good afternoon. i'm joe fryer in for yasmin vossoughian today. we have got a lot to cover for you right now. a major new revelation from the chairman of the january 6th committee. representative bennie thompson says they have talked to former attorney general bill barr. we're going to have the latest on that. the putin plot. an explosive new report reveals the russian leader's alleged plan to take over the ukrainian government with a political

puppet of his own choosing. revelation ramping up tensions in a region on the brink of war. in washington, d.c., what's described as a who's who of the anti-vax movement hitting the streets to spread misinformation. we're live on the scene. plus, the biden administration taking stock after some tough new nbc poll numbers out today. they suggest what's gone wrong for the president but also offer a possible road map for a comeback. >> good to have you with us. we begin with breaking news in the january 6th investigation. committee chairman bennie thompson confirms the panel has been having conversations with former attorney general bill barr. that development on the heels of the committee getting its hands on a trove of trump white house documents that the former president had been fighting to block for months. joining me now, nbc's julie tsirkin on capitol hill, and barbara mcquade, msnbc legal

analyst and former u.s. attorney general in michigan. julie, bring us up to speed on what else the chairman had to say today. >> that's right, joe. chairman bennie thompson making some news during that interview with cbs, saying the panel already spoke to bill barr. you'll recall the former attorney general actually resigned in december of 2020 after rebuking former president trump's false claims about election fraud in 2020, the same month of that unsigned executive order that was dated december 16th, 2020, that would have instructed the military to seize voting machines. i want to play for you, though, a part of bennie thompson's interview from this morning. watch. >> do you intend to go to the attorney general, bill barr, to ask him about this? i mean, how do you follow up on this kind of allegation and the paperwork to back it up? >> well, yes, we do. to be honest with you, we have had conversations with the former attorney general already. we have talked to department of

defense individuals. we are concerned that our military was part of this big lie on promoting that the election was false. >> now, this executive order, the draft, would have put in motion that operation for the defense secretary to seize -- to instruct the military to seize those voting machines. i should point out that the january 6th committee already spoke to christopher miller, who was then defense secretary on january 6th and in the months prior. they already interviewed him earlier this month. nbc news has learned that. now, also, bennie thompson shedding more light on ivanka trump, the latest invitation that went out for an interview before the panel. they want her to reply by february 3rd. again, that's not a subpoena, it's a voluntary invitation to see what she knows as special adviser to the former president and not just his daughter,

potentially in those oval office meetings on january 6th in which he tried to pressure former vice president pence to overturn the election. joe. >> a lot haffening there. barbara, i want to bring you in and focus on this potential cooperation from bill barr. how significant is this? >> well, william barr was in a position to have an awful lot of important information. it's always been a little bit of a mystery as to why he left his position in mid-december of 2020. most often, you'll see an attorney general stay around until after the inauguration, and at that point, you'll see the deputy continue to serve in an acting capacity. for him to leave one month short of the expected term was very unusual. we know that they had some differences of opinion after william barr publicly stated there was no widespread fraud in the 2020 presidential election. it seems to me he's likely in the center of many of conversations about the executive order, about the efforts at the justice

department to say there was fraud and let me do the rest. i can see why chairman thompson is interested in seeing what barr has to say. >> as a prosecutor, what information would you want from him? do you believe this canesation really is solely focused on this draft executive order? >> no, i think, joe, what i would be looking for was to figure out, was there a conspiracy? were these guys sort of spitballing and exploring what they thought were legal theories or working before, during, and after january 6th to try to maintain power even though they knew it was fraudulent? we now know that none of these claims of fraud had any evidence whatsoever. so what was going on there? was this, the charge i would be looking at was conspiracy to defraud the united states, and that is an agreement by two or more people to obstruct the lawful execution of the laws of the united states. and so if that's what's going on here, i think william barr can provide a piece of information that could be helpful to the

committee in determining whether laws need to fill those gaps, but as a prosecutor, whether laws were broken. >> julie tsirkin, thank you. barba, we're going to ask you to skik around. we'll see you later in this hour. >> coming up next hour at 4:00 p.m., one of the january 6th committee members, democratic congresswoman zo lofgren will join me to talk the latest in the investigation from how much intel they have uncovered to the possibility of calling on their own colleagues to testify. you're not going to want to miss that. now to new information showing just how far along russian president vladimir putin may be in his plans to invade ukraine. britain released an intelligence communique allegedly showing the kremlin has already decided who should take over as the new leader of ukraine. this man, he is a former member of the ukrainian parliament, the owner of a media company, and a vocal supporter of russia. russia is denying the report.

this morning, on "meet the press," chuck todd asked secretary of state antony blinken why intelligence that would usually be considered classified is being released to the public. >> is this sending a message to our other european allies that this is real and this is serious? >> chuck, it's mostly making clear, first of all, to the russians that we know all of the tactics and techniques they can bring to bear. they're amassing a huge number of forces on ukraine's boards. people are rightly focused on that, but there are a whole series of other actions they have taken in the past and are preparing to take potentially in ukraine. it's important they be put on notice. >> michael schwartz is an investigative reporter covering russia for "the new york times." he joins us from kiev. what more details can you give us about this alleged putin plot and how britain got ahold of the information. >> >> there's not a lot of details to report. britain released a pretty threadbare communique laying out what it said was a plot to

replace the democratically elected government of kiev with a kind of puppet regime headed by a poorly known ukrainian official from the country's eastern region. they didn't release a whole lot of information about where the information came from. they didn't release many details about whether or not this plot necessarily would involve an invasion by russian troops amassed on ukraine's border that the united states has been warning about for some time. and so what i would just echo was the secretary of state said, this is a highly unusual release of intelligence information that was clearly meant to send a message to the russians that western countries are aware of its planning but beyond that, there's very little we can say. >> yeah y did want to ask you more about the fact this is

pretty extraordinary to release this information. i know you spoke to some british officials about why it was done. what did they tell you? >> they said very, very little. they said this communique was worded very, very specifically and it was meant to send a message to the russian government. we understand that this is one of a number of plots that the russians might be considering in ukraine should their plans come to fruition. again, it's important to point out that western intelligence officials in the united states government has assessed putin has not made any concrete decisions about whether or not to utilize the forces that he's amassed on ukraine's borders. what this appears to have din was an effort to -- a last ditch effort, one of the last ditch efforts to dissuade the kremlin from following through with whatever it is it might be

planning. >> so at this point, what should we be looking for, what are the possible signs any type of invasion is about to happen? >> right now, there diplomacy is still ongoing. the members of what is called the normandy format are scheduled to meet next week to continue negotiations over the state of play in ukraine. one thing that's important to note is that the build-up of forces all around ukraine's borders continues. one of the things that we're watching very, very carefully is a buildup of forces in belarus north of ukraine, where russia has said that it's planning to carry out massive military exercises. the united states says that this is just a pretext to move russian forces into the north from ukraine and open up perhaps another vector of invasion that's closer to the capital of

kiev. >> michael schwartz, in kiev, thank you for joining us. we appreciate it. thank you for talking more about your reporting. >> ukraine is one of the many issues president biden is dealing with today. a new poll from nbc news finds an overwhelming majority of americans believe the nation cannot come together. that number is now at 70%. pollsters say that could spell big trouble for democrats come midterms. joining me now to discuss further is nbc's josh lederman. so josh, that number used to be at 45% just ten years ago. now, clearly, this is a bipartisan problem, but democrats are in power now. what could this dark outlook among voters, this 70% number, mean for democrats as the midterms approach? >> well, you're right, joe, to suggest that when people are pessimistic, they tend to take it out on the incumbents. on the people who are in power at the moment. and use their choice at the ballot box to voice their

disapproval regardless of whether those folks are precisely responsible for the things they're upset about in the first place. the other number that jumped out to me from our new nbc news poll was the number that reflects what percentage of americans are currently feel the country is going in the wrong direction. that number now at 72%. so that is not good news for democrats heading into those midterm elections. and we know that democrats are really looking at these numbers that show generic ballot numbers. if you're going to choose between a democrat and a republican, you know, which one are you more likely to choose. they have seen those numbers really erode for them since former president trump left office and president biden took office. so these are all things that are kind of in the atmosphere as democrats try to make their case heading into the midterms. and that's the reason you see democrats so focused on trying to demonstrate now what they

feel they have accomplished, hoping to notch some victories that they hope voters will reward them for come november. >> despite the pessimism, these next numbers are interesting. registered voters fall basically where they did last october. 47% prefer a democratic controlled congress versus 46% republican controlled. but here's the difference. in terms of voter enthusiasm, republicans now have a double digit lead. 61% responded they're very interested in the midterms versus 47% for democrats. the midterms viewer than 300 days away. how worried are democratic leaders about that enthusiasm gap? is it something they feel can be turned around by november? >> yeah, this is kind of an age-old problem for democrats, that when voter enthusiasm is low, democrats tend to do worse. and in particular, in midterm elections where enthusiasm, excitement about voting tends to be lower than it is in presidential years.

turnout also tends to be lower. but there tends to be a core group of republican base voters who come out no matter what election it is. they show up, and they vote. so in these circumstances where you're really seeing from the split you showed, 47%, 46%, people are really pessimistic, that could spell trouble for democrats in terms of actually getting their voters out to the polls. i have to say, democrats, you asked whether they feel they can turn this around. they certainly are not closing the possibility, but there is not a lot of optimism right now. partially because they're looking at the historical trends, which show that in the first midterm years after a new president comes in, they tend to lose a whole score of seats in the house. that would certainly, if that happens, mean the house would become under republican control, joe. >> and redistricting another challenge on top of all that. nbc's josh lederman, thank you for helping us break down these numbers. still ahead, anti-vaxers and

a kennedy. >> you did not get the covid vaccine? >> certainly not. >> why not? >> because i put my faith in god, not in some pharmaceutical company that doesn't care anything about me. >> protesters led by robert kennedy jr. taking to the nation's capitol today to protest vaccine mandates. brandy is there and joins us with a who's who of anti-vax activists. plus, the biggest legal challenges to trump in the districts of georgia and new york and the january 6th committee. stay with us.

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it inflates in 30 seconds. aerotrainer is tested to support over 500 pounds. lose weight, look great, and be healthy. go to aerotrainer.com. that's a-e-r-o trainer.com. let's turn now to the nation's capitol where anti-vene activists have assembled for a march and rally they call defeat the mandates in american homecoming. the rally largely organized on facebook and other extremist forums raised some $200,000 ahead of the event. we're waiting on estimates for how many turned out for today's rally, but organizers indicated tens of thousands of people would attend. nbc's senior reporter, brandy zadrozny wrote about all this march along with nbc's ben collins, taking a look at the who's who of anti-vax activists. she joins me from the rally

which is still under way. what have you seen and heard today, and what have these prominent speakers like robert f. kennedy jr. headlining last hour, others including a doctor who pushes anti-vax talking points and debunkt research, what are you hearing? >> yeah, we're at the tail end of the rally right now. and you know, you hear a lot about this is an anti-mandate rally. that's what a lot of people told us coming in. a lot of the people who are here parroted that language, but all of the speakers we have seen today have been -- it's been a misinformation fest. we have seen misinformation about the so-called dangers of vaccines. inflated ideas about death and harm. it's just been misinformation after misinformation. and for good reason. that $200,000 you mentioned is actually up to $250,000 as of now. because this was put on by a bunch of discredited doctors who are selling alternative treatments. and so that's what we have seen a lot of here.

people parroting that fear and looking for those alternative treatments. and also, yes, you do have the mandates. >> so in your reporting, you quote a professor who said most if not all of the speakers oppose vaccines. and that labeling this march as anti-mandate is actually a way to drum up wider support. even evade social network bans. tell us more about that. is that what you're seeing on the ground today? >> sure. yeah, you can't really say anti-vax anymore. that's like kryptonite for social media. so these networks have evolved just like they did ten years ago, the anti-vaccination movement. now we're hearing a lot of anti-mandate. we're seeing a lot of health freedom, things like that, instead of anti-vax. i have to tell you, the message here is very anti-vaccination. you know, we just had robert kennedy jr. stand up and give a speech where he talked about

just a bunch of lies really about the dangers of vaccines and not just the covid-19 vaccines but all childhood vaccination. and that seems to be the common thread, is really to just make people distrust the government, mistrust the cdc, mistrust vaccines. it's just a hodgepodge really of mistrust of institutions, and right now, it's pointed at the vaccine. >> we know officials are monitoring the event. you and ben collins cited a report from a nonprofit, advance democracy, which says several users on the extremist site patriots.win, which hosted in depth plans to attack the capitol in the days before the january 6th riot, they plan to attend. what else are you learning about these ties to other extremist movements? >> well, i can tell you that this has been a very interesting day. i have been to a lot of anti-vaccine rallies in my life and as a reporter. it's very much like that.

to say it is a peaceful movement, we have dell bigtree about to go on, he's sort of the rock star of the movement, so it's going to get loud, but the point is i don't see a lot of extremists, we're not seeing neonazis, notmany prod boys although we have seen a couple, but this is a very extreme message. we may not see harm in the streets like we saw on january 6th, but health experts say this causes harm just the same. >> misinformation is dangerous in so many ways. brandy zadrozny, we appreciate you and your reporting. thank you so much. >> in the wakes of the supreme court tossing out national vaccine requirements from the biden administration, mandates are now left to states, localities, and private businesses. just 19 states across the country right now require state employees to be vaccinated or undergo regular testing while ten states ban testing for

employees. san jose is set to become the biggest city in california to require a vaccine and booster for their 7,000 or so employees. so scott, what more can you tell us about these actions, and how the scotus ruling is impacting private businesses right now? >> yeah, joe, however you feel about president biden's proposed covid vaccination mandate for large employers, it was at least uniform. it would have been predictable. now, it's anything but. so for example, starbucks this past week said that it was going to do away with its vaccination requirement for employees, but they would follow local rules and local mandates. well, here's how complicated that is. san jose is an example. as you said, the city is now going to require its city workers and also people going to city owned venues to have not only the vaccination but also the booster. you get outside of the city limits in santa clara county, that is not the case. to go into a restaurant here in

san jose, you don't have to show proof of vaccination, but you do in san francisco or down in los angeles. and so public health officials who have been trying to figure out how this all fits in are now sort of resigning themselves to a national patchwork of mandates. >> i think mandates, mandates are the way that we have managed to get 99% of the population vaccinated against measles. if you leave it up to individual choice, we might as well have 33 million states within california. each one making its own laws and choices. so i think mandates are a way to standardize it. i think that's the way it's going to happen, and the laws demanding things are going to have to be state laws. >> here in california, there's a working group in the state legislature now to come up with some sort of framework for vaccination mandate potentially in the state. that is certainly controversial,

but again, it varies so much state to state. as you said at the outset, there are a number of states that are actually banning mandates, so for those who looked to vaccinations as the big tool to stop this pandemic, we may have found the limits of that when it comes to making them required. joe. >> nbc's scott cohn in san jose, thank you so much. could the simplest idea be the most effective in ending poverty? half a century after martin luther king jr. floated the idea of guaranteed income, black women in his birth place of atlanta will soon be receiving monthly cash payments. we have more on that next. paym. we have more on th natext.

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do what was once considered unthinkable, bring dr. king's concept into the mainstream, guided by the principles he popularized half a century ago. the georgia resilience and opportunity fund will now offer 650 eliable black women across the state $850 a month over two years for a total of more than $20,000 each. it is the latest effort to fight generations of wealth inequality among black americans and perhaps the boldest, designed in large part by the very communities it is meant to serve. joining me now to discuss this is hope olen sack, executive director of the georgia resilience and opportunity fund and co-director of the in her hands guaranteed initiative fund. glad to have you with us. first of all, just walk us through the details. how did you decide who is eligible? how much money you're giving out, and how long this program is going to last? >> terrific. thank you so much for having me.

we're so excited that this is going to be one of the largest guaranteed income programs in the country, and certainly the largest program in the south. it's going to serve over 650 women in georgia started in the old fourth ward, king's neighborhood, where he was born, where he pastored, and where he is coretta are buried today, and it's going to expand to areas of southwest georgia, a rural area of georgia, and the atlanta suburbs because we know these issues, although they're pervasive across our state and our country. so this program, we're very excited, it's going to provide $850 a month on average for 24 months. again, to about 650 women across georgia. and we'll be looking at how this program could potentially impact state or federal policy. >> are there any rules or limits on how the money can be spent? >> no. it is no strings attached and

unconditional. so what we really heard from talking and working with community members over the past couple years is that many community members know what they need to do, and they know the choices that they need to make, but they lack oftentimes the actual resources to do it. current supports they may receive come with conditionality, may be hard to access, so what communities members, particularly women in the old fourth ward told us, is that they really needed the support and agency and the flexibility of cash to reach their dreams and achieve their goals. we heard that they wanted to start businesses, go back to school, have a more reliable car, be able to access higher paying jobs, spend more time with their kids. all of these were important ambitions they had and that cash would be a powerful tool to help get them there. >> here's something interesting about the program. it splits the women into two focus groups. every participant is going to get around $20,000 total over two years. one group is going to get $850 a month. the other is going to get $4300

up front followed by $700 monthly payments. so why do this? what do you hope to learn by dividing the groups this way? >> that's exactly correct. and this is something that came from listening to community members themselves and those who are most impacted by the problems themselves. what we heard from folks is that they really needed some up front cash to jump start their life. again, invest -- start that small business, maybe be able to take time off work to look for a better paying job, maybe to afford a more reliable used car or get an apartment to access opportunities for themselves and their children. really, this feature came from community members themselves, and we're really excited, it's the first program in the country to have this up-front payment, which we hope will have some indications for maybe policy learning. maybe this has some amplification effect on the guaranteed income, so we're hoping to learn what impact that

can have by receiving some of the funds up front. >> hope, this is a great program. we're definitely going to want to keep tabs on it to see how it goes over the next years. thank you for taking some time to join us and talk about it today. we appreciate it. >> all right, coming up, the investigations involving donald trump are piling up. a local georgia prosecutor is moving forward with her probe of the former president, so at what point could trump be forced to testify under oath? >> the truth! shall set you free. (vo) this year, t-mobile for business is here to help you hit the ground running.

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says some key witnesses won't testify unless they're forced by a subpoena. business insider has bib following the story and potential criminal charges that could come from a grand jury investigation. mila covers the justice department for business insider. good to have you with us. so, in a request for this grand jury, fanny willis says she's found reasonable probability that georgia's 2020 elections were subject to possible criminal disruptions. do we know what she's found and what she might be looking for now with help from a grand jury? >> well, we know that the center of her investigation revolves around a january 2nd, 2021 phone call trump had with georgia secretary of state, and in that call, it's where he allegedly pressured the election official to find more votes to overturn the election result in that state. now, so that is the center of the investigation, but what's really notable is that with her power to have a special jury is

that it will give her the agency to issue out subpoenas, to obtain documents that she couldn't get before, and compel witnesses to testify. and those are two crucial components that will really ramp up the investigation and get her closer to making a decision on whether to formally charge the former president, donald trump. >> so the seating of a grand jury is not a done deal just because she asked for it. at this point, does it seem likely she'll get her request granted? who has to approve it? >> that's a great question. we know that just because she requested it doesn't mean it's going to be granted. it has to be approved wi the majority of the holding counties speemier court judges. that is still to be determined, but it does signify in a few months this could ramp up, if she is granted this ability to have a special grand jury. then this jury will be focused on this investigation alone so

they won't have to deal with other investigations that they can solely focus on this, and it will really make it quicker for her to make a decision on whether to formally go forward with pressing charges. it's really interesting to note that there are several active investigations into the former president, but legal experts and sources i talk to say that out of all of them, this one is the strongest in atlanta, just given the amount of evidence that she has. and she's expressed in the past few months a frustration, the lack of cooperation among election officials that are not willing to testify. so if she is -- has the ability to have this special grand jury, and has the ability to start issuing out subpoenas. then it will really ramp up this investigation. so this is a really big turning point for the investigation since she announced it back in february that she was going to start investigating former president donald trump. >> camilla, thanks so much for joining us with your reporting. back with us as we promised at

the top of the hour, is nbc news legal analyst barbara mcquade to help answer more questions about the investigation in georgia and other trump legal problems. let's start in georgia. how much of a legal threat is this georgia investigation to the former president? >> well, i think it's very threatening, joe, just because we have all heard that recording of donald trump in his own words pressuring the secretary of state to find him 11,000 votes. but of course, as we just heard, that's not the whole case. we know what he did. what we really need to know is what was his intent and knowledge at the time. did he genuinely believe that he had won that state and had been cheated out of those votes? and needed just an accurate count to win the state, or was he instead bullying the secretary of state into defrauding the voters of that state and declaring the election for him when in fact he knew that joe biden won it? so that's what she needs to dig through. that's why she needs to talk to people. we have reporting that mark meadows went down and spoke to

other members of brad raffensperger's office, so hearing from him as well as some members of his staff could be critically important. and they have said they don't want to, you know, provide her with information but will if compelled to do so by a grand jury. sometimes witnesses are reluctant or fearful when you have donald trump on the other end, who is liable to do who knows what. i could see why they want the security of a subpoena to say i have no chose, i was compelled to tell the truth. i think a grand jury would be extremely valuable in this situation to give her the evidence she needs and to determine whether there was or wasn't a crime committed here. >> let's go to another state in new york. the d.a., letitia james, says she has significant evidence that the trump organization lied about its finances. she's now investigating several members of the trump organization, including ivanka trump and don jr. can you explain what she is looking into right now? >> yes.

so she has been working on a civil investigation into fraud against the trump organization. trump himself had filed a motion to suppress subpoena for his own deposition and he has filed a lawsuit to halt the investigation in its entirety. so she -- he has sort of invited this response from letitia james. last week, she filed a 115-page detailed filing that talked about what she has amassed to date. she listed six trump properties where the value was significantly inflated. one property went from $200 million in 2013 to $400 million, double in 2014. his apartment in manhattan went from 10,000 square feet to 30,000 square feet, so it appears there may be some misrepresentations there designed to inflate assets for the purposes of obtaining loans, insurance coverage, and tax deductions. if that's the case, she has the authority to file civil action to discourage the ill gotten

gain and get damages, even to cancel the certificate for the trump organization. that could be used in the criminal case being investigated by the new manhattan d.a. for some of the same issues. >> so much to talk about, we needed to chat with you twice this hour. thank you so much. and in the next hour, i'm going to be speaking with one of the members of the january 6th committee, zoe lofgren, to get evidence on what evidence she's seen from the national archives so far, and if trump could be called to testify. ats at 4:00 p.m. >> still ahead this hour, true crime in the spotlight. we are highlighting one of the fastest growing types of family homicide in the u.s., parricide. our next guest weighing in on how the killing of parents is keeping them up at night. >> i'm elisa menendez. ahead on "american voices," the

anti-vaccine movement descends on d.c., plus new reporting on who helps fund ghost candidates on florida airwaves. and meet a candidate vying to become arizona's first latino secretary of state. that and more at 6:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. probiotic to naturally help soothe digestive upsets 24/7. try align, the pros in digestive health. and join the align healthy gut team up and learn what millions of align users already know. how great a healthy gut can feel. sign up at alignprobiotics.com also try align dualbiotics gummies to help support digestive health. [copy machine printing] ♪

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we're taking a break from politics in this week's edition of in the spotlight, and diving into the world of true crime. each week, my next guests take on a case you may or may not have heard about, giving listeners their takes on everything from lesser known serial killers to mysterious museum heists. and one of their latest episodes, they walk us through the tragic and gruesome death of recently divorced mob vicky robinson at the hands of her own daughter. >> as these teens are sitting around the table, they're feeling kind of bored and they're wondering what to do next. that's when vulessa is struck with this idea. they could kill her mom.

john thought that she was joking, of course, but then adam and vulessa start talking about actual ways to murder vicky, and things quickly snowballed from there. after several tries, adam did pierce vicky's neck with a needle, and he injected the syringe into her. adam and vulessa then held vicky down while they waited for the injection to work, but it never did. vicky was still very much alive and still fighting back. >> adam stabbed vicky two more times and tried to break her neck. hours later, the murderous teens used bleach and towels to clean up the kitchen and adam put vicky's body in a trash can he found in vicky's garage. >> joining me new are co-hosts of the moms and murder podcast, melissa richie and mandy espy. thank you for joining us. we appreciate it. melissa, you said these are the stories that keep you up at night, when parents are kill bide their own children. what was it that most struck you about this vicky robinson case? >> this is a story where the mom

is really doing everything she possibly can. these kids are just, you know, 14 years old, 11 years old. their lives have changed after their parents have divorced. and she's trying her best, but there's outside influences and, you know, you just don't know what's going to happen. one kid does one thing and another goes in another direction. and as a parent, that's like your big fear. how do i keep my kids safe? you don't even want to think what do i do if my kid wants to come after me? that's not a thought you really have until you hear these stories and know it does happen. >> mandy, on the podcast, you discuss how parenticide, where kids kill their parents, is one of the fastest growing types of family homicide in the u.s. it's a rare occurrence, gut just how scary is the fact that something like this is getting worse and getting worse quickly? >> oh, yeah, it's definitely scary. i think it opens the door for questions to be asked about why is this happening, what is going

on in young people's lives that is causing this to be on the rise. so i do think it's very scary, but as you said, it isn't -- it's not really an everyday occurrence, so i try to keep that in the forefront of my mind. it's not really likely to happen, but it is scary to think about that it happens at all. >> yes, refreshing to know it is not a super regular occurrence. it's not just murder. we need a little levity here. melissa, in this week's episode, you broke down the gardner museum heist back in 1990. let's play some of that. >> the thieves were inside the museum for 81 minutes, and they stole 13 pieces of art worth hundreds of millions of dollars. >> it appears, though, the thieves really didn't know what they were doing and they had no real plan for which pieces to steal. for example, they left the most valuable painting in the museum alone and took lesser items that were really close by it. >> to this day, none of the pieces of art that were stolen have been recovered. although, authorities have been

able to track some of the art's movement at different times, but they have still never been able to actually locate it. >> one of my favorite museums, by the way. so melissa, tell us, how do your listeners react to these less gruesome sort of palate cleanser episodes you do? >> you know, it goes all over the spectrum. some people really just love to hear murder stories, and some people like us appreciate these kind of stories where it just kind of is a palate cleanser and you have something else. it's a great story. it's super interesting, but nobody dies. that's the way we always say, you know, hey, we're listening to a story this week, nobody dies. it's exciting for us. we enjoy that too. >> we all do. and mandy, tell me, how did both of you connect over your mutual fascination with these true crime stories? >> i think melissa and i both kind of had started our love for true crime in general, watching things like dateline, forensic

files, all of those things on tv, from a younger age. and as we kind of became friends and we were adults then, we realized that we shared that similar interest, that we both were interested in the topic of true crime. and so she came to me one day and said hey, i know this might sound crazy to you, but would you consider trying to start a podcast with me where we can share some of these stories. i just said okay, and here we are today, still doing the podcast. >> so little different from it plot of only murders in the building on hulu, which is a fantastic show, by the way. melissa, what are the stories over time that have stuck with you the most? >> the stories i'm always drawn to are the stories with forgiveness and some sort of redemption. and one that really sticks out to me is the story of michael morton. back in the '80s, he was convicted of murdering his wife and sentenced to life in prison. and he, after 25 years, dna finally exonerates him, and he's

able to reunite with his family. he's found faith while in prison, and now he works to help innocent people who are in prison. he works with the innocence project. i love stories like that. i wish, you know, there was more. we try to tell as many as we can because, you know, we love to see that. we want that. we want the exoneration. we want those things. so i think it's important for us to share them, and those are the ones i'm really drawn to. >> forgiveness and redemption. a good note to close on. melissa and mandy, thank you both. appreciate your time with us. you can tune in to moms and murder wherever you get your podcast. new episodes drop every tuesday. >> coming up in our next hour, new revelations coming out of the january 6th committee today. up next, i'm going to talk to committee member congresswoman zoe lofgren. you are surrounded by people

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welcome back. i'm joe fryer in for yasmin vossoughian. a major revelation today from january 6th committee chairman bennie thompson. >> do you intend to go to the attorney general, bill barr, to ask him about this? how do you follow up on this kind of allegation and the paperwork to back it up? >> well, yes, we do. to be honest with you, w