starting about what was going to happen in the election. as we got on the day of the election, you have rudy giuliani basically saying to president trump and his aids, just go out and say we won, right? that started there, and that continued. so what a lot of people are doing, not just this committee, but also people or companies like dominion and organizations, trying to make there be some accountability for lying about something as big as an election in this country. one thing we know, it doesn't seem like in the republican party there will be political blowback, right? folks are looking for there to be legal ramifications for lying about the election, spreading things that are dangerous to democracy. you even look at someone like sidney powell, who even the trump organization, the folks, allies, starts to back away from here.

rudy giuliani was like, you know what, she may be talking about something else, that we aren't, when she was talking about the foreign factors, some of whom were dead. in talking about those things. so that is a huge part of this. i will say, when you talk to folks, there's not a lot of hope that there's going to be, you know, at the end of this, some legal ramifications for some of these folks. i think that might be just as people are kind of having low expectations, that something else will happen. that's where we are. >> then there is the impact on the republican party. yesterday on this show, we played a sound bite of donald trump when he was asked, you know, in the midterms, what's the big issues? what's the platform? he had no answer. david drucker, this plays into your piece entitled "going from pretty close to no on chris

sununu's senate bid. you write this. he's on the verge of delivering the republican party its biggest recruiting coupe of 2022. then he talked it over with republican senators. they were all, for the most part, content with the speed at which they weren't doing anything. it was very clear that we just have to hold the line for two years. okay. so i'm just going to be a roadblock for two years? that's not what i do, sununu said.ununu was bothered by republicans' seeming inability to answer this question. i said, okay, so if we're going to get stuff done, we win the white house back. why didn't you do it in 2017 and 2018? how did the republicans sununu spoke with answer his questions? crickets. crickets, the governor said. they had, joe, no answer. that's a big problem for the

party. >> well, it is. and the first part of that describes what has been wrong with washington for the past 20 years, for the entirety of this century. people waiting for the other party to get out of the white house and just acting like a roadblock. but what i find so damning, especially damning here, david, is what governor sununu said in the second part of that. he asks the question that, of course, i want republicans to answer every day. because they were in power in '17 and '18. they owned washington, d.c. but you go back and look at the quotes republican senators made when they were asked about building a wall. they only talked about a wall when they were out of power. they get in power, and suddenly lindsey graham is saying building a wall makes absolutely no sense. john cornyn says, yeah, it's crazy. republican senators, they didn't want to do any of this stuff. they didn't want to build a wall. they had complete power and

didn't want to do it. waited until democrats got in charge, and then, suddenly, they start parroting donald trump again on these insane ideas that none of them wantedununulasers , they don't want to do anything when they're out of power, and they're afraid to do anything when they're in power. >> this is most clear looking at the issue of debts, deficits, and spending, right? the only party in washington that cares about spending and the expanding national debt is the party that doesn't have the power to spend any money. republicans are no different. it's a little bit different for them because they really make this one of their issues. they talk about the need to get federal spending under control, reduce debts and deficits because of the impact they have on the economy. when they're in power to do so, they have a really hard time doing so. i think in some sense, what republicans were telling governor sununu was smart in this regard. one of the things that's gotten

republicans into so much trouble with their base is overpromising and underdelivering. as i watched republicans campaign in 2010, 2014, and even 2016, they made a lot of promises about what they would do once they were in power. particularly when democrats still controlled the white house, between 2010 and 2014, still controlled senate. republicans ran up against a brick wall because democrats in the senate had no interest in helping republicans accomplish anything on their agenda. they obviously disagreed with president obama on key items. nothing got done. instead of republican voters saying, well, i'll give you a pass because you didn't have enough control in washington to do what you wanted, they got mad at them for overpromising and underdelivering. so if the message in this midterm election in 2022 is, look, we're going to hold the line and stop president biden from doing anything you don't like, at least from a political standpoint, they're guarding against a backlash from their own pace. then there's, though, this issue of exactly what do voters want

from politicians on capitol hill? do they want them to work with the other side when the other side has more power than them and help them accomplish something, or will they be okay with them holding the line? i feel, joe, when you served in congress in the '90s, i think the idea of getting nothing done was worse from a voter perspective and from a politician perspective than helping the other side accomplish something, even if you didn't totally like it. i feel like that script has been flipped. the worse thing you can do is cooperate with the other side. often, your own voters will not give you credit for even incremental progress. and i have to say, you look at how democrats have handled their majorities in 2021. they had a bipartisan infrastructure package, and they held it up because they were trying to get more and more that wasn't available because republicans weren't going to help them. that one thing they had with

republican input, they weren't interested in doing right away. so i think this is a problem that afflicts both sides of the aisle. clearly, we see it here, in particular, with republicans. >> well, for democrats, they're either going to figure out they have a 50/50 split in the senate or they're going to keep getting frustrated. they can go for $6 trillion bills if they want so. they'll never pass. they can try to get 87 things into a $1.75 trillion bill. it'll never pass. if they go for universal pre-k, a standalone bill, it'll probably pass. they won't get all the sweeping reforms they want to get done. it's a 50/50 split. they need to win more seats. that simple. a lot of people haven't figured that out in the democratic party in washington, d.c. if they don't figure it out over the next year, it'll be even tougher than this year. it is simple. it is math. bismarck said politics. it's the art of the possible. it's the art of the possible. that's what they need to start focusing on. willie, it is interesting listening to david talking about the deficits and debt.

you know, we obviously kept banging that drum when republicans were in power, saying, you can't just worry about deficits and debt when democrats are in the white house. you've got to worry about it all the time. they never did. nobody would ever talk about the deficit. nobody would ever talk about the debt. they passed these massive tax cuts for the richest americans. they weren't paid for. there's no way they were going to generate enough revenue. put us deeper and deeper and deeper into debt. now, when i hear republicans even starting to open their mouth about deficits and debt after what they did during the bush years and the trump years, you just have to laugh. there's no consistency there at all. there are no small government conservatives left in the republican party, at least in washington, d.c. none. >> yeah, those deficit hawks seem to go into hiding when the republicans are in power. for example, when donald trump got through the tax cut. then they come back out when a democratic president comes in. david, this is a fascinating piece because it says so much, not just about the republican

party but about washington. i'm curious, talking to governor sununu, how much of this for him, and we've heard this from other governors who say, wait a minute, i have a ceo job in my state where i get things done. i don't want to be 1 of 100 in a body whose stated objective, it seems these days, is to not just anything done. >> look, i hear this from governors all the time. they're worried about going to washington, especially in the senate, because they have six-year terms. the pace is slower. even in the days of dealmaking, things just moved at a slower pace, more deliberative pace. that's the point of the chamber. but it also shows the chamber losing some of its luster, at least in this current era, as governors look at their ability to have an impact in the united states senate. i think the other thing, too, joe and willie, when i talked to governor sununu about 2024, whether he would consider

running for president, he said it would be on the table. this isn't about whether or not there would be an appetite for him in the republican base, but it is about governors who think of themselves, if i want to create a national profile for myself, i don't necessarily need washington to do it. the media is -- has proliferated enough that there are ways for me to create a profile for myself. you can fundraise nationally online. i don't need to be a senator. don't need the platform of being a senator to go national. so i think the options are different. i do think, though, that when politicians, right or left, feel like they're going to be impactful, feel like they're going to be consequential in washington, going to washington becomes more attractive. unless you fashion yourself an activist. if you fashion yourself an activist, these days, congress is the perfect place to go. whether you're in the majority or the minority, nothing changes. you're still able to do what you want to do. get on television. talk about your issues.

just say stop to everything. >> yeah. mika, that's why we have a bunch of people in the house especially who aspire to be youtube stars and be social media stars and not legislators. >> no, no. not even close. david drucker, thank you so much for your reporting and your insight this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," the white house issues a new warning about a possible russian invasion of ukraine. we'll have the very latest on those escalating tensions, as secretary of state antony blinken prepares to meet with russia's foreign minister. plus, amid a fight over voting rights, senator joe manchin is shrugging off primary fights with the message, "bring it on." and remembering a longtime friend of the show, "vogue" legend, andre leon talley passed away yesterday. as "the new york times" put it, he went from the jim crow south to the front rows of paris

couture. more on the life of our friend and groundbreaking fashion icon, andre leon talley, just ahead. also ahead, we'll be joined by white house communications director kate bedingfield, as president biden prepares to mark one year in office. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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described himself as a godfather to the world's top supermodels, and naomi campbell to kate moss. he advocated for diversity in the fashion industry, encouraging top designers to include more black models in their shows. raised by his godmother in the jim you south, talley said he immersed himself in books and magazines at a young age, writing in his 2020 memoir, quote, my world became the glossy pages of "vogue." he also cited the glamour of jackie kennedy at her husband's presidential inauguration as a defining moment in his youth. he arrived in new york city, and less than a decade later, found himself on the front row of the fashion world. he was a guest on this show numerous times, becoming a friend to joe and me. here he is back in 2014, discussing who catches his eye in the world of fashion. >> i do think it is --

>> he has a look. >> it's who he is. so whatever you wear must reflect who you are. >> let me then -- >> you can't say it is wrong. >> i love that. >> mika and i were out yesterday, and i noticed three or four women coming -- we were sitting waiting for a friend, and i saw people coming in and out. people watching. and i noticed all these people wearing all these different things, that the ones that seemed the most put together had a simple black dress, flats, and maybe, if not pearls, something basic. >> one simple necklace. one simple accessory. chanel always said, less is more, or fake with the real. one of the best dressers, queen elizabeth ii. she is dressed appropriate for who she is. >> right. >> she's dressed because that is her uniform. it has always been her tradition. but it looks great on her, for who she is. i think she is incredibly well-dressed. >> mika, he was a great friend

to the show. we loved when he'd come on. came on with dowd, also. loved having them on. he was also a very good friend. was always so supportive. it was wonderful. he would come to events. you know, the thing i loved about him is he made -- he just made you feel better. he made you feel like anything was possible. he just had this extraordinary energy about him that made everybody around him better. >> and the energy was love. you just saw in a picture there, he came to all our events, whether it was your music, know your value, our books, willie's book. he loved to support people. he was the party. if we were at a party and he showed up, he became the party. it was all genuine, all authentic, and all based on just loving, supporting people. i was just showing jackie and

eugene, like, thousands of emails he sent me over the year, commenting on my outfits or just sending love, willie. >> yeah, he was love, wasn't he? some people just have a presence. andre had that. when he walked into any room, your eyes went to him. the gravity of the room shifted toward him. his story is extraordinary. eugene daniels, i mean, he grew up in the segregated south. a gay black man in durham, north carolina. living with his grandmother. you can imagine what that was like for him in the segregated south back then. >> yup. >> he had a vision, an escape. he'd read the pages of "vogue" magazine. he said, i want to get to wherever that is someday. i'll be dammed if he didn't do it. >> one of the things, growing up as a black gay person who wanted to be a reporter, you didn't see a lot of people who look like you, who loved like you, in any

industry, whether it be political reporting or fashion. andre leon talley for many of us black, gay reporters, we look to him as someone who reminded us, you can be yourself and do the reporter. you can, you know, be the life of the party and also very serious. >> become a huge success. >> i'm 6'3". he's 6'6". the idea of being a huge black dude that wears whatever he wants and can still be taken seriously, you know, that was a huge effect. so the passing of him is a huge loss. >> we're still taking it in, actually. can't believe it. the cause of his death has not been released. andre leon talley was 73 years old. we'll miss him so much. coming up, is the biden administration working on a scaled down version of the president's build back better plan? what the white house is saying about the new reporting on that. plus, several airlines are now cancelling flights to the u.s. amid concern that 5g wireless service could interfere with planes. we'll have more on the scramble and the safety concerns.

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through projectup, comcast is committing $1 billion so millions more students, past... and present, can continue to get the tools they need to build a future of unlimited possibilities. sir, it is not safe to use electronic devices yet. >> you're the waitress. >> turn it back on! turn it back on! >> that was a "simpsons" from almost a quarter century ago. of course, predicting the future again. he wasn't using 5g, but, still, cell phone officials warned -- rolling out the 5g. new, faster, 5g cell service. but the planes, they don't work.

so it's a baaning act. what do you want? there are concerns the signals could interfere with critical cockpit technology the pilots need to fly the big birds in the sky. 5g service is still going to go live for the rest of the country today. we're getting the latest from nbc news correspondent tom costello. >> reporter: with the clock ticking down to the nationwide 5g rollout, a last-minute deal to avoid an airline crisis. at&t and verizon both say they will temporarily limit or delay turning on 5g cell towers that are close to certain airports. the announcement comes after ten airline ceos urged the white house to intervene, warning of catastrophic disruptions affecting hundreds of thousands of airline passengers. if a 2 mile buffer zone isn't created around airport 5g sites. president biden applauded the agreement, coming after years of political infighting involving the fcc, faa, the airlines,

trump and biden administrations, and competing agendas. but concern, the new fifth generation of cell service, 5g, operates on a radio spectrum that could bleed over and interfere with the plane's altimeter. the altimeters bounce a signal off the ground to give pilots precise distance off the ground. >> 50, 40, 30. >> reporter: critical for landing in poor visibility. the faa told pilots they would not be able to use altimeters at more than 80 airports near 5g sites, including large airport hubs in houston, dallas, la, new york, chicago, and seattle. the airlines warned that would lead to massive delays, diversions, and cancellations. >> faa has to go airport by airport, runway by runway, to do an analysis and clear the runways at airports so we can safely fly. >> reporter: the cell phone industry, which delayed the rollout twice and says 5g is safe. at&t took aim at the faa, saying, we are frustrated by the

faa's inability to do what nearly 40 countries have done, which is to safety deploy 5g technology without disrupting aviation services. >> bottom line is, we've got to get this done safely. right now, every indication is it's not been tested and it is not safe for a full rollout. >> i really don't want to hear tech companies that want to make billions and billions of more dollars comparing the united states to other countries. oh, they're doing this in other countries? yeah, you look at our safety record when it comes to commercial airliners. there is no comparison. so, you know, i don't understand what the balancing is act. it is safety first. safety last. first all the way to the end. they're going to have to figure out a safer way to do this. let's bring in hugh odom, former attorney for at&t, part of vertical consultants, representing participants and property owners who release the

rights for cellular sites to be built on their properties. also with us, economic analyst and aviation expert, we'll say, steve rattner. steve, of course, has been an experienced pilot and been around airplanes for decades now. so let's start with this, hugh. what's the biggest concern right now as far as implementation of 5g, and do you think some of the concerns are overstated? >> well, i think with the wireless industry, it is pushing back and saying, look, this is rolling out in countries with no issue. the concern is that the faa and aviation industry has had knowledge of this for over two years. they're trying to figure out if the aviation industry would say, this is a problem out there we're having or going to have with the altimeters, as mentioned in your report, on

these airplanes. then the wireless industry can calibrate with regards of low ass -- cell sites. i don't think the wireless industry is trying to put the pastures flying into any detrimental situation. i think both sides delayed this, delayed this, and they need to find, first, what the exact problem is, and then work on a solution. >> steve, what is your take? >> similar. spectrum is like water in the colorado river. without faye dunaway and movie chinatown. it is a precious commodity. they bought this a year ago for $80 billion, and they're eager to deploy it. the faa and airlines have this problem, which is a genuine problem. the question you would rightly ask, is why did they let it sit

around this long? it is a valid question. you have the faa and fcc going back and forth between the two, each sort of advancing their own position. there have been joint working committees. there have been commissions. there's been all kinds of stuff done in the past year to try to resolve it, and it never got resolved. the end of the day, joe, as you eluded to, when the faa says it is a safety issue, it is very hard for anybody to counter that. when the airlines say, we're just not going to fly, it is very hard for anyone to counter that. so at the end of the day, the cell phone companies, in effect, blinked. there are solutions to this. they're not that complicated. you'd rightly ask, why aren't they implemented? they should have been implemented a while ago, but they weren't. i think the cell phone companies thought they'd bought this and they were just going to use this. you can change the power of the cell phone antennas, change locations. the radar altimeters can be adjusted. all of this can be made to work, it just takes some time and a

bit of money. this is a classic case of two government agencies both going toward the brink, almost going over the edge, and now having to regroup. >> steve, let me cut to the heart of the matter. as a pilot, does 5g interfere with the communication between you and the towers, between you and ground control? do cell phones in general even interfere with it? we've been turning it off for what, 25 years, putting them on airplane mode. specifically this 5g, how dangerous do you think it could be? >> i think it is a legitimate issue. there's no question about that. it only involves, as tom costello said, one particular piece of equipment called a radar altimeter, which tells you, as you get below 2,500 feet, how close to the ground you are. then it feeds that information into all kinds of other instruments in the cockpit to help you land safely. that is a legitimate concern. are planes going to start crashing all over the place? no. but if we're living as joe

suggests, in a world of zero tolerance for airplane crashes and mishaps of other sorts, it is important for these things to work well. the aviation industry has already started the process of checking -- by the way, there is not one model of radar altimeter, like there is not one model of car. you have to go altimeter by altimeter, make adjustments, see if it'll work, and clear it for service if it does. again, these are not that complicated things to fix. the problem is not that complicated to fix. it's just that it was left for the last possible moment in this game of brinksmanship between two agencies and government industries. >> yes, we want to continue living in a zero tolerance world for our airline mishaps. hugh, do you agree with steve that this is a problem that can be fixed? both sides are going to have to roll up their sleeves and get to work on it? >> i do agree.

i think that as i mentioned before, the delay is inexcusable. i think it doesn't benefit either side. the aviation industry has a safety issue. the wireless side, at&t and verizon, are saying we're behind because we can't roll out 5g 100%. as mentioned, the big issue, i think, and maybe we disagree a little bit, is the aviation industry has an older fleet with differing different filters in the altimeters, and this needs to be resolved quicker rather than slower. the wireless industry, i believe, will work with the aviation industry to resolve this issue, but we are looking at two big things. the safety issue on one side. not rolling out 5g on the -- for the u.s. nationwide costs the u.s. economy $140 million per day in economic growth. so this is something that needs to be done. and this is a precursor for

future issues for 5g, as mentioned. the bandwidth here is finite. so we're going to have other issues down the road. we need to use this as a learning tool to address that possible scenario for other rollouts and upgrades for 5g going forward. >> hugh odom and steve rattner, thank you, both, very much for coming on this morning to talk about this. and still ahead, the federal government's website where you can order free covid-19 tests is up and running. there's already a high demand. plus, the administration's new effort to get masks to millions of americans. "morning joe" is coming right back. "morning joe" is coming right back

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jackie, as we enter year two of the biden administration, some fascinating discussions are being had between the white house and moderates on capitol hill who said, okay, we tried swinging for the fences the first year and struck out. why don't we get pieces of bbb and pass it? talk about that story, what you're hearing, and whether that's a possibility. >> yeah. joe, shockingly, it's the house that's trying to break through this dysfunction that we're seeing in the institution on capitol hill that is congress right now. my colleague, mariana sotomayor, had details on the front liners, these vulnerable democrats who won districts that previously supported trump, who are trying to break up build back better into a more piecemeal approach, trying to force votes on

individual provisions like curbing the prices of prescription drugs and extending the child tax credit. i'm curious to see if president biden addresses this issue today at 4:00 p.m. the white house had wanted to take another stab at negotiations with senator manchin, but those are looking rather bleak right now. these democrats want to see the president just sort of call that quits and now take a different legislative route. >> yeah. you know, it makes so much sense, eugene. it seems to me if you're worried about the democrats in the swing districts who are going to determine whether kevin mccarthy or nancy pelosi are speaker next time, this is a good strategy. but bbb is not the only problem. obviously, there's going to be a vote tonight on voting rights. how is that going to go? >> well, it is going to fail unless there is a miracle between now and then. and i think everyone knows that. but chuck schumer, the white house, they want folks on the record on this. they want to be able to say that voters, especially black voters, you know, we tried as much as we

could to get things done. the question that you hear from advocates, and the demand, is that you can't stop here. this won't be the only thing you do. what are the next steps? the white house and senate have been coy on that. i'm told vice president harris' team has been meeting, thinking through the more coalition and public engagement they can work on. they have a lot of work to do to get voting rights done. it looks bleak. >> eugene daniel and jackie alemany, thank you both for coming on. coming up, the attorney general sends a strong message to the trumps. the latest legal action that could force the former president and two of his children to cooperate with a civil investigation. we're back in one minute. we're back in one minute

as the country continues to deal with the pandemic, the

director of the cdc says she is aiming to prove the agency's covid messaging. in her next interview, she said the cdc is not aiming to improve their messaging. >> okay. it is the top of the hour. [ laughter ] >> it's pretty funny. >> it is mixed messages. they're trying to get -- >> it is. >> maybe we want to clean it up or not. who knows? beautiful shot of the capitol. >> the sky is gorgeous. >> gorgeous. >> i love the capitol in the morning. >> have you been noticing these shots? t.j., look at this shot. do you have that new york city sunrise shot, as well? i mean, it is, like -- >> kind of not the same. >> you don't have that now? >> you don't have that now? >> it's cool. >> it's like the view of mika's penthouse apartment view. it's pretty. there it is. yeah. have any shots of pensacola, florida? got a pensacola cam?

>> no, i don't have that. >> nothing like a beautiful shot of the capitol in the morning, as the sun is coming up over washington. that's where we are this morning. >> yes, you are. >> still with us and joining the conversation, msnbc contributor mike barnicle joining us and white house editor for "politico," sam stein. along with jonathan lemire. so -- >> mika, you know, i wanted to -- i'm glad mike is here. i want to talk to him. >> please, yes. >> sweetie, you look like you have something to say. i want to hear what you have to say first. >> are you talking to mike or me? >> you. >> ah, i see. no, i was very excited about the next story because i feel like the attorney general, letitia james, has sort of been angling at this for quite some time. she seems to be on to something. that's the big story of the morning i was about to launch. but like every day on "morning joe," you interrupt me. mike barnicle, i'm glad you

showed up. >> well, we have a slight delay. >> happy to help you out. >> i apologize that we have a slight delay. so i'm really, really sorry, and i hope you'll forgive me. but if i could talk, i'm going to talk to mike for a second about the first year of joe biden's presidency. >> that's fine. >> people can stop rattling their papers while we're doing it. anyway, i'll go to jonathan lemire in a second as a story about biden's first year, but here's the difference. i'm afraid i'll be saying this an awful lot in the future. i talked about the difference between republicans campaigning and democrats campaigning for office. for democrats, it's a debate society. i can tell you, as a former republican, it is a zero-sum game. i had over all of my -- you know, the mcarthur quote. there is no second place for

victory. you play to win. you're not happy when you lose. you don't even consider losing. losing is not an option, right? so i've seen a massive difference between republicans and democrats, how they look at campaigns. also, one year into the biden administration, you know, i look at how donald trump and other republicans brag about the things they do. then i look at how democrats have been wringing their hands for a year, for a year. if donald trump had the record that joe biden had in his first year, my god, it's all we'd be hearing about. did biden screw things up? yeah, he screwed things up. i know he wanted to get out of afghanistan. the way we got out of afghanistan, i thought, was bad. we weren't ready with testing with omicron. we could put a list out there like every president, there have been first year problems. but you have a $2 trillion --

let's say it again, a $2 trillion covid relief package that saved people, saved small businesses, saved schools, retrofitted schools so that i open now. you had a $2 trillion, a bipartisan infrastructure bill, a record-setting infrastructure bill. you had an unprecedented -- and it is unprecedented in world history. you had an unprecedented vaccine rollout. well over 200 million people have been fully vaccinated in this country. yes, there are holdouts. we'll just, you know -- we pray that they'll see reason. it's still an unprecedented vaccine rollout. more federal judges appointed. by the way, these aren't talking points. this is reality. i'm not saying this to help joe biden. i'm saying this to say how bad democrats are at playing the

game of politics. you've got 40 federal judges. it's all progressives wined and bitched about for years. donald trump is destroying the federal judiciary. soon, we're going to be shackled to radiators. joe biden has gotten more federal judges in office than anybody else since ronald reagan. 40. i could go on. there are so many things that this guy did. afghanistan, yes, the first couple days, a disaster. we lost marines. that's heartbreaking. at the same time, we air lifted more people out of that country, the greatest air lift of all time. we air lifted out basically more people than live in billings, montana. mike, if i could say one more

thing. the united states of america, people love to bitch about, oh, we need to do more to help the rest of the world. the united states of america has exported more vaccines to more countries across the globe than all other countries in the world combined. so there's this record. yes, there are problems. you know what? the democrats really -- i've never seen a party screw up as badly the expectations game as democrats have this first year, just sitting in halls, bitching and moaning in front of reporters about their $6 trillion bills they passed to pass with 50 members in the senate. like, what are these people thinking? it's that casey stingle quote. can nobody here play the game? apparently, democrats can't, because there is a good record that democrats should be talking about. instead, all they're doing is whining about what they haven't

accomplished yet. >> you know, joe, it's clear that the republican party, republicans, most republicans who run for office, they're better on both sides of the ball, offense and defense. they crush their opponents. they brag about their accomplishments. the democrats are unable to do that, seemingly. i mean, what you just indicated, about the first year of the biden administration, all of it is accurate. it's all true. in terms of deliverables, the stuff that ought to move voters in terms of 2022, the fall elections coming up, i mean, they sit there paralyzed by the differences between the progressives and the moderates in both the house and the senate. but there are deliverables that the president ought to be talking about. maybe he'll talk about it later today at the press conference at 4:00 p.m. universal pre-k, child tax credit. separate them. vote on them one by one. force republicans to say no to these things that people need and people want.

but for some odd reason or other, the paralysis in the democratic party is now epidemic, in both the senate and the house. in the senate, of course, it's basically two senators, sinema and manchin holding up progress. in the house, it is a costant war between the progressives and the moderates in the house. they have this package of deliverables. they've already delivered things that have helped people, helped families survive through the virus. it's still there. the promise is still there, but they seem unable to articulate it and, worse, unable to act on it. >> you know, mika, the thing is, the democrats have 50 senators. the republicans have 50 senators. one of the great mysteries, and i want lemire to talk about this in a second, one of the great mysteries for historians, they're going to look back and say, how is it this guy ran against a dozen or so progressives? he was the only moderate.

he ran as a moderate, won as a moderate. every single progressive got rejected. like, the debates were crazy. they were talking about reimplementing busing. they wanted to give health care to illegal immigrants. like, it was so -- come across the border, and we'll give you health care. it was so wildly out of the mainstream of where about 80% of americans are. biden ran as a moderate. biden won as a moderate. biden decided. his people around him, i guess, decided that he was going to govern as a leftist. it has failed miserably in the expectations game. when he's worked, when he's gotten things done, he's gotten things done as a moderate. said, hey, let's have a bipartisan infrastructure bill. hey, let's do a bipartisan covid relief bill. hey, why don't we work on being effective in distributing vaccines? the common sense approaches, those moderate approaches, that

scranton outlook, it's worked for him. all of these attempts to be progressive have ended up failing miserably. >> so i think there's another dimension of this. i don't think it's everything, so don't, you know -- just standdown. but, i do think, for example, i completely agree with you on the messaging on afghanistan. i think the president has been doing that. i have heard him talking about afghanistan very clearly, just as you have here. but in some areas of the media, that story gets mangled. that story comes out very -- it is being treated like benghazi. there is an attention to conspiracy theories and intention, sometimes, to mangle the message in the media that i think is a small dynamic of this that is still an offshoot of the

trump administration and what has happened in this country and what has happened in the media during the time that trump came into the white house. >> yeah. well, you know, willie, though, you can't blame fox news or facebook for democrats milling around in the halls, bitching at each other in front of reporters with open mics for the past year. bitching about what they can't do. talking about, "oh, we'll have a $6 trillion bill." "okay, we'll negotiate and have a $3 trillion after we already spent $6 trillion while inflation is going up." this is not where america is. i'm just wondering, is the biden white house going to realize that, and is he going to start governing the second year on all issues, like the moderate he was when he campaigned? bill clinton learned this message, and that's why he won in '96. >> yeah. we're witnessing what you're talking about right now with voting rights, which is you had president biden and the democrats in congress right now

behaving like they came into office with a sweeping mandate and not a 50/50 split, as you point out, in the united states senate. you're not going to get everything you want at 50/50. there are going to be a couple, believe it or not, even of your own party who may not go through with everything you want to push through. that's the reality of the numbers. if you want to change that, get 60 senators in the united states senate. jonathan lemire, you're writing today in "politico" about year one. tomorrow is the anniversary of president biden's inauguration. the full picture of things. afghanistan, obviously, was a terrible exit. 13 u.s. service members died. the strike and retribution, the drone strike, the defense department killed a bunch of civilians. it was a mess. but what's the overall picture as you sift through the last 365 days, of what this administration feels like it's done? >> the biden administration has an undeniable year of accomplishment. divide it in half.

the first half, the capitol was wounded from the insurrection that happened two weeks prior in the inauguration. the first six weeks, he tried to take the temperature down in the nation after trump. he successfully got the covid relief bill done. he was able to get the vaccine distributed to the point where now any american, just about any american, can get shots and boosters if they need. this is all significant successes. but it was in the late summer period, and white house officials said this to me, they took a one-two punch. yes, the beginning of the afghanistan withdrawal didn't go well. though they stand by the decision to end the nation's longest war, the first few days were marked by tumult and bloodshed. also, they were caught off guard by the delta variant, which came racing through the country, sending death totals soaring and filling up hospitals again. it seemed to take them off their stride. in the second half of the president's first year, with the exception, the bipartisan infrastructure deal, which is a

big deal, they've stumbled. they've had a harder time with messaging. they had a rebellion in their own party with build back better and voting rights. we've seen the president's poll numbers really slip here. we have now seen omicron come back with questions as to whether they were ready with testing, even though vaccines, of course, are out there. they look at this moment, news conference today, one-year mark tomorrow, as a chance for a little reset. white house chief of staff ron klain told me for the piece that they understand that the public would not give the president a passing grade yet. there's a lot of work to be done on things like inflation and on the pandemic. the pieces of his agenda are still outstanding. he said, look, it's a four-year term, not a one-year term. they think the challenges were great when biden took office, that it's not a question of aiming too big. he says more work is to be done. >> sam stein, this morning, there is new polling out on biden's first year. what does it tell us?

>> well, we asked respondents to give him a letter grade. the reason for doing that was not to be cheeky about it but to get a measurement of just what the actual attitudes were. for instance, if it is bs and cs, people think he is doing okay but could be better. what we found was alarming for biden. a lot of people gave him fs. that's a measurement of how much hatred there is for him, especially on the right. 69% of republicans give him an f. it is much more emotional toward biden. we measured the issues, and we asked for letter grades. on the issue of unity, which is joe biden. i mean, let's not overstate it. this guy is not the most -- he's not a progressive. he is a moderate. he is a unifying figure, i think, objectively, or tries to be. he got an f by 40% of the public on that grade. that suggests either his platform is not breaking

through, his messaging is not breaking through, or voters are just not responding to the white house in a way that biden, frankly, needs them to respond. i'll say this, a cousin of what joe was saying, which is, it's not, for more at least, the theory isn't he's going too far left, though you can make the case. components of his agenda poll well in the build back better initiative. what happened here, voters wanted and elected him to restore some sense of normalcy to the country. it's been two years of a pandemic. four years of donald trump. i think a lot of voters, especially independents, were like, let's move on to something a little more normal. now, we're a year into the presidency, and as jonathan noted, in an exceptional piece -- who edited that, jonathan -- that we're not normal. we're not there. we're dealing with omicron. we have inflation concerns. the afghanistan withdrawal was not a, you know, good thing. it was, obviously, bloody. people want to get back to their normal lives. that was sort of the underlying promise of the biden campaign.

for better, mostly for worse, we're not there yet. >> i think they were blindsided by delta, sam. i think we all were blindsided by delta. americans wanted to return to normal. he had his mission accomplished moment. it was in june when he took off his mask. then along came delta, then omicron. obviously, very frustrating to americans. i will say, though, i won't mention my child's name because they'll get very upset at me, but one of my kids, i said, how is the new term going? this child had, like, a 56 in english, because this child of mine had one quiz. i was like, it's a long term. so i'm looking at these grades a year in. i remember ronald reagan getting slaughtered in his first midterm election. i remember bill clinton. we thought bill clinton was

done. poor bill clinton going out saying, "if you read the constitution, the president is relevant." i mean, that's how bad it got for bill clinton, except, of course, he went on to win. reagan went on to win 49 states after a slow start. you can say the same for barack obama. 2010 was a nightmare. the tea party just completely overwhelmed him. and the democratic party. so, yeah, these grades, not great right now. given everything, putting it in perspective, sam, we have a long way to go, don't we? >> yeah. i think that's absolutely right. i mean, history shows that, you know, the president in office, in power, that controls congress, really suffers in the first midterm election. that looks to be what's going to happen for democrats into this cycle. but we do have a long way to go. that's what ron klain told jonathan in the piece, this is a four-year term. if i were in the white house,

i'd be troubled by the independent numbers. biden kind of rented the lent in the primary. they came to him because they thought of him as the best chance to oust trump. he was always judged a little bit more -- with a little more antipathy by the left. it was the independents in the middle that really was the core of his support. if they are moving away from him, as they seem to be in this poll, and other polls, too, that's a real sign. you know, it echoes what you were saying, which is, does he move from here to say, look, i need to reestablish my footing with independents. i need to reassert my moderate posture. i need to reset. that's what i'm looking for today when he steps forth in the press conference. >> we'll get to hugh in a moment with more on january 6th. first, still ahead on "morning joe," microsoft lands the biggest tech deal ever, but will it get approved by federal regulators? co-anchor of cnbc's "squawk

box," andrew sorkin joins us. we're breaking things down with white house communications director kate bedingfield. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. we'll be right back.la. nucala reduces asthma attacks it's a once-monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occured. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala.

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okay. welcome back to "morning joe." 26 past the hour. in a moment, we're going to get to the developments in two legal fronts pertaining to donald trump. one in new york. one here in washington, d.c. but, first, microsoft has announced it will buy video game giant activision blizzard in a $68.7 billion all cash deal. the "ap" reports it'd make it a larger video game company than nintendo, while raising

questions about the deal's possible anticompetitive effects. if it survives the scrutiny of regulators, it could end up being one of the biggest tech acquisitions in history. that deal is all but certain to draw a lot of attention here in washington, and all eyes will be on the recently appointed head of the federal trade commission, lena khan. for more, let's bring in columnist for the "new york times" and co-anchor of cnbc's "squawk box,"rrowed him for a f moments. he'll be speaking with chair lina khan in an interview. it'll stream live at 10:00 a.m. eastern on cnbc.com. that's a big get, joe. >> that is a huge get. but not as big of a get as having the real morning andrew with us. so exciting to have you here, andrew.

lina khan, it'll be a fascinating interview. after democrats and republicans both doing really next to nothing, as far as enforcing any trust laws, she's come in with a promise of doing that. this is a big one right here, because many people already consider microsoft to be a monopoly on this huge acquisition. what's going to happen? >> this is actually, i think, going to be an inflection point in terms of what happens in antitrust. there was a cleverness about microsoft buying activision right now because they are probably the only tech company, if it gets approved, that could do this, which is to say that apple couldn't go buy activision right now. we should say, by the way, this is world of war craft. this is call of duduty. i don't know if you play all these games. >> mika is on top of it. >> all the time. >> it makes it almost impossible for a google or alphabet or facebook and the like. and the question is not only

couldn't they buy it, but do they go to washington, the big other tech companies, and say, no, no, no, we can't have this right now? that's going to be an interesting thing to see. and if you see lina khan go after the deal, what it means for antitrust writ large. interestingly, the gaming industry, which i have not realized, i'm not a gamer myself, i don't know if you're gamers. >> i'm not. >> it's actually a fractured business, meaning, it's not -- microsoft and activision together, it's not like it creates a behemoth that owns 80% of the gaming business, but the question is whether there is a redefinition of how we think about markets. that's what lina khan is looking at right now. she is no longer just looking at, is it going to be cheaper or better for consumers in the short term and long term. she has a new matrix for thinking about what happens to labor, what happens to cost. i mean, she's looking at a much bigger landscape. >> sam?

>> let's put this into a broader political context. lina khan comes into this position as a sort of well-regarded antitrust, antimonopoly figure. >> yes. >> this is arguably the first real, big test for how she approaches that philosophically while in a position of power. what are people looking at, to see what kind of posture she takes, what questions she asks? will this determine sort of the tenor of her tenure. >> the question is whether lina khan, unto herself, the ftc, will be the regulator. there will be intramural battles between, potentially, the department of justice and how this particular deal gets treated. but i think hearing from her today, and, i mean, we have not heard from her directly in any kind of interview context since she's gotten this role, to understand how she's going to go after these companies. by the way, she is going after

these companies. let's be 100% clear. >> right. >> big tech has already said, by the way, that they believe she's conflicted. you used the word activist. there are some people who believe that unto herself, she is an activist. >> he's not an activist, per se. >> i'm saying the critique is that she is. she wrote a famous paper about amazon at yale before she got this job. they, meaning amazon, has said she's conflicted. she shouldn't be allowed to be in this role, or to deal with amazon. >> wow. >> that's another part of this debate. >> willie? >> andrew, good to see you, my friend. nice try pretending you're not a gamer. you and i are in the headsets every night playing. you can pretend we're not, but we are. bigger picture on the economy and what we've seen out of the markets this year that you cover every day, a rough start on wall street. obviously, inflation is at the core of that. 7% inflation in december. what does the rest of the year look like? what are they projecting on wall

streets and what are economists looking at with inflation going forward? >> look, i think everybody thinks the whole story in terms of what will happen with the stock market and the economy, let's talk about the real economy, is an inflation story, and what the federal reserve ultimately does or does not do, how much do they raise rates? that's the question. it's not when do they raise it, but how much do they raise rates? and to the extent they do that, what happens on the other end to the stock market, which might be driving some of this, and to employment and the like? interestingly, by the way, i don't know if you saw it, literally in the last half hour, procter & gamble announced earnings today. shockingly, they were able to pass on -- this goes to the inflation story -- they had a pretty surprising profit because they've been able to pass on these costs to all of us. >> yeah. >> we're very happy to get tide and our gillette razors and pay more for them. we're not happy about it. >> we have to. >> you have to. so the question is going to be, what happens on the supply?

the other thing is the supply chain issue. we talk about the supply chain all the time and think about it in terms of semiconductors, can we get access to buy a new refrigerator, and when will it show up, but part of it is a supply chain issue with all of us, employment, saying there is not enough workers. that is, unto itself, a supply chain problem. the great resignation is real. so whatever the federal reserve does, does that tamp all of this down? if they do, it'll probably tamp down the stock market. that could have its own ramifications. it is going to be a very sort of tough six months to really predict where this heads. >> multidimensional. joe? >> yeah. andrew, let's take a step back and take a look from 30,000 feet. hopefully with no 5g towers around us. and go back to this lina khan question, this microsoft question. just explain, if you will, to our viewership, how antitrust laws were radically changed by

bork. before bork's school of antitrust law, antitrust law was actually to protect free markets, to protect entrepreneurs, to protect from monopolies gobbling up all its competitors. then there was a new test with bork. hey, if standard oil can deliver fuel, and monopolies can deliver goods to consumers at a cheaper ice, that's fine with us. it completely wiped out the other tests and standards. khan is a return back to where we're concerned about the free market. we're concerned about protecting entrepreneurs from being crushed by monopolies like microsoft, amazon, facebook, meta, whatever. can you go into that a little more? >> look -- >> this is not having radical -- >> it is super critical. >> -- look to the future. >> for the last several decades,

you were right, the test about whether somebody is a monopoly or whether there is an antitrust issue has only, and almost exclusively, been about whether the consumer is being harmed, and typically in the context of prices. for example, when it comes to an amazon, we all look around and go, well, it looks good to us because prices are cheaper. therefore, this is not a problem. facebook, it doesn't cost us anything, or doesn't look like it costs us anything. in fact, is it really costing us something in the context of it costs more to advertise. the businesses trying to get on the platforms. it becomes an exclusive club for suppliers. that's what this is all about. in the context of microsoft and this activision deal, the question is whether people will look at it in a different way this time around. >> can't wait to see this interview. andrew ross sorkin, always great to see you. >> so good to see you. i miss you. >> yeah. we miss you, too, over there on "squawk box." >> over here. >> yes. it is "morning joe." >> yes, it is.

>> you can say that. >> absolutely. let's hear it. >> right here on "morning joe." >> thank you. >> love it. >> i need that for our promos. okay. thank you, andrew ross sorkin. there are new developments involving donald trump and his inner circle on two fronts. first in washington, the january 6th select committee issues subpoenas for former trump attorneys rudy giuliani, sidney powell, jenna ellis, and boris epshteyn. according to the letter sent to the attorneys, the committee seeks documents and testimony on their claims of election fraud and attempts to delay certification of the election results. meanwhile, the new york state attorney general's office filed a motion seeking a court order to compel donald trump and two of his children to comply with a civil investigation into the financial dealings of the former president's company.

in a series of tweets posted late last night, attorney general letitia james wrote, no one in this country can pick and choose if and how the law applies to them. we have uncovered significant evidence indicating that the trump organization used fraudulent and misleading asset valuations on multiple properties to obtain economic benefits, including loans, insurance coverage, and tax deductions for years. donald trump, donald trump jr., and ivanka trump have all been closely involved in the transactions in question, so we won't tolerate their attempts to evade testifying in this investigation. we have congressional reporter for the "guardian," and he's been waiting patiently. we'll get his details on the january 6th investigations in a moment. first, tom winter with us on the

developments of the new york civil investigation. tom, what is your take on announcement by letitia james? what stands out to you? >> sure. what you discussed in reading the tweets from the new york attorney general last night is important and significant. i found that the document that was placed on the pocket at approximately 11:14 last night, 115-page supplemental motion, was one of the more interesting documents that we've seen. it provides a road map into really what the attorney general's office says they found so far. now, they haven't charged anybody. they're not going to because it's the civil side of the investigation. could we eventually see criminal charges in the investigation that's being led with the attorney general's office, but primarily by new york and manhattan district attorney alvin brag, who took over for cy vance, winning election the beginning of the year, it's possible. there was a 115-page filing a.

a lot of interesting investigation in it. witnesses at the top of the trump organization have are -- already asserted their fifth amendment privileges, including eric trump, according to the filing. another thing regarding ivanka trump, it says ms. trump was a primary contact for the trump organization's largest lender, deutsche bank, of course. ms. trump caused misleading financial statements to be submitted to deutsche bank and the federal government. there were also filings that talked about the president's tax returns specifically, which is, according to trump's own accountants, mika, easements at the trump national, l.a., and seven springs properties, resulting in millions in tax break benefits for the former president. what they've uncovered in the investigation, several occasions on the president's financial statements, he said that his triplex, his penthouse here in new york city, that there was

approximately 30,000 square feet in size. they say, look, the building's own plans and trump's previous filings indicate it was only 10,000 square feet. that led to a valuation of $300 million versus $100 million. so just one of the examples that they say they found in the course of this investigation. >> tom, as you say, no charges filed here, but a fascinating window into where the investigation is. i will say, for people who lived in new york and watched donald trump or covered him for many years, not terribly surprising, to hear he overvalued or undervalued his properties. how much trouble, though, do you believe he may be in, based on what we saw yesterday? >> couple things, willie. as we talked about several weeks ago when this issue first bubbled up, the idea of these subpoenas and the attorney general's desire to seek the testimony, it does indicate they were close to the end of this from a civil standpoint. they are civil charges, so people on twitter are trying to size out the dimensions for the

former president's prison jumpsuit. that's not going to happen on this filing last night, but it does indicate, i think, that we're close to probably the end of both investigations. if you're going to seek this testimony, and it is testimony that trump's attorneys have fired back on and are hoping either not to occur at all, because they say it attacks their ability for immunity before a new york grand jury on the criminal side of things, but also in lieu of that, the judge should wait until the criminal investigation is over. i think this signals we're close to the end of both. on top of that, when you look at the civil exposure, what are we really talking about here? we're talking about fines. we're talking about potentially forfeitures. the irs angle of that is interesting, but more probably needs to be learned there as far as what the intent was, how those documents were prepared, what he represented to the federal government. that's a much more complex issue. i think, bottom line, willie, you're looking at a withering document, if true, that points out that the president, for a

whole number of years leading up to his time in office, made material misvaluations, made material misrepresentations, not just to the state of new york but, as well, to his insurance companies in the banks of financial institution themselves. >> nbc's tom winter, thank you so much for your reporting this morning. now, hugo, to you and the subpoenas. the newly issued subpoenas to these lawyers, so to speak. what stands out to you? >> i think the most significant is that they've gone after rudy giuliani and boris epshteyn, right? if you look at the four lawyers, you have the two people at the willard and the two election lawyers. the select committee looking at claims of voter fraud, so that's where the sidney powell stuff comes. what is most significant is the willard. the committee is trying to find evidence, if there was a criminal conspiracy overseen by trump. so maybe one part of this prong

is what did the willard lawyers know in advance of january 6th, and what communications they had with the former president. if you look at rudy giuliani's subpoena document list, it shows they want all the communications they had with members of congress on january 6th. they want all the communications he had with the former president in the days leading up to january 6th. it is a wide-ranging set of documents that they are demanding. what's also significant is that it's the first subpoenas that go to lawyers. this whole issue that the committee has been trying to sift through is, can we subpoena the former president's personal attorney? because if there is a valid claim privilege, it is probably with rudy giuliani. the fact the committee has taken the step and have been deliberating this for months and months and months suggests they think there may be underlying criminality. if they had to fight it in court, they would have the base of doing so, because there is this crime for exception and

attorney-client privilege. if they can find evidence of criminality, think they have evidence of criminality, that protection would be moot. >> mike barnicle, jump in. >> hugo, we have heard from another public official, the attorney general in the state of new york, again, uttering the infamous phrase, no one in america is above the law. we've seen the investigation in new york state, the manhattan district attorney. we've seen various u.s. attorneys taking on the trump family and their past and their present alleged crimes. my question to you is, how wearying is it covering this stuff when we just heard a story about microsoft buying a gaming company and the ftc and the department of justice now looking into it, that that will probably be resolved far ahead of any indictments or criminal charges leveled against the former president of the united states? how tiring is this for you?

>> it is tiring. i'm going to be completely honest. there have been times when -- and it's not just me, right? it's also my colleagues on the january 6th committee beat. we are in the halls of congress sometimes until midnight because the only times you can catch these members is late into the night when they're voting on debt ceiling things. i think i was down to 1:00 in the morning that night. not to cover the debt ceilings, but so i can talk to the committee members and the staff on the committee who are also loitering around. it's draining in that respect. i think it is also so hugely important, right? this is an important investigation. it's one of these investigations that they have to build it from the ground up. they have to do all their homework first, do the due diligence first. it is a lengthy evidence gathering process, and that's what has been happening the last few months. so in one sense, i'm glad, also, to be on this beat, and it seems like there's light at the end of the tunnel, if we're going to get to a public hearing soon. i'm looking forward to that. >> joining us now, white house

communications director kate bedingfield. everybody is talking about president biden's first year in office, accomplishments, lack thereof, approval ratings, lack thereof. how is the president gauging his first year, and where are the big challenges that lie ahead? >> well, you'll hear from him on this this afternoon, but what i can tell you is what he's thinking about is the great progress we've made in the first year of his presidency. we've seen record economic growth. we've seen over 6 million jobs created. more than any other first year president ever. we've seen incredible progress on covid and on testing and on vaccinations. you know, when the president took office, only 2 million people were vaccinated. now over 200 million people are vaccinated. so he believes that he has laid a foundation for progress, but he would also be the first to say there's a lot more to do. there's a lot more to do. he wants to finish the job on the things that he started. you know, he set forth an agenda that's going to grow the economy

from the middle out and the bottom up. he wants to finish the job on that. so he's thinking about all of the important progress we've made, but also all that's left to do as we move forward. the american people are going to hear from him on that this afternoon. >> kate, it's usually a washington truism that if a white house or if a politician is talking about something being a communication problem, then that's a much bigger problem. in this case, though, we've been talking this morning about some of the white house, or more generally the democrats party's communication problems, despite a lot of advances being made. most of the year, i mean, if i had to have one defining moment for the democratic party, it would be members in congress yelling at each other in front of microphones in congress for about eight months, trying to, you know, talk about $6 trillion versus $3 trillion versus $1.5 trillion versus -- you get where i'm going here. how does a biden white house, how do democrats avoid falling

into that trap over the next year? >> well, i think, joe, let's not forget, that democrats arguing over the specifics are actually united behind the substance of what we're trying to do. there is more energy, there is more unity behind the president's agenda, both in congress, where, yes, of course, are they debating specifics? of course. that's their role. we're moving the process forward. but if you look out across the country, there's enormous support for the things the president wants to do in the build back better agenda, for example. he is looking to bring down the cost of child care for working families who need it. he's looking to bring down the cost of prescription drugs, insulin for the mother who can't afford insulin for her child. for him, it is not just a question of the cost, it is a question of dignity. so he's put forth an agenda that is fundamentally about giving working people in this country a fair shot, and there is tremendous energy behind it. ultimately, we're going to get there. we're going to work through the process and get there. the other thing i would say, and that you'll probably hear from the president this afternoon, is

that he intends to really take his case to the american people over the course of this year. he will be out in the country talking about how the things he's proposed are going to make a difference in people's lives. people are going to hear from him directly on that across the course of 2022. >> good morning, kate. let me ask you about the issue that's front and center, and that is voting rights right now. the president made a big speech. he's tweeted about jim crow 2.0 yesterday again. he called in senators manchin and sinema to the white house, trying to twist their arms. no progress there. they don't want to get rid of the filibuster, as they've said again and again and again. what is the end game here, as democrats again pursue this legislation that looks to most people in congress like a dead end? >> continue to fight. the president has said very clearly, if we lose this vote, he's going to continue to push. he doesn't believe that this is the end of the road. for him, this is a question of principle, not a question of politics. this is foundational. you all remember covering him on

the campaign, talking about the need to protect the right to vote. for him, you know, what he sees happening across the country, both out of washington and in states across the country, regrettably, is an effort not just to suppress the vote but t. and he believes this is absolutely fundamental. that standing up against these efforts, fighting these efforts is absolutely fundamental to who we are as americans and is going to continue to push both in congress, but also out across the country. for him it's a matter the principle, not politics. >> so it's a principle, but not a legislative one anymore, what you're saying? convinced he doesn't have manchin and sinema's vote so it's just principle? >> he's going to continue to push. absolutely going to continue to push. as i said, if the vote fails this week, that's not the end of the road. the struggle to protect voting rights across the course of the history of this country hit road blocks many times. he views this as a road block, not the end of the road, and

he's going to continue to push. >> senator bernie sanders suggested yesterday there should be primary challenges to joe manchin and kyrsten sinema because of their positions? will the president support that? >> i won't comment on that. i'll let the president speak and i'm not getting into politics from where i'm standing right now. >> it's jonathan lemire. the president said many times the central premise of his term in office prove the government can still work, still deliver for its citizen, democracies can work and competence. what is your opinion about the nation seeing omicron sweeping through the countries, questions whether the administration was ready for the number of tests required to handle it, and to have the presidential agenda of voting rights and build back better stalled by members of his own party? >> i would say look what we've

been able to accomplish over this first year. two major pieces of legislation. one with bipartisan support, everyone said wasn't possible. not possible in washington, d.c. to do anything in a bipartisan way, yet the president was able to get the bipartisan infrastructure done with republican votes and out implementing it across the country, building bridges, starting to replace lead pipes, connecting cities to the internet. tangible and something president biden led and able to get done. of course, of course, we understand, americans are going through a lot right now. there's enormous anxiety about covid. anxiety about prices. you've heard the president speak to that, and i expect you'll hear him speak to it again this afternoon as well as the press conference, but he is focused on doing everything in this power both the tame the virus and bring prices down. he came into the white house with those two priorities. growing the economy. tackling the virus. we've made great progress and he's continuing to push forward on both. >> all right. white house communications

director kate bedingfield. thank you very much for being on this morning, and by the way, joe will be interviewing white house chief of staff ron klain later today. we'll bring you that on tomorrow's "morning joe." up next, the latest from a very tense situation at the ukraine border as russia takes more action that could signal an invasion. nbc's richard engle joins us live from kiev. plus, we also have this morning's pandemic developments. the biden administration gets an early start on its push to send free covid tests to all americans. "morning joe" is coming right back. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪ limu emu ♪ and doug. we gotta tell people that liberty mutual customizes car insurance so you only pay for what you need, and we gotta do it fast. [limu emu squawks]

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there is reportedly tension at the supreme court over masks. justice neil gorsuch apparently

refuses to wear a mask on the bench despite that decision makes to his diabetic colleague seated next to him, justice sonia sotomayor. npr reports with the omicron surge justice sotomayor did not feel safe in close proximity to people who were unmasked. chief justice john roberts asked the other justices to mask up. they all did, except for gorsuch. justice sotomayor previously the only justice to wear a mask on the bench now participates remotely through an audio feed from her chambers. that just seems ridiculous. can you put a mask on to be polite? >> what workplace is this? >> it's not hard. i mean -- okay. that's really weird. okay. still ahead, joined by retired u.s. army lit colonel alexander vindman, serves as an expert on ukraine, on president

trump's national security council and his testimony led to trump's first impeachment. we will ask him about the biden administration's options as tensions over ukraine soar. we're back in two minutes with that and much more. o minutes wh that and much more. every emergen-c gives you a potent blend of nutrients so you can emerge your best with emergen-c. why choose proven quality sleep from sleep number? because my sleep number 360 smart bed is temperature balancing so i stay cool. it senses my movement and effortlessly adjusts to help keep me comfortable. the sleep number 360 smart bed is on sale now. only from sleep number.

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>> yeah. wonder what that guy thinks of neil gorsuch this morning? welcome back to "morning joe." it is wednesday, january 19th. it is just past the top of the hour, 8:00 on the east coast. there is heightened tension as the u.s. is warning that russia could invade ukraine at any point now. secretary of state antony blinken, who is in ukraine right now, says moscow could launch an attack "on very short notice." joiningkiev, ukraine, nbc correspondent richardengel. richard, give us a sense how ominous this really is. i'm hearing from many sources that this is a "real" potential. >> reporter: we're seeing a shift now in the conversation. for the last several weeks, u.s. officials, ukrainian officials, have been warning about the buildup of russian troops.

they talked about how in the future russia could launch an invasion, that russia's stockpiles troops on three sides of the borders. now they're saying they're ready to launch, an attack could be launched at any moment. it could come on short notice. so that's why we're seeing this flurry of diplomatic activity. the secretary of state is here in kiev right now. he's meeting with ukrainian officials. then he goes on to germany and at the end of the week, on friday, to geneva, to meet the russian foreign minister after a round of diplomacy last week failed to achieve any breakthroughs. u.s. secretary of state antony blinken arrived in ukraine this morning in a quickly organized last-minute, maybe last-ditch effort to avoid a russian invasion of the country. he tried to reassure ukraine's president, the u.s. has his back, so the president asked me

to underscore once again our commitment to ukraine's territorial integgraphy, sovereignty and independence. >> reporter: blinken earlier met with u.s. embassy staff discussing contingencies should a wider war break out. russia denied reports it's already thinning out its diplomatic staff. >> the significant buildup we've seen of russian forces near the ukrainian border, that gives president putin the capacity also on very short notice to take further aggressive action against ukraine. >> reporter: u.s. and ukrainian officials say russia already has the forces it needs for an attack. >> so let's be clear. our view is this san extremely dangerous situation. we're now at a stage where russia could at any point launch an attack in ukraine. >> reporter: more than 100,000 russian troops, claim to be carrying out drills are positioned to the north, south

and east where they're also already inside ukraine in two pro-russian enclaves. columns of russian tanks recently moved into neighboring belarus, which could open yet another front. russia is also no longer distracted guy as yun rising in nearby kazakhstan, which security forces backed by putin quickly put down. all that's missing now is a decision by president putin to invade or not. there is potential for a hybrid war, combining conventional and cyber. ukraine was hit by cyber attacks last week temporarily shutting down dozens of government websites. they blamed pro-russian hackers. russia says that it is the nation under threat from years of nato expansion following the collapse of the soviet union. russia is demanding guarantees that ukraine and georgia never

be allowed to join the military alliance and russia wants nato to shrink giving up much of eastern europe and the baltics. nato saying those are non-starters and warned that the possibility of war is real. mika? >> nbc's richard engel. thank you very much, and joining the conversation to continue on this we have pentagon correspondent for the "new york times" hallene cooper and former nsc director for affairs and executive board member for renewed democracy initiative, retired u.s. army lieutenant colonel alexander vindman, author of the book "here right matters: an american story." so, joe, from many different angles we are hearing that this is heating up, and there doesn't seem to be any sign that putin wants to pull back on these

threats. >> well, he -- he wants the united states to make commitments that the united states can't make publicly. seems to be a semantics game. president putin wants us to guarantee ukraine won't become a member of nato. talk to the biden administration and leaders in the west, they will say they don't want to make ukraine a member of nato, because they would be putting russia into a corner. this is what they all say off the record. so why -- why are we here, if, in fact, both sides agree that ukraine shouldn't be a member of nato for quite some time? >> it's the, you know, million dollar question, joe, and it goes to the heart of democracy. you can't order a sovereign country to not be able -- i mean, ukrainians expressed an interest, expressed their desire

to join nato. they want, they've said they wanted to move closer to the west. it's certainly true that nato, many countries within nato, do not want ukraine joining the alliance, and i don't see that happening anytime soon, but there's a huge difference between saying among friends, this is going to be too provocative right now, and getting a guarantee to vladimir putin, which would in essence be a reward for that sort of bullying behavior. i think that's a tough one for the united states to give ground on. although there's a lot of conversation going on right now behind closed doors, among nato allies looking for ways around this. there was some talk at some point a few days ago about maybe some of the countries that are most opposed to ukraine joining nato just coming out and saying that, in public, saying so publicly or even going as far as saying ukraine say, perhaps,

we're not going to battle. i don't see the ukraine government going for that. so it is very much a semantic game, but it's more than that as well, because you -- giving in at that point would give vladimir putin, i think, too much of a, he could declare victory trying to redraw the maps of europe and heading us back to a new sphere of russian influence. >> i think it's more than a semantics game, and more, i think simply put, yielding to russian demands is not going to end this, because ukraine is making progress on its own. because ukraine is becoming more of a sovereign, independent state, has grown multicapabilities, consolidation of national identity, all of these guarantees, all they do is offer to putin this idea that he could act with impunity. could still conduct this military operation in spite of all these guarantees, because he doesn't end at the threat with guarantees. he ends the threat through achieving a failed state in

ukraine. why is this important to the american public? because we're about to have the largest war in europe since world war ii. massive deployment of air support, long cruise missiles, things we haven't seen on the landscape more than 80 years, and not a clean or sterile environment. we know european, eastern european allies want to help. we have the uk offering both training and weapons to ukrainians. it's not going to end just simply with russia attacking ukraine. there's a very good possibility that other european allies do get pulled in, and this means there's an increased threat of a confrontation between ukraine and the nato alliance, ukraine and the u.s. this is what we're trying to avoid. that's why this administration needs to take such a firm position to defend u.s. interests, to avoid a confrontation that this massive confrontation that draws the u.s. in. that's why they need to be talking about more than the

diplomacy, which has been highly ineffective with russia. largely effective bringing coherence to the u.s. and to allies both on sanctions, on the kinds of support that we're prepared to offer ukraine, but not nearly potent enough with regards to the pressure track. >> right. >> offering troops to eastern european allies. where our obligations lie. reassuring warning russia what happened when they do attack, that they're actually precipitating this kind of security dilemma, positions troops. more weapons in ukraine to further deter them and really sanctions. the menendez di bill introduced last week most the most potent. encompass issing and broad, give more potent capabilities to the ukrainians is what russia is causing. their entirety may have a small affect of the russian calculus. i doubt it at this point.

we're almost locked into a course of action. >> willie giest? >> colonel, you say locked in a course of action. kind of answered my question. seen a lot of this. seen these threats. seen russia and putin deliver on these threats before, sometimes to back away from them. on the spectrum of what you've seen and studied in your career, how seriously are you taking this threat from putin, and if he does cross that line and go into ukraine, what happens from there? what's the united states' role? >> more likely than not, we're actually likely to see this massive offensive against ukraine unfold in february. in the coming weeks. the last pieces of the puzzle are coming together with force flows, both in terms of putting forces in face for a multivectored attack from north, east and south. we see troop presence to fall in, equipment arrives, last-minute rehearsals come into place, when we see logistics come into place. these things are already moving.

basically the entire military package to conduct this operation. so i think we're, like i said, just days, weeks, away from seeing this offensive. the u.s. options become significantly worse after the offensive than they are even today. they were better two weeks ago. several months ago. some of those options were foreclosed or delayed with the expectation this ma have been a bout of diplomatic coercion. now it's almost certain this is going to occur, and now is the time to take those it last-minute steps, position troops, again, to defend european allies, to send the message that russia's precipitating this. much better to do that now when out of a war, when we're out of a major fight in ukraine, than when there's already a major fight going in and then u.s. presence starts to flow into eastern europe. it's a lot more provocative and escalatory. this is the time to provide weapons. better to do it weeks or months ago. you'll get some limited gains.

not change russia's calculus, to put additional weapons, defensive lethal aid into ukraine. better to do it now than flow additional weapons in when fighting starts. that's when it becomes more escalatory. doing more now potentially prevents this and is less escalatory than options we have to execute in the middle of february after this unfolds, after russian blood starts to flow when they're fighting it out on ukrainian soil. >> helene, dire and urgent warnings from the lieutenant corner and we've seen from white house administration officials rhetoric's changed in the last 72 hours or so, the secretary of state heading ober there, from white house press secretary jake sull sullivan, and others, real concern over reaching a tipping point. and backing an insurgency if russia invades ukraine. tell us what you found out? what does that mean?

>> it's a -- it's so interesting, because listening to colonel vindman, again, a lot of ways the administration waiting, waiting, waiting then reacting after something happens. it's a little bit of a fix they've now found themselves in. jonathan, because they've been so cautious about provoking russia into an invasion that they've held back on providing a lot of the offensive, any of the offensive weaponry that ukraine might need to push russia back. they focused on defensive stuff, but haven't come anywhere near to the sort of military aid that could actually repel, really do much to repel a russian attack, because they haven't wanted to provoke russia. now, a lot of administration officials, there's a debate going on now once russia does invade, if they do, do the gloves come off? and do you then go into a much

more robust military package? the problem, though, is that very few people think that russia would have a lot of trouble in the initial days of, you know, rolling over parts of ukraine. whether vladimir putin then decides to push all the way to kiev, a different story. nobody knows at this point, but let's say russia has initial success at the beginning. you're then in a situation of, do you baku cainian insurgence, because there is a strong belief ukraine is not just going to roll over and play dead. there's a territorial unit, defense units in the country, who are already training for some sort of long-term insurgency-type fight and the united states is, there's a debate in the biden administration about whether, how much the united states would back that, and right now it's leaning to back that probably quite forcefully with both

training, with weapon supply, with logistical help. the united states has proved itself to be not great at fighting insurgencies, as you saw in afghanistan over the course of the 20-year war, but, again, here's another afghanistan example. it was pretty good at backing an insurgency back in the 1980s, afghan mujahadin fighting soviets. it's this weird circle. this circular thing we're getting into, but like colonel vindman saying, we're sort of there, i think, because we haven't been as forceful leading up to an invasion as we could have been when you look at the military support. >> well, and it does, it does seem to be front-loaded, lieutenant colonel. it does need to be front loaded. the message needs to be sent now because we wait for russia to invade there's going to be a lot of blood spilled, and it's not going to just be ukrainian

blood, a lot of russian blood and that's something we want to avoid. i'm wondering whether vladimir putin understands the tremendous costs. he was around when dr. brzezinski and the carter administration went over and made their lives living hell in afghanistan. and eventually the united states helped the afghans drive russia out of there. and he certainly remembers what happened in syria when 100 russians decided to, to rush a u.s. post and 100 russians were killed in about five minutes. he understands for all of his bluster that the united states military knows how to kill people more efficiently an ruthlessly than anybody on the planet. does he really want to take the united states on, helping out a

ukrainian insurgency? i just don't see it. >> so i think the calculation is that he doesn't have to take the united states on. the signals thus far have been rather weak on the pressure track. i think there's been a clear emphasis on diplomacy and less on the hard power, and the fact that the u.s. is prepared to baku cain in a substantial way. in the early days i could understand that. the perception was, do u.s. actions trigger this offensive? and in those early days, i could, i don't agree with it but can understand this idea that, know, arming ukrainians could be risky. but now when it's all but certain that the offensive is going to occur, there is no logical reason to not help the ukrainians defend themselves, because it could actually have a deterrence values. if russians are looking for any provocation or straighting a provocation to conduct an offensive, like they've done on several other occasions historically, then it makes, there is no argument that this

is going to be a trigger. the only argument is that you could now use this to deter russian aggression. with regards to costs, it should be noted that the costs for russia are, may not be that high. the russians are probably not likely looking to retain large pieces of territory. what they're looking to do is punish the ukrainians, looking to destroy the ukrainian armed forces and could do that with air power, with cruise missile strikes, with ground units that basically do a smash and grab operation, a raid and then withdraw. they don't have to necessarily face a large insurgency that's going to be particularly costly. and i think vladimir putin probably understands that he could achieve a lot of his aims with regards to the military force. the last thing i'm note, we shouldn't underestimate what this operation's going to look like. there are now significant forces flowing into belarus, to enabling a northern access of attack into kiev.

i think a good possibility those forces are likely employed to threaten the city, get concessions from ukrainians. i think there are going to be massive aerial bombardments, including what i've come to refer to as morale targets. things supposed to crush the ukrainian, resist, twice a revolution to free ukraine from russia's grasp. that's probably going to be pounded to smithereens. the things likely to unfold and the russians are building a crushing force on ukraines boundary to overcome some of these obstacling to a much more potent ukrainian military. it's going to be a bloody battle. >> helene, i certainly hope that the russians, that vladimir putin, doesn't make a miscalculation. like so many people have considered themselves to be our enemies in the past, we've seen it in our adult lives. whether it's noriega in panama.

ends up in jail. whether it's saddam hussein, making one miscalculation after another against us. whether it's osama bin laden making a miscalculation against us. a miscalculation because they think joe biden botched afghanistan, the retreat from afghanistan, that somehow he's going to be weaker in ukraine. not understanding that actually this administration will be put in a position where it's going to be forced to actually be more assertive in the face of russian action. >> i think -- i think that's a really good point. i think vladimir putin certainly, if you listen to what's going on in the russian media, there's a lot of talk about afghanistan and a collapse of american will. the afghanistan withdrawal is presented as a huge black mark against joe biden and proof that the united states is not, you know, as scary as anybody might

have thought. and i think vladimir putin has definitely calculated, he's putting, putting a lot of store in that. whether that ends up being true, i don't think it's, it is certain at this point, because i think once he does go in, there is going to be more of an impetus to stand up to them. and to bck ukraine more forcefully. there are already people at the pentagon already pushing this. already a raging debate within the administration. look back at the response in 2014 when russia invaded crimea and think the obama administration was too weak in its response, want to be now much stronger and already acknowledging limits of sanctioning there wear out of this. sanctions can do some -- some, they can hurt up to a point, but you don't even have european unity there. they're not sure the germans will stand up for the swift sanctions. so there's still -- there's

still a lot of room on the table for military power, and at that point it becomes a completely different ball game. >> all right. retired u.s. army lieutenant colonel alexander vindman, thank you very much for being on this morning with very ominous information. and new information regarding covid. british prime minister boris johnson announced the end of all covid measures introduced to combat the covid variant. including work-from-home guidance and vaccine certificates. that's set to go into effect january 26th according to "the guardian." the swift change seen as a contempt to quell conservative anger over his lockdown breaching parties at downing street. joe, what do you think? >> well, just going to say to you and willie. i mean, this is obviously in response to a scandal that continues to grow, and "new york

times," there was an op-ed in the "new york times" that said this may be a scandal that boris johnson doesn't escape. so what does he do? he -- he lifts restrictions on the country, because, again, this is a guy that's been teflon. gotten out of one scandal after another. but this one's actually sticking. >> yeah. it's stuck to him, and in fact in that same session where the prime minister declareds an end to covid restrictions, there were members of parliament asking for his referring nation, just moments around his own comments. that scandal isn't going anywhere. but this is. based on science and done for the right reasons. good news for the british people. if what we've seen in europe is a precursor the last two years, let's hope that continues here in the u.s. all right. and still ahead on "morning joe," first was the announcement of free covid tests and now free face masks. more on what the white house is calling the largest deployment of personal protective gear in u.s. history.

plus, the nation's two largest wireless carriers delay 5g rollouts near airports, but not stopping the scramble among some major airlines to cancel or change flights to the u.s. we have the latest safety concerns. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. joe. we'll be right back.

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the nation's cell providers have heated warnings for the airline industry delaying the rollout of new faster 5g cell service around airports. concerns the signals could interfere with critical cockpit technology that pilots rely on. 5g service -- >> that's not good. >> -- no. >> not good at all. >> no. we don't want that.

the rest of the country today, nbc correspondent tom costello has more. >> reporter: fifth generation or 5g cell service is officially here this morning for millions of americans. with at&t and verizon, launching their ultrahigh-speed networks overnight reaching a last-minute deal with the nation's airline industry. both say they're temporarily limit or delay their 5g towers located near some airports. >> still a lot of work to be done, and i think as we work together we'll get to the right place. >> reporter: for months the airline industry and aviation experts warned of massive disruptions to travelers and the supply chain. at issue, frequency used by verizon and at&t's 5g networks and potential it could interfere with the plane's ut altimeter. saying not to rely on altimeters at nearly 40 cites.

they bounce a signal off the ground to let pilots know their precise distance to the ground. critical for landing and essential when doing so in bad weather. >> certainly minimizing flight disruptions ensuring safety in travel is a top priority. >> reporter: on tuesday, the white house thanked the cell phone companies for their cooperation. with president biden calling the expansion of 5g a priority and a massive step in the right direction. but the agreement follows years of political in-fighting involving the fcc, the faa, cell phone companies, airlines and two presidential administrations, all with competing agendas. both verizon and at&t, which say they acted voluntarily, blame the faa for not resolving the issue ahead of their launches. at&t in a statement writing, we are frustrated by the faa's inability to do what nearly 40 countries have done, which is to safely deploy 5g technology without disrupting aviation services. >> are you relieved?

>> relieved is a word. it's unnecessary. this deadline was commercially driven. i understand why the cell phone companies would be upset. they spent billions of dollars. know what? that's not my problem. >> that was nbc tom costello reporting. and coming up, a new tool in the fight against the pandemic. at-home covid tests at the click of a mouse. the administration's latest online effort to slow the spread. next on "morning joe." e spread next on "morning joe." t failure brand prescribed by cardiologists and has helped over one million people. it was proven superior at helping people stay alive and out of the hospital. don't take entresto if pregnant; it can cause harm or death to an unborn baby. don't take entresto with an ace inhibitor or aliskiren, or if you've had angioedema with an ace or arb. the most serious side effects are angioedema, low blood pressure, kidney problems, or high blood potassium. ask your doctor about entresto.

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nearly 1 million kids tested positive for covid-19 last week alone. it comes amid a new push by the biden administration on two fronts. testing and masks. nbc news national correspondent gabe gutierrez has the latest. >> reporter: a day after it's

soft launch the biden administration is officially rolling out its new website for free at-home covid tests. on covidtests.gov each household can order up to four tests that should ship within seven to ten days. jo ling kent spoke to them. >> reporter: how concerned too late for omicron? >> we emphasize these tests are not the only channel for testing in america. >> reporter: the website launching a day early as part of the federal government's push to get half a billion at-home rapid tests into the hands of the public. >> we can't guarantee a bug or two. >> reporter: the case for some americans who signed up from apartment buildings or multiunit homes sharing error messages on social media. >> error. open. this address already ordered covid tests. >> reporter: a spokesperson saying this is occurring in a small percentage of orders. the effort comes as omicron surge sent millions to kids

often in short supply. the biden administration says it will make high-quality masks available at no cost, amounting a plan to send 400 million non-surgical n95 masks from the national stockpile to community centers. all this as omicron now accounts for 99.5% of covid cases in the u.s. new cases up just 23% in new york and new jersey over the last two weeks. actually decreasing by 43% in washington, d.c. but in california, cases are 316% higher. up 247% in oregon. almost as much in arizona. nationwide, also a dangerous spike in new cases in children. nearly 1 million testing positive just last week according to the american academy of pediatrics. a surge leading to staffing shortages and overwhelming hospitals. some health care workers say it's hard to see the end of this wave. >> it's awful. we've seen younger and younger people doing worse and worse.

>> that was nbc's gabe gutierrez reporting. coming up. a hard sell. a new look at the opioid epidemic. how big pharma pushed its product on to so many americans. first, sports executives know larry miller as a leader at nike. a philadelphia family knows him as a murderer. a crime committed decades ago reveals about redemption, forgiveness and accountability. that incredible story is next on "morning joe." joe." nothing will stop me from vacation. no canceling. (laughs) flexible cancellation. kayak. search one and done.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it is a case that could change how federal prosecutors handle opioid cases. in recent days, the founder of drug manufacturer insist asked

the supreme court to overturn his conviction for conspiring to bribe doctors to prescribe addictive opioids and defraud insurers into paying for them. a federal jury in 2019 found him guilty of returning a wide-ranging scheme to bribe doctors nationwide retaining them to act as speakers at sham events meant to educate clinicians about the company's fentanyl spray. the small and briefly high-flying start-up became the first pharmaceutical company whose executives went to prison for misdeeds in the opioid crisis, and joining us now are journalist evan hughes who details the rise and fall of this drug company in his new book "the hard sell: crime and punishment in the opioid industry." is overturning possible? >> seems unlikely at this point.

but this is really an incredible story of power, greed and betrayal, and how opioids are marketed and sold in this country. and it was a groundbreaking prosecution, and it may change the game in terms of how these, how these cases are prosecuted in the future. >> i mean, the scam that is played out in -- in the litigation here is incredible. all the way to sort of this circle of money funding, from insurers, but even to these scam events, and speaker setups. tell us about that angle. >> yeah. so -- so, you know, i think we're not aware of some of what's going on behind the scene. this incredible tug-of-war between drug companies about how you influence doctors to prescribe, and so what do you do? you use flirtation, you use moneymaking opportunities, and in this case it was speaker events. you know?

hire a doctor to speak at a restaurant, say, to other doctors. but really it's a sham. it's -- the presentations don't matter. it's a pretext to put money in the hands of the doctor, form a relationship with them and what you hope comes back is prescriptions for your product. no matter whether the patients need it or not. >> evan, good morning. an extraordinaire story, as you say like some other cases heard around oxycontin and our pharmaceutical companies, sent to jail. true accountability. what are the implications of that for future judgments, future cases that come up around this scourge in our society? >> i think, you know, the justice department deserves a lot of credit in this case. as you say, the model we all know is that drug companies routinely come under federal investigation for their marketing practices and opioids have come under tremendous scrutiny, but you never see a trial.

what happens is, years later, the whole thing arrives at a settlement. a dollar figure's they make it go away. the executives walk away. so in this case, they actually put people in handcuffs, and took them to trial. does that change everything? i'm doubtful that it does. this was uniquely reckless, just incredible misconduct at the company. recruiting exotic dancers to doctors, flagrant -- put everything in an email. that sank them a trial. but, you know, will other companies continue to push the bounds of the law to push these products? absolutely. >> yeah. i was just going to ask. how much of this is actually, has been targeted, has this company been targeted? because it is opioids, because it is a national scandal, and how much of this type of behavior do we see maybe not at extreme, but do we see with doctors being encouraged to use

drugs? doctors being pushed, other people pushing the boundaries of the law to try, to get an edge in, to the pill market? >> yeah. i mean, absolutely. it extends beyond opioids. if you want to get an edge over the competition, and this was a scrappy start-up. they were hungry, trying to grab market share like any start-up and part of what the book does, takes you inside their point of view. the point of view of the bad guy, so to speak. through that you see the system they operated and ocean they swam in, so to speak, and incentives responding to. and you know, the whole, the whole -- industry is working that same game. so it's bigger than just this one company. >> the new book is "the hard sell: crime and punishment at an opioid start-up." evan hughes, thank you very much for being on this morning. and in a new book published

by the chairman of the michael jordan brand at nike and a former president of the portland trail blazers, larry miller wrote about his criminal teenage past, which he had kept hidden for decades. decades. miller pleaded guilty to second degree murder as a 16-year-old gang member, and said he was drunk and out to kill the first person he saw one night. he served four and a half years in prison for the crime before ultimately rebuilding his life. miller never mentioned the name of his victim in the book. we now know the victim's name is edward white. miller recently met with mr. white's family including his sister seeking forgiveness, which "the new york times" details. at the end of the meeting, mrs. mac said in an interview, mr. miller asked if he could hug her, and she said yes, but she said she also told him if i was

30 years younger, i would have been across that table at you. "new york times" reporter ja ree lungman co-wrote that piece about miller's emotional meeting. i know you have the first question. >> i must say, a riveting story, a heartbreaking story, but also a story where larry miller doesn't seem to get it at times. he writes this book, doesn't notify the family, doesn't even mention the man's name that he killed. the family of the murdered father and brother has to find out through "sports illustrated" and in the story you have mr. miller saying things like i hope they saw me crying. i hope they understand how sad i am for what happened. it was curious, he didn't even handle this phase, in my opinion, very well. >> so he writes that he acknowledges that he made a mistake by at least not

contacting the family before, you know, the book came out. they were blind sided by this. so he says he hired a private detective to search for the family but that he should have done a more forceful job. he said he got very anxious and nervous, and probably a little afraid to contact them. so when the "sports illustrated" story came out, it did mention edward david white's name, but there was nothing else about him, so we decided to try to find the -- and tell mr. white's story. my colleague, kevin draper. >> and of course, the man he murdered was a father, a young father, and you also talked to his children, one who was very young when he was murdered and another who had not yet been

born. >> so mr. white was 18, coming home from his work at a diner unarmed, no criminal record. and you know, he had an 8-month-old son hassan adams is his name and a daughter who was not yet born. among the many tragedies in this story is that he has a daughter who never got to meet her father. >> as mika said, you know, larry miller rose to extraordinary heights, the president of jordan brand at nike, about as big a job you can have without being ceo, president of portland trail blazers in the nba. what is he doing now that he has met the white family and has come clean about this to make good after all these years? >> so the family has met twice with mr. miller, and they have

begun discussions about a -- about forming a scholarship foundation in mr. white's name that would allow his descendants the opportunity to go to college or trade school. that foundation may extend to top students at west philadelphia high school, which mr. white attended. may also include the people who go to the church of mrs. barbara mac. >> all right, we're having -- obviously having terrible internet problems here, mika. >> jere longman of the "new york times," thank you very much for your reporting on this. we appreciate it. nba hall of famer jerry west is among a list of west virginia sports icons urging senator joe manchin to back voting rights legislation west, who was a

college star at west virginia said he and the other prominent sports figures strongly support legislation to protect voting rights and election integrity. the letter reads in part this, we come from some of our nation's most popular sports leagues, conferences, and teams. some of us have roots and shaped our lives in west virginia. others followed very different paths and some of us have been rivals in sports or business, but we all are certain that democracy is best when voting is open to everyone on a level playing field. the referees are neutral, and at the end of the game, the final score is respected and accepted. the letter was sent to joe manchin on tuesday and was signed by nick saban, former nfl quarterback, oliver luck, former buffalo bills linebacker darryl tally among others. saban reportedly opposes removing the senate filibuster to get the legislation passed. joe, final thoughts. >> yeah, and it is -- obviously

west virginia a very small community. these people all know each other. they're all friends. the fact that jerry west and nick saban did something publicly like this is pretty extraordinary. >> it is, and the name that jumps out there is nick saban because of course anyone who watches this show knows, nick saban and joe manchin are old buddies going way, way back. they are real life friends. so for saban to put his name to this letter is fascinating. he's kind of taking the manchin position. yes, i want to get voting rights legislation passed but not by scrapping the filibuster, so saban is taking the manchin position there. >> helene, final thoughts on this morning. what are you working on? >> i'm all about ukraine right now. >> yeah. >> you know, we're in a state of sort of suspended animation at the pentagon waiting for, you know, sort of a shoe to drop. so there's a lot of activity

there. there's a lot general mark milley, the chairman of the joint can chiefs of staff has come down with covid but he's working from home. lloyd austin is at the office, but there are a lot of discussions right now with the white house on where we go from here and what sort of posture the united states is going to take if sort of as expected this last round of diplomacy doesn't lead anywhere. >> all right. and a big day ahead. we're headed to the white house on two levels, my brother's being sworn in today as ambassador to poland, and you're going to be interviewing white house chief of staff ron klain. we'll bring you that on tomorrow's show. that does it for us this morning, chris jansing picks up the coverage after a final quick break. e coverage after a final k break.

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hi there, i'm chris jansing in for stephanie ruhle. it is wednesday, january 19th, ask we have a lot to get to. this morning, flights already being canceled as 5g cell service is launched after an intense faceoff between the top airlines and wireless providers. there's a compromise, but is it enough to keep planes in the air? plus, election lies