maddow show right starts right now. >> good evening chris, thanks my friend, much appreciated. thanks for joining us this hour, when the day this is been. be true. turns out it was rudy. here's the front page at cnn.com right now. giuliani led fake electors' plot. here's "the washington post's" version of the that same front page story today. giuliani coordinated plan for trump electoral votes in states biden won. it was mr. giuliani, apparently. you know, you find a little thread of a story, you tug and you tug and you tug some more an one day you're like one more tug on the same thread and the whole sweater comes apart. today the whole sweater came apart and now we're sitting in a pile ofno yarn and you're going

oh, that's what it's made of. here's how cnn put it in their story tonight. quote, trump campaign officials led by rudy giuliani oversaw efforts in december 2020 to put forward illegitimate electors from seven states that trump lost, according to three sources knowledge of the scheme. members of former president donald trump's campaign team were far moredo involved than previously expected. giuliani and his allies coordinated the nuts and bolts of the process on a state-by-state level. the trump campaign lined up supporters to fill elector slots, secured meeting rooms at statehouses for the fake electors to meet on december 14, 2020, and circulated drafts. behind the scenesci giuliani an campaign officials actively choreographed the process. "washington post" in their piece on this today also has this

important new piece of news. quote, vice president pence's chief of staff marc short e tells the "post" that rudy giuliani forwarded to pence's office letters arguinglectors sn these states that biden, in fact, won. mr. short reviewed it but was not persuaded. so rudy giuliani and associates directly conveyed to vice president pence and his staff that pence should count the fake ones, should open the forged fake elector counts and count those instead ofct the real one when it came time to tally up the electoral college results. and per today's reporting mr.

giuliani led the efforts at a nuts-and-bolts level, incluing distributing the drafts. it'sin interesting. all reporting on this says some version of this, rudy giuliani and company, rudy giuliani and associates, or rudy giuliani and others from the campaign. well, who else? well, we've got direct evidence, evidence on tape, that other people at the trump campaign were involved in trying to get state legislators -- state legislatures to pretend the fake electors were real torque give some perceived legitimacy at the state level that these were real when it came time for mike pence to count the forged elect ter

slates thanks to a small group i michigan, the michigan information and research service, mirs, which focuses on covering the michigan state capital. god bless mirs in michigan because we can hear all of this alleged conspiracy out loud as it happened on tape. listen. >> hi, representative -- my name is angela mccallum and i'm calling from trump campaign headquarters in washington, d.c. i know you're very busy, but i did want to personally reach out to you t on behalf of the president as you've got an opportunity toe be a crucial pt of his re-election. we just wanted to make sure you know how you could be helpful in ensuringlp that every american represented and can rest assured that their vote will be fairly and correctly counted in this election.un the united states constitution provides that the state

legislators retain sole authority to designate the presidential electors. you do have the power to reclaim yourth authority and send us a slate of electors that will support president trump and vice president pence. this is w an effort that is happening in other states as well such as pennsylvania, arizona, georgia. there are p state legislators across the country who are standing with the president to stop this voter fraud from happening under their watch. we want to know when there is a resolution in the house to appoint electors for trump if the president can counts on you to join in support. my number is -- thank you so much, representative. >> thank you so much. thank you isou much. just calling to let you know that we're overthrowing the government of the united states to stop thert new president fro taking power by sending trump electors from states that trump didn't win, and if you want to help us overthrow the government of the united states and stop

the president from taking power and keep the guy who lost in power instead, we have found out this one unique trick to do it, you know, so give us a call. that call, again, published by mirs news in michigan was a voice mail left by the trump campaignt for one michigan sta legislator. again, trump lost michigan. this was an effort by the trump campaign to say effectively don't worry, as a state legislator, you can send an electoral college slate of ee electors for trump. the voice mail says, hey, you totally have the authority to do that, we need youilhe to help. the president asked me to call you. he's counting on you. it'sou interesting. for forgive me for saying it this way. it's interesting that that call is so sort of lame, and the reason i say that is because --

i mean i don't know that there is i a punchy way to do a call like wathis, but this was like rote enough function of what the trump campaign was doing in 2020 that they just had campaign randos leaving this kind of thing on people's voice mail. hi, so and so, whatever, we're overthrowing the government, okay? call me when you have a sec. we need you do a thing. clearly that was not the only call. this was someone who was clearly exhausted from making these calls all day long, i surmise, from the tone, which isn't fair, but the sort of benality tells you this is not something that one or twoyo people were doing a rogue effort. "the washington post" reports today that understanding the origins of the fake elector slates hasak now become a focusf

the n january 6th investigationn congress. thaty seems undeniably true. today the chairman of the investigation told reporters that the investigators are looking into weather there was a broader conspiracy or involvement from the trump white house and the creation and submission of the fake electors. i should also mention that the trump campaign staffer who left that sort of insanely benal voice mail, she herself was subpoenaed back in november. we reached out to her tonight, but sheed did not wish to comme. but clearly, you know, she's not the one y who came up with this plot. she was making calls as part of it because by then it was sort of a mechanized oefrt what they were doing as a campaign.s clearly the january 6th investigation is on this. it is a focus of theirs. their s&ps campaign went out i november, so they've been on this for ave while. increasingly as more of this comes clear, it's also a focus in the states, not just in the

january 6th investigation in in the , not just beltway press, not just here, but in the states where republicans forged these fake documents to try to change the apparent results of the election. the states are starting to get quite focused on it too. in nevada, for example, the governor of nevada was asked today about whether this was all criminal. thist th is from the local cbs station in las vegas today. watch. >> the 8 news iteam recently reported the national archives received documentation from the nevada gop certifying the state's six electoral votes for former president donald trump even though president joe biden won. here's the governor weighing in. >> well, if they send fraudulent or fake electoral votes in, absolutely. it's up to theto attorney gener to decide what he's going to do ine' terms of filing charges. our democracy is at stake. you can't have people filing false reports and fake

certifications and what not. >> they sent frad lent or fake electors, absolutely. was committed. that's nevada's governor speaking d.today. so far the attorney general in nevada has put out a statement saying he's not confirming or denying if any state investigation is active on this matter, but he's assured the public his office is aware of it and it's, quote, on our radar. look in nevada. this> was the front page of th "las vegas sun" today. legal line crossed. nevada's gop faux electors. look at this on the front page of the "detroit free press." a.g. says fake electors. she hopes they prosecute. this is "the arizona republic." no details on false electoral document. trump backers refuse to explain

alternate plan. in wisconsin it was across their front page. still no ruling on gop tactic. alternate electors were ignored. questions linger. that "still no ruling" reference in wisconsin has to do with the uncertainty on whether republicans took part in that fakere elector forgery, whether they are potentially going to be referred for prosecution or investigation either at the state or federal level. you'll recall that in michigan the attorneyu' general there referredto the issue to federal prosecutors. she said publicly she'll prosecute it under state law if they don't underte federal law. today she told "the washington post" she believes it's a, quote, open and shut case of forgery of a public record. that was michigan. in new mexico, the attorney in general referred it to federal prosecutors. in wisconsin there wast some interesting new this week which i think gave rise to that

headline in the "wisconsin state journal." the new this week in wisconsin was that a county prosecutor, the milwaukee county d.a. who had been asked to look into this matter for possible prosecution, this week he released a letter just yesterday saying that his office has looked into this matter and they have handed it off to state law enforce management inte wisconsin, the wisconsin department of justice, which is overseen by the state's attorney general for them to potentially prosecute it. that lands this as the wisconsin journal puts it -- excuse me the "milwaukee journal sentinal" puts it. but this is live. mine this is front page above the fold news in multiple state over theth course of this week. and with theou focus of the january 6th investigation on

this issue and revealing more about it all the time with this new revelation today with cnn from "washington post" that mr. giuliani seems to have headed up, itul seems like we're only going to get more. and theto january 6th investigation today showed a whole bunch of its work in a kind of shocking letter to ivanka trump, the adult daughter of former president trump. this has been a remarkable few days for the trump family. i meanor just in the past 48 hours, we've had news reported by cnn that eric trump and kimberly guilfoyle who's the fiance of eric trump have had their phone records subpoenaed. and don jr. and ivanka trump and their father t former president have been accused of being involved in aac very detailed

lurid list of bank fraud, insurance fraud schemes at the family trump real estate business. i think it t must have been unsettling for those members of the trump family that the allegations were laid out in particular to each one of them. thert filings from the new york attorney general this week, for example, stated this about ivanka trump, quote, until january 2017, ms. trump was a primary contact. that's not good when the attorney generalat says that abt you specifically and personally while asking theut judge to enforce the subpoena for your testimony after your brother t blond one, just had to bleed the fifth over 500 times in his recent deposition in that case. and that's not good. but nowd -- i mean all in this same 48-however period now we

have this bombshell letter to ivanka trump from the january 6th kainvestigation, and in thi january 6n,th investigation letr to her, we do not have harsh allegations against her personally the way we do, for example, from the new york attorney general, but we do have a surprising number of sort of eye-popping revelations about what the committee has found out thus far, what the committee knows, and there are lots of questions for ms. trump to come in and talk about apparently over what she features in other people's testimony. there's so much going on with this today. we're going to get expert help in just a moment. but let me just give you a couple of them to start. this is from the letter. as january 6th approached, president trump attempted on multiple occasions to persuade vice president pence to participate in his plan to not count the allergic mat electors for the electoral college vote. one of the president's discussions with the vice president occurred on the phone on the morning of january 6th.

you meaning ivanka trump, you were present in the oval office and observed at least one side of that telephone conversation. general keith kellogg was also prejts and he has testified to the january 6th investigation about thaty discussion as follows. question, and there's this transcript. question, it's been reported that the president said to the vice president, you don't have the courage to make a hard decision. and mayberd not those exact wor but something like that. do you remember anything like that. answer from keith kellogg. words, i don't remember exactly either, but, yeah, you're not tough enough to make the call. question, another report of this phone callqu is that trump said mike,s it's not right. you can do this. i'm counting on you to do this. if you don't, i picked the wrong man. you're going to wimp out do. you remember that? keith kellogg, yeah, words like that, yes. i can't exactly -- it's tough,

but yeah. keith kellogg at the close of the call. ivanka trump turned to me and said mike pence is a good man, and i said, yes, he is. the letter then continues. the selectle committee wishes t discuss the part of the conversation yourt observed between president trump and vice president pence on the morning of januaryum 6th. similarly the committee would like to discuss any other information you may have witnessed. theu committee has information suggestingco that president trump's white house counsel may have concludet that that the actions that president trump directed vice president pence tu take would violate the constitution or otherwise be illegal. did you discuss these issues with any member of the white house counsel's office? to your knowledge, were any such league conclusions shared with president trump? similarly, i mean, grrr. similarly, in the days before january 6th, a member of the

house a freedom caucus with knowledge of the president's planning for that day sent a message f to the white house chf ofhe staff with this explicit warning if potus allows this to occur, we're driving a stake in the heart of the federal republic. did you discuss that or similar concerns with the white house chief of staff or with the vice president or his staff? the committee after all of that goes on toth assert that trump actually did intend, he did want to go down to the capitol himself afterdo he made his speh riling up the crowd. hee apparently wanted to lead e mob down to the u.s. capitol personally. they said they want to ask ivanka about that.t the committee also asserts they have foundit no evidence that trump ever called for the national guard to be deployed or for any other law enforcement

effort to be made to protect the capitol over the entire scope of the day on january 6th. it just goes on and on. these aren all revelations abo what the committee has found. it ends pointedly with a reminder to ms. trump that all white house officials need to have their communications preserved and handed over to the nationaled archives with the clr implication thatve perhaps her communications have not been adequately h archived and she needs to do that. but, man, between the electoral -- the forged electoral votes finally being unwoven so we can now seeun where those came from within the trump campaign, we can now see apparently rudy giuliani -- remember, president trump put rudy giuliani in place to mounlts some sort of pseudo legal effort to keep trump in power even though he lost the election.h

apparently what giuliani did was helmt this effort by sending o this fill-in-the-blanks mad lib forged documents even though those were states trump lost. we also now know from the january 6th committee not only that they're focused that area but that they've uncovered a lot of information t about it and ao uncovered a lot of information including in the white house and the oval office on january 6th both by the president himself and among people we would otherwise previously have thought were supportive of his efforts that day. what day thisfo has been, man. we've got expert help to unwrap all of this and much more straight ahead. stay with us. this and much mor straight ahead stay with us

why choose proven quality sleep from sleep number? because my sleep number 360 smart bed is temperature balancing so i stay cool. it senses my movement and effortlessly adjusts to help keep me comfortable.

the sleep number 360 smart bed is on sale now. only from sleep number.

so this is the letter today

from the district attorney of fulton county, georgia, to the chief judge. quote, dear chief judge brasher, i hope this letter finds you well and in excellent spirits. please be advised that the district attorney's office has received information indicating a reasonable probability that the state of georgia's administration of elections in 2020 including election of the president of the united states was subject to possible criminal disruptions, therefore, i am hereby requesting as the elected district attorney for fulton county that a special purpose grand jury be impanelled for the purpose of investigating the disruptful administration of lawful elections in the state of georgia. now, it was not unexpected that fulton county district attorney would move to impanel a special grand jury for her investigation into whether former president trump committed crimes when he

tried to push. we talked several times on the show about the prospect that her investigation might ultimately take this step, but now that it has happened, now that she's requested the formation of a special grand jury to look at the evidence in this case, the specifics are really interesting. grand juries including this idea of a special grand jury, that is handled differently in every state. in georgia there's all sorts of interesting detail here in terms of what this means for this criminal case involving the former president. i mean first on the logistics, getting a special grand jury to work on this evidence, this is not something the d.a. can just do on her own. she's asking the court because a majority of the county's superior court judges will have to approve a request if a special grand jury is in fact going to be put in place. also interesting will i she's asking for a county judge to oversee this special grand jury, to oversee its work, to supervise it, which is an interesting thing. if the special grand jury is

impanelled, it will sit indefinitely. grand juries in georgia sit, i think, for two months this. one will not have a two-month time restriction. they'll work indeaf nistly and only on this one case. willis rights it will likely exceed a grand jury term of two months. so for those of us who aren't familiar with this kind of a process, at least this kind of a process in this state, this raises a bunch of interesting questions, right? how rare is a request like this? will the judges say yes? is it unusual to ask a judge to oversee this, or is that sort of standard operating procedure? is there anything we can read into the d.a.'s confidence and the amount of evidence she's already amassed that she's willing to take this step? there's also what willis says is the need to impanel this grand

jury, why she's asking for this step at all. . on the one hand there's a very straightforward reason. there's a call that then president trump made to georgia's secretary of state last jarngs brad raffensperger, pressuring him to find enough votes. in her letter d.a. willis cites recent states saying he will only speak to investigators from her office in this case if he is compelled to do so by a subpoena. well, she needs a grand jury in order to get subpoena power. a special grand jury cannot issue indictments but they can issue subpoenas to obtain testimony and obtain evidence. that's something the fulton's d.a. office cannot do on its own. they're ready to go forward with subpoenas in order to get testimony and they need a grand jury. apparently it's not just brad raffensperger. a specific number of witnesses have refused to cooperate with the investigation absent a

subpoena requiring their testimony. a special grand jury with subpoena power would be needed to go forward on that level. but there's also a surreal real point. a true assertion, but it's just bizarre. she puts this up front in her letter to the county judge as to why her office need this special grand jury, which is that conceivably there are lots of law enforcement agencies in georgia who could take up this matter if, in fact, there's reasonable suspicion that georgia's statewide elections were criminally interfered with. why does have it to be the fulton county district attorney who pursues the evidence and tries to put together the prosecution? why that one county prosecutor's office? well, she makes a very good case. it's because every other law enforcement agency that could conceivably be investigating this was a potential witness to the alleged crime.

the georgia secretary of state's office, that was one of the targets of the alleged perpetrators of this scheme. the georgia attorney general's office, also one of the targets of the alleged perpetrators of this scheme. the u.s. attorney's office, the federal prosecutor's office in georgia, that was one of the targets of the alleged perpetrators of this scheme. so, you know, if your office is inside the crime scene tape, that makes it hard for your office to be the entity investigating the crime scene. therefore, quote, this office, meaning the fulton county d.a.'s office is the sole agency with jurisdiction that is not a potential witness to conduct related to this matter. as a result, our office has opened an investigation into any coordinated attempts to unlawfully alter the 2020 elections in this state. just on top of everything else, just a remarkable development today in the great state of georgia. joining us now is gwen keyes fleming. she's the former district

attorney in fulton county. she's known the district attorney for years. ms. keyes fleming, you have helped us understand so much about this case. i appreciate your making time to help us tonight now that this big step has happened. >> my pleasure. >> the last time you were here, we talked about the prospect that dmt a. willis might move to impanel a special grand jury. what is important to understand now that she's done it and the reasoning for doing it that she's laid out in this letter. >> well, i think it's a smart move and a strategic move. she has indicated previously that she would be methodically working through all of the evidence in this case and use all of the resources available to her to do just that. and a special grand jury is one of those tools and resources that allows her to subpoena witnesses. she notes in the letter that she has run into the challenge of

some witnesses not coming forth and talking to her office voluntarily. this signals to me that she did not prematurely ask for a special grand jury. she has done -- she and her team have done significant investigation up until this point and are only making this request at the point that she needs the help from the court. the special grand jury also, as she notes, will not be constrained by a two-month time limit that a regular criminal grand jury has, which also means that this dedicated group of fulton county residents will be able to focus on this one case and this one case only for as long as it takes to get to or complete the investigation. in my experience when i was d.a., we had special grand juries that were going as long as a year. it may not take that long, but it removes one of the obstacles of having to make a decision in a certain time frame, particularly when you're

investigating a case as complex as this one and you don't know where all the evidence is going to lead you. the early witnesses that are subpoenas may lead to more subpoenas, more questions, the need for more documents. and so this is the beginning for her of a very long investigation. >> how rare are special grand juries in georgia in terms -- i'm thinking about the chief county judge who received this request today and what i learned today about how this will be decided, which is that a majority of the judges in the county need to say yes in order for this request to be granted. how frequently is something like this pursued? >> not frequently. and, again, it's usually reserved for cases that are either -- they span crimes over a long period of time in some instances or they're very complex.

if you recall some of the earlier statements d.a. willis has made, she was looking at four different elements here. she was looking at the january 2nd call, she was looking at the january 4th resignation of the u.s. attorney, she was looking at an earlier november call between one of the senators and the secretary of state's office, and she was also looking at statements that were made to the georgia legislature. so she -- sh demonstrates the complexity and why a special grand jury would be warranted in this case. i think it's also important to point out with the judge's vote because she is seeking this grand jury in light of renosance with that, i think it's very unlikely judges will award that opposition by denying her request. if they say no, then all the

evidence she needs will never come to light. it's their duty to uphold the law. again, this grand jury is the best opportunity to fully vet all of the evidence that's available, and they can make recommendations taos what charges if any should be brought. >> is it notable that d.a. willis has requested that an individual county judge be appointed to oversee the grand jury and supervise their work, or is that just how these things are handled? >> that's how these things are handled. it helps her in the event there is any sort of dispute with a particular witness, particularly if that witness hires counsel and they want to contest this subpoena. it allows them to have one judge that would resolve all of those issues over the course of the impanelment of the special grand jury rather than it going to different judges on different days. >> gwen keyes fleming, former district attorney in dekalb

county, georgia. ms. keyes fleming, i feel like you're our magic decoder ring in explaining these things in cogent terms. you have helped me personally and all of our viewers understand that every step of the way. thank you for being here tonight. >> my pleasure. thanks for having me. >> all right. we've got much more ahead. stay with us. right we've got much more ahead. stay with us today's just nu.

i know it happened on one day but it feels like months of i can't wrap my head around this. the bizarre story of the fake forged elector documents that republicans created in multiple states, the story we've been covering for weeks now, that story blows wide open and we learn who was running the scheme inside the trump campaign. the president's daughter asked to testify to the january 6th investigation in a letter that reveals all sorts of new information about what they know including that the former president tried to personally

physically lead the mob to the capitol that day? that was his intention? that at least one far right wing told of the president's plan to drive a heart in the stake of the federal public if he got away with it, that the plot he tried to pull off was illegal. and now on top of all of that today here come the documents. here's some of what they are starting to get. daily presidential diadiaries, schedules, appointment information showing visitors to the white house, tifbt logs, switchboard shift changes all specifically for january 6th, 2021, drafts of speeches, remarks, and correspondence, three hand written notes concerning the events of january 6th, draft text of a presidential speech for the january 6th save america march,

a handwritten note from mark meadows' files, briefings and phone calls and other election issues am draft executive order on the topic of election integrity, a memorandum apparently originating outside the white house regarding a potential lawsuit by the united states against several states president biden won, a document containing presidential findings securing the election and ordering various actions. we've got all of these descriptions about material that was requested by the january 6th investigators that was being held up while trump claimed it was all privileged. well, his privilege claims have now fail and all that material from the national archives is on its way to the january 6th investigators. this follows last night's supreme court decision citing eight to one efforts to keep it

secret. we know that some of trump's records he had tried to keep secret are in the hands of investigators right now. today in the investigation's letter to ivanka trump they confirmed they're seeking outtakes, early drafts from former president trump's disastrous january 6th video message, which he delivered after the capitol riot had basically resolved, the one in which he told people, you know, who had been storming the capitol all day, we love you, you're very special. that was the video they decided to release. there were apparently earlier iterations of that video which were even worse than that. the committee is now seeking to obtain them. and given what's just happened legally and what the national archives has said they're sending over, it seems like they're going to get those things. joining us now is daniel goldman. he's a former district attorney in the southern district of new york and served as the

democratic majority counsel during trump's impeachment trial. thank you for joining us. there's a lot going on. was hoping you would get to talk with us tonight. >> it's really amazing. >> let me ask you about ivanka trump and what the january 6th committee told us about the letter and the investigation. there were a lot of revelations in that letter to me today in terms of stuff that i didn't know they knew, quotes from transcripts, descriptions of things we had never had described to us before. what stood out to you as the most significant thing about that? >> well, think some of what stands out to me really is the types of evidence that they have. the fact that keith kellogg, who i remember refused to testify in the first impeachment investigation that i was running, he came in and

testified, and he gave a sort of minute-by-minute -- clearly gave from the document, a minute-by-minute exposition of what happened that he saw on january 6th, including conversations that donald trump was having. we now know that kayleigh mcenany, who testified last week, the former press secretary, provided text messages to the committee. so we're starting to see that the committee is actually getting a lot of evidence, notwithstanding some of the on fuss skaggs and obstruction from the meadows and the bannons, et cetera, that they're still gathering and able to gather a lot of evidence, and it was interesting to me, rachel. it's an 11-page letter, and obviously the committee did not need to include all of this evidence for a request to ivanka trump. but i noted a couple of things that were really interesting legally. first, they're really narrowing

their request to january 6th, and in light of that supreme court decision you referenced yesterday, which relies on the court of appeals decision earlier where basically courts have said it doesn't matter whether donald trump was the former president or would be president now, but matters that occurred on january 6th are not subject to executive privilege. that's basically everything they ask ivanka trump for. and the other thing that jumps out to me, they're putting ivanka trump in a really difficult position by laying out all this evidence. now we know what evidence they have, and we know how relevant and important her testimony is. so if she is going to refuse to testify based on, you know, some fictional reason, she looks a lot worse because it's very clear that she's an important witness. so strategically i thought it was a very interesting and smart move by the committee. >> part of me watching this as

just a lay observer, somebody who's not a lawyer, part of me is sort of wanting the investigation to hold its cards closer to the vest so that when they finally sort of reveal to the -- reveal to the public their final report, which will be the end result of what they do, it's got a narrative that has enough new information in it that we're able to put it all together in a way that's going to seem like a new story, and it won't feel like an accumulation of things that we incrementally learn along the way, but as you say, there does seem to be some sort of strategic import in disclosing some of this stuff to witnesses who you're trying to get to come in to testify if for no other reason than to increase the pressure on them that they need to talk, given that other people are talking about them, but also to make clear if they decide to litigate this how key their testimony is to understanding what else the investigation has learned from other people. is that sort of a fair balance?

is that the right way to look at it, as far as you can tell? >> that's exactly right. i don't think the committee -- and we know that from letters that they released yesterday or the day before to rudy giuliani and others that were very short, they're not gratuitously revealing evidence, but they are doing it in situations where they may expect litigation or, you know, as congress is a public animal, it's a public beast, and a lot of the authority within congress comes from public pressure and messaging. and so by laying this out there to the public and to everyone else that is watching, it makes it more difficult for ivanka trump to refuse. this is something that we did, i thought, in the ukraine investigation, and it was important. we also on a much smaller scale kept the initial depositions closed or, you know, secret,

which is best practice for any investigation, but in this case, you know, they're trickling out a little bit, but, remember, there are 400 interviews, so we are going to get public hearings, and we are going to start to see some of the key evidence. i don't think that you're going to feel like you're oversaturated before the hearings or the report comes, but in any event, i think what they're starting to do is include this evidence when it is helpful to the committee, not just for giggles, you know, that we can get a little insight into it. and i think that that's an interesting move. and, frankly, what we're also seeing, rachel, they're starting to narrow down on the family, on the children. and i doubt they expect a lot of cooperation. so this is an opportunity for them to be able to lay out what evidence they have that is related to the trump family and

who knows, potentially trump or mike pence himself. >> daniel goldman, former assistant attorney in the northeastern district of new york. it's great to have you. >> thank you, rachel. >> we'll be right back. stay with us. ve you. >> thank you, rachel. >> we'll be right back stay with us

so it really has been a crazy day in the news particularly on court investigations and information relating to the former president. do you remember igor fruman? he's the man you see there on the right with former president donald trump? mr. fruman, you might remember, along with his partner, lev parnas, they were helpers when rudy giuliani was tapping weird intelligence connected sources in ukraine to try to come up with ways to smear candidate joe

biden. that led to trump impeachment number one. in 2019 mr. fruman was arrested. he was charged with illegally funneling a million dollars to a russian oligarch over the campaign. he pled guilty over the summer and now he's about to be sentenced. he's due to be sentenced tomorrow because there isn't enough going on on this front. prosecutors in his case are asking for a three- to four-year prison sentence. we're not aware of any cooperation deal between fruman and federal prosecutors who are investigating mr. giuliani's dealings in ukraine, but we may learn more tomorrow at the sentencing. watch this space. w at the sentencing watch this space all right.

that is going to do it for us tonight. we're hoping for a slower news day tomorrow because today was craaa-zy. i'll see you tomorrow. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is up next. i only need 11,000 vote. fellows, i need 11,000 votes. give me a break. look, all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. >> there's nothing wrong with saying that, you know that you've recalculated. >> donald trump and that infamous phone call asking for enough votes to overturn that state. the question is will that tape